The Dark Side of New Age: My Deliverance Story - #148 Justin Morris

0:00 My son usually takes a nap and so he goes in the bedroom and he looks over in the corner and he just makes this really terrified face, like very genuinely terrified. And my wife has never seen him terrified. And this probably continues for I would say 3 weeks to a month. Every single time he goes in the room, he's terrified.

0:23 And one day my wife is in prayer and she just feels like the Lord is telling her that we need to repent for the witchcraft that happened in my family, in my wife's family. We need to repent for all the generations of rebellion against him. And we need to go on our knees. And that's what we need to do. So my wife tells me this and I'm like, OK, let's do it. Like I'll do anything at this point to help my son not be afraid when he goes to sleep.

0:51 During this, when she was praying, I started to see in the spirit a cross made out of light. It was probably about the the size of like a card at the beginning. And as she was praying, it just got brighter and brighter and brighter and started coming out of the wall. And we finished praying. My wife goes for the afternoon nap and comes into the room, my son to go to sleep. And obviously my wife is looking at him and he looks over in that area and his face turns and he starts to smile and he goes all gone, mommy, all gone.

1:25 And I would say for a week or so after that, every single time he went in that room, he said all gone and was able to sleep and had absolutely no problems after that. They thought they were talking to angels. They were actually talking to demons. For years, Justin Morris and his wife lived deep in the New Age, channeling spirits, collecting crystals, and seeking power wherever they could find it. But when tragedy struck, that search turned dark fast. What happened in their home with their 19 month old son actually saw exposed the spiritual deception that it entangled them.

2:12 God's moving powerfully right now and pulling people out of the New Age deception and into truth. Which is why we've highlighted several of these stories over the past few weeks. Justin's story brings yet another angle you haven't heard. Today, Justin shares how God broke the darkness in his life and brought his family into the peace, freedom, and joy that they found in Jesus.

2:41 Please meet Justin Morris. Justin Morris, you're finally here. Yeah, and I'm so grateful to be here. You sent a video in, in three weeks, I think it'll be one year ago. And we got on the phone, we spoke and it was great. And it just he's like God's got to provide and it's taken some time and you reconnected a month and 1/2 or so ago.

3:14 And anyway, Long story short, after almost a year, you are sitting in the chair. And I feel humbled to be here. It's awesome and you got a great story and I'm just thankful to have you here. We've talked so much on the phone. I feel like I know you. And sometimes when we get face to face, it's like, is that who I expected? Yeah, kind of.

3:39 Your voice is always so soft and stuff. Anyway, I'm just really thankful to have you here and remarkable experience. And I think if I have to guess, I mean the fact that a year has passed, so many things were so new when you first sent that video and you've had it almost a year to live in that. And so certainly God did that with a purpose. And so I'm excited about that.

4:03 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So people sit in that chair because they have experienced God, not just believe that he's real. How have you experienced God? Well, the Lord has changed my life for sure. If you knew me like two or three years ago, I'd be a completely different person than who I am now. But I think I'll, I'll start with, I think probably the most impactful story that I've experienced, I should say experience of God. So my wife, this was maybe a year ago or so, or or more than that, maybe a year and a half.

4:46 My, my, I have a son. He's he was 19 months old at the time. And we were, we moved, we just moved into a new house. And so this is, was at the beginning, like you said, you know, a year ago, I honestly, when I made that video, I like, I didn't want to do it. I was just, I, I kept on putting it off and then I just finally did it because I just felt like, you know, that they know that conviction that the Lord puts on you and you just can't get rid of it. Like it doesn't matter what you do. Yes.

5:15 You're either going to be obedient, Are you going to feel? Is this thing hanging on you? Yeah. Exactly. And so, yeah, so we were, we moved into a new house and at that time it was very early in our walk. And you know, we were in new age for quite a long time before we came to the Lord. And we had all of this stuff in our house, crystals and all of these different things, dream catchers and all this stuff that we perceived had power. I mean, I guess it actually does have some power in, but in on the other side, on the other team's power, the wrong power, the wrong power.

5:51 So we we moved into this new house and we had all this stuff in boxes and my wife decided to get rid of some of it. And so we started to kind of see that process happen where every week she would get rid of something. I just feel convicted. A book or some crystals or whatever it was, but there was this box of very special stuff.

6:17 We actually had our daughter pass away when she was three months old, our first daughter. And we had this box of stuff that was hers. And in our old house we actually created like a little just memorial to her that was like a little bench that sat on the wall. And there was all this sort of these things on them.

6:37 A lot of it what that was in the hospital room with her. And so her birthday was kind of her sorry, not her birthday. The day that she died was coming up and my wife really wanted to do something to honor her during that time. And so she decided, well, we need to take all this stuff out. We need to put it up in our room.

6:56 It's been sitting in this box. We've been in this house for months and we just, we need to do it to honor her. So we started to, we did that I think on a weekend or something sometime. And this, this, this collection of stuff was like crystals. It was like all of these things that unfortunately people like, even though we thought it was good at the time, but what they, what people did was they cursed it. They put all of this stuff on it and they gave it to us. And we didn't know at the time.

7:28 And so we have all of these objects that are up on this little bench that are in in the bedroom that my wife and my son sleep in because my wife, my son is a variety 2 year old who needs a whole king size bed to move around and to sleep at night. So I got kicked out long time ago. But so we put all this stuff up and in the morning one day. And so my, my son usually takes a nap and so he goes into and to lay down to take a nap and goes in the bedroom and he looks over in the corner where all this stuff is on the wall. And he just makes this really terrified face, like very genuine, genuinely terrified.

8:14 And my wife has never seen, I mean, my son's 22 now then he was 17 and 19 months. She's never seen him terrified. And so and then he looks and he makes the sound he goes which basically the he speaks another language, Romanian and Romanian butterfly is futurash. So when he goes fu fu fu, he means butterfly. And he just had this very, very, very scared face on it look on his face and he loves butterflies. We there was, there was, you know, to be fair, there was a butterfly there that was like a stained glass butterfly. But he's, he loves butterflies.

8:54 So looking at that and having the opposite reaction of being so terrified is not something that is normal. And so he then ducks behind my wife, tries to use her as a shield and is just very, very upset and perplexed. And my wife is just like, what's going on? Like I have no idea what's happening.

9:14 So she puts him to sleep and this probably continues for I would say 3 weeks to a month. Every single time he goes in the room, he's terrified. And of course, it's heartbreaking and very, it's a huge anguish for us. And so we're praying, we're, we're asking God to, if there's anything there to get rid of it, what, you know, was so on and so forth. And one day my wife is in prayer and she just feels like the Lord is telling her that we need to repent for the witchcraft that happened in my family, in my wife's family. We need to repent for all the generations of rebellion against him.

9:58 And we need to go on our knees. And that's what we need to do. So my wife tells me this and I'm like, OK, let's do it. Like, I'll do anything at this point to help my son not be afraid when he goes to sleep. No kid should have to, you know, be terrified before when he goes in his own room. And so one morning we just decided to get down on our knees in front of this little altar. I don't know what to call it, the little memorial thing, and just repent.

10:27 Repent for all of the all of the things that we are unknown to us are known all the things that we were involved in, all the things that we, you know, have done and my, our, our families have done. And during this, when she was praying, I started to see in the spirit a cross made out of light. That was basically, it was probably about the size of like like a card at the beginning. And as she was praying, it just got brighter and brighter and brighter and started coming out of the wall. And I just, I just felt like literally goosebumps in the top of my head all the way down to my feet, back and forth, back and forth the whole time that she's praying. And then of course, you know, we finished praying. Obviously have a very powerful

11:22 emotional experience. But you know, you don't know, you don't know what you know what the result of it is right away. So this is the morning. So my wife goes for the afternoon nap and comes into the room, my son and he goes and to go to sleep. And obviously kind of my wife is looking at him and she's, you know, he, he looks like has that face on, you know, when you're kind of apprehensive, when you like getting ready to be terrified because you know that something bad is coming.

11:52 And then he looks over in that area and his, his face turns and he starts to smile and he goes all gone, mommy, all gone. And I would say for a week or so after that, every single time he went in that room, he said all gone and was able to sleep and had absolutely no problems after that. Now, from my perspective, OK, it's a different story.

12:24 If, if, if you replace my son with an adult, right, who can make things up, who can, whatever you want to do. But a 19 month old who you know has not a very, it's a very different situation, right? I mean, you can't, I don't think 19 month old kids can fake things. I don't even know if they're capable of that yet.

12:47 Yeah, they're just responding to what's in front of. Them exactly so I I mean I was I was just like I just couldn't I couldn't believe it. It was it was amazing. It was amazing what happened and I was just so grateful, you know, because it and really also had a realization of how all those things that we had that were hers, which were very difficult to get to let go of and get rid of because they're attached to her very special. We're doing so much damage to my family. So that's one of many stories of my experience of God. Well, I've got some questions around that. Are you ready for those?

13:31 So he was 19 months at the time, yes. Did you ask him what he saw? Yeah, my wife asked him what he saw and he basically said like a butterfly, but obviously it was it was a demon. It obviously probably looked that. I mean, I'm just, you know, guessing here, but it it obviously would did not look like a nice beautiful butterfly. Yeah, I wouldn't.

13:54 See in the world, did she like say so why is it scaring you? Is it, I mean, I mean, did she ask much more about it or or was his vocabulary limited to the you? You couldn't get much? More out, yeah. You couldn't get much more out of him. Yeah, he wouldn't be able to to answer that question in detail.

14:11 So how long had it been since your daughter had passed at this point? My daughter passed in 2021, so it was what, three years, 434 years? So I'm assuming that you guys were involved in things that were alternative spirituality then, and a lot of the things that were in that season of your life were sort of attached to your time with her. And so you held on to those.

14:45 I mean, is it something more than crystals? I mean, tell me about what? What what are some of these things you're talking about? Yeah, it was. It was crystals. It was like statues of angels that were made-up of crystals. It was like, we got this, they called it a magic wand. Like we got this piece of like wood that was petrified from a certain spot in Arizona that apparently was supposed to have some kind of magical powers on it or something. I mean, we were in, unfortunately in that space during the whole time where my, my, my daughter was in the hospital.

