Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff

Part Two: Big Annie Clemenc and the Copper Strike of 1913

Mittwoch, 19. August 2026 · 36 min

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Cool Zone Media. Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff, the podcast that asks the question what cool people in history did cool stuff. It's probably the only pop history podcast to ever exist. I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy, and this week and next week we are talking about the great the tragic copper strike of nineteen thirteen in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. And where I last left off, I left you with a terrifying cliffhanger.

I said there was a worker's cooperative, it was a store, and I didn't tell you everything about it. I know I would have been champing at the bit speaking of old fashioned verbs that people don't use anymore. There's not a lot of things that people champ at. I think it's just bits. We should champ at other kinds of bits.

I don't know where I'm going with this. This is the problem about not having a guest. Especially what happens is if you want to know how I write my shows, you know that meme that's like the creative process, and it says all the work while crying right squeezed in at the very end. I don't quite do that. It's not squeezed in right at the very end, but it's still very all the work while crying. I didn't sleep a lot last night because I discovered more about this topic and wanted to make sure it got it right.

And then I woke up early, and then I kept writing, and now I haven't slept, and here I am recording into a microphone with no guests to keep me honest. In eighteen ninety people set up the Tamarack Cooperative store in Calumut, Michigan. By the time that they built their flagship store in nineteen oh seven, it was, to quote author Morgan Davis quote, the largest retail outlet north of Milwaukee.

I believe Morgan Davis is quoting like a popular phrase at the time, a popular way of describing it at the time. It was forty thousand square feet of cooperatively owned store. I don't believe it was a worker cooperative. I believe it was a consumer cooperative, which or like a little less radical, but are still kind of interesting.

A worker cooperative is where the workers are the owners of the store, and so there's an inherent workplace democracy. Why do we accept that we go into work to like mini fiefdoms, Like why do we accept feudalism in our daily life when we can have workplace democracy instead. I don't know the answer to that. Well, actually, this whole episode is kind of about the answer to that.

So worker cooperatives help fight that. Consumer cooperatives are much more common among food stores, and that is they are owned by the customers and this brings prices down. It's basically it's like a starts as a buying club. You and your five friends. Is a very common experience. I'm sure you've had this. You're all sitting around and you're like, man, we sure eat a lot of quen wa. If only we ordered the Queen Won bulk. I it's so much more affordable. I know, let's all get together and buy the Kinwan bulk and make a deal with you know, a food distributor and get the keen wak cost and sell it to ourselves at cost plus a little bit of overhead it takes to keep the cooperative going. That's what a consumer cooperative is, and they are cool too.

This store, the Tamarat Cooperative, was the main general store I believe for the one hundred thousand people in the region. But I've also read there's like another cooperative that get set up. And there's other stores too, And I actually don't believe it was for the entire region, the only general store, but it was maybe the biggest deal one.

And you can get your groceries there, you can get your furniture there, you can get everything in between. And even though it's not the only game in town, it's probably bad if it's the only game in town, right, Monopolies aren't really good even in a socialist economy. The fact that this is the biggest deal in town. They kind of set the prices, they make life affordable for the workers. They say, no, this is kind of how much keen walk costs. They're not eating keenwa but it's what he uses my example earlier. This is how much keen wak costs. So other places that charge a lot more, it's not going to work, you know. And workers were offered credit as well, and this is where it gets kind of sketchy to me. And they were given free

rides the store on payday, like in the day when everyone get paid. They like show up and they're like, ah, you want to ride to the store to pay off your debt, because you know, they would basically work day loan, and I've yet to run across something that doesn't pay day loans that isn't at least a little sketchy. Teamsters ran deliveries out to about three miles around the store because Teamster's just basically meant delivery drivers. I think it comes from running teams of horses. And the slogan of the store was the store of the people, by the people, and for the people. If you can't come to the store, will bring the store to you, kind of like as I mentioned last time, the People's Amazon, a central cooperative

owned store that delivered. Honestly, sounds kind of amazing. And it's important and interesting that the key one Up Peninsula that the mining area the Copper Minds weren't places full of company stores, which are what's found throughout the rest of what I know about mining in the United States during most of this time. Considering that the barons controlled almost everything else about life in the area, this stands out to me. This is where I get a little confused about it. This is where I want more information than what I've currently been able to find, because it seems just like a good thing, and maybe it just was a good thing, but the cooperative was started by an English immigrant named Robert W. Bennett, who had done

