Can You Pass My STRONG Theology Quiz? 10 Qs with Mike Winger (Ep 83)

0:00 Day. This is a little thing that was given to me. It's supposed to be Martin Luther. That was given to me by a friend of mine, and, uh, I thought it'd be fun to show it to you guys. It's actually been sitting on my back shelf for quite a while now. Although you probably can't see it on the books there or in front of the books normally. But yes, uh, today is the day before the anniversary of the Reformation, and it is something I celebrate with some caution. And I'll talk about that after I get to the first question. And so I want to, uh, get my counter.

0:37 And the first question is, I've come up with a theology test for you guys, and I want to test you to see if your theology is strong. Now, I'm using this term. You could use it, you could refer to strong theology in a number of ways. I'm using it in a very particular fashion, and I'm going to give you two tests, two questions to test your theology today. So I guess the first question is something like, can you pass my theology test?

0:59 Um, and it's probably not what you'd expect, but I think it's something that could be very healthy and good for you. Um, so let's dig into it. The first question, it's going to be from Romans, chapter five, verses one through two. And the question is going to be, do you, in the heart of your theology, do you sense. Are you aware of the peace that you have with Christ? Now, this is different than just thinking, um, ah, theologically, are Christians saved? Obviously, the answer is yes. That's not what I'm asking you personally. So let me read the passage and then I'll explain the anxiety that a lot of Christians have and the reason why I call this a strong theology test. I'll explain that, too. Let me read the passage and we'll get through this. So Romans 5:1 2. It says, Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1:54 Through him, we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. So easy to casually read this passage. But these verses are meant to be studied and thought about and pondered over. The phrases matter, the therefore matters, all the details matter, and it, it encourages your heart. Now, this verse, these two verses, I think, are so powerful in setting people free from the constant anxiety of feeling like maybe my life just isn't really right with God. I believe in Jesus. I, uh, really have faith. In Jesus. But I just feel unforgiven. That is the sense that a lot of Christians have and carry around, sometimes for years, decades, sometimes for their whole lives.

2:38 It's not healthy, it's not good. If your faith is real, then you should know you're forgiven. On the other hand, if your faith is not real, if it's mere intellectual assent, what James Chapter two talks about, then, yeah, you should worry, because the demons believe they have intellectual assent. They don't trust in Christ, they don't have that kind of faith, but they have belief.

2:58 Um, but if you truly trust in Jesus, then this is going to help you out. So the reason why I call this strong theology. Before I explain the rest, I'll explain this. Sometimes we have a lot of theology in our heads. I have a lot of information. Hopefully it's correct. I'm sure I get some theological stuff wrong. I'm sure you do, too. You know, try to get as much right as we can. Lord, help us to get more. It's healthy to have a humility about it and to know that you may have some stuff wrong. But we tend to think about our theology as, like, the doctrines we believe. Now, some people deride that. They actually mock that. Like, oh, you just have, um, you know, um, Jesus in your head, but not in your heart. Uh, that's garbage. Like, uh, the Bible's full of theology and teaching and truth and doctrine and dogmatic things. And that's all stuff we should absorb and hold to and believe as Christians. And it's beautiful and good when you do. What I want to talk about is the effect that theology has on the rest of you. And that's what I'll call your strong theology. So in your heart, if your theology is the way I'm using the term today, strong, it means it has the power to influence your very heart.

4:01 Now, um, that is valuable. That is invaluable. It's impossible to overstate how valuable this is. And you'll understand more as I get to the second question in my theological quiz. So the first question is, is the theology I have strong enough to impact my heart in that I sense and am aware of the fact that I am at peace with God?

4:21 If your answer is no, I have trepidation, I have hesitation, I go to pray. And I'm not really sure if he's really hearing me. Um, I don't really know if I really trust God. Your heart is not being affected by the theology that you have, perhaps even in your head. So let me, by way of your head, try to get to your heart and try to give you that strength to. So, Romans 5:1, 2. Let's analyze what we read. Therefore, since we've been justified by faith, we have peace with God.

4:50 That is, I have peace with God for specific reasons that are outlined in this text. I have peace with God because I've been justified by faith. So when Paul uses the word justified, he means you're made righteous. Made righteous before God. That's how he uses the term. You're made right with God. And since you've been justified by faith, that is just by believing, not by your actions, not by the things that you do, not by penance or indulgences or intercession of saints, for that matter, since it's Reformation weekend here, not by, uh, priests bestowing grace upon you, not by Mary or the intercession of others, not by your good works, not by your good works, but by faith.

5:31 That's powerful because it's by faith, because you know it's not by anything you do, but by simply your trust in Christ and the work that Jesus did. That's why you have peace. So if I feel, oh, Lord, I don't know if you're going to hear me as I pray. I don't know if you're going to receive me as I come to you. But are you coming through Jesus? Are you coming in truth through Christ?

5:51 Then if he receives Jesus, he will receive you. Because you've been justified by faith, Right? By faith. That's why you have peace with God. Because the peace you have is through our Lord Jesus Christ. So if Jesus is right with God and you're in Jesus, then you are right with God every moment of every day. As far as positionally. Now, there may be some issues in the relational aspect of your experience with God, in your commitment to Christ on some level. Um, sin issues, but positionally, like, are you a Son of God or not? Are you a child of God or not? Are you forgiven or unforgiven? That position you have, it's in Jesus.

6:31 So if you come to Jesus, come to God the Father through the Son, then you come the same way. The Son comes with his righteousness and his good favor. And the love the Father has for the Son is then bestowed on you. It's beautiful. Therefore, since we've been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. And then it gets even better because verse two, it says, through him, through Jesus, still through Christ, uh, we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand.

7:05 I love this verse so much. Um, this helped set me free because in my own heart I was aware that when I first came to Jesus, I sensed the grace of God. I sensed the. The clean slate I was given as a Christian, that my sins were washed away, that I was right with God. But the sins I committed subsequent to coming to Jesus, I wasn't confident that it was this covering that Christ has given me. This righteousness that he's given me was this constant maintained thing in my life that I'm clothed with his righteousness, not providing my own righteousness.

7:42 I wasn't aware of that really. And it was Scripture that helped me see it. And this verse is one of those passages that helped me see that as a Christian. Here's why. Because there are those who would say, and I'll preface it with this, there are those who would say that you initially get saved by grace. In fact, this is kind of the Catholic view of justification. You're initially saved by grace, your initial justification. But as you continue to be justified further in your life, you're going to be having to do works. And the works that you do will, uh, merit. That's a very important word I'm quoting from Trent here. Will merit an increase of righteousness, an increase of grace. You're going to be basically continuing accessing the grace of God through your works as you move forward. And it's complicated. The Catholic doctrine justification is complicated, but that is part of it. So this verse says something different, and it's comforting and it strengthens your heart and it brings you confidence before God. It says through him, we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand. That is an ongoing current condition that I currently, right now, am accessing God's grace. Not by my good works, no, by faith. I'm, um, accessing grace by faith. And it is that grace that I stand in, even right now, so that my initial justification is maintained. The, uh, same method in which I'm saved, grace and faith is the same way I stay saved. That, uh, I continue accessing grace today. This is beautiful. And this strengthens my heart. And I need it. And you need it. Your theology needs to strengthen your heart in grace. It says to be established by grace in Scripture. Be established. Let your hearts be established by grace. What a beautiful phrase we have.

9:19 Um, it tells you that you can come boldly to the throne of grace, that you may obtain grace and mercy to help in your time of need. You get to come boldly. Why can I come boldly because I come through Jesus. I come with his credentials, with his righteousness. It's a beautiful, beautiful thing. And this is why Romans 11:6, it makes it very clear that when Paul says, you have this access by faith, you have this access by faith, you have this access to grace. It specifically mentions, it's the grace in which we stand. This is all apart from works. Romans 11:6 reinforces this.

9:53 This is a good reformation passage for us to be in today. If it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works. Otherwise grace would no longer be grace. This is actually a really neat verse. I think Romans 11:6 is totally underrated by people because it's like a dictionary definition moment in the New Testament where Paul is defining his terms and he's saying, hey, I've been talking about works. I've been talking about grace.

10:19 I just want to make sure you understand these two are mutually exclusive concepts. If you do something by works, it's not by grace. If it's by grace, it's not by works. So if you add works, you have removed what? Grace. If you add grace, well, you must remove the works then. Or else grace doesn't even mean grace anymore. Let me read it to you again. If it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works.

10:44 Otherwise grace would no longer be grace. And this is a beautiful thing that we have in the New Testament that tells us that I'm saved by grace through faith, apart from works, lest anyone should boast. And that establishes your heart, and that brings you peace with God. So that you know, as you pray, as you fail, as you go before the Lord, that you are welcomed into his arms by the grace of Jesus Christ. Yes, you should have a repentant attitude towards sin. That doesn't mean you've fixed everything, but. But your heart is turned away from sin and towards the Lord. Yes, you need that. That's very important.

