Bonus Episode: Dr. Feigenbaum Talks Novice Training, Weight Class Decisions, Training Frequency, and More!

0:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, it's Jordan from Barbell Medicine. [SPEAKER_00]: Now, this episode preview is from exclusive content that regularly goes out to our Barbell Medicine Plus subscribers. [SPEAKER_00]: In addition to exclusive content, Barbell Medicine Plus subscribers get early access to episodes and products, at free listening, discounts on products and services, and the ability to ask Dr. Barakianite questions all for about the cost of a cup of coffee each month.

0:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And in case you're wondering, the first month is free. [SPEAKER_00]: To join head over to barbellmedicine.com slash plus and sign up to be a barbell medicine plus member today that's barbellmedicine.com slash plus. [SPEAKER_00]: All right, thanks for your consideration. [SPEAKER_00]: On to the show.

0:37 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, what's up, everybody? [SPEAKER_00]: It is Dr. Jordan Fagan, but we are doing an Instagram live. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you know, whatever, two thousand, nineteen, we're doing it again. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe even longer than that. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, what I do here is I answer your questions, at least I try to ideally about health fitness exercise, something like that.

0:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And this will be later be posted for the Barbell Minute. [SPEAKER_00]: Some plus subscribers, but yeah, for the next thirty five, forty minutes. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm with you. [SPEAKER_00]: One sec. [SPEAKER_00]: I got a grab a drink here. [SPEAKER_00]: We just finished work out and I am thirsty.

1:11 [SPEAKER_00]: One sec. [SPEAKER_00]: All right. [SPEAKER_00]: Got the drink. [SPEAKER_00]: A&W, this is not sponsored by a&W, but I wish it would. [SPEAKER_00]: If you are a&W representative and you want some, you just want to send me some free stuff, I'll bug you guys. [SPEAKER_00]: I'll do it. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, ask me a question about health fitness training, something like that, and we'll get it popping.

1:32 [SPEAKER_00]: What's up, everybody? [SPEAKER_00]: Howdy. [SPEAKER_00]: Howdy. [SPEAKER_00]: Howdy. [SPEAKER_00]: uh... m underscore ministers what's up man uh... been following you for eight years thank you for all the gains and the best physical shape of my life so far that's awesome yeah that i've realized that i've been doing this for a while every time somebody's like oh how long have you been doing on the coaching or you know tell me to borrow medicine and i'm like oh my gosh yeah we're we're since two thousand twelve so thirteen years for that and i was i've been coaching since two thousand eight so [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I'm getting older.

2:05 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, SD seven two one two, would you still recommend the starting strength program for a fifty-year-old male? [SPEAKER_00]: No, and no hate comes to starting strength. [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, we're talking about a particular program starting strength, obviously in your progression.

2:20 [SPEAKER_00]: It's [SPEAKER_00]: Fine, but there are a number of issues that I have with that program. [SPEAKER_00]: It's hyper specialized because it's only four exercises, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Four or five exercises. [SPEAKER_00]: The rep scheme is very narrow, hyper specialized. [SPEAKER_00]: Just doing five does not get you the entire complement of physical adaptations across the rep range.

2:40 [SPEAKER_00]: You'd want exposure to not only more exercises, but more rep ranges. [SPEAKER_00]: You'd also want conditioning that's programmed in there. [SPEAKER_00]: And you'd also want some semblance of auto regulation rather than just add five pound each time. [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, all of that could be forgiven, and I could just be like completely out to lunch on this.

2:54 [SPEAKER_00]: If the program worked super well, better than other stuff out there to reliably get people to this high level of strength, if somebody desired that, but it doesn't. [SPEAKER_00]: So, again, I'm waiting for all the world beaters to show up out of starting strength. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if there's one novice program that people who are in a barbell training of rent, it's probably that one.

3:15 [SPEAKER_00]: We're five through one and I'm like, where are the champions? [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's just a program. [SPEAKER_00]: And so again, if somebody gets into barbell training through that or five through one, great. [SPEAKER_00]: Love to have you, you're lifting weights, that's great. [SPEAKER_00]: This idea though that like I have to stick with this program because I've been sort of inculcated into the starting strength, you know, world.

3:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that I feel that great about that. [SPEAKER_00]: So I, for our beginner prescription, would be a great option. [SPEAKER_00]: There are other free programs out there that are, I would view to work for a larger swath of the population and work better for them too. [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, as long as people are lifting weights, I'm cool with it.

3:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I just don't, that would not be my go to recommendation. [SPEAKER_00]: Alright, Jen, what's up, buddy? [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, Jordan. [SPEAKER_00]: In competitive powerlifting, how do you know what body weight is optimal for an athlete? [SPEAKER_00]: You don't. [SPEAKER_00]: I hate to say that, but you don't.

4:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's pretty complicated if you think about it because going up a weight class, gaining body weight, most people will get stronger due to not only additional lean body mass, not having to cut for me, more energy available to train. [SPEAKER_00]: All of those things would generally support gaining more strength, but you might run into a buzzsaw of a world-beater [SPEAKER_00]: in the next way, class up.

4:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And so whether or not you're more competitive depends on who's competing at the meets that you go to, what level you compete at or whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, at the highest levels, there's kind of a lot of, you know, guesswork and then also trial and error. [SPEAKER_00]: My general thing is for people who are competing at the highest level, you need to figure out, like, if I go up a weight class, what are my, who am I going to be going up against?

4:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And what sort of increase in total? [SPEAKER_00]: What I need to see to be more competitive than I am now at the lower weight class. [SPEAKER_00]: And then you weigh that against the hassle of staying at a lower weight class. [SPEAKER_00]: And like, what do you want to get out of powerlifting?

5:07 [SPEAKER_00]: If the goal of powerlifting is just to lift as much weight as possible, you don't really care how you finish. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: answers easy. [SPEAKER_00]: But if you actually want to be competitive, you've got a way, you know, for your competition is and where do you go from there?

5:18 [SPEAKER_00]: For people who are not competing at the highest level, I don't think you should worry about the way class, because who cares? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's just, you, the power of net that point becomes like a documentation of how strong you actually are under a, you know, agreed upon set of rules and standards, which is why we actually hold the meats and it's not just mail in your best attempts that you've ever done at the gym.

5:37 [SPEAKER_00]: It's different. [SPEAKER_00]: People have different gym PRs versus meat PRs and there's a reason for that. [SPEAKER_00]: All right. [SPEAKER_00]: What's up, everybody? [SPEAKER_00]: Howdy. [SPEAKER_00]: Thoughts on six times a week, SBD a week for experienced power lifters. [SPEAKER_00]: Not really the program I would run, but that doesn't actually tell me enough about the program to weigh in on it.

6:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So for example, let's say you had a person who was squatting, benching, and deadlifting each twice a week, right? [SPEAKER_00]: On different days, maybe they're upper lower days, whatever it is. [SPEAKER_00]: They, and then each of those, those days that they squatted, right, they're squatting twice a week.

6:14 [SPEAKER_00]: They did three sets. [SPEAKER_00]: And you compare that to a person who squatting six days a week, but only squatting one set. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the training load is about the same, just the frequency is different. [SPEAKER_00]: And when this has been directly investigated, the training outcomes are roughly the same.

6:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that training frequency is mainly useful for accommodating an individual schedule so that they can get the most amount of training load in [SPEAKER_00]: in a amount of time that they have. [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, people want more sessions that are shorter in length. [SPEAKER_00]: Great.

6:44 [SPEAKER_00]: If people want fewer sessions that are longer in length, also great. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's the main role for frequency and then outside of that, accommodating somebody's schedule, the more frequency you have, you can increase the volume, which generally speaking, if you can tolerate it, [SPEAKER_00]: likely to improve results, but yeah, six times a week, not really something that I've done outside of med school and residency, sort of time constraints where I only could train for like thirty, forty minutes a day, in which case I just needed to like do exercises frequently, one or two sets and then move on to the next one.

