From Years of Infertility to Her Dream Home Birth | Ep 22: Marilyn's Birth Story

Marilyn Tounger: I'm really thinking about wanting to get pregnant, but most of my cycles my whole life were probably 60 to 90 days, I didn't anticipate it being as challenging as it was. but I really didn't know much about my cycle. like looking back, it's all obvious, but

Bridget: Absolutely.

Marilyn Tounger: I didn't know anything. that was the beginning of a journey of really like education.

Bridget: Today we're sitting down with Marilyn to hear her incredible journey into motherhood from years of infertility to her challenges and victories of trying to conceive to finally getting pregnant with her daughter and then ultimately welcoming her daughter through a beautiful home birth. You'll soon hear how Marilyn stepped into greater knowledge of her body and how healing came from that. If you want to learn more about how to support the five systems of your body so that you can thrive in every season, check out the Holistic Womanhood course at holisticwomanhood.com. and if you want to prepare for your birth the same way that Marilyn explains in her birth story, make sure you check out the Built to Birth course at builttabirth.com or you can even start with a free mini birth class. Now let's listen to Marilyn's story. Marilyn, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. And you're here to share your birth story. But before we get to that, I know there was a little challenging season as you were trying to conceive. Would you mind sharing some insight into how that season started? What was like your first emotion and then where did you kind of start heading toward?

Marilyn Tounger: I didn't anticipate it being as challenging as it was. we weren't like trying to get pregnant, but we had stopped preventing anything kind of like for a while. but I have always had very irregular cycles. So I didn't know much, but I kind of assumed maybe there would be some kind of challenge or I wouldn't maybe like, oops, I'm pregnant. like I knew it had something to do with it, but I really didn't know much about my cycle. And then in 2021, I think I was just depleted. Like I had the opposite problem of a lot of people in COVID. Like I know a lot of people lost their jobs and I was kind of the opposite end, like super busy, which was great, but also caught me in this like spiral of like waking up at 3 a.m. in a stress dream and just starting to work and then working until bedtime and having no boundaries, no nothing. And just being at home, moving from like table to couch, just kind of an awful remote work existence. and so one day I finally just went to my husband John and I was like, I think I need to quit my job and just like take a breather. And thankfully he was like, do it. I think he saw it too.

Bridget: I love it.

Marilyn Tounger: and so I did. And a big thing of that is I hadn't had a period by the time I quit my actually changed jobs, and then I quit my job. but by the time I quit my job, I hadn't had a period in almost seven months. So I

Bridget: Wow.

Marilyn Tounger: also just like I again I didn't know much, but I knew that meant I was probably stressed. Like it's so funny,

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: like looking back, it's all obvious, but I didn't know anything. so

Bridget: Absolutely. Yes, no, you're right. I mean, I even think back to my journey trying to get pregnant with my first, and it took us a year, which isn't crazy, but like it was crazy for me because I was just like, I'm gonna get pregnant the first time. And now

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: looking back, I'm like, of course it took me that amount of time. Like the amount of stress, how depleted my body was, like just the season of life I was in, it's just like hindsight's always 2020, but it was just like, of course.

Marilyn Tounger: Yes.

Bridget: But you don't know that when you're in it. And so like you realize that, like, okay, I haven't had a period in seven months. And was that something that you had experienced growing up, or you just had longer cycles growing up, or you just weren't paying attention because you were, you know, teenager, college student and didn't really think about your cycle too much?

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah, most of my cycles my whole life were probably 60 to 90 days, like two to three months. so seven was long. but I've

Bridget: Okay. Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: always, always had long, long cycles, but it was always explained away. Like when I was young, I was very small and very active, like played multiple like varsity and club sports at the same time, like blah, blah, blah. So they just kind of explain it away. which is so it's just very interesting.

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: And then in college.

Bridget: Well, because I think it's seen so often. So it what is so common becomes normal. And so it's easy

Marilyn Tounger: Yes.

Bridget: to explain it away when you're seeing girl after girl come into your office who isn't having their period or has long periods of time between their periods. And it's just like, yeah, it's it's normal because it's common. I'm seeing it all the time when really

Marilyn Tounger: Yep. Yep.

Bridget: it shouldn't be that way. okay, so you're seven months without a period. Are you guys wanting to have a baby? Then or not yet.

Marilyn Tounger: I'm definitely being like, okay, I want to like start focusing on this, but I also felt awful and was like, okay, I don't really want to get pregnant when I'm this is my starting place. Like I think my my biggest symptom was just debilitating fatigue.

Bridget: Hm.

Marilyn Tounger: I was exhausted. And it was easy to sort of blame that on work or interrupted sleep from waking up and just starting to work or whatever, a lot of screen time. but again, when you're in it, you can't fully see it for what it is. So Quitting really helped. quitting my job really helped.

Bridget: I'm sure.

Marilyn Tounger: And really my focus was like, okay, I'm gonna take like a month or two. I'm gonna try to get some like healthier habits going, like something I need to feel better. and I thought, like, you know, if I just start exercising and maybe I do a whole 30 or eat a little different, like I'll start to feel good again. and so that was kind of my like Starting place. And the goal was like, I want to feel good so that I can start trying to get pregnant. But getting pregnant right now sounds terrifying because I already feel awful. I can't imagine like adding pregnancy symptoms on top of what I feel. so that really, I mean, that was the beginning of a journey of really like education. So I did start with working out. I like hired a trainer. And my sister and I would go work out with him together and that was awesome.

Bridget: And what kind of workouts were you doing? Was it like a Pilates workout? Okay, strength training, great.

Marilyn Tounger: Strength training. Yeah, strength training. which I love. And yeah.

Bridget: And is so good for women. I think there's so many women are scared of strength training because they're like, I'm gonna like get all muscular and bulk up. And it's like you can, but women aren't actually built that way. So it's actually hard for us to to get jacked. Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah, you'll never like accidentally yeah, you're never gonna accidentally get bulky.

Bridget: Yeah. And yet it's so good for our metabolism, for our hormones, for our bone health, for our mental health. Like there's so many things that like strength training and lifting heavy things is good for that I'm like, women, please just like we want the Pilates, we want the walks, we want the running, but we also really desperately need the strength training. So I love that you were

Marilyn Tounger: Yes.

Bridget: like, Yeah, I'm gonna try this out and you went for it. That's awesome.

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah, and I I love it. And it was hard to figure out like playing team sports growing up, you just have so much structure and it's like a game you're playing with your friends. Like there's so much fun in it too. So figuring out what exercise looks as an adult when you played sports, I feel like it's actually kind challenging. but yeah, I I love strength training. I also love Pilates and walking, but those are like yeah, you need it all. so yeah, so so

Bridget: Yeah. And we need it all. It's all good. Okay, so that was one of the things that you were doing with strength training. What were some other things

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: that you were trying to like healthy habits that you were trying to build in?

Marilyn Tounger: bedtime routines, like

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: making sleep a priority, like trying to cut out those three AM like panic wake ups. I actually thought when I quit my job they would stop and they didn't. I just kept waking up at three in the morning stressed about nothing. started working out. changed some eating habits, nothing drastic, but just tried to prioritize foods. Once I wasn't working anymore, it was like a little easier to cook for myself than when I was just working in like door dashing lunch every day.

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: so that was helpful. And some things got like Like I started to feel like a little bit more energy, but definitely was still like exhausted. Like it was a little bit better, but not what I thought. I like I thought I was gonna be all better. I was still struggling with like I had crazy breakouts, like adult acne, and I never had acne as a kid. So that was really strange and like that wasn't going away. and yeah, my period eventually came back. I went it was about seven months total, and then I got a cycle again. But then I started like doing all these healthy things and I'm like, maybe it'll go back to normal. And I had another long stretch. And I was like, I'm not stressed anymore. Like I'm I quit my job. I'm working out. Like, why isn't my cycle coming back? So I did eventually make myself a doctor's appointment. I don't know why I waited so long, but I did finally go see an OB and had kind of an awful experience, which I think is sadly common. And it's just like they have such limited tools to give you. but I went in and to the OB and I kind of had this list of symptoms and said, hey, like I'm really thinking about wanting to get pregnant, but I feel awful and I would like to feel better first. and it took like I think three appointments to get a PCOS or PMOS diagnosis at the time, PCOS.

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: And I just felt so like dismissed or written off. Like I remember telling her, at the time, I think I was 28 or 29. And I was like, I'm 29. Like, I'm doing all the right things. I shouldn't be this exhausted. Like, why am I so tired? I shouldn't feel this way. And she just looked at me and she said, Well, you know, like fatigue isn't typically a symptom of PCOS. And I'm like, I get it's not like a diagnosis.

Bridget: Well, do you have any answers?

Marilyn Tounger: It's not like a diagnosable criteria, I guess.

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: But I'm like, surely you see women with PCOS all the time. And you've heard this before. Like, surely I'm not the first one. I remember when she did

Bridget: Yeah. And

Marilyn Tounger: the ultrasound, she like, she's like, So typically we're looking for like a string of pearls. she's like, I see a few, you know, extra follicles in here, but this on its own wouldn't like it's not that she basically said, like, it's not that bad. And I'm like,

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: I've come to you and told you like I'm feeling awful. And you basically told me it's not that bad.

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: and then really the only solution she had and her language to mask my symptoms, like her language was mask the symptoms was birth control. But she said, but you're trying to get pregnant. So I don't think that's really the option you want. And I was like, yeah, it's not. And that was that. Like there was no

Bridget: And so then it's like what?

