CZM Book Club: "Ark of Bones," by Henry Dumas with Dr. Treasure Shields Redmond (Part 1)

0:11 Hello, and welcome to Cool Zone Media Book Club, the only book club where you don't have to do the reading because often I do it for you, but sometimes other people do the reading for you, and that includes this week. I'm your host, Margaret Killjoy, and today my producer, Hazel.

0:28 Hi, Hazel.

0:30 Hi.

0:31 We are honored to be joined by Dr. Treasure Shields Redmond, who is here to read us a story. How are you today, Dr. Treasure?

0:39 I am doing quite well indeed. So glad to be here.

0:43 Dr. Treasure, you are many things. You are a poet, an educator, a history keeper. And would you be able to introduce yourself a little bit and talk about yourself and your own work?

0:54 Of course.

0:55 Yes.

0:56 Greetings, it is I, your erstwhile conjurer, Dr. Treasure, here to talk about an exalted and ascended ancestor, Henry Dumas. I am a professor of creative writing. I am a professor of African-American lit, a poet, a culture keeper, a conjurer, and the founder of the nonprofit, The Community Archive. where we collect and preserve the oral histories, the disappearing stories of mostly African-American communities. It's all ancestors, all the time with me. And I am so happy to be here to talk about the beloved Henry Dumas.

1:42 I am really excited about everything you just said about your work. I'm going to check a lot of it out. You also have a podcast too. Is that, is that true?

1:50 I do. So I'm a tragic hipster, so I have several podcasts.

1:55 Excellent.

1:56 Me too. Right, exactly. We just keep collecting them because we want to hear ourselves talk. But most of the podcasts are archived at thecommunityarchive.org. So one that I'm really proud of is The Memoir My Dad Wouldn't Write, which is a podcast where my father and I talk through his life chronologically, really revealing, challenging, fascinating conversations. So everyone who has the type of dad who is closed mouth and my dad is a member of the silent generation.

2:35 So I am always surprised at how forthcoming he is. But if you have a dad that's more like most people's dads are, you will really enjoy the revelatory nature of that conversation. So You can check it out at thecommunityarchive.org, or you can go to Spotify or any of the other places you listen to pods. And it's called The Memoir My Dad Wouldn't Write.

3:02 That's awesome. And a lot of people who listen to this show also listen to my history podcast, Cool People Did Cool Stuff. And if you listen to that podcast, you should definitely check out that memoir because, well, now I'm going to because it sounds really cool. It is October. It is spooky month, although I like to believe that spooky month is every month. And I hear that you have a ghost story for us.

3:28 Yes. So in 1968, our beloved ancestor, Henry Dumas, succumbed to the bullet from a policeman. He was murdered. And his legacy of incredible unfinished novel, beautiful prose, wonderful poetry, fell to his good friend, my father, Eugene Redmond, to execute. So I have been menteed by my dad for some decades now on how to love on the legacy of Henry Dumas. Henry Dumas wrote a story, oft anthologized, called Ark of Bones. So Ark of Bones is our ghost story I'll be reading today.

4:17 Hell yeah.

4:18 Yeah.

4:19 I also think that this work that you talk about, I guess this is what we're going to talk about next episode when we do a whole interview about this, but I'm really excited about this idea of consciously, intentionally preserving someone's legacy. I mean, anyone's legacy, but especially someone who is fucking murdered by the cops. And what it means to be a cultural creator in a position in which you can get murdered by the cops, and therefore what it means to have an entire community prepared to help take control of that legacy. So I'm really excited about this.

4:55 Thank you. Me too.

4:57 All right, let's hear it.

4:59 Arc of Bones by Henry Dumas. Had I, he was following me. I know he was following me, but I just kept going like I wasn't paying him no mind. Had I, he never fished much, but I guess he know the river good as anybody, but he ain't know where the fishing was good. That's why I knowed he was following me. So I figured I'd better fake him out.

