Episode S4E3 (135): “Aging, Brain Health, and for the Sake of the Gospel” with Jerry Wiles

Hal Habecker 0:00 Music. Welcome to the finishing well podcast where we encourage seasoned believers to find meaningful ways to impact their world for the kingdom of God, whether you're 65 and up or not quite there. Yet, our mission is to prepare and encourage every person to finish well. Our prayer is that this podcast will encourage and strengthen you to glorify Christ as we intentionally engage our aging fears. Greetings, everybody out there in the podcast, land of finishing well, ministries. My name is Hal habecker, and it's my privilege to have a guest today named Jerry wiles. I won't say any more about him, but it's he's a fascinating person, and God has used him greatly in my life. Jerry, welcome to our podcast. Let's just jump right in. Tell us a little bit about your story and why, why? I want you to be a part of this podcast today. You're a fascinating person, and God has given you a special mission in the aging realm of spiritual growth. So tell us your story, Jerry and welcome.

Jerry Wiles 1:20 So thank you so much. It's my pleasure. As I mentioned to you earlier, I've become an unofficial ambassador for finishing well ministries and learning about what it means to be productive in our senior years. And the Lord blessed me back when I was a young guy, to get exposed to some senior leaders in their 70s, 80s, 90s and beyond, that had fruitful ministries and fruitful in their various professional endeavors. So I began to think about those things back in those days. But I'm a product of the Jesus revolution, Jesus movement of the early 70s, Asbury revival. So I've been on this journey for a while. In the 80s, I was introduced to orality. That's a new term to many people, but it has to do with oral cultures, oral learners. So oral communication of the scriptures, insights into African oral art, which was a doctoral dissertation by Herbert Clem, which got me on that journey. So I've been involved in training people in the area of morality, of reaching people who can't, don't or won't read or prefer to learn by means other than written instruction or print based media, which is the majority of the world. It doesn't have to do with whether people can read or not. It just has to do with worldview, culture, and how most people learn, communicate and and reproduce the information. So getting back to how Jesus really communicated, made disciples. He told stories and parables, asked questions and created communities. So this whole morality movement has been cutting edge and and transformational in many ways. So I'm still doing that, writing on it, speaking on it. But

Hal Habecker 3:09 so how does that relate to aging?

Jerry Wiles 3:13 Well, you know, getting into what the Bible talks about aging and and I think also I heard several years ago, actually, 1975 I heard Pat sonderman gave a presentation in a chapel service in seminary about Psalm. 92 the righteous will be like a palm tree, and they'll still bear fruit in old age, and I remember some of the points he brought out in that message, but in subsequent years, I did some research on palm trees and aging and how that that many times people's most fruitful years are in the senior year. So that really helped me get begin to think about these issues.

Hal Habecker 3:59 That's really awesome. Before I go any further, you mentioned just patern, who were one or two of those other earlier models lives of older people that impacted you.

Jerry Wiles 4:12 Well, the Lord, this is interesting how in the mid 70s, when I was in seminary, the Lord just gave me this verse, Proverbs 1320 says that He who walks with wise men will be wise. So I begin to pray that the Lord would let me get to know men and women who have Godly wisdom. So the Lord connected me with some names of some that are pretty well known, and some are not so well known, but people who, Stephen over for example, had a big influence on Billy Graham, Ian Thomas, Norman, Grubb, CL Culpepper, Bertha Smith, these were people who were in the like the shantung revival in China in the 20s and 30s. And come back to former missionaries, and there's a. Leonard Ravenhill, I connected with a good number of people in that in that arena. So Jim Downing, for example, who worked with Dawson Trotman in the early days of the navigators. He retired to take care of his wife, and then she passed away in 2010 I believe he was 97 years old at that time and and so he decided to reactivate, get it, reengaged in ministry, and continued on. I actually ran into some friends of his at a convention and asked about him, and this was a few years ago. They said, Yeah, he's 103 years old now he's still traveling, but his all his children who are in their 80s, are little concerned about him traveling by himself. Wow, he was, of course, I learned about James Houston through you and Michael Parker how and there are a few others that I've just examples of people who had really fruitful ministry. Many times, their most fruitful ministry has been in their later years. I think Francis Schaeffer is a good example of that. So we many, many mentors and models that the Lord's given me over the years, and I'm convinced that one of the things that we need to do is expose people to models of ministry, the people have had fruitful ministries. And you know, how has that happened?

