Episode S7E02: “Walking with a friend through one of life’s greatest challenges – a potential terminal cancer diagnosis.”

0:02Narrator John today on the finishing well podcast,

0:06Jim Granberry God doesn't remove us from the pain of life, but he joins us in that pain so that we don't have to go it alone.

0:16Unknown Welcome to the finishing well podcast, where we encourage believers of every age to find meaningful ways to impact their world for the kingdom of God. Our mission is to prepare and encourage every person to live well and to finish well. We pray this podcast will be a source of strength and encouragement as we seek to glorify Christ as we engage him in our aging years.

0:35Unknown Now here's your host for finishing well. Hal habecker,

0:42Dr Hal Habecker welcome to the finishing well ministry podcast. Lan, I'm delighted to have you here today. I have a very special friend with me. We've known each other, Jim for 35 almost nearly 40 years. We've walked together through our kids at a school and in church together, and God has bound us together through a lot of common denominators in our life. And I'm thrilled that you're here with me for this podcast.

1:08Dr Hal Habecker Welcome Jim,

1:09Unknown thank you. Al, it's an honor to be here with you. We've walked a lot of life together.

1:15Dr Hal Habecker We have and all of it's God used it marvelous ways in each of our lives. You've been a great encouragement to me, and vice versa. And Well, anyways, we have a fascinating story to tell today, Jim, you've walked through life with a friend, a lifelong friend. You've known him from your kid years, and then you lost track of each other, and then you reconnected, and the past year is really what we want to talk about, but tell us about your friend and just bring us up to date with your early years.

1:51Unknown Well, thank you, Hal, it's a pleasure to talk about my friend Steve, who's really become in the number one circle of friendships. Steve and I grew up in the Lakewood area of Dallas, close to White Rock Lake, a Norman Rockwell type of neighborhood. We became friends in the first grade, 66 Wow, years ago, we first bonded over anything with wheels. We loved bicycles, and in those days, after school, our friends and I were free to roam the neighborhoods as far as we could bike, and we explored the creek bottoms that fed into White Rock Lake. There was one rule, be home by dinner time.

2:41Dr Hal Habecker In fact, don't you wish the world were still that way? Oh, I do.

2:44Unknown It was a great way to grow up.

2:47Dr Hal Habecker So you lived life with Steve through those early years, up through high school. Or how did it go?

2:53Unknown Yeah, through high school, and we continued to bond over wheels. There were go karts and mini bikes and motorcycles, and ultimately, cars. So all through school, we enjoyed those things. Steve and I were not the best athletes, but we were pretty good with wrenches.

3:12Dr Hal Habecker You know. Comment about that just for a second. I think it's great to have hobbies and things you're fascinated with that, bring you together with another friend.

3:24Unknown Oh, what a pleasure it is to have a friendship where we share passions.

3:30Dr Hal Habecker Yeah, and I love your passions for machines and everything with wheels on it. We could talk a lot about that sometime too, but that's not the course of our conversation today. So how did life develop with Steve? What happened during the middle years

3:45Unknown after high school? Hal, Steve and I sort of lost touch. We went different directions. We would see each other a few times a year. Eventually, we had families. We occasionally would meet as families after church for lunch, but our lives continue to go different directions, until about 10 years ago, and we re bonded deeply over our common interest in cars, and enjoyed going to car shows and talking about cars.

4:16Dr Hal Habecker You just ran into him through life one day, and you said, we need to pick this back up again. Yeah, basically, yeah. You know, one of the things that fascinates me, Jim, you go back to those early years. We've lived long enough, we're both well into our lives, and you never anticipate in your younger years how God will bring things together again in the latter years. Now we're in the latter years of life, and so you never dreamt of what might happen with you and Steve in those earlier years. But God is working ahead, and he's completing, bringing you guys back together for a purpose which neither of you ever even thought about. Well.

