From Boardrooms to Breakthroughs: Profit Strategies & Global Health Leadership w/ Jennifer Cain-Birkmose

0:00 Prayers for the memory of the dead God rest his soul. It's It's sad to see right prospects die young because of inadequate medical expertise or attention, but really it's. It's easy to say if you have not met a human being that has gone through that particular experience, but when you know a human being that's gone through that experience, it heats up on run for you. Back to what I've said from the beginning, your body of work, the work you know, you guys do in the health sector, you know public health, do not take it for granted. I appreciate it very, very, very much. First, they are leadership philosophies, right? And of course, you have that academic background, right? And definitely it has an impact

0:52 on your leadership role in industry. So yeah, how do you marry that which, which would I say strategies to your dot? Which philosophies to your dot? Yeah. So strategy, how do I use strategy in my job and how does that, how does academia inspire me? I think it's consistently having a culture of learning. And I will challenge you, my friend, to say that I think that, you know, we talked about is it strategy as a leader? Welcome to the Kingdom's podcast where growth mindset meets leadership and business insights. Get insights from top entrepreneurs, professionals and thought leaders.

1:31 Visit kingdomspodcast.com. Fuel your mind. Your next breakthrough starts here. We are live, ladies and gentlemen, you'll once again welcome to the King James broadcast and diary of a CFO. And today I've got we'll meet a very, very special guest fighting out of Brazil, Switzerland by way of the West Coast of the United States of America.

1:56 Big welcome. Jennifer Kane, Burt Moss. Thank you for the invitation. Thank you so much. It's wonderful to be here. Oh, wow. So I guess during the introduction you were thinking, am I now a fighter now? Yeah. Where do I fight out of what's What kind of fights do I do? Well, definitely everybody is a fighter in life.

2:21 If you've seen a very many past episodes of this podcast, I've had a lot of fighters. I've had boxing world champions. I've had enemy champions on the show. And you know, it's a bug with mindset, leadership and peace. Less insights. So you are passing that. There's multiple feathers on their heart.

2:44 And you are well deserving of an interesting intro. So sit back, relax while I give you flowers while you are alive. So today we have the privilege of welcoming an extraordinary leader who's carriers pants the boardrooms of some of the world's most influential health organizations to the vibrant stage of improv committee. Jennifer King Bergmers is a global health advocate, board member and Co founder of an innovative health tech startup with over 2 decades of experience transforming healthcare systems, advancing patient access, and shaping policy at the highest levels.

3:27 From the World Bank and HO to Johnson and Johnson Roche and the Gates Foundation's Medicines for Mandaria venture, Jennifer has built a legacy of impact driving change that touches millions of lives. She is also a gifted storyteller, a TEDx speaker, and a graduate of the Second City Conservatory, proving that leadership can be as creative as it is strategic. Get ready for an inspiring, insightful, and yes, fun conversation as we explore leadership, innovation, mindset, and the power of laughter in building a better world. Ladies and gentlemen, once again make welcome. Jennifer Kane Burke bows.

4:21 You're welcome. Amelia wanted to host a webinar, but the tool couldn't deliver. Zooming out, she turned to Webinar Key, an expert solution for webinars with seamless setup and intuitive design. She delivered the perfect webinar. Webinar Deep host webinars like a boss. Wonderful. Thank you so the for the beautiful, beautiful and warm introduction. Thank you so much.

4:44 Wow, you are welcome, and of course you are always welcome. I believe very much in speaking in the present tense instead of past tense. At ease. I believe very much in giving people their flowers while they are alive. I I'm not one to you only give you your flowers where you're gone because that's what most people do. They wait till you die until they say great things about you appreciate your body of work.

5:07 I'm not one of those people. You know, people tend to be quite, I don't know why as TNG with compliments and appreciation. And I don't think that is the right thing to do because good attitude, good behavior, good impact should actually be appreciated. And yeah, you're very much appreciated. So talking about how it all started, the origin before all of your career evolutions, because it seems like you've lived different lives. So I would say you are they leave an example of the proverbial cuts with night lives. But it's just that you you seem to have more than that night lives actually.

5:52 So you learn transformations at the World Bank, WHO, Johnson, Johnson, Boucher and now health tech. So looking back at the key moments, right, What key moments actually define your career path? So what key moments to find my career path would be moments where I could do two things consistently.

6:15 One would be to serve a mission, which is a mission to support people or patients truly find ways to have that big impact where I can help people truly. And on that mission, as I switch from different, maybe working for different companies or even different sectors, always holding that mission vision close to my heart, The other career transition for me would be or guiding light would be when could I learn something?

6:46 So I know that you're a passion. I know you're passionate about learning as well and cheering, right? You know what something I did not tell you is that you involved in that bill and then in the Gates Foundation work for Mandaria, right? I was actually involved in the global foreign brand for malaria as well, and I was back in Nigeria. What?

7:13 A small world that's so exciting. What a small world. That we share that fashion, that's fantastic. Yeah. So I've had about one time in, you know, the public health work, but what a lot of people know me for is my time with the week for accounting firms, you know, because that I've had the longest span of my career, like yeah, about eight years, right?

7:37 Yeah, with the public accounting sector. But before that there was public health and yeah, we did some work there and made some impacts. And, and that's one of the reasons why I'm not happy about the, the new policy of cutting of the USAIP grant, because that grant actually did a lot of, you know, it works for people, especially in yeah, vulnerable people in the less developed economies. So I come from Nigeria, I'm proud of my country. It's interesting.

8:08 And it's great to see the impact that your work has actually done for my people, right. It's it's all love and appreciation. So it's a small world. We know that we've at this point we've touched 500 million patients with our malaria medicines. Yeah. So it's it's. Aside from the medicines, the the Li and the lasting insecticides next that you guys are also distribute is very impactful. Yeah, medicine.