Hal Habecker 6:24 I can't agree with you more, Jerry, as I tell my own story, people want to know, how did you start finishing well, ministries. Well, it has to do with the same idea. I mean, models of older people who have impacted your life in an amazing ways, and some of the same people impacted you, impacted me. Like, for example, I was at Taylor during that revival from Asbury. I remember Asbury students coming to Taylor to share about that. So our lives, you know, follow a similar track, and I'm grateful for that. Yeah,

Jerry Wiles 6:57 yeah. Well, those those years were amazing, and I, the Lord, just had me right in the middle of it. I was with, working with the southwestern company, recruiting, training and managing a sales organization while I was in college. And Asbury college was one of the schools that I recruited at among the 60 some odd colleges universities in 12 different states during that season, but that college, you know, colleges and youth have always been a part of spiritual awakening and revivals, and I spent many years studying, you know, church history and spiritual awakenings and how We got the Bible. I helped create a Bible Museum at Houston Christian university when it was Houston Baptist University. So I spent a few years studying how we got the Bible, you know, in all aspects

Hal Habecker 7:54 of spiritual movements. And isn't that where you met my brother gene?

Jerry Wiles 7:59 That's right, when we started, when we acquired that collection, I went up to New York and spent some time with him. And actually he and came, came down to Houston, and so we got connected, because the American Bible Society was, I mean, they had their library and archives, and it was a great resource for for research. So we acquired, at that time what was the largest collection of rare American Bibles and biblical artifacts in the existence in private hands outside the American Bible society's Library and Archive. So that's how we got connected, and was a great help. And so we've kind of been on the journey since then. Just

Hal Habecker 8:39 a simple comment, Jerry, I mean, something that resonates as I listen to you. You know, it seems to me that God goes way ahead of us, decades ahead of us. I mean, I think of you back in the 70s, the people you met, I think of the same thing that happened in my life. And here we are, decades later, with a vision for what God implanted in our lives decades ago. And I think that's a key to finishing well, because I like to ask people, why is it that God has laid hold of your life for this season? And I would think I mean, he wants to do as much in our latter years as he did in our former years, and he has, in a sense, set us up for his success in these years.

Jerry Wiles 9:29 Well, a term that I just came across recently, and I've been talking to people about this, about the compounding influence and impact for the Kingdom. You know anything about compounding? Interest? Compounding? Uh, influence or multiplying influence and impact. And of course, Jesus talked about that he gave the parables of the sower, the seed, the mustard seed, the yeast. And a friend of mine, years ago, I learned about the trim tab factor. So I write about it in my book of how. Little things can have big impact. And then the aspect of disciple making and kingdom advancing the kingdom, impacting the few who impact the many. You know, it's not about massive crusades and big meetings, although God uses that, but just influencing a few people that become multipliers. So I have many examples in my book of people who've just been, you know, leading people to the Lord and then seeing them grow and flourish and multiply. So Bill Bright, for example, I mean, and many others like him, you just look at the patterns of people God's used, and what are the things that made that happen? So just asking those questions, I think. And then, of course, being in the Scripture,

it's not a secret,

Hal Habecker 10:53 I often use the expression out of the book of Esther for such a time as this, she was there for God's purposes in our life. And I think that's the same for every aging person. God has a purpose for us at such a time as this in our lives today.

Jerry Wiles 11:13 Yeah, I just think if we can have a vision for the fact that regardless of our circumstances, that we have an opportunity to have an impact for the kingdom, and it's many times the most impactful is going to be in those senior years.

Hal Habecker 11:27 I want to drill down a little bit on your personal involvement with aging. Tell us a story about your wife and how God was using her experience. I'll let you tell that and how that has opened other doors for the value of aging and what God wants to do in our aging years.

