Someone Has to Go First: Luke Smallbone on Forgiveness

0:00 But the truth is, you know, oftentimes I think the greatest gift God sometimes gives us is he gives us obstacles. And those obstacles, he gives us opportunities. And at the end of the day, this film is probably something that I will look back on hopefully years from now and go, man, that was, yeah, we worked really, really hard. That was insane.

0:19 Why did we ever do this? This is crazy. But we did it. And look at the fruit that has come from it. Those are the things that I often think through is the pain, The short-term pain, yeah, you feel it, but the long-term gain is amazing. And at the end of the day, for us to have our brothership back, I would do it time and time again.

0:41 So good. The world is competing for your time, attention, and identity. But what if your greatest legacy is that you were famous at home?

1:00 Welcome back.

1:01 Thank you so much for joining us today. If you are new to the podcast, we want to welcome you. I have a special friend, very dear friend, one of my closest friends on the planet. Luke Smallbone is with me today.

1:13 Luke, how are you? I'm great, man. Man, I just realized this is the third time we've done this, which is fun, man. And we just chased the dog back in from getting out. It's rather late in the evening at this time. If you can see on the one camera angle, we've got... It's pitch dark. It's dark. So thank you for being with us.

1:35 Kids are out just having a blast.

1:36 Kids are out there losing their mind playing soccer.

1:39 So we are on the podcast. The reason we're on the podcast right now is because you have been working incredibly hard over the last.

1:47 We've been working hard, yeah.

1:48 I mean, actually, this is like eight years in the making.

1:51 Eight years in the making. That's right.

1:52 So for those of you, we're jumping in here talking about Drummer Boy, the movie. So if you've listened to For King and Country... through the years, the Christmas album, the Drummer Boy song. You guys are turning it into a movie now.

2:05 We're turning it into a movie, yeah. Tell us about that. If you were to rewind back 2012, we went into a little church in Franklin, and we came up with these Christmas renditions of songs. And we were doing a headline Christmas tour that we had no right doing. We had no songs, we had no album, and yet we were doing a Christmas tour. And so what do you do when you're doing a Christmas tour? You got to come up with different renditions. And we didn't think much about The Little Drummer Boy, the only reason why we selected the song was because it had drama in the song title. And we're like, ah, we like drums.

2:35 We'll do The Little Drummer Boy.

2:37 And unbeknownst to us, it became over the coming years, that rendition, one of the, I mean, we don't, we can't play a summer festival in July without playing The Little Drummer Boy, which is a Christmas song. And so in 2018, Ben came to us. I've got four brothers, but another brother that we do a lot of music videos with and have done films with in the past came to us and said, hey, that seems to be going well, that song. What if we built a movie around this world that is a drummer boy about two brothers that end up on the opposite sides of the Revolutionary War Most people don't realize, but drummer boys were used to kind of give out tactics in wars. They were to sound the retreats. They would do all sorts

3:21 of different things. And it came from these drummer boys. When they were marching, they were marching to the beat of these drummer boys. It's an amazing story just in and of itself. Generals are giving cues to drummers. This is a fascinating thing. And so here we are, eight years later. We went through all sorts of crazy scenarios.

3:40 We're in 2020. We were very close to getting it greenlit. I think that was March 11th. And in the following week, the entire world shut down. That's a story I did not know. I didn't realize it was that close. Yeah, we were close to getting greenlit. With the pandemic, out went Drummer Boy. And so then after that, if everybody remembers that season of life, business-wise was fairly tentative. They wanted home runs. I think that's what every boss was saying.

4:06 That's cool. We need home runs. And so Drummer Boy is a pretty expensive film. So we went then and made a film called Unsung Hero. And that was successful enough now to get us to a point where when we went back to investors and said, we've got this big idea. It's called Drummer Boy because Drummer Boy is also a musical. All right. So you're mixing Revolutionary War.

4:25 You're doing Christmas. It's Christmas, right? It's really the three things that the Fakian country loves. Film, music, Christmas. You put it into a blender, out pops Drummer Boy.

4:34 That's amazing. And something actually a real fun fact.

4:36 Yeah.

4:37 The Drummer Boy music video starts... In this cabin.

4:42 It does. That's exactly right.

4:44 In this cabin. You're literally sitting at one of these windows, I believe.

4:48 Yep, you're exactly right.

4:48 Right here in this cabin.

