Bonus Episode: Bob Weir, Bohemian Grove, more Orion, and First-Gen Punks

0:01 Hey, discos, need a little more Disgraceland in your life, just to touch to get you through.

0:07 Yeah, me too.

0:08 This is the podcast that comes after the podcast. Welcome to Disgraceland, the after Party. Welcome to the Disgraceland bonus episode, a little thing we like to call the after party. This is the show after the show, the party after the party, the bridge to get from one full episode of Disgraceland to the other, the backyard, to dig into the dirt, our mission to uncover the truth, to confront the myth, to reclaim the story. On this bonus episode, we're discussing the passing of the Grateful Debts Bob. We're in the long, strange weirdness of his affiliation with Bohemian Grove.

0:53 We talked Johnny Thunders in first wave punk and get into your emails, comments, dms, and as always a whole lot of This is the podcast for the musically obsessed, the outsiders, the independent thinkers who know that the best history is the history that gets buried. Disgraceland is where I tell the stories they didn't want told, the kind you'll end up telling someone else. All Right, this goes, let's get into it. Grateful dead guitarist Bob Weird died since the last time we spoke. I'm not going to eulogize him here. You can get plenty of that elsewhere and by people who's grateful. Dead fandom honestly runs a lot deeper than mine. But I will say that in all of my research, in everything that I've read, every

1:49 person I've ever spoken to about the band, including one dead associate, who could only really be closer to the band if you were in the band. That's how close he was. In all all that, I never came across a shred of credible information that painted Bob Weir as a bad guy. And believe me, my rock and roll dirt bag antenna is pretty finely tuned, as you know.

2:15 I think that it's safe to say that in an industry filled with feral animals, most of whom are driven by insatiable IDs, and for whom kindness and selflessness are oftentimes in short supply, I think it's safe to say that Bob Weir was one of the good guys. I'm not suggesting the man was perfect, none of us are.

2:40 Bob was the baby of the group. He was just seventeen. He's seventeen years old. Imagine that seventeen when he joined the band, he stayed in that band his whole life. Back then, they were known as Mother mccree's Uptown jug Champions before famously changing their name to The Grateful Dead, and maybe being the youngest had something to do with Bob playing the straight man to Jerry Garcia's far out, improv and sometimes personal, unhinged liberation. But Bob Weir was still a member of one of, if not the greatest and strangest American rock and roll bands of all time, a band that lived and died by its own DIY code of artistic and personal freedom, freedom at all costs.

3:25 My point is that though Bob Weir was the group's straight man, he was still a member of the Grateful Dead, which is why this whole Bohemian Grove affiliation with Bob always struck me as being just so weird, so strange. Now I've resisted this story for years, but now might be the time that I dive in not to capitalize on Bob's death. By the time I'm done researching and releasing this story, a handful of other influential artists musicians will likely have passed, so it's clearly not it. The real reason is to find out what the hell was actually going on. Now, if you aren't familiar with Bohemian Grove and you start researching it on the Internet, you're likely going to run across some descriptions to paint a

4:16 picture of just a simple social club for ultra connected, rich right wing dudes from CIA families, from the prep school in the Age of America. And you might also run into some folks who think Bohemian Grove is the Illuminatis headquarters. It's the legacy of Alistair Crowley and the keeper of all Things Bear Olesley, and of mk ultra's dark as Secrets. Bohemian Grove is a target rich subject for conspiracy theorists, which I have to admit both repels and compels me. But either way you can't get around Bob Weir's involvement, his affiliation, his membership. Now, it doesn't make him a member of the Illuminati, but it does beg the question why was the guitarist for The Grateful Dead hanging out with Donald Rumsfeld? Okay? The Bohemian Club

5:09 is a private San Francisco based club that owns and operates Bohemian Grove, about seventy five miles north of the city. The club hosts one yearly retreat. But this is a retreat whose members are exclusively rich wealthy, actually not rich wealthy, let's be clear, and of America's old guard ruling class.

5:35 These are pre globalism titans think twentieth century, not twenty first century. Pre Davos e global economic influence back when white waspy dudes with Ivy League pedigrees that stretch back to the First World War and beyond when those dudes still ran everything. Bohemian Grove is for dudes who started the OSS, which became the CIA. Okay, these are the types of people who were hanging out at Boian Grove. Again, Bob weird and Bohemian Groove is also coase without saying probably.