Jerry Wiles 11:49 Well, first of all, I was married to a very bright lady that I met in college, and she just graduated from high school and got married in 1970 I met her in 1969 I spent four years in the Air Force, and then so a very bright, beautiful, godly lady. And of course, we were on the journey together. We were impacted during those early 70 years. But her her dad passed away in the 80s, and he had Alzheimer's disease. In subsequent years, we found out that several of her siblings and other family members she grew up in

Missouri, Southeast Missouri,

had various memory issues, maybe some dementia or Alzheimer's, but didn't get proper diagnosis. So a couple of years before she got diagnosed, she started having some other health related issues, but when she was finally diagnosed, that just, of course, that was a transformational season in many ways. So I started learning about the memory care industry and the various aspects of that. So started doing some research and how and caregiving. Of course, I was her primary caregiver. And the last three years became increasingly difficult until she went into a memory care facility. So this is

Hal Habecker 13:13 very recent. I mean, in the last five years, three years last

Jerry Wiles 13:17 year, she passed away last, last year, last so in February of 23 she progressed to the point that she needed constant observation and supervision and and the best option was the memory care facility right now where we live. So she went into the memory care facility in February, she had a fall and broke her hip, and had to have hip replacement surgery in April, and that accelerated her condition. And of course, she passed away in July. But it was during that season that I got connected with many people who are going through the same thing, and so doing research, and probably in the Houston area is the best place on the planet for these kind of resources, because if we were in Northeast Arkansas or southwest Missouri, and you wouldn't have that, that many resources so but anyway, it's, it's, there's a, it's a global thing. And of course, my journey in the orality movement and just learning about cultures, about the way people learn, communicate, process information, everything from diet and exercise to social interaction to mental stimulation. I mean, there's so many different aspects that that that's helpful to know.

Hal Habecker 14:36 So how did God, I mean, God use this to launch you into this in a in a deeper and serious way. So, I mean, just a couple things. What are you discovering out of the out of out of how God has set you up, in a sense?

Jerry Wiles 14:53 Well, I'm thinking back on it, if had I known 15 or 20 years ago, lifestyle? Changes, diet, exercise, everything related to nutrition, everything from just the power of music, the power of social interaction, the various aspects of therapy or preventive kind of things that people can do that will probably minimize the possibility of memory loss or getting dementia or Alzheimer's. So there's a lot of solutions out there that, I mean, a lot of a lot of research going on in this area, some of it is not so good and but, you know, we just do what we do based on what we know at the time. And I'm thankful that I learned enough to manage it better than most because of some of the stores I know of other people the way, it's so Desi, you know, it's so destructive. But, you know, I just had to take perspective that this is not her. She can't help it. I mean, so the memory loss is not, was not the most difficult thing. The most difficult thing was the mood swings and and personality changes, because she became just like a very different person. But I had just had to recognize and just take a lot of a lot of grace to to manage that relationship. Because, I mean, some people become very violent. Some people become very they just do crazy things. I mean, they basically a degenerative brain disease causes all kinds of problems. So if you don't know how to manage it and respond to it, it's going to be much worse. So I'm thankful that I learned what I learned and was able to manage it better than many people I know of

Hal Habecker 16:42 you know we could go down so many trails on this, but for general purposes, what, what are I mean? Are there three things, four things, five things, what would you say to us as we age, that we need to stay focused in on that would help us whether or not we would develop any memory issues or what. But what are the kinds of activities that aging people out of focus on and say, I want to stay alive and vibrant for Jesus? I mean, what does that mean?

Jerry Wiles 17:16 Well, the number one thing is social engagement, social interaction of being around people, reminiscence therapy or life review therapy, some people call that. So that's the number one thing. The second thing is exercise, mental I mean physical movement, keeping your body movement, plenty of exercise, blood flow, so exercise, social interactions, exercise, nutrition, learning. What's the best thing for your brain, health and diet and nutrition? The next thing is sleep. Sleep is like rebooting your brain, and most people are sleep deprived. Hydration is another aspect. Most people don't drink enough water. Your brain is primarily it's made up of water. So water, hydration and mental mental stimulation, a few doing a few basic things and improving that those aspects can make a big difference. Well,

Hal Habecker 18:23 it sounds fascinating. You don't know of a resource that would summarize that you could share with our audience? Do you? I do Wow.

