#324: Thoughtful Gift Giving Ideas

0:00 Elsie You're listening to the Beautiful Mess podcast, your cozy comfort listen. I'm your host Elsie Larson. Emma And I'm your host Emma Chapman. Elsie This week, we're talking about how we plan gifts, giving secondhand items, and the inevitable avalanche of stuff that enters our homes as moms to young kids. We're also answering a listener question about career transitions and one about navigating family relationships after leaving the religion you were raised in. That's a lot. That's a lot to cover. I know. I like all these topics, though. Yeah, we can get into each one of these. I think these are great. I love this one. Okay, so Jamie wrote to us, and she says that I often sound surprised by things that Emma says on the podcast about either her weekend

0:11 plans or you know what she's reading or what she's working on even though we're sisters. Emma As if she doesn't pay attention to me. Elsie No, no. But I mean, but no, I wanted to respond to this because I I do think this is so funny. Okay, so first of all, like those reactions are all real. Like there's I I don't think I've ever faked a reaction. Well, I probably have, but I can't think of it.

0:18 Emma No offense, you're not a very good actor. Elsie I'm the worst actor. Emma Yeah. So yeah, like no, it's pretty real. We're just talking. Elsie Yeah, I think that the I think where that's coming from is that we've been in a season of life, especially this past year, when Emma's son was not in daycare. She like she could barely talk to me. She never called me. She never Facetime. So when I lived in Nashville, we would FaceTime for like an hour a day.

0:28 Like we would just do nothing but like blow off work and talk all the time. But more recently, you know, she's got a two year old. He is like one of those two year olds that will like crawl out the doggy door if you're not looking at him every. Emma You got to watch him. Elsie So she's just been keeping her kid alive. And actually, I don't hear. I see her about two times a week, and we do hang out. But a lot of the times when we're hanging out, we're in family activities where we're chasing kids, we're helping someone who's crying, we're feeding someone, we're talking to our parents. You know what I mean? So we're actually like not spending every day together as much as unless we're going on a trip. We're not spending 24/7 together as much as they wish we were.

0:39 Emma Yeah. So you really are hearing us catch up for real on the podcast because sometimes it's the main time that we talk that whole week or even like two weeks. Elsie Yeah. Emma It's like just us, although it's not really just us because we're literally recording it for other people. Elsie That's probably why we're in such a good mood when we record the podcast because this is also kind of our quiet time.

0:49 Emma It kind of is. Yeah. Elsie And afterwards we get special lunch and yeah. Emma Not today because it's half day for your kids at school. Elsie Not today, but normally. Okay, so anyway, that's that's why t hat. Emma You're correct, Jamie. You got us. Elsie And the reason why Emma's not surprised by anything I say is because I talk too much. Don't you think that's why?

1:02 Emma Yeah. And also though, like we're gonna out you talk too much. It's like I'm also a really low reactor. Like I sometimes like don't react at all to things that like you really should react to. But I'm just kind of a low reaction person, so that's true. So there you have it. I don't know. Elsie Ok, so we have three listener questions we're going to jump into today. Do you want to do the first one or read the first one?

1:09 Emma Yes, this is from Sarah. Sarah says, "I actually find Christmas gifts stressful because I find the avalanche of stuff I didn't choose really overwhelming. In the past, we've done experiences rather than gifts, but this year I've been thinking about thrifted and antique gifts to try and curb the waste and maybe end up with more thoughtful and better quality stuff. Thoughts?

1:14 Elsie Okay, so I I do have passionate feelings about giving secondhand gifts. I think that a secondhand gift can be the top most thoughtful thing you can give, but it does have to be perfect. So, wow, you know what I mean. Like it, it has to be a really thoughtful, personalized gift. It can't just be like something cute you found at the store. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's what I mean by that. So, like, one of my friends got me this book, this little tiny book, and it's on my bedside table. It's always, and it's called like, and it says like the title is Elsie Wind, and I know, and it's one of my favorite things, and it's so sweet, and I know that she's not like a an enthusiast for antiques the way that I am, but you know it means so

1:22 much to me that she was in a rare bookstore and she saw it and she found it and you know it's it's really so it's special like it's it's kind of more special than any other gift that was a book you know. But I also think I don't know. I see people on TikTok that buy like a set of glasses or something and like wash them and make them look nice and put them in a basket and give them. And I don't know. I don't know.

