Sharon Stone, Gwyneth Paltrow, Drew Barrymore, and MORE Say What They Learned From Divorce

0:17 Hey, I do part two. It's bachelor nation alum, Courtney Robertson and Susan Knowles jumping in to take over the pod. There's always something new about divorce and chapter two being talked about on social media. So today we thought we'd listen and react to some of the latest things people are talking about. In the world of Chapter 2, Susan is one of my favorite people. What could go right here?

0:45 I mean, two unfiltered women. Susan, welcome to the main stage. Show me your boobies.

0:51 Thank you, baby. I think we already did that when we came on, right?

0:57 I think they call it baddies. I don't know.

1:00 Is that what we are now? I'm good. I'm a goodie.

1:03 You're an oldie but a goodie. I'm an oldie but a goodie.

1:08 You know what?

1:08 I'm so happy to see your face right now. Thank you. We're just going to dive in.

1:14 Let's do it.

1:15 We're going to swan dive in.

1:16 My reactions are my reactions. It comes from the heart. It just comes out, right?

1:21 Yes.

1:21 I saw you in Tahoe.

1:22 Let's do this. First, we're going to talk about Sharon Stone. This is the advice Sharon Stone recently gave to anyone who's going through a divorce.

1:39 This old thing. But you know what, Sharon Stone, can we just take a minute for the scene that she did? Sharon Stone. I've met Sharon Stone in L.A. But remember the scene with the legs?

1:50 She's so hot, though. I mean, come on, no matter what she does.

1:54 She's like in the Jane Fonda.

1:56 I don't see a lot of fault with her.

1:59 Let's hit this clip. Let's blast it. Let's do it.

2:03 It's going to be fantastic to be single. I've been doing it for a long time. Eat what you want, go to sleep what you want, say what you want, wear what you want, do whatever you want. And you don't have to listen to a lot of, you know, stuff. At the same time, you don't have the joy of partnership.

2:22 I understand that.

2:24 But you do have the joy of unbelievable friendships and the love of your family.

2:30 And the best is yet to come. I am all about those statements because it's so true.

2:37 So she was a little slow. Like I look at how people communicate right now, especially she was very careful with her words.

2:45 Yes, she was. It was well thought.

2:49 I've been living through this right now. Like I had the whole day to myself yesterday. So what came to me was like, I don't have to wait for somebody to watch a show with.

2:59 Yeah.

2:59 Yeah. I don't have to share the remote.

3:02 Friendships. She mentioned friendships, right? That's what you need right now. And that is the most important thing is having friendships. Sometimes it is our spouse and other times it's not. You need girlfriends. You need friendships.

3:16 Can we get a life update on you real quick?

3:19 I am doing my friendships.

3:21 Okay.

3:22 Got it.

3:22 Copy. Roger that.

3:25 Okay. So, Sharon, go for it. The only thing is you don't, you know, have sex when you go to bed at night. Well, we have.

3:33 I absolutely do. It's 2026.

3:35 Lots of toys.

3:37 You told me something in Tahoe that I couldn't remember. I didn't want to drop into your day and text you about it, but... I said you.

3:43 Needed to womanize her.

3:46 Okay, well, this is not an ad, but I... I have a crush, so I'm just going to put that right here.

3:53 Oh, I like this.

3:55 I stopped wearing my ring. Good job. I actually was on the phone with Cindy Kohler's last night, and she's like, Courtney, I don't think you're ready. I didn't know if he liked me back.

4:05 Okay. There's only one way to find out.

4:08 He said, do you need help with stimulation? And I was like, I think he likes me.

4:12 I think so, too.

4:14 Okay.

4:16 I think he wants to help stimulate you. There's nothing wrong with that. Moving right along. Yes. Go for it.

4:28 I was just going to say, when we were in Tahoe, you told me about that. So maybe text me in a group.

4:32 Chat or something. I certainly will send you a link. Okay.

4:38 But I told you in Tahoe, I said, I think you might be a little de-whipped.

4:42 Never know. One day at a time, moving right along.

4:47 So Valerie Bertinelli recently opened up with this experience she had after divorce. So let's blast that clip.

4:54 I was never told, you can't go see your son's concert. But when I would go, my phone would blow up. I would get texts. The night would be miserable because they would make it miserable. I was never told, you can't hang a picture of you and your son and your ex-husband in your house on your family wall because it makes me uncomfortable. No, they just made me miserable until I took.

5:13 That picture down. It's back up. Who are the they?

5:15 I can't talk about the they.

5:16 I understand.

5:16 And I think if you don't know who the they is, I.

5:21 Think it's better that that way you can look inward and see who's doing this to me.

5:26 Right.

5:26 Even though you don't have to have a they, but you know this experience has happened.

