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This is Bloomberg Businessweek Daily. Reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay ahead. With insight on the people, companies, and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus, global business, finance, and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast. With Carol Masser and Tim Stenevek. Hi, everyone.

Welcome to the Bloomberg Business Week weekend podcast. Tim was off this week.

And I got to say, it was an interesting week where we sometimes were searching for the headline of the day. Markets bounced around or traded little changed, reacting sometimes to geopolitics and the price of oil. We did have records on the S & P 500 and the NASDAQ. We did not get much reaction to the release of the Fed Minutes, as we heard that Fed officials see another rate hike before the end of the year.

Two more decisions to go. Meantime, Tesla has lined up $ 30 billion of new loans and credit lines as it dials up investments on AI and robotics. And Broadcom, fresh off the launch of a $ 60 billion debt financing to help fund Anthropix artificial intelligence build-out, is already sketching out plans for its next blockbuster deal. All of this and more reminded us that massive capital spending on artificial intelligence continues to drive the trade, particularly when it comes to tech names. At the same time, policy uncertainty is rising with campaign messaging heating up ahead of the U.S. midterm elections, which are just about three weeks or so away. You can find the latest reporting and analysis on all of

this Just head to the Bloomberg and to Bloomberg.com. Now, with that as our backdrop, we chat about global trade dynamics, foreign direct investment, and the strategic push to build out Europe's data center hub with Michael Lohan, the CEO of IDA Ireland. Also, we get the impact of AI on the world and why guarding your digital ownership is taking on a whole new level of urgency. We'll do that with Ian Rogers. He's Chief Experience Officer at Ledger. plus the growing business of Growing Diamonds in the Lab with Natalie Morrison, founder of Astria London, and with the company's global creative director, you may know her, she's Sarah Jessica Parker.

All of that to come, we begin with that global view. From Ireland, traditionally a country that's home to many multinationals, you may remember back in March, Irish Prime Minister Tishak Michal Martin met with US President Donald Trump at the White House, as part of the Irish leader's annual visit to Washington, D.C. for St. Paddy's Day. In that meeting, we learned that Irish companies committed more than $ 6. 1 billion in new capital spending commitments to the U.S. economy through the 2026-2030 horizon. Well, back with us to talk everything from data centers and diesel to wind power and whiskey is Michael Lohan, CEO of IDA Ireland, the foreign direct investment agency of the Irish government. He joined me and

Alexis Christophorus, who was filling in for Tim.

Yeah, so I think the last time we spoke, actually, it was Patrick's week, as we now call it, and we were going to the White House as part of that. I think what's happened, you know, during that week, obviously, we got an opportunity to reinforce that strong commitment between the U.S. and Ireland, you know, that dual, I suppose, relationship that we have in terms of investment, U.S. companies investing in Ireland, you know, a proven trusted relationship, Irish companies investing here in the U.S., And we see that continuing.

We see strong momentum of U.S. companies into Ireland. Just in July of this year, we had Intel, another $ 5 billion being invested in their global capacity out of Ireland as well.

Data centers?

No, no, this is on chip manufacturing with Intel. And that's what's driving the next growth. So we continue to see that investment on semiconductors, in life sciences, in financial services, fintech. these are all real areas of growth, you know, for the Irish economy and indeed the global economy.

Yeah, it's not making President Trump very happy.

Though, is it?

Well, actually we had President Trump in Ireland just a couple of weeks ago and for a very positive trip as well. And I think when you look at the, I suppose, the engagement of US companies in Ireland, like it goes back six, seven decades. So we, and like the growth of those companies has propelled, you know, not just in Ireland, but actually internationally as well. So we're part of that value chain that brings growth to the corporation, both here in the US and indeed globally.

So where do things stand right now with the Trump administration with regards to tariffs and Ireland? Because we know there were, did he roll back tariffs recently on whiskey?