Jerry Wiles 18:34 Brain sense is a book and it's the website. Is brain and memory health, dot O R G,

Hal Habecker 18:43 brain and memory health, dot O R G, yeah.

Jerry Wiles 18:48 Dr Linda Sasser, and she's become a friend and mentor long distance so but she's written a book called Brain sense. And sense stands for socialization, education, nutrition, sleep and education. Education being just mental stimulation, learning something new, doing something new, because there's something called neuroplasticity, and so it's when you think new thoughts, as you do new things, as you learn new things, it changes your brain, and it's never too late to learn new things, and it's never too late to have hope.

So I love it.

Hal Habecker 19:33 So helpful, so helpful. Jerry. So I want to go down one more trail, and then as I think back over this, I think it'd be great to have you come back and amplify some of these things. You've written a book on relational discipleship. That's the theme of it correct? Well,

Jerry Wiles 19:55 it's called simple relational disciple making. And then. Subtitle is ancient ways from modern times. So it's really getting back to and I differentiate between the modern Western concept of discipleship to biblical disciple making. What did Jesus mean when he said to make disciples? And so anyway, I just kind of clarify and help people to rethink some of these issues, because a lot of times we think in terms of modern, Western post reformation way of thinking about church and missions and the Great Commission, when in fact, it's simpler and it's it's not as complicated as we have made it in the church world in in our time. So getting back to the most basic things and the essentials of how much and what do people need to know to begin a relationship with Jesus, and how much and what do they need to know to be a reproducing follower of Jesus, to be a disciple maker. So all the years that I've spent in Asia, Africa and Latin America, under trees in West Africa training people who have never seen a Bible. And then that experience has been very helpful also. And what do we learn? I read an article years ago from from the bush to the boardroom, you know, what's the most basic things we learn in those places that might apply and in our culture?

Hal Habecker 21:19 I make a note of this stuff as you tell me,

you know, I'll just share my own experience and because I think it's one of the things that we can do, what well and finishing well Ministries for every person. Seems to me, discipleship is a life on life. It's not a content. You know, there are nonprofits out there who have summarized discipleship, you know, in simple ways, like the nav two seven program, which is great in terms of discipleship for content. But maybe what happens more in that is the life on life of the people as they meet through this process. And one of the things that I think God is showing me and showing us, and finishing well, that every older person can have a life on life impact through telling their story and being a part of a younger person's life. And that speaks of the generational impact that older people can have in a community, and like you said earlier, it's one on one or one on two. It's not a it's not a huge multiplication factor. And and every older Christian can and should be part of that discipleship making movement as they share their lives with younger people and even their own peers. Yeah, focus on that. Tell us about that a little bit. What you're doing exactly

Jerry Wiles 22:46 well. This is one of the topics I like to discuss in our training events. And we we often ask the question, What do you mean by discipleship? And if you ask 10 people that you'll get probably at least six different answers. So what we try to do is define the terms. When Jesus said, make disciples, communicate the gospel to every person and make disciples of all people groups. How are we going to do that? So he didn't say, make disciples of all literate people groups, but all people groups. So how are we going to do that with the people who have never seen a Bible? The Bible is people of the world, unreached, unengaged people groups. So getting to think about what are the essential things that people need to know, and what's the best delivery system? And of course, life on life, what you're talking about there is, we sometimes refer to integral mission, but so it's about demonstration and and proclamation. When you know, when we talk about preaching the gospel, communicating the gospel, it's not enough to preach the gospel. People need to hear it and understand it be able to process it and reproduce it. So the reproducibility part is so important. So the way we do our training, we want it to be biblical, understandable and reproducible. So simple doesn't mean simplistic, it just means understandable. And when it's understandable, people can process it and it can immediately be reproduced. So we have many examples of how people come to the Lord and immediately begin to share the gospel and see other people come to Christ. So we have some biblical examples of that as well. So telling the stories, the impact stories, and the examples of how God is working, is going to inspire people to think, I can do that. And I've seen that happen with many people's lives, is they will hear a story, or they'll see a demonstration of it, and they'll think, I can do that.