5:29 Yes.

5:29 Right.

5:30 I mean, I.

5:32 Was never told you can't love your ex-husband, but I was berated and made miserable until I said, okay, fine, I don't love him.

5:42 It's abuse.

5:43 It's the new one in her life that can't handle her past life. And that means it's going to be a no-go.

5:51 It's a hard stop, full stop.

5:53 It is. I mean, people have past lives. Am I right? We have children, grandchildren, and hopefully whoever I meet, I'm going to welcome his and he'll welcome mine. Sounds here like they made her life miserable.

6:05 Well, I'm kind of living through that. I already took the pictures out. When I go through a breakup, everything's in a box. I did a police standby this week to get my stuff, my dad's ring, all this stuff. But what I just heard there was also somebody choosing her words carefully, and it sounds like abuse to me.

6:22 And they, they, they, they. Who are they?

6:24 Well, she didn't want to share that, but they're obviously somebody new in their life and her relationship, and they're not handling it very well.

6:33 That or the family.

6:34 Could be. Could be.

6:36 Well, I think. you know, to kind of expand on this, the beautiful thing about getting older and wiser and smarter, and like you have your boundaries, right?

6:46 Yes.

6:47 I have three little kids. Like that's a, you know, that's a hard stop on anybody who has a problem with that. Or if I, I have friends that are grandfathered in, and if anybody tries to kind of get in the way of that, it's a no-go.

7:04 Yeah, yeah. I know people that they go and they're starting to date and getting into a relationship and you get to the gentleman's house and the pictures of the wife are still up and they have a problem with this, especially when it's in the bedroom and you are in the bedroom. Who wants to lay in bed and have sex with somebody, look staring at their ex-wife? Sometimes it's a deceased person, but even still, you don't want that person looking at you. It's just uncomfortable.

7:33 Well, I've dealt with that. My dad's remarried to his college sweetheart. He was married to my mom for 40 years and she's gone. And I said, I want anything of hers. And the new wife, I don't want to overshare or step here, has a hard time seeing my mom's stuff. So he's hidden her perfume, those kinds of things.

7:54 As he should, because he moved on to a new chapter. Therefore, you don't forget your wife or your mother in this case.

8:02 But she's not here.

8:03 I know, but she doesn't have to be present in his house when she's there. That's like you said, you put things in a box.

8:12 Yep.

8:12 You'll never forget them, but they're there and you're open for some new, a new chapter, if you will.

8:19 Yeah, and that makes sense. That does make sense. I don't have, I have a fresh start. I just moved when I was in Tahoe with you guys. I was like securing my lease and trying to have fun. And it might've been a little bit too soon for me, but yeah, I have a new house.

8:35 And there's- It's great.

8:39 There's no evidence of anybody. Like I said, I have a crush. So, but that is something to be mindful of because I didn't even think about that.

8:49 Also your crush say it becomes something you don't want to throw in his face he's going to have to accept the fact that you have children and you're going to be dealing with your children's father yes he's got.

9:02 Three he's got he's moved furniture for me he gave me stuff like he's already we've already intermingled kids he's got three kids two we're in the same phase of life oh that's perfect that helps he spent a million dollars in divorce and guess what the I mean, guess what? His ex-wife's attorney is my attorney.

9:23 Wow. Okay, then. With that being said, nothing ever in that situation is going to be easy. People need to be aware when you bring someone new into your life to not try the last chapter. They could be aware of the last chapter, but they don't need to be daily reminded.

9:43 I tell them about the X-Files. I call it the X-Files, right? When you go on a first date, right? Like keep it like, don't go and don't swan dive into the X-Files. Like you want to know that that translates at Lance, you know, like if you were on a first date with me, right? now, I would just give me the cliff notes.

10:04 Exactly, exactly.

10:05 And let's have fun.

10:06 Nobody used to love me, darling. I never meet a stranger. I am happy, I am kind, and I'm full of life. I want some adventure. I want somebody happy. but I could tell my secrets too.

10:19 Yeah.

10:19 And I have a past as I'm sure you do. So let's start from here. Yeah.

10:25 And I'm going to move forward. Yeah.

10:26 Yeah.

10:26 Do you want to, do you want to dance? She's got a thing with these boobs today. Well, I am a famous skinny dipper. I like to have fun.

10:42 So do I.

10:42 Yeah.

10:44 What could go right? Absolutely nothing.

10:46 Okay, Kelly Cuoco reflected on Drew Barrymore's show about how she thought she would never get married again after her divorce. Let's hear that one.

10:57 I've used the words never a lot before I turned 40, and now I've learned, like, oh, gosh, like, I wish, you know, I wish I could go back and tell my old self, like. Sorry, it's crazy. Right here. I have like the craziest story. This is a handful of years ago when I said that. I was going through my divorce and I was actually, it was the premiere of the second season of Flight Attendant.

