Emily Henry Says Hello

0:00 [SPEAKER_00]: 5, 6, 7, 8, Emily. [SPEAKER_00]: Emily, go more, of course. [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly. [SPEAKER_01]: Im heavily implied. [SPEAKER_01]: Ha ha ha. [SPEAKER_01]: Ha ha. [SPEAKER_02]: Hi everybody, welcome back to Gilmour Disay with Tara and Haley. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Tara, this is Haley. [SPEAKER_02]: Hi Haley.

0:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Hi Tara. [SPEAKER_02]: How you doing? [SPEAKER_00]: I'm worried for Emily Henry, okay. [SPEAKER_02]: So we're here today to talk to Emily Henry which has been such a long time coming and we'll talk about it in a second but despite the fact that this episode is I'm sure like by the time it's edited just shy of if not somewhere in the ballpark of two hours long because we just kept yapping.

0:43 [SPEAKER_02]: with our girl Emily Henry, poor thing, had a tornado warning, shouting at her at the end of our recording. [SPEAKER_02]: So if it seems like we end abruptly, that is why. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was just saying, one of those things was like, oh, I want to wrap this up in a nice way, but like I also want you to show some place.

0:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Please go be safe. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so that's very scary. [SPEAKER_00]: Regardless of that, I wonder if it was the universe being, because it was when we were talking about betrayed casting and we were going to sort of like recast some of the Gilmore girls characters into her adaptations.

1:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if they were like, let's stop talking about this divine intro then. [SPEAKER_00]: They were like, I don't want to talk about retreat casting anymore, but regardless, I think this was such a fun conversation. [SPEAKER_00]: Fantastic. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you guys are in for a treat.

1:29 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, here's the thing is that I had no frame of reference of who she is as a person. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah I haven't watched her interviews or anything like that. [SPEAKER_02]: I kind of did an intentionally knowing we were gonna do this podcast Sometimes I like to get a feel for someone's personality sometimes I like to just kind of like go in blind And this was one of those times because I was like I was really like going to relinquish a lot to you knowing that This is an author that you have followed and loved and admired for a very long time [SPEAKER_02]: If you're with us on YouTube, you can see the wall of both Bailey's created.

2:00 [SPEAKER_02]: She's barricading herself into her bedroom that we had for you. [SPEAKER_00]: I will say, when Emily got on by getting her pre-interview, I was like, is it giving stalker or passion? [SPEAKER_00]: And she said passion it because I love it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, well, thank God. [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, thank God.

2:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Because otherwise, she would have been like, you know what? [SPEAKER_00]: There is a tornado happening right now. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right now. [SPEAKER_02]: She's so big in the noise. [SPEAKER_00]: No, but it's just because I feel like if y'all have been listening to the podcast for like any significant period of time, you have heard me talking about Emily Henry.

2:31 [SPEAKER_00]: If you follow me on socials anywhere, you know how much I love her and how much her books mean to me and like got me back into reading, but also just... [SPEAKER_00]: like redeveloped my love of romance especially and just I adore her books down bad and we've been trying to talk to her for quite some time since the book club started back in 2023 we've been in like talks with her team and it's never really worked out this year it was supposed to happen a couple of times this was the interview that we were like a couple of weeks ago being like [SPEAKER_02]: A very, very important, very exciting woman.

3:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Because I feel like if you didn't come by Emily Henry through me, that like she probably means a lot to you if you've read her work, or if you discovered her through the podcast, I feel like you fall in love with her. [SPEAKER_00]: So many of y'all have reached out to say that, like you discovered Emily Henry through the podcast through us through me.

3:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that this is going to be very exciting for all of us. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And if you don't know Emily Henry, and you never looked further and you covered your ears when we talked about her on the podcast, she is a number one New York Times best selling author of basically every book she's written, Beatree, people who meet on vacation, book lovers, happy plays, funny story, great, big, beautiful life, and a forthcoming seventh novel that we talk about a little bit because she hasn't said anything, but also with adaptations in the works.

3:54 [SPEAKER_00]: For all of them, people made a vacation, premiered on Netflix earlier this year, Beatrice is filming now, which she has a lot to say about all of those things, but if you are a romance reader, you probably know of her, or have read some of her books, because she really is the queen of romance.

