Q & A | BONUS | Season 3 – Burden of Guilt

Hi, this is Nancy Glass, your host on Burden of Guilt. So we see lots of listener comments on our shows, and we decided to do an episode where we answer some of them. All right, so I'm going to introduce you to Todd, my producer. You've been going through everything. Todd, what have you got for me?

Yeah, so we received lots of questions, mainly about the forensic interviews that were done with the children. One person wrote, I'm a forensic interviewer and am horrified at how the kids were interviewed and how this case was handled. And another asked, why are we even hearing the forensic interviews?

Well, that's a good question because we certainly thought about not hearing them.

Yeah, and we even talked about using voice actors instead of the actual recordings.

So, Todd, this was a hard one. I mean, we all went back and forth. But what we realized was when you don't hear the actual voice, you don't hear the tone of voice. And when you don't hear the tone of voice, you don't really understand the intention. And that's why we went with it.

We got a question from Rebecca. She asked, why did Cindy threaten to sue her children's pediatrician? Wasn't she just doing her job?

Well, yes and no. And Todd, why don't you share the details of that?

Yeah, I think what happened was when Cindy called the doctor after learning about her child's injury, she didn't get a call back till the next day. And it was the nurse and the nurse said, you know, it's just routine what we had to do to file a report with DHS. Your son feels safe at home. Don't worry about it.

It doesn't seem like much of an injury and we're not worried about it. And again, she waited a day to call back.

Correct. Two days later is when Cindy got a phone call from Kamala at DHS and said, we're taking your kids away while we investigate.

And that was the thing. It wasn't just we're looking into it, but we're taking your kids away.

Right. And so her and Kenny were thinking, well, how else could this injury have happened if there was no wedgie? And they thought about the bikes and the fact that her son was riding his brand new bike.

And he had wet shorts on.

Had wet shorts. He had been swimming. So on Friday, she talks to the doctor and said, hey, did you consider the fact that his injury could have been from that? And the doctor said, oh, we didn't know that. Which is why Cindy got upset and said, well, I hope you have a good lawyer because we're going to sue.

Now, we can all judge how she could have or should have reacted. We don't know how we would have reacted. But there is one thing I know. Innocent people get angry because they can't understand why they're being accused of something that not only did they not do, but wouldn't even imagine doing. So she got mad and it didn't make the situation any better.

Yeah. She's also said that's her biggest regret in this story.

Yeah.

Another question has to do with the guy who investigated for the Steamboat Springs Police Department. They asked, what happened to Detective Cyphers?

It's interesting because we wondered that, too. And according to our sources, he quit the police department.

And that was something we asked Kenny's lawyer, Chris Decker.

Detective Cyphers... left law enforcement before the trial had even begun, my sense of it was that it was a very unpleasant experience for him and that this particular case probably played a large role in his decision to get out of law enforcement. And it's made incredibly more difficult when you have active interference by a parent who's actively trying to manipulate an investigation and give false information in hopes that that will steer an investigation. I would say in the very next breath that Steve was quite adept at manipulating our systems, including the domestic court, the Department of Human Services, law enforcement, and even for a time, the district attorney's office. So Steve's abilities in manipulating the situation

were quite high.

And here's what Kenny said about Detective Cyphers.

The detective was a nice guy trying to do his job. And he was actually a beginner detective. So I think he meant right. But he was easily targeted and manipulated by Steve on high-pressure tactics. That was probably beyond his control. And I think the district attorney, Carzen, was the same situation as in Detective Cyphers. I think he was trying to clean up a mess from someone else's mistakes.

Yeah, apparently... The case came to Carson because someone else in his office, and bear in mind, there was only one other person in his office, left, and then the case dropped in his lap.

Since there were only two people in the office, they just split up the cases. And then when the assistant DA left in March of 2020, Matt Carson took over Kenny's case.

What makes things hard is everybody's human, you know? When you listen to a case or when you follow a case, a lot of people have one of two reactions. One is, I would never do that. Well, you don't know what you would do, but everybody is their own individual and they do whatever occurs to them. Secondly, they want people to be either all good or all bad. And nobody is.