11:22 And I woke up that morning. I was so depressed and so sad. I couldn't even breathe. I was just like laying on the floor. I literally thought I was going to die. I really did.

11:32 I said, what am I doing?

11:33 And it was like the worst morning of my life. But knowing the night was coming was supposed to be the best night of my life. It's so crazy. Those things sometimes happen at the same time. I was laying on the floor and I was looking at the floor. My team came over to get me ready and they literally got me ready on the floor. I couldn't get up.

11:46 I'm like, I can't go. I can't go anywhere. Like I just, I blew up my life.

11:49 My life's over. My life's over.

11:50 I truly thought that. Never getting married again. I'm never going to have kids. This is it. And I knew when I was laying on that floor in my house, I thought, oh my God, this is what they talk about. This is the lowest point I could get. And I met three weeks later and I had like prayed and I feel like my soul died I feel like my soul died and I also said I think I did a magazine I was like I'm never getting married again and I said it I believe that in the moment met Tom You know what guys, sometimes you just change your mind and that's okay. Like sometimes you change your mind.

12:26 Like you probably didn't know I was laying on the floor before my premiere ready to die. Like that's true. I don't even know if I've told that story, but like that's like supposed to be the best night ever of my career. And I literally saw my soul leave my body. Yeah, I still get, it still chokes me up because I can remember it so clearly, but it made me a whole new person, but it takes a long time. It takes a long time to figure that out and a lot of forgiveness.

12:52 It took her two weeks to figure it out. I'm sorry. Can I jump in here? I have a lot to say about this.

13:01 Can I just start with never say never? Okay. Yes.

13:06 And that translates for me because I have been saying I will never get married again ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. It was so easy, Susan, to get married.

13:16 It is horrible. It's really hard. Yeah.

13:23 It's the only thing that they grant the degree very easy without taking the course.

13:27 I mean, I've been divorced. I know.

13:29 I know.

13:30 Mine took several, several years. Not that we were feuding during it because neither one of us cared to. have that final piece of paper. We were okay with our divorce, but that's rare. She says it is rare when she says she couldn't get up off the floor. She was doing a show. You, this is your job. The lowest of low. That is like some serious mental depression right there.

13:56 Well, you know, it reminds me of, I love, um, performers, right? Katy Perry, there was a documentary she did when she was married to Russell Brandt. And in her documentary, she was laying down crying, filed for divorce. This is a good little reference. And they did her makeup while she was lying down. And then they show her coming up through the stage, and she just clicks.

14:21 Snap to it. She went to work.

14:24 Which is good when you feel like you are, like what she said, dying. And I do think that that's a little triggering for people to say that because divorce does feel like death.

14:35 It does.

14:35 Grief feels like death.

14:36 You feel like failure sometimes, like you didn't succeed at this big thing called marriage. But it's not just one person's fault. People grow in different ways. I don't know what the situation there was. for them was for their divorce, but it doesn't matter.

14:52 She's got a new bag. Baby's got a new bag.

14:54 Three weeks later, baby.

14:55 Like, come on.

14:56 I've been waiting more than three weeks.

14:59 Keep them waiting. There's something to that too.

15:02 You know, it's funny because I think we've all been low. I've been on that floor crying. I may be not literally on the floor. It might've been in my bed or my car on the sofa, just drowning my sorrows. I was feeling sorry for myself. And I think it is part of the process, but it is not a pretty feeling. You're swollen. You look at yourself in the mirror.

15:24 And that's when I speak to the universe all the time. And I'm like, I'm sorry. I'm apologizing to the universe because I'm letting myself down. This is something that I want it. Why do I feel so horrible about it?

15:37 Yeah.

15:39 Well, and then you throw little kids into it. For me, that's my horse in the race, right? I've got a six-year-old, a four-year-old, and a two-year-old. And I've had days where I'm like, am I making the right choice? Like, could I have stuck this out? Could I? And I start to question myself.

15:55 Yes, of course you do.

15:56 But I took a shower today.

15:57 That's a step in the right direction. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off.

16:03 Put your big girl panties on.

16:05 That's it. Hold them up. Let's go. But no, honestly, I'm sure a lot of our listeners have been low, have been on that floor crying. And one person is different from the next is how to pick yourself up and start to move on. It just takes a moment.

16:23 One moment.

16:23 Just get up. Get up and fight this.

16:27 I believe in the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. I forget the book. Maybe they could put in the show notes. But I do like music therapy. Like music is.

16:34 Love it. Love it. I do it as well.