1:26 I guess it just depends on like you have to know the person. You have to know what they're into. Like I'm not against it, but I feel like it can also be just like a regular generic gift, or it can be. I so I think it's better to go like highly, highly personal. I also think Etsy is a great place to find those like really personalized gifts.

1:30 Emma Yeah, eBay is good too. Sometimes I feel like we did a previous episode a few weeks ago now where we talked about different ways we shop on Etsy and eBay, but like one thing, for example, is I like to buy sometimes my friends, like female friends, girl, women, like a vintage designer scarf. Because to me, a scarf is something that it's not sized, and you can wear it around your neck. You can wear it in your hair. You can also just tie it onto your bag. Like it's kind of one of those things that even if you're not really a scarf girly, which I am, like silk scarves is what I'm talking about. I feel like it can kind of fit a lot of people, and it can be nice to get something that's like vintage and designer because that's sort of

1:38 fancy. Yeah, but it's not going to be 1000s of dollars. It's going to be you know. Elsie You can get one of the best brands in the world like Scaparelli or Chanel, like something that you're really into for yeah, like 100 or a couple $100, which you know, for a really meaningful gift, like a lot of our friends are turning 40. You know, like if that's a day, that's a time for a special gift.

1:43 Emma Yeah, and you can get like colors that might really suit that person. Like if you know she wears red a lot, so I'm gonna try to look for something that's like, you know, warm tones red. Like I just feel like that can be something. So there's always something like that. But I'll also say I have had times, and you can you can judge this however you want, but I'm telling you the truth.

1:48 Elsie Okay. Emma Where I will buy my kids toys from the thrift store, especially when they're little, and I clean them and I put them in a like bag, like I put them in a package and stuff. Not like to make it look like it came from the store, but just like I make it cute to like gift. Yeah, but like, there's really no reason to buy a whole bunch of brand new monster trucks. If you find a bag of used monster trucks at the thrift, just wash them, yeah, and it's perfectly fine. So I've done that quite a bit with my kids, and maybe as they get older, they might not, they might notice more, they might not like it, maybe they will like it. I don't really know. We'll see. But to me, that's like if shopping for toys, like you actually can find some decent stuff.

1:58 And if you're getting not stuffed animals, because to me I'm like, how do you clean that? I need to know best how to clean that. But like anything plasticky or wood stuff, things that you can clean, you can wipe it down, you can give it a good clean. Like why not get it from the thrift store if you see it? And sometimes that means I'll buy it like months beforehand, like six months beforehand, and it sits. But if it's something I know my kids like, like monster trucks, that's kind of a forever thing for my older son.

2:03 Then I know I'm good. Sometimes their their taste vary, so that can be kind of a tricky thing. But anyway, I think secondhand's great. I love secondhand. Elsie Yeah. Emma And as far as the avalanche of stuff, so here's what I do right before Christmas and right before birthdays. I clean out the closets. So this goes for like myself. I clean out my closet constantly. It's just kind of a comfort thing for me. I like feeling like everything in my closet and in my home is something I want and need and use. It makes me feel really good. It feels like I don't have clutter and it's usually clean. But especially my kids, right before Christmas, I will clean out their rooms. So any toys that are like broken, or they haven't played with them in a long time. Those are either getting thrown away or

2:14 taken to the thrift store. And same thing with clothes. They don't tend to get tons of clothes for the holidays or their birthdays, unless I specifically ask for that. But nevertheless, I think it's a good time to kind of clean everything out. And to me, this works really well because if you do it right before, then they get all this new stuff, and they don't even notice if you've cleaned out some things that honestly they maybe didn't want, but they might notice it. I don't know if your kids are like that, but mine like won't play with something for six months, and then they're like, "Where's my this thing?" Because they like notice that you moved it. So it's better if you do it right before holiday, because then they have all

2:21 this new stuff that they're focused on, and they don't even really notice that you've cleaned things out, so their room is like actually manageable and fun to play in. Elsie Yeah, no, I do the same thing, and my kids have actually never noticed before, never. Emma One of my kids has. It's a real observant one.