similar things in the past, and like I mentioned, most of its initial backers were mining company managers. Of its initial board of directors, five were mine managers and four were mine workers. But soon they worked to diminish the power of the owning class. They set it up so that people voted only once, so you don't vote per share or whatever. Right, it is one person, one vote, and no one person could own more than twenty shares of the company. It also hired more women than men, which is interesting in a time when women's work was rather limited. And so, yeah, my instinct is that this is mostly a good thing. It's just strange the mine operator supported am I just being so oppositional that they

actually like did a good thing. And I'm like that's bad somehow or was it kind of their way of they couldn't get away with a company store, so they created this thing. I don't know, I straight up don't know. It wasn't the only co op in town. The Croatian Cooperative Store was opened to nineteen oh seven as well, when it ran until nineteen twelve, and their newspaper ads were like the biggest and best cooperative in town, which was like a distinct like they were in competition. And it seems possible that this was just the culture of how you had large stores at the time in place, and the barons didn't think they could shake that, and it sure beats a company's store. And so you kind of have this tension, this cultural tension between a leftist,

bottom up culture of workers and a top down fiefdom culture of the capitalists, the barons, much like we have a tension between our own leftist values and the top down directives of the companies we work for. Unrelatedly, here's ads that you can listen to or not. And we're back, and I've got one more piece of the puzzle to discuss before we get into the main event. We've got to talk about the union itself. We've got to talk about the Western Federation of Miners. These folks have woven their way in and out of a few stores already, and one day I'm going to probably cover them more at length, because there's so much I want to know more about the mine wars and all of this stuff that happened a little bit further out west. They are

a cornerstone of the American labor movement, and they're also one of the most like whitewashed groups in history. Okay, the Western Federation of Miners started off in eighteen ninety three, and they came out strong and spicy. They were openly advocating for workplace sabotage. Despite how labor history is whitewashed by both centrists and progressives, the Western Federation of Miners locals would be like, you'd have someone on your team who's like the bomb maker. Right, You're like, ah, we need the Who's taken notes? Okay, Joe's taking notes? Like, all right, who's keeping stack? All right, you know, Frederick's taking stack? Oh, Annie, you're gonna be the bomb maker again.

All right, Annie, you're the bomb maker. I don't think it worked exactly like that. And part of it is that, like literally they're all mine workers, right, so they all have access to and knowledge about explosives anyway, But yeah, they have bomb makers for blowing up bosses, houses and shit railway tracks whatever. Very rarely people, but they absolutely did a lot of sabotage in the turn of the twentieth century. The American labor movement has always had teeth and we shouldn't be ashamed of that fact. That doesn't mean it's the right way to handle any given situation, but it's where unions come from, and for good reason.

Union workers were getting shot. They responded with guns and dynamite of their own. We're going to talk more about how that plays out in Michigan because again, not making blanket condemnation or advocacy. Just reading new history. I'm not going to pretend to be neutral about any of this, but it's just important understand history. So the Western Federation of Miners, which is, since it's the WFM, I keep wanting to say Worker Federation of Miners, but that's just not the case, so that would be kind of repetitive anyway, the Western Federation of Mine by the first years of the nineteen hundreds, they're openly a socialist organization that demands the end of wage labor. That's not what they're fighting

for in any given strike. They're fighting for better wages or whatever, but they have their eyes on the prize wage labor. Bad fucking idea. Because by the dawn of the twentieth century, American labor was starting to get its act together. It started talking about industrial unionism instead of trade unionism, in which entire industries would be united into one union. Instead of the deep miners getting a one union and the people who push the trams trammers having another union, and then the people who do the other thing having a third union, you just give all of the miners one big union. The entire industry gets one big union, so that they're not divided. Because sometimes what's good for the brakemen on a rail yard isn't good

for the conductors, and vice versa. They have peding interests when they're not actually bargaining as collectively as they could. Industrial unionism is just kind of obviously correct, strategically and probably morally similarly, in an always correct point of view. Anti racism had finally hit the mainstream of American labor in the nineteenth century. As we talked about in the very first episode of this show, most unions were racist, just structurally racist, right, And some unions especially or some movements, especially the anarchists of the eighteen seventies, were like, that's a terrible idea, and eventually they're not the only people saying it. By the turn of the twentieth century, other

