NFL Trade RUMORS, JJ McCarthy Returns & Vikings Stay Perfect: Week 7 Reactions (Ep. 2296)

0:01 Hello, everybody.

0:01 Welcome into the tailgate. I'm Ryan Wormley, joined by Derek Brown and by Andrew Erickson, reacting to all things week seven of this NFL season continues to fly by. D-Rub, you have a topic we're very excited to talk about. Besides that, how are you feeling here after week seven?

0:18 It was good, guys. Up and down betting week, which has just been the norm, unfortunately, for this season because the NFL has been so freaking up and down and wacky. I feel like Guys, do you remember a time whenever we're walking into almost close to the halfway point of the season where it still feels like, okay, I know this and this and this about certain teams, but there's so much that I don't know about any of these teams.

0:45 It just feels like we have had such a topsy-turvy NFL season. And when I feel like we've gotten to the halfway point of an NFL season in most years, it's kind of like, oh, Got a decent feel about the landscape, player usage, how the teams are running and things like that. 2026 said, no, no, thank you.

1:05 It feels very, very up in the air. And every NFL season, it does feel weird in its own unique way. But this one does feel it's not even that it's weirder than other seasons. It's just that I feel like we know less than other seasons. I'm constantly surprised every week and don't feel like I have the best sense of what's to come in the second half of the season, which makes it quite exciting. Honestly, Erickson, how you feeling?

1:26 I wish we saw more points in the lines of Packers game. I wish that Jameer Gibbs scored a touchdown and didn't let himself go down at the three-yard line. Luckily, he avoided any type of injury because this always happens to players because they're not used to sliding and then they end up hurting themselves, which is always a really big concern because nobody teaches these guys. They don't have the baseball coaches coming in like so long ago when they did with Mark Sanchez. When they were trying to teach him to slide back in the day, they brought in players from the Yankees. to help Mark Sanchez learn how to slide. And he never really learned how to slide.

1:56 Only knew how to do the classic butt fumble. But besides that, I mean, we saw a kicker miss a 26 yard field goal. And then the corresponding move, the head coach of the other team went for it on his own 24 yard line. It was like Bill Belichick, hold my beer. I'm Dan Campbell. I'm going to go for my own 24 yard line. They don't get it.

2:14 And they don't give up any points anyway. It's just, it's a crazy weekend, but I mean, that's why we love it.

2:20 Right.

2:20 Again, the, The unpredictability of the NFL is why it's a must watch every Thursday, Sunday, Monday. And then as upcoming in the months of November, we're going to have football on Thursdays and Wednesdays and Fridays and every day of the week because it's going to be on all the time, especially during the holidays.

2:37 So looking forward to that.

2:38 Roger Goodell says we're going to a seven day a week schedule. We're going to play in every single country.

2:42 I mean, we're going to Tokyo next year, boys.

2:45 We're going to have games in every single country, soccer stadiums, rugby stadiums. We're actually going to play. We're possibly going to have like in a dirt stadium. I mean, there is no limit to the NFL, baby. All the time, every day, 24-7.

2:58 It's going to be like tennis. You have different champions on different surfaces, like the grass champion, the clay champion.

3:03 There's a clay court? There's a clay court team?

3:06 Nobody wants to be the turf field champion. Nobody wants to play on the clay court.

3:11 No.

3:13 All right.

3:14 Well, speaking of turf fields, let's get into the injury roundup here. We usually start the newsy notes with that. Not as robust an injury roundup, actually, for the second straight week. There was a lot of them this week, but a lot of those players returned to their game. So it looks a little bit better than it could have if those guys didn't come back. Jalen Waddell left late in his game with there was like a chest slash shoulder. I'm not sure exactly what it was. Um, Kim Scadaboo went down on that long run in overtime with a hamstring. They said he should be okay. They have the buy. So that's good timing for them. But he did go down, um, right before they won that game in overtime. Jalen Knoll turf toe. That's no fun. We,

3:51 we love Jalen Knoll on the show. Aaron Jones. They said he should be okay. He's day to day, but he did leave his game with a knee injury. Christian McCaffrey. He did come back in his game, but just because he's such a big name and it's such a long injury history, I wanted to at least mention him. He left his game, did come back in that loss. And then the only other kind of report I had here injury related was that Lamar Jackson is likely to return in week eight against the Bills. He didn't play this week, but there was reporting during the game that the Ravens were surprised he wasn't playing and that the very, very strong expectation is that he will be the starter against the Bills in that one. So obviously that's a pretty

4:22 seismic return for any NFL team, but particularly in a fun matchup with the Ravens and Bills. So that was the injury roundup I had. D bro, let me know if I missed anybody or where you want to start from those names.

4:32 No, I mean, I think, I think he hit everybody, but I will say there is a lot of like painted optimism with a lot of those injuries. Like cam Scataboo. We don't know if his hamstring is going to be better after a freaking week. Aaron Jones has an aggravation of a knee injury that he's been playing on one leg for the last few weeks. I don't know if this is truly day to day when the guy has been hobbling through all of it. So I, I will say there's a lot of media, not for you, Worm, but I think how these are getting framed, a lot of optimism. And also, dude, the Lamar Jackson stuff, he legit came out in the media and said, I am not 100%. I cannot play the way that I want to play. That's why I'm not playing. And the team

5:14 is like, sure, he'll be 100% next week.

5:18 No problem.

5:19 And we'll get the fully healthy version of Lamar Jackson. Because, Worm, you and I thought about this during the offseason. It's like, When he's not fully healthy, that's not a great version of Lamar Jackson. Is that going to really be a good game versus the Ravens and Bills? I don't know.

5:36 If he's healthy, it will be, but yeah, he needs to be healthy.

5:39 But you can agree with me. He's not really truly fully healthy, correct?

5:43 I would guess that's the case. I think it's possible that he was close this week, and the only reason he didn't play was because he does think another week.

5:51 Will get him to. Close to trying to play through it, but not 100%.

5:55 It's speculation. We won't know until we see. We'll know very quickly when he's back on the field, if this is like last year where he's limited or if he's back to Lamar. That will be very obvious early, I think. But yeah, I mean, you can't possibly know for sure right now. High ankle sprains last several weeks. They always do. Erickson, what do you take away from this injury roundup this week?

6:14 The one that I'm kind of intrigued the most by is probably the Giants back. Because Tyron Tracy also got hurt in that game, which is why Devin Singletary was the one that had the final dagger in his... under the radar revenge game. Oh, that's a good call out game winning touchdown in overtime for the 10 and a half point underdog giants to beat the Houston Texans who fall to now two and five, which is crazy to think about because I think that if we all agree, like who, who would be favored in a game between the Texans and the Vikings right now, neutral field, the undefeated six and a Vikings against the Texans.

6:47 I'm pretty sure we're all taking Houston.

6:48 Yeah, no, you're not wrong. Because I believe in teams that can put up more than 20 points. I believe in teams that actually have a competent passing game.

6:57 Just an interesting quirk, but the Giants' backfield... Because I agree with Debro where Skadaboo talking about and telling reporters after the game that this is before any type of imaging or he's seen medical people, which is like, oh yeah, I felt something in my hamstring. That is never, you never want to feel your hamstring, right? Like the best thing scenario is like, oh, I don't even know if I have my hamstrings exist.

7:17 No, they're good.

7:18 But if you feel them as you get older, again, just worst case scenario for a running back like Skadaboo. So I know that they're going on the bye week and it's going to be, oh, he's going to be fine. Wasn't this the same thing that the news outlets sold us about Rashi Rice? Oh, yeah, like his hamstring, he's fine.

7:35 He's going to be great. Comes back after the bye week, DNP.

7:38 Two weeks later, still.

7:40 Like, still not back.

7:43 So I would not be holding my breath hoping that Scadaboo is going to be back and healthy and ready to go.

7:48 We know hamstring injuries last.

7:50 So that's something that I'd be concerned about this Giants backfield as a whole as we get into some of these trade discussions of some of these veteran running backs. Dude, I think that the Giants, I know D-Bro kind of teased it when we first started recording, but I think that they are so alive to add a running back before the trade deadline. So they were talking about that during the offseason. That was one of the things with Jeremiah Love and their interest with him. They were one of the teams that was in on Ken Walker.

8:15 Yep.

8:15 The New York Giants, despite the fact that I had Scadaboo and Tracy and Najee and all these dudes. So I think that's a backfield that even over the bye week is going to be one that we're going to monitor very, very closely. And It's going to be a lot of me up in the air because you don't get injury reports during the bye week unless the players like talk on a podcast or something.

8:32 Scad was like, yeah, dude, my hamstring is like.

8:34 He's going to be on a Twitch stream like Fortnite. Like, yeah, guys, I got a nice back on the old hammy right now as he cuts a backflip again.

8:43 Yeah.

