Bonus Episode: Overcoming Plateaus, Running, DOMS, Ibuprofen and GainzZz, and More

0:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, it's Jordan from Barbell Medicine. [SPEAKER_00]: Now this episode preview is from exclusive content that regularly goes out to our Barbell Medicine Plus subscribers. [SPEAKER_00]: In addition to exclusive content, Barbell Medicine Plus subscribers get early access to episodes and products, and free listening, discounts on products and services, and the ability to ask Dr. Barrocky and I questions, all for about the cost of a cup of coffee each month.

0:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And in case you're wondering, the first month is free to join head over to barbellmedicine.com slash plus and sign up to be a barbell medicine plus member today that's barbellmedicine.com slash plus all right. [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for your consideration on to the show. [SPEAKER_00]: All right, I don't suspect many people are going to be away right now.

0:45 [SPEAKER_00]: It's 315 on the West Coast and Leah Lutz veteran coach are lovely. [SPEAKER_00]: Leah is competing in Cape Town South Africa. [SPEAKER_00]: So I got the live stream going and yeah, this is what friends do. [SPEAKER_00]: We wake up at 3 a.m. You watch your, your besties compete. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's already done our opening squat, open at 140 kilos, 308 pounds.

1:07 [SPEAKER_00]: That was very, very easy. [SPEAKER_00]: We're targeting somewhere around 152 kilos for her third, we'll see our second goes, and yeah, my plan is to livestream each one of these things. [SPEAKER_00]: Swat, Bench, deadlift today. [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully it's going to be done by like 7am, so if you're awake, you like powerlifting, you can check that out, otherwise I'll be answering questions.

1:29 [SPEAKER_00]: We're talking otherwise in the middle. [SPEAKER_00]: Lee is in the Master's 2 Division, 76 kilo weight class, and this is our third appearance at Worlds. [SPEAKER_00]: It's taken our eight years to get back to the platform, which is so proud of her, and really just excited for her to show her stuff.

1:46 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the sport of powerlifting is interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like you do all this training in the gym, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And everyone thinks, oh, the whole sport is, is just about getting stronger. [SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, just go do that on the meat. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the reality is powerlifting the sport is mostly about [SPEAKER_00]: probability and you're picking attempts on meat day that you're very confident that you can get at least you should because the goal is to maximize the total.

2:13 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the sport. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not just recreational, you know, recreationally lifting weights and then, you know, there are no consequences that you're decisions with weight selection. [SPEAKER_00]: Powerlifting, the real sport is probability of you being able to hit the weights that you're [SPEAKER_00]: that you selected and maximize your total on a given day.

2:29 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it's nice to get strong in the gym, definitely got to do that, definitely got a train. [SPEAKER_00]: But the actual sport is a temp selection on meat day. [SPEAKER_00]: And you hope that you have a great day. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see, Plavsick under score 4 asks. [SPEAKER_00]: How to adjust training stimulus to low for specific individual?

2:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's actually a great question, perhaps a million dollar question, multi-million dollar question. [SPEAKER_00]: First thing I'd ask is, how did you arrive at the conclusion that training stimulus is too low? [SPEAKER_00]: So the reality is, you know, all programs are gonna stop working at some point, a plateau, right?

3:04 [SPEAKER_00]: We just draw an arbitrary line in the sand like what is a plateau? [SPEAKER_00]: You know, for most training-related adaptations, it would be no demonstrable improvement in about three to four weeks. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a true plateau. [SPEAKER_00]: The idea about a week over a week, like one week at a time, that doesn't really work.

3:21 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not consistent with how long it takes human adaptations to develop with respect to training anyway. [SPEAKER_00]: So, [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, three to four weeks of no demonstrable improvement, you can call that a plateau. [SPEAKER_00]: So then you have to decide, is it too much training stress in the person is unable to recover from that to demonstrate increased fitness or is it too little stress?

3:44 [SPEAKER_00]: You can try to tease that out with some questions, how sore are you, what's your motivation to train, how you sleeping, how you feeling, also to stuff, but ultimately it's an educated guess. [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, that's now long story long. [SPEAKER_00]: That means that the elements of the programming that determine the training stress, which is the experience of the program.

4:05 [SPEAKER_00]: So you have the reps, exercises, respirates, proximity to failure, volume, all that sort of stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: That is the training stimulus. [SPEAKER_00]: That's the external loads which get applied to the individual. [SPEAKER_00]: And how the experience it is the training stress, internal load.

