393: Fallout Fan Film "Kill 'em Kindly" Interview w/ Producer Sam Conde

[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Fallout lorecast. [SPEAKER_02]: The podcast that explores the boundaries of our knowledge about the world of Fallout. [SPEAKER_02]: Wastelanders and Vaultwellers, welcome back to the Fallout lore cast. [SPEAKER_02]: I have a very special episode for you this week, right on the heels of wrapping up the Fallout TV show.

[SPEAKER_02]: It actually turns out that this works out really well because we've been discussing for like the last two plus months, a full production TV show and everything that goes into that. [SPEAKER_02]: And we are following that up with a conversation with a filmmaker [SPEAKER_02]: who makes short films and works on projects similar to what Amazon did with Fallout, but with a much, I would assume much lower budget, but with equal or maybe even more passion for the Fallout universe, welcome to the show Sam Konday from Killem Kindly.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sam, welcome. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so excited to get into this with you. [SPEAKER_02]: How are you doing? [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm really excited too. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just excited to talk about the project with some people who really know fall out. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, okay, so fan films and short films and these kinds of projects every so often, something like this pops up on YouTube and it gets a lot of buzz and a lot of people tune in and they check out things. [SPEAKER_02]: And some of them over the years have been very impressive. [SPEAKER_02]: And I've seen a little bit of some of the stuff that you and some people that you work with have done in other [SPEAKER_02]: other IPs not just fallout and it's all it's top to your stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's very very cool. [SPEAKER_02]: I get the sense that you guys really know what you're doing here. [SPEAKER_02]: Can you give me and our audience a little bit of a background about what you've worked on before and then where things are going with this fallout project? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I've been diving into the world of film pretty recently. [SPEAKER_00]: I've worked on projects like SCP Black Meridian, another short film called Vestage and other people in the group have also worked on projects like SCP Overlord, which I think is like one of the most well-known in the SCP universe right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then also stalker shadow of the zone. [SPEAKER_00]: So with kind of been really focused [SPEAKER_00]: the fan service type, but also for us, a lot of the group is very interested in making action. [SPEAKER_00]: So we kind of wanted to take two things out. [SPEAKER_00]: We're all very passionate about and smoosh them together and see what other people think about them.

[SPEAKER_00]: But [SPEAKER_00]: I myself, I'm a producer, also assistant director, so I do a lot of the logistic work, our director, Corey Haynes, director, actor, writer, jack of all trades, kinds of person, and then we've got some other stellar casting crew members who just kind of are all nerdy, which is like a fun part, but very, very good at what they do individually.

[SPEAKER_02]: easier when everybody loves the thing you're working on, you know, like I've talked about this on the show many times. [SPEAKER_02]: I've been doing this full time for five plus years now, but it's always so much more, I mean, it's still work, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Like I probably work harder at this than I do a lot of jobs that I've had in the past, but the fact that I get to work [SPEAKER_02]: not only interview people like you who are big fans of fallout like I am, but also be part of the community and people on the discord and our patrons and other creators who end up on the show every so often.

[SPEAKER_02]: It just makes the work so much more enjoyable. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: And I kind of feel like you put even more effort into it when it's something you're passionate about. [SPEAKER_00]: You want to put out the best [SPEAKER_02]: Right, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: It's, um, yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that shows through in video game developments and in all sorts of art firm forms from film to music and all sorts of things. [SPEAKER_02]: When you actually care about the product, you're creating something that's even more enjoyable for other people who would also enjoy it rather than just being a machine that turns out content or TV show episodes or whatever.

[SPEAKER_02]: But taking a look at some of the other projects that you and your team have worked on it looks like you know your stuff when it comes to combat situations and things like that and I can't wait to see what you do and put your own spin on fallout, maybe that's and some of these other things.

[SPEAKER_02]: But before we get into some of that stuff, I really am interested in this world, so that, so... [SPEAKER_02]: the the movie I guess we should we call them a short film is movie does movie even work for this it's a short film but movie words okay so for your movie because this will be fairly like some of the other projects are like an hour long so it's basically like a short movie but so killing kindly is inspired by fallout [SPEAKER_02]: but in a very specific way, in fact you shared with me some of your world-building notes about it taking place in Oklahoma and there's a vaults and there's even a Ken that's involved with it and you've got a little bit of the background for what the world might be like in Oklahoma.

[SPEAKER_02]: Since we haven't seen that specifically in any of the games or the TV show, can you fill us in on some of those details because it all seems very well thought out. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_00]: First off, I definitely thought a lot about it. [SPEAKER_00]: But also, I think I'll start with a quick premise of the film.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't give away too much right. [SPEAKER_00]: I want everybody to want it. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, sure, sure. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, what's the premise? [SPEAKER_02]: What's the hook? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so we follow a woman who's cast out of her vault. [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, there's just been a crazy crew and any overseer sympathizers were cast out to the ways to live their fate out however long it might be.

[SPEAKER_00]: We follow her as she's searching for fixes for the nuclear reactor or her brother. [SPEAKER_00]: She's kind of like a little bit of motive here. [SPEAKER_00]: She's trying to see what she can do to get herself back into that vault. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but as she's wandering around, um, uh, we see her interact with so many different types of characters, friendly characters, uh, just downright Western baddies and some people a little too handsy.