Marilyn Tounger: there was no there was no nothing. There was no education. There was no offer for support or like They just outside of birth control, there she didn't have like a tool to offer me. So I think

Bridget: Mm.

Marilyn Tounger: that was a moment walking out of that doctor's point that I was like, like I'm just gonna have to figure this out. and I think I texted you at some point and you sent me books to read.

Bridget: I was thinking about this earlier. I was like, maybe that was a really insensitive thing to say. But I remember saying, like, I know this is not where you want to be in life right now, but I'm so excited for you because you're about to go down this rabbit hole and learn so much about your body and come out the other side, feeling so much more empowered and equipped and like. confident in your body. I believe that. But now looking back, I'm like, that might have been like not the right timing to say something like that. do you feel like during that that season you really did learn so much about yourself?

Marilyn Tounger: So much. Like I don't even know aga it is. It's like you're looking back and you're like, yes, I had a cyst rupture when I was twenty two and everyone just treated it like it was normal or I look back and there were so many little warning signs, so so happy to have you to be like, What do you think is going what do you think is going

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: on? What should I do? And now I think there is a bit more of like an online community where people you

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: can find more information. And it there's pros and cons to that too. But it's been the best. Like tracking your cycle is the coolest thing in the whole world. Like, I'm a like obsessed, not in like a neurotic way. That was something I was really careful about through fertility too, just protecting my mind to not become like obsessed with having a baby or obsessed with. Even like if I missed, you know, tracking my temperature one morning, like it's fine. everything's

Bridget: Mm.

Marilyn Tounger: fine. that's like a tension to hold, I think, when you're going down these health rabbit holes too, is like the the stress of being perfect about everything is gonna be just as bad for you as a lot of the things you're worried about doing or

Bridget: Absolutely.

Marilyn Tounger: avoiding or whatever. So Yeah, but but it genuinely feel felt empowering is just the right th the right word, which it can sound a little cheesy, but when you know your body and yourself, it's so empowering to like go about your life and

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: you feel so much more aware, like so much more able to handle your emotions. Or, you know, I'm someone who feels kind of guilty if I feel lazy or tired. And now to be able to give myself some patience, like, I'm just Just at the end of my lineal phase here, like my period's coming any day now, like

Bridget: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: I can chill a little bit. That's okay.

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: or this is only gonna be a few days. it's just so empowering. Like it just lets you build a life with less stress and more peace.

Bridget: So you walked away from your OB being like, well, that was useless. And you gaslit me into thinking that like my symptoms didn't matter and I'm kind of at a

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: dead end. Like there's nothing I can do for you. I know I gave you some resources, where did you turn to continue on this journey to hopefully get pregnant?

Marilyn Tounger: I saw your a midwife who ran some labs for me, Grace, who's the best. and she was able to

Bridget: We love her.

Marilyn Tounger: order labs for me that my OB was not willing or able to order, which was super helpful. And she referred me to an acupuncturist who was just like my favorite person in the whole world. then I just became obsessed with acupuncture.

Bridget: And what was the reason she gave you for seeing the acupuncturist?

Marilyn Tounger: she's like, go to Mitchell Family Acupuncture. they'll take care of you. Like they're so great at helping regulate cycles. we'll help you with your blood blood sugar regulation, which once the PCOS diagnosis was real, like it becomes kind of all about blood sugar regulation. I think I had a lot of adrenal

Bridget: absolutely.

Marilyn Tounger: fatigue too. That impacts my cycles. but blood sugar's always gonna be a part of it. and the the midwife and the acupuncturist just became like so helpful to me. Like my first consultations with both of them, we talked and they were asking me about symptoms and history and questions for over an hour. Like

Bridget: Hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: things that I didn't even think were important, they were asking about. and then they just kind of got to work.

Bridget: them asking you questions that you didn't even know were related is so huge because I think when we have reproductive issues, women like hyperfocus on their reproductive system, not realizing that all the systems of their body cascade into the reproductive system and how our cycle functions.

Marilyn Tounger: Mm.

Bridget: And so, you know, like even you with PCOS, it's like now we know it's a metabolic syndrome. And that's why

Marilyn Tounger: Mm.

Bridget: we changed it to PMOS. And it's so important to be looking at the whole system, which is what the midwifery care model, that's what they do. They look at the whole person, they look at the whole woman, her family life, like everything that's going

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: around going on around her. To be able to give her the best care. And same with acupuncture. Like you have to know the whole person in order to treat the right thing. again, that's different than the medical model because the

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah.

Bridget: medical model like, here's these symptoms. I can give you this prescription. I can do this surgery for you. And it it's very just like this equals this. And it's not, it's really isolating Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: It's so siloed. So, like my hope, at least with the renaming of PCOS to PMOS, is that women will be able to go to more than just an OB. Like they'll get access to endocrinologists easier. because it's I mean, it's crazy to think about. Like, yeah, when I go to my acupuncturist, I sit there, I talk to her, and she'll ask me questions about things that feel completely unrelated to my fertility journey, which is mostly what we're working on, working on cycle regulation. But I remember we are we're foster parents and we were going through this like really difficult season and I just didn't know what to do and I went to my acupuncture appointment and I was like, I think I just need like some kind of emotional release. Like, and she put those needles in me and she walked out the room. And I just remember like tears welling, and I just started crying like there and then took a little nap. like she knew everything going on in my life. Like she's like

Bridget: Hmm, yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: part therapist, part acupuncturist, herbalist, you know, like able to treat a host of symptoms and things. Or, I could go in there and be like, I'm I'm sorry, I just can't think about anything else. Like this is what's on my mind and this is what's been impacting me and whatnot. And she'd be like, okay, we're gonna, you know, do the usual, but I'll add in this or we'll

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: put a little here.

Bridget: I love that.

Marilyn Tounger: And yeah, just to feel like, yeah, listened to and supported and known by the person who's trying to help you and take care of you.

Bridget: Hm, I know that's so important. I love that. So you are seeing Grace, the amazing midwife, you're

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bridget: seeing your acupuncturist who you love. And is it like you're doing that, like a few months go by and boom, you're pregnant, or is it even from there a journey until you conceive your daughter?

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah, it's it's years. I think it was probably late 2021 or early twenty twenty two when I first saw Grace and started to see Allison, my acupuncturist. And I had been going to my trainer for a few months and like had been, you know, tr slowly trying to improve eating and sleeping habits and all of that. they really helped with some lab work figure out. like actual helpful supplementation, you can guess, but

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: it's so nice to have a lab say like, yes, your vitamin D level is 12. And we would be like, okay, yeah. Well, up that. Yeah.

Bridget: Yeah. That should probably be higher.

Marilyn Tounger: up that, up that dose and get out into the sun as much as I can.

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: and so like being able to have measurable things like that was super helpful. It's not, I think people can perceive it to be a little woo-woo.

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: and some of it is a little woo-woo, but You know. It yeah.

Bridget: If it works.

Marilyn Tounger: but some of it is is measurable. And

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: so yeah, early 2022, and I didn't conceive until spring of twenty-five. So it was three years and a lot of ups and downs. there was about a year in there that we had I felt like we were rocking and rolling. Like my cycle had gotten down to 35 to 45 days, which pretty consistently for about a year, which was like amazing. Like I had never experienced That short of cycles in my life. So I was like feeling really hopeful. And then I feel like something hit, like the holidays hit, and then I had like a 78-day cycle. And I was like, it can't be this fragile. Like, what is going on?

Bridget: Mm.

Marilyn Tounger: You know, like I got out of my routine for the holidays for two weeks and the whole thing is thrown up. Like, I just remember being frustrated and having to kind of like calm myself down, get back to things. And then I did actually end up going to like a traditional fertility clinic, with kind of in my mind already kind of set boundaries of what I was willing and unwilling to do. so by this time it's like summer of 2024. And I've been like I've up thrown my whole life in the air. Like I now have a different profession. I have a whole different lifestyle, like different priorities, like my whole life looks different. I'm just feeling like a, you know, like a stronger and stronger urge for a baby. Like now, like at first it was like I want to feel better. I want to figure out how to have a sustainable life for me, figure this health stuff out and then have a baby. And then it got to a point where I was like, Okay, I feel like I know all the things. I kind of know what works. I'm feeling so much better. But I want a baby. Like, so what are my

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: options? And so I did end up doing some cycles of just medication, letrozole,

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: to support or to help me ovulate. basically I take letrozole for a couple days in the beginning of my cycle and it drops my estrogen, which increases your follicle stimulating hormone so that your follicles mature and you can

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: ovulate. so I did do that for a few cycles on and off. Like I would take a break or do one or whatever. And the cycle I did get pregnant, I did use letrozole, but it was the one cycle that I didn't use a trigger shot. And I'm like, huh.

Bridget: Hm.

Marilyn Tounger: those were like the two, yeah, two medications. So I'm like, I wonder if that like, who knows? Like it was, I think my sixth cycle of letrozole that I got pregnant. So who know like who knows if the trigger shot mattered or not? But it was just we were going on vacation. So I I took the lectrozole and then typically I would go in and they would do an ultrasound to see a follicle mature. And then they would tell me when to take the trigger shot. But because I was leaving on vacation, the follicle hadn't fully matured. So we could be like, okay, it

Bridget: Gotcha.

Marilyn Tounger: will keep maturing and it will ovulate on its own. but my doctor was like, I'm not gonna have you take the shot because I don't wanna actually I don't wanna mess something up actually. Like I'd rather it just ovulate on its own.

