Businessweek Daily Special: MBA Programs & Artificial Intelligence

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0:08 You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Tim Stenevek on Bloomberg Radio. Well, when we last spoke, Tim, the world was a very different place. President Trump hadn't been elected again. The U.S. and Israel hadn't launched the war against Iran. We were talking about AI a little bit, like, hey, this is this thing, chat GPC, it's kind of cool.

0:28 But not many people were worried about the existential threat to humanity.

0:31 No.

0:32 Exactly.

0:33 That is, though, what we talk about a lot. And I'm sure all of the global MBA programs are trying to figure out what is the role of AI? What do they need to teach the next class of MBA graduates about all of this? We bring it up because if you're trying to train those leaders for the global business environment, you have got an awful lot to think about.

0:51 We've got with us Stefano Caselli, Dean of SDA Bocconi, along with the person who oversees all of our coverage of business schools, Dimitra Kessiniti. She's Bloomberg News Senior Editor. They both join us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers Studio. Dean Caselli, welcome back. Dimitra, always good to have you with us.

1:07 Thank you.

1:08 And thank you for you bringing us all of these great deans. Dean, I want to start with you and just the change in the business environment that we've seen because the focus on getting these executives ready for a world that is changing, I think it's fair to say. Very rapidly. More quickly than at any, we've had some authors on this week.

1:27 I was just thinking.

1:29 The disruption that we've seen has been like, you know, typically a hundred year cycle. We've been seeing that in the last 25 years. It is true.

1:37 But let me say this time is not just simply a cycle.

1:40 It is a shift.

1:42 And what we have to do in a business school, running our programs or running the MBA is is to try to explain that AI and geopolitics, that are the two factors that combine together, can change completely the playground, need to be understood. And what you have to do in class is to push our students to invest more on what we need, the pillars, the fundamentals of knowledge. Otherwise, the risk is AI is a fantastic super tool, but if you don't have, as we say in finance, the underlying asset, the risk is that, you know, you don't have anything in your hands. So the investment is on the pillars of knowledge, much more than that.

2:27 So knowledge still matters. That hasn't gone away. And recruiters tell you that, that you want MBA candidates that understand AI, but they have to have an understanding of whether it's reading a balance sheet or understanding business strategy. That still matters.

2:40 Exactly. And it is obviously easy and difficult in the same time, because when students arrive in class, they're very worried about the world, which is changing. And what you have to do is not only to combine, let me say, with the art knowledge of the fundamentals. with the new tools, but what you have to do is to work really one to one with every candidate and every student and to design a sort of personalized journey within the frame of the MBA. That means more energy, more time, more passion on our side, but also the right usage of AI to help much more students. to have a personalized journey.

3:22 Denise, it's not like you've been dealing too much with AI, have you?

3:25 No, not at all.

3:26 I mean, this is all definitely underscoring so much of what we've spent the last, well, it's been a few months that we've been reporting it and talking to deans and faculty.

3:35 About all of this.

3:35 Demetra, forgive me.

3:36 I don't know why I said Demetra.

3:36 No worries. It's not like you two grew up together.

3:39 I know we did. We did grow up together.

3:43 It's not like you've known each other your entire lives.

3:45 Practically.

3:46 I am having quite a week.

3:47 Demetra.

3:48 But you guys are spending a lot on AI. We have.

3:50 I mean, it was clear.

3:51 I really wanted to call it by our nickname. That's why.

3:54 We were kind of coming at it a little too late.

3:56 Yeah.

3:56 But then it all converged in that week when Dario Amode came out with his statement about pulling back and being more cautious. And suddenly in every leading news interview, you know, outlet, we were seeing so many considerations of this. It is definitely, as Stefano says, essential. It's not something I think that anybody today leading any of the MBA programs that we rank, and we spent a lot of time surveying them also about how are they using it.

4:25 But the question is, you know, how are they going about it? The investment of time. Do they have the resources? Really sort of trying to make the best decisions possible about, you know, in what way is this very powerful tool going to then interact and work kind of in concert with the brains of your students and with their abilities, which are not going to be removed from the equation by any means.

4:50 So what do you want to know most from... A dean like this.

4:53 Well, sometimes, I mean, I did ask him. I said, you know, are we heading down a path where we're really going to see... a dramatic change in, in what these programs look like that, that can really, the answer to that change is depending, I think, on where you, where you sit. Stefano sits at the head of a school where the MBA program itself is one piece of many other things. And it's maybe the, even it might be the sort of jewel on top, but it might be the smallest piece. But what is AI? How is it going to fundamentally change what, what that means, what business education means?