4:22 [SPEAKER_00]: So you would just increase training volume. [SPEAKER_00]: You could increase intensity. [SPEAKER_00]: You could increase the types of exercise, the stress from the types of exercises that you pick. [SPEAKER_00]: For example, it was mostly machine stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: You could do more free weights generally because more muscle mass is involved in freezing any exercises.

4:41 [SPEAKER_00]: But now my preferred method for increasing training stress. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, anyway, that's a long story, but you just increase the training load. [SPEAKER_00]: And ultimately, that is the goal of a coach, goal of a personal trainer and goal of, you know, fitness professional, we're trying to maximize people's training loads.

5:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's just an umbrella term for the amount of training you're doing in the type of training you're doing, how that all integrates together. [SPEAKER_00]: So, [SPEAKER_00]: More training load, more fitness adaptations, more health-related adaptations, and the two biggest bottlenecks there are time, logistics, and two physiological tolerance, so how much can you recover from?

5:21 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not just volume, but it's like training loop. [SPEAKER_00]: You'd increase that if you thought somebody wasn't getting enough training for their [SPEAKER_00]: uh, because they're as demonstrated by peanut plateau. [SPEAKER_00]: How do modify training with heart rate around the 170s at RP-78 for a real big activity like running?

5:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, slow down. [SPEAKER_00]: If you're trying the, when people are trying to get in a running forever, reason in lifting, you know, people that, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you [SPEAKER_00]: We've been lifting with for a long time or otherwise involved in the strength training body building scene, whatever.

5:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Running is becoming more popular. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we're just getting older and people are more interested in cardiovascular health or maybe it's just like between high rocks and high of this hybrid stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, it is, it takes a pretty long time to improve, uh, running economy sufficiently that you would be able to sustain a much lower heart rate while still running at a decent, decent pace.

6:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and that includes, I obviously Cardi respiratory adaptations too, but even if you develop a bunch of Cardi respiratory adaptations on like a bike, a stairmaster, elliptical, [SPEAKER_00]: Roar, skier, whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just running as is kind of own unique beast from a, you know, muscular skeletal requirement and an energy standpoint.

6:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So, if you're running and your heart rates in the 170s, it's not our P7 to 8. [SPEAKER_00]: It's higher than that. [SPEAKER_00]: You're just going too fast for your current level of running economy that you've developed and your entire risk per fitness. [SPEAKER_00]: So you've got to slow down.

6:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So you usually all have people do like a run walk and just have a heart rate cap. [SPEAKER_00]: on it and, you know, if you're somewhere between like 25 and 45, I'd just put a heart rate cap at like 140, 145 something like that and yeah, you walk whenever you get above that and then otherwise you run and it's going to take a while to develop that.

7:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So, but if you're in the 170s, yeah, it's that's probably [SPEAKER_00]: in strength programs on accessory work I assume that the isolation exercises should be treated as high-perature-few work. [SPEAKER_00]: That's, this is just my face at 338 in the morning, so don't, don't take that personally.

7:36 [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually an interesting question, kind of a philosophical question on some levels. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what definitively, you know, make something a hypertrophy exercise, or even an accessory exercise versus of supplemental exercise, or, you know, otherwise just a regular exercise or strength work.

7:54 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, just drawing these lines. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, some people would be annoyed by that answer, they're like, what do you mean? [SPEAKER_00]: You can't look the main lifts or the main lifts and everything else is either accessory, supplemental. [SPEAKER_00]: That's fine. [SPEAKER_00]: but then drawing the line in the sand it is kind of arbitrary, right?

8:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So, and the reason why I think it's kind of arbitrary and maybe that this will help answer the question is that I don't draw a line in the sand between. [SPEAKER_00]: This is hyperature work and this is strength work. [SPEAKER_00]: The overlap from most types of strength work and most types of work that would otherwise generate a hypertrophy that then diagram, it's not a circle, but it's pretty, there's a lot of overlap there.

8:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know that I would go into a particular exercise, especially if it's a, like a strength training program, and I think this is high-purchasing work solely. [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, if this is like more of a mindset thing, so like look if I'm thinking about just high-purchasing work, I'm thinking about, I want to use basically the lightest way that I can to get the maximum amount of stimulus to the muscles.

9:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't really personally buy that because I think you should try to move the weight as fast as possible on the concentric on the way up. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that that's better than controlling the tempo intentionally on the way up, the way down, I think controlling the tempo can be useful for maintaining a particular posture, particular relationships, of joints, as far as a lengthening or range of motion, muscle length, that's sort of those sort of relationships, but yeah.

9:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that I would just approach an exercise differently because it's an accessory exercise or a main exercise. [SPEAKER_00]: I would try to do both with good technique. [SPEAKER_00]: Good technique is repeatable, it's efficient. [SPEAKER_00]: It meets the points of performance for the exercise.

9:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I would pick the load appropriately based on the reproscription and proximity to failure. [SPEAKER_00]: And I would try to move the weight as fast as possible on the concentric. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that you're going to get a decent stimulus for both strength and hypertrophy. [SPEAKER_00]: So, what advice would you give to someone who struggles to adhere to the amount of conditioning, including in your templates, particularly the newer ones?

10:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'd... [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't give any advice first. [SPEAKER_00]: I'd listen, just general, general rule of thumb if your health fitness professional really, anyone who deals with other humans, then you have to like interview them or get in it, gather information should be doing about twice as much listening as you do talking.

10:29 [SPEAKER_00]: So in this particular case, I'd ask why. [SPEAKER_00]: In your opinion, what's the deal is it be, is it a time thing? [SPEAKER_00]: Is it enjoyment things? [SPEAKER_00]: Is it scattered, you know, scheduling back to time? [SPEAKER_00]: Is it because you, you know, get shit influence every time that you try to do conditioning because it's just running for example, you know.

10:46 [SPEAKER_00]: be curious. [SPEAKER_00]: So I would start there. [SPEAKER_00]: I would try to identify what are the barriers and then try to come up with either solutions to those barriers real or perceived and then move forward with a shared plan. [SPEAKER_00]: So after identifying those barriers there, then the advice then is specific to what the issues are.

11:04 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'd want to know first before just giving you some flipping advice, you know, just do it. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that's good advice. [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, do you think that set volume should increase in order to stimulate overall GPP general physical preparedness or focus should be towards intensity for powerlifting?

11:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, forgive me, but I don't, I'm not sure that I understand the question. [SPEAKER_00]: mainly because there's not a specific goal here that we're comparing. [SPEAKER_00]: So like to me, you have two choices, you can, uh, you know, organize training around general physical preparedness, which would involve strength, hypertrophy, power, characteristic fitness, effectively every.

11:44 [SPEAKER_00]: physical adaptation that we can get out of exercise. [SPEAKER_00]: That's one trajectory, you know, two roads diverge into the woods and I took the roadless route. [SPEAKER_00]: That's one path. [SPEAKER_00]: The other path is like full kill mode, maximal strength development, like powerlifting, right?

12:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And there are differences in how you would approach those sort of things. [SPEAKER_00]: And so from a general programming heuristic, what we're trying to do is maximize training load that a person is able to adhere to. [SPEAKER_00]: Logistics big bottleneck, the other big bottleneck is going to be training tolerance.

12:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So how much can they recover from? [SPEAKER_00]: And then so that's like the central organizing like paradigm here that the concept I keep coming back to. [SPEAKER_00]: And then how that training load is formulated. [SPEAKER_00]: It has to be specific to the goal, so it's not just volume for GPP because you would want exposure to many different rep ranges, some of them would be higher intensity, some of them would be lower intensity, proximity failure would always be like pretty similar within about four to five reps of failure, but you would have some maybe dedicated power work, you'd have more [SPEAKER_00]: than a pure powerlifting template, and then in powerlifting for maximal strength stuff, you really want to preserve a high fidelity of force production, and so that means staying pretty far away from failure from the majority of the training, because if you think about like a heavy set of five, like a five rep max, let's say it's 500 pounds, 227.5 kilos.

13:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Rep 1 moves like that, [SPEAKER_00]: like that slower. [SPEAKER_00]: So think about the force production on rep 1 versus rep 5, which is where is it higher? [SPEAKER_00]: It's rep 1. [SPEAKER_00]: To get more strength, Jamie was out of the first rep than the last rep. And a lot of fatigue got a last rep compared to the first rep. And so instead of doing that weight for one heavy set of five, I'd like to have that person do multiple sets of two and do more sets, more volume.