2:27 Elsie Yeah, I think cleaning out your kids' stuff for them instead of expecting them to do it when they're honestly, I still do it for my 11-year-old. So I don't know. I don't know what what age that's going to change. Emma To me that's different than having them clean their room with you or help you put away their laundry.

2:33 That is like you know age appropriate, but you're getting them to purge. Yeah, this is like we're cleaning it out. I'm getting rid of stuff and. I will do that with my kids at some point, but I think like to get it really good, you kind of do it for them for a long time. Elsie Okay. So, final words on like we didn't talk about giving experiences rather than gifts, but like, what do you think makes like really good, thoughtful Christmas gifts? I think okay, for me, slow shopping, like for example, like I already have my mom's Christmas present because she told me on a random day a random thing. You know what I mean?

2:41 Emma Yeah. Elsie And it's and I just like but that now. Yeah, randomly, and it's done. And I think for kids, I like the idea of experiences, but I sometimes think there's been a couple of times when people gave us like passes that we didn't use, and then I felt guilty. So I don't know. I for my kids, what I appreciate most is when people give them creative gifts, and so one of our kids is more interested in like science and space and things like that. So like books. Oh, and also Twilight. So anything, anything like that. And one of our kids is just like only cares about baking, and so anything in those categories feels really, really thoughtful.

2:50 And I don't know. I I don't think it's on you to be like the most thoughtful for someone else's kids. I think like your own. For my own kids, I already know what I'm getting them, and I won't tell anyone. You know what I mean? Because those are my gifts, right? Emma Yeah, yeah, yeah. Here's what I will say though: if you ask someone, if you're like, "Oh, I want to buy," you know, my nephew a present. What do you think you would like? And you ask his mom or dad, whatever, and they send you some suggestions. I think you should go with that.

2:57 Elsie Yeah, I think you should follow the suggestions. Emma Yeah, I think you should follow the suggestions. I I because anytime someone asks me like what my kids want, and I honestly like will take time to sit down and like find some things that I think they truly would like that I know we're not buying for them, and I'm not expecting that they necessarily buy those exact things. But I do send like thoughtful links, and then the day comes and it's like they didn't get any of that. I'm just like okay, well, oh, I don't know. Like I'm just kind of confused.

3:05 Elsie You feel like they wasted your time. Emma Well, a little bit, and also I'm like, did you not like my suggestions? Did you not receive them? Did I not? Did you know? And you go back in your text, and you're like, no, I sent them. And it's like, okay, that's fine, but like, why did you ask me? If you just if you want to just pick something, great, go ahead. Like I get that. I totally get that.

3:12 Elsie I think you're giving a good etiquette guideline that people don't say. Like, don't ask unless you're willing to follow. Yeah. Okay. Emma If you want to make it up, wonderful. But just don't ask then, because yeah, I don't know. But yeah, I like. I think experiences are better for older kids and adults, I think little kids it can be hard for them to even understand. Like if you give them like a pass to the aquarium or something, for example. Yeah, my son would love that. Actually, I think if five, he might be fine with that because he would be like, "I love the aquarium." But it is like they're not receiving something in the moment, and that can be kind of tricky for a really little young mind because it's just kind of it's nebulous, right? It's not the same thing as

3:22 getting a toy, a Hot Wheel, or whatever the thing is. Elsie Yeah, but yeah, definitely shopping slowly, making the list. I try to be as organized as I can, and I try to do all the wrapping at once because when you're just like making, like I sometimes just have like a shelf in my basement, and sometimes you can just forget, like you know what I mean? Yeah. Like I got a gift for Emma like months and months and months ago, and it's like, who even knows? You know?