people are starting to be like, hey, isn't it obvious that the ruling class uses race to divide the working class? Shouldn't we not let them do that? And so all of these good ideas came together to create a revolutionary syndicalist union friend of the POD and one of the unions I'm a member of today, the Industrial Workers of the World in nineteen oh five. This was a revolutionary union, both in that its ideas were revolutionary because well, it changed fundamentally the way that people talked about unions in terms of especially anti racism and industrial unionism, but also as revolutionary and that they wanted to have a revolution and wage labor entirely and have a socialist society, not necessarily in probably at the beginning specifically not a top

down socialist society like the what happened in the twentieth century across so much of the world, but they wanted a socialist society. This was the brainchild of all sorts of leftists, of all sorts of stripes coming together in a rare moment of solidarity. It didn't last. The IWW is still around, but it being a coalition of basically like every half decent union that part didn't last. The Western Federation of Miners they were one of the founders of the IWW in nineteen oh five, but in nineteen oh seven the IWW had its first split, which is the famous problem with leptists. Basically, you had the reformists and the revolutionaries, and the reformists where I believe the minority and so they didn't get to keep the name.

That's usually how it goes, right, if there's a split, the minority group is the one that has to believe. So the reformist faction split off of the IWW, and that included the Western Federation of Miners, though notably many of its main leaders, like Big Bill Haywood, who is just kind of future friend of the PODJS and name worth knowing, he stayed with the IWW right even though his union was more reformist than he was. So he's like, I'm sticking with the rebels. And so the Western Federation of Miners became more moderate, and by nineteen eleven they rejoined the much more moderate American Federation of Labor. They were still socialists and they still believed in industrial unionism, I believed to some degree. They still defended sabotage, but

that was actually one of the main issues that caused that split. They're not moderate by today's standards, not at all. The president of the union at the time of the strike we're going to talk about was a socialist named Charles Moyer, who had an arrest record to prove his commitment to the cause. And they stayed interesting. I'm not trying to be like one side or this is good.

I obviously have my biases. You've probably picked up on them, but it's not like one side as all of the correct positions on the other side, as all the incorrect positions. The Western Federation of Minors, they stayed kind of interesting. They diminished greatly in the nineteen tens after a lot of failed strikes and including the one that we're going to talk about today or this week and next week, and then they went on to found the Congress of Industrial Organizations, the CIO of the modern AFL CIO. But then they wind up kicked out of their own group in nineteen fifty because they wouldn't denounce their communist leadership, because this is the height of the second Red scale, and they're like, no, our leaders are communists. That's like

kind of the history of unionism and socialism of various types. We're not going to denounce that. So they got kicked out. So they're like the spicy but not spiciest union that is doing a fuck ton of work helping organize miners, and there are these miners in need, and the key one up peninsula. So to the miners they went. I wonder whether the reason they use keen was in examples it sounds like key went on and it's just and I don't know, I hope not. That might be what's happening.

They showed up and started organizing in Copper Country in nineteen oh eight. By nineteen thirteen they had the majority of workers, nine thousand of them registered in the union. And this means something. They got the majority of the workers in this place where if the company didn't like to look at you, they'd fire you and you'd be homeless.

You know, like it's not nothing that nine thousand people were like, yeah, fuck it, I'll give it a shot. The conditions were rough, and as best as I can tell, most of the workers came from a European leftist tradition, so I guess it wasn't that hard to get people on board, and one of the major issues had to do with the new one man drills in use. This is an issue that is important for us to think about today. We're in ludite summer. Everyone knows that. Right now.

Everyone's out the stroying flow cameras like it's the new best sport. I'm not telling you to do anything. You do whatever you want in your life. I'm not doing it, so I really can't advocate that other people do it. We're in ludite summer. The Ludites, we've done some episodes about them. They're famous for being anti technology, but they weren't.

The word ludite gets used as a shorthand for being anti technology, but it doesn't mean that not Originally, the Ludites were anti the automation of the textile production because it fundamentally made their lives worse. Textiles have been produced in home workshops by skilled laborers, literal cottage industry, but then it became a factory job with all the attendant horrors of that, so they revolted. They were like, we used to sit around with our buds and do this fucking awesome skilled labor that we were to be really good at and now I'm just a cog and a machine at a factory. Only I'm more replaceable than cogs because I'm just a person. And so they didn't like that.

