S17 E28: Josh Swihart on Zcash & ZODL

Josh Swihart is the founder of ZODL: the Zcash Open Development Lab. Basically a for profit reincarnation of the old Electric Coin Company, which inherited the dev teams and projects.

During his previous Bitcoin Takeover podcast appearance in November 2024 (S15 E62), Zcash was a struggling privacy project with very little support and a rather disappointing price action. In June 2026, Zcash is the rising star of the cryptocurrency market, with plans to scale to billions of users and ever-improving shielding technology.

In this episode, we talk about the good, the bad, and the controversial moments in the recent history of Zcash... and why Bitcoin didn't activate Zerocash yet.

Time stamps:
00:01:14 Intro: Josh Swihart returns after 20 months
00:02:07 Why Zcash is "in a class of its own" (and self-defeating)
00:03:28 Shielded note Q: the run on the Orchard pool before Iron Wood
00:05:22 What are shielded pools? Sprout, Sapling, Orchard explained
00:06:26 The Orchard vulnerability found by Taylor Hornby
00:06:48 Why Zcash matters to Bitcoin: Zerocoin, Zerocash, Halo 2
00:09:06 The secret: from near-delisting at $30 to near top 10
00:11:03 Governance battles, killing the dev fund, refocusing ECC
00:13:03 Peacemonger research and focusing on the first 100 users
00:14:09 Keystone, NEAR intents swaps, and shielded pool growth
00:15:23 Reflexivity and the macro case (Canadian truckers, seizures)
00:16:32 Cake Wallet, Vic Sharma, and the ZEC integration recognition problem
00:17:57 The Monero rivalry and the privacy renaissance
00:19:35 "Cypherpunk does not mean criminal": Samourai vs Wasabi
00:23:04 Railgun comparison and why fungibility matters
00:25:02 Zmap, Flexa, and spending shielded ZEC in stores
00:26:21 Buying lunch at Chipotle and a Ford F150 truck with Zcash
00:27:33 Giveaway setup + sponsors
00:30:32 Why is Zcash "lied about a ton"?
00:34:03 Debunking the low anonymity-set myth and DeFi integrations
00:35:48 "Main character syndrome," paid FUD, and the influencer claim
00:38:50 Uncorrelated price + maximalist FUD around the Orchard bug
00:40:40 The ethics of disclosure and Taylor Hornby's character
00:45:03 The security budget problem and Network Sustainability Module
00:46:56 Scaling Zcash: Tachyon, recursion, and off-chain services
00:49:35 Do shielded memos bloat the chain?
00:51:32 The shielded stablecoins / shielded assets debate
00:58:31 Last giveaway call + ZODL phone overheating
00:59:12 New user Q: where's the privacy when you spend?
01:01:02 Shielded vs transparent transactions explained
01:03:22 Number reveal and winners
01:06:39 Crypto Visa/Mastercard debit cards: winning or losing?
01:09:56 Has Bitcoin been co-opted? Adam Back and incentives
01:15:20 What stops Zcash from being co-opted like Bitcoin?
01:19:52 Decentralization and killing the trademark agreement
01:21:31 Many orgs now: Foundation, Shielded Labs, Tachyon, Valor
01:23:21 No funding from exchanges or mining pools
01:26:04 ZODL origin: Balaji, fundraising, and the ECC split
01:29:17 ZODL's business model: 50 bps on swaps
01:30:01 Hardware wallets: Keystone, Passport, Trezor Safe 7
01:34:07 How Slush discovered Bitcoin through Zooko
01:35:37 Zcash ASIC demand and decentralizing mining
01:38:51 ECC wind-down, the Bootstrap settlement, and dev funds
01:42:38 Thoughts on ZNS (Zcash Naming Service)
01:44:47 Living with the FUD and "Zionist coin" conspiracies
01:46:31 Why disclose the bug publicly? Transparency vs trust
01:48:18 Inside the emergency coordination with pools and exchanges
01:49:52 Echoes of Bitcoin's 2013 hard fork
01:51:49 Iron Wood and Tachyon upgrade timelines
01:53:31 Closing: the Zcash dance and where to follow Josh