5:23 I ain't want nobody with a mojo bone following me. That's why I was going along down river instead of up, where I knowed fishing was good. Had I, he hard to fool. Like I said, he knowed the river was good. One time I rode across to New Providence with him and his old man. His old man was drunk. Had I, he took the raft on across, me and him, His old man stayed in New Providence. But me and Head Eye come back. That's when I knowed how good of a river rat he was. Head Eye, he okay. Except when he gets some kind of notion in that big head of his. Then he act crazy. Trying to show off his age. He older than me, but he a little big for his age. Some people say reading too many books will stunt your growth. Well, on Head Eye,

6:13 everything is stunted. Except his eyes and his head. When he gets some crazy notion running through his head, then you can't get rid of him till you know what's on his mind. I know something was eating on him, just like I knowed it was him following me. I kept close to the path, lest he think I was trying to lose him. About a mile from my house, I stopped and peed in the bushes, and then I got a chance to see how Hedai was moving along. Hedai, he droop when he walk. They call him Hedai cause his eyes look bigger in his head when you looked at him sideways. Head-eye about the ugliest guy I ever run upon, but he was good-natured. Some people call him Eagle-eye.

6:57 He about the smartest nigga in that raggedy school, too, but most time we call him Head-eye. He was always finding things and bringing them to school or to the cotton patch. One time he found a mojo bone, and all the kids except me went around talking about him putting a curse on his old man. I ain't say nothing.

7:17 It wasn't none of my business. But had I, he ain't got no devil in him. I found that out. So I'm kicking off the clay from my toes, but mostly I'm thinking about how to find out what's on his mind. He got this notion in his head about me hogging the luck. So I'm faking him out, letting him droop behind me. Pretty soon, I break off the path and head for the river. I could tell I was far enough. the river was getting ready to bend.

7:48 I come up on a snake twisting toward the water. I was getting ready to bust that snake's head when a fox run across my path. Before I could turn my head back, a flock of birds hit the air pretty near scaring me half to death. When I got on down to the bank, I see somebody's cow lopping on the levee way down the river. Then to really upshell me, Here come Head Eye drooping long like he had ten tons of cotton on his back. Head Eye, what you following me for? I was mad. Ain't nobody thinking about you, he said, still coming. What you following behind me before? Ain't nobody following you. But hell, you ain't.

8:32 I ain't following you. Somebody's following me and I'd like to know who he is. Well, maybe somebody's following me. What you mean? Just what you think? Head-eye, he was getting smart on me. I'd give him one of my looks, meaning that he better watch his smartness around me, cause I'd have him down eating dirt in a minute. But he act like he got a crazy notion. You come this far ahead of me, you must be got a call from the spirit. What spirit? I come to wonder if head-eye ain't got to work in his mojo too much.

9:10 Come on. Wait, I grabbed his sleeve. He took out a little sack and started pulling out something. You fishing or not, I asked him. Yeah, but not for the same thing. You see this bone? Head-eye, he took out that mojo. I stepped back. I wasn't scared of no bone, but everybody been talking about head-eye and him getting sanctified.

9:35 But he never went to church. Only his mama went. His old man only went when he's sober. And that'd be about once or twice a year. So I look at that bone. What kind of voodoo you work with that mojo? This is a key bone to the colored man. Ain't but one in the whole world. And you got it. I act like I ain't believe him, but I was testing him. I never rush upon a thing I don't know.

10:07 We got it. We got it. It belongs to the people of God. I ain't feel like people of God, but I just let him talk on. Remember when Ezekiel was in the valley of dry bones? I reckon I did. And the hand of the Lord was upon me. And carried me out in the spirit of the valley of dry bones. And he said unto me, son of man, can these bones live? And I said unto him, Lord, thou knowest. And he said unto me, go and bind them together. Prophecy that I shall come and put flesh upon them from generations and from generations. And the Lord said unto me, son of man, these bones are the whole house of thy brothers. Scattered to the islands. Behold, I shall bind up the bones and you shall prophecy in thy name. Had I, he stopped. I ain't said nothing.