Hal Habecker 24:48 I think it's fascinating, Jerry, isn't that what I like to quote Psalm 7117 and 18. Oh God, you have taught me from my youth, and I still declare your wondrous D. Means, even when I'm old and gray, oh, God, don't forsake me until I declare your strength to this generation and your power to all who are to come. That's an a reality statement, is it not? That's it. And exactly, and every older person, I mean, can do that if God has given us life and breath, I mean, that should be part of our central mission, even with our own grown kids and grandkids, not to mention other generations coming beside us and behind us in the church,

Jerry Wiles 25:31 exactly, exactly.

Hal Habecker 25:35 Well, I'm fascinated. You're you have a new book coming out on this subject, then you say,

Jerry Wiles 25:42 Yes, simple relational disciple making, ancient ways for modern times. So it's published by leadership books, but it's on Amazon, but it's out there in various online bookstores and other places. But easiest place to start with would be Amazon books, yeah. But if people do a search for Jerry Wiles books, that's the most recent one.

Hal Habecker 26:07 Yeah. I was going to ask you that as we kind of think about winding this up today. You know, there's so much more we could talk about. And like I said, I'd like to come back and have some more conversations on this, as God opens the door. But if people wanted to follow you and find out more, of course they could go to Jerry Wiles books on Amazon. But what? What are some other places people could tap into what God is teaching you and what we could learn together?

Jerry Wiles 26:36 Well, one of the things would be the website water.cc/morality-training, okay, and orality is not morality. People think you're saying morality. We're not. We're all about morality too, but it's oralities or a, l, i, t, y, so Jerry wiles. Books will get you to the other resources, but water.cc/orality

that's training,

Hal Habecker 27:09 so tell us about just a simple wrap up. Here we you left that part out of your story. Water.cc What was your What was your role in that organization? What did you do? Well,

Jerry Wiles 27:21 I had the title of president for seven years. I was with I was recruited to serve as president of the organization in 2023, 2003 so I was in that, of course, I'm still with him as the president emeritus. And our growth and succession planning, we have new leadership, a new president and CEO. And so I'm still there as a part time consultant. So I still do training with Living Water International. It's a faith based water solutions organization. We drill, drill water wells and train nationals to construct and maintain water systems, also doing sanitation services and hygiene community development, and of course, we connect with medical missions as well. So Living Water nationalists, the organization I've been with mostly for the past 20 plus years, but I'm also served with a few other organizations in an advisory role.

Hal Habecker 28:19 Another thought just came to my mind, and with this, let me just try and sum up and love for you to sum up our time together. You you bring together a collection of different experiences you've had. I mean, with this living water idea, you're going back to aging, going back to your mission overseas experiences, I mean, and what I often talk about in aging, you know, what is the archeology of your life? What are your past experiences, and what is God trying to do through all of those in your latter years, in these last decades? I mean, it seems to me I'm sitting here listening to you, and I've seen all these things converge in your life in a very remarkable way. I mean, how would you encourage people in a finishing well ministry network to be aware of that and to do that in their own lives? Well,

Jerry Wiles 29:18 I would say, first of all, it's never too late for Hope is never too late to change. And there's opportunities at every stage in life. I have a friend who just recently told me he has an uncle who's 114 years old, and he walks six miles every day. Wow. He's an Afrikaner. He lives in South Africa, but 114 years old. He walks six miles every day. So there is a pattern here. And then, of course, in some of the other cultures, they have a more organic lifestyle. They don't have all the toxic things in our culture, but there are some things we can change in terms of diet, exercise, just a few basic, simple things. Things, but we just need to walk more. We need more physical movement, exercise, whatever form that might take. Even with disabilities, people have the opportunity for blood flow, but also hydration, hugs and hydration and humor. We had a conversation recently. I'm part of a discussion group. We talked about the value of hugs. And a lot of people don't have opportunities so much because of the friendship recession that we're living in and isolation.

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