Toy Story 5 and The Death of Robin Hood, plus Rose of Nevada | #1070

0:21 Film Spotting is presented by Regal Unlimited, the all you can watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in just two visits. See any standard two D movie anytime with no blackoutdates or restrictions. Sign up now on the Regal app or at the link in our description and use code film spot twenty six to receive fifteen percent off.

0:45 What kind of a show you guys putting on here today?

0:48 You're not interested in art?

0:49 Now?

0:50 No, Look, we're going to do this thing. We're going to have a conversation.

0:55 From Chicago. This is film Spotting. I'm Adam Kempanar and I'm Josh Larson.

0:59 Bonny.

1:00 There's a package for you, O day to thank you. Hi there, I'm Lily pat Let's Key.

1:08 Extinction Not again.

1:11 Woody and Buzz are back sort of. It was Cowgirl Jesse and girl Girl Bonnie who led Toy Story five to box office dominance last weekend.

1:21 You've got a review, plus Hugh Jackman in the Death of Robinhood, the British in the Rows of Nevada, and more a head on film Spotting.

1:36 Welcome to film Spotting, along with Toy Story five, which we both saw. I caught up with the Death of Robin Hood and you saw Mark Jenkins Rose of Nevada. Now I don't know a whole lot about Rose of Nevada, but I don't think either film is exactly cheery.

1:52 Mine was not. So yes, yours doesn't sound like it from the title alone, but certainly either way, I think among this group we'll find we'll find something to recommend. I have a feeling.

2:02 Reviews of those later in the show. We will also have a new deeply flawed film Spotting poll, though I don't know that flawed is the right word to use in our slack. When producer Sam was setting up this poll question, the words you used to describe it were well evil, evil was part of the phrase.

2:23 Let's give Sam a's due evil genius. I really like this one. I mean, that's true. It will put you through the ringer, as the best polls do. I don't see a flaw here as of yet. I'm just going to say that, but maybe when we get to it, well, we'll find something in it. Pick.

2:38 I am excited to get to that. I'm also excited to be in Chicago this weekend for Film Spotting Fest. I don't know if you can tell Josh for our video watchers on YouTube YouTube dot com slash film Spotting. I have a prop here? Aha, how about that the Barronsters looking sharp, isn't it. You can see representations images here from the four films that will be part of Film Spotting Fest two. Fest two film Spotting as we like to call it, presented by our partner Inflection Point Entertainment.

3:11 We do have Clayo from five to seven, Krisha Wet Hot, American Summer, and The Royal Ten and Bob's Anniversary films. Krisha celebrating its tenth anniversary without American Summer It's twenty fifth? Can it really be that long? And yes, the Royal tenembombs It's twenty fifth anniversary as well. A thirty five millimeter print of that at the music Box. That's Sunday morning.

3:34 Michael Phillips will join us to talk about that one and intro it as well. The other three films will be part of a Saturday festival event at the Athenaeum Center all right there on Southport in Chicago this weekend June twenty seventh and twenty eighth. So depending on when you're hearing this, you could still make it out to one day or both days of this event, and you can get tickets at the door at either the Athenaeum or the music Box.

4:00 Adam, I just did that walk last weekend. I was in that neighborhood at the Music Box and we walked to eat at a place that was just past the Athenaeum. If you're coming to Chicago and you haven't been in that area, it is lovely. It's a beautiful stroll, all sorts of restaurants, shops to check out. So yeah, we'd really encourage you to make a day of it. We have spread out the screenings a little bit more compared to last year's festival, so a little bit more room to breathe, get out in the neighborhood there. Yeah, I thought I had a good movie weekend last weekend, Adam.

4:33 For Father's Day Eve, we caught the Two Towers at music Box. But this is going to be fantastic the full day Saturday with those three films and then yeah, back again at the music Box on Sunday. As you said, tickets now available, so please scoop those up. All the information, all the details we just shared you can find at Film spottingfest dot com, including for you poor listeners audio listeners, you can get a glimpse at that awesome poster as well.

5:02 You can, and we should highlight one last time the guests we have lined up. We're going to talk about Klaio from five to seven, a film spotting Pantheon entry just this year, and we've got Agnes varda biographer and critic Kerrie Ricky there to talk about that film, the writer, director, Kresha and Josh. I did my homework earlier this week.

5:24 I rewatched Krisha. It's a really good film. We're gonna have a lot hold to talk about with Trey Edward Schultz. Is gonna be such a good conversation. And then two guests, Marguerite Murrow Katie from Wet Hot American Summer will be there and the critic from the Next Picture Show and the reveal Scott Tobias who put it in his new cult cannon Wet Hot American Summer, They'll both be there to talk about that film. That's our showcase film Saturday night.

5:52 And then as we said, Royal Tenebumps Sunday morning, just a perfect matinee film on Sunday at the Music Box, so we do hope you'll join us. As we said, you can get tickets at the door or Film Spottingfest dot com or the websites for either of those venues of the Music Box or the Athnam And if you're a film spotting family member who's listening and you haven't gotten your tickets yet, you get a discount. You also get to be part of a exclusive film spotting family meet and greet before wet, hot American summer. So Films Fightingfest dot Com is where you can get all those details.

6:26 Burst up, Toy Story five.

6:29 I want to talk to.

6:30 You, device, Please call me Lily.

6:32 Now look here.

6:32 Me and the toys have been working all summer to try and get Bonnie to make friends with the Jordan twelves across the street. But then you had ruined it with all your stupid You're not even listening to me.

6:43 No, I was listening.

6:45 I'm always listening.

6:46 See now look here.

6:48 Toy Story five starts with a sequence that's a volleyball short of a full on homage to one of star Tom Hanks's most beloved films, combined with something more contemporary, Planet of the Apes, a cargo ship full of high Tech Buzz light years has crashed on a deserted island. The Buzzes assemble adrift without a directive. Then one spots the north Star, prompting chance of star command. The unit mobilizes and escapes while nowhere near is gripping. My immediate thought watching the Buzzes scout their new and vince like astronauts on a foreign planet in a sci fi thriller, was that this opening might be a parallel to Toy Story three's Great Troll Orphan Train Rescue, a projection of a child's imagination and most probably the imagination of an

7:35 and d esque boy. But Andrew Stanton and McKenna Harris, the movies co writers and directors aren't retreading familiar territory, and Operation Castaway ends up offering a clever bit of misdirection. In every prior installment, the perspective has been toy centered. People are antagonists or catalysts, and their attachments or lack thereof, to toys drive the narratives. But our emotional journeys as viewers are entirely tethered to the outcomes and arcs of Woody, Buzz, Jesse and company. Here Bonnie voiced by Scarlett Spears, a character we first met in Toy Story three, may play as significant a role as any of the toys. Moreover, the toy who is most dogged on, doggedly determined to help her kid navigate this brave new world of devices

8:25 that seems to have destroyed the concept of playtime irrevocably and try to maintain her own relevance. Is Jesse not Woody or Buzz. In one scene, the pair fight over which one of them gets the honor of serving Jesse as her deputy Josh. Toy Story five's approach is more human focused and feminine, and I wonder if Harris and Stanton weren't establishing the north Star as a subtle wink in corporate speak, the kind you might hear within the walls of I don't know the Walt Disney Corporation. North Star refers to a company's guiding principle, or, to put it in buzz Light year terms, the company's universal mission whether more films will follow or not, and considering it had both the biggest opening in the franchise's history and

9:11 the biggest opening of twenty twenty six, that seems almost certain has Pixar charted a new path for this franchise that will continue to not only cement its relevant but its status is one of Cinema's greatest franchises to extend outside the franchise for a moment. Many have lamented that, like those fifty lost buzz light years, Pixar has been rudderless for some time now. Are there any elements on display in the storytelling or the craft that Pixar should use to guide its work moving forward?