5:00Unknown That's right, and when we re bonded 10 years ago, not that there was ever a rift. There wasn't, or just our lives were taking different paths, but we bonded over memories of muscle cars and motorcycles and things. And even though I'd gone on to different brands of cars, more German and Italian. We really loved those old days and decided that we would restore a car from our youth, a 1970 SS, 396, El Camino, wow. But this time, rather than busting our knuckles doing the work ourselves, we hired a really great restoration company to do the work, and then each week, Steve and I would meet at the shop and review the work that had taken place during the previous week. Then we'd go and have a long lunch, and we'd talk

5:53Unknown more about it and what we were going to do with the car once it was restored. I miss those days. Those were really, really sweet times together.

6:04Dr Hal Habecker Well, what good memories to share. So how did life develop in this past year? You said something happened on February a year ago,

6:14Unknown February 5. I think it was, well, actually few weeks up until then, my friend Steve remarked that he was It was painful to eat, and it was he was having a hard time getting food down. His internist suggested that he get an upper GI. Steve asked me if I would pick him up from that appointment, because he was going to be under some, some, some influence of drugs, and couldn't drive. Steve has two daughters. One lives in Los Angeles, the other lives in Denver. He's single. There really wasn't anyone else to pick him up, and I said I'd do it. And so, defining moment, February 7, I was out at the curb when Steve walked out with pictures of his esophagus, and there was a squamous cell carcinoma tumor three inches

7:09Unknown long that was occluding his esophagus, and it had grown through the esophagus wall. And when I saw that, even though I'm not a medical person, I knew this was bound to be serious.

7:27Dr Hal Habecker It had to be a shock to him. And you of course, how did it develop? From then on? Just walk us through this year as it unfolds. Well.

7:40Unknown From there, Steve and I both took a very logical approach. Now, fortunately, Steve's career was in medical device sales, and he had a deep knowledge of anatomy. Pretty quickly he realized what he was dealing with. Our son's brother in law is a radiology oncologist, knows a lot about this type of cancer, so I enlisted his help and advice.

8:11Unknown He's a strong believer in Christ and very wise. So we developed a team, and he was part of it, and so started doing research within 30 minutes of my research, realized that the survival rate is fairly low, and if you do have a successful surgery related to it, there are a lot of life accommodations that must be made. And it's additionally complicated when a person is living alone and doesn't have daily help.

8:46Dr Hal Habecker So you became that friend to him, really, that walked step by step with those challenges.

8:54Unknown Yes, unfortunately, God, put it on my heart. I realized, you know, I'm the one his daughter in Los Angeles the previous month, and her young family had lost their home in the fires, wow. And so they were struggling with that, and so they weren't able to be as involved as they wanted to be, because they were just trying to survive themselves. Wonderful woman and his other daughter in Denver, wonderful as well, and she did come and spend significant time with Steve, but on a daily basis, interviewing doctors, making decisions. I was at Steve's side for most of those, and we approached it much like we did with problems with our cars. Well, let's gather all the facts and make some decisions,

9:48Dr Hal Habecker and let's hope we can fix it and see God change something. So the first couple months, I assume you know, what can you do to get well, what will it take? What kind of surgeries? Et cetera. So you walk through that, tell us a little bit about that, and then it would transition into something that was much more difficult. And the question of ultimate survival really comes full face. So talk about that immediate, those early months, and then the transition wins.

10:20Dr Hal Habecker And he started to realize, you know, I might not survive this. Within a week,

10:25Unknown it became apparent that he was going to require an esophagectomy. Fortunately, his tumor was in such a location that that had potential for being a successful procedure. Ultimately, it was not, and it's very serious, they cut out six inches of that esophagus and then bring the stomach up through the diaphragm, and the stomach reduces in its capacity.

10:50Unknown So in the best cases, then a patient ends up needing to eat six small meals daily, and there's great risk of aspiration. You have to sleep at a 25 or 30% incline. Lots of accommodations have to be made in the best case. But initially, he went through, of course, chemo and radiation, and had to shrink the tumor as much as possible before he could endure the surgery, which I think happened in on May, 6 or seventh, major surgery, seven hours.

11:27Dr Hal Habecker So talk about his recovery and how the next months unfolded.