8:35 So it's all about, I mean, the the work of medicines for malaria venture, we discover, we research, we discover, we research, we develop and then we have commercial partnerships to make those products available and like treatment, chemo, prevention, environmental control. So exactly what you say, the bed Nets.

8:53 And we're constantly, constantly inspired by our researchers. And when I say our researchers, I mean the people that are inside the company, but also they, they work extensively, especially across the continent with different researchers to do open source discovery and also development together. So we're very passionate about making sure that the science is discovered on the continent, not only that the products go there to treat patients because they need them.

9:22 Of course, we also want the capability of the science to be there and also the manufacturing of the products to be there as well. So we do a lot of these kind of partnerships also now with the African Union and that, you know, African Medicines Agency as it as it starts to take form, do a lot of partnerships there. It's really important and what if, again, what a great small world that we've both been involved. Right, Yeah, what a small world.

9:48 But you know, something in addition I like, I like to touch on is the the programs of works that you you partner with a lot of when I say sub recipients of all your brands for that is the outreaches, the educational programs, the seminars and workshops, right? They go a long way to make impacts right people in educating them in order to lead a better lifestyle because a lot of times these health initiatives are not just a function of medicine, of distribution of drugs, but almost so lifestyle changes are required in order to lead a better life.

10:36 And you know, it speaks to a proverb that I would very, very much tell you to my heart of the Chinese proverb as he gives give a man a fish, he fed him for a day, but teach a man to fish, he fed him for a lifetime. So it's interesting how you guys give men fishes to eat for a day. And of course, you also teach them to fish in order to have them fed for a lifetime. Yeah, I mean too, you're right.

11:01 It's, it's not only about the pill, but it's about the system and it's about, you know, obviously treating patients who are sick. And also especially in West Africa, the work that we're doing around seasonal chemo prevention is saving lives for children who are 5 and under. And now we're even experimenting with children who are 10 and under. But we know that if we are are effectively dosing the the medicines that we distribute, if we dose them strategically in advance of the season of the rainy season, we're going to protect those kids.

11:35 And it is. So it's, it's a, it's a system, systemic environmental intervention that's saving kids lives. I think it's also really exciting to see the commitment of the organization, not just to children, which is important, it's also to women and to specifically pregnant women. And many companies that develop medicines don't like to treat. They don't like to include women in their clinical trials because, you know, the for fear of having a pregnancy. And what if the medicine could affect, yeah, could affect the unborn child.

12:08 We actually, because the risk of malaria is so much higher when a woman is pregnant, we've been developing medicines for women who are pregnant. Yeah, I love that. It means you're prioritizing vulnerability over sensitivity and that's that's the right way to go. 100% In fact, in June, we launched a new medicine that is for women who are under two months pregnant. So right when you're learning that you're pregnant and you discover you have malaria, you can be treated because that's part of the most critical phase of infant development is they're, you know, they're developing all their bones, essential organs.

12:44 And we know that if they, if those mothers are infected with malaria at those times, then they're really at risk of their baby that's being developed in Reutro. These new medicines are really about protecting the mom and protecting that unborn child as it's developing its mother's womb. You don't know how our pathways are interconnected until you just sit down and have interesting conversations like this.

13:10 And the other thing is we always estimate the power of one person's voice to have vision to set the momentum in place for change. So if that's set the momentum in place to create an agency like this that actually has this massive global commitment for babies, for children, for mothers, to prevent them from dying or getting sick from malaria. So the power of the individual to have vision, to gather excitement, enthusiasm and other people to put money behind those initiatives.

13:45 There's so much that can be done. Voice. Yeah, it's, it's very important to, you know, to, to, to have the concern and, OK, you know, it's crazy how much power, you know, an individual has to, to make an impact. And I also remember the teachers from Bible schools saying something and say, when God gives you a vision, he will make a provision.

14:10 So if you have that vision right, you should always go for it and trust. But to, to, to make the provision, you know, you just talked about how, the, how the power of an individual is amazing, coming up with a vision and, you know, showing up that enthusiasm, you know, creating teams, teamwork makes a dream work, But it's started with, you know, the vision of that one person.

14:35 But God had to make the provision of these other systems and people and, you know, places and, you know, methods to come up together to to make it happen. And you know, God, or for whomever is listening, you know, the God that unites us all is working through all of us in their way. So it's not only just the individual, but it's the inspiration that might even be channelled through that which is divine that makes us all.

15:06 So we are, you know, these energies and powers work through us in mysterious ways. What happen in in this world? Wow, so nice. Lead up to becoming a Co founder of Weaver Friendly. I think this, this desire, passion, vision for impacts in global health. I'm not exactly sure the origin story. It was always there. And some of it has to do with, I think that because I grew up in a family where almost everyone was involved in some form of either healthcare delivery or patient advocacy, health policy, patient advocacy, We were all involved or activism, really activism in the service of others, in the service of the system, the community, the patient themselves. And I think that from a very

16:07 young age, I was exposed to that and I was equally inspired and continue to drive that red thread through my own life. And so like I said, you know, you asked this beautiful question, which is, you know, what are the things that drove each of those career decisions that I had? And I think the ability to drive that impact and also the ability to learn. And I kept making those decisions. Yes, no, yes, no to each of those twists and turns of my own personal road and life journey.

16:35 And when I was given the opportunity to be a Co founder of this company, Viva Valet, which is a digital health company that serves older adults, for me, it was absolutely a no brainer. It was completely clear that I should do this. Perhaps I was a little afraid and which made me think even more, I should be doing this.