9:44 Ooh, I wish I like Toy Story five enough and found it that innovative to say yes, because that's something I've been rooting for for a long time now. I did like it. I don't see any trailblazing path forward here, though, I did appreciate those those alterations that you mentioned, bringing in Bonnie as a full character and not just background, and yes, focusing you know, more on play that girls, perhaps some girls, most girls maybe even engage in as opposed to boys. And it's funny the the sequences where we see Bonnie playing and jump into our imagination, which are really lovingly animated. They're like watercolors that a child might draw, actually, rather than the familiar cgi crispness. I liked those. They're all wedding scenes, right, And if you

10:39 know I talked to Debbie who had Barbies as a kid, she'll say, oh, yeah, well it was always involved around a wedding and not holding that a wedding that was quite dramatic, someone bursting in to interrupt the proceedings, which is exactly what we have here. So yes, maybe this is a turn towards the Barbie experience a little bit for kids in terms of playing with toys. I think that's a welcome tweak as well. We have plenty of toy soldiers in our lives, right, So I appreciated both those things. I don't know that either of them justified a Toy Story five, to be honest with you, and I certainly don't see. I hope because is what I'd like to see. You might have an idea how this charts a path forward. Convince me of that, because I

11:22 do think this is a lot of rehashing, and in a way that makes me kind of even when there's not even so much a call back, but even something more attentive, like bringing back Jesse's storyline from Toy Story two, when it leans on it as heavily as they do here. It's almost more of a sigh than a remembrance of appreciation for me, because I do feel like it's kind of leaning on things that were done earlier. Here's why I think Toy Story five had a reason to exist, and kind of the question for me about it is that this is the first one to very directly address what is called in the movie devices, so internet connected screens for kids, which have taken over childhood. They've taken over the world quite frankly since this series began in

12:14 nineteen ninety five. If there was a reason for another Toy Story, it seemed to me, let's make one that's specifically about the relationship kids now have with such devices in terms of toys and playing. And I think the movie addresses that head on. I think there's a charitable reading of where they land on that and an uncharitable reading.

12:39 So I'm curious to hear what you thought of that direction, because that's the one where I was like, Okay, I could see why we need a Toy Story five. Let's talk about this because parents of young kids are absolutely wrestling with this. It's something entirely new, and I think the movie let me hear what you have to say about that and the path forward first, and then maybe we'll come back the devices.

13:04 I'm so bummed hearing you only moderately approve of this film because I loved it. I like Toy Story four a lot more than you. I like Toy Story five a lot more than you. And I don't know that I necessarily like Toy Story one, two, or three more than you. So that's that's interesting that we're in this position to go back. I supposed to answer my own question.

13:27 Just because you decide to do something audacious and try something new for the franchise, that doesn't mean that it's going to work, And in fact, it can feel too calculated and it could backfire. Making Bonnie Central pays off with her and Jesse's emotional arcs culminating in two of the series most poignant scenes. Not just poignant for this film, I think two of the series' most poignant scenes. And to prove my point about the focus on Bonnie, how they really have And maybe this isn't something that I need to prove. It's just fact that we have Bonnie being such a central character here this movie, being so human focus her emotional arc the culmination is the one that comes later. It's the culminating moment that the movie

14:16 builds to, right, not Jesse's or any other toys, And that one you see coming. We know that the movie, based on the narrative threads and the mechanics, we know that it's building to that. That's not a surprise, and yet for me, it still hits like a sledgehammer, the Jesse one that you're referring to, that you described as just sort of rehashing for me, that one you don't see coming at all, even though we're playing in the same I was gonna say, Sandbox, we're playing in the same ranch. Quite literally, that moment still completely blindsided me and moved me tremendously. So that didn't feel to me, Josh, that surprised me. That did not feel like a rehashing.

15:05 That felt like what good franchises do, building off the myth building off the mythology that a good series has created. And it was for me, like I said something that I think, even going back to what we were talking about recently, and I don't remember exactly what the conversation, don't remember what movie we were talking about, even though it was quite recently, but when we were o Tree of Life and we were talking about nostalgia and the power of those familiar spaces and where we where we grew up and and I'm even someone who puts a lot of stock in in names and the power of naming, and I'll just leave it. I'll just leave it at that, Okay, that that those those things really have weight to them.

15:47 So you can imagine why getting to a scene like that that I don't know how anyone could have seen coming, why that really worked.

15:56 Yeah. So yeah, And I will say that moment I do think is effective because it is not a rehash. That's not fair, particularly for that moment, because it does bring Jesse to a point of closure we haven't seen before.

16:09 Mm hm.

16:10 So I will admit that I do think part of my hesitance is that I remember I was a little out of step with most viewers on toy Story too, because I thought with the whole Jesse storyline, though you know, beautifully handled, was a slight variation on what we saw in Toy Story, you know, with Andy and kind of having to rethink your relationship with your child from a Toye perspective. So I've never been quite as enthralled with Jesse as I think most viewers are. Maybe that ties into why I wasn't quite as enthralled here, but I do acknowledge that, you know, they bring her to a new place, which is smart. I think for me, the emotional moment in this series is also tied to Bonnie to your point in this in this film, I should say,

17:01 and it is her device that she gets is this lily pad, right, So it's a training iPad basically shaped like a frog, and it's a way for her to connect with some girls in her dance class. This is what's prompted her parents to make the digital leap. Is you know she's struggling, she's shy to make friends. Well, if we get her something like this, she can connect with them even if they're not nearby. And as things develop, you know, she jumps into one of probably her first group chat ever and it's crushing. I'll just say that.

17:36 And to watch this eight year old, even though it's an animated character, this speaks to the delicacy of the artistry of the animation to see her process these friends she wants so desperately through you know, we've seen texts and movies so many times, but to see this little kid holding a play thing that is crushing her, I thought that was pretty devastating, honestly, And I think it's tied again to this whole of the tech question that is that is hovering over the movie. You said when you were setting things up, Adam, high tech, right, the high tech buzz it's right there at the beginning. These these aren't you know, these are maybe six generations and buzzes at this point where they have Wi Fi and

18:23 they have all these other things in them. So this is very much a through line in the film and tracing that I found that to be quite intense. Bonnie's experience through lily Pad and how it opens up worlds that maybe she's not ready for or that parents have less control of. I mean, all these things that parents of kids are wrestling with today.

18:45 Absolutely, and I think there are unfortunately several scenes like that where we watch and have to process along with Bonnie that type of sadness, And I think that's a strength of the movie.

18:59 Adam. We're coming around the halfway point of the year, and so I'm scrambling to catch up with those releases that I think have a shot at making my top five films of the year so far list. At the top of that list for me to catch up with is I Love Boosters, which isn't going to be in theaters that much longer. So my younger daughter wants to see this too. We're talking about trying to fit a screening into our schedules. We see it's about to leave theaters and I said, you know, maybe we just can't make it work. What if we wait? And she just looks at me very scathingly and says, it's just not the same. So immediately shamed, also feel pride. Of course it's not the same if we were to see it at home rather than in theaters. What's even better than

19:46 that is if you could see it for free, which you can with Regal Unlimited. Regal Unlimited is the all you can watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in just two visits, and right now Regal is offering film spotting listeners endless movies for less. If you sign up for Regal Unlimited using code film spot twenty six, you'll get fifteen percent off. Regal Unlimited is the only truly limitless movie subscription pass you can see any standard two D movie anytime. There are no blackout dates or restrictions. Also, with Regal Unlimited, you're going to save money on snacks numbers get ten percent off all non alcoholic concessions. So sign up now in the Regal app or at the link in our description and use code film Spot twenty

20:33 six to receive that discount. Is it as bad out there for toys as they say it is? We're finding more abandoned toys each day.

20:51 Text invaded our house too.

20:54 I don't know, Jesse, toys are for play, but tech for everything.

21:01 I'm losing Bonnie to this device.

21:04 You got a fun Jesse has a line at one point where she says she's seen this all before. She's talking to some of these other the lower fi electronic toys, including Smarty Pants voiced by Conan O'Brien, who I do three. It's really great here, And I think at this point when she's recounting this, we even see a flashback to Emily on the phone as she's getting older, and she's you know, she's a teenager and she's ignoring Jesse and Bullseye.