15:23 And so it was we were, we were, we thought that we were doing good. So we were there trying to bring all these things in to help, to help heal her. And it probably, unfortunately was doing the opposite. Yeah, I mean, you think. OK, there's a God of healing and there's a God of this that and the other.

15:40 Let's tap into every resource is probably what you're thinking that we can that might help our daughter. So my next question around this is what prompted you guys to like think that repentance or it's kind of like suddenly being obedient to God even though you were in this space, Is that something that your wife had? Had you guys already begun some sort of spiritual transformation during this time?

16:12 Yeah. And you are? Becoming awakened to the truth of alternative spirituality to Christ. Yeah. Yeah, let me back up a little bit. So my, I was kind of brought up in a house where my parents believed in God, but they both were raised Catholic, but they moved away from the faith. I don't really know why, but they did. And so they, they brought me up in a way where God was God was real.

16:40 God was a real thing. You know, we talked about Jesus during Christmas, but he wasn't talked about as the son of God. He wasn't talked about as, you know, the, the one living true God. And so obviously, you know, for me in that environment, it was sort of like, here's a there, there's a God, but you can sort of believe whatever you want to believe, you know, and, and that's OK with us.

17:05 And so then, you know, as, as growing up, the world does what the world does. And as I started to get older and older, just more of the world took, took a hold of me, you know, and I was the typical young college kid that was drinking 3 * a night and partying like crazy. And probably the farthest point away from God that I possibly could imagine. And really was very lost, like didn't really know what I wanted to do and was really only focused on, you know, career and, and building a career and all of these things. And so then I met my wife, We've been married 14 years and we both, when we both met, we started to kind of move into new age.

17:51 And that was influenced by, I would say my parents and her parents and other people around me because my, my parents are, are also have alternative spiritual beliefs. And there was a lot of that influence. And so we started to read books on meditation, we started to read books on lots of different things, and we just sort of felt like it was the direction we wanted to go.

18:20 I for a long time, I don't really know where these preconceptions came from. I mean, I guess it's just the world, but I just, I just had a lot of problems with with Christianity. I thought that the Bible was altered. I thought that it was all about mass control, all of these different things which are lies of the enemy. I know now.

18:42 And you know, to to be fair, did I actually do any real research into any of these things? I didn't, you know, I just believe them for whatever. Reason cultural commentary around it? Exactly. Exactly. It's not uncommon. Yeah, or. You know, the belief that you know all God is just about judgment and it's you know, you either go to hell or you know, you have to you, you have to follow exactly what I'm going to say kind of legalism, right?

19:08 And so, you know, as, as we I kind of grew in my 20s, my wife and I just got deeper and deeper into it. She, we were on a plane at the end of our time that we were working on cruise ships. We were on a plane back from Australia to the US and she essentially had a demon contact her. She was sort of in this place between sleeping and waking on the on the plane and was kind of in like a meditative state, whatever that is.

19:44 And she had this being start talking to her and it told her her name, its name. And it, you know, as as the enemy does, came as an Angel of light and came as representing as an Archangel. And, and so she believed it and they essentially started this relationship and. My wife essentially started channeling that's what they call it in in new age where you essentially allow a demon to take over your body. Some a lot of people manifest it in different ways. Sometimes it's just for my wife.

20:19 It was just going to kind of like this state and, you know, hear these, this, this end this being talk. Some people, it's actually the being like the the demon comes into them and they're like talking through them and like interacting with people. It's really it's very, very dark. And so she started doing this and we started having these sessions where we would ask these questions of this, of this entity and we would, we would get these responses, etc, etc. And we were literally living our life by this guiding force, which was a demon, which we did not know at the time. And the thing was, was that it was never dark. It was never, you know, go jump off a Cliff or go, you know, do something horrible to somebody.

21:09 It was always, you know, sort of I would now I think it was probably like 60 to 80% truth and 20% of a lie, you know what I mean? But it was, it was, it was, it was not, it was not directing us towards the Lord. And so, yeah, I think that really what happened was we had a wake up call when our when our daughter died.

21:31 You know, our daughter was born in 20 and we found out that she had a birth defect and we ended up having to deliver her premature early. And she was in the ICU for three months. And that was a very intense 3 months. It was super, super. Now that I went back on it, it was even more intense because we didn't have the Lord with us and it was just a struggle every single day. And we were, like you said, we were doing everything we know we could do to help her.

22:03 And so, you know, I think that there was obviously a lot of sin happening. I know that there's a lot of sin happening during that time. You know, we were contacting mediums and contacting these people who are apparently medical mediums who could see into her body and what's going on in there and tell the doctors how to fix it and all of this crazy stuff. And we, you know, our whole circle of friends basically essentially were in this alternative spirituality. And so we just relied on a lot of them. A lot of their, you know, they were, they would send us stuff. That's where a lot of this stuff came from that I told them that last story and it was just very dark. It was very dark looking back on

22:52 it. And so when my daughter died, I mean, obviously we were, we were wrecked. We were just wrecked. I mean, I remember the day after my daughter died, My, my, my wife couldn't even go to bed. No, I. Can yeah, she couldn't get out of bed for. Sure. And. I mean, honestly, even though we weren't with the Lord, I think the only reason why I got out of bed was because of Him, even though I didn't know him at the time, because I think he knew where I would end up.

23:18 And so that was just a really hard time. And we were searching, we were searching, we were searching. And my wife was raised Orthodox and she was like, you know what, I think I need to go back to church. And I was very resistant. She will tell you, I was very, very resistant. There was, Oh my, my wife did not believe that I could be saved.

23:43 She kept on praying, but she really didn't believe that it was going to happen. Because I was I, I just, this was my whole life. Like this was my, this was my upbringing. This is where I was. I also am Native American. So, you know, there's that kind of aspect of their the kind of these Native American spirituality beliefs that unfortunately are wrong too and are just not not of God. And a lot of them have been perverted to by by the world. And so I just was totally resistant to it. I was like, there's no way.

24:21 There's just no way that this is happening right now. And so, you know, it's like, it's not like I said don't go, but I, you know, she wanted me to go with her. And I was like, I'm not going. Yeah, but I'm. Not going no. Thanks. She is engaged a demon and is making herself available for this thing to speak through her and now is transitioning and saying I think I need to go to church.

24:45 What happened with her? I mean, that's a that's a pretty extreme. I mean, there's power, I'm assuming. I got a whole other set of questions around this channeling, so I want to come to that in a minute. But I mean she. Thinks and I, I agree with her. I, I think it has to do with our son, because when she, this happened when she got pregnant, So there was a time after my daughter died that we were just, we were just wandering like after somehow we lifted ourselves up out of the, the, the place.

25:15 I mean, my, my wife was in a place where she did not want to live anymore. Like that's where she was. And we just, we, we honestly do, we did what we did for a lot of a lot of our life was when things got really, really hard, we ran. And so our, our running is we love to travel. So we packed up all of our stuff, we put it in a storage unit and we said we're just going to go travel. And so we went to a bunch of different places. We went to Mexico, we did some ayahuasca, all this, which was probably even worse for us that I know. It was worse than, you know, we could have done. And we just were very lost.

25:52 And so then my, my wife got pregnant with my son and it was right after that where she was just like, I just feel this conviction where like, I want to go back to church. So I, I really feel that that God was, was moving and working through my, my unborn son and really convicting her to, to, to step back in. And then, you know, God works in incredible ways right after that.

26:19 She has a friend of hers who invites her to church and she decides to go one Sunday. I, I'm like, no, I'm staying home. I'm not going to, I'm not going to do it. And she went and she just came back wrecked. I mean, she just came back absolutely wrecked by the Holy Spirit and was just like, I, I, I needed this. I cannot believe that I've been away from this for so long. Like, this is where I need to have my focus. And yeah, I was still very, my heart, my heart was still very hard.

26:52 And, you know, just slowly but surely as the Holy Spirit works, I just kind of continue to work on me and continue to work on me. She finally got me to agree to go to church every other Sunday. I would go there with my arms crossed while they're worshipping and, and yeah. And then just, I just, he just continued to speak to me.

27:15 He just continued to speak to me. I just started to see, I started to just come out of the deception, which I am just so grateful for because when I now having the perspective that I have of living in the Kingdom and looking at where I was, I was in such a dark place in chains and I didn't even realize it.

27:35 And I think that's the most dangerous part about it is because I felt like I was a good person. I felt like I was doing good. I felt like I was, you know, like they say, you know, racking up karma, you know, I, I felt like I was just on the right path doing what I should do. Was I supposed to be doing? And what I wasn't realizing, like you were saying earlier, is I was I, we were leaving doors wide open for the enemy to come and do whatever they he wanted in our life. I'm.

28:02 Interested to know what happened in your wife. Do you think that when she got pregnant with your son that that was the thing that began to awaken her or did she some did some other thing take place? I mean this channeling thing where you guys recognize this now as a demon made himself apparent to her and she made it OK.

28:39 She came into agreement. She allowed this entity to it wasn't like it attached itself to her through trauma or other things like that. And I'm unaware of it and I need to get rid of it like Deliverance is. It was like, ah, I'm going to let you speak through me. Welcome. Did something awaken her to the hat? How did that?

29:01 How did she come out of that? That seems like a really tough thing to, I think it. Was the death of my daughter for sure. I think that was the catalyst because this demon kept on saying everything's going to be OK, you know, so on and so forth. And I think when it wasn't OK, when my daughter took her last breath, I think that that was kind of earth shattering for both of us. What did she?

29:23 Recognize this entity as What? Did she think she was talking to or channeling? She thought she was talking. To a he was masquerading as an Archangel named Metatron. And would she go into some sort of a, a trance like state or a meditative state and and then allow this thing to speak through her? It was.

29:43 Meditative. She didn't actually vocally speak. She more went into a meditation or whatever it was. He would kind of tell her things and then she would kind of write them down and share them with me or share them with other people. But I've seen other people channeling where it's what you're talking about, where they're actually inviting the demon inside of them and then they're actually the demon is speaking using their mouth.