5:29 So I mean, I think Dean Caselli, for me, had I had this technology available, I would have been much more effective, to be honest, in business school. Like if I had trouble learning some equation that the professor moved past and I needed to catch up, it would be very easy for me to ask an LLM. Sometimes I would go back and watch the recordings of class and stuff, and it was such a painstakingly long, inefficient process. Like This type of thing seems great. At the same time, it does seem like it can do a lot of what you can learn from a professor. So how do you make the experience in a classroom something you cannot get from a chatbot? I got the point.

6:10 But in a certain sense, our job is to tackle challenges. And the challenge this time is to raise the bar. And to raise the bar means my performance this time needs to be incredible. And an incredible performance is not just simply I'm a performer, but it means that when I'm going to teach, I'm to write on the whiteboard, and I say this is the equation, this is not the issue. The assumption is, okay, you have to know the equations. And now I have to explain, stay in class, in which way we can apply, which kind of problems, in which way we have to shape decision, which is much more complex for me. But it means that the learning process could become much more effective because they have more time to discuss with me, not only with me,

7:01 with any kind of professor, and to, let me say, to understand much better in which way knowledge can be applied to the real world. It is exciting, in my opinion.

7:12 Well, I want to put the question to Dimitra because as somebody who spent so many years in the world of MBA programs and business schools, both in the U.S. and internationally, at least here in the U.S., supposedly a 30% of your education is about networking and meeting other people. It's not about the actual classwork. It's about recruiting 30%, 30% networking and spending time with other people. That can't be replicated in an LLM.

7:36 It can't be replicated in an LLM, no. And we see in comments that they give us in response to our surveys for the rankings that it's actually what they value the most out of what they're getting is the human interaction. But the LLM is going to change... what they're going to be expected to go into that job with.

7:55 And I don't know, I think in some ways it's going to affect every piece of that experience because it's ultimately, it's going to seriously affect not just what job are you going to get, but what are you going to be expected to do and how are you going to do it?

8:10 So go to executive education, Dean Caselli. Like, I am curious how much you've got companies and executives coming back and saying, help me here.

8:17 Yeah, it's growing, it's growing. If I consider, you know, the pie of what I do, you know, the portion devoted to exec education, customized exec education for corporates is growing. Why it's growing? For three reasons. The first one, you know, companies want to give a recognition to their people. They want to keep their talent inside and they have to give education in a certain sense. Second, you know, challenges are much, much more complex. And it's not enough to stay in the company and to understand. They need to have an outsider, you know, running the exercise together. And the third one is to explore uncertainty together. What is happening to me, not every day, but let me say every week, is to talk with CEOs or decision makers

9:05 of companies saying, you know, I have this kind of problem. I have these question marks here. We don't want to find the right answers, but we want to co-design together with the business school what could be the journey. And this is quite exciting because it means to work together with a company to try to shape, let me say, the future and to work on education. And this is exciting.

9:30 I have a quick question.

9:31 CEOs.

9:32 I am curious about CEOs having to have an understanding of AI so they know what to implement at their firms. Are you working with CEOs directly?

9:40 Yeah, as well, as well.

9:41 And let me say decision makers, obviously.

9:44 A CEO represents a company and then you have the C-level and the team. And they have question marks because, you know, leaders need to be humble and they have to admit, OK, it is an unbelievable challenge. We don't have. the answers and we work together to to try to find the path. Let me say to enhance the capability of their people to have more agility. and to understand better what could be the options on the table. And it is quite exciting. Many companies, let me say, will be destroyed because they don't have time to say, AI is the big problem. We don't have the answer. It's a disaster. I'm not here to say it's a launch for free. But the number of companies willing to work more on education is increasing.

10:30 We're seeing that. I mean, conversationally in our interviews and in some surveys that have come out recently, It's very similar. In Europe, at least, we can see that with many of the leading business schools, right? We're not talking about MBA, but this executive education, customized executive education, very, very major companies, big-name companies recognizable all around the world, not just in Europe, not just in North America, also in Asia. And that need is there, and a lot of what these programs and these schools are doing now is addressing that.

11:07 It makes sense. Do you want to go back and do your MBA?

11:09 Yeah, I was telling someone yesterday if I could go back and do it with what I know now based on the reporting that I've done over the last decade and the world I've been in, it would be great.

11:17 Yeah, it would be kind of interesting. Love having you back. Thank you.

11:22 Come back, both of you. Thank you. Thank you so much.

11:25 I did want to call you by your nickname, and I think that's why I like this.

11:29 I love this. Okay.

11:30 I'm not privy to do that. Dimitra Kassanidis, Bloomberg News Senior Editor.

11:34 I love.

11:35 Stefano Caselli, he is Dean at SDA. Bocconi joining us here in studios.

11:41 Travel well.

11:42 Stay safe.

11:42 Thank you.