7:14 [SPEAKER_00]: That worked okay. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not my preferred way to train, but you know, it might be somebody else's cup of tea. [SPEAKER_00]: Or a cup of. [SPEAKER_00]: And W. Rupier. [SPEAKER_00]: All right. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, good to see everybody here. [SPEAKER_00]: Do a course vlog. [SPEAKER_00]: I actually did do want this is funny.

7:34 [SPEAKER_00]: There's so much people in the internet. [SPEAKER_00]: I did like a little golf log with my dad. [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know how many holes I actually filmed, but it was like just showing what that me playing one of my favorite courses in San Diego. [SPEAKER_00]: It's called Journey at Pachanga.

7:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Love that course. [SPEAKER_00]: And I got probably seventy percent [SPEAKER_00]: positive feedback, maybe I'm a little revisionist history, maybe it's eighty percent positive feedback. [SPEAKER_00]: But there were people like, oh, now what are you just now? [SPEAKER_00]: A rich guy would you show golf lifestyle stuff?

8:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, I don't know, man, I thought you guys would be interested. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like Jordan play sports. [SPEAKER_00]: He does more than deadlift and squad and bench press, but maybe I'll do another course vlog when I get my handicap back down. [SPEAKER_00]: How about that? [SPEAKER_00]: Rolls, Royce, and Jay.

8:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you describe when mechanistic data becomes relevant in a clinical population at what point do observations at a cellular level become clinical behavioral issues? [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not really sure what the last sentence means, but just so everybody kind of knows what we're talking about.

8:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, mechanistic data stuff that happens like a Petri dish or stuff that happens like, oh, at the cellular level, here's what you see, here's the relationship, but there's no actual like outcome data, meaning like, oh, this particular training intervention or supplement increases muscle protein synthesis, for example.

8:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Great. [SPEAKER_00]: People interested in growing muscle, preserving muscle, avoiding sarcopenia, all of these different folks would be pumped about the opportunity for this intervention to. [SPEAKER_00]: make more muscle mass, grow more muscle mass. [SPEAKER_00]: However, you actually need to show that whatever the intervention is, training, nutrition, supplement, whatever, actually, you know, no shit increases muscle size, which is the outcome.

9:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that mechanistic data is mostly hypothesis generating for like, okay, we look, we have a reason to believe that this particular intervention or series of interventions does X, but now we got to test that. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's basically, you know, we're standing on the shoulders, researchers are standing on the shoulders of other researchers to like do the actual clinically relevant research.

9:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Outside of that, [SPEAKER_00]: Mechanistic data becomes useful when it is an area where there's not a lot of scientific evidence, meaning like you have to make some sort of clinical decision to use a medication, to do a particular intervention or whatever, and all you have are proxy markers, you know, mechanisms and such, and it's hypothetical, but you feel better about making those decisions kind of intelligently.

10:01 [SPEAKER_00]: It's mostly treating our anxiety as physicians, but those are I think the major roles of mechanistic data. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, would not over rely on them if there are outcome data. [SPEAKER_00]: I would buy far outcomes far more important than mechanisms if you happen to have both.

10:20 [SPEAKER_00]: All right. [SPEAKER_00]: What would be some signs that the current program has run its course? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think in general, if a program is generating results that are demonstrable and, you know, you can't, so that means you can either measure them, you know, you see your [SPEAKER_00]: You're estimated one rep max is going up.

10:38 [SPEAKER_00]: You're getting stronger, you're gaining muscle mass, you're gaining cardiovascular fitness by some sort of metric every three to four weeks, something like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Be reasonable. [SPEAKER_00]: Sort of time frame there and you like what you're doing. [SPEAKER_00]: You're motivated to keep showing up.