16:38 And if I can't get out of bed, I'm just like, okay, let's blast the song. And I like, I'm like Van Morrison, like, you know, rock and roll. Like it pulls me off the ground.

16:47 Some songs will trigger that memory though. And I just turn it up even louder and get through it because I did enjoy the experience of that song with that person. And now you know you're healing when you can do that.

17:03 I'm healing.

17:04 Yes, you are.

17:04 Full send. Full send. I'm going to come in and get you.

17:10 You're way better than when I saw you.

17:13 Well, that's another story that I couldn't share because the law is very scary with divorce. Yeah. And I deal with anxiety, travel anxiety. I haven't thrown up in a week. Your head and your stomach are connected. I don't like traveling. But when we were at dinner that night, nobody knew I was suffering in silence. I started getting harassed at dinner.

17:42 And like, I don't want to tell everybody my business. That's also another boundary, you know? So I was supposed to go on the boat the next day and I was dealing with the law, filing a police report, all these things.

17:54 That's not fun. My daughter is going through a divorce currently and Her husband was somebody we all adored. 12 years, they love each other. He was the best. And he started this change maybe about two years ago. Religion had something to do with it.

18:12 Got it.

18:13 Right now, they're separated. And a five-year-old came home crying because my daughter had something red on. And she said, that is the devil color. Everything red in the house, she wanted to destroy. What the hell are you doing to this child?

18:29 Okay.

18:30 Well, that's a whole other layer too. And that's what, I mean that, and then it's, I call it the trickle down effect, right?

18:36 Yeah.

18:37 It takes me two days to regulate my kids when they've been with the dad, we're doing a five, five, two, two. And, and then, but yeah, like, you know, I think also, I think grace is something to be spoken about as well. Just anybody who's maybe going through it. Yes. There is no manual for this, but I will say that people are judging me from the outside. And I do want to put this here. Somebody walked up to my friend Alana.

19:06 I wanted a friend there and said, nobody likes Courtney.

19:10 That's a terrible thing to share. Why would somebody say that?

19:14 They shared it to my face while I was there. I'm already at my lowest. I'm already at my lowest.

19:21 Ouch.

19:23 It hurts. It hurt, but you know what? It should make you stronger. That's okay if you don't care for me because you don't know who I am inside. I'm going through a tough time right now. Yeah. Those people, I believe in karma, I'm just saying.

19:50 All right, movingon.com. Divorce coach Leah Marie has some things no one warns you about when you get divorced. Well, let's hear it.

19:59 I want to hear this one.

20:00 Here's some nobody warns you about when it comes to life after divorce. And this is coming from someone who's been divorced three times and have coached hundreds of women through theirs. You're going to sleep better. You're going to laugh more and you're going to trust yourself more. You're going to learn to love being alone. Learn how to actually enjoy your own company and you will become extremely protective of your peace.

20:19 Now, I just say I agree with every word she said because it does take time. It takes a minute to get there. But you do enjoy your peace and you protect your peace. You love living alone. I love when I leave the house. I'm a neat freak. I'm a clean freak. I'm sorry. I apologize now. People come over, I clean behind them. Don't be.

20:41 Yeah, same.

20:42 When I come home to my house, it's exactly like I left it. Unless, of course, my ex-husband came in to cut the lawn or something. But do you know what I'm saying? People will enjoy that. We're mature adults now. You've been through divorce. Everything was us or us picking up after them or the arguments and the laundry. You don't have to worry about any of that.

21:08 And what I heard is her protect your peace because I'm doing that.

21:12 Yes.

21:13 But it's like for me, this house, my new home is a safe space. It's my safe space. And don't get me wrong. There's days where I feel a little lonely sometimes.

21:23 Absolutely. But there's a difference in being alone and being lonely. Remember that, darling. Remember that.

21:32 Yeah.

21:33 You're just alone. That's all. You're not lonely. You have a full life.

21:38 Well, the middle of the night is, I think, the hardest because I don't sleep that well sometimes, especially when I have the kids because I got to protect them.

21:46 No, darling. It's not protecting them. The kids are on a schedule. They're going to sleep. Mommy needs to rest as well so you can get up and get their breakfast ready before school. It's just a routine. Forgive yourself. Forgive yourself. Forgive him. And start this new life with your children over.

22:06 Yeah.

22:07 All right. Well, I mean, she said she was married, what, three times?

22:10 Three times she tried. Yikes. Shoot me now. Yeah.

22:15 Take me out to pasture. I mean, three times. Good for her. I don't gamble, but that's a lot.

22:21 I do.

22:25 I wonder which one of her favorite was. I wonder which husband her favorite was. I would love to dig a little deeper on that one.