3:28 Emma Yeah, you do have to kind of stay organized if you get things way ahead, which I will get like personalized things off Etsy. So I have like a spot where I put it, so I don't forget that I bought that. You know, I'll also say since we're kind of in like early Christmas season, this is really more Thanksgiving season. Just a random idea. I'm thinking about our niece who lives far away.

3:33 Elsie Yeah. Emma So like sometimes you have family members who you won't see for a holiday or for you know like you won't see them for Christmas, and I think it's great to mail stuff. But I'll also say one thing that can be kind of fun because they're going to get lots of stuff right on Christmas. That's the holiday. It can be really fun to send a random gift, like a Halloween gift or a Thanksgiving gift, and it's just something that you think they'll like. Like maybe it's what you would have got them for Christmas, or maybe it's just something small and random. And it's more the goal is just to say, "I'm thinking about you," and like you know, not to be selfish, but then your gift kind of stands out because you're probably the only person

3:43 sending a Thanksgiving gift because that's not really the time of year that we necessarily do gifts. Whereas at Christmas there's going to be all this other stuff, so it can be nice to kind of spread things out. So you know, I think it can be kind of cool for little kids, for teenagers, to kind of, you know, just have a different time that you're kind of because sort of the point of a gift in many ways is just to say I love you, and so you know to kind of spread that out. I think could be kind of fun.

3:48 Elsie I love. That's good. Emma Amaze, amaze, amaze. Elsie We have a question from Inga. It says, "I've been stumbling along a fairly boring career path for the past 10 years, and I'm struggling with the introspection needed to discover other potential areas I could pivot towards in order to spark a sense of purpose, creativity, and value. I am an Enneagram Type Seven, and I was wondering if you've considered if you'd consider doing an episode on how you both approach self-discovery and introspection, especially when it comes to planning your next career steps, family milestones, etc., I tend to lean a lot on the go with the flow philosophy. And while there's nothing wrong with that, I would like to start feeling like there's more intention about my actions. Okay, cool,

4:00 Inga. This is a wonderful question, and this is one area that I'm so passionate about. I think we both are. Yeah, I know we have somewhere in our archive maybe a few previous episodes called like Five Year Plan. So if you search for that, that would be a good episode to listen to. But also, we'll just talk about it now. I think that the go with the flow attitude about everyday life is the way to be because, especially you know, when you're in like you're saying a career path where you're not 100% fulfilled, or you know you're in a season where you have young kids, or you're in a busy season, or whatever other struggles that come along. It's just better to like be able to enjoy what life throws at you, yeah. Each

4:07 day, you know, like I feel like it's hard enough without high expectations. Um, is another way of saying that. But, um, with that said, I think that having a five year plan and planning your career pivot are two of the most important, valuable things I've done for it's kind of the end of my 30s, the beginning of my 40s, and I'm still thinking about them today. Yeah. So yeah, I feel like it's kind of like my life's purpose to right now to build a life that I will be happy with when I'm 50, and I feel like when I'm in my 50s, I'll be doing the same thing for my 60s, and I think we can always be giving ourselves that gift of sort of like micro shifting towards the direction where we want to go. But sometimes that requires big, big decisions

4:14 and big changes. So yeah, Emma and I both, when we kind of felt like our career as a blogger, which we still we still have our blog and it still earns money. No one believes us. No one believes me. It's still an active career, actually. Emma I'm still writing new posts, I wrote one this week. Elsie Even my family doesn't believe me. We still have that, but you know, about I don't know, maybe even up to five years ago, we could start to see that things were shifting, and that it wasn't forever, and that you know presented us with an opportunity to choose something new, and so we've been pursuing a new career in these years, and kind of doing both, and that is a hard time to go through. But I also think

4:24 it's it's better to pivot slowly than to just like quit something and try to start a new business on day one, like expecting it to be a full time income. You know, like I would rather ease into it if given the opportunity. What tips do you have? Emma Yeah, pivoting a career is so tricky because you know Inga kind of hits it on the head because she talks about what did she say? She said it's a good spark a sense of purpose, creativity, and value. And I think you could also add to that paying my bills because these are all things that we tend to do with our careers, and and not every career does. You know, not every career you know feels creative or whatever. But overall, these are all things that we all want in our lives. We either get them from our