8:43 So, so that's something to pay attention to with Aaron Jones. Dude, sit this guy down. He keeps reactivating the same exact knee injury. And they're like, we got to keep loading them up with touches, even though they got Jordan Mason back and thought Mason looked fine, except for when Kyler Murray was like, throwing it 10 feet over his head on all of the dump down passes i thought that jordan mason looked good just feed him right give aaron jones a break so you can at least have him available to you in the second half of the season because right now he's just going to keep re-aggravating this knee injury so those things i looked at obviously anytime mccaffrey misses time everybody's holding their breath because we know

9:15 of his injury track record they have a bye week so again fingers crossed but just don't drop caleb black in any of your fantasy leagues don't do it like It's not worth the risk. No matter how glowing they are about, oh, McCaffrey, he's great.

9:27 He's fine. There's nothing wrong. No.

9:29 You lock and key hold on to Kalen Black forever. You don't let anybody pry him away from your fantasy team.

9:35 So those are some of my thoughts.

9:36 And then Jalen Waddle, the dude just has real estate in the Blue Medical Tent. And I hate it so much, but it's constantly being done.

9:44 Can we also talk about the fact that it doesn't matter whether he's out there or not. Bo Nix can't complete passes and Bo Nix doesn't target him.

9:50 That's also true.

9:50 So it's like Jalen Waddle's like, Bro, you're not featuring me in this offense anyway. What's the point?

9:55 Also, the fact that he gets hurt on, like, an end around play when they're trying to like run out the clock in the fourth quarter and they're like.

10:02 Let's do an end around to Jalen Waddle. Like, this is a great idea.

10:05 Did you see the Sean Payton presser too? When nobody in the media, I don't, did you guys see, even see this clip?

10:11 I don't think so.

10:11 Okay.

10:12 Sean Payton was talking to the media after the game and nobody asked him about the Jalen Waddle play. And Sean Payton's like, uh, so is anybody going to ask me about the dumb play that I called on the end around to Jalen Waddle?

10:23 No.

10:23 Okay. Well, I'm just going to answer the Jalen Waddle question that I know should exist here. And Sean Payton went on a rant about how stupid it was and blah, blah, blah. And yeah, yeah. Sean Payton like owned an L. which I was like, oh, good. Accountability. Loving it, baby.

10:39 Are we sure this was not the AI version?

10:40 I don't know. We got the AI version of Lurn.

10:42 He actually got got by AI and didn't realize it.

10:46 We got the vampire AI version of Lurn before starting this show. I mean, it's running rampant, baby. Golly.

10:52 Yeah, Erickson, I'm going to start referring to the hamstring as the offensive line of the body. Like, you only hear about it when it's not a good thing, I think is a good way to put it. Because, yeah, you don't ever feel it, and that's tough for Scataboon. Everything else you ran down. Before we get out of the news and notes, Erickson, give us a quick update on our tailgate fantasy league, please.

11:12 Got another dub this week. We're actually protecting a small lead with two guys left to play tonight in the Monday Night Football game between the Cowboys and Eagles. We have Dallas Goddard going. We have George Pickens going. So we started off pretty rocky because we had a lot of injuries. We also drafted Puka Nakua. So as you can imagine, a lot of teams that drafted Puka Nakua to start the year did not start with very glowing records.

11:35 but team is starting to come into form and we finally got the, uh, benefits or we reap the benefits of drafting Kenneth Gainwell finally for the first time.

11:45 So yeah, that was good.

11:47 Good to hear that. We're kind of on the ups and where, where are we in the standings?

11:50 We're in the bottom.

11:51 That's okay.

11:52 Unfortunately, the bottom quartile, but like the Bengals.

11:57 We are still in range of owing our listeners.

11:59 We're the giants of the fantasy league. Let's go. Come on.

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12:37 All right, guys, let's get to our week seven reactions. We've got three a piece. Ours are all actually somewhat related to each other. Our first ones, at least. So we'll be kind of a larger conversation here about this particular game and organization. But Erickson, you are asking about the Colts selling after another loss.

12:56 Yeah, I think that's the question that we're all kind of wondering.

12:59 Is this the beginning of the market sale, the yard sale for all these Colts players that are either on expired contracts, they're veteran players because the Colts are going in the wrong direction, falling to two and five after they lost against the Minnesota Vikings. They had a chance to win that game too, right? But they missed a field goal. Daniel Jones just constantly under pressure. It was actually insane how much Brian Flores just did not. He blitzed Daniel Jones on like over 80% of Daniel Jones dropbacks, which is like the most by a team in the last 10 years. Flores just like was no fear.

13:30 And yet it's somehow less than I thought he was going to do against Jones.

13:33 I mean, he's been doing it every single week.

13:35 Every week.

13:36 He just doesn't care. And it's just, it's absolute insanity. But another loss for the Colts, two and five now. And we got a report before Sunday's game from ESPN, Dan Graziano, I believe, that four of the main Colts players that were going to be on the trade block, that they were going to be looking to potentially move.

13:53 DeForest Buckner and Grover Stewart, I think those are the two names that make the most sense. Veteran defensive tackles where playoff teams are looking to bolster their defensive lines, whether it's because of pass rush, whether it's because of helping stop the run. I think Buckner and Grover Stewart make so much sense to be offloaded by the Colts as older players that can contribute to a playoff team, especially as part of a defensive rotation. So I think those guys can be the first to go. It would not surprise me at all if those guys are gone before the Colts play again. Like they're playing the Jacksonville Jaguars this week. That's on the road. They are touchdown underdogs and they're facing the Dallas Cowboys. So I think

14:27 it's very realistic that the Colts are going to be two and seven by the time the trade deadline comes. And I mean, JT and Quentin Nelson are the guys that are tougher to move in my opinion, but they were also players that were featured in that article just because These guys are like faces of the franchise type of players. So if you're moving away from Jonathan Taylor, you're moving away from Quentin Nelson. Again, JT just signed a new contract with the Colts this offseason or contract extension.

14:53 So I think those are massive moves. I think it would take a lot to get Jonathan Taylor. But I think the Colts, what they showed us by giving Seth McGowan basically season highs across the board. I don't think that's a coincidence that you saw him get a highest opportunity share of the season, highest snap share of the season.

15:12 at the expense of Jonathan Taylor in a game that you're trying to still win. I mean, Seth McGowan's out there on the first drive. It wasn't like, oh, we're going to get McGowan like mixed in, in garbage time or whatever. No, he was playing legitimate snaps in a game that they were trying to win. So is it soft tanking, whatever you want to call it? Look, I think the Colts are definitely open to trade Jonathan Taylor.

15:29 It just depends on what the price would be. So it's just a matter of who is willing to pay what for Jonathan Taylor, knowing that he's a little bit of an older running back with a contract that you have to pick up. So what do you guys think about the Colts? Like, Are they already looking ahead to 2027?

15:42 Are they going to.

15:44 Draft a quarterback?

15:44 They sure should be.

15:45 Can they draft a quarterback?

15:46 They don't have any draft picks because they traded him to get Sauce Gardner, who did not even play in this game.

15:50 Chris Ballard, such an idiot. The other player that I think can get moved that you didn't mention, Erickson, is Josh Downs. Tons of teams with receiver needs. Now, Graziano, did he mention him in the article or not?

16:03 He actually mentioned Keenan Allen. Okay, well, I mean, both of them make sense, though. Keenan Allen is a veteran.

16:07 Keenan Allen makes sense. Josh Downs makes sense. I'll also throw another name. Charverius Ward, an aging cornerback, makes sense. Like, lots of really good spots where he could land and stuff. Like, yes, I think if you're the Colts, you're not reading the room. You're not looking at everything, all the parts and pieces, if you're not putting the for sale sign up on everything inside of the house.

16:27 Because, again.

16:29 I'll harken back to it, guys. What was it, three or four weeks ago when the Colts were 2-2 and I said, okay, yeah, burn it all down. Burn it to the foundation. Burn it to the ground. This is a broken franchise. It's being run into the ground, not because of the owner, because of the head coach, because of the GM, because of everything in between. Tear it all down. Do this Dolphin style. Tear it all down.

16:52 I was just going to say, Miami did it right.

16:54 Yeah.

16:55 Commit to the bit. Tear it down. Steer into that skid. If you're going to do it, Do it. Don't say, oh, Quentin Nelson has been such a great player for so long. Go get something for him. You can get probably a pretty decent pick for a guy like Quentin Nelson even at his age because he's been so good for so long.

17:09 Commit to the bit. Do it.

17:10 Don't worry about the face of the franchise. Don't worry about that stuff. Just be like, hey, the smartest thing we can possibly do is get back the most value we can for these players. Just unequivocally. Nothing else really matters for the rest of the season for this franchise. if that's the direction they're going, and I think they should.

17:24 You don't worry about the face of the franchise for 2026. You worry about bringing in the face of the franchise this offseason that could be the face of the franchise for 2028, 2029. Yes, 100%.

17:33 Yeah, the emotional attachment to these players. I get it. At the end of the day, these owners are like, we do want to still sell some jerseys, but the smartest thing long-term by far is to not care about that stuff.

17:46 Well, because eventually all these glittering pieces just become a chandelier in an outhouse. That's all it is.