The good people have some bad parts. The bad people have some good parts. All of these stories are really gray. Even when it's clear there's a good guy and a bad guy, there's always something fuzzy in the middle that people disagree on.

Yeah, it's easy to look back and ask, like, how did this happen? How did they file charges on Kenny? Especially when the child in the initial forensic interview didn't report anything beyond a playful wedgie. I mean, the evidence was questionable.

When we say all it was was a wedgie, What we're doing is saying that happened. But according to Kenny, that never happened. So the basis we're starting with isn't true. And that's really upsetting. I mean, when you think about it, and we talk about this in the last episode, this family may never, ever be repaired. And that's really sad.

And I wish people would think a little bit more. before they engaged in this kind of fight.

Yeah, there were a few comments from people who said they did not expect the podcast to end the way that it did. And in my research, I talked with a bunch of other parents who had been alienated from their children. And there was one mother who, like Cindy, had three children who all stopped talking to her. Well, that woman's daughter recently returned after years of zero contact.

And she told me, That even when the kids come back, there is no happy ending. That there's always going to be pain, a lot of hurt and trauma that never goes away.

And the thought of they could walk away again. They could throw this in my face.

Right.

I get it.

You know, and we always do have a redemption arc at the end of these. But I will say... That this weight being lifted off of Kenny and Cindy was at least a good outcome.

Yeah.

Several people asked what's next in Cindy's fight to get her kids back. And it is still ongoing and working its way through the court system in Colorado. But as far as what we think will happen.

Who knows?

I mean, now it's a waiting game for her. She's waiting to get permission to get her kids back. But the fact is, after all these years, who knows how they feel? I mean, wouldn't it be nice if the kids realized what happened and came back to her and also, you know, could say, well, we forgive our father and we forgive our mother. Let's move on. Let's be a family.

But that's highly unlikely.

And we should specify that this hearing only involves Cindy's twin boys. Her daughter is aged out of the family court system now because she's an adult.

Right.

She lives in another country. I don't know what that says, but her daughter moved to another country.

Yeah.

And you heard Cindy say this throughout the podcast and others have asked, do you think Cindy would have gotten her kids back if she had dumped Kenny?

Well, I think the judge implied that. However, Kenny would be left with this accusation. Can you imagine what it would have been like for him to have gone to prison on this charge.

We talked to Cindy about that.

If I had chosen my children and lied to say that this happened when I know it didn't, Kenny goes to prison. I'm in a living hell for the rest of my life. I'm going to hate myself. I'm going to lose my own self-respect. I might in some way be resentful with my own kids. So all of that's going through my head, but you got to keep in mind too, This is early in the process of me saying, they're going to figure this out. It's so obvious. But that never happened. You know, it just escalated.

If she did leave Kenny, the accusation and argument could be made, but this is a woman who associates with child molesters. She shouldn't have her children back. So it would be used against her no matter what. The problem is, In these kinds of cases, the logical thing doesn't work. She could try to do the right thing and say, OK, I'm breaking up with him. It doesn't mean it's going to work when you're up against the people you're up against.

A question from Dana. She asked, could Cindy's ex, Steve, have been criminally prosecuted for what he did?

I would think so, but he wasn't.

Yeah, it was something we talked to the DA, Matt Carson, about, about pressing charges. And this is in relation to Steve's comment slash joke about making a campaign contribution. If Matt Carson prosecuted Kenny, and this is what he said.

We could have prosecuted him. But if I had made that decision, I would have had to get off the case. I can't be the star witness in a false reporting attempting to influence a public servant. prosecution when I am the public servant. We would have to give the case to another prosecutor's office, which is a big ask, honestly, to ask another jurisdiction to pick it up. But, you know, proving that beyond a reasonable doubt to 12 jurors is another matter. It's very hard to prove, as it should be.

There's also the reality that that would have been undoubtedly defended with all the resources that he has at his fingertips. So, yeah, I did think about it and he earned it. in my opinion, but the viability of that case is a different question and it wouldn't have been my burden to prosecute it as well.