Bridget: Hm. And then that was the cycle you got pregnant on?

Marilyn Tounger: and I was like, huh. I probably should Yeah, I was like, I probably could have skipped the shot every time, actually. Now that I'm thinking back at it, it yeah.

Bridget: Yeah, that's interesting.

Marilyn Tounger: we were also, I don't know, stupid. We were on vacation. You know how everyone tells you when you're can't get pregnant, like just go on vacation. It worked, I don't know

Bridget: Yes, the worst. I know. I know

Marilyn Tounger: someone, yes, there is something about it.

Bridget: it's not the right thing to say. However, there is something about it. And honestly, it like makes sense when your nervous system can downregulate

Marilyn Tounger: Yep.

Bridget: and you're just like, you know what, I'm just gonna enjoy this time with the people I love. And it's like, okay, maybe that's what we need more of. You know, whether

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah.

Bridget: it's like Of course you're not gonna plan trips to do that because then like you're stressed out because you're like, but we have to get pregnant on this trip, you know? But there is something about having a sys a nervous system that is regulated

Marilyn Tounger: Yep, totally.

Bridget: enough like it can on vacation so that your

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bridget: body can allow for pregnancy to ha to happen. Because you're if you're

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: in survival mode, your body's gonna be like, Nope, now's not a good time to sustain another life. We can hardly sustain you. When you got pregnant, were you like happy and felt safe and no anxiety? Or was it, the opposite because it was such a journey that you were like worried that the other shoe was gonna fall and, you know, there was going to be more complications?

Marilyn Tounger: It felt like very surreal at first. So I feel like any excitement that was like withheld was not because I it's not really from anxiety. It was just like, no, like I'm not like I was just so used to not being pregnant that I was like,

Bridget: Mm.

Marilyn Tounger: no, I'm not pregnant. so it like took, I think, a little bit for it to set in, like, no, this is real. And then I actually think like because of the process, and part of me was a little bummed that I used the Letrazol. But I actually think like because of the the journey to learn about my own body and my own health, I felt very in control of the like medical fertility route. Like I don't

Bridget: Mm.

Marilyn Tounger: I think if I hadn't had all the education and knowledge I had going into that office, I would have been doing IUI from cycle like there it would have been a different experience. So I I do think

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: it was like a very empowered decision on my end to be like, I know I'm getting a little impatient, but like I'm fine with it. I know

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: the process at least, and I know my body and I'm very aware of how I'm feeling. And I think having the regular cycles, even with the letrozole, really helped me. Like I

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: think my body needed prog progesterone and because I wasn't ovulating, I was getting so little of it. So I

Bridget: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: even felt good after the cycles of not getting pregnant on the letrozole. I was like feeling so good.

Bridget: Yeah, because progesterone is such a protective hormone. Like your body ne it's it's like the healing hormone almost. And so it's like if you're not having those ebbs and flows of progesterone, then your body is just like like, we're scared.

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah, and I'm only, you know, my whole most of my life I was only ovulating five or five times a year, six times a year maybe.

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: and so I I think I really just w didn't get enough of it for a long time. so I

Bridget: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: was like I was feeling so good. So anyway, I just wanted I feel like I went in and I I had, yeah, so much like authority over the fertility

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: journey, even in the medical office.

Bridget: Yeah. And I think that that's so true. Like I even in the birth space, like when when women have done all the all that they can do before they get the epidural or whatever intervention

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: it might be, if they do all of the things, then when they get to that point where they're like, I need this intervention, there's a lot more freedom and safety in that decision and confidence in that decision too, because it

Marilyn Tounger: Competent, yeah.

Bridget: wasn't like the first thing that they did. And like that's where a lot of times I can see regret on the tail end of birth is like when the intervention is like the first thing they jump to versus

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: like going through the alphabet of all the tools that they have, of all the coping measures that they have, of all the different resources until they need that intervention. And so I can see that true for you too where it's like it wasn't the first thing that you jumped to. And even then, that's not the wrong thing to do, but I can see how it would be such an empowering decision because it it's like We've done everything we can in my power. And this is just one more tool and resource that I'm going to use to help me get the goal that I want. And so I think, yeah, that would put you in a in a seat of a lot of authority and peace as you make that decision. And I think that's so encouraging for moms to hear too, is that like you might go into your OB's office and they might tell you, you know, the only thing I've got for you is to do IVF. And so to hear your story was like, yes, IVF. is an option or IUI is an option, but also there's so much we can do before that point that would even support that journey if that's the one that you decide to go on.

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah. Yes, yes.

Bridget: And so I think everything that you did beforehand leading up to the use of those interventions really sets you up for a lot of success. And clearly because you got pregnant

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: and you were able to nourish that pregnancy. And then I was able to support you through your birth and have seen your gorgeous little daughter.

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: So I know that's a spoiler. sorry guys, it's a happy ending. no, but I think everything you did and do you do you feel like you learned so much about yourself through that whole journey.

Marilyn Tounger: Yes. I think I had less anxiety through pregnancy. I think I felt by that point I had gone through this, yeah, whole journey and I just felt so at peace. I think I felt anxiety the way most women feel anxiety, not more and not necessarily less. But it was kind of easy to talk myself out of feeling anxious. Like I think I just thought like. Maybe this won't work. Like maybe like th bad things happen. Like maybe something bad will happen. anxiety is not gonna prevent the emotions that come with that. Right. Like if that happens, I'm gonna be

Bridget: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: sad. I can't protect myself from that. So I might as well be happy and excited because if it works out, which is the most likely scenario, then I won't look back at this time and think, wow, I wasted my whole pregnancy being anxious. Like I can look back at this time and be like, I had so much fun in pregnancy or I really enjoyed it and you know. like loved it, which I did. and I think everything prior to getting pregnant got me there, right? Cause you

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: do reach a point in infertility where you wonder, like, could never happen for me.

Bridget: Hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: And you have to sort of just surrender that, but then at the same time, like steward what you can.

Bridget: Mm.

Marilyn Tounger: Which is just the tension of every it's the tension of all especially all things birth and parenting, right? Like, I can't actually control whether or not I get pregnant. I can't actually control how my birth goes, but

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: I can do things. Like I can steward my body and take care of myself in a way that hopefully sets me up for success. But who like

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: I don't have control. So it's hard because you can do so many things to set up yourself for success, but you don't have control. So it's this like. Double handed surrender and steward and

Bridget: Yes.

Marilyn Tounger: surrender and steward over and over and over again. yeah.

Bridget: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. I couldn't have said it better myself. That is so true. I think that women learn that so deeply in trying to conceive and pregnancy and birth and motherhood, where it's just, okay, like I'm going to do, and that's something I say a lot, is we're gonna try to tip the scale in our favor towards a happier, healthier, and easier birth while also holding our plans with open hands because we

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah.

Bridget: can't control birth. and so I think that's a valuable lesson to learn and hopefully moms are walking away hearing that and taking that to heart and not just saying, well, I don't have any control. I might as well just like throw all my plans to the wind and hope everything like works out. But, being like, I will do what I can. I will steward, you know, the body I have and the birth team I create, all of those things, while also recognizing that there is a wild aspect of birth that I can't tame. okay, so I'm curious now then, after your experience in the fertility season, trying to get pregnant, not enjoying the relationship you had your with your OB, you get pregnant now. Are you like, okay, time to give birth in the hospital, or did you choose a different route?

Marilyn Tounger: I chose home birth with our midwife, Grace. And it was honestly an easy decision. I think obviously you've given birth with Grace before. my sister has too. and one of my best friends, Shannon. And so, and she had been with me in this journey already. So it just felt like so natural that she would be my provider. and then I did keep my care with the hospital. and I actually did find an OB that I really liked. So if I ended

Bridget: Awesome.

Marilyn Tounger: up there, she knew who I was. They knew they had record of everything.

Bridget: So good.

Marilyn Tounger: and because I had I think like the n the knowledge and experience, I was able to like not be mean, but like be the authority even in my appointments. 'cause there's yeah.

Bridget: Yeah. Honestly, that's my favorite part of like home birth and why I'm like every doula, has to go to like home births and recognize like the authority that moms have in the birth space because once you see that, you're like, yeah, hospital births are easy because I know what's accessible. Like I know that like like they're not easy, but it's a lot easier to Have fewer interventions and to keep mom in the seat of authority after you've been to a home birth. Cause you're like, a mom can give birth on the toilet. Like she doesn't have to be on the bed in stirrups or she doesn't have to be connected to all these IVs. And so it's very, it's a lot easier to be like, nope, she doesn't want that because you've recognized what is possible at home. Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: even as a mom, I think like if something happened, like I was kind of nervous about preclampsia just 'cause my mom had it in both of her pregnancies.

Bridget: Hm.

Marilyn Tounger: And I just feel like I have a lot of her genetic like makeup. And so I was worried about it. So I was going through like, what if I have to give birth in the hospital? I really didn't want to. Now that I've

Bridget: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: birthed at home, I'm like, if I end up needing to go into the hospital, like I'll be fine. yeah.

Bridget: Yeah. And what an amazing place to be at. Like, cause there are so many women sadly who are so afraid to give in the birth in the hospital, but like that's the only option they have. And I'm like,

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah. Totally.

Bridget: man, how great would it be to have such great care that that's not even a fear in your mind, you know, that it's like I can

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bridget: I'm gonna be the authority of my birth regardless of who my provider is and where I'm giving birth. And I love that

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: you had that experience even in pregnancy. so with that in mind, you're seeing both providers during your pregnancy. Did you ever tell your OB like, I'm actually having a home birth? I'm just, you know, here to get care from you in the event I need a transfer? And what was that conversation like if you have it?