11:33Unknown Well, the surgery didn't go well, although the doctor had thought that it did go well, and he had one of the best thoracic surgeons in the Southwest, and I'm sure it was not that doctor's fault, but he had leaks, and to have minor surgeries to try to repair the leaks. He was in the hospital for three weeks, maybe four weeks, maybe before he went home. Once he went home, his other daughter was here, he had further complications, had to go back to the hospital on an emergency basis. So really, how, from that first surgery in early May until Steve passed away Tuesday, a week ago, he was in a hospital 80%

12:16Dr Hal Habecker of his nights. So since May through the end of his life, you know, it was really hard and challenging.

12:25Unknown It was very hard. You know, through his battle with cancer, he demonstrated tremendous courage, tenacity and patience. He was a great example to his family and friends. Don't know if I could have been as strong as him because his quality of life was poor during that period of time.

12:47Dr Hal Habecker What characterized your conversations with him at that point? Did you talk about Scripture? Did you talk about the value? I mean, you must have talked about the value of life and what God was doing. I don't know where Steve was spiritually when he entered this time, but I know you had a big impact on his life spiritually. Talk about those conversations, the scriptures you might have used, and where was he in that process? Yes.

13:14Unknown Hal, so you know, Steve would have said he was a Christian. Attended church much of the time growing up, but he was not attending church. Had not attended church in a few years, and so number one on the list was to talk with him about whether or not he was truly saved. And so this occurred soon after his diagnosis in February, 7, and we sat down with a little Bible that I like to use for such purposes that an organization called Time to revive produces. And, you know, they make it simple and step by step. And we went through those steps and talked further, didn't come to a clear conclusion at that point. And then just Steve continued on, and I continued on, talking about spiritual matters through the days and

14:14Unknown weeks and months that followed. And we talked about some important scripture. Ephesians, two, eight and nine, as we know, For by grace, you have been saved through faith, and it is not your own doing. It's the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. We talked about Deuteronomy. 31, six, Be strong and courageous.

14:37Unknown Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the Lord your God goes with you. He will never leave you nor forsake you. And one of my favorites at a time like this is Second Corinthians 16 and 18. So we do not lose heart, though our outer self is wasting a. Way our inner self is being renewed day by day, for this light and momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal. So in other words, our bodies are in a constant process of decay through our whole lives, and eventually we're all going to

15:28Unknown die. Yet what we would love is for our spirit to be continually growing in our depth of our relationship with Christ, and so that scripture allowed me to talk with Steve about that, but then ultimately, to let his children and other family know that he's going to work as hard as he can with the best medical technology available through this process To be healed, but to get to the point where he can tell them he's also okay if he's not healed, if God does not choose to heal him, and God didn't choose to heal him and and really, that was a bit of a frustrating experience to Steve and I and to a number of folks who had prayed for him to be healed. And it was interesting.

16:24Unknown Three weeks ago, in a little church in Vail, my wife Sandy and I heard a message that reconciled this issue for me, and fortunately, I was able to pass this along to Steve before he died, and the pastor said, God doesn't remove us from the pain of life, but he joins us in that pain so that we don't have to

16:49Dr Hal Habecker go it alone. Do me a favor, Jim, say that again,

16:53Unknown God doesn't remove us from the pain of life, but he joins us in that pain so that we don't have to go it alone. Silence from God and the absence of healing doesn't mean that God is absent. God's promise for our future reminds us of where home really is, and Jesus didn't come to make life easy for us, but to make eternity possible.

17:25Dr Hal Habecker Wow, they're powerful words, Jim, I felt

17:28Unknown like the pastor knew what was going on in my life and was preaching to that the Holy Spirit was incredible that day in that little church in Vail.

17:40Dr Hal Habecker So then you come back to Dallas and you're trying to share these eternal truths with Steve,

17:47Unknown yes, and so we had great discussions. We talked about family, friendship, prayer and related to prayer. Each time I was with Steve in the hospital, held his hand, prayed, ended by telling one another, we love each other.

18:09Dr Hal Habecker It's such a powerful thing to go through life together, sharing that verbally and even physically.