16:56 But it was so consistent with the mission of helping people who can't really help themselves or need a little additional support. And it was a chance for me to roll up all my experience, maybe my, you know, hard earned scars and my wisdom through the work and global health and find a way to apply those learnings into helping older adults who are living at home and wish to live at home independently.

17:23 And finding ways to continue to deliver services, both physical or digital, that can support them so that they can live at home independently, with dignity and with confidence. Well, I, I, I love that word dignity. Nobody in life deserves to lose their dignity regardless. Gallus Award is that they have done or hasn't done to them.

17:48 Nobody deserves to lose their dignity. But in a world of rigid healthcare systems and how do you balance policy expertise with innovation to drive that real change? Yeah, so I can even give an example of having worked in, you come originally from Nigeria. I've spent time in, I've spent time in Nigeria myself.

18:14 I was there and I was working with your Ministry of Health and your Ministry of Defense supporting them in actually looking at health system policy and helping them create plans to deliver what they wish to deliver. Let me explain. So he said, you're right because these things are a little complicated, but let's make them very clear. So when you say a healthcare system is complicated and there's a lot of things that you need to do that's inside the healthcare system and there's a lot of moving parts. If you know, you know.

18:47 What the outcome is. And so often what I do is especially like when I spoke with your, you know, deputy Minister of Health and I was working with other members of the Ministry of Defense who were trying to design the healthcare system for the, for the military. I really had them think about what is it ultimately that they want to achieve? Because often we think, how much should we spend? How many doctors do we need?

19:10 How many hospitals do we need? How many clinics do we need? How many, how many, how many, how many, how many, how many means, what are the inputs that we're going to put in? What's the investment we're going to make? Well, we need to make investment. But I think before you do that, you have to stop and say, where do we want to go? Where's the destination?

19:26 And that destination could be, I'm making it up, making it up. But it could be, for example, I want to reduce malaria by 50 percent. I want to reduce malaria deaths by 80% of my country. Therefore I want to reduce transmission by 50%. And I want you know that to therefore have a 70% chance of reduce the chance of five year olds and under dying from malaria, for example.

19:55 Or I wish to create a program for patients with chronic disease like diabetes to have an increase in testing, to have a reduction in in disease or have a reduction in amputations, which is often an unfortunate thing that is a part of a patient that's not managed well who has diabetes. So you look at ultimately what is the thing I want to achieve and then you start to pull it back so in order.

20:18 For that reality to be true, that outcome to be true, we have to start pulling it back. So that means that that patient needed to receive the right urgent care at the right time. They needed to receive the right treatment. The malaria patient needed the right treatment within that seven days of receiving their fever, right.

20:34 That means that we needed to get the diagnostic in place quickly. We needed to have a clinic that was near them or we need to have some way for them to have a diagnostic which even could be remote. So what then? We need to make sure that our patients understand these things. So we need to either help with literacy, help with education on the ground up, and we also need to make diagnostic health seeking behavior, educational information about how to seek and receive care in a way that's accessible for everyone, language, culture, appropriate, etcetera. We have to pull it all the way back and then we say, all right, what are those things going to cost? Then we can start investing in the cost to run that program for the diagnostics, the cost to run

21:17 the program for the physicians and the nurses and their and the Regional Health ministries and the remote distribution of bed Nets and the remote distribution of of treatments into these real clinics. So we pull it back that way. So you're right, there's a lot of moving parts. And I think always if we think about what's the end stop on our train, we're taking a train of for health, what's the last stop on that road we're going to. Then once we get there, we arrive there and we think where do we get?

21:48 How do, what do we have to do to get there first? Yeah, you remind me of the MDGs and the SDGS, you know. Exactly. Looking at a certain toll goals and starting with the end in mind, quickly, what's would I say? Medical goal maybe we could be the SDGS, it could be the MDGs or it could be some other like rightly Rice a normal global medical goals have you seen or worked on and you are impressed with the with the quality of work that was done to achieve that particular goal.

22:33 So that's actually not so long ago I I worked with rare diseases. And rare diseases are very special because very often it means that they're rare, which means you don't have so many of them in a population. As the name implies. As the name implies, there's not so many people who have that disease and so it's often very difficult to provide access and treatment in a comprehensive way for people who have that rare disease.

23:03 I was involved in being a leader in a international haemophilia consortium and we donated product into that consortium. We were able to disseminate, distribute and make accessible drugs to treat haemophilia. Again, that's like 95% of those patients are men and usually young men who are young boys, teenagers, early 20s. We were really working hard to make sure that those kids could survive into adulthood and that they could actually. Yeah.

23:40 So that was the program in like, what, 35 different countries? And I actually got to go and do work with the the International Hemophilia Federation in Kenya as well. So that was really inspiring because it doesn't matter if you're a rich person, if you're a poor person, if you're educated, if you're not. Hemophilia doesn't know.

24:03 Class or highly vulnerable like that's what's disturbing to me. Like if you get a cop like yes, it means your your life could end. Like how now I'm I'm curious like how do you support them? Like what is it that you do to help them is in lifestyle changes and you know what it it can happen. Yeah, so, so a person and man is generally it's a male disease. They're born without a clotting factor, a factor 8. So you asked me about hemophilia so and you were saying, you know, it's it's a disease where person is born without a clotting factor factor 8 that allows them to have a blood clot if they have a cut, like you said, or if they have even a bump or bruise.

24:50 So you're saying that someone could die because they might hemorrhage, they might eat out. That's very possible. The other thing that was really terrible special for these young boys is that their joints, you know, just because you're, you know, you're playing football, you're living an active life, you're a kid, you're playing, you may bump your elbow and your knee or your ankle. And that bump would with Someone Like You and me who have a adequate factor 8 will it'll clot internally and it's no big deal.

