369: Imagining Fallout as a Massive Table Top Wargame (move over Modiphius!)

0:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Robots radio, games, lore, stories, community, just press play. [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the Fallout lore cast. [SPEAKER_02]: The podcast that explores the boundaries of our knowledge about the world of Fallout. [SPEAKER_02]: One of the reasons why I love Fallout so much is that the setting and the different characters, the factions, the world, the monsters, lend themselves so well to a variety of different ways that you can engage with them.

0:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, what I'm talking about is how fallout over time has changed the way or at least the games have changed and the way we engage with the games are different. [SPEAKER_02]: In the early days, you had kind of this isometric RPG set up and then eventually they did tactics games and then you had a first person RPG with the Bethesda fallouts and then eventually multiplayer.

1:06 [SPEAKER_02]: There's also tabletop versions of fallout. [SPEAKER_02]: kind of like a D&D-esque kind of role play system, but then they also have Wasteland Warfare, which is more of a squad-based combat kind of system, but it's not massive and large, like Warhammer 40K. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's why I'm doing this episode this week.

1:26 [SPEAKER_02]: I have a very wonderful guest with me in order to talk about how we could take fallout and make it a massive war game. [SPEAKER_02]: something way bigger than anything modifus has done so far, something on par with Warhammer 40K, with different factions and different settings and different special effects and abilities, and this is going to be a wonderful conversation, because Brad is from the 40K Lorkas, and he knows his stuff.

1:52 [SPEAKER_02]: He's been playing these games since the 1980s, and I'll just tell you now, I'm patting ourselves on the back. [SPEAKER_02]: because we already did the interview that you're about to hear and some of these ideas are really, really cool. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm excited for you to hear them and I'm also excited to get your perspectives as well.

2:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Please comment and if we missed an idea that seemed obvious or something that maybe a genius idea that you have about the way that you could make this work. [SPEAKER_02]: Let me know who knows. [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe in the future we'll get a massive fallout work game. [SPEAKER_02]: All right, enjoy the conversation.

2:22 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll see you on the other side. [SPEAKER_02]: Alright, joining me, this week is a wonderful guest, a man who is known for his extremely popular 40K lorecast and his new history of lorecast, our history of 40K podcasts. [SPEAKER_02]: And a guy who has been playing tabletop and war game games, I don't even know the right way to say these things.

2:54 [SPEAKER_02]: video games like fallout since as we were joking in the pre-show the dawn of time. [SPEAKER_02]: This is Brad from the Forty-K-LorkS joining me again. [SPEAKER_02]: Brad, it's so good to talk to you again. [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back. [SPEAKER_01]: this guy, so I can give him a, so I can be continuous on how I show up at every single cast.

3:09 [SPEAKER_00]: It's good to have him. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm really excited to be here. [SPEAKER_00]: I love talking pretty much anything gaming and I've been doing it. [SPEAKER_00]: When we joke about that, you're saying, like, I've been gaming since the beginning of time, but I'm at all bad, and I have been playing video games since well, the late 80s.

3:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and you, it's been a while. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and you have a lot more experience with the tabletop side of it, and war gaming, and of course, I'm stumbling over my words, so you can fill in the gaps on that stuff for me. [SPEAKER_02]: But the reason I'm bringing you back this week is to take a look at Fallout, and how Fallout would make sense as a war game, like little models and units moving them around, and believe me, somebody is already yelling at their speakers going, [SPEAKER_02]: Wait a minute, it doesn't fall out already have a tabletop system and a war game.

3:56 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, what about wasteland warfare? [SPEAKER_02]: And you and I have been discussing this. [SPEAKER_02]: Those systems are, they line up more on the role playing side and less on the war gaming 40k massive army kind of thing that you are more familiar with. [SPEAKER_02]: So I thought it would be fun to get together and brainstorm with you.

4:17 [SPEAKER_02]: how would fall out work in a massive war gaming sense? [SPEAKER_02]: And I believe it would, and one of the reasons for that, yeah, and one of the reasons for that is that every time I talk to people, they talk about, oh, my favorite faction is this. [SPEAKER_02]: I love the brotherhood of steel, or I love the on-clave, or man, it would be really cool to be a super mutant in the games, that kind of thing.

4:40 [SPEAKER_02]: And I can just imagine a system where you sit at a huge table. [SPEAKER_02]: You've got a gigantic map of the wasteland. [SPEAKER_02]: And you are rolling out the brotherhood, and maybe I'm bringing a bunch of super mutants, and we are going toe to toe with massive units, and all sorts of different things going on.

4:59 [SPEAKER_02]: So I wanted to get into that. [SPEAKER_02]: But before we can start in the details, can you explain to us the difference between those systems? [SPEAKER_02]: Like, what makes something a little bit more role-playing? [SPEAKER_02]: What makes something more? [SPEAKER_02]: We're gaming setup.

5:11 [SPEAKER_02]: What is the difference between say D&D and 40K? [SPEAKER_02]: How does that work? [SPEAKER_00]: So one of the biggest differences is that D&D, 40K, any of the tech feels like that you're one, we're playing in a larger scale. [SPEAKER_00]: 40K is played on a 60 inch by 44 inch board. [SPEAKER_00]: So, and you have right now it's 2,000 points, which means nothing if you don't know the cost of the units.

5:32 [SPEAKER_00]: But there's a lot of stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: The games are three hours long with a lot of things [SPEAKER_00]: like you need a massive like dining room table kind of set just like sweaty they say that one the 40k actually shrunk their tables down about 10 years ago specifically to be uh... gw games workshop is based on a vingling they said the average [SPEAKER_00]: Dining your own table is this so they made it that so yeah, that's exactly how it's played on yeah, but you need more and it's more it is a skirmish game, but it's a much larger game and you're looking at warfare versus 40k you've got a lot of individual models on the board for warfare [SPEAKER_00]: And, basically, what you're specifically doing for all of the sort of work gaming, and you're looking at a lot of units of guys between five, ten, fifteen, twenty people in any one squad can be there, you know, you've got your big things, your tanks, your monsters, which would be something like, you know, a super muted, but super minutes could possibly be in squad, there's big things in squad and forty k, it's just a more of a grander scale, you need more,

6:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's one of the bigger things. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just like, hey, what do you have on the table? [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you're going to have more things. [SPEAKER_00]: The warfare for all fallout right now is more of a very they have a very small board. [SPEAKER_00]: And you do a lot of individual movements.

7:00 [SPEAKER_00]: It goes one, one, one, 40K plays. [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody moves all of their stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: You have a couple effectively interrupts that you can do in fighting and stuff like that. [SPEAKER_00]: But for the most part, one side has takes their turn. [SPEAKER_00]: So in 40K and a lot of the big games like that.

7:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I have the top of the turn, so we have five turns. [SPEAKER_00]: You go on top of one, then I go on bottom of one, so on and so forth. [SPEAKER_00]: And again, you have certain interrupts on one, not. [SPEAKER_00]: But for the most part, I have to do all of my stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: And that is because there's so many units on the board.

7:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going at the time of this recording. [SPEAKER_00]: And a week, I'm going to turn them at. [SPEAKER_00]: And I've got 17 scoring units, and I'm bringing over a hundred and some models, and that doesn't include characters that are attached to units. [SPEAKER_00]: So making it fall out into a larger game like this, we'd want to put [SPEAKER_00]: more units and flesh out the factions more.

7:58 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the things that I really like, but if you're making it a larger game, if you're looking at Fallout on a large tabletop game, as you would just need more and a little bit more development of the faction, that there's tons of really cool things you can do with that. [SPEAKER_00]: And when you brought this up as an idea and I got really excited about it because I started putting down, well, what would the faction rules be?

8:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Because any game that you're playing, you want your faction to be much, much different than another faction. [SPEAKER_00]: For instance, if I'm playing on-clave, I don't want it to be the same thing as the brotherhood, even though we're going to have a lot of crossover units. [SPEAKER_02]: Right, which happens in 40K because you have many different units that are, you know, impureum or, you know, armies of man and that kind of thing, but they are distinctly different from each other because of the selection of different types of units or even similar looking units have different abilities and they function completely different at times.

8:55 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the thing is to shaft out that over-arking detachment, like what are you playing? [SPEAKER_00]: And you want to have a good rule. [SPEAKER_00]: And the thing is, is that, [SPEAKER_00]: No one wants to feel that they're playing the samey, you know, again, I want to go and claim in Botherhead because a lot of the things would be the same, but you'd have to have it for me, the on-clav would have, [SPEAKER_00]: some more conniving, you know, they'd have things that did interrupt and mess with your opponent because like in 40K for instance, we have detachment rules, you get a specific thing for playing this, whether it's plus to strength, plus the my detachment rule for the game I'm going to be playing is when I charge, I have plus two strength and plus one attack.

9:40 [SPEAKER_00]: That is what they have as their [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what makes them different from anybody else because only those units and only your side is going to have that right and then we have what's called strategy on which you have You're almost any games going to have some sort of cost mechanic is in game you have command points and 40k [SPEAKER_00]: You've got different stuff and we're fair, you know, I actually put it down.

10:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I played a TTS game of it, but a table top simulator. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: But you always have a resource that you're managing. [SPEAKER_00]: We have strategy, we have six strategyms, per army, and you can do special things at certain times. [SPEAKER_00]: So you'd have to have those perfection also.

10:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Just something that makes, hey, I'm gonna spend a token. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna spend a cap, I'm gonna spend whatever you're doing. [SPEAKER_02]: There's something that's going to be important that you can do only a few times when you really need it. [SPEAKER_02]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: And you kind of pull it out.

10:35 [SPEAKER_02]: It's your special thing. [SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of like an ultimate in a video game. [SPEAKER_02]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: It's that thing. [SPEAKER_02]: And it distinctly makes you different from the other side. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's just, you want that because you want everybody to feel like their faction is worthwhile.

10:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is how it's so hard to balance any working. [SPEAKER_00]: It's very, it's very easy when the game master or the game itself if you're playing a, excuse me, in a video game, they can just change, you know, go, they can update all the time. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: When you're playing a war game, if one side's wildly better than the other, all of a sudden it doesn't feel good even though you have your feel for your particular faction.

11:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, so there's a symmetrical too. [SPEAKER_02]: It's distinctly different. [SPEAKER_02]: So that is a wonderful overview of a lot of the stuff that we're going to go through. [SPEAKER_02]: But here, let's take a little bit piece by piece. [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of people are familiar with playing Dungeons and Dragons.

11:25 [SPEAKER_02]: When they think role playing or tabletop, they think Dungeons and Dragons. [SPEAKER_02]: And with Dungeons and Dragons, you can either play theater of the mind, or you can pull out your little [SPEAKER_02]: Your little units and put them on a board and move them around. [SPEAKER_02]: There's different ways to engage with that.

11:39 [SPEAKER_02]: But the perspective of D&D is very much you are playing one character. [SPEAKER_02]: You are part of a party of characters. [SPEAKER_02]: And the DM is running the rest of the world. [SPEAKER_02]: And you could have multiple sessions on one session. [SPEAKER_02]: You might be adventuring through a forest to get to a dungeon, and you come across a bunch of monsters, and so maybe there's a lot of fighting.

11:58 [SPEAKER_02]: And another session, you get to the dungeon, it turns out it's a castle, and there's a party, and you have to spend a lot of time communicating with people and figuring out how to solve a puzzle, or, you know, those kinds of things, right? [SPEAKER_00]: I've got to be right in this Saturday and you're telling me right now, I need to change the stuff because the party always changes everything.

12:16 [SPEAKER_00]: The party always changes everything, except that's why we're giving so different. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: Play both of them because it's a different taste for each time. [SPEAKER_02]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: something that's a little bit more war gamey which is like fallout wasteland warfare and that feels a little bit more squad-based limited amount of units like you were describing and it's more about going into a situation and the combat in that specific situation and then we get [SPEAKER_02]: fully into war gaming, which is like 40k, and it's, you've got, you know, a few dozen characters on your side of the board, and the other guy's got a few dozen characters on his side of the board, and you've got all this terrain and buildings and broken down stuff or whatever, and then you take your turn, you move all your little dudes, you do your little attacks, and then I take my turn, I move all my guys, I do all my attacks, we use our special abilities, whatever, and then by the end of it, whoever,

13:08 [SPEAKER_02]: wins, wins the combat. [SPEAKER_02]: There's no greater story. [SPEAKER_02]: There's no individual. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm this commander and these are my forces or anything like that. [SPEAKER_02]: You are the entire army. [SPEAKER_02]: So that is the distinct difference. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's the direction we're taking fallout in for this.

13:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And you have a different, no, that will feel free to take that out. [SPEAKER_00]: Or maybe that if people could know exactly how I talk in a regular basis, what John has to deal with. [SPEAKER_00]: So, one of the big things about that though is you have missions in any game of working, period, it'd be at 40K, be anything I've played, and you can go from one spectrum of specific, just battle to all the way to very scenario driven, and it could be anyways.

13:54 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to, like you have to capture a point on the map, and so now that point is being contested, and there's rules around what you get when you capture it, or when you don't, [SPEAKER_02]: And, right, so that, I don't want to make a difference. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to make a difference.

14:07 [SPEAKER_00]: There's only a tactical, because there's a lot of story that goes behind these facts, and there's so much story that goes from them, and a lot of people can play, can play, that's what's to say anything from what's called narrative to hear, but we're trying to make follow into that. [SPEAKER_00]: And I encourage people to look into that.

14:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I've got asked a lot of times in our discord of putting 40K into the role playing, or putting 40K into more of a, [SPEAKER_00]: skirmish based army yeah the other the other flipping it around the other way yeah so i've had a lot of that so i i like either way on that because i think that follow has a lot of [SPEAKER_00]: potential to be a larger war game, because a lot of things have happened in there.

14:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, just look at, I mean, new Vegas and the battles they fought there. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Those are war game battles. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, imagine, imagine if you could recreate Hoover Dam and the NCR versus the Legion, that would be a really, really cool setup because you have a very specific kind of map.