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah, I actually I think I messaged it in the first time I said anything because I was just nervous. I don't know I

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: don't know why. I get so I get so nervous at the doctor's office. Even though I knew I had had some positive experiences in my couple

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: appointments with this OB, she was still new to me, though. I was unsure. So I think I messaged it in. I'm trying to remember there was a reason why it felt like natural. I think it was around. glucose test or something. I think I didn't go to the glucose appointment and I messaged in saying like, hey, I'm actually doing concurrent care with my home birth midwife. I'm planning a planning up to birth at home. we did this glucose test instead. I feel confident about it. I like sent a message and sent the result to them so they would have it on the record. And then my next

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: appointment, sh we talked about it. And she actually she said something to the effect of I promise I'm not like a crazy person. Like I feel really confident in the care. I've known this woman for a long time. I said she's, you know, she did my sister's birth and some friends of mine too. And she actually said to me, Marilyn, I don't think you're crazy at all. Like, I don't think our staff here would think you are either. and she said, I feel really confident in the care you're receiving. So she

Bridget: Hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: was really kind about it, which is not everyone's experience, but I found a good one somehow. Mm-hmm.

Bridget: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. No, you did. That is so amazing. I love that. So cool. So

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: you're seeing both providers. What are you doing at home on your own to prepare for birth? Are you like inside freaking out about it or are you like pretty calm about it? What were the steps that you took to get yourself ready for birth?

Marilyn Tounger: I listened to a lot of birth stories and watched a lot of like births, which was really helpful.

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: to an extent, I feel like I had to protect myself from like really negative experiences. I wanted some neutral experiences, maybe. Like I wanted to know a wide range of possibilities, but I didn't want like the most tragic stuff in my head.

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: but I listened to a lot. I was, you know, keeping up with. strength training and I don't have another baby to take care of. So this is also probably the easiest pregnancy and that I could like rest as much as I needed to rest. like I just had a lot of free time. yeah, I think listening listening to things, I took your course I prepped my husband as much as I could. He's kind of like a not gonna think about it until it's right in front of him. So we did

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: We did some prep, you know, once I hit like 39 weeks, I was like, all right, let's practice some counter pressure.

Bridget: Yes.

Marilyn Tounger: and I think I just honestly, I don't know if this is good or bad advice, but I just did kind of expect that it was gonna be awful. Like I was not like a pain free, like I'm I don't think this is gonna be painless. I think this is gonna be really hard and really awful in the moment. Like I just kind of accepted that, I think.

Bridget: Yeah. Yeah. I remember being at your birth team meeting and being like, I think Marilyn is seeing this as like a really hard workout where you're gonna hate it in the moment and you're gonna be like, I can't do one more rep or, you know, whatever it is. And then you're gonna get to the end and you're gonna be like, wow, I am so proud of myself for doing this.

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah.

Bridget: I think that was a really good realistic expectation to go

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: into birth with, with like just seeing it as this is gonna be really hard. And I know it's gonna be good at the end of it, but it's still like it's gonna be something that I have to get through and is going to be really challenging. And

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah. Yeah.

Bridget: I think like of course we want to focus too on the fact that birth is so incredible and there's so many beautiful aspects of that. But I think sometimes, especially first time moms, when you see the beautiful birth videos and the twinkle lights and the woman who's birthing without making a sound and

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: it's like that's gonna be me and I'm just gonna be so zen.

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah.

Bridget: And then you realize, like, my gosh, this is freaking hard work. And it's good and it's purposeful. And it's like it's sensation that you've never experienced before. Like

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: it's pain with a purpose. it seriously warps your mind with like how you experience a sensation. But

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: it is hard. And I was like really proud of you going into your first birth experience. And I wonder too if that was shaped by the unexpected journey of fertility where it was like you didn't expect to have to go through that, but it was very challenging to get pregnant. And so I wonder too if that kind of shaped like how you were viewing birth was just like, hey, this is gonna be harder than I expect it to be.

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: but at the end I know it's gonna be good. So

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah.

Bridget: I know I just went on a rant right there, Why don't you share with us now your birth story. What was the moment where you're like, Okay, this is birth. It's starting. And what did you tell John? Who is on your birth team? Who'd you notify? I was one of them. So I'll relive this as you share it.

Marilyn Tounger: I had told myself my whole pregnancy also that I was gonna go to forty one weeks just to prepare. I think my due date was February twenty fourth, but like I so I think the week later would have been March third. And so I just in my head she was due marked third. a lunar eclipse. I was also yeah. A full moon, a full moon lunar eclipse.

Bridget: moon? Yeah. It was a lunar eclipse. So all of us were like, March third Yeah it's

Marilyn Tounger: the worm moon or something. I was like, this is it. and it kind of I actually think it screwed me over not thinking about it. because I thought it was it and I it was not it.

Bridget: No.

Marilyn Tounger: so the night before March third, March 2nd, it was Monday evening. I really hadn't felt anything. I was like, no Bloody show, no mucus, no any, no, I had no Braxton Hicks. Like I had never felt any like practice contractions. Like I was feeling nothing, other than very large, like and un more and more uncomfortable. But I wasn't miserable. I was just ready for her when, you know, she was ready to come.

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: And it was Monday evening, and for a few hours I started feeling like like cramps in my back. And they didn't seem rhythmic. It didn't seem like they were like contraction-y, like there was no wave to them. They were they just felt kind of random. And then I kept having to feel like I needed to go to the bathroom, like I needed to have a bowel movement, and I didn't. And those things cut felt kind of separate and random. But then as the evening went on, they kind of started to come together, I felt. Like I kept having they they felt a little bit more wave like. not intense pain, just like not comfortable. But it felt like something. and so I think I texted you and I said, I think things are kind of organizing, or something like

Bridget: Mm.

Marilyn Tounger: that. and probably the full moon emoji. And I said, I think I'm gonna I'm gonna try to go to bed,

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: but hopefully maybe I'll text you later. And I did. I was trying to go to bed and not get like too excited. I was trying to be calm, and I did go to bed. And I think that was it wasn't super late. It was probably like 9 30, nine thirty would be my guess. And I went to bed and I woke up between one and two and was like just surprised. I I think because it was back labor, it wasn't what I was expecting. Like my baby was

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: not OP. Like I just wasn't expecting it to all be in my back and butt, but that was where I felt every contraction pretty much for

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: my whole labor. I at that point just got up and wanted to move around. so I was kind of walking around the house doing some stuff on the birth ball and was gonna see if things felt like they were intensifying or not. And they didn't necessarily feel like they were intensif intensifying, but they were getting consistent, like they were coming very regularly, like very close together, like two to five minutes, but they were still short.

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: I did at one point wake John up and I was like, Can you just hang can you just hang out with me? Like, yeah.

Bridget: Yeah. I just need moral support here.

Marilyn Tounger: And he was like, wait, why are they coming so close together? And I think he texted you or called you. I was like, John,

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: you don't need to call Bridget. He's like, I feel like we should call Bridget. yeah. First, he didn't do first the first time dad.

Bridget: Dad's it's because he didn't he didn't do the birth videos with you.

Marilyn Tounger: And I think he looked something up and like downloaded a contraction timer app. I'm like, we don't need that. Like, but he was really into it. I was like, okay.

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: and I think he called you and you were like, Yeah, why don't you guys just stay calm, try to get rest? I'm here if you need me. But John's like, How do I know if I need you or not? And I was like, I don't think we need her yet. I'm fine.

Bridget: Listen to your wife.

Marilyn Tounger: I was having full on conversations.

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: There was no, I I think I was very aware that it was early labor. and so I did go back to sleep eventually for a bit. But then waking up Tuesday morning, it just felt like they were relentless. Like I I told you

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: that my goal in early labor would have been to pr like pretend it wasn't happening. I thought maybe I'll invite some friends over to play a board game. Maybe I'll cook something. I don't know. But they just

Bridget: Yeah, your exact words were, I'm going to gaslight myself to think that it's not early labor. I was like, wow, that sounds terrible. That's a terrible way to put to put it.

Marilyn Tounger: That that was my plan. yeah. That was the plan. But they were coming every like two to five minutes and they were very varied in length. So some of them are really short, 10 to 20 seconds, but then some of them are hitting like a minute.

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: And I think by Tuesday afternoon, maybe even late morning, we had called some friends and my sister. And so like my friend Shannon came over and was helping me for a while. You came over later in the afternoon and watched and helped for a while. eventually we got to like evening, like a little past dinner time. And I think you asked me, like, hey, how do you feel about we go home and you guys just try to get some rest? I was kind of Sad, but also

Bridget: Mm.

Marilyn Tounger: I knew it, but I had been it by that point, it had been almost 24 hours of early labor. And

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: I was like, why isn't this getting w more intense? Because it was just an annoying, it was like intense enough and back to back enough that I felt like I couldn't do anything.

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: But it wasn't inten like it wasn't intense enough. And I knew it wasn't. But because it was so frequent, I was like, maybe it's just gonna be easier than I thought. Like maybe I am progressing.

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: and so I was like, yes, go home, go to your family's, go sleep. I will try to sleep. I don't know how that's gonna happen, but I'll try. And

Bridget: Mm.

Marilyn Tounger: I remember you all left. I think my sister and Shannon and Candace were there. Someone stayed a little bit later, she was

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: also very pregnant. I was like, go home.