[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: We kind of see how, uh, [SPEAKER_00]: We see how she traverses it, but then also she gets into a bit of a pickle, like I said, all of us are action oriented type of creators. [SPEAKER_00]: So we do get to see how the side effects of a vault experiment might actually just save her life.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it sounds like you are taking a lot of inspiration from a recurring trend in the series ever since fall at one. [SPEAKER_02]: Something happens in a vault that causes somebody to have to leave that person has some sort of motivation not just because they're in the vault and they're part of this community to try to fix the problem or to do something greater for the greater good.

[SPEAKER_02]: But they also seem to have some sort of personal motive. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we see that with Lucy and the TV show. [SPEAKER_02]: We see it with Vault 101 and Fallout 3. [SPEAKER_02]: fall for, even though nobody else's alive and the vault anymore. [SPEAKER_02]: The protagonist still has, you know, whether you're, you know, either choice, you are still motivated to escape the vaults and take on the wasteland in order to find your son.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it seems like this is like follows through with that kind of that trend, right? [SPEAKER_02]: We're seeing it through the eyes of a vault dweller. [SPEAKER_02]: We're getting there. [SPEAKER_02]: engagement with the wasteland and their shock and surprise and horror and all of the things that come with that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you mentioned that things of course are going to be a little bit surprising and difficult on the surface because it is the wasteland. [SPEAKER_02]: Now in your notes you note that this is Oklahoma and the year is 2285. [SPEAKER_02]: So that's like four years after the events of New Vegas.

[SPEAKER_02]: And Oklahoma... [SPEAKER_02]: So it's you know Western it's close to Vegas. [SPEAKER_02]: It's close to Nevada all of that. [SPEAKER_02]: Are you taking inspiration from new Vegas specifically Cowboys and things and that sort of stuff? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we definitely wanted to play off of things that the games have kind of already introduced, but also timing-wise, I think we just wanted it to fit somewhere within everything that already exists.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Oklahoma, I feel like such a desolate type of area that like, who knows what's going on there? [SPEAKER_00]: So why can't we just tell a story? [SPEAKER_02]: right yeah and so one of the things I like to do on the show a lot with our patrons is we'll speculate about future games and like what settings they'll use and i think one of the things i've learned is first of all there are a lot of really fun ideas that people have especially if you live in a place or have been in a place long enough to really know it well to then imagine what the world would be like in the future in that place but also it seems like there's kind of not a bad choice [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like New York City is New York City and it's very different from Oklahoma But it's interesting if we end up ever getting a follow-up game there So so also would be Louisiana or Oklahoma and if you know that part of the US then you can extrapolate certain things and the way things might possibly be is there is there a specific Thing that sets Oklahoma kind of apart from other locations we've been to Gosh, well

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how much you want to reveal about some of the details here, so I'm allowing you to kind of, I don't want to spoil anything, so share what you feel comfortable with. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, what I can say is I think just like you do with your patrons and like, um, just like the games have done, we saw things in the real world and we're like, okay, this, like, is so fallout.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what could I do with this? [SPEAKER_00]: What could happen here? [SPEAKER_00]: And Oklahoma, um, I think [SPEAKER_00]: We think space, we think just wide open spaces, but also there's this, there's a small town that we came across and it's just full of car parts. [SPEAKER_00]: And this man, wonderful guy, he owns like half the buildings in this teeny tiny town and they're just full of car parts.

[SPEAKER_02]: This feels like somebody you would meet in a fallout game who's like get off my property You know, and then you look around and you're like your properties half of the town And they're like it is and don't touch any of my cars and they're all like in ruins And it doesn't matter like like what could you possibly do to them?

[SPEAKER_00]: literally that's that was the vibe and we you know I think to some people I could be such a like okay like so what but to us it was just it just immediately set the tone and and we thought like well do we want to like do we want to stage this location do we want to make it more on the coast like a place that felt like I was like kind of already [SPEAKER_00]: seem to focus on, or do we just let it be local homes?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And we just kind of did. [SPEAKER_00]: There's actually the thing that made me think, like we should just pull the trigger on this, like not even dress it up, not even try and make it somewhere else. [SPEAKER_00]: In Fallout 3, you can find a rejection letter and it's like the tiniest thing, it's not even like a big thing, but like the rejection letter notes that you could try applying for a vault in like a less populated area for a less competitive area like new annex Canada or Oklahoma and when I saw it in the letter, I was just like [SPEAKER_00]: We're in Oklahoma, act like the game kind of confirms it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like there could be vaults there. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, why not? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, it would be a wide open space. [SPEAKER_02]: It would also be the kind of place where you could put vaults with experiments that need that space or the isolation or place on the population who is there who may not be, I don't know, none.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe less involved with things, for example, if you go to LA, then you have a lot of people who are involved with those businesses and corporations and Hollywood and the advertising and all of the things that we're seeing like the TV show play out, right? [SPEAKER_02]: And if you go over to the East Coast, if you're in the Commonwealth or DC or any of those areas, it's got that similar kind of urban.

[SPEAKER_02]: Movers and shakers, but you end up in a place like Oklahoma, and I would imagine that the people who end up in that vault would be very different. [SPEAKER_02]: Their perspectives on the pre-war and how that information gets passed down to their children, or even just, you know, from vault text perspective, if you're going to set up different vaults with different experiments, then some of them are going to relate to the places the vaults are, and the people you're putting in those vaults.