17:52 Yeah. I'm going to go before DeBrow on this one because I want to talk about the other side of this game and talk about the Vikings. They are undefeated, the last undefeated team in the NFL, and I'm still not sure that they're a playoff lock, guys. I just don't believe it. I know at a certain point it becomes a math, you know, not problem, but solution for them where, like, you win so many games and it will be very hard to miss the playoffs. Having said that, this offense is not working. I cannot believe how unsuccessful they were. against the Colts. They win this game, of course, 16 to 10, yet another week where the offense is not good, but the defense is so excellent. And they're facing a really bad team that we're talking about. Like

18:30 they need to go full Miami Dolphins here, their opponent, and they win by just six. Again, I thought they were going to win by two touchdowns because I thought the offense would do something against this defense. And again, I knew the Minnesota defense would be good, but man, like it is just not working right now with Kyler Murray.

18:44 It's not working really with anybody in this offense. They obviously take the Aaron Jones injury as we discussed today. They're 6-0, again, the last undefeated team. But, man, I was looking through the schedule last night. I'm going to pull it back up now. And it's not like it's a murderer's row or anything like that. Like, it is manageable, but there are tough games. And if the offense really doesn't get going, like, it gets harder than it has been. Like, to date, they have beaten Green Bay Packers, the Bears, but in that monsoon game, Caleb gets hurt, the Bucs when they were absolutely terrible, the Dolphins, who they barely beat, the Saints, who have been, you know, slumping hard. And the Colts. They have not been a lot of good teams.

19:19 Coming up, they have at Detroit versus Buffalo. At Green Bay, who looks better than they did in week one, even though they lost yesterday. San Francisco, who only has one loss. Atlanta, who's the only team to give San Francisco a loss. Carolina, who's been up and down, but their ups have been really high. At New England, who's playing better again. Detroit again.

19:36 I mean, like, it gets a lot harder here for this next stretch. It wouldn't surprise me if this team ends up like 9-8 or something. And the NFC, I know it's not that strong, but there are at least seven pretty good teams in there to make the playoffs. I think it's just the bottom that's pretty weak. And I could see the Vikings have been the outside looking in.

19:52 So that's a bit of a bold prediction to say like that definitely will happen. So I'm kind of couching it a bit by just saying they're not quite a lock rather than going full bold prediction here. But this offense is just non-functional and it's really hard for me to believe that defense is going to be so good the entire season that it won't matter and that they will really be contenders at the end of the day.

20:09 I think one of Detroit or Green Bay, probably Detroit's going to win, going to win that division, but they're all decent teams, right? We still think there's maybe three playoff teams out of the NFC West. You do run out of spaces quickly when you have some of those divisions like that. And I don't think, I think Minnesota might not get into bro.

20:25 The Vikings are a fraud, have been a fraud and will continue to be a fraud. Just to put numbers behind everything that you just mentioned, So first of all, the war of attrition with injuries, Erickson talks about this constantly and he's always right about it. The Vikings sustain any kind of injuries to their defense if their defense takes a step back from being historic top five, top three defense. If they become a middle of the pack or top 12 defense, if there's any cracks in the pavement for that defense, this offense is God awful. Kyler Murray is a terrible freaking quarterback. The Vikings are idiots for investing in Kyler Murray of this season. Just some numbers to back all this up, guys. Anything you want

21:06 to pull up, this offense is wretched. It is a dumpster fire. The Vikings, sixth worst in yards per play, eighth lowest in points per drive, fourth lowest in EPA per play, fourth lowest in passing success rate. I could keep going and going and going for another 10 different stats right now, but there's no point because you get what I'm putting out there. The Vikings are a terrible offense.

21:34 And I don't see that changing when the quarterback is the problem for the entire offense and your head coach has quietly always been a fraud.

21:42 I just want to say quickly, I don't think they were an idiot for investing in Kyler because he was so cheap.

21:46 Yes, they were.

21:47 They didn't invest anything in him. They got him for the minimum contract.

21:49 They invested in a toddler playing quarterback at the NFL level who has never been a.

21:54 You're wrong about this.

21:55 He has not been a serious quarterback in the NFL over the last five seasons. He hasn't.

21:59 He has not. It's not idiotic. It is smart process to say– Even a guy who has struggled recently– and coming off of an injury to say you can get a guy who has been a successful NFL quarterback at some points in his career and who isn't that old. But he's not one now. For the literal veteran minimum, that's not a bad investment. Every NFL team would and should do that.

22:16 Cool.

22:16 You signed a bad quarterback off.

22:18 The trash heap for nothing. Do we want kudos for signing a bad quarterback for nothing? No.

22:24 He's still a bad quarterback. They're not idiots for taking that swing. That's a high upside. The floor is hitting.

22:30 But is there upside?

22:31 It costs them nothing. It costs them absolutely nothing.

22:33 Is their offense good?

22:34 It doesn't matter. It's not a bad investment to say, let's take a swing. It just hasn't worked out, and that's fine.

22:39 It's a bad investment when the quarterback was bad to begin with. That is what makes it dumb. They knew there was a chance it wouldn't work out, and it hasn't. That was always a risk, but it was, again, you spend literally nothing on a guy.

22:50 That's not idiotic.

22:51 That's like saying the gas station sushi, if somebody gives it to you for free, is still a good investment for dinner.

22:56 No, it's not.

22:57 It's still bad, and it's still going to make you sick.

23:00 Well, I mean, it depends on what the alternative is going to be. Because I know you wanted them to bring in Willis, right?

23:04 I mean, they could have signed Malik Willis. But again, KFC fraud.

23:07 If you want the alternative, would they be 6-0 with Malik Willis as their quarterback versus Kyler Murray slash Carson Wentz slash whoever has started because Kyler Murray has obviously missed games.

23:15 Obviously, the McCarthy thing was not going to last.

23:17 No, that was never going to last.

23:18 No matter what. So, you had to get an alternative. I mean, would you have wanted them to bring in Tua? Like, I don't know.

23:26 Yeah.

23:27 So, like, again, I think I agree a little bit more with Worm here where you're not paying him literally any money. It's not like Kyler Murray's working his way into an extension.

23:35 Right.

23:35 I can't imagine that Vikings media is like, oh, yeah, we got to sign this guy long term.

23:40 I think it's like, OK, like here's here's the counterpoint.

23:43 We got to move on.

23:44 Signing Kyler Murray for nothing versus what if they just reunited with Kirk Cousins? What would this team look like at this point right now?

23:51 I mean, they still might.

23:52 And they should.

23:53 You never know. Don't close the book on it.

23:56 If they want to actually try to salvage their season, and I know this sounds crazy in the year 2026, they should trade for Kirk Cousins is what they should do.

24:04 Honestly, I mean, like.

24:05 It's always hard to play that game from free agency signings, though, because, like, the players got to want to sign there, too. Like, Millie Willis might not have wanted to go play in Minnesota.

24:12 No, that's fine. If I was a quarterback, I wouldn't want to sign with KOC either. Yeah.

24:17 But just some of my final thoughts just on the Vikings.

24:20 So.

24:21 Kyler Murray.

24:22 So again, not, not playing well. He's actually playing in terms of his EPA per drop back.

24:27 It's actually career low.

24:29 He's been terrible. And even though it seemed like at least the last couple of games, it'll look like he was progressing. This particular spot was really, really bad. Given the fact that it was a really bad Colts defense. He posted silly season loan completion rate over expectation minus 12.2%. It's like really, really bad. And there were no excuses right with Kyler where, uh, I was at least holding the light on for, okay, he's going to have the first game with all the weapons. Like he's going to have Addison and Jefferson and Hawkinson and Darisaw and the running backs.

25:01 And it didn't mean anything.

25:03 It was just more of the same thing running around, holding the ball on for too long career high time to throw this year for tech columnar is 2.91 seconds. They've also been really inefficient on first. I will say from the Vikings overall, uh, I think that building the ship and entire offensive infrastructure, like out of Aaron Jones is also not the smartest thing in the world.

25:24 Like why, like, why is this the strategy?

25:25 Cause they don't have anything else to do.

25:26 Let's give our aging running back a billion touches and he can barely survive any game because he gets re-injuring the same knee. So that kind of blows my mind from just like a play calling standpoint of why they're doing it. I get that they can be more conservative because the fact that their defense has been so good, but about the schedule, like that's not going to happen anymore.

25:45 Like you're going to have to score points when you face the lines, when you face the bills, when you face the Packers, when you face the 49ers. So as good as Brian Flores defense has been, dude, like it's not going to be as easy over to the next month. So I agree with you guys. And I'm curious before we get out the Vikings, what do you think the odds are for the Vikings to miss the playoffs?

26:01 Oh, I'm sure it's like, probably it's.

26:03 Actually like kind of insane.

26:05 Like I would miss the playoffs. I'm sure it's like plus three 10.

26:08 Is that okay? What's your guess?

26:10 Boy, I don't know. I mean, I, Because you're asking the question, that's making me change my mind.

26:15 You've got to bake in the narrative. It's going to be aggressive because we're 6-0.