22:31 I know. But everything she said is true, but it does take people time to get there. I mean, I talk to a lot of divorced people or widowed people, and they are enjoying their space. They're enjoying their their life and their friendships and their me time. Almost to, you get a little selfish, you know, this is about me now. Back off. Don't invade my privacy. This is my time.

22:57 Well, we know you'd like to shop.

23:00 I like to do a lot of things.

23:03 Oh my God, I'm dead.

23:07 Okay. With that being said. Let's move on to Samson Fadal talked about friendships after divorce. This I definitely want to hear because I believe in that.

23:18 And then I got divorced and I found out really fast. The lot of what I had been calling friendship was actually just shared logistics, shared calendars, couples dinners. events in the city, circumstances. But when those circumstances changed, so did a lot of those so-called friendships. Some of them stayed with him and that part sucked. Some of them just quietly faded because they were uncomfortable that I was single.

23:40 And I remember standing there thinking like, wow, my life is so full and I feel really alone right now. That was probably one of the loneliest chapters of my life. And I remember it.

23:49 It was awful.

23:50 So I have a quote here that I want to say. And I've been dealing with this myself. I dealt with it when I got married. I lost friendships because I was no longer the fun available one. But sometimes life is like an elevator and some people need to get off on different floors, period.

24:12 I misread the sentence. I've not misread it, but I interpreted it. I thought she meant being friends with her ex. That is unusual. And I am great friends. Vicki and I are better friends now than we were when we were married. but I totally understand that because you're the third man now, you know, and I had friends long before the marriage and they're still with me after the marriage.

24:36 And some of them during the marriage that we created are still friends with both of us. So it's not always the way that she, maybe I'm lucky, but I get what she's saying. All of a sudden, these aren't real friends. You know, they kind of diss you a little bit and they don't want to invite you if he's coming and We can both be in the same place at the same time, depending on the reason or the severity of the divorce, the arguing or whatever. Why can't all adults grow the F up and be in the same room at the same time and be mature?

25:12 You can be friendly. Do you not feel that way? I don't.

25:16 I think people have to pick sides.

25:18 I do.

25:19 And especially early days of divorce. So Like for me, for example, I can speak to what I went through when I was working. I got an order of protection. We cannot be in the same place.

25:30 I know. Why? Because it got so bitter?

25:34 I mean, that's a story for another day.

25:36 Okay.

25:37 There's money right now. We're still going through the throes of divorce.

25:41 Yes.

25:42 But like his friends, we are family. For example, this is a good reference. My dad, my sister, he cheated on me for eight years. He lost my sister, my dad, um, all my friends, everybody unfollowed him. That's another layer to it. Right. So he was a cheater.

26:00 Yeah.

26:01 Yeah. Um, but so I'm saying like to that clip, like I, I'm not going to be friends with his friends. His friends, my friends are my friends. The line has already been drawn.

26:13 In this situation, it's right. It is right. You don't want to be friends with his friends. You want nothing to do with him. However, he is the father of your children. You're going to have to deal with his ass for the rest of your life. And the sooner you make it more civil, the better.

26:29 I don't know how to do that. Every time I try, it's like he said, Courtney, I'm going to go out swinging.

26:35 Knock yourself out. I hope you don't get sick. Use a raincoat, darling, or die.

26:45 But like, I do think friendships, like what you're saying, you're farther along in the process.

26:52 Yes.

26:53 But like, you're right. We're all adults.

26:55 We weren't young either when we divorced. My children were older. You know, they were finished school. So I think it's a different dynamic when you get to that level or that point. And I mean, for me, my friends that are also married that love us, they get excited when I talk about meeting somebody.

27:14 Bring them, bring them.

27:15 Let's do a dinner. Let's do the four of us. We'll feel them out for you. They are real about it. They encourage me to keep moving on. And in the same breath, when they're all going out, say there's six of them. And of course, I'm invited. I go, no, guys, they go, Susan, are you serious? You're one of us.

27:34 So it doesn't matter if it's seven of us. So it's okay either way. I guess I have really good friends.

27:41 Well, I'm so lucky to be one of them. I feel like, you know, I, what I talked about having a crush and You know, I think the power of women is so powerful, like getting together, having fun, laughing, all these things. Like my girlfriends, I have had a lot of friends. I'm in an age range where a lot of my friends have been divorced. I've been to one of my best friends from high school's two of her weddings. They have kids. And, you know, the truth has started to come out. People are like, oh, they met my ex. And they're like, you know. I will say people are trying to set me up. I'm not ready for that yet.

28:18 It's okay.

28:19 But my girlfriends that are married that maybe, I don't want to speak for everybody, that maybe need a little excitement, they love to hear my story.

28:29 Yes. They're getting stuck in their own ways. The juicy stuff, do tell, do tell. Yeah. Just as you're saying that, it tells me they're happy for you and it's welcome if you find somebody that you'd you're interested in and you want to see and date, you're going to eventually bring them around your friends, right? Yeah.