I will say I am glad we got to hear from the district attorney, Matt Carson.

That was amazing, really, because that was a guy, unlike the judge, who said, I made a mistake and I'm going to own that and I'm going to try and rectify it. And I think that takes a lot.

Now, we told you how only two prosecutors worked in the district where Cindy lived. And the next question kind of touches on that. They asked, do you think a case like this would have gone as far as it did if it happened in a city versus a small touristy town like Steamboat Springs?

I don't know the answer to that because certainly city judges have made mistakes. It's really hard to know. I mean, I live here in Philadelphia and that's a big city and judges here can be really terrible. But they're elected. And by the way, they're elected in Steamboat Springs.

One update we haven't talked about is that the family court judge, Judge Hoke, she's no longer on the case. They have a new judge who took over.

Judge Hoke had dug in and wasn't willing to, you know, see things differently. A new judge will be able to look at what has happened, how everything was overturned, what these people went through. And I would hope that a new judge would say, it's time to put an end to this. You get your kids back.

We talked about this in the podcast, how much money Cindy has spent on this case. Someone wrote in, do you think if they didn't have the financial resources, the results would be the same?

No.

The person with money always wins. I'm sorry. I know that's cynical. But if you can afford a better lawyer than your opponent... you're more likely to win whether you are right or wrong. I've covered too many of these cases to have faith in the system.

Another question had to do with Steve. Someone asked, have you heard from him since the podcast ended?

Well, we don't share every single detail because we don't want to bore everybody with this. But Todd, you're the person who has been in, I guess you could say communication with Steve, but why don't you talk about what happened there?

Yeah, he and I talked in the summer of 2026. He called me and he was a little upset that we had reached out to him through an email. He said it was not his. And so we talked for a while and I told him at the end of the conversation and put it in an email. I said, hey, listen, if there's someone you think we should talk to or some evidence you think we should see, please send it my way.

Yeah, feel free. We really want to hear from you.

At the time of this recording, I've not heard back from Steve.

Okay.

And by the way, how did you get the email address he declared to be wrong?

So we use this program, LexisNexis, which kind of gives you any email address attached to people, addresses, things like that. And I will say, too, 95% of the people I reach out to do not want to talk to me. So when I don't get a response, I just assume they don't want to talk to me.

No.

Kelly asked, what do you think happens if the kids hear this podcast?

Wow, Kelly, good question. I don't know. I don't know. You know, Cindy didn't even want to tell the story. Remember, it was Christine who told us about it. But then Cindy thought, you know, I'm at such a loss already. It would be hard to make the situation worse. There's a possibility this could make it better. And I hope it does.

So another question is to you, Nancy. They asked, what surprised you the most in this story?

Well, I think what surprised me the most was how unreasonable the judge was. That for me was so tragic that somebody would take such a hard stand in the face of the facts.

For me, it's the fact that it's still going on seven years later.

Isn't that incredible? How much time, how much expense, how much pain is carried by everybody involved?

Yeah, yeah.

And finally, there are a lot of questions and comments about the number of commercials.

Yeah, I hear that all the time. And even who gets to advertise? Well, we have no control over that. But I will say one thing. Without the ads, we don't have a show. The ads pay for the show.

I don't know if the word's ironic or coincidental, but episode 10, the final episode came out September 30th, 2026. That's the seven year anniversary of Kenny being arrested.

Wow. Well, I found it so fascinating that it's Steve's new ex-wife who came to us with this story.

You know, I can't help but think about one sentence from Christine's email to us. She wrote, I believe your production will be far more accurate and compelling once all parties' perspectives and evidence are fully considered.

I mean, that really tells you that something bad happened.

I do hope one day we can eventually have that conversation with Christine.

And when she does decide to talk to us, we'll share it with you. Yeah.

And don't forget, you can always email us at burdenofguiltpod at gmail.com. That's burdenofguiltpod, P-O-D, at gmail.com. And Nancy, that's a wrap for Season 3.

I hope you enjoyed it, and I hope we answered some of your questions.

Q & A | BONUS | Season 3

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