18:17Unknown Thinking on it, I'm realizing that walking this path with Steve has been living life at a deep, deep level, and for me, it's been very valuable. I'm really sorry that my dear friend suffered so much, but it's been an honor to be able to live life with him at that deep level. We talked about Scripture. Some of the ones we mentioned, we talked about biblical accuracy, because Steve was a very logical guy, and I wanted to talk through the fact that these stories of Christ were not fables. They really happened. Yes, they did.

18:57Unknown There were contemporaneous witnesses who recorded these things. So I felt like that was a real key step for Steve.

19:09Dr Hal Habecker You talk here about journaling in some way, and how Steve would share this with his kids, his grown daughters talk about that. I mean, you were very helpful in mediating a lot of those conversations, helping him to think clearly, networking with his daughters, and you build a track record of communication and faithfulness in your family through the toughest things you'll ever go through in life,

19:41Unknown yes, and, you know, we really developed daughters and I developed a deep relationship through this process of discussing the facts of what was going on. Discussing, you know, where their father was spiritually, discussing, you know, where, where this. Might go, you know, I encouraged Steve to journal and to leave a record for the family. Frankly, not sure exactly how much he did with that. Time will tell as they're able to go through all of the records, but he did a lot of texting that will be record lots of wonderful phone calls with both of his daughters, face times with his two granddaughters, and then turnipidly, his grandson, who was named after him, was born about two weeks before Steve

20:37Unknown died. Really, he could not talk, but he could mouth the words that it was such an honor for his grandson to be named after him.

20:47Dr Hal Habecker Wow, what an honor. I'm sure this is a bit hard for you to even go back. I don't have any Kleenexes here for you, Jim, but I feel your emotion. I want to get a little bit what about the last two weeks of his life. And I know there were some decisions, some conversations that y'all needed to have. Talk about those and what those decisions were.

21:15Unknown December 20, I was in Colorado with Sandy, got a phone call from Danielle, daughter, who lived in Denver. Danielle said dad had contacted her the day before, and he felt as though he was dying, and she jumped on a plane and came there, and so we talked about that and that process and that there sometimes comes a point where loved ones need permission to die. I didn't know if this was the time or not, and so ultimately, over the next two weeks, she continued to gather medical information. When I came back, I teamed up a bit with her, but she was the primary one. She would spend 1314, hours a day at the hospital. It was amazing. And then the daughter from LA was involved as much as she could be. And then

22:10Unknown ultimately did come, even though she just recently had the baby, they were wonderful. And so those last weeks were tough. They removed Steve's stomach, which meant that he would never be able to eat again, to be on a feeding tube the rest of his life. You know, he had a port in his neck with a bag. They did a tracheotomy and just continued on. It was very tough when I had a couple of friends who were doctors that were kind of coaching me along the way, letting me know that, you know, it was sounding as though that was unlikely that he might recover from this, and ultimately, Steve decided that he was ready to die. And so that was hard. The palliative care folks at the hospital were wonderful, helping the daughters

22:57Unknown to work through this process. And then ultimately, we all wanted some assurance of where he was spiritually. And so we had a really important conversation. Daughter Danielle actually recorded it with you. With me, sisters with me. Conversation with me. And again, Steve couldn't talk, but he was able to nod his head, give a thumbs up, wow. And so he he gave assurance that he was at peace and that he knew Christ as his Savior.

23:37Dr Hal Habecker Wow. It's so important. I mean, you sit here and you say, is there any more critical decision in life than than that, and be able to share that with family?

23:49Unknown Yes, the salient decision. Additionally, I continue to ask him through this process, what he needed. What could I do? What's his biggest concern? And towards the end, aside from his faith, his biggest concern was how all the things that he had acquired in his life were going to be disposed of. And so I was able to assure, assure him of the steps that I would take. And then there's another key friend who would help? He had some cars and motorcycles and various things, and that seemed to assuage his concerns.

24:27Dr Hal Habecker Hell, I think that's also an important thing we talk in finishing well about the six essential anticipating the end of your life, and part of that is making sure those details are all covered. And you know, God allowed that to happen even right at the very end. That's amazing. So talk to me about releasing a friend to go to eternity. You and I had a quick conversation about that.

