Ravens Should SELL, Darkhorse MVP & First Coach Fired Predictions: NFL Week 9 Reactions (Ep. 2313)

0:01 Hello everybody. Welcome into the tailgate. I'm Ryan warmly joined by Derek Brown and by Andrew Erickson. We are reacting to all things week eight. I am moving a little slowly this morning and Debro was assuming it was because of the Raven season being over and me drowning my sorrows last night. I actually am just a little under the weather. So apologies to everybody in advance. If I end up coughing or sounding a little differently today, I am powering through. I am quite sad about the Raven season and everything going on there. We'll get to that momentarily, but, uh, That's where we're at here today. How are you guys doing?

0:30 How'd you enjoy Halloween weekend on a Saturday, D-Bro?

0:34 It was good, man, because usually Halloween with kids and stuff like that is on a weekday. So it's usually like hell in a handbasket trying to get them to freaking up and moving the next morning. So having it on a Saturday was great. Personally, Monday morning is always wonderful when you have a bounce back betting week. So I hit 70% of my bets for the weekend. Anybody tailing my action at betting pros knows that I hit 70% walking out eight units up for the week, hit a 19 to one parlay over the weekend, which was a very nice for the old wallet. So I got nothing to complain about boys. It's a good day.

1:08 Erickson. Did you take advantage of the Halloween on a Saturday with daylight saving time happening as well to give you the extra hour of sleep?

1:16 Yes, definitely did slept in on Sunday morning. It was absolutely glorious. Woke up, was able to update the rankings and, submit my bets, do my player props. Went 5-0 on the player props from the show I did with Welsh. Also hit an anytime touchdown bet. And the thing that's funny about that show, again, you should subscribe to the Betting Pros channel, listen to those shows as well, along with the Tailgate and Fantasy Pros. But I mentioned, speaking kind of sarcastically, that Welsh and I both picked Jaguars' first touchdowns. I picked Chris Rodriguez, and he picked, I don't remember, I don't remember who Welsh picked, but... Oh, he picked Travis Hunter. And I said, kind of talking tongue-in-cheek, oh,

1:59 we all know that Brian Thomas Jr. is going to score the first touchdown, right? Yeah. And that's exactly what happened. And I also referenced Rashad White as an anytime touchdown bet, but I took it off the card because I was a little spooked by how often they used Jeremy McNichols in the game before their bye week at the goal line.

2:17 And at least it looked early on in that Sunday night football game that McNichols was getting a lot of opportunities to... in some of these short down distance plays, then he got hurt. And then obviously we ended up scoring the touchdown. So I had everything, all the ingredients to a perfect eight and O type of day from that show. Still, we'll take the regular props. So I know we'll take the TJ Hawkinson. Anytime touchdown, you continue to bet on tight ends, facing the lines every single week to score touchdowns every single week. Greg Dulcich this week, baby lock lock of the week.

2:43 Yeah. I, um, I do have to give your Patriots a little bit of a flack here, Erickson. I bet the over for Eli Raritan and, uh, uh, wonderful matchup, and Hunter Henry gets hurt. And I bet the any time for Eli Raritan, he does nothing. You know, so giving your Patriots a little bit of flack on him, a few L's for the weekend.

3:02 You mentioned Hunter Henry getting hurt. Let's run through the injury roundup here in our News and Notes segment. Hunter Henry hurt his foot in that game. Bam Knight left the Cardinals game with a concussion. Jeremiah Love, an ankle. Michael Wilson is dealing with broken ribs. He made that great catch late in the game. Kendrick Bourne, high ankle sprain.

3:19 A lot of Cardinals here on this list. Jake Ferguson, ankle injury. Obviously, Lamar Jackson, the thumb injury on the very first play from scrimmage for the Ravens. Just like, what a deflating moment. And then also Tyler Huntley with the possible turf toe. He's getting an MRI done today. So Joe Fagnano is also not 100%. Their emergency third-string quarterback is also banged up. And they play out Thursday night football. He's hoping to be ready. Clearly, there needs to be some kind of move. Multiple moves probably for the Ravens at that position on a short week. Just absolutely devastating. And then also I know it's– we don't also talk about the defensive side, but Jack Campbell for the Lions, just prayers up to him and really, really

3:57 scary stuff. It's the worst thing to see in a football game is when that sort of stuff happens, the neck injury, of course. And was resting at the hospital as of last night. I didn't check for any updates this morning, but very much thinking about him, yeah. So he's there. Obviously the biggest, most impactful injury here in terms of the NFL season is Lamar Jackson. possibly out for the season. Jesse Minter didn't rule it out. I was seeing some of the Twitter doctors last night were saying if this is a sort of clean repair, then we could be looking at maybe like a week 14, 15 return. Given Lamar's history, he might decide not to come back given that there's no contract and if the season ends up being lost anyway. So I think it's

4:35 very on the table that this is a season-ending injury, which is obviously crushing. Erickson, I'll start with you. Just in terms of the Ravens, I mean, obviously the season is going to go in the wrong direction if Lamar really is out for the rest of the year they don't have the quarterback horses even if Huntley was healthy to really live up to Lamar we're going to talk about a little bit later what maybe the Ravens should do going forward but what was your reaction to seeing this injury from Lamar on the first play we were.

4:58 Robbed of a potentially superstar special season between Lamar Jackson and Zay Flowers yeah right we talked about it on a lot of different shows talked about in the trade show worm how finally we were going to get a couple games, a full game with Lamar Jackson and Zay Flowers. And we didn't get that. We didn't get more. We didn't get two plays. We got one play and that was it. So Zay Flowers numbers. I'm going to remind myself how elite he was. I'm going to have a sticky note so I remember all offseason how good Zay Flowers was and not forget and basically write off anything else that happens again. He'll still be effective, but you can only downgrade quarterback so much so often before you start to look at Flowers in terms of How he

5:38 can produce again this game he was total ghost and I think I had to do is going down to the third string quarterback to talk about in the broadcast where how much reps how many how much preparation did Fagano have in this offense probably none. And they even talked about how Declan Doyle had been setting up two game plans every single week for Huntley and Lamar Jackson.

5:57 And this was probably the one week that he didn't do that because he thought that Lamar was going to come back. And then both of those started with Carbex go down. So obviously, I mean, maybe Worm, is there a silver lining here where Declan Doyle now doesn't get poached and he has to stay with the Baltimore Ravens?

6:12 Is that kind of like the silver lining? OK, the Ravens are not going to be good for the rest of the season. They sell off and they keep Declan Doyle and Jesse Minter because well, you know, Declan Doyle, he did some fun things, but he couldn't make it work with Snoop Huntley and yada, yada, yada. So that was something I was kind of thinking about too when it comes to the Ravens rest of the season and even heading into 2027, which is where I think most Ravens fans are kind of ready to turn the chapter to, well, who are we going to draft?

6:37 Yeah, I will say I have some Ravens fans, like friends in my life who were texting me yesterday that Declan Doyle is actually not good. And like, because he couldn't do more with Joe Farnano. And I was like, OK, like what offensive play caller out there is going to do well with an undrafted rookie free agent quarterback who didn't expect to play coming in an emergency, who also got begged up on the road above Huskies?

7:00 Yeah.

7:00 So I was like, let's not overreact to that game there. I think that's totally possible. The other thing I keep thinking about, Debro, and Erickson mentioned this on the draft pick, is thank goodness they backed out of the Max Crosby deal and have their 2027 first next year. with the way the season is going, because if they didn't, this would be a Colts-like situation where you feel even worse about what it looks like. We're going to talk more later in the show about what they should do going forward, but again, just sort of your initial reaction to seeing this D-Bro, whether it's about Lamar or about Zay Flowers, who did have the first game in his career in the NFL without a catch.

7:31 Yeah, I mean, obviously you could spin this like it's a good thing that they didn't do the Max Crosby deal, but they did do the Cam Juergens deal, so, you know, that's not great, but it's a mess man like I mean I think we're gonna get to it later but I think that like this team is at an absolute crossroads I think like spinning it as a positive for Declan Doyle I get that like I could see that like because if not if Lamar is fully healthy if Zay goes ham if this offense looks freaking amazing and stuff like that for most of the season if Lamar is you know cooking and stuff then does Declan get head coach hire like at least sniffs or interviews in the offseason but now that probably doesn't happen because it's

8:08 kind of a failure to launch kind of season so I think that this franchise is at a very interesting crossroads because it's not like the other thing, and Warren, I'm curious what your thoughts are on this, man. It's like, it's not like the vibes were great entering this game, though. Like, they got Ray Lewis coming out of the freaking woodwork to go give, like, you know, speeches to the locker room so they could close games and stuff. It's like, that doesn't help. Like, what are we doing here? So I kind of think it's like, Their season was already kind of at a crossroads, and now it's even further in turmoil.