28:50 And they will shake them down.

28:52 That's a poor guy. I don't want to be him.

28:59 I'll let you do it. But I think it's all good.

29:03 It is not everyone's friends, except a new man in someone's life. And that is, far beyond me because a friend is supposed to be happy when you're happy they're happy for your happiness right they were there holding your hand while you cried through this whole ordeal and now you've been okay with yourself and now you're ready to start meeting people it's it's a process sweetheart and you're you're getting through it you are and I'm talking to you.

29:38 Well I appreciate the I, you know, I, I, I think when you've been deeply betrayed, I don't, I don't, I don't trust a lot of people.

29:46 Of course you're not going to for a long time.

29:49 Like I, I just, so the people that are grandfathered in, in my life, like Amy Sugarman.

29:54 Yeah. She's good people.

29:56 Good people.

29:57 Good people.

29:57 Um, So I'm having a hard time right now making new friends because also, and this is another layer that you and I could probably both understand. You walk into the room, Susan, you are like lightning in a bottle to me, right?

30:11 I'm just loud.

30:12 You're energetic. You're magnetic. Thank you. But you also were on The Bachelor. And so there's that layer of people that want to get close to you because of that.

30:23 Yes, yes.

30:24 And that makes it really hard to trust people. For me, it always has.

30:28 Well, you keep everybody at a certain distance. You only let a select few into your heart. And that's a really tough thing to do because I am very trusting to a fault. I've been burnt many, many times. But like you're saying now, it's hard for you to trust. Like when we talked about friendships after divorce, in their case, she didn't trust any of those people. They all kind of went their own way or went with him. And it's okay. You don't have to trust everybody sooner or later.

31:07 It's gossip, though. I take my kids to school and everybody's trying to fish for. It's like I am not like a person to be gossiped about. Like this is my life.

31:16 This isn't a joke, people. This is real freaking life.

31:20 And they want the updates. I'm like, listen to my podcast. That's it. Good.

31:24 Good for you. And that's how you should handle it. You're getting way stronger from the last time I saw you. I'm proud of you.

31:32 Thank you, Susan. You're getting there.

31:33 Okay, let's get the next one. I can't wait because I love this girl.

31:37 Oh, me too. Can I do it?

31:39 Yes, you can. Yes, you can.

31:41 All right, you guys. One of my favorites, Gwyneth Paltrow. Gwyneth Paltrow talked about the reason she and her ex chose to consciously uncouple, which is, by the way, Chris Martin, lead singer of Coldplay.

31:57 So I was married to a guy named Chris and we lived in London and we decided we were going to get a divorce. And we, we really sat down and thought like, is there a way that we could do this? Because this is like very me, but when I was getting divorced, I was like, how, how do I do this?

32:17 So I talked to.

32:19 All my friends who came from a divorced household and I said, tell me what was the worst thing? Like, what do you feel you have scars from to this day? And they said, you know, it wasn't really so much the divorce because like you're a kid and yes, of course, the idea of it is terrible, but you sort of get used to that quickly. They said the worst part was like my parents, you know, my dad used to drop me off at the end of the driveway. Like it was so tense at my birthday parties. You know, they never ate dinner in the same room until my college graduation. And it caused me so much pain. So I was like, how could we not do that?

32:57 Like, is there a way?

32:59 Where you can sort of circumvent all of that awful stuff when no one is in the same room and get to the graduation where you're all having dinner at the same table. So Chris and I had this therapist that was really brilliant and he sort of introduced us to the concept and we just made a commitment to really put the kids first. And so what that meant was to stay... A family, even though we weren't a couple.

33:29 Well, I want the name of that therapist.

33:31 Well, I absolutely love this because she had trauma from her childhood. I didn't have that. And a lot of people do. OK, but she wanted to be different. She did exactly what Dickie and I. We are still a family. We still do family things with our grandchildren. But it sounded like they were equally different. ready for their divorce and they were equally wanting perfect familyhood with their children and both of them as parents so there should be no reason that they all can't be in the same place at the same time and eventually you bring your significant other I mean I've had boyfriends to dinner on Christmas dinner Dickie still comes with my kids and grandkids always always it's okay some people can do this And

34:25 I think, Gwyneth, I admire you.

34:28 Well, I love her. She is an L.A. girly, and she runs Goop. I mean, I have hair products from her. I mean, talk about running an empire. I swear. Talk about being the best in your arena, Chris Martin. I mean, we cannot forget the CEO at his concert. Remember that story?

34:46 Yes, yes.

34:47 That got busted.

34:48 Ooh, baby, that was fun. Big news. But shit happens, as we say. Shit happens.