Bridget: Ha ha ha

Marilyn Tounger: and she was like 36 weeks pregnant, I think.

Bridget: My gosh.

Marilyn Tounger: And I was like, you need to go home. And we did, John and I, we got in bed and he was giving counter pressure for like almost every contraction, like trying to be up with me. Going through them. And I think we hit a point at like 2 30 in the morning where he said, How are we gonna keep doing this? And I was like, How

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: are we gonna keep doing this? yeah. Yeah.

Bridget: Is this a we thing? Or is this an a a me thing?

Marilyn Tounger: I was like, I don't know. And it was shortly after that that

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: we were able to doze for a little bit, that they started spacing out. So instead of coming two to five minutes apart, they s They spread out enough that I was able to get a couple hours of some kind of sleep. And so when

Bridget: Mm.

Marilyn Tounger: we woke up Wednesday morning, they were, they were more like 15 to 20 minutes apart. And Wednesday, I would say, is the day that I thought it's what I thought early labor would be. And you said this, and you're probably right. Like inviting everyone over and kind of like getting in the zone a little early on Tuesday maybe contributed to them st like I don't know. Who knows?

Bridget: Yeah, who knows? I mean, there is

Marilyn Tounger: Staying close together or like we

Bridget: there is that aspect of like sometimes being like it's this is the real thing, like

Marilyn Tounger: It's happening.

Bridget: psyches are pe s psyches are like body out. But

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: I know that's also what you wanted was to have like people around and like have it be fun. And so it's like,

Marilyn Tounger: Well yeah. Yeah.

Bridget: who knows? Like maybe your body was gonna do that regardless if people were were there or not.

Marilyn Tounger: Yes.

Bridget: and we still don't know the answer to that. Like we never will. Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: No, and we and we won't. And she was like baby girls, she was moving into wherever she wanted to move to. Like she was doing work too. And so Wednesday,

Bridget: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Marilyn Tounger: yeah, they were more fifteen to twenty minutes apart, probably the same level intensity, but you got I got breaks. So it was much easier

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: to go about my day. So we went to Grace's office, and checked on baby and me.

Bridget: Did she do any like cervical exam or like a membrane sweep or anything? 'Cause I know typically like if you'd go into an OB, that would be a recommendation that they would have.

Marilyn Tounger: No, we didn't do either. I didn't have a single cervical exam the whole process, which

Bridget: Wow.

Marilyn Tounger: at the time is really what I wanted. I I think there it either way was gonna be bad for me, is what I had decided. Like

Bridget: Hm.

Marilyn Tounger: if there wasn't a lot of dilation, I would have been discouraged. If there, if I was pretty dilated, I would have been too excited. Like I just wanted

Bridget: Hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: to go about things as they were happening. Like I just didn't want to know. In hindsight,

Bridget: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: maybe my next birth. Maybe I would get one or two and have them and just not don't tell me, but like write it down because now I'm so curious. Like I wonder what I was.

Bridget: Huh yeah, huh.

Marilyn Tounger: But yeah, we didn't we didn't do a cervical exam or a membrane sweep. It didn't feel necessary at that point either, because things were obviously happening. yeah, if I was feeling nothing and I was 41 and one day, maybe I would have. But things were obviously. happening. So just didn't feel necessary. No.

Bridget: Yeah, you didn't need to jump in and do anything. Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: So she just, I mean, we listened to Baby's Heart, we checked my blood pressure. and she palpated, Grace always knew the position of my baby, my whole pregnancy, and

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: kind of taught me how to feel and recognize what's what.

Bridget: I love that. Like, that is so unusual for like a hospital experience. And I know because I had one of my babies at the hospital, but I've also had so many clients at the hospital. and so often you get to the third trimester, late third trimester, and they're like, let's do an ultrasound to like make sure we know baby's position, which is good. But I'm also like, as a doula, I know how to find baby's position.

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah. Yeah.

Bridget: Like it's not that hard. but also then you do an ultrasound, and a lot of times we'll be like, well, your baby's measuring big, your baby's measuring small, there's a lot of fluid, there's too little fluid.

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: And like what we've found through studies is the more like the third trimester ultrasounds that we do don't actually lead to better outcomes. So they find what they do find is like increased risk of small for gestational age. but the outcomes aren't any better. So like moms

Marilyn Tounger: Different. Yeah.

Bridget: are more likely to get C sections and inductions, but there aren't any improved outcomes. So

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah.

Bridget: it's like, ugh, we don't need to do that. Like I love that she's

Marilyn Tounger: No.

Bridget: just she's palpating your stomach your herself. She's

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: showing you how to do it. And that's so empowering as well.

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm. And she told me that appointment. She was like, this baby's low. And she said, I I am not, and no one is a predictor of labor or birth. But she did tell me, she said, Marilyn, I do kind of think when things pick up again, it might happen quickly. she was like, Don't hold me to it, but just my my thoughts. And I was like, I won't hold you to it, but that did make me feel good.

Bridget: Yeah, no, that's so encouraging.

Marilyn Tounger: yeah. So she told us just rest and even I think you and Grace, the advice to rest when things felt like they were starting was so good. Cause that's not really what you hear. Like you think, things are kind of starting. I should help it along. I should be curb walking.

Bridget: Mm.

Marilyn Tounger: I should be moving. I should be whatever. And I really needed to rest. Like,

Bridget: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: you know, this was at that point two nights of broken sleep already, and looking at another one potential like, you know.

Bridget: Yeah. Yeah. Hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: And then a newborn. So rest was what I needed to do. So we took that to heart. So we went home on Wednesday and rested. I what I didn't really want to eat anything, but my husband was pretty good about making sure I was snacking or eating, like consuming something. and then we were getting into Wednesday night and it really felt like things were kind of slow. So I was like, ooh, maybe

Bridget: Mm.

Marilyn Tounger: I will get to sleep tonight. and then we sat down and we were we were watching Survivor. And I was laying on the couch and I kind of like breathed through through a little contraction. And right at the end of the contraction, I felt like a pop and a little gush. And I was like, ooh.

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: And so I told John, I think my w water maybe just broke. And I went to the bathroom and I texted Grace and she responded something funny. She was like, ooh fun. she said, Ooh fun.

Bridget: I love her so much.

Marilyn Tounger: and then she told me I there was like a swab in my birth kit that I could swab the liquid to test if it was amniotic fluid. She was like, swab it, let me know what color it I'm like, why don't I what is it?

Bridget: Which again, so cool, so empowering. Like, why doesn't every OB send their clo their patients

Marilyn Tounger: Patient.

Bridget: home with these and be like, hey, just in case your water breaks? Like, and then give us a call

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah, you can test it.

Bridget: so you don't have to like come into L and D and do that whole spiel, you know? It's like, how how cool is that to do that on your own at

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah, it was amazing.

Bridget: home is so, so cool. I've never been able to do that.

Marilyn Tounger: It was amazing. So

Bridget: so fun to be like, Ooh, what color does it turn? Yeah. Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: It was. It was fun. And I was I was pretty sure it was, like, from the feeling. And and so she was like, Okay, great. Keep me posted. Like

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: John's like, Keep me posted? Like that's all she says. I'm like, Yeah, like what Yeah.

Bridget: Which is again so different than the hospital experience where they're like, Okay, time to come in because you're on a clock and and again, it's not right or wrong. It's just different. And

Marilyn Tounger: Yes.

Bridget: it's so important to understand the differences in the different types of care models because it's going to change the way that you interact with your providers and like

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah.

Bridget: your the authority and confidence that you have in your decision making. So again

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah. And it's not at all to say that like Grace is unaware or home midwives are unaware of the risk infection

Bridget: No. Mm mm.

Marilyn Tounger: they're not unaware of those risks. They're just acting appropriately in the moment to those risks. Like Yep. Yep.

Bridget: No. Yes, absolutely. I'm sure she was like, hey, what was the color? Like, was there anything weird about it? You know, but when there's nothing, when there's no foul odor, when the liquid looks clear, you know, and

Marilyn Tounger: Yep. Mm-hmm.

Bridget: you're feeling baby move, then it's like, okay, then we're gonna expect labor, especially because you're already contracting, you know. So it's just like,

Marilyn Tounger: Yes.

Bridget: okay, this is a step in the right direction. I love that. Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: Yep. Yep. Things are continuing. So that was around 9 30 PM on Wednesday night. So Monday night was my first text to you. I think things are organizing. We're about a full 48 hours later, my water breaks. and so after we talked to Grace, we called you and you were kind of similar. Okay, like call me when you need me, like maybe wait and see what happens. and then it didn't It didn't take very long for me to be like, no, I want someone here. And so I think I called Shannon first.

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: And I was like, have Shannon come. because honestly, purely because everything Shannon was doing, like touch wise, like massage and all of that, just magic. Like it just felt good. So I was like, have Shannon come.

Bridget: Well, I feel like that's so great to have someone on your team who lay hands on your body. So whether that's your

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: partner, whether that's a doula or whoever you know, a best friend, a sister, whoever that is, just someone

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: who you feel like, like I feel like my body can melt when your

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah.

Bridget: hands like rest on my shoulders or you rub my back or put your fingers in my

Marilyn Tounger: Yes. Yes.

Bridget: hair. I it makes such a difference in birth. Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah. It does. And John was so helpful too. I felt like I had to give him a little bit more like guidance, which was fine. but yeah, having having Shannon there, I think just something too about having other moms there, it just like it's just the best.