24:54Dr Hal Habecker But there comes a time when it's time to say goodbye. Die and you finish your life

25:03Unknown there is and that's hard. And in this was a two week process, and it became apparent that Steve really was ready to go, and he was in really poor condition and could barely breathe, and his daughters were there. His brother was there, so had the opportunity to say goodbye, it's a hard deal, it's okay. And he said goodbye as much as he could, and we loved each other, and we'd see each other again.

25:44Unknown And then they stopped life support four o'clock that afternoon, Monday, week ago, and his wonderful son in law stayed there with him, holding his hand, praying, playing hymns,

26:05until he died at 3 32am, little less than 12 hours later,

26:15Dr Hal Habecker There's something sacred that happens during those moments, a transition, I often talk about the birth canal between this life and eternity, and just as a child comes through the mother's birth canal with some, maybe a lot of pain, into this world for both that little person and his or her mother, I think there's similarities in transitioning from this life into a whole new world that we could never imagine, and it's challenging, but it's good and it's holy. I think agree and you participated in that. What a gift. And I go back to your childhood, whoever knew that this would happen, but you're you know God prepares you, and you've had this past year walking through this experience with Steve in a very

27:16Dr Hal Habecker sacred way,

27:18Unknown one of the ways God prepared me to walk this pathway. Hal was with dear friends like you who were able to come alongside me and coach me on a thing or two to consider doing we prayed. You know, we're involved in a church life group together with our wives and other couples, and every two weeks, there was prayer for Steve and prayer for me to help support me that I might know what to do along the way. And that was very helpful, really critical, to have support from other believers through a process like this.

27:56Dr Hal Habecker Life is not random. It is sacred. You know our lives are sacred, our marriages, our kids, our friendships, and God works through all of those in a very special way. And I think it's important to live life that way every day, because you don't know what you and I don't know what will happen in our lives a year from now. But you know you had this experience with Steve, but it didn't stop there. Let me I want to go on. You were involved in his memorial service and working with his kids and his son in law. You know, surfaced, you know, to help lead. Just talk about that for a minute.

28:34Unknown Well, Steve had great sons in law, and he was thankful for them both. One in particular has some experience with preaching. Actually, his training was professional, to be a professional actor, as his daughter Lauren in California as well. So Steve didn't have a regular pastor, and I had wondered for months what his funeral, when it comes was going to look like. And so it came together really well, and it was a powerful service. And his son in law, Chris led the service.

29:17Unknown In many ways, his son in law, Logan spoke as well. They were great. Danielle and Lauren both did a wonderful job of speaking about their father, and they had asked me to do a eulogy, and it was an honor, and it was also a wonderful way for me to be able to process and kick start the process of grieving. So what an honor to be able to stand up in front of friends and family and talk about your dear friend and what he meant to you, and in and assure friends and family what I had seen. And heard from Steve in terms of his faith. And there were some who said that, in a way, hearing this, you know, from a layman, a non pastor, had some had, maybe some, some great value to them. So our hope was that this would be an

30:22Unknown evangelical message as well. Then the Friday morning, before the service, on Sunday, I was asked to do the graveside service. Now I've done some eulogies. Was fairly comfortable with that, but had never done a graveside service. So on my way to the office that morning, I was so thankful how, when you picked up the phone call, and I said, Hal, need some help here.

30:43Unknown And so we worked together on that. And so that was quite an honor as well.