4:49 Phoenix, I think, had COVID during that time. Oh, no. He was sitting here. We didn't know it. And he was sitting here because my son, who was five at the time, is the little drummer boy in the music video. And he's sitting doing all these things. And he started saying, I sure don't feel so good. Oh, buddy.

5:05 Yeah.

5:07 We will link the drummer boy music video in the show notes today. And then also the movie, I just want to logistically talk about this. It comes out November 6th. And so it's really important the way that movies, and we'll get more into the story behind the movie and everything like that. But from a logistical standpoint, I just want to make note of it here early in the episode.

5:27 It's really important. If you guys could get tickets for the first opening weekend, it really does impact how the movie does and how long it stays in theaters for. It's kind of like in the book industry, the more that you can get pre-released people to buy pre-orders... then it's going to help that book stay viable longer. And same thing with movies. And so we're really hoping that we can get you guys out there. We will be in the movie theater that first weekend and hope to have you guys there as well. And you have something special for them listening.

6:02 Yes. So this is actually pretty fun. So we'll get more into talking about kind of the heart behind it and where it came from, the story. But it's very, very special. Joel and I had never really heard of a BOGO, right? But it's probably because we were homeschooled. But a BOGO is a buy one. Instead of get one, this is a buy one, give one. And so if you go to angel.com forward slash drummer, you can literally put in your city. You'll see where the theaters are.

6:27 Select how many tickets you want. And in the promo code, just put gift and you'll literally get a ticket for free. So if there's four of you. you're going to the theaters for the price of two.

6:36 So we're going to put that in the show notes. We want you to be able to do that today. That's awesome.

6:40 So fun. Yeah.

6:40 That's amazing. Tell us a little bit, like go back eight years ago. You're thinking of the drummer boy.

6:45 Yeah.

6:46 The, even the meaning of the story.

6:48 Yeah.

6:49 Where did this originate? Talk about that a little bit.

6:52 Well, yeah. So look, part of it, I think in filmmaking, at least the way we make films, is whatever is real personally is something I think in the stories that we want to tell. And so coming from five boys in a family, a brotherhood has always been a very powerful thing for us. Our oldest sister was an artist or is an artist by the name of Rebecca St. James.

7:16 we were the road crew very, very early on. So the five boys were doing lights. We were doing merch. We were doing all sorts of different things.

7:22 And as we're setting up the podcast here, and I'm setting up the lighting and here at night and all the sound and stuff, in the back of my mind, I'm going, this guy's an expert in all this. And here I am setting it all up. It's so funny.

7:33 It's all good. So because of that, the brotherhood is near and dear to our hearts. So when it comes to a brotherhood and people being split to the point that they're on the opposite. I mean, think about that. On the opposite side of a war. And this was something that was fairly common. We forget in the revolution that I believe it was like 40% were for the revolution.

7:56 There was about 30% that were like, don't really love war, so I'm just neutral. And then there was about 30% that were loyalists. And so you had loyalist towns. You had loyalist parts of towns. You had people recognizing that if we're going to go to war with the crown, this is a huge deal. So we were very intrigued by the idea of what does it look like? Because it actually really happened. What does it look like? And why would brothers end up on the opposite sides of the battlefield? And part of what Drummer Boy tells a story of is two brothers that both feel like they're fundamentally right. The other one is just downright wrong. And it's just a very interesting thing because one of the things that's not lost on me is Jesus told parables, right?

8:40 I got in trouble for this because I said fake stories once and they were like, Jesus is not a liar. I didn't mean it like that. But parables being fictional.

8:47 They're stories. They're stories.

8:48 They're not true stories of the time, but the messages that they teach can change the world. I mean, at the end of the day... Jesus changed the world by telling stories. Think about that. It tells us something about what we should be doing with our lives. It tells us what we should be doing with our art. 300 years ago, the things that moved culture were stained glass and paintings. The things that move culture today are music and films. Wow. And so for us, the vision for King Country has always been, how do we impact people's eyes and how do we impact people's ears?

9:21 Yeah. Man, it's so good. And so it's Revolutionary War is the setting.

9:26 Yep.

9:27 And you got two brothers on opposite sides. Take us into the... I mean, I was thinking about this for you, actually, as it related to even the songwriting. You were just integral in these songs, and then you get the storyline to fit the songs. Take us into some of that. And some of the personal struggles that you see within the characters and some of the themes that the story is telling.