[SPEAKER_02]: So is there anything specific like what's the vault number for this that we're so first of all before I get ahead of anything Are we starting in a vault or is this too much to reveal is this somebody who came from a vault and we're only hearing about that in like dialogue about the past [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, unfortunately, we're just going to receive exposition about the vaults we're never going to actually see it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: It would be a lot of production to build like an actual vault set, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I would imagine that that would be very daunting for a small team to do, very expensive.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Before I answer your question, can you hear the beep of the tow truck or? [SPEAKER_00]: No, no. [SPEAKER_02]: No, that's it seems fine. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not coming through on my side. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Great. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, exactly building a set like that is instrumental, it's huge, it's such a big thing, it's a big production and unfortunately was just kind of like out of our budget so we do take place outside of the vault the vault that we're working with is numbered 151 and I'll say I know that we go over the one 22 I think it is that we've expected our built.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's one of those things that's, I don't know, on the edges of the lore, there's, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: I've discussed this a few times. [SPEAKER_02]: It seems like there, there was originally a specific, like, maximum number of vaults from the original teams that were working on it, and then Bethesda took over, and that number seems to have expanded and changed slightly here and there, but then there's also other sources that were, are not canon, games that didn't get released, or content that was put out by somebody who kind of speculates other things.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, [SPEAKER_02]: I don't remember all the details, but it also makes sense from your perspective to pick a number that isn't going to be replicated somewhere else anytime soon, so I told you to get that. [SPEAKER_00]: We wanted a fun number, we wanted a clean number and it seemed to work.

[SPEAKER_00]: Also, we're not too far off, so I feel like we can kind of just fit it in there. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's going to film. [SPEAKER_03]: Sure. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, so we do learn about Vault 151, and there's actually a lot I can share about the Vault, especially because we don't focus on it in the film You can particularly, and we do provide a lot of exposition about it It's a lot of background, so you're not really spoiling anything, yeah [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: The vault is really posed to be this opportunity for maintaining a military presence after the war is over. [SPEAKER_00]: So how it's sold to the citizens of Oklahoma, who could be very patriotic, very hands-on, they're, you know, they're working in factories, they're working in farms. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, assaults of the earth are probably very conservative, very pro-American, like that type of [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: How it's sold to them is if you do partake in this vault, you're essentially enlisting into the armed forces and we will sort you based off of your your proficiencies, but [SPEAKER_00]: At the end, when we're all out of this vault, we will all be members of the armed forces. [SPEAKER_00]: We will we will be the military presence moving forward.

[SPEAKER_03]: Interesting. [SPEAKER_03]: Interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: Or a piece of it. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's how it's sold to anybody who's about to enter. [SPEAKER_00]: And then also the Walton habitants moving forward. [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's the ideology of pretty much 200 or so years that they're all in there.

[SPEAKER_00]: What it turns out to be is actually a compliance experiment. [SPEAKER_00]: So something that we've kind of created in the world is a substance called St. [SPEAKER_00]: Therapy. [SPEAKER_02]: And you can. [SPEAKER_02]: I have a brand new can to put the only shot into the waistline. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a mixture of pre-war camps, datripper and comics, and we essentially created or theorize that this synthetic V was not just started to be used in the vault, but actually had been used across Oklahoma.

[SPEAKER_00]: in different factories and farmlands, it's a daily supplement and its intention is to keep its people chill. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, put them playcated, like happy workers, that sort of thing. [SPEAKER_02]: We're like a corporation would want to make sure that their employees do what they say and they don't argue and they don't push for raises too often or Colin's sick or any of that stuff they just do what they're supposed to do.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's kind of what that feels like to me. [SPEAKER_02]: Is that the general vibe? [SPEAKER_00]: that's exactly what it is, especially when we consider the political climate of the pre-war era people are stressed, people are overwhelmed, why am I working in a factory when like, I don't know if the world's gonna end tomorrow and so the intention of the experiment even pre-war was to just continue to have people working and keeping them compliant so that when something [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, I'll sign up for the vault, like I live my country, I want to serve my country, I always have been and like, now is an opportunity for every generation after me to do exactly that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it sounds like you're really delving into the propaganda aspect of a lot of, I mean, a lot of these vaults, a lot of the messaging from the government, a lot of, a lot of that stuff, which they're diving more into in the TV series, and we're seeing that kind of play out in the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: So this, this matches that really well. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm very excited. [SPEAKER_00]: Actually every episode of this series that I watch makes me like more proud of this project because they feel, they feel like they could exist like really in the same universe. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think that makes sense for when you're doing something that resonates with the core.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of debate online about, oh, they changed the new Vegas ending or whatever, you know, like all of that stuff. [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not as interested in, did they change my expectations based on the way new Vegas played out in my playthrough or any potential playthrough? [SPEAKER_02]: I'm more interested in, when somebody takes content and, you know, from a video game and moves into a movie or a TV show or a book into a TV show or a TV show into a book or into a game.

[SPEAKER_02]: Every, every type of content has its own limitation and its own requirements, right? [SPEAKER_02]: One of the big debates recently is about the death claw, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Like, oak is the death claw that we've seen, or maybe both death claws that we've seen, are they hard of seeing?

[SPEAKER_02]: Do they not see very well? [SPEAKER_02]: Is this something they had to change for the show? [SPEAKER_02]: And if you think about it in a video game, when you come across a death claw, you either get killed and you reload your save. [SPEAKER_02]: Or you find a way to deal with it. [SPEAKER_02]: You maybe like, you know, you cheese it up against some geometry and shoot it in the head a hundred times and it dies because you don't have good enough weapons yet.