21:34 What are the reasons to feel like this series may always have life? Josh for me to believe that they make more, I'm okay with this. It's because they understand that that the series has always been about trying to trying to fight against obsolescence, and technology has always just been part of it. But technology is also part of adolescence.

22:03 There will always be new technology, there will always be new times, and there will be new variations on the same struggles, and so it isn't just about technology. It never has been, with those changing times and struggles and new characters to inhabit those struggles. Maybe the most brilliant stroke here, and you mentioned it earlier, is finding a new innovative way to visualize how these young girls, both Bonnie and Blaze, the friend that that they meet here, use their imaginations to play with these toys. It isn't the same action movie sequencing of Andy's Mind or the video game world from the beginning of Toy Story two.

22:49 It's this really vivid, colorful like pastel colors, and it has still a di y ish esthetic to it with with this.

23:00 Chalk drawing like.

23:04 Exactly, and yet it's it's still sophisticated too, and it's just so lovely to watch when these toys enter, get to enter that realm. Both we understand the mind, the imaginative mind that the girls are entering, but the toys are entering this revelry that they're entering as well, and we as viewers get to go along with them. I think that was that was one of the journeys here that enraptured me with this film.

23:31 Yeah. I think there's three sequences like that in the movie, and each one is just delightful and amazing in terms of its animated artistry. So those play sequences get to something that I was very interested in that the movie was touching on that is related to tech. You're right, you know, there's always been tech, there's always been phones.

23:51 Kids grow up, they gravitate towards that and their childhood playthings fall aside. So that's not anything new. And in a sense, you know, this movie is also making Lain bear something that toys have recognized early in earlier installments, that we're not here for these lifelong relationships, we're here for I think there is another nice line of Jesse about for the time when they needed us something like that, Right, that's kind of what she comes to realize. That's true as well. But the movie raises and those animated, those pastel water color as sequences are where we dig into this.

24:28 It makes a distinction between make believe for kids, and they don't really use a term for it, but I would call it passive consumption, which is primarily done through technology. So the distinction here the movie lays out is when Bonnie enters that world with her toys, tangible figures and creates something out of her own imagination compared to when she sits down with lily Pad and plays It's like a hop game, right, and she just taps Hop Hop Hop, And I don't know. I think that's an interesting distinction.

25:08 I think it might be a crucial distinction for how we think about not just kids, but our adult engagement with technology. When does it It's an AI question, right, when does it assist as a tool our creative imaginations? And when does it dull and dampen them? And I was hoping that Toy Story five, once I saw that it was playing in this arena, would offer us something more there and I feel like it's not entirely dodging the question, but I feel like it comes to a point where it places most of the blame for Bonnie's bad experience. On the fact that I think this phrase is even used. They weren't the right friends who she connected with through her lily Pad, right, which I think is very true. I think that's absolutely on. But they

26:01 almost the movie almost to me, uses that as the villain, so it exonerates lily Pad. The problem was that lily Pad was the channel to these bad friends, not good friends. Okay, I get it, but also it kind of then sets usup how it defines make believe and it wants to be pro technology. As you said earlier on Adam, this is a tech company. It's a movie company, it's a tech company, it's a you know, an investment, it's a huge behemoth. So I'm not surprised at all that it's not entirely anti tech, that it is as a matter of fact, offering a certain defense of tech. I think it's nuancing the conversation in a way. I guess I just wish it. Knowing how smart the people are at Pixar, how much they've got to think about this all the time,

26:55 I wish they had maybe pushed forward on this idea of distinguishing between make believe and tapping a touch screen.

27:04 At the same time, I think provoking those questions is about all you can do, and I think that's what this movie does because there aren't answers to that question, and I like the questions in the way they provoke it. I want to get into that because you go back to this acceptance of this struggle against obsolescence in different forms.

27:22 And I came into this film knowing roughly what it was about. You come into it expecting, or I did in any way, and almost I'm ready to embrace the demonizing of screens. It's such an easy villain. Even as adults in the audience, we all know. I mean, I'll speak for myself, but I think most of us feel similarly that we're on our damn screens too much and we're ready to punish ourselves. It's like, bring on the self flagellation. And what does pisar do They establish it so that Lily genuinely wants to help Bonnie connect with friends.

28:01 So it's not just the technology its self that is evil. It's how the technology gets employed, and it's even I think, to some extent then, how girls or anyone else behaves when they use technology that is the problem. It isn't necessarily the people themselves, but the technology. Lily wants to help because this is the way kids connect. And I think I can say without spoiling anything, in the end, what happens there is actual then collaboration. They're so smart to not make it just this black and white binary thing.

28:38 And the reason why this is not only smart but essential is you said it. And this is something I was thinking about about halfway through, if not earlier, Josh, is how do you make a movie about the dehumanizing, soul sucking nature of screens if you are someone who made the movie by staring at screens. Furthermore, I'm not even talking about just the corporate part of it. I'm talking about there are someone who's physically working on the film, but digitally physically working on the film, you were probably think about all the different hands who worked on this movie.

29:13 You were almost surely the kind of kid who got to where you are because you've spent most of your life, including childhood, obsessed with electronic devices. Andrew Stanton might be sixty years old, but I'm guessing most of the animators working on this movie are at least half that age, and mostly came of age in the iPhone era, So how do you balance that without being completely hypocritical? And what I think the movie demonstrates, or at least what I'm going with Josh, is I don't think they necessarily say that only traditional, pure childlike imagination is what matters.

29:55 They give They give Smarty Pants, and they give these other electronic toys a chance to experience that type of play. They integrate them into these visions, and what happens the entire scenario that blaze in visions. When this happens, it actually gets taken to another level. Once the election tronics are involved, It gets better, it gets more exciting. So I think perhaps the movie is saying that one isn't right or wrong, but what matters is how you use it, and more importantly, that there still does need to be that element of imagination. There still needs to be an element of creativity as long as the devices are still being employed to a creative end, which of course is what's happening. When you're bringing a film like Toy Story

30:52 five to life. Then then it it's okay. Right then then that's that's a path. That's a path where it's a healthier it's a healthier way for us all to utilize this as as indeed a tool that That's where I came out watching.

31:11 It, Josh, Yeah, and I think that's the nuance that they're that they're going for. I'd have to watch that play scene where the earlier generation electronic devices are involved. I guess the crucial question and maybe I'm asking too much of a of a you know, animated kids, sorry to really explore this deeply, but hey, this is toy story, right is are there are there techabilities of those toys being employed in the make believe? Maybe it maybe it is, Maybe it is they are or that are being you know, they're there and so they're imagined to be other objects, so.

31:47 They get they get utilized in the sequence by the characters in a way where it becomes more of almost like a mission impossible like thing because they the Spyle have this technology. So that's that's where I was being utilized. So so you know, the path the path for Pixar question for me, where I was going with that North Star thing wasn't ironically as it was not about charting a new path actually, but about charting a new old path here. So I'm going to go in a little bit of a different direction. I wondered if Stanton, part of the old Guard who has worked on apparently all of these movies but never directed one. I wonder if he got together with Harris and said, said, you know, what is the north star for these films? What is

32:33 it that makes these fundamentally work? And it's probably true not only for this franchise, but all of Pixar's best work. And it's not ultimately about action or these thrilling set pieces. It really is at its core just about relationships, as simple and maybe as sappy as that sounds. So the beginning, that sequence that sets you up with this sort of like I said, sci fi thriller, with all these buzz light years running around, it really becomes a bit of a red herring because there are a lot of characters in this movie. But when you really think about it, what is this movie focused on. It's focused on Bonnie and Blaze. It's focused on Jesse and Bonnie. It's focused on Buzz and Jesse. It's focused on these couples. It's

33:22 focused on these relationships. And I said there were three, or I said there were two big emotional payoff scenes. There are really three. There are really three because it is the buzz and Jesse how that emotional arc culminates as well, And I think that one is pretty effective too, Josh. I have to admit that's that's how much this movie had its it's hooking me that I thought that was very effective too. And even I'm gonna give Stanton and Harris here are a lot of credit that all of those little narrative moments, those little plot elements, even the fifty buzzes at the beginning where you're like, why do we keep returning to this? The buzz x Makana, the buzzes x Macana. It works, It all works, Everything fits

34:07 together in the way these the best of these movies do I am.