11:19 But it is only the work of Jesus that is the basis of your salvation. So the first question was, do you sense in your heart the peace that you have with God? That God is at peace with you, that you're at peace with him? That there's, uh, no longer what Romans earlier in the book talked about. The wrath of God is stored up against all unrighteousness and ungodliness of man.

11:41 There's no wrath of God stored up for you. It's not there because it's dealt with on the cross. And you come by grace through faith. It's beautiful. So that's the first question Let that sit in your heart. Let that rest in your heart. Let it impact your prayers. Let it impact your sense of peace. So that you, like a newborn Christian, like a Christian who just came to know Jesus like, uh, a day ago, you sense the fullness of the forgiveness that you have in Christ. You should be realizing that through Jesus, you've not only obtained access by faith into grace, but it's the grace that you're currently standing in right now. It's the same thing. It doesn't change as you get older in the Lord.

12:21 Then we get the next question. This is about again, if your theology is strong, because strong theology affects your heart. And I can't think of any better time to test your theology and the strength of it than in times of great suffering. And, uh, the question is, do you rejoice in suffering? Now, I want to say I have failed this test in my life. Okay?

12:41 I've definitely gone through some suffering where I was, like, not rejoicing in the suffering. And it was like the blinkers were on, and I was not seeing the glory that there is in my future, in my calling. I was clinging to it, but I wasn't, like, rejoicing in these things. Okay? I've definitely failed in this. And that testing revealed that there was an area of my own theology while it was mentally very strong in my heart, it was kind of weak when it came to suffering. And I think a lot of Christians will experience that themselves because suffering is hard. You're getting tested. You know, when Job was the target of Satan's attack, when Satan wanted to test Job wanted to attack Job. Like, he's thinking, how do I really mess him up? How do I test him? He tests him with suffering. Suffering presents a theological stress test towards your heart.

13:30 And it really tests if your theology is strong. And we see Paul's theology is strong. Paul, in the book of Philippians, um, in 1 Corinthians, he talks about his suffering. He talks about all the things he's gone through. And he had a strong theology regarding suffering because he could rejoice in all those things. Peter had a strong theology. Peter in one, Peter, he writes about his rejoicing and rejoicing in trials and all this. James had a strong theology. Rejoice in all the trials you experience.

14:00 It's in all their letters. It's super important. But I know I've had times where I didn't have that strong theology. And it was the trial and the test that showed it to me that even though in my head I was like, no, I do believe this, but my heart was, like, clinging, not letting go of it, but it was sort of clinging to it and not sort of founded on it. You know what I mean? So do you rejoice in suffering? Is the next question. And verses three through five will take us to that. It says here, um, after saying that, we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. So we're rejoicing right now about future glory, the future glory of God that is going to be displayed in his people, that is going to be displayed in the world, that's going to be the second coming, the new creation. No crying, no tears. We're in his very presence. All the beautiful, amazing, indescribably good things.

14:50 We rejoice in that. And it says, not only that, not only do I rejoice about some distant heaven, we rejoice in our sufferings. We rejoice in our sufferings. This doesn't mean I go like, oh, I just lost my loved one who means so much to me. I just found out I have cancer. I'm so happy about this. It's not dumb like that.

15:14 No, it's, I rejoice in, not about my sufferings. I'm happy, I'm suffering. That's not what we're saying. I rejoice in. As in, I'm in the middle of suffering, but I'm still going to rejoice. My suffering will not stop my rejoicing, because my theology is strong here. So it says, we rejoice in our suffering. Knowing, not hoping, knowing. Although the Bible often uses hope as a type of knowing about future events, but. So I shouldn't say that. But knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope.

15:46 Okay, what are we knowing? I'll get to verse five in a second. But what are we knowing? We are knowing that something good will come out of my suffering. So my suffering isn't inherently something good, but what will come forth from it is good. And this is exactly the area that, for me personally, got attacked when I was going through a time of deep suffering, was trying to perceive the good that might come out of it. And I've taught others not to do this. Like, uh, don't try to figure out the good that's going to come out of it. Because then you sort of limit yourself to believing God will bring good if you can think of the good he'll bring, right? Like, if my imagination can figure out how God will do a good thing through my suffering, then I'll trust He's doing a good thing through my suffering. But that's not how I know it. I know this because God tells me. I know this because I know that all things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to his purpose.

16:36 But that Romans 8:28 verse doesn't say, I know how all things work together for good. So this can stumble you, but you don't know how suffering is going to produce endurance. But you do know that it produces endurance. God tells you, my suffering will produce endurance. In my character, what is endurance?

16:54 I get through it and I keep going. I suffer and I keep on going. That's endurance. Endurance is just. It's something you don't learn any other way. You do not learn endurance any other way. You can see it exampled as you read about other people going through it. But until you experience trials, you don't know how to endure through them.

17:17 So it produces endurance, which creates you as a strong, solid Christian who, like Jesus who endured, or the apostles who endured, and even the apostles learned endurance. Jesus said, I will show him how much he has to suffer for my namesake about Paul. And so he had to learn to suffer. Peter, he was afraid of the suffering, uh, associated with Jesus, but he endured and he grew strong. And he was able to go through that and rejoice. In fact, after running and hiding or lying about even being a follower of Jesus and all that stuff, uh, denying Jesus and being ashamed and all that.

17:51 Peter then in Acts 4, he's praying after being beaten and threatened, and he prays for boldness that God would help him to go out and preach the gospel, him and all the others. And then they go out and they do it, and they're like, you can do what you want to us. We're going to obey God, not man. They learned that through going through the suffering.

18:10 So you can, too, if you feel like your theology is weak in this area, that you don't rejoice in suffering, maybe one of the effects of your suffering is that it was going to help you learn the process of how to rejoice in suffering. And that's a beautiful thing to think. Even the suffering that I see no purpose, no purpose in, no fruit of.

18:31 I am learning things through it. Um, even if it's how to suffer. And then you may be. You could be cynical and say, well, I don't want to learn how to suffer. There's no benefit in that. There really is benefit in that. It's sometimes hard to see it, but there really is. And people who've gone through the most will often tell you that that's the case. And I take their word for it, I really do. And I certainly take God's word for it. So endurance is produced through suffering and endurance produces what? Character.

18:58 And character. I want that more than anything. Character produces hope. And hope. Hope does not disappoint. What do you mean character produces hope? You know, the most vapid, characterless people, you know, tend to be like, all they care about is the moment. They don't see the value of the things in front of them. They don't see the importance of long term thinking and things like that. But endurance produces that kind of character where you care about what lasts and what matters and is when people get the bad news, the bad news, medical news and stuff, that all of a sudden they look at their lives and they're like, I'm going to start paying attention to things. I'm going to start living differently, behaving differently. So you get this. This is a transformative thing in our lives. Suffering produces endurance and endurance produces character. And character produces hope. Hope about our future, that same hope. He says, we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Well, I'll say, if you can't rejoice in the suffering you're in today, there may be a lack of your appreciation for the hope you have in front of you.

20:01 That very well may be because you have such incredible hope. You will be in the presence of God for all eternity, rejoicing. Whatever suffering you have right now, whatever pain, whatever dark days you have ahead, they are temporary and your glories are eternal. That gives you reason to have hope because hope does not put us to shame. Now you will not be ashamed of that hope because God's love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

20:32 This is, I think, hinting at the sealing of the Spirit. Like Ephesians says, the Spirit is the guarantee that we have eternal life, is that we are filled with the Spirit. And so it's just beautiful stuff. Two theological tests. Do you have incense in your heart? The peace that you have with Jesus Christ? The, uh, peace that you have in Christ with the Father. And do you rejoice in suffering? And if you fail these, then strengthen yourself, pray about it, see it as a goal.

20:59 I wanted to do it this way as a theological test because I have just been thinking about, um, the difference between having a lot of theological knowledge but not sometimes allowing that to impact our lives. And that is definitely a problem. We can all experience. The Bible warns us about this. It says knowledge itself puffs up, but love edifies. And this is where Paul, he's not speaking now. Paul loved knowledge. He had plenty of knowledge. Um, you know where the first Peter says to add to our faith virtue and to virtue knowledge. Right, that specifically told to add knowledge to our virtue and faith.

21:32 So it's good. But knowledge can be um, something where you have it and you don't realize something else is missing because you have such knowledge. And that's where knowledge can puff up. Right. So we bring in these other things to say. Let me test my theology to see if it has heart and if it has legs. And I can see that in my peace with God and in my suffering attitude, I could easily have said, uh, your love for your neighbor too, because, um, if anyone loves God, he's going to love those who are born of God. You can easily attest this other ways too. I just thought that would be something edifying and fruitful. And there was something else I was going to say.