26:19 A 6-0 team in a vacuum, again, the last undefeated team in the NFL, I would think to miss would be pretty unfavorable odds there. But the way you're saying it, is it actually closer than you would think?

26:31 I mean, it's minus 400 for them to make the playoffs. Yes, so it's plus 475, so almost 5-1 for them to miss the playoffs.

26:38 And I'm kind of like, To your point, Worm, there is a point where the math just kind of takes in place here where they could drop. I mean, they could finish, what, 9-8? Or excuse me, yeah, 9-8. Yeah, they could finish 9-8 and still make the playoffs. They could finish 8-9 and still make the playoffs. They could drop a ton of games in the second half.

26:57 I don't think an NFC team is making the playoffs as a wildcard below 500 or even at 9-8. I think it will take 10 wins to make the playoffs.

27:07 Maybe.

27:08 Maybe I'm wrong.

27:08 I mean, maybe.

27:10 Look, again, obviously the books have done their math in some capacity to have it this heavy in terms of just making the play.

27:17 It's basically where.

27:18 Do they finish their division? Because if you think that the NFC West is going to have two wild cards, there's only one wild card to go. We don't think it's going to come from the south or the east. So it's can they finish first or second in the NFC North? Because if they're third and those two NFC West teams get wild cards, then they're out. So do you think the Packers and Lions and Bears, two of those teams will finish ahead of them? Because if so, then I actually think that's a pretty reasonable path, a case for that happening.

27:42 When you're looking at these other teams, they have some of the, you know, in terms of best odds or like implied probability to make the playoffs. Like the only ones that are longer, or excuse me, shorter odds are the Chiefs, minus 900 to make the playoffs. Like, okay, yeah, we all kind of know they're going to make the playoffs.

27:59 And I'm just looking and scrolling, like Broncos are minus 335. Jags are minus 600. And the Vikings, yeah. I mean, even the Rams are minus 110 to make the playoffs because they've lost so many games to start and then the Bills.

28:14 It's the 6-0 start. That's all of it. So that's what's driving.

28:18 And then the 49ers as well. You know what?

28:21 I'm going to change mine from I don't think they're a playoff lock to I'm going to make this a bold prediction and say they missed the playoffs.

28:27 I fully agree with that. I co-sign that. Fully co-sign that.

28:31 I think that this is a good, kind of an interesting bet to make, especially because if you look for the next couple games, they're probably going to drop a couple games. You're going to see these odds obviously dramatically shift away from the Vikings.

28:41 This is a big game this week for these odds. If they beat the Lions this week in Detroit, then, okay, 7-0, you've gotten a good win under your belt in the division.

28:50 You beat the Packers, too.

28:51 But if they lose this week, then that starts to feel like it could fall off quick.

28:55 Because it would be 3-0 in the division because they would have beaten everybody, at least one. So the worst case would be a split. So maybe that's really what the odds are suggesting. It's more of a, hey, if they beat the Lions, it's just really, really hard for them to not make the playoffs.

29:07 To tell you how you feel about the game this week, if you like the Lions to win this week, go bet the Vikings to miss the playoffs. And if you like the Vikings to win this week, don't go make that bet.

29:17 I just went to bettingpros.com and put a no bet at plus 475 for the Vikings to make the playoffs. So let's ride.

29:25 I like it. D-Bro, let's stick with the Vikings here for your big takeaway. We'll clear the paint. We'll let you go to work here. You were stretching those hamstrings for the victory lap before the show, as you told us. Let's let's let's not go too overboard here, even though I know you want to. But, you know, take take some time and celebrate your boy.

29:43 So the reality is, is nobody should have been shoving J.J. McCarthy into a dumpster when he hadn't even started a full complement of an entire regular season of games. So my point right here is so J.J. McCarthy isn't a bust, huh? He's not a bust, huh? Because I was told by national media, all of Vikings fandom, hell, everybody in the known universe that he was god-awful, he was a terrible quarterback, he was the next Josh Rosen, he was never going to do anything ever again in the NFL, and he was terrible to begin with. I'll let the numbers push back on that for me. Amongst 39 qualifying quarterbacks right now in the NFL, J.J. McCarthy, first in yards per attempt, fifth in catchable target rate, Seventh in CPOE, first by

30:31 a mile in hero throw rate. The closest competitors to him in hero throw rate, Lamar Jackson, CJ Stroud, Jared Goff, good quarterbacks, living in that 5.8, 6.3% range. And McCarthy's up in the 14% range. Also just led the Giants to a win, almost led them, should have led them to a win against the Saints because I will consistently say Isaiah Likely, that was a penalty. Again, we can't go back and rewrite that. But if J.J. McCarthy leads the NFC East leading Giants to the playoffs, boys, we are going to have a very, very interesting offseason in New York. And the thing that I always thought was so insane about all the J.J. stuff was like, dude, like his numbers on a per dropback basis were never

31:17 as bad as everybody painted them to be. He improved his play over the back half of last season, but everybody said, oh, it's because the defenses or oh, whatever. Or they just piled on him on every other bad play. But the same consistencies weren't had for every other quarterback of his class. People don't do that for Caleb Williams. Hell, he was on the front of a freaking Madden cover.

31:38 And he had a worse catchable throw rate. So yes, J.J. McCarthy. I never gave up the faith. And I still believe in him. Because I think he's a good quarterback. And now we're seeing a player playing with confidence in a room where... It's so great to see him playing with confidence because the thin line for players in the NFL, they have to play with this innate confidence of, it doesn't matter whether I can jump over that building. I have to believe I can jump over that building. And from his entire tenure in Minnesota, it was like they tried to rework everything about how he played quarterback, how he threw the ball, how he read defenses, how he ran an offense, all the parts or pieces. You're seeing

32:20 a quarterback now It's playing with confidence. He's letting it rip. And he looks damn good doing it, guys. And the final point I'll make here, because everybody will also say, well, he's only played the Saints and the Texans, and those defenses aren't good either. Just tell me you didn't watch the film. If that's the point that people are going to lead with, just tell me you didn't watch a single freaking snap of either one of those games. Because the throws that he's putting on film are absolutely awesome.

32:51 And the way that he's layering passes and the throws that he's making, you're making those throws against a bad defense or a good defense. It's impressive nonetheless. Okay, pencils down.

33:03 I'll shut up.

33:05 Let me quickly, D-Bro, follow up with this before bringing Erickson. Seven months from now, we're in the middle of the NFL offseason. It's ranking season on all the shows. They're doing their quarterback rankings on some episode of some national media pockets. Where is JJ McCarthy falling? What will be his consensus sort of general range seven months from now?

33:25 Obviously we don't know what the rest of the season is going to look like, but I'm asking you to sort of make your projection here, put your money where your mouth is. He will be in what range of quarterback rankings?

33:34 He will be. So a lot of this is contingent upon how he plays out the rest of the season and what that looks like. If he does what is possible for this team, He continues to play good. Is there going to be bumps in the road? Sure, there will be. But if he leads the Giants to the playoffs, if he continues to play, even at like 75% of the level that he's playing at right now, he's going to be ranked. You're going to see almost an overcorrection by the national media because of all the horrible takes that were out there about JJ and the fact that he was made into a meme. The national media will put him probably somewhere in the 15 to 16, 17 range.

34:15 I think he'll be above that.

34:18 Okay.

34:18 That below or ahead of Bo Nix? Oh, easily.

34:22 Dunk on Bo Nix now. Dunk on Bo Nix now. Which, again, a player that I was low on as a prospect. Never wrong. Just early, boys.

34:29 Well, no, because I bring up because they were all because that quarterback.

34:32 Class, right?

34:32 Above or below Michael Penix. Give me JJ.

34:35 First round quarterbacks. I think that's really where the discussion is.

34:39 I do think he'll be ahead of Michael Penix at those rankings. Bo Nix, I'm not even saying he shouldn't be ahead of him. I don't like Bo Nix very much, but like five and two, we're actually gonna talk about the Broncos later in the show, but like if they keep winning games, like I don't think McCarthy is gonna be ranked ahead of him by national media members. Again, I'm not saying it's right or wrong. 15th, 16th feels high to me. I was thinking like even low 20s would be like, that would be an incredible season for McCarthy given where the reputation was coming into this season.

35:05 If he could be like QB 22 or 23 in, those sorts of rankings would be incredibly impressive. Like top half of the NFL. I don't think there'll be a overcorrection that gets there, but I, I mean, I could be right. If he plays awesome, he was awesome this week. No doubt about it. If he continues to play awesome, then, then sure.

35:23 I mean, just play it out though. Like if he continues to play awesome and because if he does that and say like he leads the giants to the playoffs, which right now they're, they're leading the NFC East. We've, we've called it the NFC least on this show. Numbers of times before, Just look at... I'll just go back to a similar Giants quarterback. Not a similar, but a similar narrative street with all of this. Just look at the rise and fall of Daniel Jones. Like where he was basically a meme. He was garbage. He led the Giants and Brian Dayball's first year to the playoffs and stuff like that. Everybody jumps on the train and they believe in him and stuff like that. And I'm not saying J.J. McCarthy is freaking Daniel Jones. I'm not saying

36:02 that at all. He's better than Daniel Jones. Always has been. But to that point... I think you're going to see as much hate was out there in the national media, there will be a massive overcorrection because this is what happens every single time. People love to crown people too early. People love a redemption story. People love all of that stuff.