Bridget: One hundred percent.

Marilyn Tounger: I think I felt very taken care of. Like,

Bridget: Hm.

Marilyn Tounger: yeah. So Shannon came and Not long after we called Shannon, we ended up calling you. I think I told John, I said, just call Bridget. I do want her here.

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: things started feeling more intense, I think I really thought certain positions would maybe provide some relief. And relief just isn't the right word. It's just not a thing to

Bridget: Mm mm.

Marilyn Tounger: look for in labor at all. Like, there's just not going to be any relief until the baby is born. but I did, I felt kind of like stuck. Like I would I would be leaning over the bed and that would be feeling okay. But then all of a sudden I'm leaning over the bed for like 45 minutes and I'm like, I feel like I should do something else, but I don't know what to do. and so when you came, I remember you telling me you would put me in some different positions and I remember you telling me like the first contraction or two in any new position is going to be really uncomfortable. And that

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: was helpful because I think I was expecting I would get into a new position and right away I would know if it was better or worse based on how it felt. And that was just a unrealistic expectation, like an incorrect expectation to have. the only thing that brought any relief was when you were like, How do you feel about getting in the tub? I said, We might as well try it. And the water felt so good. it

Bridget: I know, it's such a game changer.

Marilyn Tounger: it was truly unbelievable. And so

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: I think I got in the tub around twelve thirty. so three hours after my water broke. And I was in it until the baby was born. I was not getting out. So we I was in the tub from twelve thirty to five thirty, pretty much, five fifteen.

Bridget: And this whole time are you still having back labour or is it yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: Everything is in my back. Everything is in my back. I had a few that wrapped around to the front,

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: but everything is in my back. And I really did the whole time, like every contraction, there was like rectal pressure, which I wasn't expecting because that's typically I feel like every birth story, that's what you feel at the end. And I just felt it the whole time.

Bridget: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: which was just awful. It was just awful. Yeah.

Bridget: Yeah. And it just depends on like your bab where your baby is at and also like mom's anatomy and her pelvic floor. It

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: like there's so much that contributes to different sensations because I for a long time had the mentality that like if you're having back labor, it means that your baby is in occipit posterior where the back of their head is on the back of mom's back. And I realized like, that th that's often not the case. And I then I experienced it with William, my third, and I was like, wow, this is really gnarly. And I am glad that I experienced it because I have never been I'm of course I've like sympathized with women who've had it, but to experience it yourself where like you literally feel like your low back or your butthole is going to explode, it's like it's a it's a whole different sensation and like

Marilyn Tounger: time for Yeah.

Bridget: It sounds really scary and I don't want moms listening to this being like, my gosh, your butthole's gonna explode. Like, I'm gonna get the epidural. Like that sounds so gnarly. And if that's like if you're truly ridden by fear, then maybe it's better to get an epidural. But I hate even saying that because I don't think you should be making decisions out of a place of fear. And like you walked through labor, you went through labor feeling that I went through labor feeling that and There's nothing in me that was like, that was the worst experience of my life. It was so intense. Yes. But like the good and like the purpose of it was so much bigger than like the feelings that I had.

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: but it is very intense. And why it's so critical that you have the tools in your reach, like whether that's a birthtub, whether that's a shower, whether that's just the right people on your birth team who can provide you with encouragement or safety or coping measures. Like it's it's just so important that you have tools that are accessible so that when labor gets hard, because whether you have back labor or not, it's not a matter of if it's gonna get hard, it's when it's gonna

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: get hard that you have the support that you need. so you said that like being in the birth tub was just like, okay, like this feels so much better. You're in the tub. having those back contractions, those rectal that rectal pressure. I ended up calling Grace a few like a couple hours into you being in the tub and just being like, you know what, I think it's time. Do you remember that?

Marilyn Tounger: Yes, because it was my favorite part. I

Bridget: Yeah. Okay. So yeah, tell me about that experience.

Marilyn Tounger: yeah, I think the the other trippy thing about birth is you just you know it's going to end, but you don't know when. And

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: I actually think time went by faster than I thought it would, but you have no sense of time once you're in like

Bridget: Mm-hmm. No, none at all.

Marilyn Tounger: you have no idea what's going on. I couldn't have guessed what time anything was happening. but you are just so like, how much longer am I gonna have to do this? then you really have to lean back on like, okay, I can do one at a time. I can

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: like, I'm gonna take a break and then I can do it again. And they become manageable when you take them one at a time. I think you

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: probably remember I was like, I just want to break. I had a few back to back, and I was like,

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: those were the worst because I didn't have that like mental reset. So Yeah, I think when you told me, how do you feel about me calling Grace? I was like, Yeah, if you think so, like please do. And that was

Bridget: Ha

Marilyn Tounger: just a mental clock for me of like, she thinks I'm progressing. Like it's time to call Grace.

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: Like that was exciting because it meant you thought things were happening and I was getting closer to the end.

Bridget: Yeah. And for people listening, just so you know, so like usually in the home birth birth situation, like what's going on is usually mom will labor with her partner for a while and then if she has a doula, she'll call her doula. And then typically what will happen is that then as a team, you'll call your midwife. And so you're not there being watched by your providers like your entire labor. And even when your midwives do come, they're not like hovering over you like watching how things are going. They usually step back and they just let you continue laboring and intermittently your midwife or your midwives will come in and like check on baby and check on their heart rate, things like that. And so for Marilyn, like we didn't call Grace because we didn't need her up until that point. just because things were progressing well enough. So we then decided to call her. And when she came, what was that like for you? Was that like an added layer of like, okay, like someone else is here. I have a little bit more support where like things are moving in the right direction.

Marilyn Tounger: Yes. It just felt yeah, it felt exciting in that way, in that like, okay, the e the end is near. It's

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: really what was going on in my brain. Like, okay, I can do this a few more hours.

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: I didn't know if that meant two or five, but it felt like somewhere in that range probably, which

Bridget: Mm. Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: felt reassuring, like, okay, yeah, let's do it. Like, I wanna meet my baby.

Bridget: Yeah. So do you remember how long it was between Grace coming and then you starting to push?

Marilyn Tounger: I think Grace came a little before three, I don't remember when I first started pushing. I felt like a pushy contraction, but I didn't quite understand what it was. I I think I felt a few of them and you noticed them, which

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: I don't know how you did, but you noticed them. And I wasn't sure what to do with them. But at that point, too, I didn't really want to talk. Like I didn't wanna want to ask questions. So you noticed them and you asked me, like, did that feel pushy? And I said, yeah. Yes, it did. And I had had a few of them. And you told me at one point, like, you can push with it. but I have no idea. So it was somewhere I probably pushed, I don't know, for forty five minutes, an hour.

Bridget: I think you pushed around forty five minutes to an hour. Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah. and I remember being like, I can push with it. Because previous to that, getting through the contractions, I'm just trying to like stay so calm and release all the tension

Bridget: Mm.

Marilyn Tounger: and breathe through them. But then when those come, like you giving me permission to push with them, I was like, okay. Like, let's try that. and then it's just crazy.

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: I remember this is the craziest thought, but I remember at some point in pushing. I don't know if this is, I've never heard someone say this. Because I had been feeling so much rectal pressure for days, at some point I I I remember thinking, like, wait, but she's not like coming out of my butt. Like, how is she gonna move? Like, how does this how does this shift?

Bridget: Ha ha

Marilyn Tounger: which was just a funny thought.

Bridget: Well, it feels like that. I mean, and that's why so many moms are like, my gosh, am I like in a poop. Like I feel like I have to poop. It's not and it's like, no, it's not poop, it's your baby. Your baby's head is literally right there.

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah. Yes.

Bridget: And instead of going like straight out your rectum, they go down through the vaginal canal. So,

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bridget: but it does. It feels a lot like, Okay, I'm about to push this baby out of my butthole.

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah. Yep. It was crazy. And then I remember once I started pushing and when Grace came, she had started, you know, checking on baby and me. so every few contractions or whatever, she would put her Doppler up so we could listen to baby and make sure she was okay and

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: she was checking my blood pressure and things like that a few times too. And then I remember

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: she got a mirror and put it in the tub and and told me that she could see the head. But I remember asking how much of it, like I didn't know how excited to be, like, and

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: it was just a little bit, but it was it was good even then for me to know, like, okay, she's coming. I still have work to do, but she's coming.

Bridget: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: or even before that, I think when Amanda came in, the her assistant assisting midwife, that was

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: another like, okay, Grace got here and she thinks things are progressing because she called Amanda. Like

Bridget: Yes.

Marilyn Tounger: those little moments of you all. Knowing things are like continuing on gave me a lot of confidence and like

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: the boost to like, okay, this is gonna come to a conclusion at some point. Like my baby is coming soon.

Bridget: Mm-hmm. it's so crazy too with pushing because like you push, push, push, and then all of a sudden, like it was like, my gosh, baby's here. Like the head's popping out, and then like John is trying to hop in the tub and trying to like start swimming to catch the baby.

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah.

Bridget: and it just like it happens so quickly. walk us through that experience really quick?

Marilyn Tounger: So the very end was so funny. One, my sister walked in the door like 10 minutes before she was born, which

Bridget: Right. Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: was so fun. John had texted her, but her phone had done like an automatic update overnight or something. So she didn't get texts or like it was off and like

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: downloading or whatever. So, but she finally woke up in the middle of the night and checked her phone and then ran down to my house. So I remember Michelle coming in the door, being like, Michelle's here. And then I think it was shortly after that that the head started coming because that was the end there is where I can't imagine what you do when you have an epidural. Because you can

Bridget: Hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: so you can feel the contractions and they're coming at varying intensities, which is so

Bridget: Hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: funny because at some point I was living for the breaks in the Like all of active labor, but then you get to the end and you're like, I don't want a breaks anymore. Just let me push this baby out.