22:09 Maybe I'll think of it later. I do that sometimes. I'll think, oh, I'll mention this later and then I forget it. I'm gonna go to your guys questions though here in a second. So, um, I will. Oh, I will highlight a couple things real quick. So there's a. As I'm getting ready to go to your questions, there's a men's conference coming up that's going to be at my church. It's just one day. It's just like from. I think it's. Don't quote me on the times. I think it's like 8:30 to 2 or something like that. Maybe it's a little later.

22:34 Um, but it's a shorter conference, just one day, just two speakers. I'm one of the speakers and it's going to be at Grace Evangelical Free Church in La Mirada, California, that you could just put Grace Ev Free in the search engine and you'll also find it and you guys are welcome to come. It's cheap, you're paying for not only the location, but, um, there's a breakfast, hot breakfast provided as well as hot lunch with smoked meat and stuff like that. So two meals, two speakers. I think it's like 40 something.

23:05 Um, but uh, I wanted to invite you guys, the men, if you can make it, maybe edify you, build you up. I'd love to meet you and hopefully, um, it'll strengthen your hearts. We need it. We need it. I'm going to be talking about how God's man is humble and man, I can't wait to have that. I think it's going to be really good, that topic. I think it's going to be so good, it's probably not what you're thinking because, uh, I think that humility handled biblically creates a lot of healthy boldness in us, and I want to see that. So, uh, all right, we're going to go to your guys. Questions and let's see here.

23:47 Um, making sure I'm just on the right questions for today. Yep. Okay. This is coming from question number two, from Paul something. It's. Sorry, the YouTube names are. Uh, YouTube did this thing. You guys know this, right? Like, it used to display when you ask questions, your channel name, the channel name that you choose, but instead now it gives your symbol thing. And that's often not even a name you wanted. It was just something, you know, that got put up when you signed up. So, um, anyway, Paul Lewis, I guess it is, says, is there biblical warrant to treat gay unions similar to polygamy?

24:28 Um, that is not something that the church should propagate or condone, but also not for the church to break up if done before conversion. Man, fantastic question. Okay, so first let's talk about polygamy and how that's handled and why. That's the premise of the question. Um, Scripture does not say that polygamists should break up. There isn't like a teaching that says that we don't have that as a principle anywhere in scripture that if someone's in a polygamous marriage, they should break up. But we do have teaching in scripture that says not to get into a polygamous relationship. We have the example of Adam and Eve, one man, one woman, and then they become one flesh. Well, if they're one flesh, adding another woman into the mix, there is a problem. They're not three becoming one.

25:11 Um, principally, it seems to violate the example. The first examples of polygamy are all bad. Uh, m. Just about every example. Polygamy is bad in the Old Testament. Then, uh, I've mounted a big case against polygamy. I'll link the videos below. I made one or two videos about polygamy where I gave, like, serious, thoughtful biblical analysis, going through a bunch of stuff, answering their arguments for polygamy, all that stuff. So I'll, uh, link it down below. You can get the full breakdown. But in the New Testament, while we have Jesus teaching against polygamy and we have the concept of, um, marriage being against polygamy, and we have all this other stuff.

25:49 We also have a command that if a person is going to be qualified to be an elder or a deacon for that matter, he has to be a husband of one wife. Now, that phrase, husband of one wife, it does rule out the polygamist. The polygamist is not a husband of one wife. And it doesn't only mean polygamy. It's bigger than that. It includes that.

26:09 Right. But the one woman man is a way to say it in English to make it feel. Feel more right for us. He's got to be a one woman man, meaning he's faithful to the one wife he's married to. He's faithful to her. And it's just one. It specifically says one, right? In Spanish. Uno. Because I can't remember. Mono. Mono. I can't remember what the Greek.

26:32 Um, anyway, one woman man. All right, Polygamists can't serve a ministry. So I did a video like, what do you do? And I talked about this, and I'll link it below. What do you do if a polygamist gets saved? And I handled this carefully and thoughtfully, and I went through scripture, and I also read like, uh, a paper written by African missionaries because they come across this problem regularly or at least with some regularity in certain communities where there's polygamists who get saved. And what do you tell them?

27:03 And I gave my answer, and I'll link it down below. All right. I won't get into all that because that's just the premise. Okay. If you're interested in my thoughts, I'll link it below. Now, the question you have is, given that view, let's say that Mike's right about that, um, and many churches have handled it that way.

27:19 Um, should we do that with gay unions? And the answer I'm going to give is no. And for several reasons. So marriage is. Polygamy is a complicated situation. Marriage is a holy and wonderful thing. Um, polygamy. When a person gets married to a second or third, fourth wife, it's not as though they're not actually married, but their marriage, each marriage is a violation of the other marriages that are happening there. So, uh, each woman is.

27:49 With each woman's relationship, he's unfaithful to the other women. And so it creates this constant problem where he has a duty to be faithful to multiple women, and yet he's not being faithful, because to be faithful to one is not faithful. You've broken God's picture of marriage. Right? It's damaged and broken. It's not godly um, but there is something at the core, marriage, that is something that is instituted by God. That is something that is honored by God. That is something that we are to hold up as lofty.

28:21 However, at the core of a gay union is an offense to marriage. It is an actual offense to marriage, to God's design. Now, some will hear me and think, mike, you're insulting gay people. And I'll be like, no, you're not using your brain. You're not using your brain. You're using your emotions. I'm not insulting anybody.

28:40 Let me give you another example. A man who shows up at a preschool who's wearing children's clothing and who walks into the preschool and says, I'm four. I'm going to be a student here. He is an insult, right? He is insulting what it means to be a child, obviously. Now, if someone goes, why are you being so rude to that man? I'll be like, why are you being emotional and weird?

29:05 He's just. He's taking something that's not true and pretending it's true, which is an affront to the truth of what childhood is and what it means and to the goodness of children and taking care of children, all that. When he tries to institute himself in their place, all that is true of homosexuality. Homosexuality, as uh, much as it may be a desire somebody wants and has and loves or a desire they hate and they struggle with, the homosexual relationship, the actual connection between a, uh, two men or two women, where they enter into a bond that they're trying to pretend is like marriage, that is an affront to what marriage actually is. Right? And even my cat is getting upset about it.

29:49 She's, uh, gonna make noise, I can tell. Just go sit in your spot. Now's not the time. So sorry. Oh, I'm getting distracted. So, um. In its very nature, so. Because the nature of homosexuality, like its very core nature, is an affront to the design of God and the will of God, and it is, in fact, always a sin. Whereas marriage is a beautiful godly thing. Polygamy introduces sin into a beautiful and godly thing, whereas homosexuality, that relationship, that sexual relationship and bond, is inherently sinful. It's not godly. It's not right? So, you know, um, you have to repent of homosexuality. You cannot remain a Christian and an active homosexual based on scripture.

30:40 Let me go to the scripture. Um, so it's in First Corinthians, chapter six, and I'll put it on your screen. Come on. Click, click. What is she doing? I'm just gonna ignore her chapter six. Um, it says, do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor. Nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

31:21 And such were some of you. So some of them literally were homosexuals. Literally were all those things. And they had to turn from that as they came to Jesus. That's the standard thing. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the spirit of our God. And I know the number one thing that people do at this point is they'll hear this verse I've given you and they'll, uh, throw out the hypocrisy claim. Right, Mike, are you saying all those other things? They also can't do that and be Christians. Um, and the claim is like, see, you're being hypocritical.

31:57 But what I've found when this claim comes out is they don't want me to actually be consistent and to do all the things on your screen here and to say all those things are required of Christians, what they want to do is say, you're a hypocrite, therefore embrace homosexual unions or homosexual marriage. And I'm like, that doesn't even follow logically. Like, I could be a hypocrite, but still be right about this. I'm just saying this logically. That does not follow.

32:20 But what we are saying here is. No, as Christians, you are calling. This is the clear thing. You are calling everyone to turn from these things as part of their commitment to Jesus. Turn from sexual immorality. That includes all of it. Turn from idolatry. You don't let idolaters continue using idols.

32:38 As a pastor, you wouldn't be like, I know I have couples that are sleeping together, but I'm okay with it. They're committing sexual immorality, but that's okay. Uh, you know, they were doing it before they were Christians. So, no, if you get saved, you stop. Uh, nor adulterers. No, that's. See, it's not okay. Including homosexuality, behavior, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards. Yes, it includes all of those.