34:13 I'm really glad that it fit together so well for you. Those were some of the hiccups for me, honestly, was this storytelling and the weaving in all those buzzes bringing around and I didn't even really need the buzz and Jesse stuff. I think having the focus on Bonnie was the way to go, and that's the strength of this movie.

34:33 But I do want to talk about some of the other things I like, because I don't want to be the total downer on this, and I did overall enjoy it. And the funny creative touches that you know we're there from the very first toy story are absolutely here, from things like having a sticky hand thrown in as a sentient toy. I don't think we've seen a sticky end before, and how that's employed to aid some toys that can't move around. I just never got sick of seeing how they were going to envision doing that lily Pad as a character. Again the detail picks our imagines. There's a point where Woody and Buzz figured out if they use the voice command feature, they can get lily Pad to do what they want her to do against her will.

35:16 And you notice whatever that happens, so the lily Pad toy has two giant eyes under the eyes just is always twitching a bit as she's completing their command. Just great touches like that. And how about the pet reptile. I don't know if it's a gecko or whatever. I think it only gets two scenes but one and this is where you can imagine we're going to do something about a device and electronic device and the Pixar geniuses their minds just fire on all cylinders. So of course toys aren't going to be able to activate a touchscreen right because their hands are plastic. So this gecko comes into play where Woody and buzz kidnap it and use it sticky, sticky whatever not pause to activate Lily and the gecko gets a great cameo during one of those

36:03 and managative play sequences at the end too, with a nice double take. So there's so much of that stuff there where this is not exhausted even the fifth installment in as envisioning a scenario and saying what possibly could we do here? It's not like what do we need to do here? What will the most fidgety kid in the audience need to see? To sit still? Here is what could we possibly do here? And that's where you get things like the get go, the I twitch or as you said, smarty pants overall as a character and real quick one thing want to praise as well. Again, I sound like I'm totally down on Jesse. Joan Cusack's voice work has always been among my favorite in the series, and so to that extent, it was nice to see

36:53 her get a chance to take center stage and focus more on that it's almost maybe because she's a cowgirl and this is on my brain, but it's like she has like a cow is working some cud the whole time she's talking. There's just there's a little bit of something kind of like stuck in there, which is an absolutely delightful touch the character has had. And so, yeah, getting to see Joan Cusack do more voice work as Jesse is definitely one of the highlights of this one.

37:18 You mentioned you mentioned a lot of great touches and animation moments. I want to single out one, which is when Bonnie gets that iPad, the lily pad for the first time, and the parents say we're gonna we're gonna let you have it for the first day just to get used to it, and then we're gonna set some time limits, some screen time limits. And you see the way they animate the glossing over of her of her pupil, when within about three seconds her brain says, I'm now locked in and I am going to be staring at this screen the rest of the day. It's it's one of the smarter, more acute touches in the film, because we've all we've all seen it and we've all fallen victim to it ourselves, the glossy eyed stare.

38:12 Yeah, and I liked how it you know you it doesn't hit us over the head with that too much, but I do like introducing it both sadly where they pan over the neighborhood at Nice and you know, this used to be the shot where you would see all the TV screens and that would comment on, you know, group thinking suburbia. Now you see it's not one TV screen in each house the camera goes by, it's multiple glows in each house from separate rooms, suggesting that everyone in that house is in their own room on their own screen. So you know, that's a clever way of capturing it. And also just in terms of humor, the first digital devices that Jesse meets at a neighbor's in a neighbor's yard. They've been abandoned nearbody's house. You know,

38:55 it's pretty obvious there. I think there's a sailor toy who tells her the age of toys is over. I love the other character. I forget exactly what it is, but it's like a mechanical drumming toy, and that one's just obsessed with tapping and so it just keeps. It's all the tap tap tap and hitting the drum each time again, just like a possibility, like we could say, we need to say the age of toys is over in this scene, right? What else could we say? And that's where Pixar gives you the tap tap tap character as well.

39:25 Toy Story five is currently out in wide release. If you see it and agree or disagree with our thoughts, we would love to hear from you feedback at film spotting dot net. Bonnie still needs us good little time, but you stay here.

39:41 I'm going with them. You don't think I can do hill? No, nice poncho. It's good to see them fighting again.

39:50 His serious.

39:54 We would like to take a minute now to think a couple of family members, including Aaron Bishop He's in Dallas and Jim Pride in Warrensburg, Missouri. Josh, how did Aaron and Jim find film spotting?

40:09 Aaron says, super early before podcasts were cool. Batman begins review. Possibly, Yeah, that would have been quite early on for Jim. He said, A friend mentioned you in passing when I had a long work. Now I live near work, but I've rediscovered you as a companion While winding down doing household chores or painting game miniatures. All right, all good, all good podcast companions.

40:33 There Batman begins, of course, part of film Spotting or Cinecast Lore Sinecast number eighteen, the first show that dropped on iTunes. That was the show that was there when Apple. We predated the launch of Apple iTunes, and that was the first show everybody heard, and it crashed our servers because all of a sudden we were we were featured on the main page of Apple, and we had to frantically scramble to try to get the website back up so people could hear what we were all about and what this podcasting thing was. Jim's favorite show, Top five of nineteen ninety nine. This is when we did Back Before You Josh, episode two eighty one in two thousand and nine, commemorating ten years. Pretty soon we'll be doing

41:21 twenty twenty nine looking back on ninek ninety nine. Crazy reviews we got wrong? Okay, according to Aaron, I didn't know there was any group standing confess Fletch, but Josh, you're on You're on his list.

41:35 There is a strong group. Adam, Yeah, these people love that movie. I will CONCEDE saw it once. Maybe it was a bad mood movie day. I have those every once in a while. Often it is related to comedies. For whatever reason. Confess Fletch just didn't work for me.

41:54 Okay, but did you just give it a harsher review than me because I didn't like it either. I'm looking at my There's no way I gave it more than two and a half stars. There's no way.

42:05 Just just let me take the heat on this one.

42:07 I should, I should, I don't want to get I'll do it. I'm already on Aaron's list for Grand Budapest Hotel, which I did famously not appreciate enough, even though I came around like two years ago and gave it four and a half stars.

42:23 I know, but we're you know, we're not forgiven for such things. There's an Homer, apparently not Adam. Once you make a mistake like that.

42:29 Hey, Aaron is still holding a grudge against Sam. He actually says, Sam, how dare you He's holding a grudge against Sam for his original review of Zodiac on the show, not loving Zodiac enough.

42:41 That's going way back, way way back. We also asked Aaron and Jim to recommend some favorite books about films or filmmaking. For Jim, it's Roger Eberts, The Great Movie Series, and Aaron mentioned Leonard Malton's Movie Guides.

42:55 Yeah, were you like the rest of us, Yeah, I mean we're just like you had to have the Leonard Malton Guide. It was your constant reference when you were looking up anything. We thank Aaron and Jim for being family members and all of those years of listening. Now, I'm sure you started following Jim earlier today, even though I refuse to because his handle is blues Fan nineteen seventy three.

43:19 Well, okay, explain the the beef there.

43:22 I mean, it speaks for itself. The it's got to be a Saint Louis blues reference. And I'm a Blackhawks fan.

43:30 So that's true. Okay. I did indeed provig Jim today, as I like to do when we hear from our family members, and yeah, people look for blues Fan nineteen seventy three. Adam's ignoring Jim.

43:43 That's right.

43:43 He could use some new followers, So come on join me.