30:12 But that's not what she was doing is this. Really happening? Or is this people who want this to happen and using their imagination to create something in their mind it's not real? Or was there power behind it? I think. There was power behind it. I think there was power behind it because we, I mean, it wrecked our life. It wrecked our life.

30:36 I mean, there's so many bad things that happened. There's so many things that were just, it was one after another after another. And a lot of it started when we were on that plane in Australia. I mean, if I look back on it in the trajectory of the things that have happened, I mean, it was, it all really started from there.

30:54 Yeah. I. Often try to look at the scenarios that we discuss on here from the eyes of people who just don't believe there's a such thing as anything spiritual atheist, right and and just like hey, so we don't believe in God. We also don't believe there's an A devil, right or demons. We don't believe there's anything spiritual. We are materialist.

31:22 It is what we what exists is what we see in front of us and what we can measure. And there is nothing beyond that. If, if I'm trying to represent that person here, I'm, I'm thinking because I'm trying to ask their questions. Yes, yes. I'm. Thinking that's just people wanting to tap into this fictitious higher spiritual thing and so they're using their imagination to create messages that they are then relaying or if it's actual channeling where they're speaking through them, they do it and they really get into character and allow their voice to change and other things like that. What's what's the argument against that? What, what is it that they're not seeing when they're just sort of making those

32:22 generalizations in in their viewpoint about what's going on there? What in your experience and in your wife's experience could you say this like, OK, maybe I can understand that, but here the feeling? Changes in the room. When you're in the room with someone who's channeling like, like tangibly, like you can feel the difference in the feeling in the room.

32:44 It feels like there's, there's, it feels like there's someone else there. We when even if it's like, for example, myself and my wife, if we were in the, in the in the living room or something, you, I could feel like there was a third presence there, you know, like, you know, like when you're sitting somewhere and someone is looking at you from behind you and you can feel that they're looking at you like that kind of feeling. I think that's one thing.

33:09 I think also another thing is that it was just the circumstances stancil things that happened in our life through through a lot of those things where even when this entity was channel was, you know, talking to my wife, like things would like drop on a shelf in the other room or just things like that. So just that presence.

33:34 I mean, I think for me it, I can understand that, that question from that perspective because I think if you don't experience it, it's very difficult to be like, yeah, I like, aren't you just making this up and that's. Really where we're going, right? And that's what we discuss here. And I try to get our guests to articulate ways, articulate the things in ways that we can.

34:00 We can give the skeptic something that they could grab on to rather than sort of dismissed in the air that it's like her voice changed. OK, well, I can change my voice. Sure, sure. Sure, that's. Not that's not spiritual, that's something that we can choose to do. And if we can find ways to do that, and often we do here is like, OK, well, if you haven't experienced it, it can be very easy to throw up a blanket over it and say this is what it is. And I think that's fair, right?

34:43 For for people who have opinions about things they haven't experienced, I would say realize that it's an opinion and try to have conversations or at least hear out the people with actual experience in these places. That's what people who don't profess Christ and think it's some sort of holdover superstitious thing and, and really snicker under their breath or overtly at Christians. But when you talk to a Christian who has experienced God, you realize they're just, they're, they're throwing darts at something that they can't see or hit because they just haven't experienced it yet.

35:30 And there's so many people that come on here that were those people throwing those darts. I was one of those. Who had an? Experience and like I'm telling you, I was you, I experienced them and it's not what you think it is. You should open your brain and open your eyes to the possibilities of that.

35:51 So I feel still have some questions around where you guys came from, how deep you were in. But you're talking about now doing things that you felt like you needed to do to get rid of demonic attachments that were associated with the items given to you in the season that your daughter passed. And when you did it, your little son who has the faith of a child. And I believe children can, are way more connected to the spiritual world than we are.

36:24 I think we callous ourselves over time, ourselves over time to the point where it's very difficult to do that until we once again re engage childlike faith. And and that's a whole nother conversation. So I have no doubt that your son, less than two years old, in a place in his home that he is familiar, suddenly see something that makes him terrified. And that that stayed exactly that way until you did things that are scripturally sound to sort of rebuke, rebuke, remove, repent from that.

37:06 And then he, as he said, all gone. I believe that I've seen that before and that's amazing. So tell me we we may come back to some of this darker spirituality just to get a better handle on it. But so tell me how God worked in you and brought you well. I think that he moved so powerfully through my wife and just seeing her in the way that she started to change because she started to shift. She started to just have this joy again, playing worship music in the house in which I first I was like, what is this? Yeah.

37:51 And you know, as, as we can see, as she continued to bring me to church, I just, I think that something clicked inside of me. And, you know, I think one of the most powerful things that started to happen when I was moving closer to being baptized was I, I work late at night. And so I, I come home from work at like 3:00 in the morning and I walk in the door that night.

38:20 And when I walk into the door, you can see my living room right from the front door and there's an egg shaped night light in the middle of the floor and it's my son's. And it was on. And it was kind of like changing colors like it does because it has like 2 modes, white and change in color changing. And so I was like, Oh my, my son must have left this on. So I go and I, I turn it off and I go back into the, into the bathroom and I come back out and the light is back on again. And like, I just I just turned this off, has this back on again.

38:56 And I feel like, you know, I was, I was, I was, you know, telling you about the feeling of how the feeling changes in the room. Like I got that feeling where like there was just like goosebumps on the back of my on and my hair was raised up and I was like, OK, so, you know, this was a few months into going to church.

39:14 I was just like, well, I'm just going to pray. Like, I don't know what else to do in this situation. So I prayed and I just said, you know God and like, please help me. And so now I want to, I want to preface this by saying at this time, this was probably a week or two after I even cracked open a Bible for the first time.

39:36 And so I don't know any of the Bible. I haven't read anything except for I think we were, I was reading like a little bit of Matthew or something. So in prayer, God says to me, Psalm 91, I don't know what Psalm 91 is, but for anyone who's listening who doesn't, is not a Christian, Psalm 91 is the spiritual warfare Psalm.

40:00 And so I, I find my Bible, I get my Bible out. I get goosebumps every time I tell this story and I read Psalm 91 and the light turns off by itself. What? Yeah, OK. And. I was just, I was, I had, I, I, all I could say was thank you. I just had no, I mean, I just felt like we, I had a couple experiences like this through my, through my time of coming to the Lord.

40:36 And I felt like he just knew like, you know, he, he meets us where we're at, like I was in this place where I and, and this is one of the reasons why Stacey, I believe that people that people who are in chains in new age, man, once they come to the Lord, they are just so such mighty warriors for him because of the fact that people who are in new age, their minds are open. They're not like the atheist that doesn't believe in anything.

41:09 They believe. They know that there is light and dark. They know that there is demons. They've seen it, they've experienced it. And so if they actually actually can come and be free in, in, in Christ Jesus and be be healed and be saved and then turn their, their, their direction and their focus on, on helping him build the Kingdom and, and being a part of that.

41:37 Yeah, that's, that's amazing because you're right, they are looking, they're actively pursuing enlightenment, right. They're actively pursuing higher spirituality that results in health and provision and prosperity and a lot of things that quite honestly, scripturally speaking fulfillment, right? It's all in scripture and it seems like, OK, all the, you know, rigid old people are Christians, so that's not the way.

42:16 So we got to do something different than those guys. So we're going to go find something higher than, you know, this sort of close minded, traditionalist, fundamental, super conservative, you know, religion that we've been exposed to. And so we're going to go find the real, so the broader sense. There's all kinds of religions.

42:40 And so we're going to raise ourselves above, you know, the Christianity side of things and and, and other world religions into a higher plane of spirituality. At least that's my perception and what I am encountering increasingly. We've had several people and that have been here recently that says all of that was a deception. Every bit of that was a deception and everything that I was ever really wanting in the 1st place was found in Christ. But way more than than than I I could realize and that not to put words in your mouth, but I bet they're similar words. And that all the things that blocked me from that were lies that I bought into.

43:38 You met. You had a line in the call. I wrote it down. You said God is not who I thought he was. And I love that. Can you elaborate on that? Yeah. Like I said, you know, I believe that God was just controlling. I believe that he was just, you know, that Christianity was being used for control. I believe that he was just, it was all about Hellfire and damnation.

44:10 And, and I didn't know the love of Jesus. I had no idea that this love that even today when I walk into church and start to worship, I start to cry every single time, you know, and I like that's just not normal. Like it's not something where I'm just like, I can't fake that. I mean, I guess you could try to fake cry, but I'm like crying. Like if you ask my wife, I'm on my knees bawling every time we go to church a lot and and and even in my car. I mean, and just feeling his presence and feeling the freedom because I was searching for freedom. That's what I was searching for.

44:46 I was searching for true freedom and I couldn't find it. I mean, I don't know if you've ever seen the movie The Matrix, but I felt like I was Neo at the computer just searching and searching and searching everywhere. I was looking for the answer and the answer is Jesus and I, I, I didn't know. And you know, not only that, but we know what the world does to his identity.

45:06 We know that he is the most ridiculed and made fun of, you know, being ever, you know, and he's the God of the universe and it's just it being in his arms and being free. I mean, there's nothing that can compare to that gift. There's absolutely nothing that can compare to it. And I am just, my life is completely transformed.

45:30 Like I said at the beginning of this conversation, if you knew me three years ago, I would be a completely different person than who I am. Not only in the way that I talk, the way that I walk, the way that I act. I mean, there was a lot of times where before I would say things or I would say that I was one way, but I was not that way.

45:48 I was speaking one way and I was living a life in a completely different way and I just am am not that person anymore because I feel convicted. I feel that he has given me such an incredible gift. And so now I get the honor of trying to share that with other people, trying to be the his hands and feet, trying to, you know, do everything I can to honor him. And I want to do that because I love him. And I the thing I feel now that the thing, the best thing that I can do in my life is be the best son to him that I possibly can, because I just can't explain.