36:23 So eventually I think that you will see a slight over career over correction with all of that. But, but I mean, maybe I'm crazy guys. Does that sound wrong to you though? If he does leave the giants of the playoffs, uh, And all that stuff happens. And then we walk into an offseason where it's like, this is a real question. Next year, who is the starting quarterback for the New York Giants?

36:43 Is it J.J.

36:43 McCarthy or is it Jackson Dart?

36:47 Yeah, that is a really interesting question to pose, especially if, to your point, They make the playoffs. They are in the driver's seat right now, sitting at 4-2-1, especially when you just look at the other teams in this division where no one really seems like they're going on an upward trajectory, where the Giants right now have a lot of momentum, right, coming off this big win against the Houston Texans over that 10.5-point underdogs.

37:06 And I agree with you.

37:07 Again, the McCarthy numbers look really great. Just watching him play, like, he just looks comfortable in this offense. And it just, he looked so out of place at times in Minnesota with what they were doing with him. I know that I mentioned to you in our Slack channel, but, like, The way that they're using his legs a little bit more, the RPOs in this offense. I get that the reason why they traded for McCarthy or part of the reason was because they could reinstall the Jackson Dart offense in New York, which they could not do with James Winston.

37:33 And it's kind of it kind of sucks because it's like, oh, this could have been even like an even better version. It had Jackson Dart not gotten hurt there.

37:41 Right.

37:41 Like, what would this team be like if Dart was actually state health of the entire way? Like, would they be six and out? Would that be a 7-0 team just based on what this offense has shown from a ceiling perspective when the quarterback is able to operate at a high level? And I think, too, the fact that McCarthy doesn't have the weight of the world on his shoulders anymore, where you have to be the savior, you have to be amazing. No, because we don't even know if you're going to be the quarterback for the Giants next year. So he can play loose. He can play aggressive.

38:08 That's what he's always done best. It's throwing the ball downfield, being aggressive. Again, he had a high hero throw rate last year. He made a ton of big time throws last year, but it was compounded by the big misses and Justin Jefferson pouting and the fact that, okay, he's not doing exactly what we want, even though they were actually still winning games in Minnesota, even when McCarthy was the starting quarterback. So again, the matchup really worked in his favor with the Texans. Again, I don't, I don't think the Texan defense is bad. Now they're not as good as they were last year. And they've given up a lot of explosive plays, which kind of played into what McCarthy does really well as targeting the ball downfield.

38:41 So I know when you pose the question about the rankings, I was kind of thinking like fringe top 20. Like that's kind of where my mind kind of settled. So kind of in between, which I kind of, obviously D bro, you're going to be the highest.

38:52 Yeah.

38:52 That doesn't surprise me. And then I'm kind of coming a little bit more conservative, but look, he's still a really young quarterback, right? Like, That's the biggest thing. Like when you compare him to someone like Michael Penix, Michael Penix, what he's 26, 27 years old already. Tyler Shuck, 26, 27 years old already. Like these aren't young quarterbacks. Like they're young in terms of experience, but Jason McCarthy actually is a young quarterback in terms of his actual age.

39:15 He missed his entire rookie year because of injury. So I think the biggest thing too, is he has to stay healthy, right? Like that's what really derails this in any capacity. Obviously with most quarterbacks is obviously injury, but with McCarthy McCarthy specifically, because he has been dealing with a ton of injuries. so that's the only thing i'm just like in the back of my mind because they are using his legs a little bit more in this offense they got to keep him upright they got to keep him protected and i hope that you know this offense can i've been the big one of the biggest things i've been wrong about is this offense overall with matt nagy and greg roman and callahan like The fact that they've kind of been able to design this type

39:49 of offense with this type of quarterback, you know, applaud them. I did not think they had it in them after what these guys had done in their separate stints, but maybe you put all these boomers together and it just, and it just like works because so far the Giants office has been really fun.

40:01 And that's, that's another point. I'm glad you, you let us hear Erickson for all of the, the worries that I think collectively media space, all of us had to, man, Aggie's doing a pretty damn good job, man. Like, can we also say like, like he's.

40:18 Not the backfield. The backfield stuff is annoying.

40:21 No, but that also comes down to, like, do they have a real answer in the backfield? Is the backfield stuff based out of necessity? Because they obviously do not believe in Cam Scadaboo. More on that later.

40:30 Maybe they get a guy.

40:32 More on that later. Maybe they should go get a guy.

40:35 Go get a guy.

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41:02 That's FPPOD to get $ 25 free after you deposit just $ 10. Erickson, what's your number two reaction this week?

41:10 Fernando Mendoza watch. Is it happening here in Las Vegas? So I brought this question up because Clint Kubiak is already getting questions about, OK, like, are we going to go to the future now? We've lost four games in a row. And if you're Kubiak, I don't know if this really makes a lot of sense to pull the plug on Kirk Cousins. I was actually kind of amazed.

41:31 He leads the NFL in passing touchdowns this year, Kirk Cousins, at 16. And to look at him and be like, you know what? You're the reason we've lost the last four games in a row, which couldn't be anything from the truth.

41:44 Look, has he been played perfect?

41:45 No.

41:46 But I don't think it's really his issue that's holding back this Raiders team from winning games. It's because they had to go up a weight class in competition over their last four games, and the defense has failed the test in four straight games. Like, defense has been absolutely atrocious over the last four games that they've played. So, I'm trying to pull up the numbers I had for them, given the their defensive struggles.

42:12 Eric. So while you're looking for that, also, can I, can I ask you a question with all of this?

42:18 Yes.

42:18 Do we want to throw Fernando Mendoza out to this part of the schedule where they are going to play after they play the jets, they play the 49ers, the Seahawks, the Broncos, and then the Browns. Is that really where we want to expose?

42:30 And I talked about this last night, actually on the betting pro show, we talked a little bit about Mendoza and I've, I've made it this point. I was like, they either need to start him this week and say, at least he gets one under his belt against the jets or, or they got to wait till after the bye. Cause that is a brutal stretch.

42:43 I think you wait until after that and you let him start versus the chargers, Broncos, Tennessee Titans, Cardinals and chiefs to kick it off. It might be like chiefs backups considering at that point of the season.

42:53 So the defense since week four, they have allowed an average of 35.8 points and 416 and a half yards per game to add more concerns about throwing Mendoza into the situation. Do you want to put a rookie quarterback in when his defense is giving up bleeding points to every offense that they face, putting you into pass-heavy game scripts?

43:16 Because the Raiders can't run the ball, right?

43:19 At all.

43:21 It's crazy how Ashton Gentry, his fantasy production is all about the receiving game. I look at his box score this past week. I'm like, oh my God, dude, this guy was a mega bust. And then I look at, oh, he would have caught eight passes.

43:32 He's Alvin Kamara. Is he not Alvin Kamara right now in Las Vegas?

43:35 Like we're kind of, we're fine for fantasy. So this is something that I, when is this going to change?

43:42 Or is this going to change?

43:42 I mean, they had all these investments in the offensive line, bringing in Tyra Linderbaum, getting the guys healthy on the tackle positions. The run game looks broken like it did last year. Now, obviously, sometimes these things take time to gel. We saw last year Ben Johnson's offense from the run game perspective was not good to start the year. But the big difference was they had an early bye week.

44:02 And then they were able to kind of fix things out of their bye week, which I believe was like in week four, week five. And then they ran really effectively the rest of the season. The Raiders don't have that luxury, right? Their bye week is still weeks away. So is this run game going to get fixed? Is the defense going to get fixed? Kubiak has talked about, hey, we got to go back and watch the film to make adjustments. And I don't think his takeaway from watching the film is going to be, you know what, Kirk Cousins, you may leave the NFL passing touchdowns. I think we've got to sit you down to put Mendoza in it.

44:29 And like, this is coming from someone that I wanted Mendoza in like right away. I have tickets for him to win offensive rookie of the year, which don't help when he's not playing. So for me, I think that the Raiders probably have to keep rolling with Kirk. Maybe they lose two, three more games. Maybe they're like, all right, like let's just get him out there because the season is kind of going down the toilet because of our other issues on defense, which Kubiak, That's not his domain, right?

44:54 He's an offensive-minded head coach. How is he going to fix the defense?

44:57 The defense is– I will just say– sorry to interrupt, Erickson.

45:00 No, go ahead.

45:01 It is a really tough four-game stretch for any defensive face. Kansas City, New England with Drake May playing well again, the Bills, and then the Rams, Sean McVay, Matthew Stafford. I think a lot of defenses would struggle in those four straight games. Now, they've struggled maybe more than you would like to see. They've been really, really bad. But it is like you could hardly have had a bigger swing from the start of their schedule to the last month of their schedule in terms of the competition you're going up against. So, you know, I'm actually really curious to see how they do against the Jets, like sort of a more middle of the pack. Like they're definitely not good, but they're definitely not as terrible as, you know,

45:34 like the Chargers have been this year or anything like that. So I'm curious to see what this league looks like specifically for the Vegas defense.