On Irish whiskey, yeah, he made the declaration of Irish whiskey. But of course, with Ireland, we're in the European Union, so we're part of the broader deal. There is the agreement between Europe and the US in terms of tariffs and within that percentage of a 15% cap. So we continue to work through that. And I think for Ireland, we've been advocating, as has Europe, for product to reduce that, because I think the more restrictions that we have on tariffs and flows, that's not positive in terms of innovation, in terms of growth. So we're very, I suppose, proactive in engaging both our European colleagues and directly with Washington in terms of that mutual beneficial relationship. activity that comes

from having free flow of trade and free flow of innovation between their two nations.

Michael, how would you characterize, though, how the White House is seeing it? How would you characterize how the Trump administration is viewing what they want in terms of tariffs for the rest of the world? Have they eased dramatically in your view?

I think we've seen an evolution of the thought process around tariffs, the purpose for them, and interaction. And I think we've seen that not just with Europe, but obviously with other nations in the world as well. Because These supply chains are complex, they're global, they're interwound, you know, in terms of if you think about a drug or a semiconductor, they actually have multiple touch points, not just in Europe or in North America, but in other parts of the world as well. So I think there is an acceptance of that, but I can also understand the US administration in terms of building capacity in the US.

So I think we have to find, I suppose, the common ground between us in that context. And for us in Ireland, we believe that, you know, Ireland provides that gateway for US companies, into Europe, into global markets, that strengthens ultimately the parent company, which is a U.S.

Company.

And we've seen how that's like there's many companies I mentioned 30, 40, 50 years in Ireland. And the growth that's come in those companies is because of the presence they've had internationally as well as here in the U.S. So I think there's a complementary element that exists in international trade.

Carol mentioned data centers a moment ago. I want to touch on AI because you have a big international summit coming up. Will it be in Dublin?

It is in Dublin, yes. So it's part of, obviously, we're chairing the European Council at the moment, Ireland. So we're in that seat until the end of this year. And as part of that, we're holding an international AI summit. It's part of Europe's AI month. So that's happening on the 14th of October, where we'll have policy leaders from Europe, we'll have industrial and enterprise leaders from all over the globe, and we'll have multiple. I suppose, industry segments, not just technology, but actually those where we apply AI. So across healthcare, across automotive, we'll all be part of that discussion, really talking about how we build and integrate trusted AI through our enterprise models and through our enterprise supply chains.

Michael, you guys, or Ireland, I should say, had lifted a de facto ban on connecting new data centers to the electricity grid around Dublin. So it's a move that kind of gives the industry long-awaited clarity. on the requirements for building new facilities. What can, you know, how much building are you seeing or interest in building? Give us an idea, quantify the capacity around new data centers.

Yes, so you're correct.

What we've done in Ireland actually, I think uniquely is We've, and look, we have this challenge all around the globe in terms of energy demand.

You can build them, but if you don't have the power.

Well, even for everything, for economic growth broadly, I think we need more energy and we need robust, I suppose, systems to support that in terms of grid and so forth. But in Ireland, what we've done is we've taken our renewable ambition, which is to increase our generation capacity by 5x over the next two decades. And that's actually going to be through renewables in terms of offshore wind. And we've linked that to large energy users. And we're saying to the large energy users is, If you want to connect, you can get a connection agreement, but you must decarbonize and be an enabler for the renewable generation.

Is that a part of the agreement to build a data center?

Correct.

You can build it, but here's what you have to do.

For any large energy user, i.e. data centers, they have to give those commitments. So that's the basis.

What's the commitment?

All of the energy has to be renewable? Yes, so 70-80% will have to be renewable. And of course, there'll be a different mix in this because we realize there's going to have to be battery technology, There's going to have to be, you know, sustainable technology. And there may continue to have to be, I suppose, gas fired as well for reliance on the grid. So all of that is connected.

We're connecting our sustainable initiative with our ambition for economic growth.

I wonder if states here in the U.S. can use that as a blueprint because you're giving... companies, they might not love the rules, but you're giving them real guardrails and transparency.