11:09 I never seen him so full of the spirit before. I held my tongue. I ain't know what to make of his notion. He walked past me and loped on down to the riverbank. This here old place was called Dead Man's Landing because they found a dead man there one time. His body was so rotted and ate up by fish and crawdads that they couldn't tell whether he was white or black. Just a dead man. Head Eye went over to them long planks and logs, leaning off in the water and began to push him around like he was making something. You was following me. I was mad again. Head Eye acted like he was egging me.

11:52 He put his hands up to his eyes and looked far out over the water. I could barely make out the other side of the river. It was real wide right along there and take a couple of hours by boat to cross it. Most I ever did was fish and swim. Head high, he act like he egging me. I began to bait my hook and go down to the bank where he was. I was mad enough to pop him side the head, but I should have been glad.

12:23 I just wanted him to own up to the truth. I walked along the bank. That damn river was rising. I was lapping up over the planks of the landing and climbing up the bank. Then the funniest thing happened. Had I, he stopped moving and shoving on those planks and looks up at me. His pole is laying back under a willow tree like he wasn't going to fish none.

12:49 A lot of birds were still flying over and I saw a bunch of wild hogs roving along the levee. All of a sudden, Hedai, he say, ain't mean no harm. What I said about you working with the devil, I take it back. It almost knocked me over. Me and Hedai was arguing a while back about how many niggas there is in the Bible. Hedai, he know all about it, but I ain't give on to what I know. I look sideways at him. I figured he was trying to make up for following me. But there was something funny going on, so I held my peace. I said, uh-huh, and just kept looking at him. Then he points out over the water and up in the sky, waving his hand all around like he was twirling a lasso. You see them signs? I couldn't help but say, yeah, the

13:47 ark is coming. What ark? You'll see. Noah's Ark? Just wait. You'll see. And then he went back to fixing up that landing. I come to see what he was doing pretty soon. And I had a notion to go down and pitch in. But I know it had I. Sometimes he gets a notion in his big head and he act crazy behind it. Like the time in church when he told Reverend Jenkins that he heard people moaning out on the river. I remember that. Cause Papa went with the men. Had I His old man was with them out in that boat. They thought it was somebody took sick and couldn't row ashore. But Hedi, he kept telling them it was a lot of people, like a multitude. Anyway, they ain't find nothing. And Hedi, his daddy hauled off and smacked him side to head. I felt sorry for

14:45 him and didn't laugh as much as the other kids did. But sometimes Hedi's notions get me mad too. Then I come to see that maybe he wasn't following me. The way he was acting, I know he wasn't scared to be there at Dead Man's Landing. I threw out my line and made like I was fishing, but I wasn't, because I was steady watching head-eye.

15:12 And now there's some ads, but you can skip them if you want. And we're back.

15:35 By and by, the clouds started to get thick as clabber milk. A wind come up. And even though the little waves slapping the sides of the bank made the water jump around and dance, I could still tell that the river was rising. I looked at Hedi. He was wandering off along the bank, wading out into the shallows, and leaning over like he was looking for something. I comes to think about what he said, that valley of bones.

16:07 I comes to get some kind of crazy notion myself. There was a lot of signs, but they weren't nothing too special. If you're sharp-eyed, you're always seeing something along the Mississippi. I messed around and caught a couple of fish. Head-eye, he was wading out deeper in the sippy, About hip deep now, standing like he was listening for something. I left my pole under a big rock to hold it down and went over to where he was. This ain't the place, I say to him. Head high, he ain't say nothing. I could hear the water come to talk a little. Only river people know how to talk to the river when it's mad. I watched the light on the waves way upstream where the old sippy bend and I could tell she was moving faster, rising. The shaking

16:59 was fast, and the wind had picked up. It was whipping up the cane break and twirling the willows and the swamp oak that drank themselves full along the bank. I said it again, thinking maybe Hedda would ask me where was the real place, but he didn't even listen. You come out here to fish or food? I asked him.