Bridget: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: But you do get breaks, you get contractions that are less intense, and you get breaks in between the contractions. And it my feeling of that was like, I'm not contracting. There's nothing to push with. There's no,

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: you know, I'm just gonna sit here. But as you're

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: starting to crown, like that ring of fire is crazy.

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: I remember Amanda looking at me and she had said this to my sister, and it's a quote my sister and I just laughed at all the time. And so she looked at me and said it to me. She was like, Marilyn, your tissues are stretching beautifully. And I like laughed. I'm like, Great, could they stretch

Bridget: Ha ha ha.

Marilyn Tounger: a little faster? Like, cause those breaks then become not breaks because you're just feeling yourself stretch and it's just painful. And you just want to keep pushing.

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: the thought of not being able to feel that. It's crazy. It would be it would be challenging.

Bridget: which is why it makes sense that when you do have an epidural, your likelihood of like third and fourth degree tears increase because you're not having that

Marilyn Tounger: Yes, because of course.

Bridget: feedback of like, there's there's a lot of sensation. I don't have even like the contraction to push with, so I'm not gonna push through that sensation, which is so important because your

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah.

Bridget: tissues do need to beautifully stretch and open in

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah.

Bridget: order f to reduce tearing. It's so intense, but that's what I mean. Like the pain of labor and birth is so purposeful that when you can see it as like this super valuable and wise feedback and you're going to listen and respond to it, then it's like it's so beneficial for you because it like it helps you birth well. And so

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah.

Bridget: even though as you're sitting there in the intensity of like not having a contraction, wanting this to be done with, feeling your tissues like stretch and open

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Bridget: and burn, it's also it's it's helping you. It's like may it's

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: helping ensure that you don't have this super fast delivery that results in a significant tear. And so the

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm. Yes.

Bridget: design is incredible, but it is hard to sit through the discomfort to like get to

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah. Yeah, it's brutal. The

Bridget: the other side. Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: the only good thing about it is you know it's almost over. Like you know

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: it's almost over and your baby's almost there and it's it's exciting because it's like, she really is almost out. Like she's right there.

Bridget: Mm. Yeah, like you can feel that.

Marilyn Tounger: and then she did. She she came out after all the pushes. She came out in a single push. So it's not like her head came out and then her b she just she just fell into the water. Yeah.

Bridget: Mm hmm. Shot out. Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: He like took off his shirt, I think, and went to get in the water. And Grace is like, You can just reach in and grab her. She's right there. and so John did.

Bridget: I love that though, like the sweetness and eagerness of being like, I'm gonna go get her. Like I will go through the depths of whatever to get her. And it was like, well, you don't have to do that. You can just reach in. But that he was so ready and willing. I think is just it's so sweet.

Marilyn Tounger: He's so ready. Well and like when John tells the story, he talks about it like it's this super chaotic moment. But I'm like, John, we have it on video, like everyone is calm, like no one is stressed. Yeah.

Bridget: Yeah. Well, it feels like even for moms are like, my gosh, I was going crazy. Like that was so hard. It feels so much like bigger and more like hectic than when you're

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: outside of it and you're just like I see it all the time and I saw it for you where you're just like you know, breathing through your contractions or like pushing and you're like, you know, like nothing crazy. And yet you're feeling like you're just feeling so much that it it in your mind you're like, this is nuts and everyone's like, you're doing such a beautiful job.

Marilyn Tounger: Yes. Yeah. But I think that even like the value of having a bunch of women there is like to John, he's never experienced anything like this.

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: And he's looking at you guys like, is this normal? Is this normal?

Bridget: Uh-huh.

Marilyn Tounger: I was pretty vocal. I don't know if you thought I was I felt like I was being very vocal. yeah.

Bridget: I mean you were vocal, but it was very controlled. It was not like this like,

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah, it wasn't chaotic.

Bridget: no, you weren't like, guys, what do I do? Which

Marilyn Tounger: No.

Bridget: is again, there's no that's nothing is wrong with that. It just shows like we might need to like help regulate a little bit more. But you weren't like freaking out, you weren't screaming, you were vocal for sure. And like there were moments moments of being loud, but just because you're loud doesn't mean that anything is wrong or that you

Marilyn Tounger: Yes.

Bridget: are out of control. And I think the vocalization probably really helped you.

Marilyn Tounger: It did.

Bridget: One cope with labor, but also as you were pushing and moving her down, it helped it be more effective.

Marilyn Tounger: And I think like if I just imagine like if it was just me and John in a hospital. I don't know how it would have gone as a first time mom. Because yeah, I I felt confident and empowered going into it, but you don't know what you don't know. Like I still needed

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: reassurance as we were going through it all that it was normal, that things were progressing normally, that like I was doing the right thing, or not that there's a right thing, but like I was doing things that were help it helpful for me.

Bridget: Absolutely.

Marilyn Tounger: and so just being able to be in like a safe, calm environment of women that knew me, that like know John, that, you know, had been with me my whole pregnancy and for years leading up to it. Like, I just can't imagine it being me and John and strangers.

Bridget: Mm, hm.

Marilyn Tounger: and me feeling like freedom to keep going what I was you know what I was feeling. If someone tried to coach

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: me in a moment, I I would have probably done whatever they said because I didn't know like I didn't know. And maybe

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: they would have said something helpful, but maybe not. I don't know. They're a stranger.

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: So I just wish every woman had a team of women

Bridget: Hm,

Marilyn Tounger: That they can

Bridget: mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: trust with their care but also that they trust with their self, like

Bridget: Yeah. That's so sweet. That's so beautiful. Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah. It it feels like such a crazy thing to do in a room full of strangers with a husband, especially as a first time mom, like a husband who's never seen it before, as your main support. Like that feels crazy.

Bridget: Yeah. Which is so funny because I feel like most people see home birth as the crazy thing. But I think

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bridget: when you feel the safety that you feel when you pick

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: the right providers, and it's not just like have a home birth and it's gonna work out. It's like choose

Marilyn Tounger: No. No.

Bridget: a provider who you align with, who is competent and who you feel on every level so safe with. And

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah.

Bridget: that's where the difference lies. and and then Too for you having not just one midwife, but you had two midwives who you aligned with and loved so much. And then you had friends, you had s your sister, you had Adula, like you just had so many people and all of us were moms with kids. Like that's just such a beautiful

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah. Yeah.

Bridget: experience. And I think it's important for women to understand that that's what it has been forever. Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: Forever. Yeah.

Bridget: Like this is how women are supposed to birth, is with other women. Like with the wise woman of the village who knows how

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: to care for pregnancies and for babies in the womb and helping moms make that passage. Like that's how it's intended for women to give birth. And we see that like in a different way, but through home birth, where we surround ourselves with women, these wise women who have given birth before and are bringing in their unique talents and giftings and serve moms. And it's not our it is our job, but it's not our job. We're doing it in like s in a service to you because we love it.

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah.

Bridget: and I hope mom's hearing that if home birth is an option, that it's something that they start exploring because it can be such a beautiful and transformative experience to be able to birth your baby in that kind of environment with those kind of people around you. So and

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah.

Bridget: it can happen at the hospital. It's just a little bit harder to come by.

Marilyn Tounger: if you go through the process of selecting a midwife and a doula and a care team that you trust, we had we talked through this, I think, at my at one of my appointments with you all. Like, I really was gonna be dis disappointed in myself if I got like too tired and had to transfer to the hospital because I was too tired. Like to me, that felt like failure in my head. and we all kind of talked through that. and then after birth, even more so, I I feel really resolved that like had that. happened, it would have been fine. I still would have felt

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: confident and empowered that I had the best team helping me make the decision. that's what I would have needed to do to bring my baby here. And that would have been fine. Like

Bridget: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: home birth is incredible, especially postpartum. Like my the biggest thing about home birth is you just get to go in your bed and

Bridget: Yes. Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: Your mom and sister bring you snacks all day, and you're just in bed with you and your baby and your husband. And it's like a dream. There's no packing, there's no people coming in and out. The midwife comes to you every day for the first three days. Like

Bridget: Mm. Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: it's just postpartum is dreamy and I think I didn't realize this in planning for it. Like I wanted birth to be as calm and peaceful as possible for for me and my baby, but I didn't quite understand the impact on my baby. Like

Bridget: Mm.

Marilyn Tounger: I did after birth. I was in the tub for a bit, moved to the couch, delivered my placenta, and then hemorrhaged.

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: And Grace and Amanda quickly took care of me, gave me a shot of Pitocin and and

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: hung an IV of fluids for me and force

Bridget: Mm.

Marilyn Tounger: fed me juice. And, you know, they took really good care of me. And that whole time there was no chaos. And my baby was laying with John right next to me doing skin to skin. Like so even when something, even when there's a complication,

Bridget: Mm-hmm. I know. That was so incredible. Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: it's just dealt with in a way where there's no like Tilly didn't know anything was going. You know, her

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: little brain and nervous system didn't know anything was wrong. There were no loud noises, no fluorescent lights. She was just on dad sleeping. Like

Bridget: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: she was fine. And so I think even like for her, like for her experience too, in my mind, it's like the ideal experience. You don't always get

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: it. And I'm really grateful for all of the medicine we have available in the hospital. but yeah, it it was just like so special. it just feels like it would have been stressful in a hospital where at

Bridget: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: home I was not even concerned. Even though I passed out.