43:47 There you go. You get all sorts of benefits being a film spotting family member, Like Sam's weekly newsletter you get to listen early in ad free, you get exclusive opportunities like certain benefits that apply to Film Spotting Fest. You get to be part of the Film Spotting Family discord, and you get monthly bonus shows. One coming your way very soon is we were wrong once? Or really we'll just call it Adam is wrong again. Our conversation about David Robert Mitchell's it follows as we anticipate his The End of Oak Street coming out later this summer. And we've talked about this before for our family members exclusively, and this is anticipating Super Madness twenty twenty seven. We had to be completed. We had to get an elite

44:35 eight of the twenties and thirties, so Film Spotting Family members only get their own little tournament nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties, the best of those decades. The bracket has been set, but Josh, it has not been announced as of this recording. It's going to start in about a week. And again that's only for Film Spotting Family members. So if you want to be part of that tournament you can.

45:00 All you have to do, yees, go to Filmspottingfamily dot com and become a member, participate in that tournament, get all those benefits and join the fun.

45:09 People can't get enough of madness. So very exciting that we get to offer family members a little extra like that. Again, that's Filmspotting Family dot Com. Now, there are other ways to support the show if if you would be so kind, you could rate us. Take a minute to give us a rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It doesn't matter if you're a brand new or go way back like Jim and Aaron. We do love getting reviews from all our listeners. Each one helps us find new listeners.

45:49 Well, it's time for some poll results. A couple of weeks ago, we asked you to choose one and only one Spielberg alien movie, a tie in, of course with the new disclosure day and with our new podcast movie deathmatch. Pretty simple, Josh. It's either nineteen seventy seven's Close Encounters of the Third Kind or it's nineteen eighty two's e t the Extra Terrestrial. We said last week that it was close, closer than we expected, and it did finish close, but we do have a clear winner. Which movie took it.

46:23 ET's the winner here, Et goes home with fifty three percent of the vote to Close Encounters forty seven percent. Sean Wade in with a comment, tough question because these are to all timers, but your hypothesis about demographics holds true for me. I saw ET at four years old among the earliest movie going experiences I remember.

46:45 TJR. Says, I was born in seventy seven and saw Et at the drive in earliest clear memory of a movie. But my vote goes to Close Encounters because I saw it once as I was turning into an adult movie lover and had to set childish things aside. I love ET, but I'll choose to watch Close Encounters over it.

47:02 Okay, I know you're not calling Et childish, TJR. So we'll let that go. Here's Tory lightcap. Truly, there's no wrong answer here. Both films communicate core truths of human experience and hit deep emotional beats. I just find the esthetic, visual and soundscape elements of Close Encounters slightly more digable diggable.

47:23 Great Jordan from Studio City says, shame on you guys for not including War the Worlds in this poll. Well, then it wouldn't be a death match. And also, hey, I've only seen War of the Worlds once back in two thousand and five. Maybe i'd have a different reaction to it now. Josh wasn't a fan then. No, it was never going to win. And I realize I'm very much in the minority by putting it in my top five Spielberg but it should still be in the conversation the way he frames the invasion from a civilian standpoint, putting what really matters in perspective, and it's probably the best example of post nine to eleven filmmaking outside of twenty fifth Hour. I forgive you for not adding Crystal Skull, though,

48:00 well thank you.

48:02 Now see I was hoping that I could cause more trouble here and say that actually Crystal Skull better than War the War of the World's because I do like Crystal Skull, as you know, or could guess happen. But I look at my Spielberg ranking. Unfortunately I can't. I can't play that card. I do. I like World WARLD, it's pretty well, it's tenth. Okay my Spielberg ranking. I think Crystal Skull, which again is good, is somewhere closer to I don't know, the teens, So yeah, Unfortunately, no Crystal Skull defense from me this time around.

48:38 I am not going to bring up my Spielberg ranking on letterbox, but I know that I have Crystal Skull higher than War of the World, so that absolutely applies.

48:46 That applies to turn.

48:47 In to you.

48:48 Sorry, Jordan. Thanks to everyone who voted and who left feedback. You can look for Movie Deathmatch in your film Spotting feed the first Monday of every month. Coming to you Monday, July sixth. It's a really good one. We're looking ahead to Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey. Inception versus Interstellar, a little bit like Close Encounters versus ET if you really want to simplify it. The Head versus the Heart representing Inception from New York Magazine and Vulture. I think I referenced this or teased it a while back. Josh someone who we've greatly respected for a long time, but until I spoke to him on the phone approaching him about doing this show, I had never spoken to. Obviously, we have lots of friends in common, but I had never spoken

49:41 to and this person has never been involved in film spotting in any way over twenty one years, and I was so glad that he said, yeah, this sounds great. I'm happy to do it. Bilga Abiri is representing inceptions such a great critic.

49:56 Yeah, he really is, and it's so nice to bring him into the film spotting circle in this way. So that'll be exciting to hear him on that episode.

50:05 Yeah, and representing Interstellar. We like close Encounters. We said, there's a lot of science going on here. Obviously, let's get someone who can really speak that language. And Abigail James, she's a physicist pH d candidate at All Oxford. She goes by pop culture scientist on YouTube extensive following Josh and talk about being grateful when they said yes. She also said I love Interstellar. I'm pretty sure. She said it's the best movie made about science ever. So take that anybody who thinks the science doesn't make sense, she is more than prepared to tell you that it does.

50:50 And in fact, I know how long the recording went. So they both they both had so much to say about these films. They're so passionate about them. It's going to be a great episode that we're excited to share with you.

51:01 On July sixth, did she bring charts and graphs? So I suppose that wouldn't have worked quite as well for a podcast. So maybe No, I don't think there. We did video it, of course, but I don't think there are any props. Okay, sounds like she doesn't need it. Sounds like she'll know quite convincing on without all that.

51:17 Yeah, the new deeply flawed pole or it's just evil genius as Josh that has us looking ahead to next week's blind Cow review of Independence Day. Now, I will explain this a little bit more when we get into the choices I did not explain blind Cow. First of all, I'm gonna explain why I didn't see it. Maybe, but I'm gonna explain why I didn't see nineteen ninety six is number one movie at the box office back in the day, Why it's a blind cow? That movie is Independence Day. Our poll question is returning us to those heady days of nineties blockbusters. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, choose one pair of nineties blockbusters. So we're gonna give you the number one and number two films at the box office in their respective years, domestic,

52:08 not adjusted for inflation, not international, just domestic. The catch is that these are the only two films you get from the movie year and Deathmatch and incinerator rules are activated. These are the only two films you get. So I guess Sam suggesting right that you have to pretend these are the only two movies that exist forever. Yes, well sure that sure, I mean I think the important thing.

52:37 I think the important thing here the way I interpret it is that or just from others, all go away? Yeah, everything, all go away? Yeah, Yeah, Okay, it's it's more I guess that's up for sure than what I guess for interpretation. But yes, a minimum, you're losing everything else, so you're deeply flawed, but completely fact based options are these Josh hit.

53:00 Them Starting in nineteen ninety Home Alone and ghost YEP number one and number two at the box office in nineteen ninety all right nineteen ninety one, Terminator two and Prints of Thieves, Little Robin Hood tie in there. Nineteen ninety two is Aladdin and Home Alone too, Jeesh Dire nineteen ninety three, Giraff Park and Missus Doubtfire. This is why this is so great. Never to a million years what I have guessed that Missus Doubtfire was the number two box office film in nineteen ninety three, nineteen ninety four.

53:32 How about Forrest Gump and the Lion King ninety five gives us toy Story and Batman Forever. This is the one with Val Kilmer as the Dark Knight nineteen ninety six. You had Independence Day and Twister, a lot of disaster going on nineteen ninety seven, Titanic and Men in Black nineteen ninety eight, Saving Private Ryan and Armageddon in nineteen ninety nine gave us the Phantom Menace and the sixth sense.

54:00 So I think that's brilliant because I would never have thought of concocting this, for one thing, and also I understood it the first time Sam laid it out. Sometimes sometimes our deeply followed polls. I need to get a consultant. I need to do some math. I need to just sit with myself for a moment and then think about it.

54:21 This I get it. I never would have thought of it. And I just love seeing all these movies paired together. It's really got me doing mental gymnastics.