46:29 Like I just can't explain that gift that he's given me a freedom in him. It's just beyond anything I could ever comprehend. And you know, he's put us through this. This is the season that we're in now is definitely a wilderness season. It's definitely been very hard. But you know, I just the the amazing, incredible things that he has done and continues to do is just unbelievable. I mean, his, his love is just amazing. I mean, for me, for someone like me who just was in all of this stuff, was not doing things that are were good with that. That was just when I look back at my life, I was like, I don't even know how I was living that way. And to have redeemed me, to have set me free, to have given me a new life again, you know, is

47:18 just, it's amazing when I have. Conversations with people, especially the transition out of New age, searching for spirituality involved and engaged and doing all this kinds of stuff. And they, they now speak like you're speaking right. They proclaim Christ. It's like, Oh my God, it was him all along.

47:45 It was Jesus all along, something that there was a moment of revelation. I call it the awakening. I say it all the time. I pray for that awakening to happen across the world. It's happening. He's answering our prayer and others. And I'm especially encouraged as I see people reaching out to us, being awakened from new age. Is there a a place that you can pinpoint a time, a moment where you believe the awakening happened for you? I think it was.

48:22 Cumulative, but I think a moment I can remember is I was in my car late at night. I've, you know, been driving late at night and doing Uber and it was a particularly difficult day. I don't think I was making a lot of money. I was really stressed out about just the whole situation that we've been in financially, all of these different things, all of these stresses.

48:45 And you know what? I just, I stopped and I just broke down and I just prayed and I was like, Lord, I, I can't do this anymore by myself. I can't do it by myself anymore. I've been resisting you for too long and it's just time for me to accept you to accept you as my Lord and Savior, to welcome you into my heart, to give you the reins, to give you the, the keys to the car and to step back and to let you, you know, number my number, my, my steps and guide my life.

49:18 And I, I just felt a relief. I felt like a huge burden and relief was just lifted off my shoulders that I've been carrying for way too long. And I was just crying and crying and crying. And that was I think the next day of the day after was when I said to my wife, I want to be baptized because she had asked me probably like a week before this or something because she had decided to get baptized.

49:40 And I was like, I don't know if I'm going to get baptized. I'm not sure about that. But then just something changed and that night I was like, you know what? I just, I can't do this anymore. I can't do it by myself. My way is not working. And thank God I did that. That is the surrender that people talking about.

49:59 It's truly relinquishing the guiding direction of your life to him instead of you. Yes, that's what that really is. Yeah, it's given it. It's hopping out of the driver's seat and jumping in the passenger seat of, of his car. Really. That's right. And and truly letting him guide you, You, you truly believe in him. John 316 Most famous Bible verse ever. Forgot to love the.

50:36 World. His only son. Whoever believes in him should not perish but have an eternal life. And and it's not just it is believed that he's the Son of God. Believe that he's real, but believe in him so much that you get in a moving car of life in the passenger seat and not behind the wheel. That's right.

50:59 And, and so that's what I think believe in me means. And when we take that step, I, I, I hear it often. It's the, it was the moment and it's a, it's a, it's a churchy word. I get it. It was that moment of surrender. And it's a, it's a tough thing for guys sometime to even say that word surrender.

51:25 But it's a, it's a truly saying, wait a minute, I've been God essentially my whole life. I didn't create the universe. I get that. But I, I, I'm the one making the money. I'm the one that got the job. I'm the one that proposed, you know, I, I'm responsible for the family here. And you know, I got to make decisions and I got to lead and all that stuff.

51:50 But, and it's not that you stop doing those things, but you do those things under the direction of God. So you still lead. You're just not God anymore. He's God. You let him be God. He's the brand, He's the vine, right? The trunk. You're just the branch coming off. You're not the trunk. That's right. You're not generating it.

52:16 When you recognize that's Him generating it, it's him doing it. It's him that's trying to give you guidance into a life of peace. All you got to do is obey Him and follow what He's he's showing you. Yeah. It's that moment at that is the moment of surrender, right? That's giving your life to Christ.

52:38 Yeah. That's a daily surrender for what I've experienced is every. Day waking up. And surrendering your life daily to him because you know, like you said, especially as men, we, we tend to try to take over the reins and want to do it our way and just surrendering that. I mean, one of my favorite scriptures is Matthew 633.

53:03 You know, first the Kingdom of God and all will be added to you. And you know, God, when I, when I do that, God does amazing things. I mean, another story. Last month we were like super short on our rent. There was like a, a week left before the end of the month and we didn't know what we're going to do. My my wife talks to a friend of hers. She asked my my wife how she's, how we're doing with money. My wife says good because she didn't really know what was going on.

53:33 And then my wife talks to the same woman like probably 3 or 4 days ago. So there's maybe a couple of days before the rent is due. And she asked my wife again what how we're doing with money. And my wife kind of found that odd, right? And why are you asking me again? But she said, oh, we're not doing that great.

53:51 And my wife, my wife's friend says, well, I'm going to pay your rent and give you give you the money that you need to pay your rent. Now, you know, that's great. And probably from, you know, an atheist perspective, they're like, OK, well, they were just being nice. Well, what we don't know is on the other side is that this woman wakes up and she is reading an axe about the fruit of the spirit. And one of the fruits of the spirit is giving. And she really feels that that was her. That's her gift.

54:18 So she actually called four or five different charities before she talked to my wife to try to give away this money that she had and they none of them picked up. And then she talks to my wife and Holy Spirit convicts her to ask my wife if she needs money and she gives her this money. And then a few days later my my wife's friend's husband has his boss call him and say we actually have a bonus for you and it's the same amount of money as she gave to us for the rent. For the lady, they gave it to you. Yeah.

54:55 I can't tell you how many times I've. I've watched that kind of stuff. Yeah. Happen. We see a, we see a fraction of it, yeah. But. There's stuff moving in so many different directions. We can't digest the genius of God, no. Not even. Close. No, we get a, we get a, a grain of sand of it and it blows our minds. But yeah, that's really, that's really cool. Really cool.

55:28 So you did the surrender thing. I did. And you feel like in that moment, you were changed. You were stressed about your your situation, and you exited that time no longer stressed about your situation or just with a great peace that ran through it. Yeah, I would. Say, yeah, I mean, I don't want to. I don't want to, you know, misrepresent and say that life is all butterflies and rainbows all the time with Christ, because it's not.

56:01 And that's not what he promises, but he does promise peace. And I feel that peace. I feel that peace all the time. I feel like you said, a piece that just runs through it, a piece be all on all understanding where even when you know, there's the craziness because we live in a fallen and broken world. So we're going to come up against diversity all the time in life.

56:20 It doesn't matter if what where we're at, right? But The thing is, is that I just have this piece, this piece beyond all understanding where doesn't matter what situation I'm in. And one of the things that has also really, I think transformed my life is prayer. You know, when I'm now, when I'm in situations which are difficult, that's what I do first, as much as I can.

56:43 I mean, I'm not a perfect person, so I don't do it all the time, but I, I, I go and I pray about a lot of things when things are not going right, when things are growing, going right. And, you know, again, surrendering, right, because being in a situation where, you know, I again, like, I'm the man of the house and I'm the one who needs to make the money.

57:04 And we're three days before we're supposed to pay the rent. And I have a 2 year old and you know, it's like I got to keep a roof over my, my family's head. I mean, for someone, you know, if I imagine myself in in the situation where I was before where I don't have God and I'm, you know, sort of in this place where I'm looking for him, but I'm looking in all the wrong places. And if I was in that situation, then because I have been in that situation, it's extremely stressful. And it's a just like out of out of my mind, like what am I going to do?

57:35 And when that situation happened, I just felt this piece and so did my wife. We just felt like, OK, something is going to happen. Like he is going to move. This is going to change and it changed and it's just, it still is just awe inspiring to me. I mean, like you said, he's just a genius. You could just, and you never know. I mean, that's The thing is I think a lot of people try to put God in a box.

58:00 I I'm even guilty of it sometimes where it's like, you know, do you know, why am I not believing that this can happen? Because anything is possible. I mean, if he can pay my rent, he can do anything, you know, I mean, and there's awakening. That that takes place for that to become your reality. Yeah, right. Yeah.

58:20 And you. You. And I have heard it, you've I have seen it that and you know, people have been healed in just miraculous ways. And all of these different things that are just not they're, they're not, there's no logic to them. You don't. And that's, that's, I think the beauty and wonderful wonder of God is that a lot of the times he's not logical. He does he our thoughts, our thoughts are not his thoughts. You know our ways are not his ways. Quote in scripture.

58:41 Now, you didn't know Scripture a couple of years ago. I did not. You cracked that open maybe once. That's good. No, it's an important piece to discuss, right? Is, is this whole idea that when you give your life to Christ, it doesn't mean that your circumstances are going to change and it's all going to get fixed.

59:03 What it does and what I can speak to and what you can speak to is that the stress associated with the unfavorable circumstances of life is greatly reduced. Let's put it that way. So if your stress level is at 95% in that time, the same circumstance, you'll find yourself at A at like a 10%, in my experience, like a 10% or 5% stress level because you know that your Heavenly Father kind of has your back here. You don't have to figure everything out. That's right.

59:46 He's going to put things before you that he's going to ask you to be obedient around. But you don't. Have to be the engineer. He's the engineer. You just need to comply and and kind of be the the laborer in his plan. And if you are that and are obedient. Even though you can't see it, it, it's going to happen. And once you get some muscle memory in on that, because right now we don't have it, it's hard to go from no faith to faith. You kind of got to take a step of faith and then experience God's fulfillment.

1:00:27 And once you do that three or four times, you're like, I'm not worried about that. Why aren't you worried about that? Does it make sense that you're not worried? Well, because I've given my life to God and in my past, I can look back and point to 5 or 6 different times just in the last month where I didn't see the answer either. And he just provided.

1:00:51 And so there's a, there's a peace that comes with that. That's it's the peace beyond all understanding. And it's what the world doesn't understand. And, you know, the skeptic can say, well, you seem to have a a streak of good luck in those circumstances. And I would say, yeah, call it what you want to.

1:01:06 I know what it is. And it's God and it's it's trusting him. It's having his laws now on my heart. And I just do my best to live in that in a way that is aligned with his way and, and be obedient. And if I were in control, I would be doing things differently. Yeah. If I were. In control. And I felt like I had to make things happen. I would be doing things differently right now. Right now, Stacy McCann's doing a stronger faith, yeah. Absolutely.