15:07 [SPEAKER_02]: You've got one army on the other side, one army on the other side, they're distinctly different. [SPEAKER_02]: And you could recreate the battle. [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe the battle plays out a different way in your version. [SPEAKER_02]: That could be really cool. [SPEAKER_00]: I'd say that's one of the biggest things that I was thinking when you asked me about this idea was, man, I'd love to recreate that.

15:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to recreate. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, one of my favorites in fellow three when you're going to the library and they're having a huge battle. [SPEAKER_00]: It's all of, it's just murks and everybody else [SPEAKER_00]: like that is a large battle when you you kind of maneuver your way throughout and of course shouldn't make characteristics you do huge amounts of damage but the uh you know there's a huge battle going on and you're just kind of part of it and they have all these things over on the side I'd love to see that [SPEAKER_00]: the what your the board you're playing on makes a huge difference and in that and I'd love to see that and make each one of the factions themselves I mean think about just raiders themselves that's a wild faction and they have so there's a ton of them too it's it would be a huge faction right well in in my mind there's a lot of stuff that goes in so every time you play a game

16:27 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to have, if you and I are going to play, say we're going to, I'll do 40k, we play 2,000 points. [SPEAKER_00]: So every union has to have a cost. [SPEAKER_00]: When I think raiders, I think raiders would be a horde army. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you have a hundred and a thousand plus on the more.

16:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Each union is really, really small in the sense of cost, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Because it's easy to shoot a raider in the head and you just lose them, right? [SPEAKER_02]: But it's going to be a [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're going to have like a ton of them on the board and I like that quite a bit and flip that with, you know, other armies There's just not going to be a ton of say super-means on the board Because of the fact that they're individually powerful, so you have to go right how much is a million.

17:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right Yeah, when you're thinking about because it like in 40k friends even in [SPEAKER_00]: warfare. [SPEAKER_00]: The, you know, the waste of the warfare, they have, you know, stats for how they're wounding stuff and who's tougher and what, you know, how much damage you can take.

17:30 [SPEAKER_00]: For instance, a raider would probably have one wound. [SPEAKER_00]: So if he, you know, gets hit and he gets wounded, he's probably gone. [SPEAKER_00]: It was a super minute in what? [SPEAKER_00]: 10, 12, maybe, you know, maybe more wounds on the table, because he can be shot multiple times, but then you have to ask how, one of these worth points [SPEAKER_00]: How many Raiders does equals one super minute?

17:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah [SPEAKER_02]: Let's do this in order, so our audience knows where we are.

18:20 [SPEAKER_02]: So, okay, let's start with the Brotherhood of Steel. [SPEAKER_02]: Clearly, this would be in my mind and feel free to correct me if you have other ideas on this. [SPEAKER_02]: It would be less units, but more powerful units. [SPEAKER_02]: you would have everything from your grunt soldiers, you know, your squires, your individual, you know, less armored individuals who are kind of your support I would I would set up and and maybe just, you know, lay down some cover fire and that sort of thing.

18:45 [SPEAKER_02]: But then you would have your power armor soldiers. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you put the pallet in the stuff on the board, you know, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Those are fantastic on that. [SPEAKER_00]: And I love that for, you know, I'll do it. [SPEAKER_00]: It's they use a lot more dice and waste the warfare, but like in 40k, for instance, we use six sides.

19:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So you, you have a hit. [SPEAKER_00]: You have to hit. [SPEAKER_00]: You have to wound. [SPEAKER_00]: They get an armor save when I think of the brotherhood. [SPEAKER_00]: They would have a great armor save. [SPEAKER_00]: For instance, if you're doing these sixes in 40k, they would definitely have a 2 plus save, which means I only have to roll a 2 on the die.

19:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you have modifications for, you know, what I got shot with, because it makes a big difference if you got sharing with small arms versus an RPG version. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: Take a few people that super view and pulls that mini gun out. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to have less, you know, less chance to save.

19:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: But that individual, super tough, very hard to wound and really great save is what I would think of the Brotherhood of Steel, just a lot of not very many models, but very, very durable type models. [SPEAKER_00]: Brother to steal, guys that really have a great save when they get shot, they have a good chance to just not take that damage, and then you compare and contrast that to super mutants also in army that would have not that many models, but super mutants would have just more wounds and toughness where the brotherhood might only have a couple wounds per guy.

20:13 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't get wounded very much because of the excellence of their power armory, you know, depending on what style of power armor they're in too, right, but like super minutes might just go, hey, you know, I've taken 10 wounds and I'm still not dead because I'm a super mutant and or it Forty-key, for instance, we have a mechanic called feel no pain if you fail to save [SPEAKER_00]: You have a on a specific diro, you can just ignore some of the wounds, super mutants that have something of that nature where they just keep coming, no matter how much damage they have.

20:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Similar in the fact that there's not that many models on the board, though, 100% I agree that it would be a low model count, but then you have to have a wildly different way that they play. [SPEAKER_00]: as far as how they do that. [SPEAKER_00]: The other thing is is I don't want to be in melee combat with a super beat me there.

21:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: When they can even pick you up and throw you if you're just like a regular person, you know, that kind of thing. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, yeah, it is. [SPEAKER_00]: Think about what you're playing here. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, no, no, no, you're getting too close.

21:16 [SPEAKER_00]: They over here. [SPEAKER_00]: I've got to put some more vats on you. [SPEAKER_00]: There's more headshots in your future. [SPEAKER_00]: Get away from me. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, don't hit me with a super sledge. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, yes. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so much. [SPEAKER_02]: I would also imagine that the brotherhood could potentially have jet packs on their power armor troopers or have vertebrates.

21:33 [SPEAKER_02]: So in some ways, they could be more mobile. [SPEAKER_02]: So a super mutant probably would travel further than a regular person because they're bigger. [SPEAKER_02]: They take longer strides. [SPEAKER_02]: But then if you bring a verteburden, you could fly across the map and drop soldiers off on another another location.

21:48 [SPEAKER_00]: 100% and they've got different just vehicles themselves depending on, you know, what aim you're talking about at that point in time, you know, they've got different mobile aircraft vehicles and you could have those have stats in themselves if you want them on the table so you could get your guys out, you could have firing decks, yeah, where they could shoot out, right?

22:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's a lot of that, I mean, that's it. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you got a bunch of troops on the verteboard and somebody takes down the verteboard and all the troops die with it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I like that quite a bit on that because there's, there's just a lot of you always have to have a bonus and a negative on things, you know, what is the, you know, I have a, I have super tough guys.

22:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, but there's not very many of them. [SPEAKER_00]: I have super durable guys, but they have a bad save. [SPEAKER_00]: So if you just shot, hey, maybe the next detachment we talk about Raiders. [SPEAKER_00]: Raiders might individually get murdered by supergames sure. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but if you have and you've watched this in the game And even the the the real play game and Waceland Worfrey stuff like that if you just get a ton of Raiders [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you can take down the Superbeading because he just gets death by a thousand cuts, right?

23:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And I love the idea of that. [SPEAKER_00]: And also, you look at the skill levels. [SPEAKER_00]: What does it take to hit? [SPEAKER_00]: You know, what am I rolling on a D6, a D12, a D20? [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, if I'm looking at, you know, a brother to steal, maybe he hits on a three. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe a reader hits on a four or five, at least, you know, he's this difference in skills a lot.

23:22 [SPEAKER_02]: So you have to, you know, yeah, he's less officially trained and more just like, you know, live in by the, by his grit, the guy wearing the leather vest. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, with the weird goggles. [SPEAKER_00]: Also, why are the raiders always wearing the weirdest clad? [SPEAKER_02]: Right, right?

23:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Plasses. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because they're just putting together whatever they can get. [SPEAKER_02]: And they all, they all just love the Mad Max movies. [SPEAKER_02]: So I would also imagine. [SPEAKER_02]: So let's move in from Brotherhood and Superman. [SPEAKER_02]: So well, Superman's the other thing I would add in is like a behemoth unit.

23:55 [SPEAKER_02]: You could have, you know, [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe one behemoth on the board, or maybe that's a special event where the behemoth comes out. [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe there's some sort of mutation thing that happens, where all of a sudden they Unique it's stronger or bigger, something like that. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a, you, you, you, you're, you're, you're, you're.

24:13 [SPEAKER_00]: That's how you make your f- your factions more fleshed out too, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Take them larger because you need more units. [SPEAKER_00]: You need more things on the board. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, ways to more fair, it's a very small game, you know, it's very small units.

24:24 [SPEAKER_00]: But if you're want to make it a larger award game, these bigger battles. [SPEAKER_00]: you need to have the difference between some of these, what type of super-means do you have, what type of brother to steal armors out there, right? [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and they would have of course different costs on that, but I really would love to see like the bigger we have the behemoths on the board, but you also have a lot of different super-means that you've seen in the game themselves.

24:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Some of them are more armored or you could have different, I mean, there's West Coast and East Coast Super Mutants. [SPEAKER_02]: There are differences between the two. [SPEAKER_02]: You could have some of them have dogs with them. [SPEAKER_02]: You could have a variety of different ways to set that up.

25:01 [SPEAKER_02]: But I had another idea for Raiders as you were talking about it. [SPEAKER_02]: They are all drugged up. [SPEAKER_02]: So their thing would be like they inject themselves with jet or something and all of stuff and they become more deadly, but they're also maybe there's drawbacks to that too because they're on freaking drugs, you know, like, you know, I have I love that because we have [SPEAKER_00]: mechanic in forty key for instance that you could definitely use that called hazardous your role you get all extra tax and stuff or you get a better gun that but it's dangerous so at the end of the turn air you get you have to roll for every guy for a forty key for instance it would be hazardous uh... we wrote these sixes on a one you would take damage yeah you like they can overdose

25:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, yeah, and I love the idea of that because you just have readers hopped up on jet running at you That you know, they're taking tons of buff out, you know, they're they're they're rocket in right and but yeah, but there's There is danger to that. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I love that in the game because you have high risk high reward.

26:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, my guys could just die from this You know, but I get extra movement extra attacks and stuff like that. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that the reader faction [SPEAKER_00]: I'm also known to be the guy that plays a ton of trash in any word game, so that makes me super happy anyway. [SPEAKER_00]: I would love to just put a bunch of nonsense on the board with all these crazy raiders coming at you with everything that they picked up from the wastelands and just attacking you with [SPEAKER_02]: It's cobbled together vehicles.

26:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I know one of the running jokes is the Bethesda Games don't have cars in them, but you could have, you know, motorcycles or cars. [SPEAKER_02]: So again, the Mad Max kind of thing and have them all on these, you know, piece together pieces. [SPEAKER_00]: That is one thing that I really want in the game that they don't have in the game.

26:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'd love to see it on the work game and people would say that there isn't any, but, man, I'd love to have vehicles. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you could drive a car and fall out too. [SPEAKER_02]: That was a thing. [SPEAKER_02]: So, you did drive a car and fall out too. [SPEAKER_00]: It was a thing.

27:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's how you got from point A to point B. Right. [SPEAKER_02]: So, okay. [SPEAKER_02]: So we got Raiders, we got Brotherhood, we've got Super Mutants. [SPEAKER_02]: You said earlier, the Enclave, and I agree with this. [SPEAKER_02]: The Enclave and the Brotherhood would be similar.

27:12 [SPEAKER_02]: You'd have similar powerful armored kinds of characters. [SPEAKER_02]: But I like the idea about having a little bit more subterfuge on the Enclave side. [SPEAKER_02]: You could have characters that can communicate at a distance that know things that other characters don't. [SPEAKER_02]: Do you have any other [SPEAKER_00]: I would thought about this a lot.

27:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that one of the big things on any board game is moving outside of the movement phase, being able to reactively remove or reactively move, being able to redeploy, being able to, what it calls it 40K for instance, and not a case called, up you downy, picking a unit up and then being able to put it down in another [SPEAKER_00]: that is the kind of thing that I think on Clay could do and you could just say that they bring in vertebrates and stuff like that.

27:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I pick up a unit and put it somewhere on the other side of the board. [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe they don't have as many units and they'd be very similar to the brotherhood, but they have more movement shenanigans that are on the board. [SPEAKER_00]: I like that a lot and or just you come in with reserves later on and they can come in [SPEAKER_00]: surgical strikes because the uncleus just constantly doing say whatever it is underhand of the uncleus doing it right right maybe maybe also uh... it can be just as movement but maybe you could uh... hinder your opponents movement on that you were doing something to uh... cut them down i like the idea of that a lot because the uncleus has more information than it everybody else as far as what's going on and doesn't help with anything

28:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's always, I would actually say that they would hinder your opponent more so than move them. [SPEAKER_02]: I like that, I like the idea of like I bought scouts. [SPEAKER_02]: You could put on the battlefield that would give you buffs in certain areas because they know more or stealth boys, the use of stealth boys or the fact that maybe they have accumulated, I don't know, Chinese stealth suit tech and they're using that to their advantages.

29:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, so I think that plays that really well for the on-clave. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about, the NCR I feel like is probably the most normal feeling of the, of the, of the, I, I like the NCR and the fact that you make them the base, like, for example, 40k, right, space marine, regular space marines, the, the ultramarines stuff are kind of the, the default, like, this is what the game's kind of based on.

29:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: I see the NCR as that and you're looking at follow for a larger work game. [SPEAKER_00]: This has a good amount of different units, but they don't have super crazy rules. [SPEAKER_00]: They have something that someone could pick up and start playing fairly good equipment.

29:50 [SPEAKER_02]: They're they're fairly well trained. [SPEAKER_02]: They're all. [SPEAKER_02]: regular people for the most part, or non-ferral ghouls, they might have some slightly better cobbled together tech or armor that they got from other places, but for the most part, they're kind of the milk toast option, and they're effective when played correctly, but they're not as flashy as some of the other groups.