And that was the whole purpose of it from the government perspective, is provide a pathway that users, energy users, can plan their future investments. And this has just come into, I suppose, into position this year. So we're going to see the first number of investments happening over the years ahead.

But crucially, it's about linking that Generation capacity with the demand capacity and doing that in a sustainable manner.

Well, and it's interesting.

I want to talk, if we have a time, wind energy, but I want to go back to the original question. So then with all of this, how much activity demand people looking to build data centers in Ireland? What can you tell us about the activity around this?

Yeah, so we have been active in the data center market for 20 years.

But AI has given juice to all of this.

It is.

It is given another juice with certainly one word for it. But I do think what's important... is, and we're very clear in this, as an open economy, and Ireland is built as a digital economy, we need to have digital infrastructure and we need to have data centres. Now, what we have to do is balance data centre requirements with the capacity of any state or nation. to support that.

And from a policy perspective, we think we're getting that right with our policy direction. And just last week, we've seen a permitting coming through for a data centre as well for Google. So we continue to see progression on data centre investment in Ireland. But we have to balance that. And I think that's where our policy agreements are.

So you'll say no. Google comes in and says, I want to spend a billion trillion dollars on a data centre, but we really don't want so much in renewables. I shouldn't just say Google. I'm just doing an example of everything before.

Everybody gets crazy.

A heavy hitter.

You'll say, nope, you need to do renewables.

No, you have to. That's the conditionality that's associated with it. You have to deliver within the national policy and the national framework. And that's the means in which we... Because remember, energy is a scarce resource everywhere in the world. And we have to manage that. And it has to be plan-led.

And in Ireland, we're very much in a plan-led approach. How do we make sure we're dealing with that from a generation perspective? and a demand perspective, and doing that in the most sustainable manner possible.

And in Ireland, your largest source of renewable electricity is wind farms.

Correct.

So talk to us about that, and what is outside investment like right now for wind farms in Ireland?

So in Ireland at the moment, we have a very developed onshore wind farms and solar. Who taught in Ireland that solar, but the technology has improved so much that solar is really effective in Ireland. So today, actually, our grid can be anywhere up to 50% plus is coming off renewables on an average basis. And sometimes it's higher than that. But the real, I suppose, growth area is in offshore wind. So we're actually looking at the east coast of Ireland.

A lot of water around you.

We have a lot of water, yeah, and we have a lot of wind. So the real opportunity is off the east coast. The first projects actually will be, the permitting will come through in that in the coming weeks for the first scale of investments off the east coast. The long term ambition is when we've done the East Coast is actually to come on the West Coast between on the Atlantic, where really we're seeing high value and high volumes of wind. But that's new technology is going to be required. But that's where the real growth can come from Ireland's future. And our future is going to be about renewable energies driving our generation capacity.

I spend time in the water. When I'm out in the water and I see the wind farms out in the water, it's pretty wild. Yeah, it is wild.

Yeah, it is.

And when you certainly go off the west coast of Ireland on the Atlantic, you're talking about deep seas and you're talking about big waves.

Our thanks to Michael Lohan, CEO of IDA Ireland, the country's foreign direct investment agency. Our thanks as well to Alexis Christophorus, filling in while Tim was away. Coming up, a veteran of every internet era on the real risks behind artificial intelligence. and why proving your humanity is becoming more important than ever. Ian Rogers is next. You're listening to Bloomberg Businessweek. This is Bloomberg.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 p.m.

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For years, as artificial intelligence has evolved from the stuff of sci-fi movies to an app ordinary people have installed on their phones, tech leaders and some AI insiders have talked about the potential for it to escape human control and wreak havoc on society. Those fears have become impossible to ignore in recent weeks, driven by a series of cybersecurity breaches involving AI agents and new warnings from rank-and-file AI staffers. Our next guest urges more government restrictions and safeguards on AI. Ian Rogers was the founder and webmaster of BeastieBoys.com. He was at the company behind Winamp. He was CEO of Beats Music before it was sold to Apple for $ 3 billion. Then chief digital officer at the

luxury goods conglomerate LVMH, the parent of Louis Vuitton, Dior, Sephora, Hennessy, and more. So what is he doing now? He is chief experience officer at Ledger. It's the Paris-based digital asset security company. Normally in Paris, Ian joined Tim and myself here in New York.