1:01:43 Well, you know, I think that's one of the, I think that's the biggest thing for me. That was the biggest deception for me when I was in New Age. Is that a lot of the alternative, you know, spirituality, it's all about the self. It's all about, you know, we are all, we are all God. You know, we make our own decisions, we we make our own pathways.

1:02:03 You know, we can manifest what we want to manifest these sorts of things. And I think that humbling of we are not God. And, you know, he is so much mightier and just knows so much better, you know, and that obedience factor, I think obedience is really important. And when I wasn't a Christian, I thought I looked at Christians and, you know, heard a little bit about obedience.

1:02:26 And I was like, what is this? You're like being controlled. Why, why are you doing this? But now that I am, and I'm a follower of, of Jesus, I realized that obedience is vital. And it's because if you, it's just like, if you think about it from a perspective of my son, if my son doesn't listen to me, you know, on things like don't run out in the middle of the road because you're going to get hit by a car. I mean, just like that.

1:02:54 And that's the same thing. And our father just wants the best for us. This is the reason why he's telling us to do these things. And I didn't. Have that perspective before I had no idea he is God. He knows the way it was designed to work. He's not trying to keep you under his thumb. In a. Submissive, controlling way.

1:03:17 He's he's showing you the path to fulfillment and, and, and peace and freedom and freedom. That's what obedience is. We we we get really guarded and triggered with that word obedience. Oh, you're not going to control me. It's not about control. It's about guiding you into the path that is the best thing for you by a long shot. Oh, yeah.

1:03:46 And so it's just it's love. It's for you, which is such a rich spiritual insight that the world tries to manipulate against God. Oh, yeah. And big way, it's just for your own good. If I could be in a helicopter and see the entire situation of traffic and you see a clear path, I said, Justin, turn around. Yeah, go another way.

1:04:15 I want to go this way. This is where my favorite, you know, gas station is and all this like, don't go that way, Go this way. Obedience is like, ah, he knows something. I don't know. I'm just going to do what he says because you're going to get stuck in traffic over here. This is totally clear and you don't know it, but there's a guy handing out $100 bills on the corner. So I can see it.

1:04:38 You can't see it. Because he is good. Because he is good. Because he is. Good. You know, that's, that's the most important thing. You know, I give money to homeless people all the time. And I don't say this to to say it or to be showy. What I'm why I'm saying it is because I give money to homeless people all the time that I get for tips and Uber. And I, I can't tell you how many times I've given someone a $10.00 bill and then an hour later someone gives me a $10.00 bill as a tip.

1:05:06 It happens all the time. And at the beginning I was like, I was not being a cheerful giver, you know, I was just like, I don't know if I I don't know if I should do this, whatever, thinking about whatever else. And now I don't. I just give it. Yeah, you know, because it's about that trust. It's about trusting Him, and in that, giving maybe very well be the thing that God uses to turn that person's life around.

1:05:32 Exactly. Exactly. I mean, this is the same thing with sitting in this chair. Like I told you, it took me, it took God was convicting me for a long time and I just kept on me coming up with excuses. And then he just said to me, you know, like you don't know who you're going to impact. You don't know who's going to listen to this, who's going to where that person is, what they're doing, you know, and who they're going to impact.

1:05:52 That's it, yeah. We, we have to change our posture on stuff like that. There's a lot of people who deliberately don't carry cash so that they don't have to deal with that kind of stuff or hey, no, they're just going to use it on drugs or whatever. They may, they may, but I think, I think Christians, if I'm honest in most cases should deliberately carry fives or ones or whatever else it is just so they can encounter people and show them love.

1:06:27 I agree. And show. Them love and be willing to pray with them and let them know that Jesus loves them and sees them and it. I'm not enabling you to get drugs. I'm showing you the love of Christ. And I do that. I, I, I keep certain denominations in my vehicle and on my person just in case I see someone like that. So I think that's a practice we should all do. I used to be just totally the opposite. Oh, I don't carry cash, you know, I don't do that, you know, And yeah, they're going to use it on drugs. I don't want to, you know, I don't know. Anyway, that's a that's a that's a whole nother discussion. I'm glad.

1:07:16 I'm glad to hear you. You do that. And and we don't do it necessarily out of our abundance either. It it we try to do it in times when there's not abundance. I do it. I try. To do it all the time, yeah, it's. Almost one of those deals that I think God says, I wonder if Justin's going to be obedient here. And when you are, he's like, I watch this, I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to smile on that obedience in about 10 minutes for Justin so that he knows that I'm watching and I'm with him and I'm proud of the way he is having generosity. And that's right.

1:07:48 And that's right. I think that's. How that works? Yeah, I agree. Tell me about your. Baptism my. Baptism, if I you were. Like anti, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know that you had this experience in the car and now you're like, maybe I will get baptized. Yeah, so I was. Like, all right, I said to my wife, I'm I'm going to get baptized with you on that day. And I was, I was excited about it. Actually, I was really excited about it. And so we got to church, you know, and it just, it just literally, I just felt like I was the most special person. I just felt like God orchestrated the entire day just for me.

1:08:24 Just everything from like our favorite worship songs during worship played like all three of them. It was just like just amazing. And then the experience of just being able to profess my faith and in in front of the entire congregation. And I felt like a different person when I came out of that water.

1:08:43 I really did. I just felt like so much freedom, so much joy, so much peace. And I just felt just so grateful to be in that, in that place at that time. And literally that the chain, like the chains were broken. I felt like this whole time that I was going through this experience, which was probably about a year or so of, of the, of the Holy Spirit working on me. I just felt like now that I look back on it, I can just see that the chains were slowly coming off slowly. The links were slowly being broken over that time. And I just felt like the, the baptism was the pinnacle of that.

1:09:21 And not to say that there's not things that I still need to be purified or sanctified from because there is there's lots of things, but I just felt like I was just back in the I was home. I was back home. Like that was the feeling. It was like coming out of that water. I just felt like I was home again.

1:09:38 And it was exactly where I needed to be. And you know, I there it is better to be in, in the in the House of the Lord for one day than 1000 somewhere else. So it was an absolutely amazing experience that I will not forget for the rest of my life. And then our pastor let me let me help baptize my wife, which was amazing as well.

1:10:02 So that was really, really incredible. And yeah, I, I'm, I'm just, I'm just so grateful to him in the way that he has orchestrated all this. And also the way that, you know, my wife and I are together in this as well. Because, you know, I, I can't imagine how it was. Well, I can't imagine because I have lots of family and friends who are not believers.

1:10:23 And so I can, I can, I know how difficult that is, right? To have people who are really close to you who are not, who do not, you know, believe. And so, yeah, it's just amazing the way that he orchestrated everything and how it all came together and just just the perfect, perfect way that I couldn't even make better myself.

1:10:45 There's no way I could have. You actually had a tangible feeling coming out of the water and then that day that wasn't, you feel like was beyond just sort of an emotional response to the the environment around you, but you felt like there was some additional freedom that took place there and then.

1:11:03 So how did it progress after that? I. Because this is this is a right around the time I think you sent the video in I just. Had a hunger for the word. I had a hunger for the word. I just wanted to read all the time. I wanted to no more. I started listening to worship music in my car. I mean, that's pretty much all I listen to these days. And it's so interesting because I'm a big music lover. My wife and I, one of the first things we connected on is we love old school hip hop.

1:11:31 So that's what we connected on at first when we first got married. And I, I, I don't even listen to any of it anymore. I literally just listen to worship music and I love it. And I just just slowly started to progress. And also, you know, I think one of the things that God is a genius at is the way that he's designed and created the church, you know, and this community of people. You know, like I said, we've been going through a wilderness season and gosh, the, the, the, the, the people that I've encountered, the connections and the relationships that I've created, the way that people, that God has blessed us through people in the church and the generosity that people have shown and just going out of

1:12:11 their way to talk to us, to even even people that meet us for the first time is just, it's unbelievable. I mean, you know, I, I, I can't say before that I really knew or had people in my life that were like that. And there's a difference. You can just see the difference and it's that light of God. You can just see the light shining through the, the, the people that were around us, the people who we came into relationship with.

1:12:40 And then I started going to a small group at, at church and that has been incredibly powerful. And it's a men's group. And just to be able to be in a room with men who are of, you know, have been walking with the Lord for a long time. You know, I found some mentors there. I really feel like I just again, that feeling of being home, that feeling of being exactly in the place that I'm, I'm supposed to be.

1:13:08 And just really, I think he, he was continuing, he continues to work on the deepening of that faith and of trusting him. Like we were talking about before in everything about surrendering every part of my life. I, you know, I think that that's something I've really been focused on very intently over the last six months or so is really about how am I surrendering every single aspect of my life to my marriage, to my business, to my finances, all of these different things. So it's not just this, that's, it's, that's, it's not just I'm baptized.

1:13:46 Hey, Lord, I, I'm giving myself to you. I've surrendered myself to you and that's it. And then go back to the ways that I was doing things before because I can't do that. And so, but then being very specific about that, what's interesting about that, that story of getting our rent paid is right before that, my wife was like, you know what, I think we need to surrender our bills to the Lord. Like I think we need to specifically in prayer, surrender our bills.

1:14:09 Like, Lord, these are not our bills. These are your bills. You're going to figure out how to pay them. We're giving them to you. And then that happened, you know, And so I think for me, that's really important is to be very cognizant of that because as someone who's type A is someone who's, you know, let's go get it, let's figure it out, let's hustle all of these different things. I think that I really have to like be very obedient and checking myself and making sure that I'm turning to him and staying focused on him.