8:43 Yeah, I think crossroads is a fair way to assess it coming in. I do think, like— and I actually talked about this a little bit with Erickson last night. I think it was after we finished taping the Betting Pros show. Like, I think Lamar is actually underrated still in terms of the impact he makes on a team. The difference between him being on the field and him being off the field for the Ravens, it's beyond night and day. And, like— The vibes were not great the last three, four weeks.

9:11 That's been without Lamar. With him coming back, it's very easy to paint the picture of through Lamar, all things are possible. And now they're going to go on this run. And I think this could have been a great game. I think they easily could have won this game if Lamar was healthy. He's that good. The defense leadership feels like it's been a problem. It's a lot of like pointy fingers. A lot of it is, I think, scars from the previous years and the previous years of collapses and you know, one thing goes wrong. And it's not even that these guys are mentally weak. It's just been a real mental burden being the team that always blows leads for so long that I think it's kind of wearing on the defense now that they had all this

9:45 extra pressure without Lamar there. So Lamar coming back, I do think would have and could have changed those vibes drastically. Again, crossroads, I think is fair. I think it would have gone in the right direction if Lamar was healthy this season, but now that he's not, I mean, it is going to go the complete opposite direction. I cannot emphasize to you, as somebody who watches every snap of Ravens football, like, I know Tyler Huntley is an okay backup quarterback. The gap between him and Lamar is unbelievable. It's going to look very, very ugly for the next month, especially because the schedule is getting harder now, too, D-Bro.

10:14 Yeah, and the other part about all this, and I think going back to the vibes piece of this, is the defensive collapse in later parts of games and stuff. Also, you've got to marry that, too, with the fact that they have a defensive-minded head coach that was going to fix a lot of that. And hasn't fixed that to this point. And I get it. It's his first year.

10:34 I understand that. But it's not like they're devoid of talent on that side of the ball. And you marry all of that stuff together. It's like, Jesse Minter was supposed to be the savior of this. He was supposed to fix these problems. And they're still problems, too. To your point, Worm.

10:48 It's not a fun place to be in right now.

10:50 No, no, it's rough, man. It's definitely rough.

10:52 Eric, any final thoughts on this before we move on?

10:54 I think they've got to at least get rid of Marlon Humphrey at this point. Like, we'll get into it. He's someone that you should they should definitely consider dealing. I don't know where he is in his contract, but.

11:04 He's a free agent after this year.

11:05 Yeah.

11:07 So let me ask you this, because we're going to talk about some selling opportunities for the Ravens later in the show. Just very quickly, because I know we spent a lot of time on this. Is it worth them reaching out to any team that has an interesting backup quarterback? I know there has been talk about just having the connection with Declan Doyle. I saw somebody throw out maybe like Anthony Richardson, just get another running quarterback in there and run the ball with him and Derek Henry.

11:28 Maybe it's too complicated.

11:30 I'm not even saying that I'm suggesting those, but I'm seeing a couple of those types of options thrown out there. Is there anything that you would do, Debro, in terms of not being a seller, which we'll talk about later, but a small buyer?

11:40 I don't think there's anything they're going to do that's really going to change their fortunes or help them and stuff like that in the short term of the rest of the season. So probably for whatever, like, hopium scenarios that anybody throws out there, probably none of those come to fruition. None of them are even realistic. What everybody's probably going to get, and unfortunately for the Ravens fan base, is it's like, hey, could we talk ourselves into Tua?

12:03 Could we talk ourselves into Tyson Bajent? What you're probably going to get is Cooper Rush re-signing in Baltimore.

12:10 Ugh, don't even.

12:11 I'm just saying, the previous relationship, there's basically nothing else out there. What else are you going to do? Joe Flacco ain't getting traded to Baltimore. He's not riding under his white horse.

12:23 If Flacco wasn't on the Bengals... In-division ain't happening, man.

12:28 In-division ain't happening.

12:30 Yeah. Erickson, any thoughts there?

12:32 I'm trying to look and see who else, because he was in Chicago last year. Was there anybody on the Bears roster that they would consider... I.

12:42 Mean, Bajan is the one that people were throwing out.

12:44 Yeah, that sounds.

12:46 Oh, you can't spend up.

12:47 I got one for you. So if the Cardinals truly are going to bench him, could they trade for Jacoby Brissett? If the Cardinals are benching him, what's the point? They don't need him.

12:58 You never know what the cost is going to be.

12:59 You have Gardner Minshew and you got Carson Beck.

13:02 I can't imagine they would do this. It would absolutely shock me. But if the Raiders decided they want to go to Fernando Mendoza.

13:08 Oh, they won't do it.

13:09 Not after winning last week. I super don't think it's going to happen. It was a name that popped into my head. Yeah, I think Bursette's actually a really interesting one if he was going to get.

13:17 They could bring in another Denver Broncos quarterback that spent some time with him and Sean Payton. Zach Wilson?

13:28 No, he can't even start for the Saints.

13:31 He's on your Saints.

13:32 Okay, but to that point, also, you just opened up a very interesting door. Spencer Rattler?

13:37 Rattler?

13:37 Yeah. Okay. Okay.

13:40 I like Spencer Rattler.

13:41 You can talk me into that.

13:43 I would do Rattler over Brissette.

13:45 It's got to be somebody cheap that you take just a lottery ticket swing on because you can't spend up on a guy that you know is not going.

13:51 To be on. And I think it also has to come from an NFC team. None of these AFC teams are going to probably help them.

13:56 Yeah.

13:57 Unless they're totally out of contention. Like, where it's the Colts. The Colts are like, hey, what about Daniel Jones? You like him?

14:05 You want Daniel Jones?

14:07 Maybe.

14:08 All right, we'll move on. I know I'm going to get yelled at for having us talk about the Ravens too much, but it's a pretty seismic thing, both for this season and for the future of one of the league's contenders. So it's pretty, I thought, important to spend some time on. A quick note for everybody. The winner of the large NFLPA Wall Smack giveaway is DJKing806. Please get in touch with our customer support agents at mailbag at fantasypros.com. with your mailing address and a screenshot of your YouTube account page while logged in. Once we confirm, we'll get you taken care of. Again, congrats to DJKing806.

14:38 If you want the chance to win a Jack Hamm signed mini helmet, then this is your shot. All you have to do is subscribe to the Tailgate YouTube channel right now, drop a comment below on any of our videos, and that's it. We'll be announcing a winner right here on the channel, so make sure to turn on notifications so you don't miss your chance to claim this epic prize.

14:54 All right, some reactions for you here. Erickson, start us off with your number one takeaway from week eight.

14:58 I don't know. if the Detroit lions can keep dealing with all these defensive injuries, they are currently, or I believe that the betting favorite to win the NFC North, that's the team that I would pick to win the NFC North, especially after they beat the Vikings head to head, their offense is so, so good, but dude, they can barely feel the roster on the defensive side of the football.

15:21 And in just this past game, again, obviously the low light is the Jack Campbell injury. absolutely devastating. We're still hoping to get more positive news about him. They said that he's just resting in the hospital. So I don't know if you guys have seen anything about his status, but that was the latest that I heard regarding Jack Campbell.

15:39 But in this past game, they lost so many more defensive players. Jimmy Roller, DJ Reed, Brian Branch, DJ Wanam. And there was friendly fire where it was a Brian Branch hit that knocked out two Lions in that game. So Branch and DJ Wanam is a concussions so you're not looking at those as necessarily long-term injuries but still i don't know if this defense is going to turn around to a point where okay we're looking at the lines as super bowl contenders their offense has to be so so good i do wonder if they need to rely more on the run game like they did in this specific matchup against the vikings where they're following what the bears have been doing their offense where they're playing bully ball and they're not trying to score as many

16:22 points as as fast as humanly possible because they can keep their defense off the field so we've seen the bears do that with how effective their run game has been this year are the lines kind of morphing into that offense a little more so less past attempts from jared goff more jameer gibbs and why we also saw a lot of running from sione vacay in this past game as well where he had not really been a featured piece in this offense whatsoever so maybe they're a low key team to make a move for another running back.

16:48 I know they've been talking up Isaiah Pacheco as, Oh, like when he comes back, you can't bank on him coming back in any way, shape or form. I know that James Connor is eventually going to get healthy. Maybe the Cardinals would feel like they can deal him if he's healthy enough, but I think the lines maybe are an under the radar team to maybe add another running back as they want to try to keep Gibbs healthy.

17:06 Obviously any defensive player that's on the market, they should be invested into because you see the offense and how this team could be a Superbowl contender, but, The defense is just, they can't catch a break.