Ian, we wanted to have you on the program now to talk about this moment of technology that we're in. Ed Ludlow out in San Francisco spoke with Sam Altman. This is a company that is reportedly raising another funding round to be valued in the private market at $ 1. 4 trillion. It comes against a backdrop. of what many people are calling an existential crisis when it comes to the fate of humanity because of this technology.

I was watching that in the green room and my question was, do you think it was really him?

I hope you're joking. I hope you're joking.

I see a lot of videos of Sam Altman on the internet that aren't actually him. So how do we know? How do we know?

The reason I want to talk to you is because you have seen it.

Now you're freaking us out.

You've been through it all when it comes to this technology. What is this moment for you right now?

I mean, it is crazier than anything I've ever seen in terms of the pace and also just the capabilities. We've never had this kind of supplementary intelligence and the things that we can do with it as individuals is extraordinary. And I think the feeling that I think many of us are having is that we are the bottleneck at this point. The capabilities of these tools are beyond you know, our ability to manage them at this point. And I think for me, it's kind of clarified a bit of what our jobs will be like in the future. You know, I think I've been saying that a year ago, if you'd have asked me, what's the right thing to teach our kids in school? I would say, I really don't know because the world is changing so much. We should

just teach them to be, you know, good, open-minded, honest people and hope for the best. But I think that it's clear to me now and the conversation that you just had around the new open AI platform product is another sign of that, we will be operators of AI agents. That will be our job. It will be to operate these agents and help them push things along. And that may sound dystopian, but I don't think it is any more than if I'd have told you in 1995, you will have a computer on your desk. You might've said to me, well, oh, Ian, I'm not the computer guy.

That's for you. But no, now all knowledge workers have computers on their desk. So I think it's just that. It's the workflow will change.

The workflow will change. So the nonstop talk, it seems, as of late about guardrails, Ian, and the concerns about, you know, our existence and human, like, I go back to your title, you know, the importance of humans. Are we having the right conversation around this? Are you worried at all?

I don't think we're having quite the right conversation around this because I think we're talking about, like, kind of, fear-based existential threats when we should be more just looking at, you know, well, what are the challenges exactly and what is the right way to solve them? I mean, in some ways we've seen this movie before, you know, what parts of the computer stack needed to change when the internet came to us? And the answer is, you know, every, every part needed to change. Like we weren't, we, you know, the computers that we had built pre-internet were not built for the internet. And similarly, now we have, you know, if we have autonomous probabilistic creatures who are helping us with our work, then, you know, the systems we've built

before them are not really purpose-built for that future. But that's what we should be doing is focusing on solving that problem because that toothpaste isn't going back into the tube. And there are, you know, security happens by design. So for example, you know, at Ledger, we've tried to figure out like what, we build security hardware and software. So what is our role in this? And our role is to keep the humans safe and in the loop. For example, we talk a lot about alignment. I would posit that there's a simple way to have alignment, and that is anytime AI takes an action, that needs to be the result of either a policy that was created by a human or an explicit approval from a human.

You make it sound so easy because we talked to Joe Wiesenthal and Tracy Alloway of Odd Lots a couple weeks ago. We were out in Huntington Beach at an event. And the scenario that Joe laid out for us as being a worst-case scenario was basically like you ask an agent to do something, and then it does by any means necessary, through any means necessary, does that thing to accomplish that goal. That doesn't seem aligned with humans, but it also seems like a very easy problem to fix.

Why is it not easy?

I agree.

I think this is where then it comes to, okay, well, where will we have this? Again, I like to work from first principles and where will we have this? For example, what I just described sounds a little naive. We just need every action AI takes to be either the result of a policy or an approval.

Like, just do the right thing.