45:40 So to the point that you posed the question, can Las Vegas fix the run game? Not unless this offensive line turns around massively. Boys, do you want to know who has the lowest yards before contact per attempt in the entire NFL as an offensive line? Yeah, it's the Las Vegas Raiders. They're not even giving the running backs one yard before they're hit. One yard. It's at.

46:04 91.

46:04 Just for context... The next closest horrible run-blocking offensive line is the Cincinnati Bengals at 1.32. It's... So, like... And also, when you understand the archetype of running back that Ashton Gentry is, he's not like this 4-3 speed guy where it's immediate and actual burst. He's a volume back. Get it? Like, where he does his best work is giving him a crease and allowing him to get into the second level of a defense. Even fully healthy... I mean, this is what we saw for Ashton Gentry last year. So, if they...

46:38 So I am very much on the side of do not play Fernando. Not with barely any offensive weapons outside of Brock Bowers. Ashton Gentry is not healthy. Your defense is suspect. You're going to be put in pass heavy game scripts, whether you like it or not, because your defense and the constitution of everything, just this depth chart and the offensive line is not good. Like they're not run blocking well. They're being kind of hidden because of the low time to throw for the Raiders passing attack that have, okay, are they even good at pass protecting? Well, the numbers aren't horrible, but when it's get the ball out of your freaking hands or you're going to get annihilated, it kind of helps your offensive line numbers.

47:19 I think one thing that they could try and do their team, that could definitely be a buyer at the trade deadline because they have the future of Fernando Mendoza so they can get a player that What if they trade for Quentin Nelson, right? Let's upgrade one of our interior offensive line positions, try to create more space for running backs. Why can we add a deep threat wide receiver? Hello, Brian Thomas jr. Hello, please make it easier so that it's not as easy for teams to stack the box against these Raiders running backs, having a legitimate deep threat.

47:47 We'd like Trey Tucker. We'd like him, but like, is he really like forcing defense? Oh, we got to make sure we have a too high shell because they have Trey Tucker. Like he's not that type of gravitational pull. Whereas Brian Thomas jr. in the right offense, we saw what he did his rookie year. Like, we know that this guy can be a big play threat down the field and is going to force defenses to at least pay attention to him and open things up underneath for the tight ends, for Brock Bowers, and especially for this run game. So that's one thing that I think the Raiders should look at when it comes to, hey, we're not a threat downfield. Like, that's what we need to improve here. And I know they have some guys on

48:20 the roster like, The Thornton guy they drafted last year, he's a high-speed guy. But to me, I think that the Raiders would be buying, almost not even depending on what their record is. Because I think that whoever they end up buying could be a part of their future plans in 2027.

48:37 We got to move on. Debro, let's go to your reaction. You were just talking about the running situation. You want to talk about some other backfields in the NFL.

48:44 Who has the top three as far as the best one-two punch as far as running backs in the NFL? And we can kind of narrow some of this. I kind of composed a list of like at least off the dome, like what I think are the best, like at least in the conversation for best one, two punches as far as running backs go in the NFL. But I'm curious where we sit with the top three guys.

49:03 So let's whittle this list down pretty fast. Okay. Ramondre, Steven, Travion Henderson. Are they in the conversation?

49:09 I'm going to say no.

49:10 I wouldn't put them in.

49:11 The top three. I don't either. So good. Clean sweep. DeAndre Swift, Kyle Menongai. I think they're firmly in the conversation.

49:18 Yes, for sure.

49:20 Moving on. Kenneth Walker and Emma Johnson. I think that that could be a surprise for a lot of people. I think Emma's really freaking good. Thoughts, guys?

49:26 For me, that's more of like a top six in the NFL than a top three. I think it's fair to have them in the conversation. I don't think they're in the top three, but I do think it's worth shouting them because Emma Johnson's really good.

49:37 I think it's a good honorable mention. All right.

49:39 I think it's still too much like it's Ken Walker and Emma Johnson just like happy to be on.

49:43 But they're worth a mention for sure.

49:45 The Robinson twins in Atlanta.

49:47 I would have them in this conversation.

49:49 All right. Erickson, you agree? You co-sign that?

49:52 I just, I think Brian Robinson.

49:53 Which is very mid.

49:54 Okay. Let me just quickly before you go to the next one, D-Bro. Are we saying who has the best backup? Because that's not, the best is one, two. Bijan being the number one. is really relevant to this being a one, two. They have one of the two best running backs.

50:06 I think it's in some of the parts. It's both the running backs in this. Because we're going to talk about a lot of elite guys, but also.

50:13 I think Brian Robinson is good enough as a backup that the fact that he's paired with maybe the best running back in the NFL makes them very much a contender for this conversation. I wouldn't... Okay, so we disagree on this one.

50:23 Okay, okay.

50:25 We'll leave him out. For the sake and point, just for elimination's sake, Aaron Jones and Jordan Mason, we're eliminating them easy, right?

50:33 No.

50:33 Yes. Okay.

50:34 No.

50:35 Ashton Genting and Mike Washington.

50:37 No, I would not put them there.

50:38 All right. Okay. We're, we're whittling this down fast boys, Bucky Irving and Kenneth Gainwell.

50:44 Okay.

50:45 No, not for me. So I mean, it's, it's a one, two punch that they keep trying to sell us on. It doesn't actually exist.

50:50 So the only one we've, we've collectively said yes to is Deandre Swift and Kyle Manon guys. So if the final two are in the, we have our top three and then we can just talk about who is the best. So Brees Hall and Braylon Allen. I think considering what Braylon has done this year, I didn't expect to be here, but I'm kind of here.

51:10 So I definitely think they're worth having a conversation about. For me, I would put the Atlanta duo over the Jets duo. But I think they both deserve to be in that conversation.

51:20 I think the Jets duo over the Atlanta duo for me, only because Braylon, I think, this year has shown me a lot, man. I wasn't expecting to see this version of Braylon Allen. Erickson would be the tiebreaker.

51:30 I guess for me, it's, we still haven't seen the, but we haven't seen this one, two duo like in action this year.

51:36 Right.

51:36 Like even when Breeze Hall was healthy, did we see, oh, Hall and Allen.

51:40 No, but you've seen both of them carry the starters load and do really well with it. So regardless of seeing both of them or not.

51:46 But when you ask the question is, but this isn't who has the top two running backs. It's who has the best one, two punch. And when I think about that, I think about how they compliment each other. And I think that like conceptually, yes, this makes so much sense, but it hasn't really played out that way. Like, when we're talking about this in a month and Brees Hall comes back healthy, it's like, oh wait, this backfield is so sick. They have to be in the top three, which I agree, but I think it's still more of a projection versus like, I mean, we've already seen DeAndre Swift and Kyle Maddon guy like do this and be a one-two punch and be really great. Whereas Aaron Glenn keeps telling us, oh, we love this one-two punch with

52:17 Braylon Allen and Brees Hall and it's like- But.

52:18 To your point, do we see that once Brees comes back now considering what Braylon Allen has done?

52:24 Yeah.

52:25 Okay, so we're projecting a little bit, but I think also it's a conversation about the talent of both these guys and what they've both done.

52:32 I would just say to your point, like we have, again, we have seen the Atlanta guys use them as they want to punch and both have big games in the same, same game and kind of come in and compliment each other. So like, I do think they, they kind of fit that narrative a little better than the Jets do, honestly.

52:45 Yeah. Worms got a little bit of, and I think obviously a shoe in is Kyron and Blake Corum.

52:49 Yeah. I was going to say that to me, Chicago and the Rams are the two, like no doubt about it.

52:54 So one actually that you guys didn't. So actually, please, please.

52:58 Yeah.

52:58 I put a Jalen Warren and Rico.

53:02 They came to mind for me. And I was like, I don't know if I want to make the, like, again, that feels more like a top six or seven than a top three.

53:09 This is so, they are so thunder and lightning and they're both good.

53:13 Like, Oh my gosh.

53:15 I can't believe I left them off.

53:17 So I would put them– they were in my top three when I was doing it.

53:21 Off the cuff. They're more like six for me. But again, it's deserving of the conversation.

53:24 Okay. So we can whittle this down to like– we got like I think a submitted kind of top five here, right?

53:30 So it sounds to me like basically one and two in some order is Chicago and the Rams. And then we all kind of have a different like potential third. It could be the Steelers. It could be the Falcons. It could be the Jets. Those feel like the next three.

53:41 That's fair.

53:42 I feel like I'm now– like– And I will apologize as the J1 Warren truther. Oh, my gosh. I feel so bad that I did not– I came on this show and said he is the most underrated running back in the NFL, and I'm underrating him. I feel terrible now. So now he's in my top three. That's– overcorrection season is here. So– Yeah. Oh, man.