17:18 I did pull up the odds here before I tossed to you, D-Bro. So consensus odds on bettingpros.com. The Lions are plus 200. The Vikings are plus 190. So they're basically even there. And if you look, you can see broken it down by different books. Some of them have them like flipped in terms of who's the favorite and who's not. So they're basically neck and neck consensus. It is a slight lean towards the Vikings, but it is basically dead even. And then the Bears are plus 235 on the consensus. So they are- consensus third, but again, like right in that same ratio, it's really those three.

17:47 And then a pretty wide gap to, to the Packers in terms of that division here. Debra, where's your head at on the lines with other injuries and this division and how you would maybe handicap this race?

17:57 Yeah. I mean, so the, basically the books are kind of throwing their hands up and saying, we don't really freaking know who's going to win this division. I would still be backing the Lions. I think that, dude, I just, my thing with it is, yes, the injuries are piling up and things like that, and they're substantial ones. The other part about this is, do we think Brad Holmes would actually make a move to do anything? Like, what is, where has he shown us in his history he's willing to trade draft picks to do that? Like, we could hope all we want to, Oh, maybe they trade for Tariq Woolen, or maybe this is a Khalil Mack team, or maybe this is this, or maybe they signed Bobby freaking Wagner, you know, because again, the veteran presence linebacker

18:42 help off the street. Like is Brad going to do any of that? Or is it just, Hey, we got our guys. Our guys are going to take over. It's next man up, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I think it's all of that. And I don't think they're going to address any of it, but, Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong. But like, also it's like, could they trade with the commanders and, and get a meek Robertson back in there? Because again, a history with him and versus another NFC team, like the commanders are going nowhere fast. Like, let's be real about that. But I don't think Brad's going to do anything because at what point has he shown the willingness to part with draft picks to upgrade the roster, despite all the injuries. And we've got how

19:24 many different seasons in a row that, of that being an issue like erickson do you think he makes a move like we talk about this but i don't know if it actually freaking happens and history says no it's not gonna happen.

19:37 Well he's moved draft picks to move up in draft.

19:39 Well i know that but he will not trade draft picks for players and it doesn't matter we have seen their defensive roster depleted down to, like, practice squad guys in previous years with the same awesome offense.

19:53 Am I hearing this right? You guys are both saying you would still pick the Lions to win this division?

19:57 I'm still picking the Lions because I don't— The Packers— The schedule's easy. Like, the offense can get it done. I have no faith in the Vikings. Have never had faith in the Vikings. Zero faith. Do not back Kyla Murray in any way, shape, form, or fashion.

20:11 For me, it's the Bears. In terms of the team, if I had to bet on one. Jeffrey Simmons is awesome. They are obviously all in. I wouldn't be surprised if they made another move. I think he really fills a hole in that defense. Not only is he really, really good and an important player, but he also fills a role that they really needed filled in their defense. I think they have arguably the best coach in the division.

20:34 You could go between Dan Campbell or Ben Johnson, but the Bears have maybe the best coach in the division. They have a quarterback who's playing really well since he came back from injury. They're addressing the defense. Their schedule is not terrible. I know it's not as easy as Detroit, but they get a game against the Saints. They get a game against Tampa. They get a game against Miami going forward. The Bears finish with Green Bay, Detroit, Minnesota.

20:57 Three straight games against the division. They will control their destiny probably. going into that stretch. So I, to me, the bears getting slightly more, you know, favorable betting odds than the lions. I would lean in that direction and their defense, I think is going to get better, not worse. The way the lions defense might get worse as these injuries continue to pile up. I mean, obviously it's tough game against Seattle tonight. I think they could easily lose that.

21:18 The correct answer is clearly just anybody, but the Vikings, which we all agree on. We talked about that a lot last week, especially with them as the betting favorite in some places. I think that's a mistake even with their record, but yeah, for me, it's, It's the Bears, I think, is the team I'd want to be backing right now.

21:32 Also, I mean, like, to your point there, Worm, like, they do have those two matchups with the Lions. So what happens in those two games outside of the final three games, they do have matchups against the Jaguars and Bills. So I look at it like this comes down to not only the two matchups with the Lions and the Packers down the stretch, but. what happens versus Seattle, you know, at that time of taping this, that game still has yet to be played, but also the games against the Jaguars and bills. And I think those kind of define their season. So I'm not saying that that can't happen, but we'll see.

22:02 No two with the lines. It will get Kirby Joseph back. And the concussions are not necessarily deemed as long-term injuries. So a couple of players will be coming back, but, Ultimately, it still feels like they really need to make a move for somebody, whether it's Josh Sweat as a pass rusher, whether it's one of these cornerbacks, Tariq Wolin for the secondary, something.

22:27 They got to do something. So maybe Brad Holmes needs to take a long look in the mirror and think, OK, I've been avoiding this for so long. It's finally time to trade some of these draft picks to get pieces that can actually help us now because we have a Super Bowl caliber offense and we just need the defense to be like 25th the rest of the way to have a shot at this.

22:47 But again, to that point, what I get, okay, confidence meter, give me a percent here, guys. What do you think the percentage chance of Brad actually making trades to address these problems? Like, I look at it as 40%, and I think that that's probably being optimistic.

23:04 What if they were in a scenario where they trade a player for, like, so Sam Laporta, right? We heard what he said a couple weeks ago about You think they're going to get rid of him? If you could trade Sam Laporta for the most impactful defensive player. Again, you have to look at this from kind of like a Madden view. But you're stealing from an elite offense.

23:24 Would you rather fix the defense? I mean, they didn't even use Laporta the last two weeks. I'm just saying, again, if you could get an elite defensive player, would you trade Sam Laporta to do that?

23:35 I'm not. I'm trading draft picks.

23:36 Well, Brad Holmes isn't doing that. We just talked about that.

23:39 But that's what i'm saying give me a percent brad holmes trades draft picks to address needs what's your percent i.

23:44 Haven't followed his tendencies that closely so i'm just following what you're saying that he doesn't do it so i'm not gonna go out on a limb and say well 80 he's gonna trade these picks because who are the elite defensive.

23:54 Players available that you could trade a laporta for or somebody like who's coming to mind for you guys.

24:00 Dj turner i don't know like again i'm just throwing nobody's throwing a name out nobody off a contender is a young player too relatively speaking I know he's had a back injury before, so. Yeah. Again, this isn't going to happen.

24:12 I don't know who you're getting.

24:13 I'm just spitballing the idea behind what if they trade one of their offensive players for a defensive player? You don't see that that often, but that would help fix one of their biggest needs. And they have a surplus of offensive weapons. Do you think their offenses are going to stop being good if they don't have Sam Laporta? No.

24:27 I think it's still going to be really, really good.

24:29 No, but. No, but I don't look as– I don't see this– I think this is also a JMO conversation. I don't look at JMO as being like a central enough player to where if you lose Sam Laporta and what he provides for your offense on a bunch of different freaking levels. Also in the run game, I don't know if JMO is good enough to take over that workload and if they still have answers for different coverage types.

24:57 That's my problem with it.

24:59 Let's go to the next reaction here. Debra, what do you have for us?

25:03 Well, who is the first head coach fired this season, boys? We haven't got one yet. I mean, as the time of recording this, maybe that changes. I got a few candidates. I'm also willing to hear some other names if you've got some other ones in the hopper here. So our candidates as of the short list right now, Aaron Glenn, the Jets are 2-6. They've lost three in a row.

25:24 Jim Harbaugh, just going down with the Titanic. The Chargers are 0-7. Nick Sirianni in the Lost Eagles season, they're 2-6. Shane Steichen and the Hapless Colts in the fire sale are 2-6. Who is the first head coach fired this season? And if it's not one of these guys, please, boys, tell me who is it?

25:43 Well, at one point I thought Dan Quinn was a really good candidate. Obviously, they get the win last night against the Hapless Eagles team. I don't know how much time that buys them. It definitely buys them some. I don't know if it buys them enough. Like I said, I'm not sure when this first coach firing is going to happen because I thought it could have happened already.

26:02 And so I'm wondering how patient teams are planning to be with some of these names that you're throwing out. I think that's probably a good short list here. There's not anybody that comes to mind as like an obvious you've missed them. Erickson, did anybody jump out to you that Debro should have included?

26:16 Can you read the list one more time, Debro?

26:18 Aaron Glenn, Jim Harbaugh, Nick Sirianni. shane's dyke in and and dan quinn's a good call although i didn't put him on the list because they won last night so it probably buys some time.