17:24 but he waved his hand back at me to be quiet. I knew then that Hedda had some crazy notion in his big head, and that was it. He'd be talking about it for the next two weeks. Hey, I hollered at him. I had. Can't you see the river's on the rise? Let's shag out of here. He ain't pay me no mind. I picked up a couple of sticks and chunked them out near the place where he was standing and just to make sure he ain't fall asleep right out there in the water. I ain't never know Hedda to fall asleep at a place, but being as he's so damn crazy, I couldn't take the chance. By just about that time, I hear a funny noise. Hedda, he hear it too, cause he motioned to me to be still. He waded back to the bank and ran

18:14 down to the broken down planks at Dead Man's Landing. I followed him. A couple of drops of rain smacked me in the face, and the wind, she was whipping up a sermon. I heard a kind of moaning, like a lot of people. I figured it must be the wind. Head high, he is jumping around like a perch with a hook in the gill. Then he find himself. He come to just stand alongside the planks. He is in the water about knee deep. The sound is steady, not getting any louder now and not getting any lower. The wind, she's steady whipping up a sermon. By this time, it's done got kind of dark and me, well, I done got kind of scared. Head-eye, he all right, though. Pretty soon he called me. Fish hound. Yeah? You better come

19:07 down here. What for? Man, can't you see it's getting ready to rise? He ain't say nothing. I can't say too much now because the clouds done swole up so big and mighty that everything's getting dark. Then I seize it. I'm getting ready to chunk another stick out at him when I see this big thing moving in the far off, moving slow. Down river. No, it was up river. No, it was just moving and standing still at the same time.

19:43 The Damnedest thing I ever seen. It just about a damn boat. The biggest boat in the whole world. I looked up and what I took for clouds was sails. The wind was whipping up a sermon on them. It was way out in the river. Almost not touching the water. Just rocking there. Rocking and waiting. Head eye, I don't see him. Then I look and I see a rowboat coming.

20:16 Head eye, he done waded out about shoulder deep and he's waving to me. I ain't know what to do. I guess he bout to know that I was getting ready to run because he hollered out, come on fish, hurry, I wait for you. I figured maybe he was dead or something and was gonna get the glory boat over the river and make it But I ain't say it out loud. I was so scared, I didn't know what I was doing. First thing I know, I was side by side with Head Eye. And a funny-looking rowboat was drawing alongside of us. Two men, about black as anybody black wants to be, were steady stroking with paddles. The rain had reached us, and I could hear that moaning, like a church full of people pouring out their hearts for us. To Jesus in heaven. All the time, I

21:12 was trying not to let on how scared I was. Hedi, he ain't paying no mind to nothing except that boat. Pretty soon, it comes to rain hard. The two black jokers rowing the boat ain't say nothing to us. And every time I look at Hedi, he popping his eyes out, trying to get a look at something far off. I couldn't see that far, so I had to look at what was close up. The muscles in them jokers' arms was moving back and forth every time they swung them oars around. It was a funny ride in that rowboat because it didn't seem like we was in the water much.

21:50 I took a chance and stuck my hand over the seat. And when I did, they stopped rowing the boat. And when I looked up, we was drawing alongside this here ark. And I tell you, it was the biggest ark in the world. I asked Hedi if it was Noah's ark, and he tell me he didn't know either. Then I was scared. They was tying that rowboat to the side where there was some heavy ropes hung over. A long row of steps were cut into the side where we got out, and the moaning sound was real loud now.

22:28 And if it wasn't for the wind and rain beating and whipping us up the steps, I swear the sound was coming from someplace else. inside the ark. When head-eye got to the top of the steps, I was still making my way up. The two jokers were gone. On each step was a number, and I couldn't help looking at them numbers. I don't know what number was on the first step, but by the time I took notice, I was on 1608. And they went on like that, right on up to a number that made me pay attention. 1944.

23:06 That was when I was born. When I got up to head high, he was standing on a number, 1977. And so I ain't pay the number anymore mine. If that ark was Noah's, then he left all the animals on shore because I ain't see none. I kept looking around. All I could see was doors and cabins. While we was standing there, taking in things, half scared to death, an old man come walking toward us. He's dressed in skins, and his hair is gray and very woolly. I figured he ain't never had a haircut in all his life.