30:14 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the army that you take to get into the game. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just bad. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's still the most popular thing in 40K, for instance, is regular rains on that. [SPEAKER_00]: But like you have to have the baseline of the game, and I think NCR is that. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that they'd be great on it.

30:30 [SPEAKER_00]: You could also have things like the NCR could have fortifications and things that they set up, because in the game they actually have lots of different forward deploying type fortified spots. [SPEAKER_00]: They have FBs that basically they put up. [SPEAKER_00]: I would I would love that they I can see and see are having the the very the largest amount of different types of units Because they also have a lot of characters.

30:55 [SPEAKER_02]: So right. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and so how would you contrast the NCR with the Legion because I feel like the Legion would [SPEAKER_02]: Even though they visually would be very different, you would have, again, a lot of trained soldiers with fairly good equipments, a lot of regular human type units, but they are not the same as the NCR.

31:14 [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: And I would do that as far as... [SPEAKER_00]: it goes into a lot of the character of the army. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that you have different characters with different abilities that lead stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: So they'd be very similar and set up and like things that are taken, but you'd have different ways that they play different bonuses.

31:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd like to see a lot of character stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, you have different of the Caesar's top guys rocking in, they give them wildly different abilities for very similar units, you know, obviously they have [SPEAKER_00]: They call them something different, but like they're similar because they have a lot of just humans, you know, yeah, but I think that you'd have a lot depending on who gets put in for special rules on that yeah like ideological buffs like they really believe in what they're doing even though they're absolutely terrible [SPEAKER_00]: It's a big thing on that because we have a lot of games have that, you know, depending on here led by that unit would have leaders that are really give them buffs so the leadership of the unit gets changed depending on who you put in and they'd have a I think they'd have a lot of different people leading each individual

32:24 [SPEAKER_00]: unit of by vernacular died. [SPEAKER_00]: You have a lot of different units or different unit leaders that had they gave the units different abilities. [SPEAKER_00]: It was what I would think in the Legion itself. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that gave us a lot of flavor for that. [SPEAKER_02]: And then we go to the Institute, go and follow out four, and the Institute, you mentioned the ability to, like, up, up, and down.

32:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I said, that's what I was thinking about. [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, the on-clave should probably just hinder people, because I was thinking later, I'm like, Oh, crap, I didn't talk about the Institute yet. [SPEAKER_00]: The Institute should have. [SPEAKER_00]: the ability to dump you down to be anywhere they want there are the only people with teleport technology and stuff you know they can they have they also I would love to see the institute and I don't know how you would balance this but we used to have this a long time ago like 20 years ago [SPEAKER_00]: the ability to take over and infiltrate the other side because you can do that.

33:22 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, you just start on the other side of the board and you could pop up in the middle of the game inside your opponents, deploy them in the zone or you know, you could do a lot of the nonsense. [SPEAKER_00]: And that would be an army. [SPEAKER_00]: Institute would be the army that everybody hates, but also it's hard to play because you'd have a lot of things that are very, very fragile with grand-wild special rules, crazy movement, but you wouldn't have that much stuff.

33:49 [SPEAKER_00]: You'd have limited models that had a lot of abilities, but weren't as tough as power armor, and they weren't as tough as a super mutant, so you'd have the leverage, the fact that you have better movement and that you have different special powers [SPEAKER_00]: I play one of the many armies I play in 40k kind of does that sound like that's right up my Right jam on the trolley more trolley type of army Wait, you make them fragile, but like their glass cannons because they have all this movement and they've got this power and they can do stuff [SPEAKER_02]: weapons and they got some, you know, like the sense that the, you know, the later iterations of synths become a little bit more, well, I guess they become more human, but the early ones are more terminators.

34:33 [SPEAKER_02]: And then, but then you, like, to your idea, if you were playing, say, NCR versus Institute, and there's much a regular humans on the NCR side, having the ability to just kind of a very small chance, but like one of their units is actually Institute and all of a sudden, it swapsides. [SPEAKER_00]: I love the idea of that and the thing is that you could do a bunch of shenanigans, but also you know, if you're standing next to a pallet in or you're standing next to a superbeaded, well, he's still going to kill you.

35:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Even though you got, you know, this list of special rules that you have for your unit in the end, you know, a guy could just punch you in the head. [SPEAKER_00]: just right. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's why I really think that that would be a great faction in a war game because it would have, it would be very frustrating to play with and against because the skill caps very high but also the the risks are the punishment for not being very caught working.

35:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So the army that I think would be the most fun would be something like feral ghouls and monsters. [SPEAKER_02]: And it would be like a poor type army, you know, something, something where you have a variety of different kinds of units and they can I don't know how you would set it up because maybe they're all unified by some sort of bigger monster of some sort.

35:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Like just you could do it depending on the boards and stuff like that because they had monster armies before and a lot of different games on this. [SPEAKER_00]: And you just kind of go, they're just trying to end you because you showed up here. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: And I like the idea of maybe even the Ferrell rules, getting more powerful during the battle, depending on if they're in a rainy season.

36:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: In map locations, like if there's in radiated lake, all of the ghouls run into the lake, and now they're glowing ones, and they've now leveled up. [SPEAKER_02]: Or maybe maybe they could hide units, maybe there are mirror lurks in the lake, but the other team doesn't know that at the beginning.

36:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's so many on that. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my, I'm pretty sure that's all right. [SPEAKER_02]: I was getting to imagine a like a myrlic queen busting out of a lake in the middle of the map. [SPEAKER_02]: And all of a sudden you're like, oh my god, what is that was in there? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's a ton of that, you know, and there's a ton of just monsters that you could pull out.

36:50 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a huge amount of different monsters, I mean, just even for anything like, hey, you know, over here I bought a ton of rat scorpions, you know, yeah, anything. [SPEAKER_00]: I, that would be a great army because it also have, [SPEAKER_00]: It could either be a huge horde, or it could be some of these giant monsters, and you could choose, which, you know, again, you have a point selection of maybe this one's, you know, 300 points, and a bunch of rats, scorpions, or 3 points of peace kind of thing, and you know, you could bring a million of this, or you could bring a couple of it, or you could mix a match.

37:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that it makes for a very, I don't like I said with raiders on that. [SPEAKER_00]: You have so much mix of what are they bringing? [SPEAKER_00]: Another thing going back a little bit for the Raiders on that is just them kind of finding Because think about how often you're in the game and Raiders just have something Yeah, that they found.

37:41 [SPEAKER_02]: I'd love that right before they were they pick up weapons that other characters drop When all of a sudden become more powerful. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and with the pharaoh goes to the monsters kind of army You you have kind of an endless supply of what you're you know what you're doing on that Are you doing a bunch of guys running at me and fall hardware like yeah?

37:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, is it like zombie apocalypse, or is it, you know, like, follow 76 brought in cryptids. [SPEAKER_02]: So maybe they're special thing is that at some point, they get to leverage all a cryptid onto the map somewhere. [SPEAKER_02]: All of a sudden, a mothman just drops in.

38:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And they could be another reason why they're actually there, though, they're getting control. [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: So like, I, that faction has all of the possibilities. [SPEAKER_00]: That could be multiple factions and [SPEAKER_00]: you know what we do in 40 kids we have detachments inside the faction so you have an overarching faction and then you have somewhere between 4 and 6 detachments of that so so there's a variety yeah right I like I that one's excited I'd love to play that right I would have but I'll make that happen right now yeah that's a large board of that [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so that's most of the ones that come to mind.

38:51 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure you could put together, like, I don't know, a house faction. [SPEAKER_02]: It's somehow, um, it doesn't, that doesn't stand out. [SPEAKER_00]: He's going to yell at us for never talking about like the minute manner anything else. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you could do the minute man, but like a lot of that stuff.

39:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, like, NCR in minute man, I feel like would be part of the same. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they would have been choice out of his subgroups. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, yes, anybody who's going to yell at this speaker, like, yeah, well, the NCR in the minimum don't know each other. [SPEAKER_02]: They're on different sides of the map.

39:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely, I get it. [SPEAKER_02]: But like regular, like the main thing would be like regular human army. [SPEAKER_02]: And these would be variations on regular human. [SPEAKER_02]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: So that's where I would put something like the minute men. [SPEAKER_02]: And you could, I mean, you could probably spend another hour going through all the different potential factions or sub-factions and different types of equipment that they could use and different kinds of monsters that you put together that would make sense in a group.

39:44 [SPEAKER_02]: But that's part of the fun of this is that, yeah, if you had all of these options and you were working on, well, this is the army I want to make, you would be able to cater that to exactly what you wanted to do. [SPEAKER_02]: You could go really, really into subtlety and, [SPEAKER_02]: like that side of the on-cliffe, but maybe you go into more of the just highly equipped power armor side of the on-cliffe.

40:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you just go, I only had power armor and vertebrates coming out of you. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you could make this, and this is already what we do in Big War gaming in 40K is that you see some people show up with the exact same, I'll give an example of armies I'll see next weekend in the bait ultramarines or the the marines, the the basic grade on that.

40:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Ultramarine sometimes show up with all vehicles, it's all tanks and big stuff, and other times you see them playing almost all guys in the tree, and stuff coming around soldiers. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's the same thing, but that's a different detachment inside your different armies. [SPEAKER_00]: You can do the same thing inside the Enclave.

40:46 [SPEAKER_00]: You could have those different type things. [SPEAKER_00]: Inside the Monsters and Ghouls Army, you could have, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: some people just bring a million little guys, some people bring big things, you know, that's the joy of making it army. [SPEAKER_00]: I get pretty nerded out when I think about just making I love making armies, I think about that, right?

41:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, with the brotherhood, you could have different groups of the brotherhood. [SPEAKER_02]: You could have, you could have, you could have, like, there's all sorts of varieties. [SPEAKER_02]: You could have people who have a piece together, brotherhood equipment, and are [SPEAKER_00]: quite a bit, right?

41:24 [SPEAKER_02]: You can have factions of offshoots, brotherhood offshoots, you can have the west coast brother, you can have the east coast brother, so you have all these different groups, right? [SPEAKER_02]: So I think that lends itself to all the flexibility that makes that fun, but I think another piece of this, like you said, are the maps, the settings.

41:42 [SPEAKER_02]: having something like a broken-down DC area with all the busted buildings and maybe maybe you're fighting around the Washington Monument or something like that versus a West Coast setting that is mostly, I don't know, you could do New Vegas. [SPEAKER_02]: You could do a fight on the strip for some reason, somebody invaded the strip and there's a fight on the strip or the dam or just out in the desert somewhere with all sorts of weird radiation [SPEAKER_00]: Are any settings, do any settings come to mind for you that when some of the settings are setting wise, one of the things is I love to hit it in for me and follow you have to have settings mad, the maps that you're playing on the settings that you're playing on, have to have uniqueness and danger.

42:29 [SPEAKER_00]: because that's there has to be some ways you know you'd be at pools of radiation be it other things could possibly attack you if you get you know inside them and they give you cover but you you might get attacked by other creatures that are in there. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, houses robots are protecting the strip, and if you get close to the middle of the strip, they attack you and doesn't matter what side you're on.

42:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, exactly, just that, those are the kind of things that I'm looking for if I'm playing a full-out war game, is I want the map itself, the setting itself, to have an impact on what we're playing. [SPEAKER_00]: No matter what, Arby, you're playing. [SPEAKER_00]: So like, things that you're looking at, you know, you come into the Commonwealth, [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's a lot of things that can attack you.

43:12 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a whole bunch of different, you might even get a Mr. Handy might attack you at some point time, but there's a lot of things that are there that they could come after you. [SPEAKER_00]: And the fact is, I like the idea of it being dangerous, and also, [SPEAKER_00]: Is it interactable?

43:28 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if I just dig, you know, minigun fire, is this going to fall down? [SPEAKER_00]: Is it, you know, in fall out? [SPEAKER_00]: There's just so much stuff that like is the terrain could be comes apart of the game on that. [SPEAKER_00]: And I would love to see that. [SPEAKER_00]: And obviously you have the pieces, [SPEAKER_00]: your opponent.

43:46 [SPEAKER_00]: You and your opponent go over what they are. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, don't sprinkle it on them. [SPEAKER_00]: Don't do this game in your house and then tell your friends to come over and let them know halfway through the game, but the entire second floor is going to fall down. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I would love to see the difference in all of those.

44:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, you'd have a lot of, I mean, this is too more difficult play, but you go to Appalachia, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: You have all of the different vertical distances and stuff like that. [SPEAKER_00]: And it would be a different style of play on that. [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

44:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Mountainous. [SPEAKER_02]: area. [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, even the fault 76, map is so big. [SPEAKER_02]: They're all these different sections of the map with different biomes and other things going on there. [SPEAKER_02]: Creatures that might live in the map that aren't controlled by either party, but that, you know, like you get too close to them, that's a problem.

44:34 [SPEAKER_02]: I really want that. [SPEAKER_00]: I just think that you should have the danger of either side. [SPEAKER_00]: maybe you've got great cover but there's also the chance that you know like you're saying the robots to show up and just try to get you know hey you get a great save and you might be very defensive but there's also x amount of chance that hey you got a little too close you know you're gonna you're gonna take some leisure shots now [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I'll send a sheep squatch comes, you know, out of the forest next to you or something.

45:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think all of that makes sense and you could even expand the settings into locations that are discussed in the lore, but we haven't really seen in the games or DLC locations. [SPEAKER_02]: There's all sorts of different ways that you could set that up.

45:14 [SPEAKER_02]: And I would love to hear anybody listening. [SPEAKER_02]: If we haven't, if we've somehow skipped over something that you're like, oh, no, this is absolutely the thing you need to do. [SPEAKER_02]: Comment, let us know. [SPEAKER_02]: But one of the other pieces to this that really pulls it together would be the uniqueness of the rules, the rules.

45:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Not just the uniqueness of the factions and their abilities and how they respond to things, and we've talked about this a little bit. [SPEAKER_02]: The idea that you could have in irradiated lake somewhere [SPEAKER_02]: So, if you are an NCR trooper, maybe that radiation is real bad, but if you are a ghoul, that radiation is real good.

45:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Really good. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's different for different. [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe there's chemical spills. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe there's chemical spills. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe there's FEV chemical vats on one section of the map, and so maybe you want to avoid those.

46:03 [SPEAKER_02]: But are there any other things that you would throw in here that would be particularly fall outy? [SPEAKER_00]: I think that you would actually, I'd like to be able to buy [SPEAKER_00]: Upgrades for the terrain based on what you're playing on. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, for, that would be specific to your faction.

46:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Things just like that, hey, I have a pool. [SPEAKER_00]: But I can put it somewhere on the battlefield, you know, if I'm playing the ghouls. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I could put a fortification. [SPEAKER_00]: I could play, I'm playing, and see, I want to play for a play. [SPEAKER_02]: Or the Legion.

46:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Legion. [SPEAKER_02]: I want some walls that I can hide my guys behind. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to see that in the specific to your faction. [SPEAKER_00]: I just, I love the idea of, because I don't want, if I play Fallout, I don't want it to be faceless nameless soldiers and faceless nameless monsters.

46:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I want it to be ball out soldiers and ball out monsters, so like things of that nature, anything that makes the game feel in the end, I'm still an RPG guy even though I'm a giant. [SPEAKER_00]: Wargamer. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a huge. [SPEAKER_00]: There's a reason that I do a lower cast. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm very into the story and stuff And I wanted to feel that way when you're playing and this is a this would be large battles would be big and the what you wanted to feel like is also battles that change [SPEAKER_00]: the setting almost you know who wins this makes a big difference that the battle the death yeah you know and it completely changes what's going on that's what you want this battle to feel like not just a you know we met and the thing is is that we still were for just a great job of you know doing small little little things but if you're playing a large working I wanted to be those battles that change who's currently

47:49 [SPEAKER_00]: taking control sectors of the area, you know, the DC battles when they were they were going all for all the, the government buildings, this stuff like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Those were huge battles that were really going into who controlled what when the brotherhood came in and the other brotherhood, you know, the brotherhood kind of in trying to kill all the institutes.

48:10 [SPEAKER_00]: It was a battle for who controls [SPEAKER_00]: These are the battles that you would play in a fallout larger war game on that that you want these battles to feel like Okay, this is for the control of the greater DC area. [SPEAKER_00]: This is the control of Vegas. [SPEAKER_00]: This is controlled You know, wherever you're doing you want to make it feel like a big plague And you can have scenarios on that.

48:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, we're we're going in and we're going to [SPEAKER_00]: Who controls what are the stakes right exactly what are the stakes on that like we you want it to feel like it really means not You know, it's just you and dog me just hang out Yeah, which is also cool. [SPEAKER_00]: Which is cool.

49:00 [SPEAKER_00]: All right. [SPEAKER_02]: Like that's a fun that's a fun D&DS kind of role play thing right you sure But we're talking big massive scales with actual real stakes Yeah, I wanted to not just feel like some guys met in a field and fought. [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to be right [SPEAKER_00]: you know, the what happened changes, you know, over the course of it, that's how you want to make your better feel.

49:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, you could do a series of these where then you could revisit the same location with the changes on the map and the team that won the previous fight gets to decide more about what changes on the map and sets up defensive structures and the other tasks to attack them.

49:36 [SPEAKER_02]: you know, that kind of thing. [SPEAKER_02]: That could totally play out. [SPEAKER_02]: But here, I've got two other things I want to cover before we wrap this up. [SPEAKER_02]: I think that we have to incorporate Vault Tech somehow and Vaults. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that they are their own army or faction, but what I do think is that it needs to coincide with my other idea that is a big piece of fallout and it's scavenging.

49:54 [SPEAKER_02]: This idea that there are locations on the map where when you get to them you can scavenge and you have a random chance of finding stuff that might be helpful. [SPEAKER_00]: Whether that's I'm just embarrassed that I didn't even think of the fact that I kept talking about terrain. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you put it on the terrain right then you're like you're right fool.

50:12 [SPEAKER_02]: So let's say let's say you come across a red rocket and you scavenge and you find some Stimpacks and all of a sudden your guys can heal or you find some weapons that are just like maybe somebody stashed in the you know in the basement of the red rocket and so now all of a sudden they get Upgrades to their weapons scavenging is a big part of of fog, but I also think it would be really cool that Vaults exist on the map somewhere [SPEAKER_02]: and either they are obvious or they're not, and scavenging reveals them, and they are an even more random chance thing.

50:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe the vault is full of Pharaoh ghouls, and all of a sudden, Pharaoh ghouls erupt onto the map, and now you gotta deal with them. [SPEAKER_02]: Or maybe there's a whole wealth of things down in that vault and you come back and you are super equipped, and you have major bonuses because you went into that vault.

51:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Then you'd also have to have, [SPEAKER_00]: people in your army that you could pay for, that give you better chances of finding savage goods and vaults and stuff like that. [SPEAKER_00]: They could be very bad at other things. [SPEAKER_02]: Which plays into the brotherhood of the on-clave, who may be better at finding those locations because they want to find the tech.

51:19 [SPEAKER_02]: The brother who wants to find the tech, the on-clave may already have information about where things like that are. [SPEAKER_02]: But then somebody like the Legion doesn't really know, so they don't really have as much of a chance of finding something. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I love everything about that.

51:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sad that you came up with it before I did that. [SPEAKER_00]: If I was editing this out, I would just put my voice over you. [SPEAKER_02]: It's just AI voice changes, I feel like I'm definitely my idea. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a great idea, so yeah, I love it that I was like, hey, you should do all this stuff of the trade and then I skip that and you said that I was like, oh, come on, but yeah, you're better than this.

51:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Right? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, hey, it could play out and all sorts of different ways, then you could have more than one vault on a map if you wanted to. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know that the vault tech necessarily makes sense for an army. [SPEAKER_02]: I think that that part doesn't work.

52:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I like the idea the right way. [SPEAKER_00]: The thing is, is they've never been in Army really. [SPEAKER_02]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: You should get bonuses for it. [SPEAKER_00]: I do like the random aspect, but I do think that, and that was one of the things I was saying when we first started about the fallout terrain, the setting, is...

52:25 [SPEAKER_00]: It needs to feel ball locked, you know, it has to have the, it I would love to have bonuses for faults. [SPEAKER_00]: You definitely have to have scavenge pieces. [SPEAKER_00]: When you first go into a piece of terrain, there should be a chance that there is something there, whether it's bad, whether it's good, whether it's anything.

52:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I love that idea. [SPEAKER_00]: on that you just and you can have a chart of it, you know I mean then again you can have bonuses depending on what faction you are again the online much better at knowing where things are hey Raiders have a what in 20 chance finding something you know yeah they don't know where anything they're all doped up and they don't know what's going on but certainly they can be standing in it they don't know [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but maybe supermines find things that other people can't use like, oh, you found the fender of a car and like an NCR It's gonna be like, well, I don't know what I'm gonna do with that.