[SPEAKER_02]: Or you're at the point in the game where you can just kind of take them out. [SPEAKER_02]: But in a TV show with real human beings, they're not going to be jumping on the geometry trying to cheese the death claw. [SPEAKER_02]: So it's a happy fun. [SPEAKER_02]: That would be ridiculous.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, the ghouls obviously didn't really good at jumping. [SPEAKER_02]: Like his entire body height. [SPEAKER_02]: like what? [SPEAKER_02]: No, that doesn't work that way because it looks like real people. [SPEAKER_02]: It's real people. [SPEAKER_02]: But my point is that it's the spirit of it that matters more than sometimes when you have to adjust details to make it fit the environment that you're putting your product out for.

[SPEAKER_02]: That makes sense. [SPEAKER_02]: And in doing so, [SPEAKER_02]: having something that matches that spirit means that's going to line up with anything else that matches that spirit, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Like so if you're talking about and it seems like that's what you're building here is a situation 200 years after the bombs drop with vault dwellers who were sold one thing and got something completely different having to leave the vault deal with the ramifications of that go into the wasteland deal with other things, [SPEAKER_02]: Anything else that these people have to come across and that resonates like you're taking the core, I don't know, the the soul.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe that's the best way to say it. [SPEAKER_02]: The soul of fallout is Very specific things and you can replicate that and expand that in many different directions But if you start with that core, it's always going to feel like it's accurate like it fits That makes sense. [SPEAKER_02]: I know I just said a whole bunch of words, but does that that is that how you guys feel about this [SPEAKER_00]: No, that's, I think that was exactly it, even when people watch the film, they watch the trailer, the trailer that will come out with any teaser materials, you'll even notice the vault suit or the apparel of 151 is not the same as the traditional vault suit, and I think that was something that we recognized.

[SPEAKER_00]: There was a lot of things, actually, that we recognized. [SPEAKER_00]: We're [SPEAKER_00]: nail this into what already exists, but what we can do is build a story that really resonates with like these core themes, core themes of propaganda, of war, of industrialism, of capitalism. [SPEAKER_00]: We can really even like the conformity of the vaults.

[SPEAKER_00]: We can we can lean into the themes as much as possible, and I think that's really what we try to do here. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's an interesting perspective to talk about the military in which conformity is usually a very good thing. [SPEAKER_02]: You want your soldiers to conform. [SPEAKER_02]: They should be upholding the highest standards.

[SPEAKER_02]: They should be trained to absolutely appropriate levels for the dire difficult jobs that they have. [SPEAKER_02]: And they should be respected for all of that because the job of the military is to keep the people of your country safe. [SPEAKER_02]: And so that's a very respectable thing, but when you turn it and you manipulate it with propaganda and for reasons that distort that goal, all of a sudden, being conformist becomes a problem because you're being lied to about why you're doing it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then on top of that, you put in a [SPEAKER_02]: This is a scam that's forcing people against their own will to be even more conformist than they would otherwise choose for themselves, and now you're hitting multiple levels of deception and manipulation of people who have good intentions, and that feels extremely fall out because that's basically what the United States is doing to everyone in the country before the bombs drop.

[SPEAKER_02]: like nationwide and here you have it happening very specifically in one vault. [SPEAKER_02]: So I think I think you guys are nailing it when it comes to that side. [SPEAKER_02]: About the vault, the vault suit, is it more militaristic looking because of the setting for 151? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a it's a very militaristic looking um they were combat pants.

[SPEAKER_00]: We do see like the traditional tank top um but then also the jacket is meant to be removable um not just like a tie down at the waist type of thing like a wenzie like a lot of them are just like these wenzie outfits. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we wanted it to be for a couple of reasons, but the biggest thing was like the weather changes out there and your mission, your job, your intention is to be adaptable.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's to be aware. [SPEAKER_00]: It's to be present. [SPEAKER_00]: It's to be able to make a decision in a moment's notice. [SPEAKER_00]: And so we even see the character. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like her standard issue. [SPEAKER_00]: Pistol gear is a drop like holster. [SPEAKER_00]: it's all very militaristic, but we do still keep the blue and gold.