23:46 But I didn't say nothing. He walks over to Head Eye, and that poor boy's eyes about to pop out. Well, I'm standing there, and this old man is talking to Head Eye. With the wind blowing and moaning, I couldn't make out what they were saying. I got the feeling he didn't want me to hear either because he was leaning in on head eye. If that old fella was Noah, then he wasn't like the Noah I'd seen in my Sunday school picture cards. No, sir. This old man was wearing skins and sandals and he was black as head eye in me. And he had thick features like us too.

24:23 On them pictures, Noah was always white with a long beard hanging off his belly. I looked around to see some more people. Maybe Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Or wives and the rest who was supposed to be on the ark. But I ain't see nobody. Nothing but all them doors and cabins. The ark is steady rocking like it's floating on air. Pretty soon, Hedai come over to me. The old man was going through one of the cabin doors.

24:54 Before he closed the door, he turns around and points at me and Hedai. Hedai, he don't see this, but I do. talking about scared i almost ran and jumped off that boat if it had been a regular boat like something i could stomp my feet on then i guess i would have done it but i held still fishhound you ready had i say to me yeah i'm ready to get ashore i meant it too come on you got this far you scared yeah i'm scared what kind of boat is this The ark. I told you once.

25:34 I could tell now that the roaring was not all the wind and voices. Some of it was engines. I could hear that chug, chug, like a paddle wheel whipping up the stern. When we getting off here? You think I'm crazy like you, I asked him. I was mad. You know what that old man did behind your back? Fish hound. This a soul boat. I figured by now I best play along with Head Eye. He got a notion going, and there ain't nothing mess his head up more than a notion. I stopped trying to fake him out.

26:13 I figured then maybe we was both crazy. I ain't feel crazy, but I damn sure couldn't make heads or tails of the situation, so I let it ride. When you hook a fish, the best thing to do is just let him get a good hold, let him swallow it. Especially a catfish. You don't go jerking him up soon as you get a nibble. With a catfish, you let him go. I figured I'd better let things go. Pretty soon, I'd catch up with something. And I did. Well, me and Head Eye were kind of arguing. Not loud, since you had to keep your voice down on a place like that Ark out of respect. It was like that.

26:55 Head Eye, he tells me that when the cabin doors opened, we were supposed to go downstairs. He said anybody on this boat could consider himself called. Called to do what? I asked him. I had to ask him, because the only calling I knew about was when somebody hollered at you or when the Lord called somebody to preach. I figured it out. Maybe the Lord had called him, but I knew dog well he wasn't calling me. I hardly ever went to church, and when I did go, it was only to play with the gals. I knowed I wasn't fit to whip up no flock of people with holiness.

27:33 So when I asked him, call for what? I ain't have in my mind nothing I could be called for. You'll see, he said. And the next thing I know, we was going down steps into the belly of the ark. The moaning jumped up into my ears loud, and I could smell something funny like the burning of sweet wood, the churning of a paddle wheel, Was it the products and services that support this show? Probably not, but here they are. And we're back. Bones. I saw bones. They were stacked all the way to the top of the ship.

28:40 I looked around. The underside of the whole ark was nothing but a great bone house. I looked and saw crews of black men handling in them bones.

28:52 Bones.

28:53 There was a crew of two or three under every cabin around that ark. Why, there must have been a million cabins. They was doing it very carefully, like they was holding on to babies or something precious. Standing like a captain was the old man we had seen top deck. He was holding a long piece of leather up to a fire that was burning near the edge of an opening, which showed outward to the water. He was reading that piece of leather. On the other side of the ark, just at the edge of the ark, a crew of men was winding up a rope. They were chanting every time they pulled. I couldn't understand what they were saying.

29:36 It was foreign talk, and I never learned any conversation. of foreign talk. In front of us was a fence so as to keep anybody coming down the steps from barging right in, and we just stood there. The old man knew we was there, but he was busy reading. Then he rolls up his long scroll and and starts to walk in a crooked path toward the bones laid out in the floor. It was like he was walking frontwards, backwards, sideways, and every which way. He was being careful not to step on them bones. Had I, he looked like he knew what was going on, but when I see all this, I just about pop my eyes out. Just about the time I figure out and put things together, something happens.