33:03 No revilers or swindlers and all that. Yeah. You can't continue any of those behaviors as a Christian. So me saying, you can be part of the church. I won't break you up. I'm not going to condone what you did. But you guys are committed and you should honor the vows you've made to each other. I would say, no, no, no. That this is a situation where the vow itself is evil. The vow is immoral. Okay? A union that you've committed to with another male as a male or a female as a female, um, where you are trying to imitate marriage is in itself an offense to God. Let me give you another example of a vow you should break. Let's say that you were a Buddhist before you became Christian. And before you became Christian as a Buddhist, you vowed to follow the path of the Buddha. You vowed. You committed to it as a Christian. You must rescind that vow.

33:54 You have to stop. That was a bad vow. You got to back out of it and say, nope, I'm not going to. This isn't a situation where Proverbs says, like, a righteous man keeps his word even to his own hurt. Like, it's not that. This is. You need to back out of it. So this is very clear. This is like a super easy question to answer. It's hard in our culture for people to hear it, but that's why we need to say it clearly and loudly and make sure they understand. Yes.

34:18 Uh, anybody who. In a gay marriage who's watching this and you're like, I think Jesus is real, you do have to leave this. You have to leave this doesn't mean you can't love that person. You love them by leaving it. You love them by stopping the sin that you're committing with them. That is the most loving thing you can do. And it will cause fallout because sin makes things really messy. But you just got to dig through the mess. Now, that'd be my counsel to you. It's a way to honor Christ so that you can say, as 1 Corinthians says, such were some of you, you could say, I was like that, but I'm not.

34:48 You really gotta. Yeah, go on your little spot. All right, number three, Question number three. This one comes from milk the cow. Who says, what are your thoughts on churches with multiple campuses? Good, bad. I do not like the model, but do know. Do not know if there's a biblical argument against it. I'll try to handle this one thoughtfully. Okay, so I have several thoughts. Um, multi campus church is a big category and there's lots of different ways people do it. Um, but I think. And if I'm wrong, someone tell me here. I think that generally, if you say, I have a multi campus church, one of the things that you mean Is we have a pastor who's at one campus, he preaches on the screen of other campuses so that there's a pastor who's teaching and it's remotely broadcast out. And um, then the other churches sort of like he's just such a good dynamic teacher that you just, you know, you figure you can spread this out. Now in one sense this could be better than a big mega church in one sense, because you've got um, a smaller community here, a smaller community there. You have local pastors who are still available and are trying to interact with and get to know people. Um, you might have a local worship team as well. And so there can be good things there. Um, but every, every one of these things, to me they come with pros and cons. And here's the caution I have.

36:09 Usually when I hear people answer these questions, it's almost as though they're asking whether or not these are legitimate gatherings of Christians. Like that's not really a church. And I'm like, I don't say that. And I don't think you should say that either. Um, here you have believers gathered. Well, they're not really believers because they don't have robust enough theology. Ah, no, uh, I think they're believers. A lot of them. Okay. And I'm sure that some are like tares amongst the wheat. But there are those who want to say that they're all tares and they're like, you haven't been to these places, you haven't talked to these people. They're not all tares. Just because you have a multi site church doesn't mean you're a bunch of tares. That's ridiculous to say this. It's really ridiculous. It's really judgmental in the unchristian way. As in you're judging things you don't even understand.

36:52 I've seen these churches, I've gone to congregations and met with people and there's many genuine God loving Christians. Although there are problems, and that's the balance I want to have, is I want to say, yeah, uh, there are troubles and problems when you have this method of doing church. It tends to be something that comes with baggage.

37:12 So, uh, one of the problems is, among many, um, challenges they'll have is that while they can spread quickly, they can grow fast and they have like teaching that is considered dynamic and interesting and hopefully good and godly. Hopefully. I don't know, some of them are, some of them aren't. Uh, one of the problems is that the pastor is very distantly removed from the people he's ministering to. And so he is purely a lecturer and he's not a pastor for the vast majority of the people who sit under his teaching.

37:43 Um, now you could say the same thing about me. Um, I'm more of, I'm teaching remotely here. This is why I've said to people, and some of you guys, you think of me as your pastor and I know what you mean by that. But I don't ever say that. I don't say I'm your pastor because I don't think that what I'm doing is fulfilling the role that I see in Scripture.

38:03 Where we use that term pastor to describe an elder, a bishop, an overseer, those are synonymous terms. All three mean the same thing in the New Testament. Um, I'm not doing that job for you because it is a local job. So here you have a remote guy who's literally not your pastor, but he's your pastor, but he's not.

38:24 That can be a bit of a problem. The tendency amongst these sorts of churches is growth is number one, growth is primary. That can be a tendency where in one sense they're really charging out trying to like make a big difference. But in other sense a problem that comes with this sort of setup is that you are very concerned about numbers of people attending the fellowship and that can't really be your primary concern. But it can become that.

38:49 Um, another thing is that there's an inherent weakness in this. When you have a large church with one guy who's always teaching on Sundays, you don't rotate or something that inherently is, um, uh, the whole church is affected when the one guy retires, moves, picks a different job, uh, they're affected in a massive outsized way. One person can massively have an outsized effect on the whole, ah, church because it's multi site, you multiply the impact of that.

39:22 Another problem of it is that you have lots of gifted people in the body of Christ and you really want to raise up new teachers. And by just putting one guy on all these different sites, it's like, come on, is he really the only guy that can be teaching the Word right now? Shouldn't we be raising up and discipling people to be teachers? So it seems like a bad long term plan for that reason.

39:43 But that doesn't mean these aren't churches or that God isn't using them greatly, or that the guy who's on screen isn't a gifted communicator or even a gifted biblical teacher. But we can all admit the statistical likelihood that you have solid theology coming from a multi site campus is probably lower than if you have a non multi site church.

40:04 It's just what we experience in real life when we're like, yeah, these are often kind of like, um, uh, you know, you know, I don't know, how do I describe it? It's often hypey Joel Osteen or Mike Todd or one of those kinds of things where you're like, this is, um, what has been called sermonettes for Christenettes.

40:29 Frequently you'll see that. But not all of them are like that. I maintain and I hope is true. All right, number four. Um, should Christians use the word vibes in our speech? Oh man, I went through this years ago in my own mind. Should we use the word vibes in our speech? Isn't that new age language belief? Shouldn't we be careful of the words we say in everyday conversation?

40:59 Great question. Let's think about it together. Drinking coffee out of my giant teacup today. Cheers to those of you who are drinking your coffee. Um, so the word vibes. I have not done a study on the history of the word vibes, but I do have some principles I understand about language in general, and that is that. Here's the phrase from the old logic, uh, and critical thinking class I took.

41:27 Um, language is a system of shared conventions. That's very, very true. Language is always moving and shifting. Um, language changes meaning over time. That is something we should acknowledge, we have to acknowledge lest we cause problems. So knowing that language changes and language moves, that there are words that were used even in the Bible, as I understand it, that would have had a lot of pagan connotation but were then used differently because the author of the New Testament just or the Old writes it in a way that is showing you what they mean by it.

42:05 Um, the word temple, before there was ever a godly temple, before there was ever a Christ, like temple, temple was a word that was only used to refer to pagan, ungodly things until all of a sudden God says, here's how you're going to build it, right? And they build the temple. First the tabernacle, then the temple.

42:25 Some of the elements that were in there, um, the, uh, cherubim would have been used in pagan religions, that concept. But they still used it, but they're using it with its proper meaning and in a proper way. So I'm not saying that that's the case for the word vibes. I'm just saying in principle, language changes over time. We should allow it to be changing. And we should acknowledge what the word means amongst the populace. And this is why you need new editions of dictionaries.

42:48 Language does change, although sometimes they're changing it because they have political agendas and all that. Yeah, um, and that's wrong. But the word vibes, okay, so let's say it comes from good, uh, vibrations. Good vibes. There's definitely New age connection there. I know enough to know that, um, I avoided it in like the 90s. I remember specifically 90s, early 2000s. Like, I tried really hard not to say the word vibes. And I was kind of bothered when I heard Christians say it because I thought they're saying it with a New age meaning behind it.

43:20 And that's the thing I'm worried about is not the word, but what's the meaning behind the word. Um, but really the way it seems, in my opinion, to have entered into our discussions and our talk is vibes often is used at least, and I use it now, but I don't use it at all to refer to some new age, like actual vibrations that are affecting people. Like quantum mechanics. Like, you know, people always make up stuff about quantum mechanics to be spiritual and all the quantum stuff, all that is garbage. Um, often when I say vibes or when people say vibes today, I think they often mean the, um, subconscious sort of impressions they're getting about the situation. So if you look at a guy who walks into a department store and he's wearing dirty clothes, he obviously hasn't changed in a long time and he looks very angry. You might be like, that guy's putting off a pretty scary vibe.