Bridget: Yeah. Which I know. everything wasn't like your your birth was very straightforward. But yes, you did hemorrhage after birth.

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: Like I remember when Grace pushed on your stomach doing a little

Marilyn Tounger: Mm.

Bridget: fundal assessment. And and that's when like nurses or midwives providers, whoever, will like massage your stomach and they want to make sure that your uterus is shrinking down. And if it feels like boggy or like just kind of squishy. that often means that the muscle is tired and it's not contracting effec effectively. And so when that happens, it makes it more likely that you're you're gonna have more bleeding. And so, you know, she pushed on your s on your tummy and all of a sudden it was like this waterfall of blood. And it was so quick. It was like, like we need to get some pitocin. Amanda, like can you grab it from the bag? they grabbed it, administered it, and it was just like fine. And then yeah, because of that blood loss and just the exhaustion of being in labor for as long as you were without a lot of eating, like we try to keep you hydrated, but I'm sure you were dehydrated by that point. Like you fainted and you were safe, like you were with me and Grace. But then they get you up in bed. And that whole time Amanda's like, Can you tell me about the story where you and John met? And it was just like, this is so amazing. Because again, they are looking at this experience. As a whole.

Marilyn Tounger: Mm.

Bridget: And they're saying we need to regulate her nervous system because your nervous system is so critical in that like acute healing after birth and your body's ability to regulate again in terms of like blood flow and just your hormones and your stress. And so it was like, let's look at this whole experience, but then let's think about dad and Tilly and make sure that this isn't this trauma, like stress,

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: like we gotta get. And of course, if it was like emergent. transfer, it would have been like, we gotta get the ambulance here. It was gonna

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah.

Bridget: be like boom, boom, boom. They always go into like a competent midwife is gonna go into every birth knowing exactly what needs to be happened if an emergency happens.

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bridget: But the way that they carried themselves was just so amazing in an event that could have been a lot more stressful and traumatizing. You

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Bridget: know what I mean? I feel like especially dads, that is their concern about birthing at home is like all the what-ifs, all the cause they're the protectors. They want to make sure that mom is safe. And I think it's so powerful to hear the home birth situations that aren't just like super easy. Like again, your

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: birth was very straightforward, but there was a potential emergency at the end of it, you know, if if you weren't properly cared for. But the fact that you had a team of people around you who knew how to take care of you in that situation is so important to understand before you put yourself in that position of choosing

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: a home birth, of choosing your midwife. And so those are great questions to ask if you are considering a home birth is what

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah, absolutely.

Bridget: would you do in an emergent situation? You know, if baby's not tolerating labor well, if Baby comes out not breathing, if I

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: hemorrhage after birth, things like that. Those are great questions to ask your midwife.

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Bridget: after that whole journey of struggling with infertility and then finally getting pregnant, having a long labor. What was that feeling like when you held Tilly and even the days after, like processing like, my gosh, like this day might not have ever come, but here I am sitting in the day that I have always dreamed and hoped for. What was that like?

Marilyn Tounger: I think it just feels surreal. I mean like overwhelming gratitude, even still. I think like when you go through a struggle for fertility, there's just a gratitude that people that don't struggle for it don't they have it. They're grateful for their kids, they love their kids. But I think it just makes newborn life easy because you're just so thankful that they're here that like.

Bridget: Mm.

Marilyn Tounger: Yeah, I'm waking up every two hours at night. Like, who cares? I get to hang out with my baby. Like, I can't believe she's real. You also have a ton of adrenaline

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: and happy hormones hopefully coming in that support that. and again, I went in not like the healthiest person in the world, but I went in with really like healthy, like tried to really maintain good health habits so I wouldn't be depleted going into postpartum.

Bridget: Yeah, and that's huge.

Marilyn Tounger: because I know people can have really challenging experiences postpartum. But I but I think

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: mindset is more than we maybe give it credit for. And I think you're like I just am so overwhelmed that I get to be her mom, that she's here, it just is so overwhelmingly f fun and joyful and cool.

Bridget: Yeah.

Marilyn Tounger: John too ran like a half marathon, I think, until he was like two weeks old. And I think I joked

Bridget: Course he did.

Marilyn Tounger: he he went out to run a couple days postpartum, like go get a little run in because he was training. And I said, You go run your little marathon. Like nothing you do will ever be as cool as what I just did. Like have fun, challenge yourself. I know he'll

Bridget: Poor guy.

Marilyn Tounger: never be as cool as me. Like I just I just felt, yeah, a lot of confidence and a lot of gratitude. And she's just She's just the best. Like she's just so

Bridget: Hm.

Marilyn Tounger: much fun. I'm just grateful I get to be her mom.

Bridget: Hmm, I love that. Well, to close us off, for the woman who is struggling to conceive or who has struggled to conceive and is now pregnant. What is like an advice or an encouragement or wisdom that you can impart to her?

Marilyn Tounger: I think what we were talking about earlier about like holding surrender and stewardship both. I just really believe we don't get to control life. Like, I really think my pregnancy and birth experience is like a co-laboring with God to bring new life into the world. And

Bridget: Mm.

Marilyn Tounger: I think about this all the time too when I look at her. Like I got to build Tilly in my belly somehow. Like I got to build her and it just kind of happens. Like I did what to do. Yeah.

Bridget: Yeah, without you telling it to happen or coordinate anything, it just happens.

Marilyn Tounger: but I just really believe the flip side of that is there is a God who created her and she's an act of his will. Like he determined

Bridget: Mm.

Marilyn Tounger: who she was, like her little personality, her features. And so now I feel like I just get to have this fun ride of like, figuring out who God made her to be. and so I think like holding that surrender of like God is ultimately in control of all this, but I get to steward my part in it. And like I get to be a part of this little life. And I get to be a part of even like taking care of my body I think there was a there's the moment too where you're like, what if I never get pregnant? What if this never happens? It's like, okay, there's still so much value though in learning how to take care of myself well so that I can live whatever purpose I have to live. Like, surely if I don't have a baby, you know, that might be something that is hurtful for the rest of my life. But I'm not gonna let that make my life meaningless. Like I'm gonna go about

Bridget: Mm-hmm.

Marilyn Tounger: my life and s and like figure out how to contribute to my community or Love my husband and my family and my nieces and do my work well. And so like I'm gonna steward my body for that purpose of like living a good life, like living life well. and then I'm gonna like surrender the things I can't control to the God who can control them and believe that he wants good things for me. And when I get to the end of my life, I want to be able to look back and think like I did this well and

Bridget: Mm.

Marilyn Tounger: like I did what was in my power well. yeah, there's so there's so much of conceiving and pregnancy and motherhood that's up to us, and there's so much that's not. And living in that tension is like the constant challenge, I think, of life. So as much as you can surrender

Bridget: Yeah, absolutely.

Marilyn Tounger: the things you cannot control, but steward well what you can, in life, in pregnancy

Bridget: That's the balance.

Marilyn Tounger: and mothering, yeah.

Bridget: Mm-hmm. I love that.

Marilyn Tounger: And it's so cool, like it's so fun to be a part of. A little life. Like it's crazy. W women are too casual about it.

Bridget: It is. It is crazy. I know. It is. It's so amazing. that's so important for moms to no matter what season they're in, whether they're in the season of trying to conceive or of being pregnant and preparing for birth or experiencing the challenges, the ups and downs of motherhood, it is that balancing act of stewarding what you have and surrendering what you can't control. And

Marilyn Tounger: Mm.

Bridget: I think that's such a valuable reminder for moms. And I'm glad that you brought that up and hopefully moms are walking away with encouragement that there is so much that they can do, but they don't have

Marilyn Tounger: Mm-hmm.

Bridget: to hold the burden in the way of doing it all because there are things that we can't control and that's okay. And we can live in the freedom of knowing like like I I have what I have and that's been given to me for a reason. I'm gonna take care of what I can take care of and let go of the rest. And I think a lot of times That's where stress enters is when we try to control the things we can't control. And it's just, I think, a good reminder for moms that they don't have to control everything. hopefully moms are walking away encouraged. I know I'm I'm encouraged by that as well. and something that I have to remind remind myself of all the time. So I appreciate that reminder, Marilyn. thank you so much for sharing your story. It has been wonderful having you on and just listening to your birth story. And you have now stepped into someone else's story. I you're say you were listening to birth stories to prepare yourself for birth. And now you're a part of another woman's journey to welcoming her baby. And I just I hope you are walking away with like, my gosh, that's so cool that I gotta be

Marilyn Tounger: Ha ha ha

Bridget: a very small but also important role in someone's positive birth. So thanks, Marilyn.

Marilyn Tounger: Thank you.

Bridget: Mama, whether you are trying to conceive currently pregnant or preparing for birth, I hope this conversation reminds you of how powerful it can be to understand your body and feel informed and supported along the way. And if you're preparing for birth and you want more resources, more tools to go into your toolbox for a happier, healthier, and easier birth, check out the Built2Birth course at builttobirth.com. And if you want to go deeper into your menstrual cycle or how to heal it or how to support yourself in the postpartum season for optimal healing, check out the Holistic Womanhood course. It's going to give you the foundations of healthy living using the five systems of your body. You can learn more at holisticwomanhood.com. Mama, thank you so much for being here with us today. And I will see you in the next Built to Birth podcast.