54:03 I think that's fair. Can we settle– can we agree on that as a top five, though?

54:06 Yeah.

54:07 Oh, yeah.

54:07 I think that's a very, like, submitted top five.

54:10 We do have a lot more tops to get to, so we got to move on. But– Kyron and Corum.

54:14 Kyron and Corum is number one.

54:15 They're number one ahead of Chicago for you. I actually do agree. I didn't know if you guys were going to disagree with me, though. Kyron and Corum is number one easy.

54:21 No, because it's just like great running back. wanting great running.

54:25 Back i think kyron versus swift is a wash i think blake corm is a better running back than kyle manon guy and this is no shade to kyle manon guy like.

54:33 Well i also don't think it's a wash i think kyron's better than swift too so i think they are probably both a little not by a lot i think they are both a little bit better than their counterpart that's fair.

54:42 Especially in some of the dude some of the games where we've seen kyron used in like a full cmc type of role has been incredibly impressive.

54:50 Ben Johnson also is one of the, like maybe the best run game coordinator in, in football. And so like that, I'm not trying to take away from a guy, but like that's a benefit that they have splitting air. He's very good at that too, of course, but yes. So, all right, well, let's keep the rankings going for my number two reaction here. Zay flowers guys. We were really excited about him early on in the season. And then we haven't really talked about him in the show that much in the last couple of weeks. And I think it's time to bring it back. He had another one of those epic first halves this season, but, He is the what best wide receiver in the NFL, the blank best wide receiver. Where does he rank for you guys?

55:23 I'm going to throw out some stats for you. He has three different halves this season with 119 yards, at least, and a touchdown. In the first half of week one, he had 150 and a touchdown. In the first half of week four, he had 119 and a touchdown. First half of week seven, 120 and a touchdown. He is wide receiver six on the season, despite missing time. He...

55:47 has 40 catches for 608 yards and three touchdowns this season. Second yards per outrun behind only JSN on the year. Omar Cooper is also higher, but he's missed some time. So if you take that out with the smaller sample size, he's behind only JSN in yards per outrun. Guys, he has played just four halves this season with Lamar Jackson.

56:06 The two of them have been on the field for four halves of football this year. And by the way, two of those halves were when Zay was really limited in Brazil. We weren't even sure he was going to play, and he came back and played limited staffs. He's played two healthy halves of football with Lamar Jackson this season, and he's putting up these types of numbers. I was looking through the wide receiver rankings, you know, coming here to make this conversation, and obviously there are a few names that are clearly, no doubt about it, better than Zay Flowers. I'm not going to get crazy and say he's better. So Jamar Chase is better. JSN is better.

56:40 Puka went on the field is better. He has the off-field stuff. hanging over that Amon Ross St. Brown is better. And despite the lack of stats stuff, I don't.

56:48 Know if Amon Ross is better.

56:50 Amon Ross is so consistent. He's like, he's like one of the only receivers ever to be putting up this like a hundred catches, thousand yards, 10 touchdowns, just three straight years in a row. It's he's so consistent. And then Justin Jefferson, I was going to say, I know it's, it's the quarterback that's limiting him. He's, he's, he's still better.

57:05 The guy, the two, I wasn't sure about it were CD lamb and Drake London. I think Zay is at worst the next name up after those in terms of real life NFL, not talking fantasy, the way he's playing right now. I think if he and Lamar had been healthy all season, this would be like similar to the JSN breakout last year, statistically, just like what he's doing.

57:24 Absolutely unbelievable. So again, for me, there's four or five that I think are definitely ahead. One or two that are like, I think it's arguable he's in that tier. And then I don't think you can make the case. So like at worst, we're talking the eighth best receiver in the NFL. For a guy who, by the way, everybody was making fun of his contract this offseason, and that sure looks silly now.

57:44 I wasn't. No, we weren't.

57:45 We were like, yes.

57:47 Well, national media is foolish. You got a lot of people talking out their butts and don't know what they're talking about. So there's that. Dude, I think the Amonra line is really, really good. The only name you didn't mention that I think is above him, so I think it's Jason, Chase, Puka, Malik Neighbors is above him. I think Neighbors is above him. I was making a list on the fly as you were rolling through names. I think other players' names to evoke in here, you said CeeDee Lamb, Drake London, Chris Alave. I don't think Jefferson is still in this rarefied air. I just, I think Jefferson's fall off came last year, but that's a conversation for a different day. I think the Aminra line is, and,

58:23 but that, I think Zay is a top six receiver. I truly do.

58:29 Neighbors is in the Puka category of when he's on the field. Yes, he is better. It just has not always been there, but. obviously like yes that's a good one to include like i.

58:37 Think there's a cemented top four there's json chase neighbors and puka is my top four right now again just doing this off the fly yeah and i think the conversation for zay flowers starts in that five six range with him and aminara like.

58:51 I feel like i have to give it to aminara just the level consistency.

58:55 Yeah i don't disagree with that but i will say if you put zay flowers drop airdrop him into the same circumstance as aminara's head in a pass-heavy offense over the last few years where it wasn't bottom three, bottom five, say flowers is putting up similar stats not i'm not i'm not gonna say the same but dude his he's so dang good like people look at zay flowers and his size sorry warren but like they look at his size and like and they say well say flowers isn't that good versus man coverage he can't be press and i'm like based off of what what Nothing real of consequence.

59:30 No stats.

59:31 I mean, again, Erickson, he would be on pace to break the receiving record this season if he had been healthy with Lamar so far, it feels like. The way they have played when they've been on the field together and both are healthy, he has been on a record-shattering pace. That could slow down, of course. I'm not saying he would have broken the record, but again, it felt like when we've seen them on the field together in this version of the offense, it felt like JSN a year ago.

59:57 What he's able to do after the catch is unreal. I think that if you want to make the argument for the best player with the ball in their hands after the catch, I think right. I mean, Zay, I think has the most yards out of the catch. It's probably up there with JSN. I don't know how the exact numbers, but dude, that's how he's doing so much of his damage. It reminded me so much of what he was doing in the first half against that Bengals defense is what Jamar Chase usually does to the Ravens defense every single year where he's just like, he gets the ball and he's like, well, there's another touchdown for this wide receiver that nobody on this defense can catch.

1:00:32 And that was the breakaway touchdown, right? It's like, oh, the Bengals, oh, they're going to catch up. Nope, gone. Touchdown.

1:00:37 Like doesn't even, doesn't even need red zone usage to score touchdowns. Like that's how good St. Flowers has been after the catch. So I think that the Amon Ra discussion is a little bit nuanced because you're kind of comparing a little bit of receivers that work in different ways because Amon Ra, again, so consistent, just great hands, I mean, he broke the record for most catches in the first six years of an NFL player, like a wide receiver this past week. So, yeah, to your point, like the body of work with Amon Ra has been like every single year. It's 100 catches, 1300 yards, double digit touchdowns, like clockwork. So that's something that you can't just wave away with Amon Ra, whereas Zayflower, yes, a

1:01:15 surging player right now entering year four, definitely the best year of his career so far. And the fact that what he's able to do after the catch is just absolutely phenomenal.

1:01:23 It's electric.

1:01:24 Just for all the haters out there, over the last two seasons, so since 2025, amongst 72 qualifying wide receivers, because I know people are going to say, oh, he's talking out of his butt versus man coverage with Zay Flowers. Okay, fine. Here's numbers. 72 qualifying wide receivers versus man coverage. Zay Flowers is second. Actually, he's not second. He's tied in separation score with JSN, and he's third in route win rate, behind only JSN and Devontae Adams. He's really freaking good.

1:01:55 Yeah, he is excellent. We're going really long here, so I still want to get in these final reactions.

1:02:00 We can speedrun mine, no doubt.

1:02:02 Yeah, let's just speedrun these because we did want to talk about them. I'll actually go first because I think mine's the quickest. Are the Broncos actually good or not? They're 5-2. We don't really believe in Bo Nix. We're frustrated by this offense. It's a pain to watch. But again, they're 5-2. If they win this week against the Chiefs, they're going to be in first place in that division right now. Which is kind of crazy to think about.

1:02:23 So Debra, I ask you, are the Broncos actually good? No.

1:02:28 There is one thing that they are elite at and the rest of things are questionable or terrible. Their offensive line is still above average. You could say they're very good. That's fine. Not going to push back on that. They are an elite pass defense. As a run defense, horrible. As a run offense, horrible. As a passing offense, horrible.

1:02:48 Bo Nix, horrible. No. No.

1:02:52 Having said that, Erickson, they've beaten the Jags, who we really like. They've beaten the Rams, who are really talented. They've beaten the Seahawks, who just looked really good against the previously undefeated Chiefs last night and are defending champs. So they have three really impressive wins under their belt this season. Are the 5-2 Broncos good?

1:03:09 And their two losses are against teams that entered Week 7 undefeated. The loss of the Chiefs, the loss of the 49ers. So for me, Denver... I don't think it's fair to say they're not a good team because they are, their last 21 games, they are 18 and three. Like this team finds ways to win. So they're not without their warts. Of course, they were left off our top seven AFC teams last week. And I noted that as, okay, like one team that could potentially make noise here would be the Denver Broncos. They won again against the Arizona Cardinals.