44:12 And I don't mean in any way, shape or form. Something new Age. I don't mean anything theologically New Age. I could have said he's putting off a scary impression, um, signals. He's putting off scary signals. You could say that as well. And to me, as I understand the way English is being used today, that word carries those kinds of meanings. Um, another word like this is the word karma, where often people will say karma and they don't at all mean the Hindu version of karma. In fact, almost never do M they mean this in America. When I hear the word karma used, nobody means what the Hindus mean.

44:50 Karma is, um, this is the stored up debt you have from past lives. So if I go, well, I tried to get a job and I just had bad karma, um, or something like that, um, or instant karma, right? Those compilations, instant karma, where someone's being a punk and then something bad happens to them. That's actually not what karma means, is my understanding. No, no. Karma is like old school stuff, like stuff that happened years ago, like lives ago, that's affecting you today. Why was I born poor? You were born poor because you must have been a jerk in a previous life.

45:26 That's karma. Nobody means that. Now. Karma is a word, unlike vibes. I won't use karma that way because it still carries connotations that I think are unchristian. Even if you don't mean it in that way, you do mean that there's this sort of invisible force that's bringing morality, moral consequences to people and you're specifically not crediting it to God. So I avoid the term karma for that reason, but I would use the word vibes in certain contexts for the other reason.

45:55 And, um, that's how I process that. So, yeah. Is there a scripture that says, uh, not to use terms? Um, not really. This is an issue of wisdom. So I wish I had a verse to share with you. I'll just say the Bible takes terms and changes them and uses them in different ways. Sometimes, uh, the way Paul grabs words and sometimes gives them new meanings, specific Christian connotations like agape, the word for love.

46:19 He did that. That wasn't already what people thought about the term. Um. And, um. Anyway, there's more I could say, but I'm taking too long. So I'm going to go to the next question. Number five. This is, um, from Nordy. Nordy 15. And this is. We've got all ten questions for today. Uh, so sorry if you didn't get your question in. You can check the website BibleThinker, we have search features there that let you see if maybe I've already answered your question. Maybe that's why we didn't take it.

46:46 Um, regarding Matthew 16:24, he says at the time Jesus said it, what do you think the disciples understood when Jesus said, take up your cross? I imagine this would have confused them prior to Jesus sacrifice. You know, I have thought the same thing. Let's read it. So imagine you're one of the disciples.

47:06 You're following Jesus, okay? You're walking with him for a significant period of time. He has said he's going to like, be crucified. But you guys are like, maybe you're thinking maybe that was metaphor. Like, I don't know what he meant by that because you're not really believing that yet. Um, so, um, here, let me back up a little and we'll take even a bigger portion and maybe this will give us a clue as to how they felt about it. So verse 21 of Matthew 16. From that time, Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes and be killed. And on the third day be raised.

47:43 Just straight up tells him, I'm going to suffer, be killed. Um, on the third day I'll be raised. And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, far be it from you, O Lord. This shall never happen to you. But he turned and said to Peter, get behind me, Satan, for you are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.

48:06 Keep in mind that Jesus was willing to strongly rebuke people when strong rebuke was necessary. Um, so how did they feel about the cross? Well, you can look at how they felt about Jesus cross. They were like, no, right? Peter, I think speaking in a way that probably represents the opinions of the other disciples as well. He says, no, Lord. Far be it from you, Lord. So he thinks, no way. You're not going to get crucified. Then Jesus told his disciples something even more personal. He says, if anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

48:41 For whoever would save his life will lose it. But whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man, uh, give in return for his soul? When he said this, what were they thinking? Jesus had not yet been. We always read it as New Testament believers.

49:03 We know all the way through the Book of Revelation. We're good. We know this stuff. We read it and we know exactly what it means. Jesus is calling me to lay down my life as I follow him, knowing that anything I lose, even death in following Jesus, is worth it. He's calling me to take up my cross. I die to myself and I die to this world. These are the two things I die to. The world doesn't have power and control over me, and my own life does not hold me back from following Jesus. Beautiful, lofty things. What did they think it meant?

49:33 Well, we can guess. I mean, it doesn't really say, does it? Like, we don't have any discussion from the disciples after this moment. The transfiguration happens next, I don't think in any of the gospels, uh, that I can think of. Do we have any commentary where one of the disciples says, what they thought this meant or what they were considering. If it's there, it's not coming to my mind, so I'll proceed based on that. Um, so what do they think it meant?

49:59 Well, they had just had Jesus tell them, like, I'm going to be killed and rise again. And then they go, no, no, no, not, not you. And he was basically, yeah, I'm going to double down on that. And then he says, and you need to deny yourself, take up your cross and follow me. Um, we know that some of the things they were believing at the time was that the Messiah was going to have a military victory over Rome, that he was going to charge in with, with ultimately armies and overcome. Whether it was miraculous, Gideon type, they destroyed themselves, or if it was gathering, uh, together the people of Israel to physically fight and rebel. Whatever it was, it was going to be conquering Rome and establishing Jerusalem and becoming the king, the physical king of Israel, ousting Herod and becoming the king, ousting Caesar. You know, as far as control over Israel and becoming the king, that's what they expected.

50:51 We also know that the cross was specifically a Roman method, uh, of killing people, especially people who were guilty of, like, sedition and, uh, things like that. So it's conjecture on my part that maybe, purely, maybe I could easily be wrong. The disciples may have thought Jesus is asking us to be willing to die for the cause which he was.

51:17 But in their minds, the cause was including overthrowing Rome. And, um, uh, they were kind of waiting on him to give the word, you know, on when that would happen. That's how I interpret it. Um, and so if I had to guess, I would think that they might have just had a skewed version of what it meant to take up their cross. It's like risk crucifixion at the hands of the Romans because they'll see you as an enemy, because we're going to be, uh, having our kingdom here on earth. And, um, and instead it was, um, still risking crucifixion by the Romans, but for a different reason. A different reason. It was just for preaching the Gospel and for drawing people to the kingdom that is eternal. Um, as Jesus says, my kingdom is not of this world, otherwise my servants would fight my conjecture. So take it for what you will. All right, number six, it says, uh, here from, uh, ardm. Prote, Prote. He says, since the Lord judged David guilty of murder for direct Uriah to the front lines, should the Lord not also be guilty for directing lies? Leviticus 19:11, 1st Kings 22, 19, 23. It's interesting the way this is worded. Um, uh, I wonder where you're coming from, to be honest. This is the way it's worded. Should, um, not the Lord be guilty of directing lies? So we're going to read these passages, and we'll see if I can answer it. Um, obviously, God.

52:41 You have a concept of God that, uh, is Christian, you know, the Lord's not guilty of anything. Guilt. Um, he's not guilty of anything. He's never been guilty of a thing ever. As far as, like, moral guilt. But, um, we can't analyze the passage. He says, you shall not steal. You shall not deal falsely. You shall not lie to one another.

53:02 Um, shall not swear falsely by mine. Swear by my name falsely, and so profane the name of your God. I am the Lord. Okay, and then, so you have the commandment here about lying. And then you have the other verse that you mentioned, which was 1st Kings, 22:19. Something went wrong there. It's my in button. My in button is glitching, so it only sometimes registers.

53:33 All right, verse 19. And Micaiah said, therefore hear the word of the Lord. I saw the Lord sitting on his throne and all the host of heaven standing beside him on his right hand, uh, and on his left. And the Lord said, who will entice Ahab that he may go up and fall at Ramoth, Gilead? And one said one thing, and another said another.

53:59 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord saying, I will entice him. And the Lord said to him, by what means? So this is where God's going to be judging Ahab. Ahab is doing evil, and God's going to judge him. And so there's like, basically the plan on how it's going to happen. And he says, I'll entice him. And we don't know much about what spirit this is. It says. And the Lord said to him, by what means? And he said, I will go out and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets, his false prophets. By the way, that's the context, not true prophets.

54:32 He had heaped up a number of false prophets. Remember Elijah on Mount Carmel? And he said, you are to entice him, and you shall succeed. Go out and do so. Now. Therefore, behold, the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these, your prophets. The Lord has declared the disaster for you. So then, uh, that takes place.

54:53 So is God guilty of lying? There's a couple ways of, um, analyzing this one. Is what I started with, which is principally as a matter of faith, as a matter of clear teaching in scripture. God is holy, holy, holy. He is thrice holy. He is not guilty of anything ever. Um, that is a fair answer. Some of you may think that this. Well, that's just, um, not answering the question, Mike. No, no. It's not explaining how it works with that verse, but it is answering the question. I have a clear teaching of Scripture, and here I have a challenging passage that is confusing. And I can use a clear teaching of scripture to help ground me so that I don't go weird and sideways in a challenging passage of scripture. That is a wonderful practice for us to have. Okay, that's the first thing I would say is that's good. You know, God is holy, thrice holy. You know that he does no evil.