And that's like, oh, you're so naive. Well, you know where that will be the case is in finance, right? So when, if an AI agent is working with the company treasury, which is something that we allow with Ledger's enterprise product, then every action that AI takes will need to be the result of either a policy or an approval.

And that's sort of obvious, right? And I would say there are other domains beyond that, IT, healthcare, You know, where it's just kind of obvious that if the agent is going to take an action, you'll want that to be the result of a policy or an approval. Now, when I'm using, you know, Claude code in auto mode, is every action that AI is taking the result of a policy or an approval? Well, I guess on some level you could say there's somebody at Anthropic that made it possible that it does that automatically, but it's actually, you know, probably not quite. But my point is, is that's a choice that we have. We are the ones who are building this technology and we can build it the way that we need to build it if we

want to.

So this goes back to, I feel like Tim, something you and I have been talking a lot about when it comes to AI and it's like nuclear weapons, like mutual assurance, mutual deterrence. Like if these things don't work, right? If it doesn't work in the financial system, nobody's going to use them, right? If it doesn't work in healthcare and we start getting wrong stuff, Nobody's going to use it.

There are market, there are market pressures here.

Right.

And I think that that's, that, that is coming up in, in the conversation at this point.

Right.

Like we do, you know, we, we, we do have laws, you know, crimes are illegal and, and, and, you know, and if, if you make software that commits a crime, then there is liability. Like, I think that, You know, it's not like there's no, you know, framework at all for this.

But will we make some pretty serious mistakes along the way in this environment that is probably safe to say like no other?

I mean, name one, you know, transformative innovation that hasn't made mistakes along the way and that, you know, the steam engine was quite dangerous. There was a time when we were debating, do we want electricity in our homes, right? Like, I think that's a hallmark of great technology.

We've accepted... to live in a society with tens of thousands of lives lost to auto accidents.

Correct.

Every single year.

Yeah.

I don't know.

Like, is that the world? Like, are we going to have to accept that people will die as.

A result of this?

This is the point in the interview which always comes up with you guys where I say, look, I'm a skateboarder from Indiana. I'm not sure I'm qualified to answer that one. My, my, my point would be is that, um, you know, this, these, we do have a, we do have a choice in, in how these things, um, behave, uh, and there will, you know, but, but what is, I think it's come back to what's extraordinary about them is that they are probabilistic and that's, we've never had that before.

Like the, the programming that I grew up doing, if the video game did that, it was because you programmed that to happen when that other thing happened right now, it can take an arbitrary input reason on that input and give, um, an interesting reply. that's actually extraordinary and extraordinarily valuable. It can accomplish a lot of the kind of, you know, nonsense work that we all do every day.

We should also be honest that a lot of the work that a lot of people do every day would, would be better done by robots. We need to do it safely though. And, and I think that, you know, we have there, there's, we always say at ledger that security is by design. And for example, Don't give the agent the keys to the treasury. Make it ask for them, right?

And that's the design that we use at Ledger Enterprise. Well, the analogy that I use is like, it's like a 16-year-old with the car keys. They're not in the bedroom. They're with dad. If the 16-year-old wants to use the car, they ask for the keys. And if it's Monday morning and they're driving to school, yes. And if it's Friday evening and they're hammered, the answer is no. And there's a big spectrum in between. So this, you can build, you can design this so that the agent can do what it's great at, which is thinking, reasoning, suggesting, and then humans or policies set by humans so that it can be autonomous are the piece. And that's what we've been working on.

There's a safety element here, Ian. So what about, though, the impact on our labor force? Or do you think it's going to be equally a job creator as much?

You know, again, I think we can only look at history for this, right? You know, when we had movies with sound, there were people who used to make the music in the movie theater that were then out of a job. I think that this is something that just happens continually. And somehow we continue to find ways to be productive. Um, this part, I mean, I don't know. I, what I always say is like for any of the, I always ask people if you're, are you working with AI?

Yeah.

Are you working less or are you working more? And all of us that are working with AI 24 seven are working a lot more and not a lot less. So there's a lot of work to do.