34:57 Yeah, but they are both two very successful people. Like I said, I would love the name of that. Like, that is smart, and it sounds like they... I wonder if they'll get back together ever. He was dating Dakota Johnson for a while, who I also love.

35:10 I do, too. She's beautiful.

35:12 She's beautiful. I think they just broke up.

35:14 Whether they get back together or not, though, what they're doing for their children... That's the important part. Like she said, she used to dread that dad dropped her off at the end of the driveway because they were so argumentative. The parents like that is terrible. I think it's selfish when you have children. You got to swallow it, man, and just be civil to each other until you can build a real life friendship because you did spend X amount of time together. You did have these children together.

35:44 Yeah.

35:45 That's what I'm worried about. That's what I fear the most because I feel like I've been trying to, and I don't want to put my stuff here for other people, but like when I get sad or if I have a hard day, I think about Christmas, like putting the Christmas tree up and.

36:02 I know there's going to be all those memories and each year it'll get a little bit easier.

36:06 But like my daughter, for example, Paloma is four. And like, I think about like the father daughter dance, you know, like I want him to be able to send me a picture. Like, you know, yeah, so you cheated, but like you have a daughter, it's like female empowerment. And, you know, he's, I hope in time.

36:24 He will, you know, the most important thing, and this is going to be hard to hear. You have to forgive him. You have to, you can't move on until you do. Hardest thing, hardest thing. I'll give you that. You do need to forgive him for his mistakes because They weren't your problem.

36:43 Well, he could. You know what? If he said sorry to me one time, this has been going on for eight years. If he said sorry and owned it, I mean, sorry goes a long way with me. And if he can't swallow his pride or push down his ego.

37:00 You're not going to have a happy place for you and your children and him. It'll never be. Somebody's got to be the bigger person. I forgive you. You don't even have to tell them. Just for yourself. You have to forgive and move on.

37:15 But I don't even look at him. I told him when he admitted everything. I said, I don't even view you as a friend. A friend wouldn't treat me like this.

37:23 You're right. And once you get all that out and said, repeating it isn't going to change anything. Release yourself from this nightmare.

37:31 Okay.

37:32 I forgive you.

37:33 Yeah.

37:34 You'll never forget. You still have feelings.

37:38 I know where the bodies are buried.

37:40 Get to that point. Did you ever see people like in courtrooms when they killed one of their siblings or their children and the parent has to forgive them?

37:51 Yes.

37:51 And you're thinking, you're effing crazy. How could you forgive? They were drunk and driving or whatever.

37:57 That always pains me when the mom gets up there and says, I forgive you to their face. And I always think that I can't do, I couldn't do that.

38:06 Because you have so much hatred and anger. You were hurt. I get it. But try. Okay. Forgive him and move on. Things might get better.

38:28 All right, movingon.com.

38:30 Yes, Drew Barrymore. Okay. She opened up on her talk show to an audience member who's going through divorce and had this to say. Go, Drew.

38:42 I love her.

38:43 Divorce took me years to get over. I know that's probably the worst thing I could tell you.

38:49 How long were you married?

38:50 21 years.

38:51 Okay.

38:51 Do you have kids?

38:55 Three.

38:57 How old are your kids?

38:58 My oldest is 27 for my first marriage, 20 and 18.

39:03 Okay.

39:04 That's, I think, hopefully, is it a little easier knowing they're okay in the world?

39:10 Oh, yes.

39:11 I dropped my baby boy off at college and said, peace out.

39:14 Like, I'm ready.

39:18 Yep. Yep.

39:20 Well, maybe this is your time.

39:23 Maybe.

39:24 You put yourself on the back burner for everyone else. And the great Barry Michaels, who is my therapist, and I don't even think that title is appropriate because he's just so much more than that. He taught me last night, and I wrote it down on a card, to please turn my self-loathing into self-love.

39:47 So I don't know if that helps, but.

39:49 We beat ourselves up so much. It's like, not only do we put everybody first, but then everything.

39:54 That went wrong is our fault. Why can't we get over it quicker?

39:59 It's like you stay in this stuck state.

40:03 You get stuck in the weeds too.

40:05 It's so hard to rise above and out of it and get closer to the sun.

40:10 You know, you stay wallowing in the darkness. So give yourself time.

40:16 That's the thing she said. was you got to love yourself. It does take time, but it's time now to forgive yourself. Just like I said, you forgive them, you forgive yourself. I'm sure we've all had a part in our divorce. I wasn't perfect. Of course, I'd say it was all his fault, you know, but nothing's my fault. But when you get down to it, I had a lot to do with it too. We both grew different ways. Our advice was real. It's time to love yourself again. You've got to be okay with what happens. Forgive yourself and him and move on. What do you think? You're feeling it.