1:03:41 It was not pretty. So to me, above average is probably more of a better way to describe them. And they're going to kind of be in the mix. I think maybe it's like, are they a contender or not, right? And I think that we probably all agree that they don't feel like a contender. But I mean, you got to give credit where they find ways to win games, right?

1:03:59 And again, that's sometimes one of the best things about some of these teams is it's not pretty. Sometimes you got to win ugly, but they do it. And their schedule is going to get a lot easier as the season progresses. Again, it was brutal to start the year. The fact that they're five and two, like, I think you got to give them some credit. And to the run game, hey, Jonah Coleman. Let's get this guy going.

1:04:18 There are paths and ways where you can see this team potentially improving over the next couple of weeks. And look, we've seen good versions of Bo Nix before. So it's just a matter of, can that guy show up at some point for this offense that has kind of been going through growing pains with the play callers switching and all these things going on. So I guess, I don't know if I answered the question, like good or not there.

1:04:37 They're above average, is my opinion.

1:04:40 You stated the question or you framed it as they find ways to win. The only difference that I have there is I think they find ways not to lose games by playing safe as an offense and allowing their defense to suffocate teams once they get a lead because their pass defense is so good and unleashing the pass rush.

1:04:58 I think they find ways not to lose games as opposing ways to find ways to win it.

1:05:03 Let's keep the rapid fire going here, Erickson. I'll go to you next. Who's going to win the NFC South is your question.

1:05:10 Yeah, so I have the odds listed right here. So the Panthers are currently favorites at plus 150, followed by the Falcons at plus 220, then Tampa Bay at 5-1, and the Saints at 9-1. So who do you think wins, or who is.

1:05:23 Your favorite bet? My favorite bet of those is the Falcons.

1:05:26 At 2-1 or 220?

1:05:27 Yeah.

1:05:29 But favorite is relative to this is the toughest division to predict. It's not that, like, I'm not banging the table for it.

1:05:36 Again, none of these teams have a winning record. Carolina's winning 3-3.

1:05:39 Atlanta is such a clear delineation between pre-Cooper Rush and post-Cooper Rush, getting Michael Penix back. I should say, yeah, not pre-Cooper Rush, but Cooper Rush pre-Michael Penix. That, to me, they're the one that has the best chance of just going on. I mean, they just beat the team that we thought was the best team in the NFL last I'm not saying that makes them the best team in the NFL. They're far from it, in my opinion. But I think this is the best team in the division when Michael Penix Jr. is healthy. So if he stays healthy for the rest of the day, I think they win the division. And the fact that they're not favorites, I think, is a benefit.

1:06:09 I'll take the Falcons. And the only reason I'm taking the Falcons is because they have the best defensive unit. Tampa Bay's pass defense has been improving, but they cannot rush the passer. The Saints' defense has fallen apart, and it's got awful. The Panthers... have been playing a little bit above their heads as far as an offense and a defense. I think some of that's coming back to earth.

1:06:28 If Bryce Young, if he looks as bad of the next few games as he looked last week, which I don't think he does, but at the same time, I don't think their defense is like a solution for them. I'll take the Falcons. Although, you know, like we said, like every team has their own warts. I guess I'm backing the best defense out of this division.

1:06:49 The Falcons have a really tough stretch starting week nine of Bengals, Chiefs, bye week at Minnesota versus Detroit. But outside of that four-game stretch, the rest of their schedule is pretty manageable.

1:07:03 Yeah, so really, can they play defense, and can Bajon Robinson take over games? And if they can do that.

1:07:07 Yeah, all they gotta do is win enough games to get to play Carolina again and beat Carolina.

1:07:12 Yeah, that's fair.

1:07:12 Because Carolina has the tiebreaker, I believe, against them, which is why... Yeah, because Carolina destroyed them.

1:07:17 And the Saints have no defense, and they can't run the damn ball, so.

1:07:21 Yeah, dude, the Saints.

1:07:22 I mean, I wish, dude. It seems like it's just two steps back with the Saints. Every time it looks like they're going to make a step forward, they shoot themselves in the foot.

1:07:29 It's because their offensive line issues have become a problem, and really the defense has legit just fallen apart.

1:07:38 Debro, you want to play a little matchmaker here? Let's go really quickly and get out of here.

1:07:41 Yeah, I got a four-pack of players. Let's say, okay, all these four players get traded. Where do they go? Let's fight about it. Tony Pollard. My prediction is he goes to the Seattle Seahawks. Because they don't have a running back of consequence on that team right now. Jadarian Price, Zach Charbonnet, no, no, no, thank you. Can Tony Pollard go to Seattle, fix the run game woes, and just play the Kenneth Walker role of yesteryear? If Tony Pollard doesn't go to Seattle, where does he go, boys?

1:08:06 I honestly can't find a good spot for Tony Pollard.

1:08:08 I think Seattle's a perfect fit.

1:08:10 The thing I like about Seattle, as opposed to like a Jonathan Taylor, is they just spent a lot of draft capital on... a running back, even Jadarian Price. So they're not going to want to spend another huge amount of draft capital on a different running back. Pollard feels more attainable. So I like him for Seattle more than I like Jonathan Taylor for Seattle.

1:08:28 I guess if I had to say something, maybe the 49ers, just as more insurance for McCaffrey, if this thing is legit. Again, you know Robert Sala has a connection with Kyle Shanahan. You'd be like, hey, you want a veteran running back that is proven producer, can play on all three downs, Again, do they want to overload Kalon Black potentially as a rookie running back in an offense that's already down so many playmakers?

1:08:52 Maybe Pollard.

1:08:52 The only other place I could say Pollard is maybe the Vikings. Like if they're in Jones stuff.

1:08:57 The vikings i think is also live for running.

1:09:00 I was gonna say me like maybe if something else happens in the josh jacobs saga the packers if oh it's good like if he then ends up not being an option but i.

1:09:10 Just feel like a running back's not gonna fix the yeah he's not gonna fix the woes there is the like it doesn't matter what running back you bring in they're all gonna be horrible running behind that line.

1:09:19 All right, staying on the running back position, I think this is lock, set, forget. I'm just going to go ahead and just say it. Jonathan Taylor's going to the Giants. It makes too much sense, man. It feels too easy.

1:09:29 Too much sense.

1:09:31 They lost Saquon. They've been screaming for a bell cow running back. Erickson and I were talking about it, I think, earlier in the show. It's like they were in on Jeremiah Love. They were out on Kim Scadaboo. Harbaugh wants the bell cow running back to define his offense, regardless of whoever the quarterback is for this season and next season.

1:09:46 You know you got Jonathan Taylor running back. It makes too much sense, guys.

1:09:53 I might even argue against it.

1:09:54 No, and I think it's a wonderful marriage. I think it's beautiful. I think JT would be awesome for them. Okay, so moving on. Tariq Wolin, where does he go? I think the lock set for Get Fit, and this goes down to the Brad Holmes of it all. Brad, you gonna give away any draft capital? We shall see. Tariq Wolin to the Detroit Lions.

1:10:15 Yeah, that's a good one.

1:10:16 Cosign.

1:10:17 I was looking at a couple other teams, but I can't find one that's better than the Lions.

1:10:21 I mean, he would allow them to do exactly what they want to as far as play, press, man, as well as he's awesome in zone. So that ability, because a lot of corners you're getting, not everybody can man up and play press coverage. Tree can't.

1:10:36 Almost every contender could use another cornerback. It's just a position where you always could use another one. So like the lions, that's my point is like, yes, the bills could use one. I think the Ravens could use one. I think the nine, like, like a lot of teams out there could use one. You can't like, you can't find a better fit than the, than the lions. No, no, no.

1:10:55 And I'll also, this is the low hanging fruit. I kind of think the force Buckner, is he just going back to the 49ers? We're just going to reunite the man. The Colts get like a, a round four pick for him or round five pick, just any pick for him. It just makes too much sense, man.

1:11:11 Yeah, I think that makes sense.

1:11:12 A couple other names I threw out, the Rams, potentially, because they've had some defensive line injuries as well, putting Puna Ford on injured reserve, Kobe Turner went on injured reserve. So if they're looking for more bodies up front, I think that they make sense. And then just bad defensive lines in general, Carolina, Chicago.

1:11:28 The Bears.

1:11:29 The Bears make it. Oh, the Bears make a ton of sense. Damn, that's a good call. I didn't even think about the Bears, but the Bears make a ton of sense.

1:11:37 Their front seven could really use that heft. Yeah, that was going to be my call.

1:11:40 Kind of like they should have never traded Gervon Dexter away.

1:11:44 Oh, weird.

1:11:44 All right, we'll go ahead and wrap things up there. We went extra long for you guys. Hope everybody enjoyed the episode. Sorry, I had a 15-minute rant. For Erickson and DeVro, I'm Ryan Wormley. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you again next time.

1:12:06 Thank you.