30:29 I about come to figure them bones were the bones of dead animals, and the men wearing skin clothes, well, they was the skins of them animals. But just about the time I think I got it figured out, one of the men hauling that rope up from the water starts to holler. They all stop and let him moan on and on. I could make out a bit of what he was saying, but like I said, I never was good at foreign talk. Abba, Abba, Alhamdulillah, Abba, Abba, M'tu, brother, Abba, Abba, Alhamdulillah, Abba, Abba, brother, brother.

31:18 Then he stopped. The others began to chant in the back of him real low, and the old man, he stopped where he was, unrolled that scroll, and read it. And then he holler out, 1923. Then he close up the scroll and continue his coming toward me and Hedi. On his way, he had to stop and do the same thing about four times. All along the side of the ark, them great black men were hauling up bones from that river. It was the craziest thing I ever saw.

31:55 I know then it wasn't no animal bones. I took a look at them and they was all laid out in different ways, all making some kind of body. And there was big bones and little bones, parts of bones, chips, tidbits, skulls, fingers and everything. I shut my mouth then. I knowed I was on something. I fished something out. I comes to think about a sermon I heard. about Ezekiel in the Valley of Dry Bones. The old man was looking at me now. He looked like he was sizing me up.

32:36 Then he reached out and opened the fence. Head-eye, he walks through and the old man closes it. I keep still. You best to let things run their course in a situation like this. Son, you are in the house of generation. Every African who lives in America has a part of his soul in this ark. God has called you and I shall anoint you. He raised the scroll over Hedai's head and began to squeeze like he was trying to draw the wetness out. He closed his eyes and talked very low. Do you have your shield? Hedai, he bring out this funny cloth I see him with and puts it over his head and it flops all the way over his shoulders like a hood. Repeat after me, he said.

33:28 I figured that old man must be some kind of minister because he was ordaining Hedai right there before my eyes. Everything he say, Hedai, he's saying it behind him. Abba, I consecrate my bones. Take my soul up and plant it again. Your will shall be my hand. When I strike, you strike. My eyes shall see only thee. I shall set my brother free. Abba, this bone is thy seal.

34:06 I'm steady watchin'. The priest is holding a scroll over his head and I see some oil falling from it. It's black oil and it soaks into Hedai's shield and the shield turns dark green. Hedai ain't moving. Then the priest pulls it off. Do you have your witness? Hedai, he trembling. Yes, my brother fishhound. The priest points at me then like he did before. With the eyes of your brother Fish Hound, so be it. He was asking me.

34:43 I nodded my head. Then he turns and walks away just like he come. Head I, he go over to one of the fires, walking through them bones like he been doing it all his life. And he holds the shield in it till it catch fire. It don't burn with a flame, but with a smoke. He puts it down on a place which looks like an altar or something, and he sits in front of the smoke cross-legged, and I can hear him moaning. When the shield is all burnt up, Head Eye takes out that little piece of mojo bone and rakes the ashes inside. Then he zig walks over to me, opens up that fence, and goes up the steps. I have to follow, and he ain't say nothing to me. He ain't have to then. It was several days later that I see him again. We

35:41 got back that night late and everybody wanted to know where we was. People from town said the white folks had lynched the nigga and threw him in the river. I wasn't doing no talking until I see head eye. That's why he picked me for his witness. I keep my word. Then that evening, Whilst I'm in the house with my ragged sisters and brothers and my old papa, here come Hedi. He had a funny look in his eye.

36:09 I know some notion was whipping his head. He must have been running. He was out of breath. Fishhound, bruh, you know what? Yeah, I said, Hedi. He know he could count on me to do my part, so I ain't mind showing him that I like to keep my feet on the ground. You can never tell what you get yourself into by messing with mojo bones. I'm leaving.