13:42 [SPEAKER_00]: But at that sort of load, where [SPEAKER_00]: that is meet met the threshold for strength development, which is, in the literature, they call it 60%, 65% of one or a max, I think it's probably closer to 70%, I'm generally speaking for powerlifting, but yeah, it's not like it's 80% or 90% so anyway, long story, long, I said that a number of times here, I think it just depends on what the goals are, but we want to maximize training load and we want to make sure that training load is formulated in a way that's specific to the goals, so what are the goals?

14:16 [SPEAKER_00]: had a powerlifting beat, you know. [SPEAKER_00]: I would focus the training load, that training load being very specific to the powerlifting meat for probably. [SPEAKER_00]: 20 weeks, you know, half the year, something like that. [SPEAKER_00]: And then if it's just one meter year, the rest of the year is going to be more generalized offseason work.

14:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, changing, that's how I generally approach programming for people that even very highly competitive powerletters, there's some offseason stuff that doesn't look like powerlifting. [SPEAKER_00]: There's still some strength work, but it's just not specific to the sport of powerlifting.

14:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey doc, long time barbell medicine fan, when is Jen to power building to coming out? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this week. [SPEAKER_00]: So loaded in the app, I've been testing it for the past few months with some folks, and I'm pretty happy with where it's at. [SPEAKER_00]: What we're doing is power building two and power building three, the Jen one, Jen two is gonna replace both of them.

15:11 [SPEAKER_00]: They were pretty similar. [SPEAKER_00]: just some structural differences with the training load was awfully similar. [SPEAKER_00]: So I thought, let's just do an update generation to second generation power building to that'll be the update for the current PB2 power building two and power building three templates.

15:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So release that, and then at some point we'll do a separate new power building three. [SPEAKER_00]: It won't be [SPEAKER_00]: a replacement of the current power building three because that's going to be this new second generation from power building two. [SPEAKER_00]: You can have three programs, a three-day version for to prep people if they want to do an actual power lifting meat or test their one-remaxes.

15:46 [SPEAKER_00]: It'll be a four-day option. [SPEAKER_00]: Same sort of thing. [SPEAKER_00]: People want to go to a power lifting meat. [SPEAKER_00]: They want to test their maxes. [SPEAKER_00]: And they'll be a four-day non-competition version. [SPEAKER_00]: So there's no peaking block, but it's power building-ish training, for folks who like, I like training like a strength training.

16:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I like the, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: but I'm not going to meet. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, great, we don't need to compromise your training as much as somebody who would go to a meet. [SPEAKER_00]: So, best of both worlds, ideally. [SPEAKER_00]: So, your three programs, they're all 16 weeks long.

16:14 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a lot of training theoretically. [SPEAKER_00]: If you wanna do all of them. [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, should be up this week. [SPEAKER_00]: Adam Meekens, what's up, buddy? [SPEAKER_00]: It's funny. [SPEAKER_00]: I was at a car show on Saturday and met this guy, the Viper attracts dudes.

16:31 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just a dude magnet. [SPEAKER_00]: And anyway, he's like, oh, you got an Instagram and I was like, sure, here's the part of a medicine, whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, oh, I had a meekin's follow to you. [SPEAKER_00]: I love his stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, that's cool. [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, Jeff Nipperd follows you.

16:47 [SPEAKER_00]: How does that's awesome? [SPEAKER_00]: How do you know these people? [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I was like, they're [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that was pretty cool. [SPEAKER_00]: That did happen. [SPEAKER_00]: I did not say that my ring comment. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, that's nice. [SPEAKER_00]: It's nice to get a little immediate vetting of the quality of your information based on Mutuals.

17:04 [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, hope you're doing well. [SPEAKER_00]: And Andre is all right. [SPEAKER_00]: I have a plan to work out this morning, but also my shoulder hurts. [SPEAKER_00]: Can I take some ibuprofen or will that impact results? [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so when this has been tested, it doesn't matter.

17:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And in fact, individuals taking anti-inflammatories or other sort of pain over the counter pain medications, [SPEAKER_00]: Effectively, if that gets you to exercise your results are better than if you didn't exercise. [SPEAKER_00]: So, I'm not going to give you medical advice. [SPEAKER_00]: This is infotainment purposes only.

17:44 [SPEAKER_00]: We do have some material on this on our YouTube channel. [SPEAKER_00]: But what you'll see in the research is like muscle proteins and synthesis rates. [SPEAKER_00]: An hour after a workout if you take an anti-inflammatory or lower than if you don't take an anti-inflammatory. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like who gives a shit?