[SPEAKER_00]: We like the color of the thing. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, I mean, totally makes sense. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it fits. [SPEAKER_02]: It's a vault, right? [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, but you have to kind of update it for the purpose of this vault. [SPEAKER_02]: Will we be seeing some, I'm, this seems like a, [SPEAKER_02]: The answer is probably obviously yes, but I'm sure you guys are setting up some really cool intense combat moments and things like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Can you share anything about any of the action scenes you have set? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's a little bit of hand to hand and then there's a lot of gunplay. [SPEAKER_00]: We definitely wanted to find a way to integrate vats, integrate [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so there's a lot of play there when it comes to the action, um, it is a short film those.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: You can't, they can all just be action. [SPEAKER_02]: You have to have a silly story. [SPEAKER_00]: Sure. [SPEAKER_00]: But, um, our intention, you know, we, of course, we want the film to do well. [SPEAKER_00]: And if it does do well, um, we want to tell longer, more fun stories, so, um, the action will just keep getting better and better, but yes, certainly, um, [SPEAKER_00]: I myself, I train, combat sports, I train Moitai and a couple other people in the cast also train hand-to-hand combat.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then a lot of us, a majority of us, are like we train shooting, we love shooting just to be proficient and to be as like prepared as we can be. [SPEAKER_00]: So it was a lot of fun to be able to integrate some gut and play some hand-to-hand [SPEAKER_00]: But the lead character, she wins something, she loses some, like, it's not always an uphill or, like, a downhill type about it, like, we see her really struggle through something.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's going to be pretty fun to watch. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that makes it more realistic, you know, when the hero of the story, the protagonist isn't invincible, like that they, you know, they can dish it out, but they take it out. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, just like in a real fight, you know, if you've done, like you've said, if you've done any actual handhand training, and you've spared, you don't win.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, you might win, you might lose. [SPEAKER_02]: It depends who you're up against and some days you're just better than they are and some days they're better than you and it just, it can go either way. [SPEAKER_02]: That's why training is so important. [SPEAKER_02]: But I have a feeling we're going to see some really cool action moments, especially coming from people who really know this stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know for sure one of the things that happens on my show, if I bring up any of the weaponry, especially ballistics with bullets and things like that, there's always somebody who chimes in and is like, [SPEAKER_02]: Well, here's some more information. [SPEAKER_02]: You may not have no in about, you know, 0.45, you know, ammo, or whatever, and I'm, you know, I think I think gunplace cool, you know, I like it in movies and games and that kind of thing, but I'm not a like expert by any means on, you know, myself.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have gone shooting before, but I'm not the kind of person who can tell you like, oh, this gun has this type of ammo at it, has this many rounds and all of that. [SPEAKER_02]: But I know that there is a contingency of people who are big follow-up fans who are big on being up with that kind of stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: And even in things like on a TV show or a movie, when this is one thing I notice is when they just don't ever seem to reload. [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, there's a... [SPEAKER_02]: But bullets are not infinite. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how that works. [SPEAKER_02]: And you also just can't... All big as puppies.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right, and you also just don't all stand in the open and shoot each other and hope you don't get hit. [SPEAKER_02]: That's not how this works. [SPEAKER_02]: So I have a feeling you guys are probably doing stuff that feels a little bit more... [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's fantasy, but it probably feels grounded and like, okay, now this is how ballistics actually work.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, definitely. [SPEAKER_00]: We have some very fun practical, very fun VFX that kind of just show off. [SPEAKER_00]: I think what we all think we're capable of film-wise in here. [SPEAKER_02]: That's great. [SPEAKER_02]: That's great. [SPEAKER_02]: So, okay, so it's a story about a woman who goes out into the wasteland, and she's dealing with probably understanding what's going on in the world, how this is different than maybe what she was taught in the vault, but the vault training is still helpful.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how far we want to get into the storyline here, but are there any, any other things going on with this character and the kind of [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, what I will say is she's been taking some therapy, she's been taking it all her life. [SPEAKER_00]: So even though she's she's curious, just like anybody would be right.

[SPEAKER_00]: She's taking in everything as it is. [SPEAKER_00]: People are looking at her, looking at her funny and she's got to navigate that as well. [SPEAKER_00]: There are definitely something that she already knows, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, [SPEAKER_00]: most everything is up for trade, if not for sale.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they're, you know, to her, like, we don't touch anybody without their permission first. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, they're definitely some like, a vault living baseline rules that she is exuding as she comes out of the vault. [SPEAKER_00]: But, um, [SPEAKER_02]: And I would imagine everybody else being on Syntherev and under the same social conditions are probably especially because they are chemically induced.

[SPEAKER_02]: But they probably all just follow the rules. [SPEAKER_02]: They do what they're supposed to do. [SPEAKER_02]: There's probably very little actual inter personal conflict because everyone just does what they're supposed to do all the time. [SPEAKER_02]: And the wasteland is completely the opposite of that, where, you know, like the raiders don't grow up with like moral lessons and rules, like what is the point of that?

[SPEAKER_02]: So that's got to be a huge shock to her. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it certainly will be, of course, you know, there's always a couple of people out there who seem to have a good heart and I think we'll find some of those people, but certainly we're gonna run into a couple of people who just see what they like and they want to take it and that's that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, since therapy has a really funny way of taking over every once in a while [SPEAKER_00]: Well, uh, we'll influence her. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to give too much. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, only as much as you're willing to give them. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so okay. [SPEAKER_02]: So here's a fun question that probably won't give away too much about anybody specific, but are there are their characters or you were talking about finding a letter and thought three are their characters or class lines that kind of play into the inspiration for some of the characters we're going to meet or some of the situations they'll be in.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so what I can say about St. [SPEAKER_00]: Therapy and her character, we talked a little just a hair about perks earlier and one of the biggest inspirations I think were these very niche and specific perks that I've found in my in-game plays and I feel like this one isn't that niche or specific, but um [SPEAKER_00]: nerd rage is like a very interesting and fun one to me, because you can build your character to be insanely bright, but when it comes down to it, if they really need the help, something might, you know, awaken at them and kind of like help them.

[SPEAKER_00]: So stuff like that, I think has been really pivotal to the development of the story. [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, like the Lucy character she has been fantastic, but I think that's more personal what I will say is that like I see a lot of my gameplays in the Lucy character. [SPEAKER_00]: I definitely see this like naivety and this like curiosity, but also this general desire to just want to be good even when we had the good and bad scales in fallout.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I always wanted my character to be good [SPEAKER_02]: just as good karma as I could get um yeah yeah no I think I think that uh one of the stats I've seen about view games is about 80% of players 70 80% of players always do a good gameplay and never do an evil gameplay [SPEAKER_02]: That's like the cross-the-board most players when given the option lean-in to good and Have a hard time doing the opposite.