26:29 No i mean i think i i would agree with that list it feels like todd bowles who was like on the red hot seat has kind of bought himself some time with how well the buccaneers defense was like two wins and the way that because in that division too it's always live and actually one one coach you didn't mention How hot is the Dallas Cowboys?

26:48 That's what I was going to... I literally have it pulled up here, Erickson, to say the same thing.

26:53 I don't think that that happens, and I didn't put him on this list.

26:56 Hold on, hold on.

26:57 Because the NFC East is so bad right now, and they look at it as, if we fire him, we are tossing in the rest of the season, and that's the only reason. Like, if the Eagles... If there was another team outside of the Giants that had a winning record, and it was like, Cowboys, if you... Your best hope is a wild card spot because you've got no divisional hopes.

27:19 Then I think Jerry will fire Brighton Scheinheimer. But considering the state of this division, I don't think it.

27:25 Happens because of that. I was wondering if the state of the division plays against him because it's like, listen, this was a winnable division and the season you're having this collapse. But it's still winnable. It's true. But it's still winnable.

27:34 That's what buys him time.

27:35 Has Brian Schottener shown us that even in a week, like, I guess for me, it's, it's looking at this as Jerry Jones is not firing him to throw away the season. This is to salvage the season to.

27:45 Get, but he would be throwing away the season.

27:47 Do you think that Schottenheimer is doing a great job?

27:49 Take over the, the no, but well, hold on, hold up. I think the conversation for Schottenheimer is very similar to the conversation for Zach Taylor. Like the, the reason they lost this game, the reason they keep losing games is The offense, you can point to it. There are problems and stuff. It's the defense.

28:06 I mean, the offense has been overrated. The defense has got awful.

28:08 This is a Christian Parker problem.

28:09 The offense has been overrated for Dallas. In certain spots, they were playing the Arizona Cardinals. We were in the worst defense in the NFL. They get the ball in overtime, three and out, punt, and they lose. So I don't think that they've been holding up their end of the bargain with all the offensive skill players that they have across the board. the personnel additions that they've made, they traded for Joey Park Jr. They traded for Quinn Williams.

28:28 Like they've already put pieces together, but they can't figure it out from the coaching. The coaching is the biggest thing, in my opinion, that's wrong with Dallas right now. Defensive, offensive, it's a mess.

28:36 Yes and no. Total mess. Yes and no. So the JPJ trade actually didn't even take effect because he missed a few different games or he was hurt or he was sick or whatever. So really you're looking at just like the last two games to sample. But we also have a defense that goes back to, okay, They gave up 31 of the Ravens. They gave up 30, or excuse me, yeah, 31 of the Ravens, or no, sorry, 34 to the Ravens. They gave up 30 to the Texans.

29:00 They gave up over 30 points to the freaking Cardinals. And also, you brought Mike Pettin in to help Christian, this is a Christian Parker problem to me.

29:11 I think it's a coach, but who put Christian Parker in that position? Isn't it the head coach's job? Like, that's for me, like, Again, when I look at Dallas, I.

29:18 Look at a team.

29:19 Yeah, but you know Jerry's got his hands in that, too. When I look at a team.

29:23 Like Dallas, I don't think this is crazy for me to say something like this, but I feel like they could beat any team and also lose to any team, right? And when that is the case.

29:31 They play up and down in the competition all the time.

29:32 When that's the case, to me, it starts at the top. And right now, that's Schottenheimer, and he's the coach. So, like, I don't know. Again, I don't know. I haven't looked at their coach. depth chart or their staff close enough to look and see who would fill in as an interim or who could kind of step in to be the play caller or something along those lines. But I almost feel like the Cowboys need like a spark. They need like this dead cat bounce type of thing where it's like, dude, like we have so much talent and we're still not getting the job done. Someone's got to pay.

29:58 What's the point of just waiting for the end of the season to fire Schottenheimer if it's so clear that, dude, they're not going to get over the hump with him as the head coach. They keep blowing these games against these teams that they're so much better than on paper. I get the defense you can't fix overnight, but I feel like, schematically speaking, with the personnel, there is at least, you can kind of squint and see, maybe they can fix a couple things here and there if they have the right coaching in place, which currently right now they obviously don't.

30:23 I don't think they have a coach. See, that's the second level to this. I don't think they have a coach on their staff that they'd be comfortable handing the reins. Like, going down the list, it's Clayton Adams is the OC. Well, he's really not the OC. It's Schottenheimer. Christian Parker, we just said, has been god-awful. Mike Pettin was hired as a defensive assistant. Then you have Nick Sorensen, Ken Dorsey, Derek Ainsley. None of those names are serious, like, head coaching interim guys. You don't have somebody that could take over and steady the ship.

30:49 Who's the special teams coordinator?

30:51 It is Nick Sorensen.

30:53 I would like to throw out a dark horse. I don't think this person belongs higher on the list in this conversation than any of the names we've thrown out before. But, Debro, I want to gauge your opinion specifically on Kellen Moore and his security. I almost put.

31:08 Him on the list.

31:08 If you take out that four-game winning streak in December of last year when Shuck got really hot, if you remove that, his record as a coach is four and sixteen. Even with that, it's 8-16. It's not good.

31:19 In a bad division.

31:20 In a winnable division. And guys, after week two this year, we came on the show, on the Tailgate Monday show, and said the Saints have the talent to be the best team in the NFC South and win this thing. They're in last place again. The record is horrible. It's even worse if you take out that one hot month last year. They already fired, I think it was the run game coordinator coming off of the bye week now.

31:41 So they're making coaching staff changes. As the Saints fan, Debra, I'm curious if you think Kellen Moore belongs on this list.

31:47 I don't think he belongs on this list. And the reasons basically why, one, they could have easily won the Lions game. Two, they shouldn't have lost the Raiders game. So, like, could they be a team that's easily sitting with four wins instead of only two? Definitively possible. The other part about this, dude, they've had so many, like, again, going to the problems of the Saints. Offensive line injuries have crushed them. running back injuries have crushed them. The defense has been God awful, but also like some of the injuries, some of the underperformance, it's like the only reason that like, they're even competitive right now in, in some of these games is because of Kellen Moore and Tyler Shuck also

32:28 playing with a fricking broken hand and how that's how they have to limit them. So I don't think that Kellen Moore belongs on the list. I understand his name getting a vote. And the other part of this is, could he get fired this year because of, Of all the expectations, them adding stuff, blah, blah, blah, blah. Somebody's head has to be on the chopping block. Yeah, he could get fired. Do I think it's probably deserved? Not so much, but I understand his inclusion here.

32:54 He's an offensive head coach. They scored the third fewest points in the NFC so far this season.

32:59 They can't run the damn ball. And they don't have the offensive line in the running backs to do it.

33:03 They just don't. I don't know if you saw that.

33:05 Yeah.

33:07 I mean, that's basically just saying, okay, well, we've sucked at this for long enough.

33:11 Also, they have a former head coach on their staff who could take over, Brandon Staley.

33:18 You don't want that. I know. So I think we talked a lot about some of like the dark horse candidates, but I think going back to like, I think the original list that you provided.

33:26 The correct answer is probably just Jim Harbaugh. I mean, they're winless.

33:30 I don't think, I think on it, dude, again, as someone that was defending Aaron Glenn.

33:33 I think it's Harbaugh.

33:35 Dude. In Seasons?

33:37 I just think that Harbaugh has too much.

33:39 Sirianni, to me, is the Black Monday firing. Sirianni, I don't think, will survive this season. I think he will survive to the end of the season, but I don't think he will survive into the offseason. I do think he will get fired, but I don't see the Eagles doing that in-season. If you're winless and you had expectations of competing for a conference championship and you're winless, that, to me, you can't ignore that when looking at this conversation.

34:02 Well, we just talked about this team, the Cowboys.

34:05 Yeah.

34:06 They're playing the Colts this week. If the Colts get destroyed, I mean, if the Colts get destroyed every single week, how is Shane Steichen still the head coach? What's the point of trotting him out to be the head coach? I think that he's probably the most likely, if it's not, Aaron Glenn.

34:22 See, I was going to say, I think it's Aaron Glenn, and I think it's Aaron Glenn for a few different reasons. One, they've lost three straight. They're probably going to lose again versus the Chiefs. They're going to lose again versus the Bills. So I think it's a twofold thing. One, the losses, because if they lose against the Chiefs and the Bills, they will have lost five straight games. The number two component of all of this, and we've kind of danced around this, of why I think certain teams can move on or keep their head coach because of the people in-house, you have Frank Reich that can steady the ship. And he's honestly done a quietly pretty freaking good job with the offense. So you give yourself an out of like, okay,

35:04 same voice. We get to continue to kind of like cultivate and build the offense. That's been obviously like the best part of the team that's shown flashes at this point. And also we can get a new guy after we can move on from Frank Reich easily after this year. So I think it's Aaron Glenn.