54:31 Well, I want to hear you tell us the result of those mental gymnastics. I did just want to explain as I was looking at this, it it all came back to me. You may recall from our review of what was what was that sequel? What was the sequel to Twister? Twisted? What did they called her? I hope they called it twisted Muttle better? Yes, when when we also talked about Twist back in ninety six, I was working that summer at the movie theater in my hometown, and of course those movies, both of them, just they stayed there for weeks, you know, just people could not And of course I'm living in a town where we'd get tornado sirens and fairly regularly, and people we'd have to go to our basements and stuff. So Twister just

55:21 people ate it up. But Independence Day was hugely popular as well, and I remember constantly having to go into the theater to tell people to put their feet down, and I'd have to thread the projectors. So I saw parts of both movies, lots of parts. But I was full on, of course, in my I was a junior in college going into my senior year, so I was full on in my movie snob phase. Yeah, And I did not care about this populous nonsense and had no interest in seeing either film. And I still have never watched Independence Day. And as you know, I did not see Twister until last year or whenever it was, so.

56:07 Really it was a matter of moral principle for you, and you stood to it. I do like the idea that you have somewhere planed in your brain, a single movie comprised of random scenes of Twister and Independence Stay and you know, like like a Twister takes out the White House in this version, or I don't know what's going on, but I'm glad, I'm glad you have that.

56:29 I at that time, Adam, of course, was you know, not a snob. Maybe I had to grow in that into that. Yet I was just out of college trying to make it as a freelance movie critic. So I had the assignment for the Daily Southtown here southern suburbs of Chicago, Southside reviewing Independence Day, where I gave it.

56:49 I gave it a three out of four stars. So I don't know that it's you, man of the people, Man of the people. I mean, I could appreciate just the things that others can appreciate as well. But yeah, we'll see. Maybe I will be proven to be the snob this time around, Adam with that blind cow, and I will be the one who say says after another viewing, none of this, none of this tripe for me.

57:17 Yeah, well we'll get into that now. Sam really wants us to weigh in not just on what we're going to pick, but how we think our listeners are going to pick. So let's start there, and does your personal preference line up?

57:33 Uh?

57:33 No, I'm not going where I predict listeners will go. I also would love to play, you know, the stereotype role and say I'm going with the Phantom Menace and the sixth sense. I thought it was because it's for you. Yeah, I mean six cents top ten horror of all time. I am a prequel defender and the thought of losing the pod Race alone to the Incinerator makes me shut a tear. But what's interesting when you look at these as pairs, I'm finding that you have a couple of the animated titles throwing a wrench in things. So Toy Story, which I still think is the absolute best. I can't imagine.

58:18 I know we get the others, but as my review just showed you, they're they're good. Still diminishing returns to live without Toy Story seems unimaginable, but I think My vote is going to be swung by another animated film, and it's The Lion King because it's one of my favorite Disney's and I am a defender of Forrest Gump as well. It's been a while since i've seen it.

58:44 I think, did we do a Forest Gump versus Pulp fiction episode?

58:48 Maybe maybe like years ago? Though no, maybe just we just did. I don't think we've done it. We I think we talked about it, but I don't remember us actually doing a saintracw on Forrest Gump, and we should.

59:01 I have seen it since its release, basically, so I've given Forrest Gump more consideration. I understand, you know, particularly the political you know, the political elements that people do not like about Forrest Gump. But I still think it's a really good film, one of Zamecha's best. And so that's where I think I'm going to land Adam is it's that one two combo. It's the combo that Sam has concocted here that is ultimately going to sway my vote.

59:33 I can't just go with six cents and want to, you know, play prequel defender. I've got to go with Forrest Gump and the Lion King.

59:42 Okay, before now, what do you think? What do you think then listeners are going to do? Did you weigh in?

59:47 I think Titanic is just too much of a behemoth. Yeah, I think you know, and I do think Men in Black is affectionately regarded still, and so I think you have you know, whatever it is about Titanic, which is fine. I like it. Whatever that has, you know, lulled generations. At this point, you have that power, and then you throw in something nostalgic and fun like Men in Black.

1:00:11 I think that's probably where it'll go. But again, some a poll like this, who knows?

1:00:17 Okay, before I tell you my answer, I just for fun. I wanted to see if this would change anything for either of us, and I did look up how it would alter the pole if you went with international results over domestic, and it changes a couple of the pairings, and Josh, this might actually affect you, especially based on what you just said about Anna.

1:00:45 Wait wait minute, you're bringing an international box office to this.

1:00:48 Yeah, just for kicks, just to see how it changes.

1:00:50 Just praise this poll for being simple. What are you doing?

1:00:54 Play along? You'll find it interesting if if you go international instead of domestic. Nineteen ninety one is one of the years that changes. Terminator two is still in the top two. Prince of Thieves is out, though, and Beauty and the Beast is in.

1:01:13 Oh yeah, see it does. Yeah, that's right. I told you.

1:01:16 I told you that would be tough for you. Okay, how about this? This also changes things I think for a lot of people. Nineteen ninety two, Aladdin stays in. Yeah, but Home Alone two gone, ugh, replaced, replaced by the far superior Batman returns.

1:01:38 Yeah that's hard to Yeah.

1:01:40 Right, Okay, Now here's one that would seriously complicate things for me in terms of my answer. And I still don't know how.

1:01:45 This approving that international audiences have far better take.

1:01:48 Apparently better take Americ, this would really change it for me and and maybe you too, even though I don't think you like this movie as much as I do. But it still gets rid of a seriously inferior film. Ninety five, Toy Story stays, Batman Forever is gone. Do you know what the number one movie at the box office internationally was in nineteen ninety five? It would be would Fincher seven hah you can give me twenty gets out of guys, I never would have come up with it.

1:02:21 And here's the here's the last one that's also crazy. This will not change your answer. It's just crazy. Nineteen ninety seven Titanic, of course stays. But Men in Black is out, and this will, this will seriously challenge your theory about international audience as being more savvy and sophisticated.

1:02:42 Men in Black is out and the number two highest grosser.

1:02:47 Bean I was going to guess, Why didn't I guess I.

1:02:54 I didn't give you a chance because I didn't think there.

1:02:56 Was any way on the going to make a joke about mister bean. I couldn't remember if was that old? Yeah, that explained, well, you know, I don't know. Yeah, Well, here's he's an unstoppable force.

1:03:09 Unstoppable force. The way I broke this down, every single pairing has one good movie, good to great movie. Yeah, but only three for me have two good movies. Only three have two good movies, and those are nineteen ninety three Jurassic Park and Missus Doubtfire. And you know I don't love Jurassic Park the way many of our listeners do.

1:03:36 You do love Missus Doubtfire. Beyond that, any one else, Yes.

1:03:40 Beyond anyone else. Missus doutfire saw it in the theater. I was, I was very much in my Robin Williams is the best phase and it's it's an amusing, very amusing movie.

1:03:49 So I see that as the terms of point from from populist adam to yes, it was right there, it was, missus doubtfire.

1:03:59 Yes, there you go. I didn't say how much I had to love the movies. I just said good, okayneteen nineteen ninety four, I'm with you Forrest Gump and the Lion King. And then the third one is nineteen ninety seven Titanic and Men in Black. Those are the three for movies, the only three that have two good movies.

1:04:24 So which of the three has the two goodest? You know? The answer is the answer here's you're you're gonna love this, Josh, and our listeners are gonna they're gonna lose when I say this.

1:04:41 Wo okay, I'm go ahead. I'm just I'm curious about your math, Like, why doesn't the best movie hold more sway than needing both to be good?

1:04:50 I guess that's just not how my I'm I'm I'm doing some math where I'm you know, is it the scale? The scale, balanced numbers?

1:05:02 I see what you're doing. Yeah, you know.

1:05:04 So Titanic and Men in Black are the two best films, and and honestly, Josh, you say, you say, why doesn't it matter which one has the the best? Well of those six movies, I think Titanic's the best film. I think Titanic's the best film.

1:05:22 Of better than Ryan King and Forrest Gump. Correct.