4:33 career or we get them from things we do in our personal lives, our hobbies, our play, our family, so on and so forth. And so it can be tricky because maybe you have a really high-paying career, and so your lifestyle is built around that income. And so, and you would like to pivot to something that's going to be lower income. You're also going to need to pivot your lifestyle to fit that lower income, or come up with a plan to split the difference and figure out that middle ground kind of thing. So there's sort of like a lot of considerations as far as logistics for pivoting a career, but I think that it can be such a wonderful thing.

4:39 I've had so many friends like start to get retrained, like they went back to school or they got a certificate or they started doing something kind of on the side, like every Friday they started working on their real estate license. You know what I mean? Like just different things, and I think it can be so fun because it just forces your brain to like learn something new, try something new. You get to be like a beginner, which I think can be really healthy. But yeah, kind of doing it slowly, I think, can be better, unless of course you've gotten fired or laid off, or I don't know. Google released algorithm that just destroyed your industry. Whatever, so then maybe you're gonna have to do it quicker than you'd like, but that's okay.

4:46 And yeah, and I think thinking about so for me, like thinking about like what does your ideal workday look like? Let's set aside money considerations and all that. Like, do you want to be around people? Do you want to be in a busy office building? Do you want to be in your home? Do you want to drive your car around town and meet people different places? You know, like just just thinking about like basic things like that. I think can be helpful when you start thinking about another career because there could be something that you've never even considered before that you would actually really enjoy the day to day of it, but you need to be thinking about what kind of environment you'd like to be in, how much you

4:53 want to interact with other people, what kind of interaction, you know, what makes you feel happy, what makes you feel like you're being useful and like purposeful, and all those things. So, I definitely think it's a longer process. I think it can involve a lot of journaling, reading books, taking personality quizzes, which some people think those are silly, and I think they can be. Sometimes they can help you understand something about yourself, and that's great. That can help you, you know, think about how to make your life a little bit more enjoyable for yourself, because that's kind of what it should be. It should be fun. You're on a great adventure until the day you die. So enjoy it. And as far as the like go with the

5:00 flow philosophy thing, I think so often, and I don't know why this is exactly, but like so often I do feel like there's this narrative that you're either a goal setter or you go with the flow. So those are the two. Those these are two very different people, and they never intersect. It's like, well, I don't really think that's true at all. To me, it's just like I have a plan, and then I have to go with the flow. Like that's sort of you know what I think. Like I was planning to make spaghetti and meatballs for dinner, and I'm opening the pantry and seeing I have no spaghetti noodles. So now I'm going to see what I have, and I'm you know still making meatballs or whatever. But it's like I'm just going to have to go with it. And I had you know, so

5:07 you have to like make a plan, and then you also have to enjoy the process of executing the plan, and also sometimes kind of wiggle a little small pivots as you get towards that goal that you want because it may not work out exactly as you thought. It may not be on the exact timeline you thought, and you're only going to get to live this life, as far as I know, or your next lives. I don't remember any of mine, so I have no idea. So you might as well enjoy this one. So if it's taking longer than you would like, try to find a way to enjoy that as much as you can, and maybe you can't, and that's okay too. But just you know, see what you can do with it because this is the only life we're going to get to live.