17:58 [SPEAKER_00]: It's one hour. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't care about muscle protein synthesis rates for an hour. [SPEAKER_00]: I care what they are for the next 24, 48 hours, 96 for weeks. [SPEAKER_00]: And ultimately does not seem to impact high-perch fear strength results. [SPEAKER_00]: So, better to train most of the time than it is not to, most of the time.

18:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Bossman.u. [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, Jordan, how do I build lean muscles? [SPEAKER_00]: I tend to get large with heavier weights to I lift lighter with more reps. [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm. [SPEAKER_00]: Nope. [SPEAKER_00]: No, that's not, that's not quite right. [SPEAKER_00]: And actually I'll tell you this and some some coaches get a little A little irked because I lean muscles like whoa, as opposed to fat muscle like you [SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't exist, right?

18:42 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you're building muscle tissue, it's always lean. [SPEAKER_00]: And you can build out with high reps and lighter weights. [SPEAKER_00]: You can build out with lower reps and heavier weights. [SPEAKER_00]: I think I said that right. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you can do it with any and all everything in between, right?

18:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's anything between like four reps and like 25 reps. [SPEAKER_00]: That's all fine. [SPEAKER_00]: Some of those are going to heavier, so I'm going to be lighter. [SPEAKER_00]: Some exercises you prefer to lift with more reps, some less. [SPEAKER_00]: That's fine. [SPEAKER_00]: Pretty much pretty similar hypertrophy stimulus.

19:11 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're gaining weight and you feel like not most of it is not muscle. [SPEAKER_00]: It's probably not the program and it's probably the diet, but yeah, provided that you're training, you know, somewhere between 10 to 15 working sets for the major muscle groups of the body per week. [SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of like what I want people to target if they're just getting into training, you know, working up to that for the first after a few months.

19:35 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, or a year or something like that, it's a good place to be and then people will need more training and more manipulation of training variables after that things get more individualized for sure. [SPEAKER_00]: And so, yeah, of those sets, some of them are going to be lower rep, some of them are going to be higher rep, but ultimately, if you're unhappy with the body composition, it's mostly a dietary thing, and it would also layer in some conditioning recommendations on that.

19:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So, would recommend any of our templates this week, the power building to second generation templates coming out, it's going to be a banger. [SPEAKER_00]: That may be useful if you're really interested in strength, strength development to outside of muscular size, but if muscular size is maybe the primary goal, [SPEAKER_00]: one of the hyperch fee templates or the body building templates that we have.

20:21 [SPEAKER_00]: That's how I do it. [SPEAKER_00]: Speaking of bench press, I am the 0.01% that dislikes bench press, does the bar have to hit your chest. [SPEAKER_00]: So depending on how you would judge, [SPEAKER_00]: how much people like the bench press, like how are you rating that? [SPEAKER_00]: I actually think a lot more than 0.01% dislikes the bench press.

20:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And most people don't exercise. [SPEAKER_00]: So we could assume all those people probably don't like the bench press. [SPEAKER_00]: If they loved it, if they really enjoyed it, they probably do it right? [SPEAKER_00]: As far as does a bar have to hit your chest. [SPEAKER_00]: This is made up, we're lifting, we've made up these arbitrary constraints for various lifts, right?

21:03 [SPEAKER_00]: So this squad has to be below parallel, you know, whatever, barringer back, and a powerlifting. [SPEAKER_00]: That's the sport powerlifting. [SPEAKER_00]: If you're not competing in a particular sport that has specific rules that you must abide by, you don't have to do anything. [SPEAKER_00]: If you're limiting range of motion due to shoulder pain, I don't love that because my goal for most folks is unrestricted training.

21:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Unrestricted as far as exercise selection goes, range of motion goes. [SPEAKER_00]: You can do anything you want to do and everything you want to do. [SPEAKER_00]: To me, that's the purpose of doing all this right. [SPEAKER_00]: We want to enjoy not only a long life but a healthy life and active life and be able to do everything that excites us and so that's legal, of course.

21:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you can't touch the bar, if you can't train the bench for us with a bar touching your chest, [SPEAKER_00]: I think that might warrant some specific being it addressed specifically with some rehab stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: We have a shoulder rehab program. [SPEAKER_00]: I might be useful for you, especially if you said you live in the United States and you're insurance, or your access to health care is not awesome, because you live in the United States.

22:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I can definitely understand that. [SPEAKER_00]: So. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: That's that would be my advice. [SPEAKER_00]: I you don't have to touch your chest, but I wouldn't want to make sure that's a decision that's not based out of pain or injury because I want you to have access to that.