25:19 So maybe you get a bruise, but basically it's still healing those kids or those people. The blood will continue to fill into the joint and it could damage the joint. And so it could make moving very difficult and limit their ability to walk around. And So what I would visit with several of these kids in Kenya, many of them had had major attacks like this where their joints were having lots of pain and they had to walk with a, they had to be carried or they had to walk with a stick. And So what we were doing in our program is we were providing the medicines that helped them avoid having those major crises so and would help them survive into adulthood so they can have a healthy life.

26:04 And I think constantly what we see is that we have consistent evolution of innovation that brings new medicines to these patients that will help them live longer and live healthier and less painful. And so as as you, you know, help them survive into these older years already the technology jumps and jumps and jumps and is more heat stable and is more long acting and is really helping patients have a better life. So that we're very happy to have been a part of that in Africa. I guess for the first time on this broadcast, I've had to shed a tear because what are you talking about just reminded me of a traumatic experience.

26:51 I had a friend in secondary school, God rest his soul. His name is Uriyami Atali and very, very brilliant individual and I don't know if he probably was suffering from Timothy there, but last I heard of him worse, he want to play football, sustain an injury and. I'm so sorry that you lost him, especially at such a young age. So an early life lost.

27:21 And for you especially a friend who is clearly special for you that you lost so young. I'm so sorry that you experienced that and you lost him. Between the side and trust me, this, this person was brilliant, very, very right. It's crazy. People used to think myself and him would end up becoming sports journalists. Of course we we'd love football so much. We love to analyse sports.

27:50 I know. Can I call myself a journalist? Of course you have a podcast. You're officially a journalist, Yes. And then we can talk about sports, you and me, and then we'll talk. We'll officially, we'll both be sports journalists on your podcast today. OK, OK, yeah, let's bring the childhood dreams 3 But prayers for the memory of the dead.

28:10 God rest his soul. It's, it's sad to see right prospects die young because of inadequate medical expertise or attention. But really it's, it's easy to say if you have not met a human being that has gone through that particular experience, but when you know a human being that's gone through that experience, it hits a home run for you.

28:38 Back to what I've said from the beginning, your body of work, the work, you know, you guys do in the health sector, you know, public health, I do not take it for granted, you know, I appreciate it very, very, very much. And the, the work is actually a function of leadership strategy to achieve impact. So from the boardroom to the classroom at Intel, you've actually influenced that leaders worldwide. So what core leadership principles do you believe translates, you know, across the industries that you've worked with?

29:21 Let me make sure I understand your question correctly. What are the things I'm teaching at the university that I learned from? Yes, a mix of both, right? That is, we can add the leadership, right? But leadership comes with strategy, right? And of course, there are leadership philosophies, right?

29:42 And of course, you have that academic background, right? And definitely it has an impact on your leadership role in industry. So yeah, how do you marry that? And which are which would I say strategies to your adopt, which are philosophies to your adopt? Yeah. So strategy, how do I use strategy in my job and how does that, how does academia inspire me?

30:06 I think it's consistently having a culture of the learning and I will challenge you, my friend, to say that I think that, you know, we talk about is it strategy as a leader, are you, you know, do you own strategy? Yes. And even more even on top of strategy is a leader, you're owning culture. And so the culture, a culture, what we say eats strategy for breakfast, right?

30:33 So as a leader, you have you're in charge of. Yeah, it's true. So we. I'm going to compel my friends to watch to watch this episode, OK, because there is something I always say that is eat it something from. Breakfast culture is true for breakfast. And you know as a leader you bring the weather in every room you enter.

30:58 So does that mean are you, excuse me, you have a choice every day as a leader, you can arrive sunny, you can arrive cloudy, you can arrive rainstorm, you can arrive a snowstorm, you can arrive lightning. You know, you choose what's the weather that you're bringing. And that's another kind of metaphor for what's the culture that you're going to create. Very often culture you don't.

31:25 It's difficult to see and identify it because you're inside of it. So like a fish that's swimming inside of a fishbowl, does a fish know that it's swimming in water? Fish is probably unaware of the water it's swimming in. So it's like you and I were were immersed in our culture. And culture would be things like the collection of the ways of working, or the language that we use together, or the lexicon even that we use, or the rituals and habits that we have on a daily basis, or the symbols or symbols we use to identify who we are.

32:04 Your lingo, Your Dragons. Our values so those are all the collection of what makes up a culture and then that once you have that culture and you are operating inside your culture linked to your mission and vision of where you're going, what's your North star, what you want to accomplish, then you connect your strategy to achieving that.

32:24 And so I think as a leader, we're in charge of all of those things as founders, as C-Suite. And I think also truthfully, it's leadership in every moment because there are people who are appointed as a title leader. And I think actually leadership is something that's just that dispersed through everyone and that you have a moment to be a leader every single day, even if you don't have the title of leader.

32:52 So maybe the leader with capital L, who's got the name leader in their title, they're in charge of driving culture. They're in charge of driving a strategy which is towards that North star that they want to achieve. And everyone has a role to be a leader every given moment, to step up in the moment of requirement, to do the thing that is important and is to do the right thing.

33:15 I like that. You know, for, for me, I, I really don't like titles, right? Because, yeah, leadership for me is more about leading by example, collaborative leadership. What's important is not the example of your power, but the power of your example, right? To think about it, if your example is powerful, people always take your example so you don't have to boss people around. And that's why influence breeds impact, right? I would argue that if you have to boss people around, you actually don't have power.