1:14:39 And, you know, he's had to humble me sometimes too, you know, but I feel like the deeper I really, really, I really try to embody Matthew 633. And it's like, how much am I actually focused on the Kingdom first, him first in my day, in my thoughts, in all of these things, How am I acknowledging him? And, and then everything else becomes, gets added, you know, and you know, like I was talking about in this season that we're in, you know, it's like that, that piece, you know, of just like I honestly, I've, I'd be totally honest, like I'm the happiest that I've ever been in my whole life. And if you look at my, my life from a, from a worldly perspective, we're struggling like we're not doing that great. But if that's not how it is, you

1:15:32 know, there's lots of laughter in my house. There's lots of joy, there's a lot of gratitude. And it's all because of him. It's all because of him. I love what you. Said and asking you how it's progressed from there. And you got this sudden hunger for the word right. And you also began to just have this desire for worship music when it was really repulsive to you before. And you know, it's like you never listen to that old stuff anymore because it's like I can only listen to so much before. I know I got a pump worship music back into it. It's it's a there's a great scripture that says draw near to God and he'll draw near to you and we and another great scripture of John 17 three is

1:16:13 this is eternal life that they know you the one true God in Jesus Christ who he have sent and another one where Jesus says, you know, everybody says, well, I did all the works right. I did these things. I spoke in tongues. I did this and he says get away from me. I never knew you. And so we think, OK, we've got to really strive to know God. And I would say that's not what I think Scripture is teaching. And I think your illustration proves that out. You just drew near to God.

1:16:50 You just decided to seek God. You decided to turn it over to him and and these other, these other things happened, right? He says, Ah, you just turned to me, Justin. So now I'm going to help you know me. I'm going to help you know me by putting a desire in you to consume my word. When you consume my word, you consume me, and so I become a part of you.

1:17:20 You know me now wasn't like he was like, we'll see If Justin's going to strive and get to know me. It's like, no, you turn to me. Good. I'm going to I'm going to help you know me. I'm going to put this desire for worship music in you so that you know me. It's it's it's he. He bridges the gap from not knowing him to knowing him.

1:17:46 He bridges the gap. That's right. Which is. Really an incredible and beautiful thing. He's not sitting in judgement as to whether or not you've done the right things. He's saying, hi, you just turned to me. You relinquished you, you drew near to me. I'm going to draw near to you and, and, and bring you in through these things. And those things happened to me.

1:18:08 How's the Jesus follower and and a consumer of the word that after I got a just insatiable desire for it and just read it through and read it through and read it through and every time it's just like you know, is it it was life is life, but I could not get on board with worship music and as I got to know him.

1:18:34 I am that way now. I have many genres of at my age, I've I've experienced a lot and that were just filled with vile stuff that I just I I will listen to a song from that now and be like that is so repulsive and I can only and I I listen to secular music too, right. I mean. You can't tell. Me that, that blue sky from The Allman Brothers band is not a, a heavenly sounding song or, or, or, or whatever else it may be, right?

1:19:16 And, and my wife and I are similar in old school hip hop and stuff like that. We'll, we'll connect on those kinds of things every now and then too, but I can only go so long without I, I, I popped something in the car the other day and I, I forgot it was Steely Dan or something like that. And I love Steely Dan too.

1:19:33 And that's just another one. I and I listened 3 or 4 songs and it was great. And it was like, all right, I got to go back to Jesus music real quick, right? It was like I needed, I needed feeding, right? And there was something about it and the atmosphere changed. And, and I think that's just God saying you're not on your own as it relates to knowing me. I'm going to give myself to you because you have given yourself to me.

1:19:57 I'm going to pour my spirit into you and then you start doing things that are. That are generous, that are kind, that are peaceful. And then you look in Scripture and say, oh, that's the fruit of the Spirit. That's right. I don't have to be peaceful. I don't have to work on myself, control and my generosity or gentleness. I just have to pursue him.

1:20:27 The fruit of the spirit. I don't produce the fruit. The spirit produces the fruit. I just connect to the spirit. It's the vine in the branches. Yeah. My job as a branch isn't to produce the fruit. My job as a branch is to stay connected to the vine. You're right. Vine produces the fruit through me. Yes.

1:20:43 Apart from him, the vine I can do. The branch can do nothing. That's right. And so we don't have to. It's not this magical formula we got to figure out. It's striving. It's just connect to him. Yeah. He just wants a. Relationship, that's the thing you know and and he'll. Force His Spirit into us, and through US He will. He will and he just like I said, you know, I, I also think that too, you know, I'm not a perfect person. I sin that there's times where I do things that I, you know, I shouldn't do.

1:21:13 I slip up, whatever it is. And again, that relationship, it's like I go back to him and I repent and I apologize and I turn from it, right. And it's, but it's about, it's about that relationship. He wants that, you know, he did before and when I didn't know him, sin didn't even bother me. It didn't even really, you know it.

1:21:35 I could sleep at night, you know, and now it's like if something happens, I just, I'm like, Lord, I'm, I'm sorry, Like, I don't know what I was. I don't know what I was doing. I wasn't focused on you. I need to refocus on you, you know, but it's about that relationship, you know, it's like I always think about my son, you know, and being a father, you know, it's like if my son does something, I don't want him to run the other direction and to not come and talk to me about it. I want him to come.

1:22:01 I want to help clean up his mess. I want to comfort him, you know, and so and that's the amazing thing and he just turns it. I mean, even that's the amazing thing is over and over again. Even when I'm in those situations, he cleans up my messes. He turns it into good. It's it's just incredible. It's one. Of the best things for men who desire to be a good dad for their spiritual walk is when they are looking to be a good dad, Watching themselves make decisions on how they want to raise their child and when they do it well, and then getting the aha moment of flipping that and recognizing themselves as the child.

1:22:45 God is the Father wanting to give you good gifts. Why discipline me, God? Because you see something I don't and you are trying to set me up for success. Oh, I get it. It's one of the best things that as parents, I think that comes from parenthood. It's when we flip that and recognize God is the parent.

1:23:07 I agree the best parent you could imagine that most loving parent. I want to kind of revisit something here that I think is important. A few things. You guys were actively pursuing spirituality that was not of God. So when we think about living our lives not turned to God, with him, not in front, it's like it's going to be better when you turn to God. That needs to happen.

1:23:39 There's another level or another thing going on where you intentionally turn to spirituality. That's not God. God describes himself as a jealous God. If you look in the Old Testament times as the Hebrew people were emerging from Egypt through the wilderness time and into the promised land, one of the things that God warned against was taking on the idols spirituality of the people that they were. That's one of the reasons they kind of had to eradicate them. It was like when you bring that stuff in, that is an abomination to me.

1:24:21 You are you are replacing me with made things. So that's a that's a thing You got to do some work sometimes around to completely break free from you can turn to Christ, become a follower of Christ and experience that peace. All fine and well, but you are very likely dragging a bunch of crap with you still. That's right that you need freedom from. Have you guys addressed that or do you intend to address that? Have you thought about OK, we were connected to a demon that was speaking through us.

1:25:07 We were had a shrine of crystals around our our, our daughter. We and I don't know what else, you know how, how involved you might have been. Have you addressed that? Well, I think. That that experience that we had where we repented on our knees and we had this demon leave, I think that was part of it. I think that it's a continual process. I think that we try to, you know, I, we've, my wife and I have repented many times for, for these things. And we, I also, I, I pray a lot about just revealing to us what else we have to sanctify.

1:25:44 I think that this entire wilderness season has been about this for us, you know, which really started right after we came to Christ. And it's just kind of been a purification season of really, because I had a lot of idols before I, I knew Christ. I idolize money, I idolize business, I idolize people, you know, and I think it was really about stripping all of that away and making me really focus on him and being grateful in whatever situation that I'm in that I'm in and just really acknowledging him.

1:26:19 And so I think that that's an ongoing process that we continually the focus on. I also think that we've had a lot of experiences in church, in worship, where things have been lifted off of us, where the Holy Spirit has, you know, baptized us and fire. And we've really been able to find an even the next level of freedom or the next level of the chains being broken. But I don't, I think it's a continual process. And I definitely think about it.

1:26:48 I think about it a lot, Yeah. It is, you know, I just, the further I get in and the more I study Scripture and just have conversations around this. I, I think a healthy thing for us to do is to go back and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal things to us. But maybe we'll like a pen and paper and, and like, because sometimes things will come to mind for me that I haven't thought about in decades.

1:27:23 That person, that thing we did, that thing I saw or, or or whatever it may be, this thing that happened when I was a kid. I didn't think any, but what, what was that? And, and ask the Holy Spirit to and he's revealing those things to me now. And when he's doing that, I'm like addressing it with him. I'm going in and, and just recognizing what it is right. So Scripture teaches us to confess our sins, even things so we didn't think was a sin and when when we were involved in it, even things that might have happened generations before us. You know that, that we can step in, take spiritual authority in that bloodline and confess, repent of break ties with whatever might have been associated with that to gain further freedom.

1:28:31 It's not like our salvation's at risk. We've trusted Christ, we're with him. But I think around things like, you know, lingering physical ailments or things that I've had since I was a kid that like, man, my, my vision, right? Is that something I inherited and it's just a medical thing that's common or whatever?

1:28:54 Or could that have been associated with something spiritual? Yeah. Absolutely right. I think I, I I think about struggling financially. I think that is a thing that that could be very well spiritually rooted is like, OK, God, show me where, what, what are things that I need to not just live with or keep kind of have I'm I'm past that.

1:29:23 That was that was years and years and years ago. I'm way past that. I'm moving forward. I'm pursuing Christ. That's all good and well. It's like, but why? Why don't we go back to that area of the rug over there that still got a little lump in it, Peel that back and expose it, confess it, repent from it, detach ourselves from anything spiritual that might be attached to it. Ask for the Holy Spirit to heal, whatever that is and whatever may still be confining us From a health perspective, from a relationship perspective, from an anger perspective, from a financial perspective, from a career perspective, from a ministry perspective, whatever it why can't we seem to get past this hump?

1:30:10 Maybe I need to go back and do a little inventory, house cleaning, repentance, deliverance, and get rid of any ties, attachments, spiritual assignments that were associated with those things. I would have never believed in anything like that before. OK, but as I'm as God brings me further into His ways and I look back even into Old Testament and and it's not that I'm attaching to the old covenant.

1:30:48 No, yes, Christ is the one who paid for those sins, but we can confess them. New Testament tells us to confess our sins, to seek forgiveness, to repent. And so I just think that's a thing to do. And hey, we got deliverance ministers that are prayer partners of ours. I would encourage anyone, you, your family, I have people that have been guests on here that call me and say, Stacey, I, I really want to get into more of a praying ministry situation. I wanted, I want to go find whatever it is that may still be attached.