So they had a revolt and people complaining about the one man drill was kind of similar. The mines in the area originally used three man teams, usually family units, who operated drills. You go down with your brothers and your dad or whatever, and one man would hold the giant drill while the other two folks would hit it with sledgehammers to give it its spin and drive it into the hard rock. Sounds like hard fucking work, right, something that makes it a little bit easier. I see why people are excited about that, right, except it doesn't make their life better. Compressed air in the pneumatic drill changed everything. If you read about this invention online today, people say like, Wow, it's so much safer and better.

But the thing is, it wasn't safer, not because of the technology, but because of how it was implemented, because who implemented it. I went down into one of the tourist mines in Copper Country and saw some of the old drills. Both the hit them with a sledgehammer and the pneumatic ones, and the tourist Museum worked really hard to present how modern and good the mine had been, how all the latest gizmos had made the mind a better place to work, and they hadn't. Pneumatic drills were a major part of the complaints levied by the workers.

It's not because the workers were idiots, and they didn't just hate technology. When the first pneumatic drills came onto the scene, first it was okay, they required two people to work them, that's not so bad. Often the same three person family teams would operate them, and maybe that really did just make your work day easier. Three people to do the work of two people, you know. But soon enough one operator drills were brought in and work went from something you did deep underground with your family and co workers to something you did alone. And when I say deep, I mean seriously deep. Some of these minds had ninety levels, each one hundred feet deeper than the one above it, nine thousand foot deep minds. I

genuinely can't fathom that. That is unfathomable. And a fathom is a measurement of depth as well as a way of describing thought. It's so deep, and so you're going down in there, and now you're going down alone. Not only is this lonelier, not only is this just a worse way to work. You can't put on a podcast.

I mean, if you're operating in a one person drill while listening to this and you good on you, but you can't put on a podcast back then. Usually the way that people would kind of keep themselves going is that they would sing work songs together. A lot of workplaces, I don't think the minds did, but a lot of workplaces people would literally read newspapers and stuff to people while they worked. You know, it's substantially more dangerous when three workers are working on a project deep underground and something goes wrong and someone gets injured, as again happened to one in three workers in any given year. You have two friends there to help you. I know, I'd rather break my leg nine thousand feet underground with my

dad and my brother there. I don't know about you. Anti union propaganda will always complain about how unions assign too many people at any given job, how it's inefficient, But this is why they do that. It's not because union workers are lazy. Blue collar workers are the hardest working motherfuckers you will ever meet on this planet. I can't believe anyone who has ever met electrician is like, oh yeah, lazy workers, am I right? Or an agricultural worker.

No one who's actually met those people thinks that they sign multiple workers because it's safer and it's a nicer way to live. Because we sell a huge chunk of our time for money and do that in a way that makes a small section of people rich. And if we're going to do that, it should be sufferable. We should be able to deal with it. But do you know what is also sufferable? Do you know what I think you'll get through these ads? And if they're not, well, that's what the forward fifteen seconds button is for, and honestly, that's what the bumper music is for. Hand we're back.

But the union didn't go to the owners and say give us good money, shorter hours, less child labor, and three man teams they want. I wanted to ask for those things. That absolutely would have gotten to those things, and frankly a lot of them were like, actually, we shouldn't have wage labor. We should all collectively own this operation.

But their initial demand, the one that the bosses refused to meet, was just we want you to recognize our union and the right of workers to collectively bargain to determine what the fair workplace condition and wages are together like us as workers and you as the bosses, we want to sit down at a table and hash it out like fucking adults. Their literal initial request was simply talk to us, and for that they got shot seriously.

In nineteen thirteen, representing a strong majority of the miners, the Western Federation of Miners went to the copper barons and said, let's negotiate. The copper barons didn't even answer their letters. They didn't even say no, They just ignored the union. So with a vote of ninety eight percent of the union workers, they agreed that they would go on strike if the union wasn't recognized, which of course it wasn't, and more or less, every single not yet union miner went on strike with them, all fifteen thousand workers, starting on July twenty third, nineteen thirteen. Even though their housings on the line, even though the state is known for shooting workers, they went and did it. The strike

poster read strike stay away from the copper mines of Michigan. Fifteen thousand miners are striking for higher wages, shorter hours, and better working conditions. Don't be a scab. Wages are low, the labor required excessive hours long. No real man will come to the copper district until a settlement is made.