6:07 It's also super white, hardly any Jews as members or blacks, super waspy, Protestant, decidedly not Catholic. It's rumored that Edward Teller planned the Manhattan Project at Bohemian Grove. In nineteen sixty seven. Richard Nixon kicked off his sixty eight campaign informally by giving a talk at Bohemian Grove and Nixon was later caught on one of his Oval office tapes describing Bohemian Grove as quote the most faggy, goddamn thing you could ever imagine. Unquote more on that in a second.

6:41 And the retreats at Bohemian Grove they produce their own entertainment. Okay, I don't know if you've ever seen The Good Shepherd, the Robert De Niro Matt Damon movie about the CIA and the origins of the CIA, but there is this retreat kind of big set piece scene that happens in the beginning and come back to it in the end, and there are these skits, these men who dress up in drag, and they do these songs and blah blah blah.

7:08 And it's exactly the type of thing I've read that describes the entertainment ongoings at Bohemian Grove, where you know, the members put on skits and musical numbers, and these men, being of the early twentieth century vintage, most of the humor is, you know, it derides homosexuals, and it's just, yeah, it's silly, very silly. And because of that regressive silliness, I guess it supports Nixon's comments that were going on tape that I just read to you that a heavy contingent of Bohemian Grove members for that retreat week. Anyway, let's just say the the rumors are that they exercise their curiosity. Okay. Now, that's not to say the Bohemian Grove is the least bit, for it's not not in any way. In fact, it is decidedly conservative. One rumor

8:06 claims it. Back in the nineteen seventies, the Grove employed an actual member of the Nazi Party, one who drove a company jeep around the grounds transporting guests with urn Rommel sticker proudly displayed on the vehicle until President Ford, of all people, made him remove the Nazi sticker. Now, whether or not the Bohemian Grove employee was an actual Nazi that remains a matter of debate. But the sticker was real, and Ford made the Grove employee remove the Nazi paraphernalia, that is not disputed. All of this begs the question what the hell was Bob Weir doing at this place with Mickey Hart from The Grateful Dead as well as late as two thousand and nine, probably later, even I need to do more research to find out

8:50 again two thousand and nine after performing benefit concerts to raise money for Barack Obama in two thousand and eight. Bohemian Grove is where America's past powerbrokers, the dudes who brought you en Ron Halliburton, WMDs, MK, Ultra Operation Mockingbird, in a mountain of other bullshit, this is where these dudes hung out. This is where these dudes came together once a year. Now, if you believe the conspiracy theorists, and I most certainly don't, let's be clear. The Bohemian Grove retreats. This is where robed figures and hoods set fire to effigies. This is Look. I know, I'm trying to paint the picture of conspiracy theorists, but that little bit I just read you the road figures in hoods setting fire to effigies. That actually happened. It's on video, okay.

9:40 But sacrifices, human sacrifices, all kinds of other stuff, wild, wild theories, praying to some ancient god named Mallick. How much of this is true? How much of this is just some weird prep school skull and bone shit meant to make old rich dudes feel me sterious I don't know, But either way, I repeat, what was Bob Weir doing with these dudes? Was he an actual Satanist as has been suggested? Was he into child sacrifice? Was was he og all seeing Illuminati? I don't think so. No, no, and no. But when asked about Bohemian Grove throughout his life, Bob Weir was, let's just say, purposefully vague, especially when he addressed these comments back in twenty twenty two. In vague is putting it charitably. There's an interview that you

10:39 can find where We're online, where Bob's on video spitting out some gobblygook about community, the community of Bohemian Grove, and he's also pretty disingenuous when he's describing the types of people who hang out at Bohemian Grove, it's members, making it seem like most of the Bohemian Grove members have some sort of quote unquote artistic bent. They don't.