5:14 Elsie Yeah, something that has helped me as I've been retraining for a new career that I had zero experience and zero education in is kind of giving yourself the space, like multiple years if you need it, and the budget if you need it to like invest in yourself. Like pretend like you're you're trying to like simulate college because like I'm not in a position in my life where I want to or I am planning to go back to college, but I take a writing class every single month, and I always keep a budget for it, and I will keep doing that until I feel like I don't need. I'll probably keep doing them. Even I don't know. I I don't know if I'll ever stop because I think that it's been so valuable, and I have noticed so like the first year that I

5:22 started writing, I didn't take classes. I just tried to do it. I felt like I should be able to just do it, just wing it, and it didn't work out well for me. And the education really helped. So I think making a plan. It depends on what you're wanting to do. I guess my encouragement is: it's okay if you're not good at it on day one? You know, like it's okay to send yourself back to school to study something, to be practicing for six months or two years or whatever you need to do to gain a new skill. Because you know those, I think that sometimes you just have to put in the hours. So. Yeah, getting a dream career in midlife, like change, like you know, you've had one career and now you get to pick another one. I think it's both an

5:29 opportunity, like one of for me, it's like the best opportunity. Like I'm so excited, but it's also so scary because you are starting from nothing again. So just know that you're not alone, and do some testing. It's also okay to change your mind. It's okay to need you know a lot of help along the way and support.

5:32 Like Emma and I are really supporting each other, and we're also like in writing groups, and we have critiques, and we have all these, you know, different resources to do what we're trying to do. So, anyway, you can do it. But I think that when you like feel that voice inside of you, like what you're describing, it does mean that there's something ahead for you that you need to find.

5:36 Emma Yeah, yeah. And if it is going to be a slow transition, find some hobbies you love along the way too, just to like have some fulfillment and some fun, you know, activities for your brain, for your heart, for your creativity while you're pursuing the next thing. You know, yeah, do something fun, make something.

5:40 Everyone should. It's fun to make things. Yeah. Okay. And our last question, we're changing gears, and this is from Jamie. And Jamie says, "I am very interested in your conservative evangelical upbringing, and had very strong feels as you shared your stories on the pod." Thank you. I know that was hard. I am so curious about your current relationship with your parents regarding religion. Are they still religious? What about extended family? My mom is utterly horrified that I'm not a devout Catholic. It is such a point of contention. I refuse to discuss religion with her anymore. Yeah, I think a lot of people have this in their family, and if not religion, sometimes politics. I hear that a lot too, where friends are

5:47 like, "I vote so different from my parents," and that's a tricky thing too, you know? So yeah, I think a lot of people have some version of this. Elsie Yeah, I think I can describe a conversation with my grandmother recently because she is not a podcast listener. And yeah, okay. Emma Unless Aunt Karen shows her how to listen.

5:54 Elsie Aunt Karen, if you are listening, this is between us, so because it is hard. So yeah, we were at brunch, and she asked me if, and this is our grandmother is a conservative, yeah, 92-year-old conservative Christian. I love her more than anything in the world, and I think the signs have been there for a very long time that I'm not like exactly aligned with her, but she did not see them or choose to see them. So anyway, we were at brunch, and she asked if she could take my children to Vacation Bible School, and I said, "I'm sorry, no." And she said, "Why not?" And I said, "Well, we don't, we don't believe in hell or Satan, and we don't want the children to be in an environment where that's taught because we think it's

6:02 scary for them. And she was like upset by that; like it was hard for her, and it was hard for her for one because she felt like we were at risk because she does believe in hell, and so now she's scared that people she loves are going to go to hell, and I I can have a lot of compassion for that, and it was a hard conversation, but it was also I think healthy, and yeah, with our parents, it's kind of the same. Like our parents are, they have different beliefs from us, but they they treat us like adults, and they respect our boundaries as parents. And they will say their opinions, but they won't try to like force it on us. And I feel like we just kind of have like reasonable boundaries. I don't even think anyone. I mean, I know I've

6:09 made mistakes in conversations, and probably other people have as well. And I, I don't think it's, I think it's okay to not have perfect communication about a very difficult topic where people have deeply held beliefs that make them, you know, cry or you know, it's upsetting. I don't know. I I guess I'm kind of on team. Be as honest as you feel like you can, because you're not the first person they've ever met in life, you know, who doesn't have the same beliefs as them. And I think it's okay to like have family members that don't agree with you on everything and be able to still support each other and love each other and accept that like it's not your choice.