Men hired for Michigan points are hired to scab stay away by order of the Western Federation of Miners. So the strike starts. But maybe the most important leader the entire strike, the street fightiest, most arrested, always at front of every march, holding the giant flag. She wasn't allowed to vote on the strike at all because she wasn't one of the miners. She was the daughter of a miner and the husband of another miner. She and the thousands of women like her who joined the strike had to fight even against the union for recognition. And her name was Annie Clemens. It's spelled like maybe clemenc with a sea at the end, but it was often misspelled in various ways that made me believe it's pronounced clemens.

And so we're going to talk about her. I'm not even cutting off the episode. Well, you know that you can see how much the episode is left. This isn't even a cliffhanger. I'm going to tell you about her right now as soon as I'm done introducing her. This is a terrible bit. Anie Clemen was born on March second, eighteen eighty eight, in Calumet, Michigan. She was the first child of George and Mary, neither of whom were named George and Mary. That's the anglicization of their name, but that seemed to be what they went by, I guess, or what history seems to acknowledge, calling them two Catholic Slovenian immigrants who'd met and married in Michigan, having traveled to the States on the promise of making a living

in the mining towns. Now, it's true that it paid better to be a miner in Michigan than a peasant in Austrian controlled Slovenia, but what young immigrants didn't know was that the cost of living was so much higher in America too, So when young Annie was two years old, her parents moved with her back to rural Slovenia, which is part of the Austria Hungarian Empire at the time, so they would have been marked Austrian on any papers they had, but presumably the same economic pressures reared their heads again because in eighteen ninety five Dad moved back to Michigan to work, and Mary and the kids came two years later. In eighteen ninety seven, when Annie was nine, she moved back to the States into a Slovenian speaking

Catholic community in Calumet. She wound up the oldest of five. Her father was a trammer. He pushed a tram a cart full of ore. This was the lowliest job in mining. It was cheaper to higher immigrants than to pay for draft animals. So that's what the bosses did, and so that's the work that George did. As far as I can tell, twelve people lived in their house, five kids, two parents, and five boarders. She had other family in the area, but at least her uncle, Mike, who lived nearby, was killed in an industrial accident in nineteen oh two, killed by a train. Soon enough, Annie grows up and becomes Big Annie, a name she earned by growing to the height of six foot two, three inches taller than her father. She graduated from eighth grade at a school

run by the copper barons, then presumably started working full time helping her mother care for the boarders and the house. Then she married a piece of shit alcoholic wife beater named Joe Clemens when she was eighteen, a man who was in his mid thirties, and I suppose she didn't really have an easy life. Joe was a trammer too, and he soon moved into Annie's family's house. Or maybe he was one of the boarders. I don't know. I just know that they're living there together. He worked twelve hour shifts, six days a week, and he seemed to have two main hobbies. He sang in a choir and he went to bars to drink away the money that Annie carefully saved. The couple never had any kids. Most likely she ends up with a kid later. There's a

small chance, but the couple never had any kids. Annie, though she had other hobbies. She liked to organize. She worked with two groups that I know about. First, the Slovene National Benefit Society the SNPJ. I've talked about this a bit before on the show, but oddly mutual aid societies and insurance companies come from basically the same background before they forked into two very different directions. People across the world would basically pool their money to take care of one another. You pay your dues into a mutual aid society or a benefit society, and it will pay for your healthcare, it will pay for your burial, or pay out when you're too sick to work. The details about how this works very wildly. A really good movie

that I enjoyed, and if you like this show, you'll probably enjoy that kind of gets into an anarchist group in Switzerland and their fundraising. Is a movie called Unrest, and it's ostensibly about friend of the Pod Peter Kropotkin, showing up there as a geographer to draw a new map of the town, but it's a story about how he discovers the anarchists who are the watchmakers in that town, and how there's both anarchists working in the big factories and anarchists work cooperatives, and specifically it's like a movie about them like providing each other with healthcare and trying to raise money for labor movements all over the world while they're doing it, and how it's an entire society.