53:13 [SPEAKER_02]: I've been the middle of that old fender of a car. [SPEAKER_02]: But the supermine picks it up and now it's his melee weapon. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like, okay, cool. [SPEAKER_02]: That works differently for that faction as well. [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe maybe the monsters just ignore and don't scavenge at all.

53:25 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's just off the table for them. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you think it also just not get affected by bad the bad things. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you come across monsters in a forest and they leave you alone because Yeah, because you're a monster. [SPEAKER_02]: Because you're a monster.

53:38 [SPEAKER_02]: You don't care. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Man, you could balance this out all sorts of rules. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so now that we've brainstormed this up, how do we contact modifius and say, hey, let's expand wasteland warfare into a massive warfare type game with all of our new ideas and then you pay us lots of money.

53:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I would love that. [SPEAKER_00]: Listen to this and message us, we will help you make this a giant war game. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, that would be awesome and then we'd have to set up some tournaments and then everybody listening to this episode can get their own armies and we can we can set up a big maybe we can have like a fallout warfare convention every year where everybody comes and brings their armies and we see what happens that would be a ton of fun.

54:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I love it. [SPEAKER_00]: I love the idea of this. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm already excited for this make-belief thing we talked about. [SPEAKER_00]: I'll be juiced about this for the rest of the day. [SPEAKER_02]: Awesome. [SPEAKER_02]: Awesome. [SPEAKER_02]: Any final ideas? [SPEAKER_02]: Anything else to throw in there before we wrap this up?

54:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Balance. [SPEAKER_00]: That's probably where they haven't done it already. [SPEAKER_00]: It's very hard to balance all the factions. [SPEAKER_00]: We said, on a large, it's very easy to balance. [SPEAKER_00]: individual the right now they're doing individual activations when you're talking a huge armies it's very tough to make sure that everybody's army is playable yeah well you just use the 40k rules and just replace unit for unit [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure they I'm sure games workshop with love that.

55:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was just want to say games works up. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so sorry. [SPEAKER_00]: Don't sense it. [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. [SPEAKER_02]: Don't do that. [SPEAKER_02]: Don't do that. [SPEAKER_02]: That's about it. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Make your own stuff.

55:11 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you so much Brad. [SPEAKER_02]: This has been super fun. [SPEAKER_02]: I knew this would be a fun conversation to bring you in on. [SPEAKER_02]: And on the show, I like to, I love to talk about lore and established stuff, but I always love thinking outside the box a little bit because Fallout works in so many ways that we haven't seen yet, different types of games and all sorts of stuff.

55:27 [SPEAKER_02]: So who knows, maybe we'll get more and more developed versions of different kinds of ways to play Fallout including a war game in the future. [SPEAKER_02]: So that would be cool. [SPEAKER_02]: But hey, how do people find your stuff? [SPEAKER_02]: Where do they go for more, more Brad? [SPEAKER_00]: 40klorcast.com has the links to pretty much everything I'm doing.

55:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So just go there, find me, you've got the history of 40k, you've got two men in a handle there, I'm going to be throwing up soon. [SPEAKER_00]: I and I'm in a lot of guest host and a lot of 40k things, but that is main thing. [SPEAKER_00]: Just go to the 40klorcast.com. [SPEAKER_02]: Awesome.

56:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Awesome. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you so much for taking the time and appreciate having me. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, good luck with the shows and I'll see. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure I'll see you around pretty soon. [SPEAKER_02]: All right, thanks again to Brad for joining me. [SPEAKER_02]: We've got to go over our new patrons.

56:23 [SPEAKER_02]: We've got new people who signed up. [SPEAKER_02]: Ben from the mountains, sea combat six, and a lidon bow, welcome to the Patreon. [SPEAKER_02]: So glad that you're here. [SPEAKER_02]: If you'd like to get ad free episodes, or join us for Patreon chats, or t-shirts, and stickers, all sorts of fun stuff, head over to patreon.com slash fault, Lord Cast.

56:39 [SPEAKER_02]: And you could also sign up as a centribot, like Germinator, who gets a shout out every week. [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, Germinator. [SPEAKER_02]: Plus, we've got some new reviews on Apple Podcasts in the U.S. [SPEAKER_02]: If you leave a 5 star review, I will read it out on a future episode.

56:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Like this one from Ben from the mountains, who just joined us on the Patreon, he says, Love it, 5 stars. [SPEAKER_02]: I drive all day for work, going all through North Carolina, and I'm constantly trying to find podcasts to get into. [SPEAKER_02]: This show has had me stuck for the last two weeks, informative, nostalgic, and more than anything entertaining.

57:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks so much Ben, and then this one from The Bearded PR, who says, thank you. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm one of those perfectionists. [SPEAKER_02]: I collect everything. [SPEAKER_02]: I have 100% the games, and I thought I knew everything. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you proved me wrong, LOL. [SPEAKER_02]: I live the podcast, and binge it in a month.

57:24 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm finally caught up, love to listening to your predictions on things that came out already for me and somewhere close, and some would have been better than what actually happened. [SPEAKER_02]: I do have a suggestion for a new segment, rare items and why they're rare. [SPEAKER_02]: I did say I'm a collector, but I never could find why certain things are so rare, like clothing or plans that have a .002% drop rate.

57:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Is there a lore behind it or just a dev choice to give us those white whales? [SPEAKER_02]: But thank you for sticking in there and giving us so much. [SPEAKER_02]: I know you had to be hard when back in the beginning we appreciate you. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you so much. [SPEAKER_02]: And [SPEAKER_02]: I think your gut is probably right about a lot of those like 0.00 to 2% drop rate items and it's more for the gamification of stuff and less about how rare they would actually be in the world, although some of them might actually be that rare, but that's interesting.

58:11 [SPEAKER_02]: It would be worth diving in there and seeing if those things actually do line up or which ones do line up. [SPEAKER_02]: That would be really cool. [SPEAKER_02]: So thank you so much. [SPEAKER_02]: The bearded and Ben from Mountains and everyone else who helps support the show and shares it with your friends and all of that stuff.

58:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for [SPEAKER_02]: So if you're weak, and until next time, if you come up with other really cool, war-gaming ideas, hit us up, comments, or join the Discord, and let us know your thoughts, because it'll be really fun to put together, even, I don't know, maybe there's a way to 3D print our own models or something, or use them with Diffius models, and come up with their own rule sets.

58:46 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, that'd be kind of cool. [SPEAKER_02]: So let me know what you think, and until next time, stay safe in the wasteland. [SPEAKER_02]: I'll see you then. [SPEAKER_02]: To plug into everything else we're doing, check out robotsradio.net, reach out to me on Twitter at robots underscore radio, check out the robots radio rocket club where you can join me and a bunch of our other creators creating your podcast starting a new podcast or helping your current podcast grow.

59:14 [SPEAKER_02]: There's more information about that on RobotsReady.net as well, and you can always talk with us and the entire community over 2,000 people on the RobotsReady Discord. [SPEAKER_02]: Come join us. [SPEAKER_02]: We'd love to chat with you. [SPEAKER_02]: See you guys next time.