33:53 Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, they are. Intimidating people and people in my my history, you know who you are. You know who you are, right? If you acted like that in a room in front of me or my colleagues or in front of hundreds of people, you actually didn't have power at all. You were afraid and you were acting out of fear. And those were behaviors that were from your own fear inside, sadly.

34:22 So I kind of want to, I kind of want to hold them and say you're OK, even though they might have done me dirty or done a whole bunch of people I know dirty, but they would stand in front of a room intimidating people. That's because they have a fear inside and so. Not now you have earned you. And by respect, I'll, I'll tell, I'll tell you something.

34:42 You. You've. Earned it. You've earned it. I will unlock it. Well, thank you. And I have to say, I'm not a woman of faith yet. I'm a woman who's extremely spiritual. And I relate to this idea of the spirit that's channeling through all of us. And I, but I look to you as a man of faith and I, you know, from the scripts that you read and the text that you read and the practice and your, you know, culture of faith, you know, I do believe it's all about living with love. And so love your enemy, even if your enemy happens to be that really mean boss who made you cry before the meeting and made you stand up in front of everybody and pretend you are crying.

35:20 Love them and forgive them because they're just afraid. Just love them and then know that you're going to keep going forward and doing the right thing. Yeah, you know something. But I, I always feel sorry for those kind of people. I pity you, right? Because I, I, I see this right in the real world.

35:40 In the real world. There is something as karma. I do believe in karma. I am the predator and you're the prey. I do believe in the. Real world I. Believe in karma and I've seen karma that those individuals, you know who you are. You know, you know that you can only make threats. When it's coming for. You when there's security there to save you. So I think the point is where you're you're going to pay, where do you pay?

36:10 Do you pay upfront or do you pay afterwards? I think it might be more painful if you're paying afterwards because you're going to in the process of falling from grace. I think then that's when the karma comes is yeah. And karma. Only from status. I think that's really, it is like if you've had that big job L with a leader with a capital L in your title, eventually your job is going to leave you. You might leave the job, but the job is also going to leave you. And those, the status that you have in that role is also going to leave you.

36:48 And you better get right with who you are inside. Because if you're not, all those things that you never dealt with are coming back and. It's big time. And so for those people that I know, they're going to get their due, they're going to get their chance at dealing with all this reckoning. I love you, I forgive you, and you have your chance at experiencing your own pain.

37:12 Yeah. Well, Speaking of breakfast, you know, there was a guy from some country, I'm not going to mention a country. And he was telling me how, you know, that I'm a gangster from this place. I'm like, OK, interesting. It's a country in Europe. I told him, hey, bro, I've been to your country. I've been to the capital of that country and I I know, I know the gangsters from there, right? You can't trust me.

37:40 But have you been to my country? He said no. Like you've been to Lagos, right? Yeah, I told me. I told you something. Do you know what we do in Lagos? In Lagos, Nigeria? We eat gangsters for breakfast. You can ask Jennifer. She's been there. Yes they do. In Lagos, we eat gangsters with the. Side of okra soup I've seen. It I'm telling you.

38:07 With the side of okra soup and maybe a plate full of garden slug, it's a. Thing be careful. Be careful. All the cool kids in Legos are having that for breakfast, so. I'm, I'm telling you like, OK, don't, don't play. Don't play with the people that are represented by this flag. Never, never. No, I agree. It's never a good idea.

38:32 It's never a good idea. It's we only end in tears. Yes. This is nice. You're having a good time here, right? Oh wow, I wish I had this side of Aqua soup. You know, it's it's delicious. So. I will. I have to confess, I did eat it on several occasions. Oh wow, So what was your best food today? I don't enjoy it.

38:54 You don't enjoy Aqua, No. I have. I have to be very honest. Yeah, I love the honesty. I didn't. I didn't eat Aqua. It wasn't just I tasted it once I had I had many bowls because I I love. I think that's part of what's the exciting part about visiting other cultures is did you? Try the seafood option Seafood Aqua.

39:12 What? What did you try? The seafood Aqua? No, I only had just the good old so fried okra. Give it to me day and night. I can't get enough of it. Fried, fried okra, yes, please, I'll eat it right now. Okra soup again, I had multiple bowls of it and multiple days and multiple meals thinking, oh, well, maybe it was just this restaurant that I didn't like or maybe at this place I didn't like.

39:34 It wasn't my preference because the way that the consistency, the way that it. You know. Taste is OK, but it's the way that it's kind of gelatinous. Yeah. Deli or slime, It's kind of a slime. I mean, you know, it's kind of a slimy soup, so I didn't love it, but what I did enjoy, I really enjoyed having the slugs. I thought it was great, like I had a whole plate, many plates of slugs.

40:01 I lot thought they were fantastic And please help me remind me. I think it's. I want the I can see. White like porridge that's dry, that you serve, that's. Oh, pounded yam. Yes. Oh God, yes. I. Literally eat. I could eat that every single day. It was slow. The pounded yam. That is a dope. Oh, I could have eaten that and I still could. Like, I could eat that today.

40:30 I wouldn't. Like, I would have ordered that right now. I was so good, yeah. I have a doctor friend of mine and you know, like, what are two other food one day And he was like, oh man, I don't want to eat pounded Yum. It's got so much, so much calories. It's going to make me feel heavy. So for a minute, what's tell me I'm just going to. Audit, it tastes nice.

40:53 It's like comfort food. It's in the American South. We have foods that we call comfort food, which are all about like the potatoes with the fried foods. So the pound of yam is like Nigerian comfort food. Like I would imagine it's the thing that like mom, please make me pounded yam because I'm going to feel loved.