So it's actually one of the best films I've ever seen, period. But about this concept, this concept of a benefit society. Secret societies and fraternal organizations are not so different from these either. Neither are gangs, I suppose, or churches, and so these societies were also societies. They're cultural institutions that rivaled the power of the church. Annie joined a group called NADA, which meant hope, a group for Slovenian women, and soon enough NADA joined the SNPJ and helped gender integrate the group a bit, because before NADA it was a very very male dominated organization. So in nineteen ten she started a NADA group, the SNPG Lodge one twenty eight in Calumet, Michigan. Its nickname translated to the People's

Slovenian Women's Lodge, which gives you an idea of its political character. At twenty two years old, she was the lodge's first president and thus became the first elected women public leader in Calumet, Michigan. They even let Croatian women into this group because the Croatian women didn't have a lodge of their own. Her SMPJ Lodge became one of the most crucial centers of organizing for the nineteen thirteen strike.

They translated pro union texts into Slovenian they waived dues from striking workers, and they threatened to expel scabs, since being organized at all helps you organize politically. It was her SMPG lodge that later helped set up women's locals of the Western Federation of Miners and the local SMPG secretary, Kate Junco, tracked up at least three arrests during the nine months or so of the strike, just as one example, at least fifty five women and ended up facing charges as a result of the strike. But we'll get to that.

So that's one of the groups she organizes. She was also a member of the Yugoslav that is, South Slavic Socialist Federation, which was aligned with the Socialist Party. This is the more blatantly political group that she's part of. The Socialist Party of the time were democratic socialists, as you would understand it today. They actually had a decent amount of electoral success, especially in Milwaukee and New York City.

Milwaukee had four different Socialist mayors in the twentieth century. Later, the Yugoslav Socialist Federation is going to split from the Socialist Party over US participation in World War One. The Socialist Party was anti war, but the Slovenians wanted independence, and so they wanted the Austria Hungarian Empire to get wrecked.

So they wanted the US to show up and help that happen. But all that happens later. I just fell down a rabbit hole about this because I just read like, oh, they split over World War One, and I was like, I need to know both of their positions. Anyway, at the time of the strike, Big Annie has perfect oldest daughter energy. She is organizing tirelessly and without much recognition to help everyone get their needs met in her local community.

And when the strike hit her husband, who we know was in the union, and her father, who we believe was in the union. We're out on strike. Big Annie was out on strike too. Strikes don't look like what people assume they do, or at least they didn't a one hundred years ago. Strikes are not inherently peaceful affairs.

Every single right we have as workers we didn't earn just by sometimes we go on strike and refuse to work. Our rights were earned through violence. I don't even mean to advocate for violence. Nonviolence as a political strategy was a fantastically interesting and useful development of the twentieth century, but that was a later development. The concepts of violence versus non violence like mattered, but not in the same way that people talk about them today. And of course, even non violent movements like the Civil Rights movement were made possible by armed black farmers who defended the non violent activists who stayed with them. You can see our episodes about the armed, nonviolent Civil Rights Movement for more

about that. A strike only works if you stop scabs from working, if you stop non striking workers from simply being hired to take your job. A picket line that is only a suggestion is not an effective picket line historically speaking, again, we live in a different context these days, and I am not advocating any particular tactic. I'm trying to describe how we should understand the headspace of workers at the dawn of the labor movement. It's whitewashed out of history, but strikes involve largely non lethal violence on a regular basis. Picket lines will beat you up if you cross them. Scabs will get their shit wrecked. Most strikers hope that a strike is nonviolent because they hope scabs don't cross the line. So fifteen thousand workers went

on strike and they shut down every copper mine in the area. And how all of that is going to go for them, and how Big Annie is going to hit somebody with an umbrella, and how both sides are going to take some shots at each other. We're going to talk about next week. In the meantime, Don't cross picket lines. What were you thinking? Just don't do it.

I think that certain things in this world we just need to understand is not options, so that we don't even have to waste our time, like being like, well, I really need this job and this and that. Just imagine that there's a force field and it's just not passable. You just have to think of other options because crossing picket lines isn't one of your options, not if you want to stay in solidarity with the rest of the working class. And when I say working class, I'm a podcaster.

That's an odd thing for me to say, right, but I mean it. If you work for a living, you're working class. Some working class people are much better paid than other working class people, and that's not fair or just, but those divisions are sort of given to us in order to break class solidarity. And we are much stronger when we remember that some people are barons. We have billionaires and they live like feudal lords, and the rest of us, least on some level, have to work for a living, so you don't cross picket lines. See you next week. Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production cool Zone Media. For more podcasts you gool Zone Media, visit our website Goolezonemedia dot com, or check us out on the Iberd radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

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