[SPEAKER_02]: One of the things I did playing fall out play through fall out three when it came out as a good character trying to make Trying to find that line of like yeah [SPEAKER_02]: It is being good going to make the game easier, probably not, but is it possible? [SPEAKER_02]: Like, can I still be a good person in a desperate terrible situation?

[SPEAKER_02]: And then my wife and I, at the time, I think we were dating at the time when we started playing Fallout 3, and then Fallout New Vegas came out, and she had been watching me play and helping make decisions in the game, and then she was like, okay, well, I want to play this one first, so I got to watch her play through, [SPEAKER_02]: When I got to play, I started my own character, but I went absolutely as evil as possible.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was just like, I'm going to try to be evil. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to see if I can do it. [SPEAKER_02]: And it created a very different experience for me on my first new Vegas playthrough. [SPEAKER_02]: Because, you know, you come across, I mean, basically you're acting like the Legion all the time.

[SPEAKER_02]: And just like, oh, again, a fight with someone. [SPEAKER_02]: I just kill them and take their stuff. [SPEAKER_02]: You know? [SPEAKER_00]: You know what, this is going to be my new first date go to watching people play fallout. [SPEAKER_00]: And if they play a good character or bad character is going to determine a lot for me.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, have them help you make decisions and see what kinds of decisions they make. [SPEAKER_02]: It'll tell you a lot about their personal morality. [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I like this. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but it's an interesting challenge, especially when you're playing along with somebody else for both of you to go against your natural inclinations.

[SPEAKER_02]: In some ways, it's not a satisfying because you don't get that feeling of like, okay, well, I did the best I could and maybe it didn't turn out great because it's fallout, but at least I gave it a good shot. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, kind of that loosey mentality of like, well, at least I tried to follow the rules and you kind of have that sense, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: But when you go evil, [SPEAKER_02]: everything just ends up feeling kind of gross. [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, look at that. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So I totally get that. [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, let's talk about your own experiences. [SPEAKER_02]: We'll fall out. [SPEAKER_02]: Do you have like a favorite game that you go back to regularly?

[SPEAKER_02]: Is there, you know, what's your perspective on the series? [SPEAKER_00]: Gosh, I know it's a bit controversial, but Fallout 3 might be my favorite one. [SPEAKER_02]: Interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: It's probably because it's where I started. [SPEAKER_00]: If anything, it's probably more of a nostalgic to me, but also like Liam Neeson's your dad.

[SPEAKER_00]: So kind of like, there's a lot of cool points in there, I think. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, it's definitely where I started, so I think it's, it's just been one of the more enjoyable games for me, but also New Vegas is just like there's something about being able to gamble in some naughty nightwear that literally smells great.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's definitely, you know, we both have their ups and downs. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they both have their own interesting settings for different reasons, but New Vegas has a lot more color. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, not color visually, everything's still kind of orange and yellow, but like, yeah, like the naughty night or being able to gamble or getting kicked out of a casino, because you want too much money.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like little details like that really make it feel real. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I, I also used to live in California for quite some time, so it was cool to be able to like actually drive and see some of these landmarks that were so influential in the game. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I think it's also why, like, I didn't feel so weird or bad about just like placing our film in Oklahoma and placing it off of something I saw because when I went to go see these like the cab is on dinosaurs or buffalo bills, like, [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh no, these things actually just exist and we can just tell a story around them and it can still be fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm really glad that we have, well, in Fallout 1 and 2, you've got like the West Coast, but an expanded region, they're very large, and then in New Vegas, a return to a very, I guess, country kind of Western kind of feel, which is in direct contrast, like I mentioned before, to the big city urban kind of thing that we see in some of the other games, but, [SPEAKER_02]: All of that comes together to create a much more well-rounded view of the United States as a whole, because if all of the games were just set in DC or LA, that would feel silly, because we're not getting that full perspective.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess the same thing would apply for making a film. [SPEAKER_02]: If you had just every film in the commonwealth, [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, yeah, okay, we've got like the origins of the country, the Revolutionary War, the history of democracy and all of that stuff that totally is very American, but Oklahoma is as American as you can get also just for very different reasons.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that there's a large percentage of people who absolutely, if they had their choice, would always set fall out in a much more kind of Western or rural setting because to them, that's what fall out feels like. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I totally agree, and I think the storyline kind of really flows through the state.

[SPEAKER_00]: It makes sense when we talk about like the people that existed pre-war and what their ideology may be, what kinds of things they may tell their children, if they were involved. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it, you know, a story, especially, is made up of the whole country and so I mean there's plenty of people that talk about wanting to do like a fallout in London and learning more about that and I think like of course like a global picture would be fantastic but even being able to dive into something that like and if I did a fan film and a place that already existed like [SPEAKER_00]: have to nail everything to a tea, you know, everybody's going to compare it to what already exists.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that doing something like this certainly gives us a little bit of room to play and create something instead of just reproduce something that's already been said. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that's what it gives you a little bit more creative freedom while still maintaining that core spirit of what fallout is and I think that's part of the fun of it is being able to say, okay, I understand the core spirit in this location that might become [SPEAKER_02]: this and that that's kind of an an unending well of inspiration and creativity because you can always kind of take that template and put it on something else.

[SPEAKER_02]: Again talking about some of the patrons and discussions about this and jokes I live in Florida and jokes about like what would have followed Florida be like and it was like oh man Florida man every raiders Florida man [SPEAKER_02]: Every alligator is like a gigantic abomination of some sort you know like there's so much there But there's so much everywhere right like so are there are there any other I don't know little secrets or little little bits about Oklahoma That come into inspiration in this that we should be looking for I mean What about creatures or I don't just some of the raider groups or I mean it's the brotherhood involved like I know You can only give away so much, but is there anything else?