9:53 Yeah, so.

9:54 the tricky part this is one of the things that people have asked quite a lot lately which is like so what came first the script or the songs? And the answer is probably yes. Because what happens is, I'll never forget hearing the story of Frozen when they wrote Let It Go. They had something else there and the songwriters went, and then they played them Let It Go, and the producers were like, so I think we're going to reorient the story to fit Let It Go. That's kind of how it goes. You have these ideas, you have a script, and so you write songs into that script, but there also comes a moment sometimes when you're writing songs where you go, I know that we probably should be saying this, but as I dive into the characters

10:34 a little bit more, I think if they were to say this statement. So for instance, we have a song on there called Who I Hope to Be. And the two brothers, their father, spoiler alert, early on, he dies. And the boys are trying to live up to who their father kind of... Who he was. Who he was and what they had seen him live out and what he had modeled for them. And so there's a song saying, are we who we hope to be? Are we who we hope to be as his sons? And so you craft the story coming in and out of that song.

11:09 And so when it comes to which came first, well, the concept of the movie came first. And the concept of Two Brothers on Upper Sides, but a father being woven in there came after. There's these songs that are written. So it's like, oh, who I hope to be if we were to position this more from, well, the boys are trying to live up to the mantle that was their father. that makes that song hit and punch a little bit harder. It's things like that.

11:35 And so- Well, it's fun too, because just along the journey, getting to watch.

11:39 You- Yeah, hear all the songs.

11:40 Already know some of the songs, but then also watching you think through, and then obviously working with your brothers to bring this to life, but thinking through how a scene, I'm thinking of the opening scene.

11:51 Yeah.

11:51 Land ho, just even like, just seeing your creative juices flowing through back and forth through the entire process, which is so cool to see.

12:01 Well, it's fun because it's a musical, right? And so now, for those of you who are out there, they're like, well, that's a musical. I hate musicals. There's like 20 or 30 minutes of music, and the rest of it is live action. And so if you are one of those, obviously, a lot of females seem to really like the musicals.

12:16 And a lot of the men are like, I don't know, give this one a try.

12:20 Guys, it's Revolutionary War and a musical. Who does this?

12:24 The other thing that we've also been saying is it's like, It's like the Patriot mixed with Hamilton, Greatest Showman, and Pride and Prejudice. And once again, that's kind of a little bit like what it's going to go on. But the songs is what I've found really enjoying, what I've really enjoyed about the process of making it is sometimes in films, you can feel a lull, right? And it's hard to avoid because it's just how do you keep people for an hour 45, their attention the whole time?

12:54 What's fun about music is the moment a beat comes on, you start feeling something. So in the scheme of a movie like ours, which is a musical, anytime there's a lull right before you start to feel it, a song comes on and it carries you and it moves you. It makes you emotional. And so in some cases, the music does a lot of the heavy lifting of what you're feeling as you watch the movie.

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14:15 We were out of town. We were visiting family, Christy's family in Canada. and we're coming back and Kennedy, our daughter has one of the songs to the musical playing in the car. And I was like, how did you get this? Did they send you this? And she's like, Oh no, the albums, part of the songs are already out.

14:33 So we are going to put in the show notes, the links to wherever you listen to music, we're going to put the links to the album so that you have that as well. So, um, The theme of forgiveness, and I wanna think about this in relation to families and those of you listening, because I think this is so powerful. Scripturally, biblically, we know the power of forgiveness.

15:00 And Jesus said to practice it 70 times seven, and that those who are forgiven... The idea that, man, when we're forgiven much, we love much. The idea that we are That there's just something about that. And we live in a very divisive culture in many ways. And when I say divisive, if you listen to this podcast for any length of time, you've heard me talk about even estrangement in families, emotional cutoff, things like that. And the hard that comes with that. I think this movie brings a lot of hope. just about the meaning of forgiveness.

15:38 I'd love for.

15:39 You to share a little bit about that.

15:41 Talk about that.

15:42 There's really three main themes. It's forgiveness, it's reconciliation, and it's freedom. Those are really the three main things. And we'll get into some deeper stuff here. Forgiveness has been interesting because when we, eight years ago, came up with this concept of the film, it was Joel Ben and myself, so three brothers. And because of how it went through the pandemic and all sorts of things, we went off and in some cases creatively started to go our separate ways.