11:04 I mean some do, but they're very much in the minority. Although I did find out that there's typically a fifteen year waiting list to join Bohemian Grove, but that artistic types and entertainers get fast tracked to membership. The Bohemian Grove, the retreat over two thy menut of ten, and you got to know this part the lodging is divided up into different camps, just like you know a summer camp would be. And to hear Bob Weird tell it, it says if he was sitting by a campfire trading songs with Steve Miller while Mickey Hart played the bongos, but in reality, Mickey Hart was slash is for all we know, part of the Bohemian Grove camp called the Hillbillies. That camp also housed Donald Rumsfeld when Rumsfeld was alive and

11:54 when Mickey was attending. Presumably he's not anywhere. I don't know Bob Weir was in a camp called the Rattlers, and I haven't been able to figure out yet. I've been able to find in the research which Boldface Neo Khn names, if any, that Bob Weir was camped up with. But regardless, this is so perplexing and it's great music history counterpoint. It's kind of mysterious, and I am fascinated by it. Am I judging Bob Weir for his involvement in this secret society with some of the most ghoulish power brokers in American history, Henry Kissinger and Donald Rumsfeld specifically, No, I'm not. I actually think more highly of them for it, for reasons that I guess I'll get into when I write my Bob Weir episode and fully explore the mystery

12:41 of Bohemian Grove. Bob Weir, an American original if there ever was one, Rest in peace. I'm barely scratching the surface here when it comes to the theories about what the men in the woods were up to. The Bohemian Grove conspiracy theories are nuts, and Zeth and I are going to dive into some of the more interesting ones the exclusive section of this after party. Go to disgracelandpod dot com to sign up so you can cop this in more exclusive Disgraceland content and unlock ad free listening. All right, have you heard the Johnny Thunders episode of Disgraceland yet, our newest full episode. It's available fresh free years right now and on Friday. Coming up right after this bonus episode is our MC five story. We chose MC five

13:25 in our rewind slot this week because of the connection between the Motor City Fives, Wayne Kramer and Johnny Thunders and the brawl in Boston that we detail in our exclusive mini episode this week for our All Access members on Apple and Patreon. Coming up next week on Tuesday, our new episode on the Runaways. When you're listening to this episode on the Runaways, be thinking about more female artists that you'd like to hear covered in Disgraceland. That's gonna be the question of the week. Six one seven nine oh six, six six three eight. Send me a voicemail, le me a text, and let me know your recommendations.

14:00 We'll be back right after this with your voicemails, text, dms and more.

14:03 Back in the flash.

14:22 All right, discoes Georgie, Sue and Girls Girls seventy three Hit me up. Six one seven nine oh six six six three eight. I got some merch coming to you, guys, Big pimp in on Spotify. Same goes for you. Get in touch, got some pins, got a couple of shirts, some books. Cleaning out the old merch storage here before we do a new run and I want to just you know, get you guys some cool stuff. Listen, leave a review. That's the whole thing. That's why Big Pimpin Georgie, Sue and Girls Girls seventy three are getting that free merch.

14:55 They loft some reviews on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Each week. As you may know, I select a few reviews if I read your name or the review here on the show. Get in touch and you'll get some free work and you'll get some free merch. That's how it works, all right. And this isn't just for Eco, as I said last week, this is because the reviews helped power discovery in the podcast listening apps, and we appreciate it, all right, voicemails, Let's hear from all y'all on what Well? Last week we were talking about a couple different things. I cued up this question about first generation punk bands, which we're gonna get to, but we also talked about o'riyan, the Elvis Presley, the masked Elvis Presley impersonator, and a lot

15:39 of you really want to talk about this, so let's hear what you have to say.

15:45 Hey, Jake, Then from the eighth three, I actually had to pause the episode because I was about to bust because you guys landed on one of my favorite subjects. A little background grew up, like a lot of us did, with a mom who was absolutely obsessed with Elvis. Me personally, I love the seventies Elvis, from the early ten days in Las Vegas to the old blood that Elvison. It was kind of embarrassing, but anyway, long story short. My uncle was a professional recruiter for the Navy. So he's in Pensacola, Florida in the late eighties early nineties, somewhere along in the air, sitting in a bar on a recruiting trip. This lady comes up, but it's basically one of those hay sailor, can you buy me a drink

16:24 kind of thing. It's Gail Brewer Georgio. So she starts telling him all this stuff as Seth was discussing about not being able to get the book published and all this kind of stuff. So that of course started me down a rabbit hole. I found a copy of the book. I read the book. It was obviously Elvis, and she later admits that she wrote the book just after Elvis died.