35:19 It's not going to be a first coach fired, certainly given the record, but just to throw it out. Cause I know Debra would want to hear it. Kevin O'Connell, but at the end of the season, If they end up missing the playoffs after starting 6-0 and have that collapse and the offense continues to look the way it does, we'll get not first coach fired, but.

35:36 Bro's a fraud.

35:38 All right, let's get to the next reaction here, guys. I want to talk about the AFC North a bit now that the Ravens are obviously pretty much out of this, and I think we all agree the Browns were never in it. It's looking at the Steelers and the Bengals, and I was looking at the odds last night after the games, and I was surprised by them. The Steelers are plus 250 to win the AFC North as a consensus betting odd. on bettingpros.com, the Bengals are minus 150.

35:57 So again, plus 250 for the Steelers, minus 150 for the Bengals. I'm not saying those should necessarily be flipped, but I am saying that I think that should be considered more of a 50-50 toss-up right now. I don't agree with the Bengals being such clear favorites over the Steelers. I know that in the preseason, we thought the Bengals were the much more talented team, but man, while I didn't think it was the best hire for the Steelers, Mike McCarthy does win a lot of games in the regular season. The defense is playing well. The Bengals just barely got by the Titans this week. I know Cam Ward looked pretty good, but how much of that was Cam Ward looking good versus the Bengals defense not having

36:32 the best day and maybe showing some warts that could play out over the course of the rest of the season? Again, I'm not saying that the Steelers should be heavy favorites or anything like that, but to me, this is a real 50-50 toss-up, and I was surprised that the odds aren't reflecting that. I also look ahead, like, The Steelers have beaten the Bengals already, so they have that tiebreaker right now, and they play them again in Week 10.

36:55 The Steelers have a bye in Week 9. The Bengals are playing an international game. So you're getting one team coming off of a bye, the other team coming off of an international trip. So if the Steelers take advantage— that' s on Sunday Night Football, by the way, in Week 10. So the Steelers win that game just with that enormous rest advantage. Now they have locked in the tiebreaker over the Bengals this season, 2-0. You look at the rest of the schedule, the Bengals' schedule is easier now. But, man, you never know what teams are going to look like. Like, for example, one of the quote-unquote tough games in the Steelers' schedule is the Ravens game. Well, maybe that's not going to be so tough if it's Cooper Rush starting a

37:28 quarterback there, right? Like, they play the Carolina and Tennessee. Their December, their last four games, is Ravens, Panthers, Titans, Ravens. That might be four easy wins by that point in the year. So, again, I'm not saying the odds should be flipped. I think the Steelers have a real good chance at winning this division, and this should be 50-50.

37:46 They have a real good chance, but the three games that worry me are right before the stretch that you just said, Worm, against the Broncos, the Texans, and the Jaguars. That is the litmus test for the season where it's like, and that's where I think the differentiator is. Can I make, like, on paper and because of records, and if the Steelers beat the Bengals again, yeah, like, do you see the odds? Like, should they be closer? Could they be closer? Could the Steelers win the division? Yeah, that's the bull case for it.

38:14 But also, yeah, like, dude, the Bengals schedule the rest of the season.

38:17 It's pretty easy.

38:17 The Falcons, who just lost against a team who finished with negative passing yards. Then they get the Commanders after that, the Saints, the Browns, the Chiefs, Panthers, Colts, Ravens, and Browns to close it. I don't know, man.

38:31 The Steelers schedule's not that hard either. They get the Ravens twice.

38:35 That's true. That three-game stretch.

38:36 They get the bad Ravens.

38:37 Against the Broncos, the Texans, and Jaguars.

38:39 It's that three-game stretch.

38:40 The Bengals don't have a stretch like that.

38:41 I mean, again, you never know, too, by the time we get to December what other injuries could have come up. I don't disagree with you, D-Bro. It is a tough game to play sometimes looking far ahead. Like the Jags, I forget his name, but they just lost their great run-stopping defense.

38:53 Yes, Hamilton.

38:54 And so maybe Jalen Warren runs all over them in that game, and all of a sudden that's the Steelers. You know, it's hard to play out that. To me, what I'm really looking at here is I think there's a pretty decent chance that the Steelers are have a two to nothing advantage head to head against the Bengals after week 10 and that to me that these odds should not be as as far apart as they are.

39:15 No you're not wrong about all that and I definitely understand that the other like 4d chess component of this is like I'm not gonna say like either one of these teams go the route of the Ravens and like lose their starting quarterback but if that were to happen in all of this because it's not like Joe burrow has been a bastion of health or he's.

39:32 Missed as many games as the last five years.

39:34 But to the back to the backup portion joe flacco versus drew a lauren which i'll take i'll take joe well.

39:44 I think too there could be a scenario where these teams could also meet again in the playoffs, just based on how the seeding ends up working. They both make the postseason. Because I agree with Worm. I think that's a really sharp point that you made up, where in Week 10, when they go to Cincinnati, they're going to have a big advantage in that game.

39:59 I knew Eric said he was going to love the international.

40:02 Game versus bye week. I love that. You knew it. You knew it.

40:05 You set this up for him. I knew it.

40:06 The fact that the Steelers coming off a bye week is huge, especially for a team like the Steelers, who are older players. and they need to be rested. That's what concerns me about the Steelers and how they finish the season, where maybe they kind of stumble into the postseason because they are older on defense. Rodgers has taken a lot of hits this year because they've been throwing the ball, but I have liked a lot how they've shifted the offense a little bit more towards, let's feature our one-two punch that I shouted out last week, Jalen Warren and Rico Dowdle. Those guys are absolutely cooking, and it's helping keeping Rodgers upright because if they're going to roll the rest of the season with, oh, we're top

40:38 three in pass rate over expectation, Rodgers is not going to last. He's not going to survive the season taking that good. Entering this game, it was Deshaun Watson and Aaron Rodgers that were tied in terms of first and second in sacks taken. Now, Watson is obviously now running away with that after he got sacked eight times in that game. But I think that the Steelers are heading in the right direction. And after week 10, it would not surprise me if we're looking at the AFC North standings and the Steelers are one game up in win losses, but then two games up because they have the tiebreaker over the Cincinnati Bengals with eight games to go. So it could just become a numbers game where We think

41:11 the Bengals are the better team in during the postseason, but the Steelers end up taking the North just because, well, we beat the Bengals head to head in both our matchups.

41:18 That's what the Steelers do.

41:20 So I like that call there, but that's not to say that. And then when they go to the playoffs, Cincinnati goes to Pittsburgh and smokes Pittsburgh. Like that would not surprise me either. Even if the Steelers are at home, they'd probably be underdogs. And usually if Mike Tomlin's the coach, that's usually like the lock of the week. But with Mike McCarthy, maybe a little bit different.

41:37 I do even feel like the Bengals should be favorites to be clear. I just don't think the gap should be this wide. I think it should look like the NFC North where those guys are all bunched up at the top. I think these two should be considered close to a 50-50 chance here is my opinion.

41:49 To also, and Erickson, just to expand upon the really sharp point that you just made too, if we continue to see this version of the Steelers and how they operate being a run first offense and leaning on the run and the defense, their schedule also does lean to that. Like, nobody's scared of the Cincinnati Bengals run defense the Eagles run defense has been god awful the Broncos I know just bounced back versus Kenneth Walker but they've been horrible for most of the season the Texans can stop the run the Jaguars to Worm's point just lost their best run stuffer the Ravens have an elite run defense but what do they look like towards the end of the season they sell off other parts the Carolina Panthers yes

42:27 please and the Tennessee Titans so Most of the rest of this schedule, if they want to go and play the we're going to feed Rico, we're going to feed Jalen Warren, the most underrated running back in the entire freaking NFL, then they have a good schedule where they can do that, too.

42:40 They are tied for the most wins in football. And it's like nobody cares. I know the schedule's been easy so far, but it's like they do have nobody has more wins than them right now.

42:47 It's because of the schedules and a lot of it's been ugly, but it's fair.

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43:25 The Fighting Stefan Diggs, as people call them. Yes. All right, guys.

43:29 We got one more reaction from each of us here. Erickson, where are you headed?