1:05:25 I think Titanic's the best film, and I think it has the best best partner in Men in Black. So the answer should be simply nineteen ninety seven. Except I'm going to be totally honest with you, as I've really thought about this poll a lot, and I've really thought about it in terms of incinerator rules, like I can only watch these two movies, whichever two movies here, Yeah, for the end of time and all the other ones are gone.

1:05:53 You're not watching Titanic.

1:05:55 I'm not watching Titanic, and I'm not watching Men in Black. Do you know what I'm watching?

1:06:01 Yeah, missus, doubtfire.

1:06:03 I'm watching the sixth Sense in The Phantom Menace.

1:06:06 No way, I am, No way I.

1:06:09 Am, because the Phantom Menace while still a two star movie, great scene, still is still a Star Wars movie with things about it, individual scene, with some great scenes and some things about it that I still really appreciate that we talked about back in twenty nineteen. And I would rather watch those two movies if I could only watch so happy. I would rather watch those two movies than any other happy.

1:06:36 Can I change my vote and we could start a movement? Yes, and maybe we'll get the Phantom Menace to win this poll. That make my summer.

1:06:44 That's my vote, deal with it. I'm I'm going nineteen. I'm going nineteen ninety nine. In terms of where I think listeners will go, I'm with you. I think it's either ninety seven Titanic Men in Black or we joke about Missus Doubtfire. I think the Jurassic Park Love from ninety three, Yeah, is going to carry it. I think it's between those two. After that Independence Day Twister is going to be a force. That one ninety six is going to do well. And I do think Terminator two in Prince of Thieves is going to.

1:07:13 That's what I was looking at. I just I have no sense those four if anyone even remembers Prince of Thieves. It's it's almost like if TERMINI two have been paired with just think onlything else. Yeah, probably actually probably so. Yeah, we'll see what happens.

1:07:30 Okay, vote in that poll. Make your disparaging comments about my pick. I don't care. You can leave that comment at film spotting dot net.

1:07:43 Peo will speak of Robin Hood, tell my stories.

1:07:48 Ah, he was not a hero. You were a murderer's brigand.

1:07:57 The Death of Robin Hood is the latest from writer director Michael Sarnowski, who made Pig That One starred Nicholas Cage, and he also made the Quiet Place prequel Day One. In his new film, Hugh Jackman plays the Prince of Thieves. But this is not the dashing, quick witted Errol Flynn Robin, or even that broody, unevenly accented Kevin Costner Robin. The title gives you a sense of what we're getting here, A darker, sadder, morbid Robin Hood, perhaps thinking of Hugh Jackman more of a Logan Wolverine Adam. It seems like somewhat familiar territory in its approach and its star. I don't recall if you liked Logan most people did. But where do you place the death of Robin Hood in terms of that film and just what Jackman is trying

1:08:50 to do here, or maybe it's more interesting as a Sarnowski film. He is not the name I would have expected to see attached to this project. I'll be honest with you.

1:09:00 I am I believe in the minority in not being a big fan of Logan when it came out, and I can understand why people might think this is familiar ground for him. On the surface, it very much is, but they're missing a lot of nuance in terms of the characters. Yes, they're aging, aging outlaws, I suppose in some ways, and they're grappling with violence or their past, but where these characters end up are very different. So that's a pretty superficial reading. Ultimately, I think if you if you compare the two films, I really wish that I had seen A Quiet Place Day One, the Sarnovsky film that followed Pig, because I I could better speak to how these three films all fit together. I suppose and think about him as more of an O tour

1:09:53 having just seen Pig and now this, I don't know that I can really do that and Instead, I'm just going to focus on this film, Josh. I do wish you had seen it now, because there's a lot to talk about. The description for this movie is grappling with his violent past. Robin Hood finds himself gravely injured after a battle that he thought would be his last. He soon gets a chance of salvation when he meets a mysterious woman and a young girl. And that's technically accurate, but I'd argue that it's a misreproentation of the movie because a misrepresentation because even though the language is passive, he soon gets a chance at salvation, right, not he seeks salvation. When you read it, it's implied that he

1:10:40 would be seeking it, because that's what these movies about aging outlaws are always about. The question isn't whether they'll be redeemed, it's how, and to some extent, whether they deserve to be redeemed or that's the central tension, even though in the end we're always rooting for them to be redeemed. Sarnowsky quickly dispenses with any notion that deserves got something to do with it when it comes to Robin's redemption. And yes, I'm intentionally referencing Unforgiven and William Money, because that would be the other touchstone here for a film like this, though, I think, just like with Logan, this movie goes to a different place. He's not just anti the Robin of our legends Joshu when we meet him.

1:11:30 He's not a good man who's done bad things that he's ashamed of. He's a terrible man who's done terrible things that he seemingly feels no shame about. To make sure we're not clinging to any false notions of Robin Hood's heroism, within the first fifteen minutes, Sarnovsky has him swiftly kill a young girl who can't be more than about fourteen or fifteen, and an even younger boy, the first one, in fairness, is in self defense, but it's not really necessary that he kills her, And there's a brutishness about the act and an undeniable disregard for human life that he displays there and throughout, And the more we learn about his past, the worse he becomes. It doesn't get any better, it just gets grimmer and bleaker.

1:12:24 So it's not a pleasant watch. It's certainly not a pleasant watch for the first forty five minutes of the film, where it is quite intentionally intended to be very punishing. What I ultimately find interesting about the Death of Robinhood, interesting enough to recommend, interesting enough that I think it's worth talking about, is how it subverts our expectations as a redemption tale with a hero who's truly beyond it, who isn't seeking it, where redemption is actually put upon him when all he wants and should get is death.

1:13:04 There's nothing particularly provocative about it, as the title would suggest, about it as a deconstruction of the Robin Hood tale or myths and our need for them, and the consequences of buying into false ideologies. I'll tell you this about how punishing it it is in terms of the filmmaking Sarnovsky and his crew, the way they depict the brutality of thirteenth century England's shot in Northern Ireland. There is a point in the film I said, maybe I didn't look at my watch, but maybe about forty five it's not quite halfway through. I don't think forty five to fifty minutes in where Robin ends up at a priory on an island and Jody Comer is the prioress, and her whole thing is that she heals the sick and

1:13:52 the wounded. It starts with cinematography in some of the production design even before this, but there's a moment where Robin ventures outside for the first time outside of his room, and you recognize that, oh, the aspect ratio has actually changed, and there's sunlight, and there's flowers. There's color in the flowers and trees, and there's color in the clothing that people are wearing. Oh, and there there are people about, even though this is an island full of sick people, and they're laughing and they're smiling, and it stands in such stark contrast to the dismal, muddy, gray, foggy awfulness that we've been immersed in for the previous forty five minutes that I'm not kidding. It almost feels like we

1:14:43 walked into Disney Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs or something. It feels like that kind of fantasy world. It's that striking, and part of that, I think is that you can tell early on that they're trying to do everything as practically as possible. The way body parts are splitting, and when Robin fights with a guy almost He almost asphyxiates in a barn that's on fire. The fight is just two exhausted older guys who are rolling around in the mud.

1:15:19 There's nothing thrilled about a lot of the fight scenes. It's just ugliness. And that transition functions, I think primarily on that level where we're meant to mark this passing of this character into this new realm and this new possibility. But I'll just say this, seeing this bad man in this space that's so vibrant and so alive, I wondered it just made me think about to what extent we are truly products of our environment. Yes, of course we all make choices, and not everyone has made the choices that Robin has made. But when every single moment of your life has been spent just thinking about survival, just moment to moments survival as it was for thirteenth century peasants, there's not a lot of nobility, there's no comfort. Violence

1:16:14 and bloodshed are just facts of life, and so there's there are elements like that that the movie does tease out a little bit. And the last thing I want to say that I do appreciate about the film. Bill Scarsguard plays little John, and he's not in the movie for a long time. This guy, what is it about Bill Scarsguard that just constantly, at least for me, impresses.