41:13 I'm going to feel I'm going to feel cared for by you and I'm going to feel cozy. So give me that food like that's, that's the food. It's good. Did you try jollof rice? Which? Jollof Rice. I may have, I don't recall. The rice that is. Yeah, it's red. It's just like, yeah. Oh yes, Oh my gosh, yes, so good. Like every everybody likes that.

41:41 So good. I wonder why do I only give you awkward soup? But how about ecracy? Did you ever try something called Ecosy? It's like yellow with like green leaves. It's a. Soup. Yeah, Yes. The yellow one, that one, it has a good consistency. It's. Yeah, the texture is. Yeah, I really like that too.

42:01 I could eat a lot of that. The grape veggies like. Super. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Veggies. And then there's another one called an FRB row. That one is just yeah, green veggies. It's a pretty much a mixture of vegetables and it can be quite hot. You know, a lot of the things are spicy, so like, how do you cope with a spice? You just have a piece of bread nearby and you smile really large.

42:26 Really something I brought back was the dried meat that was super spiced. Like so good, so good. On the road back I need to have some. Right now I have some. Have a bite, have a bite, and if you're me, have a little piece of bread nearby that you can dampen the pain. But have a bite and enjoy some.

42:51 Bread. Have some bread. Just be ready. Yeah. Show me the package. Hold it up. Let's see it. Yeah. Is that? Wait, hold it up again. Is that package blue? Is that package? Yes, it's not blue. It's wrapped in something blue. Yeah. That's so good. That's so good. It's. This is what are you talking about.

43:18 That's exactly what I'm talking. About I'm sorry, I'm going to send you some. Yeah, yeah. You speak about a friend that you lost. And again, I'm sorry that you lost your dear friend when you were so young. And I lost a dear friend two years ago and he teased me about okra soup. He teased me about eating it. He just was so absolutely disgusted by the description that I gave of him.

43:47 I gave him of that. And so when you brought that meat out, I think I remember trying that meat and giving him some. When I came back from my dear, he did not appreciate it at all. Might this dear friend of mine died two years ago and he always sends me little messages in the color blue. So for example, this book called Solve for Happy would be a book you would have loved.

44:06 He shows up to me in the color blue. And you when you pulled out the packaging and it was blue, I said, Oh my gosh, this is my friend giving me, you know, winking at me, winking at me and laughing. This is him saying a little message of I'm here. So thank you for visiting. Thank you for visiting our wonderful podcast. And you're right, soup, miss.

44:30 I hope you're having an open soup in heaven, my dear friend. Probably. Yeah, hopefully, hopefully so hopefully so, you know, it's interesting and life how like certain moments like give you certain memories. But it's good to be open. And yeah, some people think being open is you've been vulnerable, but yeah, you're all human beings. Yeah, you'll be allowed to be vulnerable. Yeah, last time I checked, you know, we're not machines, so. Yeah, exactly.

45:01 We are. We are humans, emotional animals or animals driven by emotion. This, this dear friend of mine was also a neurosurgeon and like a brain surgeon for real life. Brain surgeon and the neuroscientist and he would say the brain is the only organ in our body that if my brain is sick, like if, if I, if my liver is sick, your liver won't be sick, but if my brain is sick, your, your brain could get sick too. And so this idea of the connectedness we have between people and the vulnerability that we have that could actually create vulnerability in other people or like we talked about earlier, leadership culture.

45:41 I can bring improve the culture any given day. I can be a leader even without capital. Li could be a leader. I can be as someone who spreads joy and brings the weather as well. Guess what? Speaking of neurosurgeons, this is August, right? Yes, I think on September 1 we have a neurosurgeon from Stanford University.

46:11 Oh wow. Expected to be on this podcast. Okay. I say. Well, congratulations, that's so exciting. I can't wait to listen to that episode. Definitely. I'll let you do as soon as it's out. Yeah. So yeah, yeah, good luck to you. We have that apartment. Well, I mean, thank you so. Much for having us interconnected, yeah. Everything, everything is connected. Nothing is accidental.

46:36 Everything is by design and interconnected. So I'm so grateful that you have me on your show. So thank you so much and thank you for making me very envious about your little snack. Let's go. Very envious, Very envious, very envious. You need to receive that Jerry again. Yeah, it will happen. I'm absolutely certain it will happen. There's no question it will.

46:57 So yeah. But OK, my next question right now is, have you ever faced relapse situation wherein your strategy is faced with resistance And how did you use collaboration or perhaps some improv to turn it around? I mean, strategy is only as good as, you know, the people that built it and the people who can implement it.

47:27 So you might have the most perfect strategy and you realize when it gets to implementation, you don't have the numbers, you don't have the resources, you don't have the capability. You know, you just when I say numbers, I mean numbers of people or the people who know how to do it. Look at what I have on my back. Push through.

47:44 Yeah, yeah, there you go. Exactly. So there's some pain. There might be some. Everyone read the the words behind. So it could be that they're all those things in your team are not capable or it could be all the circumstances that drove the strategy have changed. And so I think every decision we make, we can only hope to make the best decision with the data that's in front of us, so that that we can only make the best strategy with the data that informs it.

48:10 And when that data changes, so when the circumstances change about the thing that they, the thing that's outside of you that you're trying to get or grow, etcetera, you got to change your strategy. And if you realize you've got the wrong people, then you need to fix the people, fix change, etcetera. And so the world of improv is very useful in that improv like business, same thing.

48:34 We're both creating something from nothing always. So you develop a strategy in business, you develop a business itself, you develop a show. When you're doing a show in improv, entertaining someone, you start with nothing. So you get the suggestions, you gather data from the audience, you gather data from the market, whatever.