16:10 In some cases, business-wise started to go in two different directions. And sometimes, as many of you that are watching, when you start doing that and those things start to creep into your relationship, all of a sudden, your personal life also starts to go in two different directions. And so it was about a year ago. I mean, I remember calling you up many a times. You're probably like, is he really going to talk about this? We call you many a times to get advice where Joel and I and Ben we're just not seeing eye to eye on a lot of things. And it started to get progressively, I would say, more contentious. And somewhere along the way, we just realized that, hey, you know what? We're making a film about reconciliation. We're making a film about forgiveness.

16:53 And yet here we are having a very hard time doing that in our own family and our own brotherhood particularly. And so we took a flight. Ben was working on another film And we had the uncomfortable conversations of just, hey, man, look, we've got to own some things. And let's talk about it. And we basically walked out of that room with this commitment of, hey, we're going to make this film together.

17:20 And recognizing that it's not going to be perfect, that we've got to rebuild trust, that we're going to have to continue to practice forgiveness, that when suspicion starts to creep in as we work on this film, that we're going to have to pick up the phone. And the greatest gift of this film is obviously we want everyone to go see it. We want this to be successful.

17:42 It's not just our butts on the line. There's a lot of other investors. We want people to get paid back. We want all those types of things. But the greatest victory is I got my brother back. And whether or not this film is successful or not, in the heavenly realms of things. This has already been successful. And for me, films are so complicated on top of everything else that's going on that I have to get to the why we're doing something. And as soon as I realize like, oh, this is what is before us, this is the opportunity that God has somehow given us, this is the opportunity for us to actually live out behind the camera what we're trying to teach other people and show other people a little bit about. Who would have ever thought? And

18:27 here we are. So it's been a great gift. Forgiveness is difficult. It's difficult. It puts your pride on the line. I heard it said somewhere that if there's two Christians that can't get along, it's because one or both parties just has to be right. And at some point, you have to be willing to give up just being right for the sake of being right. And I read a statistic.

18:49 This is treading on your ground, so forgive me. But I read a statistic the other day that said 38% of families are estranged from one member or another. And part of the vision behind this film is it's right after midterms, and it's right before Christmas. Sometimes I think that there's an empty seat at Christmastime that should be filled, and it's not filled because simply there's some misunderstandings. If someone has to go first, someone has to be willing to pick up the phone. Man.

19:14 You couldn't have said any better. I, it's been fun to just see God's work through that whole process and just to see the beauty of, and I think there's so much, there's so much to be said. I think God honors when we do the work in our own lives, right? It's like, there's just so much beauty in that. And, I think for just the process for us, it was cool for us, because we got to come to Ireland.

19:39 We got to kind of see behind the scenes. We got to watch all of it play itself out you know behind the scenes and uh and i just what where my mind went even in that was even just watching everybody affected over in ireland everybody affected i can't even imagine the number of conversations yeah you all have had and even just how the stories, I mean, I know some.

20:02 Of them already. Well, I'll never forget. So for those of you who don't know, we filmed this film in Ireland. People are like, why are you filming a Revolutionary War film in Ireland? Ironically, it looks similar, which is crazy to think through. You'll never know that it's not the Northeast. So it's amazing. But I'll never forget, the director of photography, kind of the guy that's in charge of the cameras and getting the shots, we had some time with him before car haul but before uh ben uh came over because he was working on other projects so joel and i were over there working getting things prepped and then ben came and i i went to him and i said well this is a he was just so excited about the movie he's like all of the themes the

20:43 music i'm just so excited and this is a guy that's worked on uh massive massive projects and i pulled him aside and i said hey man just just so we're clear you know some of the things in this film like we've actually had to really live behind the scenes and And even when we're all together coming up in a few weeks, kind of just be able to look out. And he just looked at us and he was like, wow, I'm just so honored to be a part of this. So then you go on this crazy journey of making this film for three months. And we get to the end and he just got to the end and he just was almost like weepy over just how much he enjoyed seeing brothers build something again. The brothers work together again. It was really special. It was

21:29 one little like just tiny story that it was cool to just reminisce about a little bit.

21:33 It's so cool.

21:34 All right.

21:34 So because it's Revolutionary War, it's PG-13. That's right.

21:38 That's right. But there's a lot of families watching.

21:41 There's a lot of families. Can I take my kids to the movie theater to see this? Yeah.

21:47 Look, so there's no sensuality.