So just 20 seconds left in terms of what you're doing at ledger right now, how much of it is about crypto and digital assets versus how much of it is the base of.

Our businesses with is with crypto. So that is, you know, that is where we, where we make the money. So a lot of what we do is there. But there is a completely new addressable market with AI security. And I announced our AI roadmap earlier in the year. And then we'll have some big announcements at Ledger Open on October 15th that continue us in this AI security direction.

That was Ian Rogers, Chief Experience Officer at Ledger. Still ahead on Bloomberg Business Week, from the digital world to the world of diamonds and its own transformation in the lab and in retail.

The technology was a phenomenon to me. And the fact that you could have so much flexibility, that you could ask so much of it, that color and quality and cut and clarity and a kind of elegance and beauty and luxury that didn't exist yet in the lab-grown diamond business was pretty exciting.

We talk lab-grown diamonds with the global creative director of Astria London. You might know her, Sarah Jessica Parker.

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So we talk about diamonds a lot here at Bloomberg. I talk about diamonds a lot.

Love a good diamond.

Household.

I remind my husband. No. We talk about luxury. We talk about estate jewelry. We talk about watches. But on diamonds, one of the things that we've pointed out a lot is how the market has drastically changed. Yes, a diamond may still be forever, but that diamond may increasingly be grown in the lab. And this market just continues to grow.

So we are delighted to have back with us Natalie Morrison. She's the founder of Astria London. And great, too, that she brought along a key member of her team. We're delighted to have with her in studio as well the company's global creative director. She's Sarah Jessica Parker. Very well known to the Bloomberg audience. Welcome, welcome. Nice to have you here. Thanks for having us.

Yes.

And we want to talk about the stuff that you guys are doing together. But I'm curious how you guys came together. Because I'm sure you get pitched a lot of things. I'm sure you get pitched a lot of things. How is it that this kind of made sense?

We don't have time to tell each of our own version, but I'm fairly sure they'd be aligned anyway.

Just be curious where they.

She said, she said.

I got a call from my agent saying that this young woman had reached out and had started this business, although it was not a brand-new newborn, and that she wanted to have a conversation about it, and it was specific around Lab Grown Diamonds and what she'd hoped to do with the company and how she wanted to grow it, and a partnership that we might.

We may or may not be able to sort out.

And I was really intrigued and discovered how little I really knew about lab-grown diamonds. And most of what I knew was generally what's happening here in this country and the price point that it had found its success. And that was kind of how limited I was.

And then I met the person who runs the master class.

She's pretty amazing.

Well, talk to us about how the acceptance of lab-grown diamonds, because I remember doing stories a few years ago And there were either limitations, there were costs involved in terms of the creation, and I know there is to some extent too, but how it has evolved. Because when I talk to most people who get engaged today, it's a lab-grown diamond.

Well, actually, it's 61% of the engagement rank in the U.S.

On lab-grown diamond last year.

The reality is I always speak about numbers because that's my background.

It's okay.

We love numbers.

$ 100 billion market a year, the diamond industry. Lab-grown diamond was 1% of the market in 2015, 5% in 2021, almost 30% last year, although we don't know the exact number.

I don't know if you heard, but.

The DMCC in the UAE say it's going to be 100% by 2030.

Goodness.

But Natalie always moves those predictions closer to where we are now. And she's been right every single time.

So they're saying 2030.

I wouldn't say.

So the economist is saying by 2030, 75%. The DMCC is saying 100%.

I'm going to make a bet on 90%.

I want to know what specific aspect of this project really resonated with you. What was, yes, I need to be in on this.

I think the creative part is always really compelling to me.

But if.

That alone, without the kind of structure around it that is necessary, as I've discovered over the many years of being a creative person, you don't have, you don't get very far. It doesn't matter how big you dream. But there was also this technology that Natalie was particularly excited about. I mean, she was extremely excited about the creative and what could be done and what she wanted to do inside Astria and what she hoped we could do with this other collection inside Astria. But the technology was a phenomenon to me. And the fact that you could have so much flexibility, that you could ask so much of it, that color and quality and cut and clarity and a kind of elegance and beauty and luxury that didn't exist

yet in the lab-grown diamond business was pretty exciting to try to be worthy of, you know?