1:31:29 I want to go through deliverance, be like, great. I want to connect you with one of our prayer partners. I think that's I do this. And so, you know, I think about new age people especially. Oh yeah. New Age. People especially because you're not just living for the flesh like you know the rest of us sinners, right? You may be, but there's a time, by your own admission and everyone I've talked to, that you sought spirituality that's not of God.

1:32:05 And when we seek spirituality, that's not of God, we're seeking spirituality that is the enemy of God, the other side. It's like I'm. Partnering with the enemy. Maybe I need to do some work on that that and maybe y'all have done it and maybe you're doing it now or whatever. I just, I and it might not be for you, it's just I want to encourage people, yes, turn to God, yes, no, Christ.

1:32:30 I think there is additional freedom available when we don't just move past those things in our pursuit of God. And it's not that we want to focus on them, but when we address them, when we go back and say, Holy Spirit, show me. Show me where in my childhood did I get exposed to things that could have been a demonic opening?

1:32:58 Show me. I want to know. And I want to confront it and address it when I was in college, doing all the crazy stuff that I did in college, the stupid, stupid stuff, terrible decisions. Bring that to mine. And it's like, oh, that car ride. Oh, that fraternity party. Yeah, I forgot about that 3:00 AM thing at that bar.

1:33:28 And he brings those things to mind that you hadn't thought about in a while. It's like he's saying, let's, let's let's deal with that because I've got new freedom for you. That that more. I think that's very. Scripturally true, I think, You know, if you look at a lot of the letters that Paul wrote to, to the churches, you know, I mean, he says throughout all of that, even Paul, you know, I have a thorn in my side.

1:33:50 I still have, you know, paraphrasing, but I still have things to work on, you know, and absolutely. And yeah, the, the Lord does that to me all the time. Like I'll be driving or then I'll just think about something or someone like 1520 years ago. And it's like, I haven't thought about that person in probably a decade and a half.

1:34:08 Why am I thinking about this? And it's because of that. And at the beginning, I don't think I acknowledged it as much. But now I try more and more to even in that moment, if I can, you know, pray, repent, you know, ask for forgiveness, confess that, you know, I'm sorry, Lord, that that happened, that I did that, you know, I was wrong, You know, And I think the important thing that I want people to know though, is that like one of the things that I had a big problem with was this whole idea of sin. You know, when I wasn't, when I was a new age and I felt like it was like shameful and all of these different things. But you know, it's, it's not, it's like the, The thing is, is that like, it's separating when

1:34:47 you're, when you don't have a relationship with Christ, it's separating you from God. And like you said, you know, people in new age, they are, they're, they're, they're trying to find God. That's what they're really trying to do. And they don't, they just don't realize that there is not a third pathway to God.

1:35:04 There is either. There's God and there's the enemy. And that's it. There's only two teams. And, and that's the biggest deception that the, that the enemy, you know, does in, in that, in that when that walk is, Oh, there's some kind of third way that you can get to, to the father. And I just think that it's, it's, it's just like, like you're saying, well, let's, let's just get rid of this.

1:35:29 Let's, let's, let's move this out of the way. Let's, let's sanctify this, let's purify it. Let's let it go so there can be more freedom. Yeah. And I. Think that's that's that's for people who have stepped into the walk a little bit further right. That's if if you're a new Christian, then certainly we want to we want to do that.

1:35:46 And I don't I don't want you to say, Oh gosh, I didn't know I just had this great experience and I feel the peace of Christ and you tell me now I got to go back and rehash all my sins. Like no, that's not what I'm saying. But there gets, I've gotten to a place I think now where it's like I want to be the best version of myself.

1:36:09 Forgot it I can be. That's right. And sometimes we hang on to things because they're comfortable and familiar. And I think there are things from our past that we just assume not dredge back up again. And we just leave those things there and move forward and let's move on and it'll be OK. And if there is additional freedom is if there is additional healing that can take place that God wants for us, that we can open that door and drag those boxes out of that closet that we've kept clothes and had intended to keep clothes and say, no, let's deal with this. You know, there's, there's rats in here. Let's get them.

1:37:00 All out. We don't need to. Keep the box in the closet and healing, I believe, comes from that as well. I mean, like physical healing, not just emotional and spiritual healing, but I think there may be some, you know, physical maladies that people have carried with them that have manifested in their bodies.

1:37:20 I agree, that are attached to something they haven't dealt with. And so ask Holy Spirit to show you, let him show you repent and and get freedom from it. I think it's good. What are some truths that you understand now that you didn't understand back then? That if somebody is right now where you were three or four or five years ago that you could reveal to them?

1:37:58 It's like, hey, I tell younger people this is like, OK, I'm here. I am you 30 years from now when I talk to college students, OK, I'm telling you, I want to. I want to, I want to shed some light on something that you don't realize. I'm I'm you 30 years from now. I'm I'm shouting back to the past to give you a warning to make you aware of something. Is there stuff that you would share that might be a warning or awakening or something that they just or in the middle of and they just don't understand what it is? I would just.

1:38:34 Say that the enemy comes as an Angel of light. I think that's the most and that's something I think a lot of people don't realize. And I think that a lot of a new age, there's this desire to, like I said, find God, connect, connect, connect. And I think that people don't realize how easy it is to open up a door to things that they don't want to open up a door to. Just like your guest the other the other week talking about his drug experience and how that opened up a portal to a place that he has no desire to be now, you know, thank God that happened to him because it made him and God made him the way he is now.

1:39:18 But I think that that's something that a lot of people new age, they don't, they don't realize and, and, and it's, you know, they think of, they think of darkness as, you know, bad things. And. It's just, it's not that way. And I can see it so clearly now. And just like I was telling you off air about the woman, that woman that I met in Uber the other night and we just had a great conversation. And she's sort of in the same situation where she's, you know, in new age and doing yoga and all of these different things. And she's realizing, she's realizing like she, you know, I could see in the spirit of the chains that she had on her. And she literally said to me, I feel like I'm in chains. And I think that that's just

1:40:04 such an important thing for people to realize is that it's, it's just that's it's binding them and. I just, I, I really was just searching, like I said, for God and for the freedom that he provides. And you know, man, I just look at back and I just say, man, I wish I had had. I wish I had known this like 20 years ago. Yeah.

1:40:26 But at the same time, you know, God knew the whole plan. He knew the whole plan. He knew from the moment that I was born until now, and He knows until the moment I die and after that for eternity. And so again, I have to trust Him and know that everything that happened, happened for a specific reason. That's part of his plan.

1:40:46 I also think that like, like I said on the phone to you, God is not who I thought he was. And I think that that's one of the things that a lot of people just have all of these misconceptions that culture and the enemy have put in their head that are lies. And I would just invite people to do some real serious, true expiration of Jesus and who he is and his word. And listening to you and your podcast is one of the one of the reasons why I had my open mind.

1:41:20 I also read A Case for Christ. And that was incredibly good because I'm also a very logical intellectual person. And so I had, like I said at the beginning, a lot of those questions about, you know, how is the Bible not altered? How is it not used for control, all of these things. And you know, you crack open that book and that man.

1:41:41 Exhaustive. Search and it's just things that are undeniable. So he's got several. Case for faith, The one that really struck me was a case of her creator. I don't know that New Agers would be in debating that much as as much as atheist would, but the case for Christ is really good. We shovel. It's so.

1:42:01 Good. It's so good and I think it opened, it answered my logical questions to open my mind to the experiential, you know, and well, he was an. Atheist, right And, and his eyes were opened and he he did the research. He was not only an atheist, but I believe he was a reporter investigative. Reporter. Investigative reporter, which that's his job, trained to dig for the truth and as an atheist.

1:42:25 And so to have someone like that convert after digging for the truth as an atheist to convert, that's a, that's a powerful statement. And he's a, he's a powerful agent for the Kingdom. He's kind of the a little bit of a modern day Paul in, in some regard, in that way. But no, those books are really good.

1:42:45 I love, I love all of those. What's life like now? How's it different? I think like I said, you know that piece be all beyond all understanding having that is and just having never feeling like I'm alone. I think that's one of the things I think one of the things that I felt a lot before I knew the Lord was that I was alone and I don't feel like I'm alone now, not only in my relationship with him. First and foremost, I really look forward to praying even in my busy life.

1:43:21 I wish I had more time to pray, but I really love praying and just being in the presence of the Lord regardless of where I am. You know, and I think, you know, you're asking before what are the truths? I think one of the other misconceptions that I think people have when you're not walking with Christ is this idea of church. And that church is a building.

1:43:40 And it's not a building, you know, it's it's all of us that are believers. And I think that that's just so different for me in terms of not only my relationship with him, but also just being able to reach out to the the people that I've come into relationship with through Christ. Having people that can pray for me have be praying for people.

1:44:05 I love praying for people. I mean, that's that actually brings me more joy than someone praying for me and getting that opportunity and, you know, just being in a place where I don't really feel like I have to figure it all out, you know, where I think that it's kind of like. It's kind of like. The idea of like struggling and always having your focus on making a dollar and where is the next meal going to come from and all of those things.

1:44:37 And you know that take when you're in that place, it takes all of your focus, right? You can't focus on anything else except for that. And I feel like the Lord broke that out of me. And now I can actually focus on Him. I can focus on my relationship with Him. I can focus on being obedient to Him. I can focus on being deeper in intimacy with Him. And out of that comes what we talked about before, the fruit of the Spirit.

1:45:08 And it's just changed my life. It's really just changed my life. You have a North. Star now it's it's a guiding point. It's the thing that you recenter around on a daily basis in the midst of all the other activities that you have to deal with. And it's like, OK, there's there's the one thing necessary, right?

1:45:31 It's not that you're going to discontinue the other activities. They're just going to be anchored around the North Star, that the main thing. It's like keep the main thing the main thing while you're doing other things like paying bills and raising a kid and being a husband and all that stuff. Yeah. All that.

1:45:51 Stuff. It centers you, it anchors you. It's a foundation. Yeah. Then again, I'm not a. Perfect person. Do I do it all the time? I don't, but I really try because I know that when I do, my life is better, my day is better. Yeah. What is your? What is your daily spiritual walk like? I mean, what do you do on a average day as it relates to keeping that center?