55:42 Um, he did not do some moral flaw here. Um, we also know that, though there's a command about lying, we also know that God allows people to be deceived and even participates sometimes in some kinds. This is. I'm going to say this because I think it's true, but I know. I know I'm going to get taken out of context. Oh, uh, it's going to be. It's going to be nasty, too. So, um, let me put it this way, because I know someone's going to take me out of context and quote me in a way I don't mean. Um, uh. On the cross, did God trick Satan?

56:23 I mean, Satan put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot to kill Jesus, to betray him, to get him killed. Satan was actively working in the Pharisees and Sadducees. Did he trick Satan? Well, if Satan had known that Jesus through the cross was going to redeem mankind, if he'd understood this, would he have done it? Not likely.

56:51 He tricked him. You could call that deception, but this would be moral. For instance, when Corrie Ten Boom hid Jews, uh, from the Nazis, that was a moral deception. It was moral. This was not an immoral act. And so this, um, is a moral judgment in this passage that we're looking at. It is a moral judgment of God upon Ahab. But it's not just God, like, leaning into Ahab's ear and whispering things that aren't true. That is not how it happens. God does not actually lie. What he does is he judges Ahab through his own false prophets.

57:25 And I think, and this is one theory that I've heard that I would lean towards that. The Spirit. We don't know anything about the Spirit. But it feels a little bit like the book of Job. Right? The spirit came forward and stood before the Lord saying, I'll entice him. Right. Remember in Job, the book of Job, Satan, uh, the sons of God are gathered before the Lord. And Satan is gathered in. There comes in their midst, and God's like, have you considered my servant Job?

57:52 And Satan says, well, you know, he would curse your name if, uh, not for all the blessings you've given him. And so he then tests Job. Does God test Job? Well, sort of. Does he allow Satan to attack? Yeah, in big picture, God takes away all Job has and strikes him. You could say that in a sense, but in the nitty gritty of it, that's God's sovereignty in act. But the actual actors on the ground is Satan. Satan's the actual actor on the ground. And so here we have this spirit who goes out into the ears of false prophets to deceive and Ahab in order to doing something dumb.

58:32 God is using the liars who have been lying to Ahab the whole time that he's trusting instead of following God in order to judge him. So I think that this is an appropriate act of judgment that comes, uh, by way of these false prophets deceiving Ahab and him yielding to them. But I do not think God is guilty of some sort of sin in this. And I do think that, um, there are times where, uh.

59:02 There are times where misleading people in certain circumstances is appropriate even for humans to do, not just for God to do. And we have examples of this. We have the Egyptian midwives who, um. And the thing is, people will always use this out of context. They'll take it as excusing themselves for all their little white lies they tell and everything else. And. And it just becomes like there's no truth in them anymore. Um, so I'm not talking about that, but I'm saying the Egyptian midwives were tasked with killing the Hebrew children as they were born. And they deceived, they lied to Pharaoh, and they're applauded for doing it. I've never heard anybody say they should have told Pharaoh the truth. Actually, we've been saving them. And then the pharaoh would send other people to kill the babies, right? Instead, they protected these little babies, and they did so by deceiving Pharaoh.

59:50 They're looked at highly for it. Rahab sent spies out the other way, and she's looked at highly for misleading the spies about. Or, sorry, misleading the guard, uh, in, uh, Jericho about the location of the spies. Oh, they went out that way she's lauded exactly for that. In both of these cases, there are high stakes. People's very lives are at stake. Evil actors are looking to hunt down innocent people and. And then they are rightfully deceived as they do so. So I think that that's an example of a case where deception is appropriate in Scripture. Um, but then there's going to be like a kid who's like, well, I lied to my parents because otherwise they're mean to me. And it's like, that's not what I'm talking about. But I do want to teach the unvarnished reality of what Scripture says there. So, no, I don't think God is guilty of anything here. I think he used deception, not he didn't deceive directly or personally. He sovereignly used the deception from this spirit through the fake prophets and Ahab to judge him. And that. That was a righteous act.

1:00:51 Um, all right, let's go to question number seven. This is anonymous, and it says, how do you plant seeds or spread the gospel in situations like when you're at the grocery store, at the bank, etc. I feel burdened with compassion to share Jesus, but not sure how. Um, I fall short in this area myself. I wish I had better advice for you. I want to say, keep asking this question of other people. I'll serve a couple thoughts, but keep asking it of other people who, uh, are better at it. Okay. Because I feel like I myself am not that great at this. M.

1:01:21 So some things that have aided me in my weakness in this area of, like, just quick passing by somebody in that moment and they're trying to think of something to share, um, as opposed to, like, going out to do an outreach or getting to sit with someone for a longer conversation. Um, uh, gospel tracts have been helpful for me. I walk up and say, uh, you know, hey, did you get one of these? And that's a phrase I learned from Ray, uh, Comfort, did you get one of these? They found that pragmatically that was more useful than saying, can I give you this? Can I give you this? Comes off way different than, did you get one of these? Um, or you can say other things. Figure it out on your own if you want to say something else. But, um, the handing out of a gospel tract is kind of cool because you don't get to say much to someone who you're just passing by. And, uh, Ray Comfort, uh, they have a lot of good gospel tracks you can check out. LivingWaters.com is the website you can buy some tracks from them, and there's a variety, and a lot of them are meant to be interesting or maybe a little funny. And so it's kind of trying to get past that inherent strangeness that you're handing something to somebody. And I know a lot of people deride gospel tracts, and they even joke. I even heard people mock.

1:02:36 Uh, I won't say who. I heard a prominent Christian mock handing out gospel tracts. And, um, obviously some tracts are lame and some are good, but I felt like that was just very unwise in, uh, that moment, an uncharacteristically unwise moment from this person. I won't highlight them because of that, because they're usually very wise.

1:02:54 But I would just say this seems strange to me to mock the handing out of the gospel. Well, that doesn't work. No, I mean, I've talked to plenty. I know people who got saved because someone gave them a gospel tract. It does work. And I don't know what you mean by only doing things that work. Uh, what do you do that works? Oh, well, uh, I do this thing where I spend 45 years getting to know somebody, and then they finally get saved. And I can tell you about my friend who got saved. Great. Now what do you do for the rest of the world?

1:03:22 Nothing. Yeah, ignore all that. Right. I encourage you going for it. Um, as far as other advice, breaking the ice and stuff like that, I, um, feel as clumsy as you do, and I still can do it, but I just feel as clumsy as you. So I don't really have tips. Maybe you guys can help out, share some tips in the chat, and hopefully there'll be something good there. Let's go to the next question. Number eight.

1:03:46 This is from, uh, Satchel 1300, who says, how does capital punishment mesh with unlimited grace? If you can't out sin the grace of God, why should we end someone's opportunity to accept that grace? This actually follows kind of the Pope's logic, part of it. The second half of your question. The second question follows the Pope's logic, um, that in, uh, committing, um, the death penalty on somebody, you kill them, they can no longer turn to Christ. And so you don't want to take away their opportunity to come to Jesus.

1:04:22 Um, and that sounds very pious. That sounds very nice. But I just want to highlight one thing. This is a rational, logical argument appealing to emotions, but it's a logical argument against doing what God clearly says to do in Scripture. I'm hesitant to follow such arguments. Yeah, that sounds wise. Right? Well, there's a way that seems right to man in the end thereof is death. The word of God has made it very clear the death penalty is to be acted out and that God will hold people, nations guilty if they do not enact the death penalty for murder.

1:05:00 That's a really scary concept. And that is in the scripture. Romans reiterates these things. The government, they're God's avenger. It's God's avenger. So just as you cannot forgive someone on God's behalf, uh, you can only echo the forgiveness of the grace of Jesus. You cannot excuse somebody from a death penalty when God demands that it be enacted, uh, in real life. Now, what if somebody is, we can stress test this a bit and say, what if somebody is a Christian and they get the death penalty?

1:05:33 Are they still forgiven? Is giving them the death penalty a way of saying your sins are unforgiven? No, nobody thinks this. Nobody thinks this. We all know that that guy or woman, if they are killed according to the death penalty, but they have truly given their lives to Christ, then they are going to be in heaven, they're going to have eternal life. So we don't for a second think the death penalty means you are unforgiven. That's the first part of your question. How does capital punishment mesh with unlimited grace? Well, we just look at them as different things. We look at these different concepts that when I go to jail for my crimes or get capital punishment for my crimes, I'm not doing it for forgiveness of my crimes. I'm doing it because it's the proper penalty for what I've done. And God has commanded that in society we should enact penalties for crimes if it's just an act of obedience to God. You're not saying the person's unforgiven before God. If they go to jail and then they come out, it doesn't mean they are forgiven now that they've, you know, some say they've paid their debt to society, um, in a sense they've experienced a punishment for something they've done. There's been a demonstration of righteousness. There's been something restorative for the families and for those who were hurt by that person, if what they experienced was justice.