And thus far, she's been right.

And we want to talk about your collection because it's very unique within the brand. But now let's go to the technology because I remember when I talked about us doing it years ago, there was limitation in size and there were lots of limitations. So I think there were lots of questions whether or not this could become something.

Tell us about the technology. What do we need to understand, I think, to the audience about what's changed?

I think what has changed is that with technology growing and growing all the time, there's nothing we can't do right now.

So people can dream big. Speaking of big, no.

Speaking of big.

I was wearing a piece right now.

This is the first diamond necklace in the world, 174 carat, in D.

Color, which corresponds to 1% of the diamonds in the world. So yes, there's nothing we can't achieve. Colors, clarity, name it.

Engineering movement.

Engineering movement, flexibility.

This is a ring, although it's very hard.

It's on a torque, so it actually spins.

Oh my gosh.

So it can be this. And we also have all the new collection has... you know, necklaces that have that and bracelets and cuffs. But that's just a part of the technology of great engineers and jewelry designers that can go hand in glove with the kind of technology that now exists inside lab-grown diamonds.

Yeah.

And I think now we are talking about something, a different era in luxury. It's not just about using lab-grown diamond as technology, right? It's also creating a house of the future with focus on sustainability, craftsmanship, Beauty, design, and when you mix all of this, we hope to do a good job.

When you speak about this technology, talk to me about how difficult this is to pull off. Maybe the expenses, the capital needed. How difficult is it when it comes to the technology to be able to make things as beautiful as what you're wearing?

It's much more expensive than people think. So it's getting cheaper and cheaper with the economy of scales because the lab-grown diamond was discovered in 1950 originally by GE Capital. But now it's become only really famous since 2018 when the FTC in the U.S. declared a diamond is a diamond whether I come from a lab or a mine.

Since that day, it's growing.

And because people get educated, there's no more meat about the diamond industry. So the reality is on the technology front, it's very expensive. You need a lot of PhD. There's a lot of resources behind it. But it's getting cheaper and cheaper.

The more you produce.

The more we produce.

Well, speaking of, though, the stuff that you produce, talk to us about your collection, which launched this month. Because it does have a real vintage feel to it. You talk about movement, the heart of the city. Those necklaces, they're fun, and they move around, right?

They are fun, but hopefully they're not silly.

I think so much of what I love and have worn, outside of the stuff that I've been fortunate enough to borrow, is really from thrift shops, consignment shops, vintage spots.

And it's old.

It's colorful. It's often bigger in scale. It's got a little body to it. At the same time, it's not as feminine as what people typically consider, you know, jewelry for women. So inside Austria is this extraordinary collection that already exists. I always say it's like ultra feminine. You know, it's for a lady. But then there's this other consumer and this other shopper that might want a touch more muscle, you know, and a touch more.

I think of a kind.

Of metropolitan approach to it, but it's not, and it's for everybody. It just has a little bit more kind of, it's a fuller figure.

I don't know. This is one of them, but this is like, when I pull one piece, I'm like, but there are so many.

You know, this is part of the new collection, and we've got these pendants, but this, once again, this is like, it's like, It's just the teeniest, tiniest corner.

Of a portrait.

It's just really based on color and a kind of shape and silhouette that might be recognized from the past and not, but it feels really contemporary. And it's just beautifully made and color.

You speak to me because I'm inheriting older jewelry. And I feel the same way. I love going to consignment shops or something or Even a garage sale, and you find an old rhinestone necklace.

Yes, yes.

The artwork is incredible.

Even the chunky, old, beautiful rhinestone paste earrings that had these gorgeous, deep colors. They're super concentrated colors. But actually, they can be made really sexy and really contemporary. And we have some pieces that have just arrived that I'm seeing for the first time that.