43:32 Are the Buccaneers kind of back? Now, I bring this up because they play in a really bad division, the NFC South. And they've won two straight games with Baker Mayfield back under center, although he's basically done nothing for the last two weeks. He's basically just handed the ball off, which is kind of interesting because he was coming off this thumb injury. So we still don't really know how healthy he is in terms of actually throwing the football because he has been asked to do it in back-to-back games because the Buccaneers have just been able to ride their running game based on game conditions last week, obviously it was played in the rain. And the fact that Todd Bowles in this defense has played really well over

44:07 the last couple of games, their secondary is playing well above what the expectation was heading into the season. Usually we look at the Buccaneers as a team that, okay, you can throw all over Todd Bowles defense. They're really great against the run every single year, which remains part of how this defense is operating. But now the secondary is actually kind of picking up the slack and their cornerbacks are playing well, their safeties are playing well. And I know that all of the attention is going to Brian Flores and his defense and and Mike McDonald and the Seahawks defense, rightfully so. But Buccaneers, man, like you look at a lot of these defensive rankings season long, like they're up there. So in a weak division, Baker Mayfield,

44:40 if he is at least getting back to health again, they've been doing this out at Luca. He's been hurt the last couple of games. So I just think that I was worried to bury the Buccaneers very early on in the year off how badly looked offensively. But I look at this division, man, like Carolina looks like it's kind of going in the wrong direction. Now they're facing tougher opponents. We just talked about the Saints. a little bit. So, and then Atlanta, right? It's like the total wildcard team where I think that we agreed that we liked Atlanta the most when I brought this question up, I think last week or two weeks ago, but they're another team where it's like hot and cold. Like one week, they look unstoppable. The next week they look absolutely terrible. And

45:15 I get like this past game where they had four interceptions to Baker Mayfield's three pass attempts. Baker Mayfield had a higher passer rating than Michael Penix did, even though he didn't complete a pass in the game, which just goes back to how dumb is passer rating?

45:29 Oh, it's a useless stat.

45:32 I don't understand who calculated this method where, okay, well, if it's perfect, it's not like 100. No, we're going to make it 158.3. And when you watch a game, when you watch a game and you think, dude, this guy was perfect, and you look at his passer rating, it doesn't say he was perfect. You're like, wait, how does that make any sense?

45:49 It is one of the most baffling stats of all time.

45:53 It literally doesn't make any sense. But Buccaneers, NFC South, What are we feeling here?

45:59 I just want to say quickly here, D-Bro, that if you look at something as simple as point differential in the standings, every team in the NFC South is way in the negative except for the Bucs are a plus 27 this year. They're not the best team in football in that metric. That's not the only thing that matters.

46:13 But just on that one basic stat has been the best team in this division so far.

46:17 That's really just the last two weeks, though, because they won by 30 and they won by 16. So that's really just encapsulating the last week. But to your point, I'm not saying that they're back erickson because i think they're about to get exposed over the next two games against the bears and the lions so i think that their three and five record is going to become three and seven very quickly because dude you don't operate an offense where an nfl quarterback finishes with three passing attempts by the way in twerm's point earlier three fumbles too Three fumbles. He had as many fumbles in this game as he had passing attempts. Let that sink in, boys.

46:54 And he recovered all three, dude.

46:55 That's skill.

46:56 And he had more passing attempts and more fumbles than he did passing yards. Just let everybody let that sink in. So Baker Mayfield's thumb is not healthy. You don't run an NFL offense like this if your quarterback is any semblance of healthy, but to that point. Why is Jalen Daniels not starting instead of Baker freaking Mayfield when he has one functional freaking hand and they don't have a passing attack with Baker Mayfield? But to that point, do you think they're going to be leading or trailing against the Bears and the Lions? And if so, is that a hole that they're just going to be able to run 50 times out of? No.

47:35 I don't disagree with that, but I just look at, they can lose both those games, but then they get the Panthers.

47:39 Okay.

47:40 Like, yeah.

47:41 After those two games, there's one tough game left on the schedule. It's the Rams. Every other game is easy after that. It just seems.

47:47 Like, like the NFC South is going to come down to week 16, 17, and 18. They're all going to be like, who's.

47:53 The Falcons, which I would, I don't know if you guys agree. I think the Falcons are the competition for the bucks to win this division right now. Cause the Panthers feel like they've gotten exposed. We were talking about the Saints are dead now. The, The Falcons' next three games are Bengals, Chiefs, and Vikings, and then the Lions after that. So the Falcons have four very tough games, and then their schedule is very easy to finish. Their last five games are all very winnable, including that game against Tampa. But Tampa's schedule is easy. They're both easy after the next couple of weeks. Tampa's is just a little bit easier because there's maybe one or two more tough games for the Falcons than Tampa's. Now, the Falcons

48:25 have beaten the Niners, right? They can take one of these games. if they're on their best day, but to Erickson's point, they are pretty up and down there. But to me, it's between those two to win this division.

48:34 I agree with that. I think it's between those two and like stacking up, like if, if Baker Mayfield is fully healthy or anywhere, like any semblance of that, then fine. I'm taking the bucks because Erickson, to your point, man, like their defense has been so much improved. Like Jacob Parrish looks like a freaking dude out there. Their pass rush has been quietly getting home. Like I was looking this up as you were kind of talking about them earlier and Because, I mean, for a team that has had a bottom three pressure rate for most of the season, hell, at points of the season, they have been 32nd, have had the worst pressure rate in the entire freaking NFL over the last two weeks. 13th best. They're right behind

49:14 the Vikings of the last two weeks. So, you know, this would have to be on the back of their D. if if they take the division and Baker Mayfield has to be healthy and look like some semblance of even like one of the worst versions of Baker for that to be the case it could be could be.

49:33 They have again again after they put so they're playing the Bears in week nine on the road so again Soldier Field like if it rains and it's bad weather, like that lays into what the Buccaneers have wanted to do the last couple of games. So it's like sick, give us, give us crappy weather, give us ability to run the football. And then they have a bi-week. So that's another week where Baker Mayfield can potentially get a little bit healthier. And then you're coming off that well-rested to face the lines on the road. It's obviously tough.

49:55 And then the schedule eases up against the Panthers chargers. I will say too, with Tampa Bay, again, a lot of these NFC South teams do one of the, make a play for one of these pass rushers. That's been rumored to be traded Khalil Mack or Josh sweat. Like those are two of the marquee names that have been floated around in terms of like trading teams looking to add some pressure off the edge for some of these veteran guys. I'm really curious to see which team acts on.

50:18 I think the Lions should obviously be in the market for that. Just anything. And if you can't get secondary pieces, like get after the pass rush because Aiden Hutchinson is a dude like you have that guy. He's so, so good. But giving him another running mate alongside on that edge, I think would be really beneficial to Detroit. So yeah.

50:35 Who is actually favored in the division? Is it Atlanta? To win the NFC South?

50:39 Tampa Bay is plus 200. Atlanta plus 275. That's consensus odds.

50:45 So the Bucs are favored at 3-7.

50:47 Dude, that is so bonkers.

50:52 Well, 3-5. You're not wrong, Erickson. Future 3-7.

50:56 I mean, you said they were 3-7. I wouldn't be surprised.

50:58 You know what? I didn't even bother looking. Carolina is favored. I'm sorry. Really?

51:02 Yes.

51:02 Carolina is plus 185. Tampa plus 200. Carolina plus 270. I didn't even look at Carolina because we were not talking about them. Because they've been exposed.

51:13 Plus all of the injuries to that roster, man.

51:15 Their defense is also in total shambles.

51:17 Bryce turned back into a pumpkin before Halloween.

51:20 And they're pretty much favorites across the board. I'm kind of scrolling through all the different books and markets you can look at. It's not by a wide margin, but they are favorite.

51:29 Pretty much all of them. They should be the favorite, though, to that point.

51:33 Debro, let's get to your last reaction here.

51:35 Worm I love you but with the question has to be asked should the Baltimore Ravens be sellers before the trade deadline now before we all weigh in on this just lay it out Lamar possibly we do not know this as of time of recording this but it doesn't sound good possibly done for the rest of the season Tyler Huntley turf toe not an injury that's great for any position in football probably looking at a At best, they're four and four. They've lost three straight. Their defensive has had issues for the defensive-minded head coach. And then when you look past this season, next year, they are dead last in cap space in the NFL. They are 52 million underwater. Should they look to trade Derrick Henry?

52:28 Should they look to move Rashad Bateman? Should they look to move Mark Andrews? Marlon Humphrey is an unrestricted free agent. after this year and this team feels like they're a squad whether you want to we want to frame it as retool on the fly and that's more of a positive aspect or should they fire sale this stuff and rebuild this if this is a team that looks like in the mirror and says okay there's a decent chance because the other thing about it this lamar's under contract after this year They can free up $ 52 million in cap space if they trade him in the offseason. I could see this team going either way. I could see them going either way. Worm, kick this off. What do you think?

53:15 I don't know what Eric DaCosta and Steve Busciotti want to do. To me, this is a real crossroads moment for them. Decide what kind of season do they want this to be in Baltimore.