1:06:47 Um, but let's say somebody goes to jail for drunk driving and they kill your sister and they're in jail for. I have no idea what the actual consequence is. I'm in California. So let's assume they won't go to jail for the right amount of time and they go in there for like two Years. Um, um, they've committed manslaughter. They've actually killed somebody. Two years later they come out.

1:07:12 Are we to believe that they are now forgiven because they went to jail? No. What if they went for longer? Does that make them forgiven? No. Forgiveness is an entirely different category. Punishment from the state is not about forgiveness. It's not about grace. It's not about working off your moral debt. It's about righting the wrong that was done in society. It's purely about justice. So I think of these as different categories. The Bible treats them as different categories. And that's how I think we should follow Scripture. God demands that we do it. It says, uh, your second question was, if you can't out sin the grace of God, why should we end someone's opportunity to accept that grace?

1:07:52 That question feels a little disconnected. So you can't out sin the grace of God. I don't know why that means, um, you can't enact the death penalty according to what God has commanded. Like, I just. I'm not seeing the connection there. So maybe I'm missing something. But I will say this. Um, the argument that you should not do the death penalty because what if the guy stays alive for another 20, 30 years and he gives his life to Jesus? That is a pure hypothetical argument. There is no statistical reality connected to it that I'm aware of. There is no proof that it's true. It is just a hypothetical argument that tugs at your love for Jesus and your love for others.

1:08:29 In my own view, I think that somebody knowing they will face the death penalty in a week or a month is highly motivating for them to get their lives right with God. I think it's incredibly motivating. And that same person being told you have life in prison may actually have less motivation to get right because now they know they've got decades ahead of them, most likely.

1:08:50 Uh, so again, I don't even think the motivation thing works personally, but it's a logical argument that goes against direct teaching in Scripture. This is what you do to honor God. So I don't follow it. Anyways, I know I feel pretty strong on this topic. I think the Scripture is so clear that Christians need to get back to what God says about the death penalty, which is why I've made some videos on it and you can Google it.

1:09:13 Death penalty Mike Winger and I will also link below one or two videos that I've done on the topic. Number nine. Cameron Donaldson says, How far should we take first? Timothy 3:2. How far should we Take it to the end of the world. Um, I'm joking about translating Bibles everywhere. Um, if an unmarried, believing man had pre. Okay, before I read your question, we'll read the passage because I feel like it'll help. Um, an overseer must be above reproach. The husband of one wife, sober minded, uh, self controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach. And it continues, gives you more requirements. And again, I reiterate, because this is not what has been taught inside even some of the calvary chapels I've been part of in the past. Um, overseer, bishop, and elder are synonyms for the same position.

1:10:10 It's what we call pastor most commonly in English. They're synonyms. You can look them up. You can look at how they're used. They are synonyms. They mean the same position. They're not synonyms to the point where they always are used in every context in Greek to always mean the same thing. I'm not saying that. I'm saying in the New Testament, they're clearly used for one position that overlaps and is used, described in different ways. Elder overseer, um, bishop. And we get pastor from the concept of a shepherd, and that's a more loose term that New Testament uses for leadership. But we mean overseer when we say it in English generally.

1:10:44 All right, so here it is on your screen. And your question was, um, if an unmarried believing man had premarital sex but then went on to marry a different woman and has been faithful throughout the marriage, is he disqualified? So, um, that, uh, is a challenging question. I'm going to say. My answer would be, and I'll tell you why in a second, but not automatically, but possibly. And it's because people are so different and situations are so different.

1:11:18 So these requirements for an elder are who he is, not who he has always been. That's how I take the passage. It's all present tense. An overseer must be. It doesn't say must have always been. Now, I'm not done answering the question yet. So for those who are concerned, uh, please hear me out. Hear the whole answer must be above reproach.

1:11:43 So what if he wasn't above reproach before? What if when he was in his 20s, he was a Christian and he did some things that were certainly not above reproach. He had a drinking problem, he did this and that, and then he got right. He was already a Christian, but he was messed up and he got right. And it's been 10 years, and the man has exhibited every evidence of faithfulness. And, and he's fulfilling these requirements now, not for five minutes, but long term. He is, as far as you can tell, the guy's above reproach, he's faithful to his wife, he's a one woman man. He may have fooled around before, but no, he's a one woman man now. Uh, he's sober minded, he's self control, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He manages his household well. He does all this stuff now.

1:12:31 So then we enter into this is the issue. This is why I say not necessarily, but maybe as, uh, far as, is he disqualified? It's challenging if someone doesn't have a permanent track record of behaving this way from at least when they got Christian or at least when they were on the radar of our lives. You met him when he was 20 or whatever. You don't know his life before that. Um, but if they don't have a long term, permanent record of fulfilling these requirements of being this kind of person, you, at least in their adult life, then you have to wonder if the person they're presenting, uh, as is real. That's the scary part. Like if the guy was previously this, this and this disqualifying thing and then he seems to have gotten right and it's been a few years, the thing in the back of your head is, I know he's capable of this. He's done it before.

1:13:20 How do I know he's changed? And that is a tricky question that I don't have a way to answer it for every situation. Uh, you just take each situation individually. But my principle is if the person truly fits all these requirements, then he is qualified to be in that position. But one more caveat. Some sins are so dangerous to the body of Christ that you wonder if you can ever truly trust that person, even if they are reformed. And those kinds of sins are things like molesting, uh, children.

1:13:56 Things like, um, the things that make the body unsafe to that person. Uh, giving them power puts them in a position to take unique advantage of people. Have they taken advantage of people using position before they're an abusive leader? These are things I'm more worried about because the stakes are high. The stakes are high. So complicated. Lots of wisdom is needed to do this. They may appear to fulfill all these requirements, but maybe they don't. In reality, that takes a lot of wisdom.

1:14:26 But it's all based on the principle. Not that the guy's always been this way, but that he is this way now. And that you can trust. That's the part that's hard. That you can trust that this really is him now. And if you can't trust that, then that gives you a legitimate pause. Um, assuming you're walking in wisdom and not just, you know, something else.

1:14:49 All right, last question. This comes in from J.D. gonzalez, who says, in the spirit of Reformation Day tomorrow, what are some things that the modern church needs to reform in what would be part of Mike's Luther's 95 thesis? Oh, I don't know, man. I would need to, like, pray and think about that for months, probably, to be honest. Um, but what are some things that the church needs reformation on? Um, okay, take my answer with a grain of salt. I have not had time to ponder it. Um, so I'll try to, in that spirit, speak to it. Um, um, we need reformation on discipleship, uh, is one thing. And I know that it was only after, um, I was no longer even serving.

1:15:37 No, that's not true. During my time serving in pastoral ministry for, like, 14 years, uh, at my church, um, my previous church, I feel as though, you know, here's how it is as a pastor. You inherit a way of doing ministry, and you inherit a, um, ministry most of the time. Sometimes you're planting a church and then the way is established by you. But most often you inherit all these things. And it was over time, I became more and more aware that what I had inherited and then what I continued to do lacked intensive, significant, serious discipleship for Christians, both in the youth ministry as well as the men's ministry as well as the larger church, that discipleship itself was lacking. And when I say discipleship, I mean, like, you're really trying to actively encourage Christians to follow Jesus in their daily lives, to really live it out, to deal with sin, but to become people of godly character, to, like what First Peter says, add to your faith virtue, and to virtue knowledge. And to knowledge self control.

1:16:45 To self control, perseverance, like, go down the list and like, this is. There's such goodness in that and such need in that. And I think that there tends to be a lack of that, um, in the modern way that we do church. Um, um, that's something that's lacking. The other stuff, I mean, gosh, I won't try to give you a full list, but the seriousness that we take God, that we take scripture, that we take our faith, is really, really important.

1:17:18 And we do tend m in the modern sort of Westernized kind of version of things, we tend to take our relationship with God as this experiential personal experience. So that, and it is that. I'm not saying it's not that, but we can make it where it's this sort of all about how it makes me feel, um, how it encourages my life and it's less about my duty before God. So I would want to add that back in. I have a duty before God, I have a responsibility before God.

1:17:51 And that's something that I've seen sometimes lacking. Uh, surely there's plenty of other stuff. The lack of biblical teaching in churches is really, really sad. When me and my wife, uh, were looking for a new fellowship, um, where we were going to, where are we going to land, where we're going to be for the church we'll serve and be part of, um, and join to those people. You know, we looked a lot in our area.

1:18:15 Um, we looked all over. We examined churches, we went to churches we would listen to. Like we would go to the website and see do they have any streams of their services so that we could see what it's like first. Because that way we could check out multiple churches before even having to show up on a Sunday.