22:22 [SPEAKER_00]: What are the benefits of floor presses in training? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, generally, when I think about exercise selection, you know, it's always like, well, what are we replacing and why are we do, you know, if anything, or, and if we're not replacing an exercise like floor press for inclined bench press for overhead press for close grip bench press for regular bench press.

22:43 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not doing something like that. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just adding it to the program. [SPEAKER_00]: Then why are we adding it? [SPEAKER_00]: Um, unique aspect of the floor press is that the range [SPEAKER_00]: In that range of motion, meaning that you don't have to hold it like a spodo bench press, where you would pause it, but there's nothing stopping you stopping the bar from going down.

23:06 [SPEAKER_00]: So, most people will be able to lift more weight, handle more weight on a floor press, so some of that overloading stuff can be useful. [SPEAKER_00]: Your muscles are about 120 percent. [SPEAKER_00]: There are much stronger eccentrically than concentrically, and so some overloading stuff can be useful.

23:21 [SPEAKER_00]: That partial range of motion stuff can be useful, especially if where people pause on a floor press. [SPEAKER_00]: is a little bit below the sticking point because the way I think about sticking points is that the reduction of force production, the reduction in muscular force production occurs just before the observed sticking point.

23:40 [SPEAKER_00]: So people stick on a raw bench press, a couple inches off their chest, I think slightly before that is where the actual reduced force production has occurred and so that's where you're going to train. [SPEAKER_00]: Also, if somebody would really wanted to try like a [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but ultimately, um, has some pain sensitivity when they, when they do that, uh, floor press can be useful there.

24:01 [SPEAKER_00]: You could also do with the pins, you know, a pin bench set at mid chest. [SPEAKER_00]: And that case, the bar is actually being stopped by the pins rather than your elbows being stopped by the floor. [SPEAKER_00]: Some people prefer that because, uh, maybe the actual physical pressure on their elbows might be uncomfortable.

24:17 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's what I think about when I think about [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think that's a programming issue, or maybe expectations are maybe both. [SPEAKER_00]: So my question to you, what programmer are you running, and how are you determining that it's time to add weight? [SPEAKER_00]: Because it is inconsistent with human physiology to add weight to the bar every 48 hours every week.

24:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not how strength development works. [SPEAKER_00]: That's not the time course. [SPEAKER_00]: And certainly not linear. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think when people say that they've stalled, I'm like, what program are you running and what sort of, and how are you figuring out when it's time to progress?

25:00 [SPEAKER_00]: If you actually have it, a plateau, which I view is like three to four weeks of no demonstrable improvement in performance for a particular metric that we're tracking. [SPEAKER_00]: uh... then yeah programming update uh... i don't know that that means it's over so is delayed onto muscle soreness longer lasting in pre-menopausal women i assume we're comparing this i'm gonna make a few assumptions that we're comparing this to men and that [SPEAKER_00]: Pre-menopausal really is meaning like perimenopausal like so around, but but definitively before, but around menopaus, not just like women generally speaking.

25:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, the answer to all of that, regardless of how you meant it is no. [SPEAKER_00]: The late onset muscle soreness does not seem to be greater in premenopausal, postmenopausal or women or older men compared to younger individuals. [SPEAKER_00]: It mainly is just about training tolerance.

25:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So the person is well trained and is able to and the program is appropriate for their current training tolerance. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, would not suspect longer lasting delayed onset muscle soreness than another person with different sex, different age, etc. [SPEAKER_00]: We still don't really know what delayed onset muscle soreness actually is.

26:19 [SPEAKER_00]: and why it happens. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not just as simple as like muscular damage and subsequent inflammation. [SPEAKER_00]: There may be something related to tendons, nerve fiber, excitability, neural sort of stuff going on. [SPEAKER_00]: Got an article about this. [SPEAKER_00]: Why are my arms so sore?

26:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Or why can't I extend my arms fully after a workout? [SPEAKER_00]: Something like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Some SEO type shenanigans, but the actual stuff in the article is pretty good. [SPEAKER_00]: All right, that is a wrap on this free sample of our bonus content that regularly goes out to our barbell medicine plus subscribers.

26:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, to join head over to barbellmedicine.com slash plus and sign up to be a barbell medicine plus member today, that's barbellmedicine.com slash plus. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for listening. [SPEAKER_00]: We'll catch you guys next time.