53:24 Look.

53:26 Lamar, unequivocally, no doubt about it. Again, we don't know the whole season. We know he is out for at least the next four games, which are the Jags, Chargers.

53:33 And probably more likely six games at least.

53:35 And then they have their bye week. So even just the fact he's on IR, we know unequivocally, no matter what, the first time he can come back is week 14 against the Bucs. I don't think he will be back by then from everything that it sounds like. So we're saying like maybe best case scenario, if he actually does come back this season, you're probably looking at week 15 as the true, like if it actually is best case scenario.

53:55 And Week 15 starts a stretch where they finish the season with Steelers, Browns, Bengals, Steelers. It's four straight AFC North games to finish the season. They might be too buried in the division by that point for those games to even matter. So I do think it is very much on the table that Lamar doesn't play again this season.

54:09 And if that is the case, it is very much on the table that this Ravens team wins, like, two games the rest of the year. Like, that could be the case.

54:15 Also, also, Warren, real fast on the Lamar stuff. Yeah. for all the hope and optimism we've seen the version and every injury is different. I don't want to, but similar framing, what is Baker Mayfield do done over the last two games coming back from a thumb. And this is what Lamar is going to be coming back from again, different injuries, but a thumb and holding the freaking football and throwing. So it's not like we just can assume when Lamar comes back, he's going to be Lamar. But anyway, go ahead.

54:45 Yeah, no, no. I think that's totally fair. the biggest question for me is not what should they do is it's can they get enough back for some of these guys for it to be worth it to give up on the season as opposed to hey let's just hang on to some hope because we're not we're not really moving the needle with these trades anyway right like what is a you know what is marlon humphrey going to get back for you at this point like i was like i think roquan smith he has one more year under contract after this one i'm like if Jack Campbell's done, you know, gone for a while, do the lions say, let's go get a linebacker with Roquan, bring it back to the NFC North. But again, what are you getting for a guy like that at this point in his career?

55:21 Even Derek Henry, I know Erickson was going to want to bring him up as, as an opportunity for as good as he is. He's still a running back in his thirties who has a lot of carries under his belt, who has not looked the same in these games without Lamar in the last month or so. So I just wonder like, if you're just getting a couple of six round picks, you know, over the course of making all these trades, Is that worth nuking this whole situation as opposed to say, hey, let's wait till the offseason to reevaluate and hope beyond hope that we can, you know, stay afloat here and Lamar can come back and save us because we're not really getting much to move the needle anyway. I don't know what the right answer is,

55:56 but that's in the back of my mind as well. Erickson, what do you think?

55:58 I think they should trade Derrick Henry to the Giants.

56:01 Oh, I knew you were going to go there.

56:02 I knew you were going to, I was going to go there.

56:04 I think that's exactly what Harbaugh wants. Harbaugh name dropped Derrick Henry and Saban Barker a couple weeks ago when they were going through this whole cam scataboo benching and he was saying man i would love to have like a saquon barkley or derrick henry on our team well john.

56:18 Well they're gonna get one of jonathan taylor but i agree with the derrick henry point but who's cheaper no you're not wrong you're not wrong.

56:24 I mean look and emphatically the ravens i think are in a situation where they already gave up a second round draft pick to get cam jurgens so they're trying to comp picks and we know the ravens love playing the comp system where we'll take a bazillion fourth round picks like we love fourth round picks so In terms of an early day three pick to get Derrick Henry at his age, if you're the New York Giants, that's all you've invested in running backs over the last couple of years anyway. Tyrone Tracy was a day three pick.

56:46 Cam Scadaboo was a day three pick. And you get Derrick Henry into, I mean, they probably freaking Najee Harris. Like, I mean, I can't think of a, Greg Roman, Derrick Henry, John Harbaugh, Derrick Henry, the Giants. They can win the division and you don't have to pay as much to get someone like Jonathan Taylor. Like, to me, it makes so much sense, and obviously there's a relationship between DaCosta, and I think that this isn't a way of, like, a conversation where we're dumping Derek Cameron, we don't want you anymore. It's like, look, Derek, like, you know what the situation is. Lamar's hurt again. We're probably not going to contend. Like, we want, obviously, but you're an older running back. Do you want to go win a championship? Like,

57:22 the Giants have a chance. Who's going to win their division, right? The Giants. The Giants have a better chance of winning their division. They're in first place right now because... every other team in the NFC East can't get out.

57:29 Of their own way.

57:29 Significantly better.

57:30 So I think that this is a match made in heaven. And I think that the Giants have obviously been on the phone trying to get the price of Jonathan Taylor, the price of Saquon or whatever. And now with Derek Henry, potentially, if he's available, like that's the guy that makes the most sense because he already knows the offense. He can fit right in. And I think that it would, it would be seamless and be something I'd be excited to see.

57:50 And I think that you could have another kind of renaissance with Derek. And I also think in the back of my mind, like it would be cool to see Derek Henry, like with Vrabel again, but. That's probably less likely to happen just based on the way that offense is set up. But the Red Pages are also down like a lot of their playmakers at the pass catcher position.

58:05 So maybe they shift to more run heavy. Trayvon Henderson is hurt again. So that was something else I was thinking about. But I think Derrick Henry, I think.

58:12 Derrick Henry makes a crap ton of sense, man. It's a good call.

58:15 One note I just want to make quickly because we've mentioned that Cam Juergens traded a couple of times. That was a 20-28 second thing, not 27. So they do still have their 27 picks. Um, just, just to note that.

58:24 Yeah.

58:25 Yeah.

58:25 I mean, I think that that makes, I don't want to see it emotionally because I just love Derek Henry and I want to see him finish his career on the Ravens. He's been such a great fit in Baltimore that I don't want that to be over, but this really does feel like it's not a guarantee. It feels like this could have been the end of an era for the Ravens, um, with this happening. And, and that's a decision that DaCosta and Bishotti will have to make.

58:46 I think probably at the end of the day, I want them to be unemotional and make these trades if they can get something real back. It's also a really good draft class, right? Like, I want them to get more picks in 27, and hopefully that they can finally rebuild here and retool, I should say, in a way that they haven't been able to in recent seasons. The other thing, too, is the offensive line is still really beat up. They keep having guards go down. Even if Lamar comes back and the quarterback's right, he's going to be under a ton of pressure here with Ioane's hurt, although he could come back soon and stuff like that.

59:15 It's not just the quarterback position that's the biggest headline now. There's been a lot of injuries on this team all season long.

59:22 But the thing, too, is there's young talent that I think that they should try to evaluate. Get some of these receivers... what are we else doing to see from Rashad Bateman?

59:31 Right. Trade.

59:31 Like, like you don't need Rashad Bateman on the roster anymore.

59:34 He's an older receiver.

59:37 Let those guys play. And again, you're going to get Snoop Huntley back at some point. It's turf toe. So we'll see how long he's out for. He's probably not playing this week, but he could be back, you know, in two or three weeks, you can at least evaluate the other skill position players on your roster with Snoop Huntley as the quarterback. If you don't make a move for quarterback, obviously it's harder with, uh, an undrafted rookie free agent starting in those games. I mean, dude, you know who was like the highest on their rookie running back they drafted this past year? It was Adam Randall.

1:00:02 It was the GM or the owner. It was like, I love Adam Randler. Or I love Adam Randler. I want him to play more. So how do you do that? Well, we trade away Derrick Henry, so we're going to get more Adam Randall. So get ready.

1:00:12 You're going to spot for the owner's pick. Worm, can I ask you, and I'm going to openly just admit that I'm gaslighting you right now. Can I ask you a question?

1:00:22 I guess.

1:00:23 What do you think is more likely? they trade Mark Andrews or they sign him to yet another extension? It's a real question.

1:00:33 Dude, they need to get Hibner and Cuevos. Those guys are both like fun and good. They just make so many more plays than Andrews.

1:00:39 Cuevos would look good too. I've been impressed.

1:00:40 It's just anytime I see an eight running down the field, I'm like, that's not Mark Andrews.

1:00:43 It's not Mark Andrews. Now that guy runs different and it's not a good thing. No.

1:00:49 All right, let's go to the last reaction here from me. I think Trevor Lawrence is the best MVP bet right now. We said this when he was like plus 2200 or something earlier in the year.

1:00:58 Off season, baby.

1:01:00 Summer take, baby.