21:48 Talk about that.

21:48 Yeah. There's no sensuality. There's no cussing. At the end of the day, it's a Revolutionary War film. There's muskets that go off. There are people that fall down. There is two, I think, bloody images of just a wound where you see some blood. That's basically it. And so we were sitting there going, guys, have you seen some of the PG films in the 80s? And they were like, here's the deal. A, times have changed. And B, the moment that you show some of those things, no matter how tame, it's just fundamentally PG-13. There's no way... And so we went to them and was like, hey, how can we re-edit? And they were like, you would have to have a different movie. That's basically what it was.

22:27 And so I have no issues with, and obviously parents, you've got to, you know, everyone, parents their own way, understands their children their own way as they should. But I have no issues without our five-year-old daughter watching this film. And so, you know, my hope is that it can be filled. I mean, look, there's a lot of Marvel films that are, you know, PG-13. But our hope is obviously the theaters can be be filled with families, but we did also have to recognize that if we're going to make a Revolutionary War film, you kind of have to tell it the way it is. And this is how the cookie crumbled, unfortunately, but this is kind of how it is.

23:04 And don't take Luke's word for it. You can take Leo's word for it.

23:09 That's right. If you go to the band's page, there's a video of our son talking about the film being PG-13. And it went a little viral because he's just a very interesting kid. And he's talking about things being PG-13 and why it's okay. And it's parental guidance because it's guiding people to forgiveness. I think that was his phrase.

23:35 He's such a great kid.

23:38 Oh my gosh.

23:39 So November 6th. And by the way, if you can't make it this weekend, you know, as it releases, go next weekend, you know, get your tickets, go make this. And I know like, you know, I think I've probably been to maybe one movie this year. Like it's just, you know, and for families, you know, getting out and that sort of thing. Just a really, really good opportunity to be able to go do something as a family and to also, as you said, I think it's, I loved what you said, right after midterms, right before Christmas.

24:08 And what a really cool, I mean, we're entering that season of that tension field. Like if you have tension in your family, right? That's right. It's like you're feeling it because you're feeling the close connection of Christmas and memories and all of that sort of thing. And there's just, there, The movies that stories that invite you in, and I think this is why film and music are so powerful.

24:34 I've been talking about this over the last few weeks about joy and what really transforms our right brain experiences. So even writing a gratitude list is fine, but if you just are writing a gratitude list, it's different than if you are sitting in it and you close your eyes and you go back I've been posting, you might see me every now and again share a 1990s Christmas vintage reel coming back. Because if you grew up in the 90s, you're like, oh my word, what is it that makes it so powerful? I'm actually talking about this in a few weeks on the podcast as it relates to reminiscing. But it's these right brain experiences. This is why Jesus telling stories and parables was so powerful. I think this is why film is so powerful is because

25:18 we go into the story. You go into and you experience this. as opposed to just sitting there and hearing it being maybe preached at you or that sort of thing. It's like, oh, there's a visceral response to this. And I just think that's what's beautiful about what you guys create.

25:33 Yeah. Well, man, we're really excited about it. And even just to speak to some of the cast that came along to the film, you've got Melora Hardin, who is Jan Levinson Gold from The Office. Oh, man. So cool. She's in there. You've got Charles Esten from Nashville and Outer Banks. Ian Glenn, who's an amazing, amazing English actor. He's, I mean, whether or not you should be watching it or not, but he's from Game of Thrones. He's done some Downton Abbey appearances.

26:02 Yeah, I was out with you in Ireland. It was late at night. I don't know if you remember this, but they were filming this scene where the drummer boy, Lucas, he's out there playing and he looks at me and he goes, all righty then.

26:17 Well all right all right well all right then that that scene was just amazing because it's like it's like 11 30 at night it's like it had to be done just to be to be behind the scenes to see how all this plays out was one of the.

26:28 Coolest things yeah and i mean look it film film is this fun him do yeah this is this fun make-believe thing that you know we we get to be a part of but the the ultimate hope is is at the end of the day you know people have been asking a good bit lately like what do you hope people take away from i do hope people take away Funny enough, that was going to be my next question. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'll beat you to it. It's going to be my next question. I do hope people take away forgiveness. I hope people are challenged by that. But the other thing that the film, maybe I shouldn't say this, but I will.