16:46 I believe inspired by the whole thing. There's a dug into it. I listened to all those is Elvis alive, It's set days that were rolling around back then, all that good stuff. But anyway, I kind of put it out of my mind that there is an amazing documentary that I purchased through Amazon Prime Video that I have digitally and it's called Orion. A man who would be King gives you the whole story of Jimmy Ellis, and you know how he got lumped into this thing is you know, he was an entertainer. He didn't want to be this guy, but money's money, right. Anyway, It's a great documentary and there's a little fact at the end I'm not going to bring up yet because you know, hopefully you guys can check it out that was very

17:29 surprising but also makes a hell of a lot of sense. Anyway, I know this is getting a little long, so you guys have a great day. To keep it up. Rock rolla, all.

17:40 Right, Ado three, thanks for your voicemail. I have seen this Amazon Prime video that you're discussing. Most of it. Actually, I did not finish it. I didn't get to the end, so I have not gotten to the part that you're teasing here. But I think what you're teasing out is that there's some factual evidence supporting the idea that o'rian was the child of Vernon Presley and thus Elvis's step brother.

18:07 I think that's where you're going. Call me back and let me know. Guys, at this point, I think it's safe to say that I'm absolutely doing an Orion episode at some point in Disgraceland, probably not for a bit. We've got a bunch of other subjects I'm excited to dive into. Let's hear from the seven one four.

18:25 Hey, Jay, there's a Junius from the seven one four. I got a movie recommendation for you. Just listening to your last chapter party about Elvis and Orian. There's a movie from two thousand and two starring Bruce Campbell called Bubba Hotech. If you haven't seen it, check it out. Elvis in a convalescent home, an African American JFK fighting a mommy that looks like Michael Jackson. Really fun, have an open mind, enjoy yourself. Hope you watch it. Take it.

18:54 He's the Jake. Thanks for doing what you're doing there.

18:57 Seven to one four. I'm sure we all have this experience where these are there are these movies in our lives that we've known about for years and that we're very excited to watch, But for some reason, we never get our lazy asses around to it, and that is absolutely the case with Bruce Campbell and Bubba Hotep. Is how you say it, Bubba Hotep, thank you for reminding me, my friend. I will dive into this and I will get back to you with my thoughts. This is going to be more gris for the Orion mill I can tell already. Seven one four appreciate you six one, seven, nine oh six, six, six three eight. You guys want to leave me a voicemail, send me a text again.

19:32 We're looking for answers to the question which female artists you want to hear covered in Disgraceland in the next few seasons. Six one seven, nine oh six, six, six three eight. Give us a call after you check out that Runaways episode coming your way on Tuesday and let us know your answers to your recommendations. We've got a new episode on Johnny Thunders, of course from the New York Dolls, and that prompted the question which first generation punk bands are your face and do you think we're the most influential seven to one nine rights in first gen punk artists the jam They may be a bit too tasteful for some people's definition, but you included talking Heads in your description, and I submit them because they

20:14 weren't as big in the USA as many others. Seven one nine. I think you're onto something here. I think the Jam's influence, especially on UK bands, is massive, and especially as you get into the britpop era, the Jam's influence, Paul Weller's influence huge, and they often are overlooked when we talk about first generation punk, and I think that has something to do with just how dynamic of a band.

20:40 They were similar to the Talking Heads, not saying they were similar in style to the Talking Heads, but they were more than punk. They had this whole R and B soul, northern soeul thing going on. And you can absolutely hear and see their influence on not just punk, but on rock and roll throughout the eighties and the nineties.

21:03 And I love this answer. Seven to one to nine. Thanks for getting in touch with us. Let's check out the four to one six four one six is writing in response to our Chet Baker archive episode that we released four one six rites and Hey, I'm reading Patti Smith's latest memoir, Bread of Angels, and she recounts that when she was making her first album at Electric Ladies Studios, she tried to hire Chet Baker to play on a track, but their budget couldn't afford his feet. This is like nineteen seventy five. You think Chet would have been happy just to play on any album at that point. I also believe that his rendition of Almost Blue by Elvis Costello, which is in the Let's Get Lost documentary, is the

21:42 greatest male jazz vocal ever recorded, and I will die on that hill. Let's Get Lost by Bruce Weber is one of my favorite films of all time. And yes I said favorite film, not just favorite documentary. Four one six. Thanks for this. I had no idea about the Patti Smith Chet Baker anecdote that you mentioned, and I love that story. I can see Jimmy Ivan right now just getting frustrated with Chet's management and just hanging up the phone on them. Yes, Let's Get Lost, It's just it's a beautiful film. It's fantastic, and I agree with you.