6:16 Emma Yeah, yeah, I do think like one thing I got from our parents because they're very much both like this. They're very like live and let live, like definitely. So they're like you do you, and I don't think they would like. That with us as children, because they had to raise us, so they had to give us they had to give us boundaries. They had you know, and they did all those things. That's how we all turned out pretty normal overall. But I think as adults now, that's very much their mentality, and that's my mentality towards other adults too. Is I'm like, you want to believe something that I think is, you know, cuckoo bananas. Okay, like that's fine. Like that's whatever. It doesn't really make a big difference to me. So it's

6:24 like just let people be who they would like to be. And I think our parents do let us be who we want to be, and we let them. And I think that there are times we can all feel that we're hitting on something in a conversation where it's not going to go a great way, and I think everyone just kind of leaves it usually, and that actually doesn't come up very often because I feel like we have so much to talk about that we have in common. Like one, we have so many kids and their grandkids that just telling funny stories about what the kids are up to is so much fun, and like asking about what it was like parenting us and how we're parenting our kids now. Like that's just a huge topic of conversation. And then too, our

6:31 parents are both very creative people. Our mom's a painter. Our dad's a musician. And so I feel like talking about art and creativity is something that is always like easy and like fun and like we're all interested in that. So I almost view that as like our family's religion more than anything else is like the act of creativity and making. Yeah, yeah. It's tough though if you have if you feel like you have nothing in common with your parents. That's tough because it's like you have to figure out what to talk about so you can spend time together because you probably love each other. So that's tricky. And then I also think when someone is very pushy, like they want you to have their religion, they're upset that you don't.

6:38 I think that's tough because you kind of just have to have a boundary and then just kind of keep sticking to it, you know. And it's like that's tough. but that's not really what we have in our family. Elsie Yeah, and I try to always think from our parents' perspective, like when at the time when we first did the evangelical upbringing podcast, which was years ago. I know it was hard for them. I knew that it would be hard for them to hear and like unpleasant because they were our parents, and we were talking about a part of our life that contained like abuse and like a cult-like environment, you know. So like that's that's not fun for anyone. And I yeah, I have compassion for that. And we did talk about it at the time,

6:46 and we've talked about it since then. And I think the like bottom line though, like they are not trying to change us, and we are not trying to change them. Like we are fully accepting each other, and I think that you have to have that in a family relationship where you have you know disagreeing beliefs. And I think if you can, I don't know. I think it's a really good thing that we're modeling for our kids now that are like our kids actively know that we don't always agree with everything that like especially that like my 92 year old grandma teaches them, but I think that that's healthy. I don't know. I remember my therapist said like it's teaching them that there's people in the world that are like going to have contrary beliefs,

6:53 and you have a way of responding to it, and it's like, yeah, it's okay. Emma And even just showing like we still love and respect each other, even though we believe very different things on certain subjects, I think can be a really good thing for kids to see. Yeah, be like, you know, oh, you guys don't believe the same thing at all, and you still like love and respect each other. And I can see you trying to do that around each other and around us. I think that's really healthy and good for them to see.

7:00 Elsie I don't even think it's bad to fight too. If if you need to have a fight. Emma Fighting is part of love sometimes. Elsie I think so. Yeah, I think if you need to express like something, you should. I don't think you should hold it in, and I don't think we are holding anything in anymore. And I don't think they are either. I think we're all at peace. We've communicated our differences, and we're kind of like cool with each other.

7:08 Emma Yeah, I think being careful with your language, being thoughtful with your language, to me is very different than holding something in. Elsie Yeah. Emma Like I think it's good to always be thoughtful with your language. Like think about who you're talking to and how your words might sound to them. I think that's good. But I also think saying your truth and finding finding your path to do that is also important. People can't love you if they don't know you.

7:17 Elsie Yeah, my encouragement is if you have a family member that you feel like you can't talk to, just try it. Just try it one time. Give them a little test. See if they pass or fail. If you know if they do okay, maybe you can have a bigger conversation. And if they shut you down or make you feel bad, that's okay. Like you learned something, and you know. But like, I think giving people a chance is good, you know, and not just like assuming the worst.