1:16:43 I suppose I'll try to venture an answer, even though there is nothing about his nothing really about his makeup, nothing dramatic about his makeup or his costuming that makes him look significantly different than how he looks in real life. I spent every moment he was on screen looking at him, going who is this guy? Why I know I recognize him?

1:17:06 I know who this guy is. It's killing me. And why is he so damn good? How is it that I don't know this guy when he is so damn good every single moment, And then of course you find out after who it is, and you feel like an idiot because you do know who he is, and you do think, or you have thought, he's good in basically everything you've seen him in. But Josh is just something about the way that he always alters himself physically but also vocally that he finds in these characters and every character he plays that makes him indistinguishable character to character, And he's always magnetic. And you also see here even though he's little John. You understand why he gets cast to play monsters because he somehow just seems to have

1:17:59 this inate ability to summon extra human forces, and it's on display even playing even playing this character, I just loved watching him every time he was on screen opposite Jackman.

1:18:14 Will be a mighty battle one full of stories, Yeah, strongly.

1:18:28 I come from an old family, they say it from Viking vook On. There's a story the Womster elder father, photo Bear. It would be a multi battle robin.

1:18:42 There is a lot more that we could dig into with this film. I was mostly, as I've been trying to do here anyways, trying to process why despite the unpleasantness, and why despite for most of its running time, I was trying to make sense of what this movie was even trying to say, or why why Sartowsky made it.

1:19:05 I'm wrestling with that, and this is the best I could do in the end, and I think that there's enough. There's enough there to justify the experience.

1:19:14 You know that the Irishman is knocking around in my head and a recent rewatch I did a this sounds very similar about this notion of being dragged into redemption. You know, it's sort of a different just a slightly different angle on what is a fairly you know, familiar dramatic thrust or narrative arc that maybe this film is trying to bring to that idea as well.

1:19:39 The Death of Robinhood out now in wide release. Definitely would love to hear your thoughts if you have seen it, especially if you had a different experience then I did you caught up with Rows of Nevada from UK director Mark Jenkin. This is a filmmaker you've stayed on top of. I am zero for three, but he made twenty nineteen's Bait, he made twenty twenty two's and His Mind. These are two micro budgeted movies that you liked, and this film sees him going a bit more mainstream. I suppose a bit more higher budgeted as well. Callum Turner stars George mackay stars. They play men who joined the crew of a mysterious ship that is returned to a village after vanishing thirty years earlier. What'd you think?

1:20:27 Yeah, I think there's probably a bigger budget here, though it still feels very Indie. Those two you mentioned are quite good and bigger names than he's worked with in the movies of his that I've seen. I'd also call out rosalind Eliezar, who has a supporting part here. I know her from the series Slow Horses, where she's just fantastic, and she's really good here as well, so maybe a slightly higher level of cast. I'm going to call this a ghost story, Adam, because I want as many people to go see this as possible, even though I'm a little worried that that might set up expectations that Rosa Nevada doesn't entirely deliver. It's something of it's almost oblique horror in the way it's coming at certain conceits that

1:21:14 could be explored more directly or obviously, and just allowing them to yet haunt us, but in different ways. And Jenkin from the three movies I've seen, and this is my favorite of those three, it strikes me that he relies on insert shots as part of the film grammar more than any contemporary filmmaker I know of, and in a way that could be seen. It makes the movies initially feel perhaps rudimentary, like, you know, why are you cutting to an insert shot of a hand doing something instead of saying further back and letting us observe that on our own. Perhaps it's very deliberate, it's very intentional, but if you can adjust to it, it does give it almost this avant garde sensibility to it while staying

1:22:10 within the constraint, particularly with Rose of Nevada of a fairly straightforward story. So I think I like that combination here and this town that is, you know, down on its luck. We learn all of that from just these really smartly composed, finely observed shots of rusting anchors on the shore that haven't been used in twenty years, fishing nuts, things like that that give us all the information we really need. And Jenkin smartly uses the sound design to put us kind of on edge as well, very intense use of colors in his last two films. Bait is actually in black and white, but here the yellow slickers of the fishermen, a red baseball hat. Just things like that make for a composition that is always entrancing. And

1:23:03 then you put that in the confines of characters wrestling with the past and how it is haunting them. Quite literally that comes to be the case, and what it means both for them as individuals and this community where time has passed them by. It's just a really interesting way to think about this. It's not nostalgic for life when the fishing village was thriving. It isn't just about mourning that in a way it embraces, you know, moving on.

1:23:32 It really gets your mind thinking in different ways about some of these things. And you know, it also made me think of Adam. This is a movie in our Agnes varda marathon that might have been the one we started with, and I think we both both liked it, but as we got to see more of her work, we became entranced with with other films. But Lapointe Court, which was set in a French you know, Seaside Village, also employed insert shots in a similar way to just make the setting sync in but also give us psychological insights to the characters. So that's sort of the avant garde element I'm thinking of. So yeah, if this sounds intriguing, it all, seek out Rose of Nevada. It is a ghost story. It'll be a little different than you might

1:24:16 be expecting, but I think it's definitely worth the experience. And I do think it's a good point for Jenkin, who has made films beyond those three. I think earlier he has a feature too. These are the ones I've seen. Very idiosyncratic singular filmmaker Rose of Nevada, I would suggest as a good place to start.

1:24:38 All right, Rosa Nevada out in limited release. We'd love to hear your thoughts about it, or any other thoughts about our show. You can contact us anytime feedback at filmspotting dot net. Josh that is our show.

1:24:52 If you'd like to contact us on social media, you can find Adam and the show on Instagram, Facebook, letterboxed, YouTube, and blue Sky. At film spotting, I'm at those places as Larsen on film We are independently produced and listeners supported. You can support the show by joining the film Spotting Family at film spotting family dot com. You can listen early and ad free, plus get monthly bonus episodes, a weekly newsletter, and access to the entire show archive. For show t shirts and other merch go to filmspotty dot net slash.

1:25:23 Shop out streaming now you can see John Cena and Eric andre I always screw this up. Why do I never know if it's Sena or Sena? Why do I screw that up?

1:25:33 Josh Im gonna go.

1:25:35 We have it in the pronunciation guide.

1:25:37 Let me let me chee that. But let's go with Sena for now.

1:25:40 Sena and Eric Andre in the Netflix comedy Little Brother, Jackass, Best and last is out wide aka Jackass five, making it toy story five for naughty kids. Let's go with that Lucky Strike. During World War two's Battle of the Bulge, a wounded American soldier played by Scott Eastwood tries to stay alive behind enemy lines. Supergirl also out do we have a definitive ruling?

1:26:04 Josh Well checking the Film Spotting pronunciation Guide, we do have John Cena and then nothing after his name, so we got we gotta get on that. So someone began the task but didn't complete it.

1:26:17 That's very helpful. Next week in the Film Spotting Feed, you can hear on Tuesday, Film Spotting Streaming video unit talking about Julian Schnobbles in the Hand of Dante with Oscar Isaac in dual roles as Dante himself and a present day writer who steals an original manuscript of the divine comedy that's on Netflix. And I know I am a broken record with this here again proving why we need SVU, a new Julian schnobl movie, a new movie starring Oscar Isaac and it's about Dante. No clue this was coming out, new, new, new, Thank you. The Next Picture Show is continuing their pairing of Disclosure Day and ET.

1:26:57 You can look for that in their feed. And on Friday. Yes, I am finally going to watch Independence Day. We're going to celebrate America for Independence Day's thirtieth anniversary the only way we know how and America's two hundred and fiftieth anniversary. And I'm sure everyone will rejoice that I have finally watched one of our all time great cinematic achievements.

1:27:21 Oh, keep going with that, Okay, Yeah, let's say that for now. Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe Desso and Sam van Holgren. Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go. Our production assistant is Sophie Kempinar. Special thanks to everyone at wb easy Chicago. More information is available at wbez dot org for Film Spotting.

1:27:41 I'm Josh Larson and I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening.

1:27:45 This conversation can serve no purpose anymore.

1:27:49 Good Bye,