[SPEAKER_00]: I will say we started a bit small. [SPEAKER_00]: We didn't want to be too ambitious. [SPEAKER_00]: We didn't want to tackle anything that we didn't think we could within the like short production timeline that we had. [SPEAKER_00]: It plays into Western tropes a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see a lot of religious people, Western people, [SPEAKER_00]: I think that as we explore, what I can say is as we're able to move out of teeny tiny town Oklahoma and maybe into OKC or something more populated.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's where I think we can see more, but to start us off, we are in the middle of nowhere, middle of nowhere. [SPEAKER_02]: It's a wasteland of the wasteland. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Nice, nice. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so we're getting close to the end of the interview here.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't want to push you for too many things. [SPEAKER_02]: But imagining that this takes off, this does really well. [SPEAKER_02]: You talked about maybe doing more fallout projects. [SPEAKER_02]: Do you see this being the beginning of a story that continues? [SPEAKER_02]: Will we see the protagonist again in a future story?

[SPEAKER_02]: Or is it more fun to just take on a totally new environment with new characters and build that from scratch? [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, everything's very open right now. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that we're also very interested to see how it's absorbed amongst the public and what they think, um, but also we've talked about expanding the storyline of the main character that we have now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, we also say that she's searching for her brother. [SPEAKER_00]: So we've talked about creating a story where maybe we just see the brother after this cast on the vault. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you get his side of the story and all of that. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: exactly and and do they ever meet up like what happens I think in almost like in a stranger things fashion or even like the fallout series like you know we'll follow to separate stories that seem to run a bit parallel and then see how they come together.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've also talked about following some of the bad guys and just kind of like understanding their story. [SPEAKER_00]: We introduced, I mentioned a religious character and he seems to have a bit of a troubled past turns. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I found, I found God type of. [SPEAKER_02]: Right, I put away my sin and I've decided to be a better person and this is, it's working out sort of like one of the story lines.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think we're very excited to go in any direction, but we're all very creative and after even just after filming. [SPEAKER_00]: I think we're kind of like, okay, what's next? [SPEAKER_00]: What's next? [SPEAKER_00]: What's next? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I, it's, it's very exciting. [SPEAKER_02]: I, I, I love the creativity that goes into these kinds of things and the ability to like you said to pick a character and explore that character and then pick a different character and explore that character. [SPEAKER_02]: And you mentioned, uh, having a religious character show up, there is religion and fallout, you know, there are people who worship different things.

[SPEAKER_02]: And there are remnants of real world religions that you can, you see every so often, uh, but it's not something that has played a major role in any of the games. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, [SPEAKER_02]: you could say, you know, there are groups that play major roles, but having a protagonist or a villain who is particularly religiously motivated, I mean, you could argue the Brotherhood, especially in the TV show, seems more religiously motivated.

[SPEAKER_02]: So you've got a little bit of that, but what I'm imagining is something a little bit more, I don't know, typical to our world. [SPEAKER_02]: As I speak about this, like more and more characters pop up in my head, maybe we should do a whole episode about religiously motivated characters and follow-up games, but having, you know, like, I would imagine, like, here's in perspective that doesn't come up very often, oftentimes in dialogue, in follow-up games, you don't have some sort of religiously motivated reason for doing things.

[SPEAKER_02]: that doesn't come up like at from a character player standpoint, you can go along with a specific group and you can pretend to be part of them or disagree with them or whatever, but that would be an interesting take on it, especially with how much religion plays a big role in American life for so many people.

[SPEAKER_02]: to incorporate that in. [SPEAKER_02]: But of course, it becomes a dangerous thing to do because people don't like it if you misrepresent their beliefs, but it is fantasy in this individual might have maybe not perfect understanding of those beliefs, especially 200 years in the future, having to live in the wasteland.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: This is just kind of a word salad at this point, but that seems like an interesting unique perspective that could be better expanded on, I think, is what I'm trying to get in. [SPEAKER_00]: I think so. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that there's definitely plenty of tropes that are very futuristic and rely in like the Fallout universe as we know it, you know, post-apocalyptic, 200 so years in the future, but there's also plenty of like present-day tropes that I think will resonate with people and even if [SPEAKER_00]: and we see it in this series now too.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that we don't have to shy away from those. [SPEAKER_00]: People will really get it and it will still land. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, and I think one of the things that you see a lot in film over recent years. [SPEAKER_02]: is turning things on their head, right? [SPEAKER_02]: You take the character who's supposed to be this beacon of morality and believes in God or whatever their faith is for what appears to be good reasons and then all of a sudden they're sinister and they're the bad guy in the horror movie or something like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: But then take that and twist it back and go, know, people misunderstood they're actually a good person would be like, and even more interesting, I don't know, flip because one of the things about film is that it's always in conversation and every piece of art is always in conversation with the art that came before it.