40:59 You're living it. This has got to be tough for you right now. Yeah.

41:03 No, I love Drew Barrymore. I think she's a, you know, she also talked about therapy, which I have a life coach who's now my best friend. And I, people keep asking me, I know what people are going to ask me. Like, are you okay?

41:17 I've been better. And that's honest.

41:19 Susan for president. It's okay to not be okay.

41:23 It certainly is.

41:25 What I heard in that, what I took from that was he wanted to stay with me. He wanted to reconcile. And there was a moment of, should I stick this out for the kids? We all think that. And there's been days where I'm like, if it was one affair, maybe. Maybe I. I'm making a mistake, you know? But I also heard as women, we can be so hard on ourselves. And I mentioned grace earlier and I can kick my own ass every which way till Tuesday. I promise you that.

42:01 But you also gotta love yourself. Well, I do.

42:05 I do. And I have, I'm getting my confidence back. I think when you're in a relationship, when you're in a relationship, I was with him for eight years. There's, you can lose yourself, right?

42:15 Yes, we do. We do. We can become invisible. Yeah.

42:21 I'm a mom. I have three little kids like, you know, but it's easy to, you know, just focus on that.

42:29 It's something you just said that you feel like, should I have staged that I have tried harder because of the children, your children are young. They will adapt as long as you keep it civil and, Me, I waited. I was unhappy years before I asked for it. I waited until my kids got out of high school. And I'll never forget, I was making chicken cutlets and my twin boys came up to me and said, Mom, why did you wait so long? We knew you weren't happy.

42:58 I said, I did for you. To keep this family, a family, they go, Mom, you didn't need to do that. I didn't think they knew. We didn't argue. We weren't fighters. We just lived separately in the same house.

43:11 I just got goosebumps.

43:12 It was uncanny that they said to me, you should have, and I keep thinking, if I left at 40, I could have had another life. I could have met somebody, you know. You always say, I could have, I should have, I would have. We did what we did. You did what you did. Love yourself. Forgive yourself. what happened and your children are going to be fine. They have love.

43:37 You love them unconditionally. And I'm certain their father loves them as well.

43:43 Susan for president.

43:45 That's where it took 69 years to get all this wisdom.

43:50 Well, how lucky am I that I get to, and we get to help people because that's my sole purpose in life is to use my voice and find myself again. I've lost and found myself many times in this lifetime and I'm only.

44:02 43 and And you'll do it again, I'm sure. It's not over.

44:06 And you know what?

44:08 I love the fact that I'm able to have women out there hear me that life still goes on after 60, after divorce, after a death. You are still alive. And you know what? This is my last chapter, and I'm praying it's a long chapter. I rarely, I say yes now to things that scare me a little, to things that live. People live. Get up off the sofa. Don't think it's over. Nobody needs you anymore. Your children are grown.

44:38 Your grandchildren, they only need you to babysit. You need your own life. Get out there and take an activity or whatever, whether you meet a girlfriend or a man, doesn't matter. Take that trip that you always thought about taking. You've got to finish your life in a happy note the way you want it to go. Yeah.

44:59 Boom, shaka, laka. And you know what? The fun part about this, you have many chapters left. I'm just going to interject there.

45:08 I'm 69, babe. It's the last chapter. Hopefully, it's really long.

45:11 No, but you can't put that into the universe. You have many chapters left, but... The beauty of your chapter is you don't have to worry about getting pregnant.

45:19 Ah, this is so true.

45:21 Fly your freak flag. I was in my 20s trying not to get pregnant all those years. Now I'm 30. Now I'm 40. I'm probably perimenopausal. But, you know, you don't have, it does.

45:31 I don't have to worry about any of those things. Just who's going to treat me good. That's all.

45:38 Well, I got this cat here.

45:39 There you go. There's a love for an animal. And that's it. And for some people, go out and get a pet. If you need somebody to depend on you and your little best friend when you walk in the house, go get a pet. Stop feeling sorry for yourself. Get up and live this last chapter.

45:56 Well, and Heather's here. She's got her dog there.

45:59 Now he's so cute. I just saw it.

46:02 But, you know, I really, I hope, you know, that you guys enjoyed this episode and Hey, look, if you're trying to put your life back together after divorce, we can help. Send us an email or leave us a voicemail. All the info is in the show notes. So follow us on socials. I do part two and I heart podcasts where falling in love is the main objective.

46:25 And especially even if you're falling in love with yourself again.

46:30 Yeah, I like that.

46:31 Yes.

46:32 I like that. I like that better. I don't know if falling in love is the main objective for me right now.

46:38 It's falling in love with you.

46:40 But never say never.

46:41 Yep.