22:15 The performance of Almost Blue is something special, man, It really truly is. The Elvis version doesn't sell out you either. It's great. Nine one seven, right, San, I think New York Dolls are my favorite punk band. Iggy is beyond punk as well as Velven Underground. I lived a few blocks from CBGB, but sadly didn't spend much time there between two thousand and two and two thousand and seven.

22:37 I remember the hits from the New York Dolls, but did not appreciate them enough until I read Please Kill Me. I think that book also deserves an episode because it really should answer your question, certainly in the question being you know what's the most influential first gen punk band, certainly as it applies to punk rather than rock and roll.

22:54 I may express more of these thoughts on Twitter. I'm due to make a music video meme. Okay, this is nine one seven nine one seven. Thank you. I read the rest of your text, obviously to myself, not on air, and I agree with you that Repo Man should be an episode, maybe an episode of Hollywoodland. I'm not sure on Please Kill Me. I read Please Kill Me after my first son was born, and it hit me. I could tell when I was reading it that it hit me in a way that was different had I read it before my first child was born, and that experience was just a couple months before coming up with the idea for Disgraceland. And I think that Please Kill Me.

23:42 The book had a direct impact on me creating this show, so I'm forever in debt to Leg's McNeil. I've gone back to that book a couple times in our research. It's fantastic and if anybody has not read Please Kill Me, go for it. It's out there. You can find it everywhere, and it is a great document of punk rock, written by co written by the dude who literally invented the term punk and it's a fantastic oral history of punk in New York. It's great, great text, great voicemails This week guys six one seven nine, six, six, six three eight at Disgrace lam Pod on the socials, Disgrace lampod at gmail dot com on email if you want to get in touch, we'll be back right after this. All right, guys, welcome back. We are here making it happen. In the

24:48 bonus episode, I want to shout out some of the new members in our all access to Patreon. Nicole Adams, Patrick Haywood, Lord Davies, Celine Johansson, Miranda Nicole. Those are just a handful of the new members of the disco community, many of them coming in at our new Sound and Fury tier level and just want to pass along my gratitude.

25:09 Everybody from the team here is psyched to have you and all the other new members as well. We've had a lot of new membership over the last couple of weeks. I think I think part of that is due to the fact that we have this, like I said, this new offering, the sound in Fury offering, which for ten bucks a month you get the new disgrace Land video podcast.

25:28 This film should be played loud where once a month we are going to buy wem Me and my colleague, doctor Zeth Lundy, We're going to sit down. We're going to dissect you know, basically, you know, the one of our favorite things in the world, which is great music in great films, the soundtracks, the needle drops, the scoring.

25:47 Last month we covered Goodfellas. This month we are covering Train Spotting. We recorded it last night, filmed it, I should say, and what a fantastic movie. The music in this movie is obviously so important, so impactful, not just for the film but culturally, and really I really realized in going back to Train Spotting, similar to one of the one of you guys texted us earlier, I read the text about Legs McNeil's Please Kill Me, and maybe I'm just in this headspace. But in train spotting and going back and watching it and watching the voice and experiencing uh McGregor's vo with the soundtrack that's happening, in the way the writing works, with all of it, I realized how influential that movie has been on me as

26:45 a as a creative person, and how I just sort of fell into making Disgraceland. The way that we made it, the production of it, the writing of it, the structure of it, the presentation of it, all of it in a way it goes to this film been a lot of nineties films that are that were made in a similar fashion, and that was all. I never thought about that before until we dove back into this movie to prepare for this film should be played loud podcasts that will be coming your way last week of January. We releases the last Wednesday of every January January, so that's a not too far off anyways. Disgrace mpod dot com to sign up if you want to grab that exclusive content.

27:28 Also want to shout out Sean Hill on Patreon, who's been a member for a long time. He's unfortunately a Cincinnati Bengals fan, so I feel for him. He's got nothing to watch the rest of this winter, you know, his team just you know, I don't know what happened there, but you know, maybe maybe next year, buddy, and big shout out to the y insurers as well. That was a horrible way to go out the other night in Pittsburgh, thinking to you guys. Now, earlier we were talking Bob Weir, we were talking Bohemian Grove, and we're going to continue talking Bohemian growth specifically. You know, I mentioned some of the conspiracies involving Bohemian Grove, the sort of like you know, eyes wide shut of politics, I guess you could call it.