30:53Dr Hal Habecker Well, what an honor. I think of this as a pastor. It's an honor to close life and you commit that body to the earth, knowing the great resurrection is just around the corner somewhere. And not only the resurrection, but Steve is there already celebrating eternity in the presence of God and His Son, our Savior and the world yet to come. I mean, it's, it's a mind bot. It's, it's hard, in one sense, to say goodbye, to lower the casket into the ground and ashes to ashes, dust to death. You know, our life returns to the author, our spirit returns to God who made it. And there's something tragic about that, but yet it's like Paul said, we don't grieve without any hope. Our hope is in Christ, and that's the joy you

31:49Dr Hal Habecker have of officiating that I value that for you, it

31:55Unknown was an extraordinary experience. And to be able to stand there at the casket in front of the family and friends, I know there might be 50 people there at the graveside, and as you Hal and I have prepared in advance to be able to just say, imagine Steve is standing in the presence of God, pain free, with an unimaginable joy. Imagine that. And I think folks were imagining that, and then I said, that's where Steve is today, but his body remains here. So over the next few minutes together, we're going to commit Steve's body to the earth.

32:36Dr Hal Habecker Very powerful moments, I can't thank you enough for the impact you had in Steve's life and his family and in so many people throughout this year. Again, as we started earlier, we have no idea what the next 12 months will be like many times and how God goes ahead of us. So let me reflect with you for a minute and try and wrap up our podcast. As you think back across this past year and any lessons pop out to you that you want to share with our audience or in your own life, I thank God that this happened.

33:13Dr Hal Habecker You know, I don't know what it is, a thought or two as you look back over what God did and how it prepares you for you, we have no idea what next in life.

33:29Unknown Well, thank you, Hal, I would just say that it's incumbent on us all to be alert to those defining moments where we may be called at some level to help a person, friend or family, to walk a pathway that may be existential and we never know, and we may be in The first circle of friends where we're the key person other than family, like I was honored be with Steve, or we may be sort of a secondary or tertiary level of friends, and understand that, and to talk with family and try to understand from family What level of involvement family would would like a person to have.

34:25Dr Hal Habecker And as we all enter what Ji Packer would call maybe the last lap of our lives, if it's four laps, you know, we see the finish line across. I mean, I'm a former track runner. You're going around that last lap, and if you're opposite up, you can look over and see the finish line. I mean, we need to be aware and alert to the life God has given to us, and we want to live it as well as we can for him.

34:54Unknown Agree, 100% Hal, you know, when a serious diagnosis comes. So we want our affairs to be in order, just the, you know, the basics of life. We want to be as healthy as we can so that we're prepared for the fight Yes, and we want to already have a deep set of Christian resources and relationships to walk that path along with us.

35:19Dr Hal Habecker I was talking with somebody just this week, and we use the phrase, we don't want to make a junkyard out of the last of our lives. We want to live well through the finish line. Jim, I value you as a friend. I value the experience you've walked through this last year, and I thank God for you and a zillion ways for your family and what God continues to do through your life. Thank you.

35:49Unknown Thank you. Hal I feel the same about you, and it's an honor to be able to be here and share my experience.

35:55Dr Hal Habecker I do want to close in prayer, and I want to pray for people out there. You never know where people are as they listen to something and what will track what's God's doing in their lives and who their network is. But I want to thank God for you and pray for our network, father. I thank you for these holy moments that we've shared on this podcast. I thank you for the holiness of living life in its most sacred ways, perhaps through the very end that Jim had with Steve. And I pray that as people listen to this, they would be encouraged and strengthened and have insights. Knowing that you could use any one of us out there in similar ways, and you do want to use us. These last years are opportunities to serve you as

36:39Dr Hal Habecker never before, and we don't know what you'll put in front of us, but we know you're with us, and you will help us, and you will strengthen us, just as you did Jim this past year. So bless Jim and bless our ministry. Help us to focus on encouraging other people to continue to finish life well and to live it well through the very end. Thanks for the life you've given us to give back to you. We bless you and give you thanks for this day in Jesus name Amen. Amen. So thanks for listening to us. If you have an idea thought for us, write me at Hal at finishing well ministries.org, and we look forward to this year as well.

37:18Dr Hal Habecker God bless you.

37:20Unknown You've been listening to the finishing well podcast, let's keep pursuing Jesus together and encourage each other to follow him in our aging years. Subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts, or you can find us at finishing well ministries.org/podcast, our vision is to change the way we think about our aging Season of Life, equipping you to actively pursue God's calling in your life. May the Lord bless and encourage you, and we'll see you next time on the finishing well podcast. You.