[SPEAKER_02]: So you constantly have to be kind of innovating and playing with that. [SPEAKER_02]: So it would be interesting. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, just kind of spitball in some ideas here. [SPEAKER_02]: But here, when we're getting to the end of this, is there, are there ways that people can, I don't know, be a little bit involved with this or keep track of what you have going on or their things that you want to share out into the public about this project that you guys are working on?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah absolutely so we do have a web page for our crowdfunding and updates so even if you're not donating that's totally okay just visit the web page because there's a lot of information on there that we've already released about the story and about the progress it's www.killumkiny.info [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Kill him. [SPEAKER_02]: Kill him. [SPEAKER_02]: Kindly. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Kill them kindly. [SPEAKER_00]: Kill them kindly. [SPEAKER_00]: Kill them kindly. [SPEAKER_00]: Just like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Just like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Just like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Just like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Just like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Just like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Just like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Just like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Just like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Just like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Just like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Just like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Just like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Just like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And everybody in the team has been doing a fantastic job with the resources that we already have. [SPEAKER_00]: But also, my job as executive producer is to nag you guys for help. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you wanted to be as good as you possibly can, and that takes, it takes money to do that, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, talent can only go so far if they don't have the tools to make the things that you're trying to make. [SPEAKER_00]: I'd say, but like I said, and like I will always say, it's not just about the donations, it's really about us getting eyes on the web page. [SPEAKER_00]: So please, even if you don't intend to donate, just check it out, just see what we're doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Learn more about us. [SPEAKER_00]: There's bios on the actors. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, we've got some information about the director, the assistant director, um, a fantastic crew that came out with pretty much all of the equipment that we needed for free. [SPEAKER_00]: So, uh, please, if you guys are just, even if you're just interested in film and you want to see what group of goofy people is putting this together, we're all up there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Awesome. [SPEAKER_02]: Awesome. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it sounds like such a fun project to be a part of and I'm a little jealous. [SPEAKER_02]: I actually told my son the other day. [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, you know, if I grew up a little bit younger and just like slightly different path going into something like filmmaking or video effects or something like that would have been really kind of a fun thing to get into.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm already so established in what I'm doing now. [SPEAKER_02]: We'd be hard to kind of switch that side. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, like you kind of already imagine a role for, I mean, every good fallout has a radio broadcast. [SPEAKER_00]: That's true. [SPEAKER_00]: That's true. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm kind of thinking maybe we can make something weird.

[SPEAKER_02]: All right. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, let me know. [SPEAKER_02]: Let me know in future projects if you need like a radio guy. [SPEAKER_02]: I can do some funny voices too. [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know if that's helpful. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, yeah, like, you know, I want to kill him kindly, shook thing, Narn.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I like, I like the old prospect, I call that my old prospector voice. [SPEAKER_02]: This is probably way more than anybody listening to this once, but he's a guy that kind of talks like, is he just shook your thing, Narn? [SPEAKER_00]: Because he's polite. [SPEAKER_00]: I love you. [SPEAKER_00]: On point.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love it. [SPEAKER_02]: He's the old prospector. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, yeah, so, okay, so anything else, final, final thoughts, final words, anything else you want people to know? [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I don't know, just thank you guys for listening to me nerd out. [SPEAKER_00]: I never, like, I never get to talk about this stuff like in such depth.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so this was really, really, very fun and I hope people enjoy learning about 151 and the world we've created. [SPEAKER_02]: And kill him kindly. [SPEAKER_02]: There you go. [SPEAKER_02]: That's awesome. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, thanks so much. [SPEAKER_02]: Don't be a stranger. [SPEAKER_02]: And especially when you guys are, like, I'm sure this is going to go great.

[SPEAKER_02]: Based on your track record, everything else looks awesome. [SPEAKER_02]: And when you guys are spinning up your next project, definitely reach out and try to let people know about that as well. [SPEAKER_02]: Because the world couldn't have enough awesome fallout content by people who absolutely love it.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that's, it's, you know, it's good all the way around. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's just say that. [SPEAKER_00]: I love that. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much. [SPEAKER_02]: Well Sam, thank you for being here and I'll be right back after the break in order to thank our patrons and all of that so don't go anywhere.

[SPEAKER_02]: So there you go, now that the follow-to-TV shows over, you still have other things you can watch. [SPEAKER_02]: And you can keep up with Killemkindly by going to Killemkindly.info for more information. [SPEAKER_02]: I'll put the link in the description. [SPEAKER_02]: And thank you to all of the patrons who have been supporting this show and welcome to our newest patrons, White Broccoli, Kai, and Adam G. Thanks so much for your support.

[SPEAKER_02]: I hope you're enjoying your ad free episodes or all the other things you can get as well. [SPEAKER_02]: And, [SPEAKER_02]: Got a shout out our Sentry bots germinator the main monkey in era m. Thank you so much for your support as well Come join us on patreon.com slash fallout lorecast and I will see you next week We're delving back into other lore stuff that we haven't talked about in a few months because of the tv show and These cool new projects for movies and things coming out.

[SPEAKER_02]: So get ready for that have a wonderful week stay safe in the wasteland and well until then Kill him kindly see you next time [SPEAKER_02]: To plug into everything else we're doing, check out robotsradio.net, reach out to me on Twitter at robots underscore radio, check out the robots radio rocket club where you can join me and a bunch of our other creators creating your podcast starting a new podcast or helping your current podcast grow.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's more information about that on RobotsReady.net as well and you can always talk with us and the entire community over 2,000 people on the RobotsReady Discord. [SPEAKER_02]: Come join us. [SPEAKER_02]: We'd love to chat with you. [SPEAKER_02]: See you guys next time. [SPEAKER_01]: Robots radio, games, lore, stories, community, just press play.

393: Fallout Fan Film "Kill 'em Kindly" Interview w/ Producer Sam Conde

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