36:36 Had I, he come up and stand on the porch. He got a no count rabbit dog named Hey Boy. And when had I come up on the porch, Hey Boy, he jump up and come sniffing at me. Get, I say to Hey Boy, and he jump away like somebody kick him. We hadn't seen that dog in about a week. No telling what kind of devilment he been into. Head-eye, he ain't say nothing. The dog, he stand on the edge of the porch with his two front feet looking at head-eye like he was going to get a piece of bread chunked out at him. I watch all this and see who been taking care of that no-count dog.

37:15 A dog ain't worth a mouth of bad wine if he can't hunt, I tell head-eye, but he is stepping off the porch. Bro, I come to tell you I'm leaving. We all be leaving if the sippy keep rising, I say. No, he say. Then he walk off. I come down off that porch. Man, you need another witness? I had to say something. Head-eye, he droop when he walk. He turned around, but he ain't drooping. I'm going, but someday I'll be back.

37:49 You is my witness. We shook hands and head-eye, he was gone. Moving fast with that no-count dog running alongside him. He stopped once and waved. I got a notion when he did that, but I've been keeping it to myself. People have been asking me, where'd he go? But I only tell them a little something I learned in church.

38:11 And I tell them about Ezekiel in the Valley of the Dry Bones. Sometimes they say, boy, you going crazy? And then sometimes they say, boy, you going to be a preacher yet? Or then they look at me and nod their heads as if they knew what I was talking about. I never told them about the ark. and them bones. It would make no sense. They'd think me crazy. Then, for sure, probably say I was getting to be as crazy as Hedai. And then they'd turn around and ask me again, boy, where you say Hedai went?

38:46 That story is so good.

38:47 And I love how you read it.

38:49 Thank you. Thank Henry Dumas. Yes. Such a wonderful study in Southern dialects. Such a wonderful story about memory. It reminds me of people from my home state of Mississippi.

39:06 And I love the reserved narrator who is like, you know, says multiple times at the beginning, like, I don't say nothing unless I know what I'm going to be saying.

39:15 Right?

39:15 Like, you know? And then here at the end, the narrator is like, I think I know what happened in this story, but I'm not going to tell you.

39:24 Right?

39:26 This is one of my favorite stories we've ever had on this show. I'll just be like real. This is so my shit. I am so excited about this.

39:33 Yes. I mean, it's just the right amount of mystery. It's just the right amount of surrealism.

39:43 Yeah.

39:44 Dreamlike. You know, did that happen? Did it not happen?

39:50 But also so understandable too. Like Margaret was asking me earlier, is you actually like, should I pre-read this? Am I going to have a hard time knowing what's going on? Is it too psychedelic? It's like, like, I think that you'll get pretty clearly what happens in the story, but it'll leave you. There's no easy answers about what it all means. And I love, I love stories that can do that. And this story, Henry Dumas is so, so effective with it, with the words.

40:20 And I love the, like, at the beginning, showing the, like, everyday omens of, like, well, I saw a snake and then a fox and then a bunch of birds and then a cow and then my friend. And, like, all of it was kind of unnatural, even though it's a perfectly natural thing.

40:39 Right. In a rural place, of course you would see a snake.

40:42 Yeah.

40:42 But would you see it in that order? Yeah.

40:44 Right, exactly. And, like, that is so real, that feeling of, other worldliness that can be invoked by sort of normal things. And it's such a good opening to what is going to happen. But we're going to talk a whole bunch more about this story next week. Well, you and I, we're all going to talk about it in about five minutes, but everyone else is going to have to wait an entire week to hear us talk to you more about what the story means and about the author and all of that. But in the meantime, Do you have anything that you want to plug here at the end of this first episode?

41:20 In the meantime, in between time. Yes. So I would love for people to go to thecommunityarchive.org. Check out the Archive of Sound there. If you feel so moved, please donate. And follow me on Instagram. I am on Instagram at thecommunityarchive with underscores between the words. And you can go to The Dr. Treasure if you're interested in conjure and the southern practice of magic that we call hoodoo.

41:58 Hell yeah. And I'm Margaret Kiljoy. You can find me in the same place as I always plug. And we'll see you all next week. Thanks for listening.