1:46:16 I typically. Try to pray the first thing that I wake up. Now, I'm not, I'm not like your. I remember a guest from like a year ago who said she she spent an hour and a half in bed worshipping before she got out of bed. I wish I had that kind of time, but I don't. But I, I definitely the first thing I do when I wake up is I pray.

1:46:35 And then typically for me, because I have a little one, I usually spend about an hour in the middle of the day reading my Bible and I just getting into the word. And I usually pray again after that. And then my wife and I pray together before I go to work, typically in the afternoon. Do you every single day.

1:46:57 That is rare. Yeah, in this world, every day. That is. Powerful. Yes, it is. That is. Powerful. If there is a practice that I would recommend to people who are married, it is praying together. I agree on a daily basis, that should not be a weird thing because there are people listening to oh, right now they're like, these guys might be pushing a little far right now.

1:47:23 I'm not going to pray with him or her, but for those people who do, it's a whole different ball game in the marriage anyway. Continue. That's that's really cool. I didn't expect that, but that's good. It's very. Good. It's very good. And what's amazing is my one of my son's first words was Amen. And he loves to pray.

1:47:44 He asked me to pray all the time, which is just awesome. And then I pray before I go to sleep every single night. And I mean, and then there's, I mean, it's just honestly, it's a constant conversation. I'm always praying, I'm praying for people, I'm praying when I'm in the car because I spend a lot of the time in the car working. It's just always a constant conversation. You know, the Lord speaks to me through Scripture that, that kind of experience with Psalm 91 that's continued. I get, I get scripture and prayer, which, you know, how do I know it's from him?

1:48:18 It's because when I open up the word, it's exactly what I was asking or talking about before. And it's the answer to that question. I mean, it's not just some random thing about some war that happened in the Old Testament, you know? So yeah, the. Enemy's typically not going to send you to scripture, Yeah.

1:48:33 No, he's not. So yeah. And I just, I really try to just always come back to, to him in every situation that I can and, you know, take him with me. He's in the driver's seat all the time, even, and sometimes I try to get back in the driver's seat, but then I stop myself. But you know, I, I, I really tried more and more.

1:48:57 And I find that, like I said, the more that I spend time with him, the more that I put him first, the more that I see the fruits of the spirit and the more that my life is changing. And now I've really been convicted to, to just share, to share. That's why I'm here. That's why I try to share with other people.

1:49:16 It's not, it's not easy all the time, but I'm trying to force myself to get better at it because it's what we're all called to do as believers. And I, you know, it's like, I found this freedom. Why don't? Why would I not want to share it with everyone I possibly possibly could? Because. In this world, with everything that we have going on in this fallen and broken world, I believe that people need this, need this freedom more than ever before.

1:49:44 He's doing a. Thing he's he's awakening people. There's so much going on now they're Bible sales are crazy up. Gen. Z turning to God in mass Yeah, New Agers coming out. You're watching it happen. There's a he is revealing himself and people are experiencing him now. Makes you kind of look a little more macro what's going on here, you know, from a, you know, biblical perspective. And we'll let other people answer those questions and speculate there.

1:50:27 And but I think these are big the beginnings of the sort of the signs of the times his return, which I think is an amazing thing to consider. You know, you experienced him as he walked you out of places where you were attached to his enemy. You had a transformation. You're speaking from a much more mature place spiritually.

1:50:54 You're quoting scripture. I don't. I mean, for somebody who's pick cracked the Bible less than two years ago for the first time, it sounds like that's that's pretty remarkable that somebody who's consuming it a lot in all of that. How are you experiencing God now differently than than than is is?

1:51:14 Are you still feeling like you're experiencing him? Oh yeah. Every day, every day I feel like I'm experiencing him. I feel like it's a deeper, deeper level, a deeper intimacy. I feel that I, my, my connection with him is clearer in, in prayer. I feel like before at the beginning, I, I just wasn't like the, the, the, the answers of the, the connections that he that I would have with him more. It wasn't as clear or it was kind of hazy or foggy. And that probably was because of all this, you know, all this baggage and all these things that I was taking off of me, you know, and now I feel like it's much clearer. I feel like, I think I, but before even at the beginning of my walk with him, I feel like he

1:52:08 there was, there was times where I would still go into a place where I was nervous or scared or fearful and I would stay there for a long time or the way that the enemy would really get me. A lot of the times at the beginning, it was psychologically like my brain would just start to go into really dark places very fast and it would take me a long time, sometimes days to get out of that place.

1:52:34 And I feel like now when, when that happens, when, when the enemy comes at me, I know it, I can see it, I can recognize it, and I know that God is greater. And I run to him and I turn to him. And that doesn't last very long, maybe a couple minutes, maybe 30 minutes, something like that. So I feel that I'm, I feel like that, that I'm closer to him and. He.

1:53:04 I feel like he's revealing things to me, like you said before about, you know, the past and also what I'm supposed to do, you know? He. Has confirmed to me through several different people lately that I am supposed to evangelize. Like that is my, that is what I'm supposed to do. And so, and The funny thing is, is that that's one of the hardest things for me to do because for a long time I've had this fear of fear of man's opinion.

1:53:31 You know, that's just the best way to say it. Well. So. You just took a. Pretty big step out into that today, I can tell you. That's good. So yeah. I mean, and it's just amazing the way that those confirmations have happened that, you know, have just come through multiple people. So yeah, I just, I have to be obedient.

1:53:48 That's it, you know, because, you know, again, like, like reaching out to you and, and doing the video and then being sitting in this chair. I don't, you know, I don't know how God is going to impact someone who's listening to this either, you know, 5 minutes from now or three years from now and just have to be obedient because my desire as his son is when I meet him in person that he says to me, well done, good and faithful servant. That's the only words that I want to hear. Yeah.

1:54:20 Well. You're definitely on the path to that, I can tell you. And you know, I would say you're exactly right. Be obedient to what he is calling you to do, especially when it doesn't look like it makes sense. Especially when you can't see how this is going to work. That happened to me. I couldn't see how this was going to work.

1:54:51 Made no sense. Thought this was just a little project I did in an interim season, like a couple of month window and he did a thing and pulled me, pulled me into something that did that made absolute that I aggressively fought against. So, and I don't know where it's going to go from here, but I can tell you I don't know that I should be acknowledged for being obedient.

1:55:31 I feel like he almost made it so I couldn't not be obedient. Talked about earlier how we need to know him. Get away from me. I never knew you. This is eternal life. They know you, the one true God, and how the truth of that is that God is the bridge to knowing Him. He, he, he, He gives you the bridge to know. So once you draw near to him, I think this is the same sort of thing.

1:56:06 He had fulfillment in store for me through this work that he almost gave me no choice and because it was going to be so fulfilling for me and I didn't know it and I could not make sense of it. So from somebody who's done this for about 6 years now and I don't know if he's going to call me into something different soon or not.

1:56:32 I'm just staying obedient to what he's doing. I know how to hear his voice now. Whatever he tells you to do, just do that. You know what I'm saying? Because he has things in store for you that you won't believe. Well, I'm a living. Testimony to the work that he's doing here. So yeah, what do you? What do you?

1:56:55 Mean by that I mean I. I consumed probably 25 or 30 episodes of your show while I was in that season of kind of breaking out of all of that and coming to Christ. And it was the the people that I heard on this show is part of the reason why I decided to turn to him. I decided to continue to seek him, to see, to understand him, to consent, continue to want to know him.

1:57:25 There's something that happens on the inside of me when I hear that that I can only take so much of. Or I think I. Would die because it's a, it's a level of joy that isn't earthly. Yeah, yeah. I know what you mean. It makes me, it makes it difficult to talk. And that's not me, of course. It's just how much he loves us. It's a gift that he has given me that I did not earn, and that's what I'm talking about.

1:58:03 He has used us to do things that I cannot imagine. And when you tell me stuff like that and we hear that and it's, it's not because of of us, there is a level of obedience. I get it. That's what I'm saying. When we're obedient to God, He does unbelievable things that when you know that someone else's eternity has shifted in such a way that they will be with God forever, and what you were involved in was an instrument that he used.

1:58:46 I don't care what you think is fulfilling. Nothing compares to that. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing compares to that, and so whatever he's telling you to do, just do it because he's got amazing things in store for you. That is incredible to hear. Thank you for sharing that. Oh yeah. You got a unique set of experiences.

1:59:15 Do you have a message that comes from what you've experienced so far and what you think he's calling you into? I would just. Say, if you're truly looking for freedom, you can find it in Jesus. He's the way, the truth and the life. And give him a chance. Just give him a chance. Do some real, real research, real understanding, real work.

1:59:39 I mean, I think for me it started with research, logical research. But from there, you know, just give him a chance. And I think you'll be really surprised at what you find. And I also want to say that if there's anybody out there who's just in a place that maybe I was reach out to you, I'd be happy to talk to you.

1:59:57 I'd be happy to talk to them. And, you know, any, anything that I can answer, anything, any words that I can say, you know, because I just want to see people free. Yeah. That is so good. You are free and hearing it come from you should be a bridge from where this person watching this is now. Into light, yes. Into the true light, Yes, that's what. I pray and.

2:00:30 To hear where you came from and to hear how God pulled you into where you are now and in your just humble submission to him, just wanting that goodness for others is is really powerful. Justin Morris, Well done, Sir. Thank you, Stacy. Justin's story exposes something most people never realize, that not every spiritual light is from God, and deception can feel like enlightenment until it tears your life apart.

2:01:03 The demonic is real, and it often enters through practices that seem harmless or even healing. His story also shows something far more powerful. God dismantles the kind of deception that took root in Justin's life and restores peace where confusion once lived when we turn to Him. If someone you love is searching for higher spirituality or is caught in crystals, channeling, or other New Age practices, please share this episode with them. It could very well be just what they need to bring them to truth and real peace.

2:01:42 And if you need prayer or resources for deliverance or spiritual confusion, you can find help@astrongerfaith.org/prayer now. This ministry's helped you grow in your faith and you feel like God's calling you to support the work. You can do that at a stronger faith.org/give. It helps us keep telling stories like Justin's that changes lives. Until next time, we pray that God guides you to peace and builds a stronger faith in you and in those you love.