28:09 And let's not rule out sex. There's a lot of sex involved in these conspiracies as well. And just you know, powerbrokers in the woods left to their own devices, doing weird shit, making the world run on their weirdness. That's uh yeah, we're going to be getting into all of that in the exclusive section coming up. Short, we've got to be an all access member to cop that disgrace sampod dot com to sign up and get exclusive content like this, like our bonus episodes also going to get ad free listening. I appreciate everyone who's already a member, appreciate everybody who's considering it. Love this conversation.

28:47 I hope you love it too.

29:02 All right, welcome back. We're about to get out of here. Listen. You know we mentioned, I don't know, we mentioned a bunch of artists who we have episodes on. We have over two hundred and fifty five episodes. Probably keep saying two hundred fifty five, it's probably about two seventy five at this point. It's a lot. And we do have two Grateful Dead episodes. Okay. The first one was instantly when I wrote it, one of my favorite episodes because it brought me in to the Grateful Dead as a fan.

29:25 I wasn't a fan before I got into the research at all. In fact, I was actively actively.

29:30 Not a fan.

29:32 You can interpret that however you want, But if you want a good sort of bedrock foundation of understanding of the types of dudes that the Grateful Dead were connected with back in the sixties, and how and how those connections might have easily transferred into a bohemian growth membership, you got to listen to this episode, it'll all start to make sense, it'll start to click in for you.

30:00 And then with the second episode we did, which was years later, when I was researching the Dead the first time part of the research, I just found it really kind of, I don't know, adorable, their youth when they're in pre Grateful Dead phase. And I actually had this idea. I was like, oh man, what if they had like a Grateful Dead cartoon that was like Muppet Babies, but it was Jerry and Phil and Bob And it was like, you know, Bill, all those dudes, but like way early, and they all have their own unique personalities and they're all exaggerated for the cartoon version.

30:43 Of the Dead.

30:43 And I never pitched it to anyone, thank god, but it really got me seriously thinking about the Dead's origin story, which is less dark than their nineteen sixties, nineteen seventies, eighties story, and it's connected to a period of music history, this sort of old timey Americana world that I love and that actually is pretty dark in a different way.

31:13 And we centered that whole telling of history around pig Pen, who passed away in the nineteen seventies, the first member of the Dead to die. Anyways, both those episodes are available and you got to check them out. Matt will have the episode information in the show notes section of this after party. All right, let's recap, shall we. Number one, this week's new episode on Johnny Thunders is available for you right now. Got a rewind episode coming up on the MC five that's happening right after this bonus episode.

31:45 Next week's new episode is on the Runaways. We are looking for your recommendations on which female artists we should cover. Get in touch six one seven nine oh six sixty six three eight voicemail and text and let me know. Number four is Deeth is going up some awesomeness in the Hollywood Land feed. Make sure you are subscribed. This film should be played loud. We have an episode right now available for our Patreon subscribers. You can check that out by becoming a member. It's on Goodfellas, and the new episode on Train Spotting will be available in I guess a week and a half something like that. Six p one seven nine oh six, six six three eight. Again, your voice keeps us digging into the dark corners of

32:24 music history. So keep calling, keep texting, keep giving us your answers. To this week's question of the week or just you know, whatever else you want to talk about. I'm here for a number seven. Don't forget this goes. This isn't just content. It's a community, a community of the obsessed. And no one cares about music, books, records and the crime and grime that ties them all together like you do. And well that's a disgrace, all right.

32:44 Bob Weird passed away just a few days ago, January tenth, twenty twenty six. Here's what America was listening to on that day. Number one, The Fate of Ophelia Taylor Swift last week twenty six, peak position one weeks on Chart thirteen. Number two Golden by Hunter slash X last week twenty five, peak position on chart, one weeks on chart number twenty six.

33:13 Number three Ordinary by Alex Warren thirty last week peak position peak peak position weeks one weeks on chart forty six. Number four No I Need by Olivia d last week thirty six, peak position four weeks on charts nineteen. Number five SHOs in Texas l LA last Quit talking and start mixing.