10:55 [SPEAKER_00]: It'd be hard for me to save. [SPEAKER_00]: You should change that unless you're like, I got a one rep max test. [SPEAKER_00]: I got a power lifting meat. [SPEAKER_00]: And so at that point, you might have to get more specifically prepared for that test. [SPEAKER_00]: But otherwise, if trains go in great, but as measured by results and you're enjoying it and motivated to keep doing it, [SPEAKER_00]: carry on, but yeah, if you start to plateau and stagnate based on any sort of fitness adaptations that you're actually training for, whether it's strength, hypertrophy, cardiovascular pre-fitness, or you're getting a little psychologically burnt out, probably time for a change.

11:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Ryan Benson, dang it's been a long time since you've gone live. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, man. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you and I've been working together for like eleven years now. [SPEAKER_00]: I think this is my first Instagram live in at least a year. [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe I'll keep doing these if people like them.

11:43 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see. [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, yeah, if you were just joining this Instagram live, I'm answering questions. [SPEAKER_00]: So ask me anything. [SPEAKER_00]: Ideally related to health, fitness, nutrition, something like that. [SPEAKER_00]: All right. [SPEAKER_00]: David Rodriguez, one, six, eight.

11:58 [SPEAKER_00]: What are your sodium recommendations for pre [SPEAKER_00]: bring post exercise and generally general daily intake. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think people need to micromanage their sodium or salt intake. [SPEAKER_00]: Most people in the United States, over ninety percent of adults consume way too much sodium.

12:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And most of that's not coming from the salt shaker. [SPEAKER_00]: Shout out to our cast. [SPEAKER_00]: Shake it like a salt shaker. [SPEAKER_00]: Shake it like a pulmonary pitcher. [SPEAKER_00]: Shake it. [SPEAKER_00]: Dang it, I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm getting trapped in my own reference here.

12:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, most of the sodium that people consume comes from how many calories they're eating and the level of processing of their typical dietary pattern. [SPEAKER_00]: And so if you wanted to reduce sodium intake, it wouldn't be like, hey, stop using so much salt. [SPEAKER_00]: It's more so, hey, we probably need to correct for the total amount of calories that you're consuming and the level of processing in your typical dietary pattern.

12:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that most people who are training even relatively hard need to supplement with sodium. [SPEAKER_00]: I think particularly if somebody's eating like a minimally processed diet, unprocessed diet, their sodium level intake outside of very, very large athletes with the high calorie intake are going to be.

13:03 [SPEAKER_00]: fine. [SPEAKER_00]: I would recommend typically under twenty three hundred twenty four hundred milligrams of sodium per day. [SPEAKER_00]: If you're eating a minimally processed diet or mostly unprocessed food diet, you can, you know, add salt to food, but I just think most people do not need to use an electrolyte supplement.

13:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Most people do not need to take an additional sodium. [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, if you're training a ton to a day's very long sessions, you know, that are three hours or hours, whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: uh... it becomes challenging to replace the losses and not only fluid but also electrolytes from your session because you're training so much does not apply to people training you know an hour and a half or an hour three times a week that's not the same person so yeah my recommendation generally speaking don't use an electrolyte supplement don't eat a highly processed food diet eat the right amount of calories don't worry about sodium intake pre-during or post-exercise unless you're training a ton

13:56 [SPEAKER_00]: more than ten hours a week, more than that. [SPEAKER_00]: And some of the sessions are very long, in which case you'll probably need to eat something in the middle of the session. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's going to have sodium in it. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's generally good enough. [SPEAKER_00]: If you are a really high level endurance athlete, you can make a case for some sweat testing just to see, in addition to monitoring your weight before and after each session to see how good your hydration strategies are to maintain weight during the activity, which is an important sort of correlate for performance.

14:23 [SPEAKER_00]: losing more than like one and a half or two percent of body weight during activity does tend to reduce performance and so you'd want your pre-workout and intro workout sort of hydration, food, consumption, et cetera to be enough to maintain your body. [SPEAKER_00]: All right, that is a wrap on this free sample of our bonus content that regularly goes out to our barbell medicine plus subscribers.

14:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, to join head over to barbellmedicine.com slash plus and sign up to be a barbell medicine plus member today. [SPEAKER_00]: That's barbellmedicine.com slash plus. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for listening. [SPEAKER_00]: We'll catch you guys next time.