1:18:30 Um, and I can't tell you how disappointed I was. Um, it's not that they weren't trying. I'm not saying they weren't trying. I'm not saying that they don't care. I'm not saying they're not Christians that love Jesus. But in so many cases the teaching was just meh, just meh. And I don't mean that guy's not a good enough teacher. That's not what I mean. I don't care how good he is objectively in one sense, or how good he is at homiletics.

1:19:00 The subject matter being I want to communicate the truth of God's word to God's people was not often the case. And it was often this other thing where there's this expectation that as you show up Sunday morning, you need to have certain checkboxes marked of like, you know, feeling down or feeling discouraged. Um, I want it to be a little bit of this, a little bit of that, and I want to walk out having a feel good moment at church. That is a really driving factor in a lot of teaching that goes on is I want my people to walk out after having had a feel good moment at church. Now I'm not against that entirely as I'm teaching the word of God. I want it to stir in people's hearts and minds.

1:19:41 But that's A, uh, byproduct. That's not my agenda. That's not the goal. The goal is to get the word of God into the hearts and minds of the people and then let it have its impact and work in them. So there was just not a lot of great Bible teaching. It was just read, uh, a verse, talk about a thing, read a verse, talk about something.

1:20:01 I have an agenda, let me find a verse to communicate that. But there was so much treasure just left on the pages of scripture because it was not expounded upon. It hadn't probably been studied very carefully by the leader because I'm like, how did he not see the gold and the beauty that's in here in the text? And it's not being communicated. And so people come and you know what it's like.

1:20:21 It's like we used to get our eggs just normal, uh, eggs for my whole life. I just got whatever eggs are from the store. We get those and we eat them and you crack them open and there's these like really pale yellow eggs. And I don't know, like the nutrition of all this. But here's my what I suspect, okay, when we started getting much higher quality eggs, they come out and they're these dark yellow. And uh, maybe I'm wrong, but my best understanding is that dark yellow color is because it's just a healthy chicken making a healthy egg. And then chances are that egg has much more nutritional value than the mass produced ones that we would get before.

1:21:00 Um, and so I feel much better eating those. I'm thinking like, yeah, it's probably getting more nutritional value. I feel like a lot of Bible studies are that egg, that pale yellow egg that's just missing nutritional value. There's stuff there, it's still good for you, it still helps you, but it's just so thin and it doesn't communicate the goodness and the truth of God's word. Like if, uh, your pastor is teaching on the Sermon on the Mount and he should have it in his heart, like, this is such a high and lofty passage.

1:21:29 There's complicated and challenging things my people will deal with as I teach this. But there's a lofty calling that Jesus wants us to, to learn how to honor God with our lives and to watch out for the dangers of misdirected religion, but instead have true religion directed towards God. And, um, the calling there so high and good. Like I want to get that into people's hearts. I want to go through acts where my people are so convicted by the evangelism they see as Paul and Peter, ah, are preaching the gospel and they're willing to lay their lives down for it, that they'll no longer be intimidated or ashamed or discouraged from preaching the gospel to people who may look at them weird at work over it, you know, like it won't matter anymore because we're going to get. We're going to get this word into our. Into ourselves. You know, I want them to understand the doctrine of who God is and how we are saved. I want them to.

1:22:22 I want. Here's a test. The last thing I'll say about it, even though I don't know if I'm answering your question, but I want. When I teach the Word and I go verse by verse through a book of the Bible, that kind of thing, um, or take a chapter and I'm just teaching it. I want, if someone read that chapter before they walked in, then I taught it, and then they walked out and read it again. They should be able to say two things. What I'm reading now that I'm out of Mike's presence and his influence is not on me, right? Like the sort of persuasion he might have with his words. I'm just reading the chapter inconsistently, reading straight through and what he said, it really is what this means. It really is.

1:23:01 And second question, do I understand this passage better than I did when I walked into that Bible study? Because if I don't, if I know principles and ideas the pastor taught, but I don't understand that text, I can't just read it and go, now I know what this means. I read the phrases and the words and I know what they mean. Then I think that the guy failed to teach you the Word. He taught you something else. Maybe it was good, but it wasn't the Word.

1:23:25 Anyway, that's one of my soapboxes. I'll get off of it now and I'll close, uh, this in prayer. Uh, Father, we thank you for your holy word. We thank you for the good that came out of the Reformation. Um, oh, and I'm reminded now as I'm praying, I'll tell you guys something after we pray. Um, we thank you for the goodness that came out of that. And we pray for more literacy in your Word, for the people of God, for us even listening. We just see more pastors teaching the Word of God diligently, not feeling overly pressured to give people a good sermon, but instead to give them the Word of God, that they would feel that sense and that pressure and that duty and obligation. And we pray that you would build up our churches and help us, even if we have some criticisms towards our own fellowships, to not have critical hearts, to not have hearts that are cold towards our pastors, cold towards our fellowship. But we're the faithful, uh, and those who love each other, and we're building up, and we're trying to bring positive change from within and not just isolation and criticism. In Jesus name, amen. Okay, here's what I wanted to tell you guys earlier that I forgot about, and it was about the Reformation. Here's my little guy again. You guys want to see? Oh, yeah. There's my little dude. Um, Martin Luther.

1:24:41 The Reformation I celebrate tomorrow's the anniversary. But it also has troubles. It comes with troubles, and it comes with failings and falling short and even significant issues. Um, the treatment of Anabaptists, the number of Anabaptists that were killed by reformers because they believed it was okay to kill heretics, um, is a great tragedy, and it was wrong. Um, but here's the cool thing about the Reformation, as opposed to, say, Eastern Orthodoxy or Roman Catholicism, that they can't say, which is that, uh, it can reform. It can even reflect on the bad actions of its own leadership and say that was wrong without any reservations, without any caveats. It could look back on decisions that were made and say that wasn't biblical, that wasn't Christian. It could look back on any action of any individual and say that's not consistent with the word of God, but that the same cannot be said of other movements. And that's unfortunate, because then they're stuck. You know, like, we're all stupid sometimes, but you don't want to be stuck on stupid.

1:25:47 Um, for example, the, uh, second Council of Nicaea, which is considered a council agreed upon by, uh, Orthodox and Catholic, uh, perspectives. They all agree to it, like, hold to it. So this council says that if me, Mike Winger, this is a plain reading of the council, that if I don't kiss, images, kiss with my lips, images, that I'm anathema, I'm accursed from God. And the authors of the council believed that that anathema meant you were separated from God himself.

1:26:20 So this is something that is irreformable in both of those movements, Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic. You can't change this. You have to simply accept it. There are some who will try to find a way to wiggle around it. But if you're going to be a consistent Roman Catholic or a consistent Eastern Orthodox, um, I'm under the anathema now. I'm Able to look at that council that happened hundreds and hundreds of years later. This is like the seventh council, um, seventh of the Ecumenical Councils. You know, I can look at that and I can say, oh, yeah, they got that wrong. Right? That's not consistent with Scripture. It's not even consistent with church history.

1:26:54 It was a shift. It's a shift that happened, as far as I can tell, after, um, Christianity kind of became more of the, um, religion of the empire. And now, ah, so many pagans are flooding in and so idolatry floods in with it. Um, and I know Latria, duly, all that stuff, I just think it's all a failed rescue device. But my point here is the Reformed people can actually look at this, the people of the Reformation. I'm not a Calvinist, but in many ways I'm of the Reformation, I'm Protestant.

1:27:27 Um, they can look at that and they can say, yeah, that was wrong. But the other guys can't. They literally can't. You're not allowed to. You're not able to. It's irreformable. In fact, did you know that's a word that's used in Vatican 1 to describe the beliefs that they were enshrining for the first time?

1:27:45 Enshrined. That's an important word there to make it dogmatic for the first time about papal infallibility. They made statements about the seven sacraments, were taught by Jesus and the apostles, and it was universally known by the Church Fathers, which is not historically true. It's not remotely historically true. Uh, even Roman Catholics said that this was an error. Like they just didn't know history when the guys were writing that.

1:28:05 But in the writing of Vatican I, like was 1870 something, um, they enshrined papal infallibility, but then they say it's irreformable. That's the word that's used. So the beautiful thing about the Reformation is it has the ability to grab the word of God and say, you can correct me no matter what. And the other camps don't have that ability. And so I would encourage them to have that ability to be able to look back and say, you know, even great swathes of us can get things wrong in certain seasons, but the scripture doesn't change and the Scripture doesn't lie and it can reform us.

1:28:43 So simper, reformanda. Always reforming. Let's be always going back to the word of God. All right, Lord bless you guys. Had fun with you today. Hopefully you had fun with me too. But even better, hopefully you learned to think biblically. About things.