Just run up the ear.

Oh, that sounds really nice.

And we're working with pearls and diamonds now. So they're also... becoming involved.

There's no limit of what we can do. Well, there's a next generation, right? I don't know how you feel about jewelry.

When it comes to lab-grown diamonds, I'm honestly so indifferent. I know some people are like, oh, this is fake versus this is real.

But it's not fake.

It's not. It's not fake. It's the same seed.

It's the same carbon seed.

And this is what a lot of people aren't educated about.

The best way to think about it, you know, it's like the water when it's on top of the iceberg becomes ice.

It's the same as the water that you put in your fridge and become ice. At its end, it's the same. That's an elegant way to say this. I think the main question, which.

Is still in people's mind, which I really want to correct, is on the resale value. Because people think that lab-grown diamonds don't have a resale value. And maybe they are right. Nobody knows, because there's no secondary market. But what matters is the following. A diamond is not an investment. in my opinion. We've been thinking that, but if you look at the numbers, they've lost 50% of their value, the natural diamond.

Industry, over the last five years. It was just announced by Rappaport.

If you buy a two-carat ring, lab-grown diamond, D-color, that will cost you, with Astrea London at the top of the top, $ 6, 000.

To $ 8, 000.

The equivalent ring in mine diamond will cost you.

$ 60, 000.

By the time you leave the shop, you already lost $ 30, 000. So for me, you can buy almost three times that. So the question of resale value is not.

And they're both diamonds. And they're both diamonds.

They're both eternal. And they look beautiful.

Yeah.

And I don't even look anymore at the collection and think, God, these are really exquisite lab-grown diamonds. I don't even see it anymore. I walked in today to see the collection in person finally, and I just thought, my God, those are beautiful diamonds.

Do you have a favorite?

Can you tell us?

I never have favorites. Pictures, books, children, food. Like, I can't pick favorites. But I'm really excited about all of them.

Yeah.

Men.

Well, tell us about what's going on with men. Because we cover that a lot. And often, we're talking watches. But tell us.

Last time, you asked me about the men collections.

We're actually shooting with José Alvira de Nix for showing our first men collection. I'm telling you that the men are going to wear more and more diamond. It's growing by 7% to 8% a year at the moment. In the U.S., it's becoming one of our biggest markets.

Growth year over year? What can you tell us real quickly?

Growth for Austria? Yeah. We're doubling this year already.

You're doubling this year.

We've opened at the Ritz in Paris, the Mondarian Oriental at Paris this year.

New York City next year?

New York City next year.

Right.

Yeah.

And more collections to come.

Yeah.

Yeah. We keep pursuing. We keep working. We have always.

It's the next collection. It's the wonderful monotony of design is.

That it's always waiting for you.

But you like it.

Very much.

Just the beginning.

You can tell.

What excites me is to create the new global house of jewelry. Looking at luxury in an ethical way. Looking at luxury in a.

Well, I've been looking at luxury and I'm kind of in awe.

Our thanks to Natalie Morrison. She's the founder of Astria London. And to Sarah Jessica Parker, the company's global creative director. Our thanks as well to Nora Melinda, Bloomberg TV Markets correspondent, for stepping in while Tim was away. And that wraps up the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio.

Thank you so much for joining us. Be sure to tune in to Bloomberg Business Week daily, Monday through Friday, starting at 2 p.m. Wall Street time on Bloomberg Radio, Bloomberg TV, and on Sirius XM Channel 121. You can also watch our daily broadcast on YouTube. Just search Bloomberg Podcasts. We're simulcast on Bloomberg Originals, available on Bloomberg.com slash originals, and streaming platforms like Roku, Amazon Fire TV, Samsung TV Plus, and more. I'm Carol Masser. Have a good, safe weekend.

Tim will be back next week.

This is the Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast. Available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 p.m. Eastern on Bloomberg.com, the iHeartRadio app, TuneIn, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube. and always on the Bloomberg Terminal.

Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - October 9th, 2026

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