48:54 And then you create something new. And in order to be able to be creating effectively and then making the thing, you have to be hyper connected with each other. In order to be hyper connected, you have to trust each other, you have to listen. And as an individual, you have to be hyper focused, then you have to listen so and you say yes. And so you keep building everything as you go. So I think they're 100% interconnected. I have been running a comedy school here in Basel for the last four years and we perform on a, on a monthly or more than more than more often than monthly basis. And we're often coaching senior executives like yourself, like that, your listeners on how to use these tools of improv comedy and the tools of theatre improv,

49:44 improvisational theatre to make something new. So it could be new business model, It could be how to have better executive presence. It could be fighting imposter syndrome, which makes you feel so unsure or afraid. Like we could talk about those people before who are yelling at people in front of large groups of large audiences.

50:06 These are things that can fundamentally support you in your leadership journey. So I'm so grateful to be doing that because it's it's fun. It's first of all, it's fun. It's just a heightened way to live, really. I, I, I love the fact that you talk about impulsive syndrome, right? And when you look at the Kingdom's podcast, it's all about #1 world's mindset.

50:31 Yes to leadership. #3 yes. Inside mindset is very, very important to me. It's at the heart of the the body of work that I have put together. Mindset also influences your storytelling, improves about storytelling. Yes, if you do basically a storytelling, but not just storytelling, storytelling to create an impact. Yes.

50:57 That's what's set to your power. But what? What would you say generally people need to do in terms of their mindset to adopt A growth mindset so that they can succeed at anything that they do in their lives, whether it's a business or sports, whatever it is that you do, Yeah. So I'm going to use the rules of improv to because I'm going to rely on that as my toolbox that I used to have my own growth mindset and that I often teach the growth mindset.

51:31 There's not a lot. There's four of them. So rule #1 yes. And so yes means you say yes. It doesn't mean that agree. It means sometimes in the world of business, yes, I heard you. And I'm going to keep building. So keep using yes and don't use yes. But I'm sure you've been in lots of rooms where people say, yes, this is a great strategy, but all right, we all know someone who's done that. And it kills your collaboration, it kills the energy, etcetera. So rather say yes.

52:04 And, and you can keep that, that mood light, you can keep the creation going. So that's part of the yes. And mindset is part of the growth mindset #2 listen 2 ears, one mouth, right? So listen for a reason. I tell people there are four language skills you can, at least in reading, writing. Yeah.

52:27 So say yes and listen with all of your ears. Serve. So don't be a diva. Serve other people. So as a leader especially, you're there to get the best out of your people. And it's you as the the glory that you have is rather irrelevant. You need to get stuff done through other people. So therefore you need to lift them and serve them. So lift them to their highest potential. Lift them, grow them, teach them. Know that without your team, you are nothing. So continue to serve as a leader. And then the last one is accept that you will fail and actually push yourself into situations where you can fail and fail with joy and know that you're going to fail and you're going to just keep building.

53:15 When you fail, you realize one of the 99 things that that won't work. So now you've got you've got 100 tries. You get a failure for the 1st 30 times. My gosh, you still have 7 possible 70. Fail and fail fast. Fail fast. Get. Get up. Take yourself up. Dust yourself off. Keep going. Yeah, I love that a lot. And yeah, everybody who knows me knows that's what the life I am about.

53:45 I'm never afraid to feel like I won't be the first person to feel or something. I'm not going to be the last person. So why am I sad? But each other is people who succeed at things that people who are good at many other things. Yeah, absolutely. As a clean slate. Yeah, but you got it, right. You got it.

54:03 You got the four things. You got it. Go for it. Wow, it's been really, really great, you know, having you today. I've had a lot of fun and you know you, you are an inspiration to the younger generation. When we look at the show, we look at the demographics from the back end. On Spotify, majority of people who listen to this show or what to show are millennials between the ages of 28 to 44.

54:34 The form about 75% of the listenership of this show. So you are speaking to young professionals, young entrepreneurs and you are making an impact in, you know, the lives of the people that are shaping the next generation. So it's, it's a very big, I won't let you leave without, you know, you being a big sister to, you know, the aspiring young women out there to what's your, your, would I say your advice, right, to young professionals, especially the females, right, who aspire to be in leadership roles, you know, in business.

55:18 Yeah, I, I think the four things I said before, Yes. And listen, serve and fail, fail with joy and fail fast. That applies to you ladies as well. Now the other thing I'm going to say, gentlemen, plug your ears. Now, ladies, girls, let's talk. The most important decision that you're going to make for the future of your career is who you decide to have as a life partner.

55:44 Whether that is a charming man, a charming woman, a charming they whichever whomever you're going to be partnering with the he, she, they, them, that decision you're making is the most important decision that you're making. And I don't mean that from like a sentimental, oh, how sweet. It's that that person is going to influence possibly where you live, how you live, if you have children together, the future of your genetic code that's being passed on, and also whether you're going to have help when you are having children and whether you're having a career. You need that person to be your copilot and your person who celebrates you and every decision you're making if you're young.

56:29 Microsoft is going to be happy with you, Copilot. Go by. Microsoft's Copilot. Copilot this episode. Guys, guys, you need the president is going to be your GPT. Copilot. But really, ladies, it's really important to find someone who's going to support you because you've you're here, you're listening, you're building your career, you're building your empire, you've educated yourself. Keep learning.

56:55 Don't stop and know that the people that you surround yourself with, likely a romantic partner, will influence so much that you end up the opportunities you have in your life. So go get it. Choose well, choose wisely, and not that you shouldn't choose, choose for sure, but choose wisely and know that that person needs to be able to support you in all those decisions you can to go be the master of your life and master of your business.