7:23 Emma Well, even when our 92-year-old grandma, you know, kind of has moments where she disagrees, however you want to say it, she still wants me to come over the next week. Elsie Yeah. Emma And like bring the kids and like have, you know, like she still loves me. She's just she's just worried, and we just disagree on some things. Like, is hell real? And you know, that's okay. I think like she still has the right attitude of like, I still love you, even if you don't believe the way I want you to believe. So it's okay.

7:33 Elsie And yeah, I think we're taking care of that relationship. You know, with like, we're using caution some of the time, but also I think the times that I have been really honest have made me at least feel closer to her, and have been kind of cathartic. Emma Yeah. No, I'm more worried about my kids jumping on the couches when they go over there and hurt her, you know, more than being like, "Here's the truth of what I believe, Grandma."

7:40 Elsie We have this problem that our kids are obsessed with playing with her wheelchair. Emma Oh my gosh! And her cane. My my son was like, "Look, it's a gun." He like picked up her cane. I was like, "No, no, leave her cane alone. Put it back where you found it." Elsie Yep. Yep. Anyway, yeah, we're sending love. If you feel like you can't talk to your parents, I'm so sorry because I think that's a terrible way to feel. I don't want to have that with my parents. I don't want to have that with my children.

7:49 Emma I don't have with my friends. I just want to be like, oh, we don't agree about something. Okay, you know. Elsie Yep. Emma That's that. Let's. We can talk about it. We can not talk about it. But like, I still love you. Elsie Good. Emma But yeah, that sucks if you don't have that. So we're thinking of you. Try to find your best path forward.

7:59 Elsie All right, we're gonna toss it over to a joke or a fact with Nova. Hey, Nova, what do you have for us this week? Nova A meditation. I think I have another one next week too. Elsie Oh, do you have a theme for today's meditation? Nova Yes. Elsie Okay. Nova My theme is, my theme is Thanksgiving. Elsie Okay.

8:14 Nova It's gonna be Thanksgiving night. Elsie Excellent. Nova Not night, but like Thanksgiving Day when we're all sitting around the table. Elsie Like when you're ready for the meal? Nova Yeah. Elsie Okay, this is fun. I like it. I'm closing my eyes and I'm taking my pose. Nova We need to do our breathing now. When you go and get ready for your Thanksgiving meal, you dress up in your favorite clothing, and you get ready for the night this night when you're going to sit around the table with everybody you love, and then as you hear the door ring, you hurry downstairs to open the door for everybody. Everybody goes in. Your cousins, your sisters, help you welcome them in. Your aunts, your uncles, your grandma, and your grandpa, or if you have two, and then when you go, and

8:32 you bring out the turkey, everybody is so happy. They sit down around this table, and you all talk with each other, and then you guys start eating. You love to dig into the turkey and the stuffing and the gravy with biscuits, everything else, and then you also get to drink juice and pumpkin juice and apple cider, and you will love this time as you take a big drink, and then your family starts playing right after watching some Thanksgiving movies, maybe a Halloween movie because it wasn't too far away, and then maybe rounding it off with a little Christmas show or movie. Then you guys all give hugs. Your family and guests all leave. Then you go back upstairs, and you get talked in by your mommy and

8:39 daddy, and you fall asleep thinking of the day that should come when you. Wake up and have another talk with your mom and dad, and with your sisters, and if you have them, brothers. And then you think about how lovely that meal was and how cozy you are in your snuggling bed. Now open your eyes. Get used to the light. I know sometimes if you have like a really bright light and you just close your eyes for a while, might hurt. And then I wish you all a happy Thanksgiving.

8:44 Elsie That's beautiful. Thank you, Nova. Good job. Nova Welcome. Elsie All right, we'll be back next week. Nova Bye. Oh, and make sure you don't turn up the volume when I'm speaking low, or you might get shocked when Mama talks right after. Elsie That's right. Thank you so much for listening. We are always accepting your hot takes at podcasta@abeautifulmess.com. We'll be back next week with a new episode.