1:01:01 It's not as favorable as it was then, but I still think it's the best bet. He's at plus 850 right now. Consensus betting odds on bettingpros.com. And there are four names that are significantly shorter odds than him. It's Josh Allen at plus 140. I don't get that at all, if I'm being perfectly honest. Burrow at plus 450, that one I get. Brock Purdy at plus 425, that one I get. Trevor Lawrence at plus 850. I don't know why there's that wide of a gap there. The Jags have been an excellent team. He has been excellent. They have a very easy schedule going forward, so I think we will see some great statistical numbers from Trevor Lawrence and also a ton of wins from this team. We know the MVP often comes from the one or the

1:01:37 two seed in the conference. If you look at his last 17 games in Erickson, I saw you retweeted this earlier, and I saved the tweet because you retweeted these stats. Trevor Lawrence in his last basically regular season worth of games, 17 games, is about 64% completion percentage, 4,000 passing yards, 44 total touchdowns, just 11 interceptions, passer rating over 100, also throwing 300 rushing yards, and a 14-3 record. Those are MVP numbers. That is an MVP stat line right there, and he's only getting better the longer he's been in Liam Cohen's system. He has the— playmakers to throw to, to, you know, help keep them afloat. If he's ever having a down game, like they're going to win a ton of games. I just like, this is a really good

1:02:16 team and a really good quarterback who has a really good statistical case. I don't understand why there's a gap between him and Burrow and Purdy. And again, I don't think Josh Allen has been that good this season, honestly. Like there are a lot of stats because he is Josh Allen. And when he plays poorly, he can still compile a lot of stats. And this is a good offense.

1:02:32 I'm not impressed with Josh Young. There are a lot of turnovers this season. There's like three different games that they've gotten pretty lucky, I think, to win this season, like that game against the Chargers. It's because they were playing a terrible Chargers team. He didn't play that well. I don't think he was that good yesterday. It's just he was facing a third string quarterback. So, of course, they were going to blow him out. Like, I have just been not impressed with Josh Young compared to his usual standards this season. He's still a really good quarterback.

1:02:54 And I look at MVP. I'm like, Joe Burrow has not won one. He's playing really well. I know that the voters would love to give him that award. Brock Purdy, we've talked about, has been excellent this season, obviously coming off the bye week this week. And then Trevor Lawrence. To me, those are the three I'm looking at, and Lawrence is by far the most favorable odds there if you want to bet on him. So that's why I think he's the best bet right now, Erickson.

1:03:14 I'm going to get out of the way, and I'm just going to let you cook on this because you've been talking about this since summer, okay? I just want to throw this out there for all the listeners. On pace right now, T-Law is on pace for 4,100 passing yards, 41 passing touchdowns. Erickson, the floor is yours, buddy.

1:03:32 So this is from my sports update. It's the post that Warren was talking about. Trevor Lawrence in his last 17 regular season games. To your point, what he's on pace on, what he's done over the last 17 regular season games, 4,100 passing yards right around there, 44 total touchdowns, 11 interceptions, 14-3 record. He checks off all the, this is why I liked him so much as an MVP bet, because he checked off all the boxes of a quarterback that took off in his second half of the year with Liam Cohen. And all we've seen in this second or this part of the 2026 season is just the carryover.

1:04:03 Like he just is operating at such a high level in this offense. And yes, he has his moments where he does dumb things. It happens every once in a while. It's kind of like the Trevor Lawrence experience. It's probably going to happen on Thursday night against the Ravens. He's going to do something really, really dumb, and the Ravens are going to be like, ooh, new life for the Baltimore Ravens. Do they have a chance? And then he's going to make up for it, and they're going to blow out the Baltimore Ravens and their third-string quarterback, and it'll be all great time. So Trevor Lawrence, I think that, especially now that he's playing on a primetime game, where the Jaguars usually don't play a lot of primetime games.

1:04:29 They play the London Island games, which in London, they didn't play super well. Again, they barely beat the Eagles, and then they lost to the Texans, but You look at the rest of their schedule, you talked about how easy it is. Dude, I think I see like maybe two losses max because I would expect them to beat the Texans even in Houston. I think that's something that usually those teams split and considering they already lost to Houston, I think they would win that game. But the toughest ones are like at Chicago. That's one you could see them potentially losing maybe at the Giants, but they're going to sweep the Titans. They're playing the Steelers at home.

1:05:00 I'm taking the Jags all day in that type of matchup. But, like, the Colts again, the Commanders, the Cowboys. I mean, they end the season with arguably the three worst defenses back-to-back-to-back. Cowboys, Commanders, Colts.

1:05:10 And we know play well late matters in MVP races.

1:05:13 Yeah, and you can put up just insane numbers.

1:05:15 This has been the best team in football by point differential, by a wide margin. They're plus 85 on the season.

1:05:18 Oh, yeah, they smoke the bad teams that they play.

1:05:21 That's also why, I mean, if you look at also to the Trevor Lawrence of all this, The thing that, and we just cited his numbers and as good as they've been, the reason that they're not even better is because either he's had a down game or they have smoked the opponent and then they've just gone into turtle mode.

1:05:37 Because you have to have the passing attempts to put up the MVP caliber numbers. And over the last few weeks, 23, 29, 29, 23. Like he's only got two games this season, boys, with over 30 passing attempts. Two, that's it.

1:05:53 By the way, this week, And I'm kicking myself, Erickson. I meant to bring this up last night in the Lookahead Lines show when we were talking about this Jags-Ravens game. I circled this on the calendar the moment the schedule came out. Go look at the history of Liam Cohen offenses going up against Jesse Minter defenses. It is really one-sided.

1:06:10 I think Trevor Lawrence might have an unbelievable game in prime time against the Ravens defense this week because Liam Cohen historically has smoked Jesse Minter defenses.

1:06:19 Did you see those floating out somewhere or.

1:06:22 In the offseason, it was a talking point amongst Ravens fans, so I didn't re-look it up this time. And again, I meant to bring it up last night, and I just forgot. But it was a big talking point in the offseason of like, hey, whenever they face the Jags, go ahead and bet the Jags because Liam Cohen has really trounced it before. And of course, now the game looks even different than it did before. But yeah, I think he could... I think these odds will look a lot better five days from now because I think he's going to have a huge game in primetime.

1:06:47 I would say, too, to the point of him versus Burrow... the Jaguars already beat the Bengals, right? Usually in head to head. It's well, I also find it hard to believe too. If the, if the Bengals are a wildcard team that they have the MVP versus the Jags, they don't win the AFC North, man. Like Burrow has to put up like, again.

1:07:06 It's one of those things where I think you saw the narrative start in like May of like, Hey, maybe it's time to get Burrow an MVP. Cause he hasn't had one yet. And he's been like, he's of the sort of consensus top four quarterbacks of the last five years. He's the one that hasn't won one of these awards yet.

1:07:21 And I think you started to see that discussion point already on ESPN or NFL Network or whatever. And so I think voters really want to give him one if he does enough to earn it. But again, it's a great point. He lost that head-to-head battle. Again, I'm baffled by Josh Allen being.

1:07:37 The favorite here compared to these other three. And Joe Burrow did, I know he threw, you know, he had six touchdowns. He also had three picks to the same guy.

1:07:45 So for me, this is Burrow, Purdy or Lawrence. I think Purdy versus Lawrence is a really interesting conversation right now, but Lawrence's odds again, are the better bet right now. And I don't even love any of these. Like there's no dark horse, like maybe Caleb Williams, if the bears really do go on a run here and just win so many games, it becomes unavoidable. He's plus 1600. But like Mahomes is not winning the MVP. This is Drake.

1:08:04 May is not winning the MVP. This is Jordan.

1:08:06 Love.

1:08:07 There's two things. Not going to win enough games. Like, It really, to me, is those top five. And, again, I'm totally ruling out Josh Allen from what I've seen this season. So, yeah, again, I just think Lawrence is the best bet here.

1:08:16 No love for Kirk Cousins? We mean the NFL in passing questions?

1:08:20 Correct.

1:08:20 No love for Kirk Cousins.

1:08:21 You mean the 2027 starting quarterback for the Minnesota Vikings? No, no love for him. But to this point, if you're listening to this program during the summer and you bet Brock Purdy and you bet Trevor Lawrence for MVP, you're sitting in a pretty good spot right now, man.

1:08:35 Actually, no. I take it back. Burrow actually has the most passing touchdowns. He has 20. Kirk Cousins has 19, and Trevor Lawrence has 17. Trevor Lawrence has already had his bye week.

1:08:44 T-Law and Caleb are the best values on the board. That was a good shout-out, too, Worm.

1:08:48 I agree. Yeah. All right, everybody in the comments, let us know who your favorite MVP bet is right now based on those odds. Again, you can check out those updated odds at bettingpros.com. We'll go ahead and wrap things up there. Thanks, everybody, for checking out our week 8 Reaction Show. For Erickson and Debro, I'm Ryan Wormley. We'll see you again next time.