26:56 It ends with one of the actors actually looking at the camera and just saying, are you who you hope to be? And one of the things that I think is an important question to ask, there are certain questions that you ask yourself and they don't really demand an answer. you know, maybe or I think so kind of works.

27:15 If you look at your son and say, son, are you who you hope to be? You can only really answer yes or no. And if it's no, then for me as a father, I'm saying plot a course on how you get to this is, yes, this is who I hope to be. And my hope is that, you know, as a nation, are we who we hope to be? As a leader of your family, are you who you hope to be? As an individual, are you who you hope to be? I think that these questions... Because I think the greatest art isn't just entertaining. It leaves you with something. And my hope is that when people hear these songs and they reminisce about the story, I hope that people do wake up in the middle of the night.

28:01 I hope they think about it. I hope that they leave the theater. One of my favorite things about the theatrical experience is You basically never go alone. Some do, but you basically never go alone. And what's the first thing you do? Walking out those dark halls. You always go, what did you think of the movie? And the questions that come from those things. When you bring your kids, you drive home all of those things. Because at the end of the day, I heard it said somewhere not too long ago that someone said, if you want to live a happy and fulfilled life, there's basically one thing you need to learn how to do. You need to learn how to forgive the people that you thought at one point were unforgivable. Because if you can do that,

28:39 you're free. And when you talk about who you hope to be, I would love to be known. If people were to say, man, Luke, that's one person who's always learned how to forgive. That's one person that's always learned how to say he's sorry. That's one father who, when he makes a mistake, he's always willing to say, son, daughter, I need to talk to you.

28:59 Dad made a mistake.

29:01 I need you to forgive me. Those types of things, I think that who I hope to be and the forgiveness message I think they go hand in hand to me.

29:10 It's so good. Would you remind them again of the deal?

29:13 Yes. If you go to Angel, so the special part is, and this deal is only for the 6th, 7th, and 8th, all right? Now, it's still really cool, but it's only for that first weekend. So if you go to angel.com forward slash drummer, pick out your seats. You'll see all the theaters there. You kind of enter in your city.

29:31 You enter, pick out your theater, find your seats. And then when you go to the checkout page, There's a promo section there. Just enter in gift as the promo, and you get your second ticket for free. So that's like if there's a family of four. You're going for the price of two, which is a very, very cool thing.

29:49 Which is really cool. And as we'll be talking about in a few weeks, as it relates to the holidays, just experiences together matter. And as you're talking about leaving the theater, I just think about that drive home. The reason you talk about these things is because you've all just experienced it together. And so it's the one thing you get to talk about. You didn't come from separate parts of your day. And now all of a sudden you're trying to figure out what everybody did. No, you experienced it together. And it's just a beautiful story. And so- I'm really proud of you, man. I just want to say that. I mean, it's just to watch. I just got to see behind the scenes over the last little while and just to see it come into fruition

30:27 and see the hard work that goes into it. Most people never get to see the amount of work that you guys have done to create. It's just what goes into it is unbelievable. And I just want to say I'm proud of you for the way that it's come.

30:42 The hope is anytime you listen to any great song, you experience any great art, You should never feel the hard work. It should feel effortless. But the truth is, you know, oftentimes I think the greatest gift God sometimes gives us is he gives us obstacles. And those obstacles, he gives us opportunities. And at the end of the day, this film is probably something that I will look back on hopefully years from now and go, man, that was, yeah, we worked really, really hard. That was insane. Why did we ever do this? This is crazy. But we did it.

31:13 and look at the fruit that has come from it. Those are the things that I often think through is the pain, the short-term pain. Yeah, you feel it, but the long-term gain is amazing. And at the end of the day, for us to have our brothership back, I would do it time and time again.

31:31 So good. Talk about being famous at home. Guys, check out the show notes. We got everything there. Thank you for joining us.

31:38 No worries, man. Tonight. Yeah, no worries.

31:40 Here we are after chasing a dog.

31:42 Just so we're clear, we live deceptively close to each other. So it wasn't that hard.

31:47 So keep in mind until next week that the greatest red carpet you will walk is through your front door. Thank you for listening to the Famous at Home podcast. If this episode was helpful for you, would you consider sharing with a friend, a coworker, a family member? And go wherever you listen to podcasts and leave us a review.

32:08 This is how people find out about it. And if you're interested in any of our coaching programs, check out famousathome.com or the show notes for more information. Keep in mind that the greatest red carpet you will ever walk is through your front door.