57:21 That's a good advice. In that case, quick fire around. I'm going to put you through the Pacific Ring of Fire. Tell me the first thing that comes to your mind. 5 questions in one unit. SO1 book every leader should read What one book? One book that every leader should read. Emotional Business by Ravi Rao.

57:42 OK. Emotional Business by Ravi Rao. Nice voice, the best advice you ever received in your career. Going. Keep going. Give up, just keep going. I don't know going consistency is I. Think over the different over the different phases or seasons of my career. I think there's different advice that I received that helped me keep going. And I think it's really trust yourself like you are, you're, you're making all this up, you're driving all this. You are the creator of your life and trust that inner voice that you have.

58:19 And I think often in my own life and many people I know, they didn't trust that inner voice. So trust, trust that inner voice because that's your intuition telling you what's good for you and what's bad for you. So trust that inner voice and go with it. Tea or something stronger? Coffee. OK, right now it's 8:00 at night. I am dreaming and I'm not kidding. I'm dreaming of my coffee tomorrow morning because there's nothing.

58:46 I love coffee. I could drink it all day, and if I the experience of the first coffee in the morning, double shot espresso, maybe with a little bit of coconut cream. Pretty good. That experience of the taste, the texture, the feeling, the experience, the jolt from that first coffee. I wish I could be like that all day. I see say no more.

59:11 I see less. I'm dreaming about literally, you're not making one have a coffee right now because now then I won't sleep. But I want, I want, I want tomorrow morning's coffee right now. OK, so if you could have a coffee date with any three people, dead or alive, who would? Those people. Be any three people.

59:30 Oprah Winfrey. Miss Oprah. Please Miss Oprah. She is like my North Star. I'll have Oprah. Winfrey on this one. And, and I mean, really, I rehearsed the day that we're going to meet. I'm always like, Oprah, come on, it's a joke between you and me. No, Oprah, I know. Thank you so much. Thank you, Oprah.

59:50 I know, but it's between you and me. I know, GAIL. I know. It's it's funny. But Oprah. Yes. So I rehearsed the for the day we're meeting and we're friends. So Oprah, please. And then I'm going to say I, I mentioned when we were starting, I really love musical theater. I really, really love musical theater. And I would love to meet with Oprah and Lin Manuel Miranda, who is a playwright in America.

1:00:16 He's from the, he's from Puerto and he no, so is it Dominican? He's anyway from the Caribbean and he has written some of the most influential theater pieces this Millennium, which are just great pieces of art. And they because of his pieces of art, he has inspired people to learn history in a new and different way and look at our current life through a lens of history that's unique for today. So I would love to sit down and talk to him and get his creative process and get his mission and vision. Would love that.

1:00:53 And then I think the last one would probably be our dear brother, Nelson Mandela. Truly a long walk to freedom as a leader, as a as an activist, as a leader, as a man of God who is able to endure all he did he and watch his people, his colleagues, his community crumble and still have the fortitude to forgive and to turn a turn a moment of which could have been potentially bitterness, anger, retribution, into forgiveness, love and leadership.

1:01:34 I would love to talk to him about that journey and just to be in his presence. There are people who have met him. I never got a chance to meet. I met Kofi Annan, who had that kind of vibe. You've. Got Kofi Annan. I met Kofi Annan and. You have something interesting. He's really, he had that vibe of like he's, he's a good person.

1:01:56 So I understand that people who met Nelson Mandela had that feeling like you were in the presence of someone who truly was channeling love in a way that you could never, never not experience. I would, I would love to talk to him. Wow. Yeah, he passed. OK. The interesting stuff I'm going to confirm to you is that both Iana and Attisha the same birthday with me, I was born April 8th, 1938 and I was born April 8th, 1992.

1:02:30 So you're in the presence of greatness. So it's a passing of the bottom. I am was certainly in the presence of greatness. That's fantastic. Yeah, wow. Yeah, I have some like interesting, but they made Kofi Annan April 8. That's who you would be with. That's who you have coffee with. Who you? Have I, I need to, I need to find a, a number of 8.8 guys to have coffee with baby Robert Kiyosaki, Kofi Aden and I'll find one more.

1:03:06 OK, Myself. Myself. That's three, Three. Yeah, this 32 is a company, 3 is a crowd there. You go, there you go. 4 is complicated, so 3 is better. That's complicated. OK, what's one word that sums up your life philosophy? Joy. Joy. OK, I love that. Yeah, joy is. It's very important because joy is different from happiness.

1:03:36 Joy is actually deep. Well, a lot of people tend to, would I say, mistake joy for happiness. They're two different things. Joy. Joy is deep. It's would I say it's more long lived or happiness is more short lived? Yeah, yeah, I love that bro. So now let me keep the joy. But you. Keep the. Joy, maybe. Maybe the happiness, the happiness is going out the window because it's it's the end of the show. But for me, it's love and respect to you, of course. Yeah, this has been a great time. Great impacts, great conversations, great connections.

1:04:21 And you know, guys, guys out there, do the needful like, share comments, subscribe. And of course, I will keep working tirelessly to bring in great individuals like Jennifer Kane. And of course, if you don't, if you don't share it, if you're going to see me in your dreams and I'm going to break your nose like a birth mouse.

1:04:53 Now I'm very afraid. Thank you very much for putting. Me on your show, I'm so grateful. It was a wonderful conversation. Do you have anybody want to have a shout to give a shout out to you? Anyone I want to give a shout out to? Yeah, I just think in the spirit of the older people we serve, we are here every day. We love serving you and it is just a delight to know that we make your life a little better every single day. OK, so love and respect to you the audience that of course keep going for something in your life. Always go for something in your life. Conceive, believe, strive to thrive and go achieve. Bless you guys.

1:05:35 For me it is goodbye and of course from Jennifer, it is good night.