4:08 [SPEAKER_02]: She really is, oh my god, and also just like such a wonderful human, not that I expected anything different, but she's so easy to talk to. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, instantly felt just like locked in with her. [SPEAKER_02]: Like it just a girl, like we just have just a girl, one of the girls literally and it brought me so much joy because I immediately felt comfortable around her and I loved it because as I mentioned before, I was very much willing and able to and prepared to relinquish most of the conversation over to you, not realizing I would have a lot to say and talk to her about it.

4:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's what I really love about having you here for this conversation. [SPEAKER_00]: because most actually all of our booklobe conversations with authors have been with me and it's always books that I love, always authors that I love. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think with Emily, you were talking about that you hadn't seen interviews with her and you read a couple of her books and you knew a lot about her through me.

5:03 [SPEAKER_00]: But I've like watched, I've listened to like every podcast she's been on, like author talks, I've read all of her books multiple times, read articles about her online, which like it sounds stalkery, but it's just really because I love her, I love her work. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just a big fan what you guys know what it's like to be a big fan of something if you're here If you're here if you're here or we are and I didn't mention this to her But I've made so many friends through loving her books because I have people in my life who like they knew that I was I Reach out to them because I was like you guys.

5:30 [SPEAKER_00]: It's Emily Henry day and they like all text and we like you're gonna like Your shrine is great like you're gonna be fine and it's just because I made such great friends through her books Just through this like mutual love in the same way that we became friends because we loved Gilmore girls.

5:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah [SPEAKER_00]: and so I just felt so balanced that like you were like I have this love of writing and rom-coms and all of these interests that we talked about yeah and I have the background of knowing too much and like so much about her knowing so much it's a really good balance there you know yeah when he was a lot of knowledge someone who has a limited amount of knowledge but also a lot of her both of us like a lot of respect for what she does and for me it was especially [SPEAKER_02]: special to be able to tell her about the rom-com I'm writing as I'm writing it and to hear about her experiences and the way she writes and her insight, it was just all, you guys will hear it.

6:23 [SPEAKER_02]: I know. [SPEAKER_02]: I want to bear the lead. [SPEAKER_00]: I know I think that's the thing is like it's it was just so much fun and you know that this has been like something that like I've been anticipating for some time and like I thought I was going to feel nervous today and I was only excited.

6:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And like, like you said, like she's just like so cool and fun to talk to, but it literally just felt like we were just zoom in, just hang it out, like, just zoom in with the girls hang out with the girls with all hang out. [SPEAKER_02]: She's such a darling. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think you guys will really enjoy this conversation.

6:52 [SPEAKER_02]: If you're [SPEAKER_02]: a reader, a writer, a Gilmore Girls fan. [SPEAKER_02]: I think there's something in here, a rom-com fan. [SPEAKER_02]: There's something in here for everybody. [SPEAKER_02]: I love her perspective on writing rom-coms. [SPEAKER_02]: I love her perspective of the about her adaptations and taking it from book to screen and what that process is like and all of her feelings about Gilmore Girls.

7:14 [SPEAKER_02]: It was a lot of fun. [SPEAKER_00]: I love to set them to the day like all of her work is here but here we are just gapping about Mr. Dave or Gowski, you know, that's really where all roads lead to when you're talking about romance. [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm just so excited for y'all to hear this, there's she dropped some news in the middle of it that she hasn't talked about before or some aspirations that she has that she hasn't mentioned before.

7:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So we've got some exclusive details here, so without further ado. [SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk to Emily Henry. [SPEAKER_02]: Emily Henry, welcome to Gilmourdesay. [SPEAKER_02]: We're so happy you're here. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so happy to be here finally. [SPEAKER_01]: I know this has been years in the making.

7:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I know we've been trying to make this happen and here we finally are. [SPEAKER_02]: I have to tell you how I manifested you for our podcast. [SPEAKER_02]: because I manifested two very big things this year. [SPEAKER_02]: You were one of them. [SPEAKER_02]: And we are also interviewing Kelly Bishop in a couple of weeks, which is huge.

8:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh, we're very excited. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's wow, fitting. [SPEAKER_01]: Very, very, for what we did for our little, exactly for the Emily's of all, yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: But earlier this year, I said, I have a feeling, I said this daily, I was like, we could absolutely get Emily Henry on the podcast this year.

8:19 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel it in my bones, and she was like, I don't know there's so much going on and a week later, [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god. [SPEAKER_02]: He made it happen. [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, oh. [SPEAKER_02]: And the same thing happened with Kelly Bishop. [SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, okay, I gotta start saying more stuff.

8:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, seriously. [SPEAKER_00]: That's how we manifest is she says something and I have to say, no, it's not gonna happen. [SPEAKER_01]: The universe just loves to prove you wrong. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, that's a good thing in this case. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so now when she was manifesting, I was like, oh yeah, but oh no, no, no, actually me, no.

8:45 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not gonna happen. [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no one's saying things and she's like, yeah, and I'm like, stop it. [SPEAKER_02]: Top of the room. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: it's nice when you can kind of figure out the cheat code of being alive and something you have.

8:57 [SPEAKER_00]: We have after five years of doing this we definitely have. [SPEAKER_00]: But speaking of that, if any of our listeners don't know who you are, they probably have not listened to the podcast ever before, because we bring you up at least once a month. [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like we need to get like the fan girling out of the way because we're such em-han girlies.

9:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that we've been we had like a whole [SPEAKER_00]: the Emily Henry men early on because everyone knew that that was like my favorite thing. [SPEAKER_00]: I love to recommend your books and I finally harassed Tara into reading your books because she's not much a reader but I was like you will love these especially because she's a big nor afron fan and so I kind of sold her through that lens and once she read them I feel like she can't read another book after having read book lovers because she loved it so much.

9:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Seriously, I book lovers. [SPEAKER_02]: It was the second one that I read and I was like, well, it's over. [SPEAKER_01]: Wait, let me ask you this Tara because we are sitting here on Zoom. [SPEAKER_01]: Are you tall? [SPEAKER_01]: You have the aura of a tall woman? [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh, thank you for asking.

9:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Haley said the same thing before we met. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for three. [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that is incredible. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think I'm tall? [SPEAKER_02]: I just have a feeling you're tall because of the women that you write, because normally they're tall, how tall are you?

10:08 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm 57. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I see 56 because for years I was 56 and suddenly I was like, it seems like I'm 57. [SPEAKER_01]: We're talking a little bit taller now. [SPEAKER_00]: You have a little bit, and you're trying to grow. [SPEAKER_01]: You guys stopped walking as much, and so my spine extended a bit.

10:24 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, that's so interesting. [SPEAKER_01]: That is a fun thing about making friends online, because I do feel like I'm wrong almost every single time. [SPEAKER_01]: About a person's height, and then you go meet them in real life, and you're like, I have to recalibrate. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

10:35 [SPEAKER_01]: But I just asked that because I know obviously you're a New Yorker and you're working on bride Broadway and like it makes so much sense that you would connect with Nora and then also your blonde and so I thought maybe she's tall too. [SPEAKER_01]: But you do also have the ore of a tall woman.

10:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks a lot. [SPEAKER_01]: I love her too. [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks. [SPEAKER_00]: She seemed tall. [SPEAKER_00]: And then when I met you and she was my height, I was like, we were like, hello, I know. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm standing in a soap box. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: No wonder it was so up.

10:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't think we'd have to make eye contact. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: I was literally thought I was going to be looking up at you and you thought you were going to be looking up at me. [SPEAKER_02]: And here we are. [SPEAKER_02]: I know. [SPEAKER_00]: Same eye. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

11:07 [SPEAKER_02]: But I just adored book lovers. [SPEAKER_02]: In the middle of great big beautiful life and also loving that. [SPEAKER_02]: Also, I love that they talk about height when Alice is like, oh, because she's five seven, right? [SPEAKER_02]: I think five seven knees are just like heading against his knees.

11:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know what to do about that. [SPEAKER_01]: And do you date short women? [SPEAKER_01]: Is that a rule? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I guess so. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, and not even related to the dating piece of things, but I also do think every single time I'm on an airplane, I'm like, how do I actually tall people do this?

11:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: Because being five-seven, and this is excruciating, and I mean, a lot of the human population is significantly taller than me. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't really understand how this was developed to be this size and shape. [SPEAKER_00]: My brother, six, five, and we just flew to Mexico, and he got the aisle.

11:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I always liked the aisle, and I was kind of complaining. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I don't want to sit in the window. [SPEAKER_00]: Is that you, Lee? [SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking over a foot taller than you. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if he had been in the window, he would have had to still sit diagonally, so that his legs were in your spot, and then you would have, you know, they would just go like, would have passed a lot.

12:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: but I feel like so many of people use your books as like a gateway to get back into reading. [SPEAKER_00]: That was definitely how I was. [SPEAKER_00]: It was like probably like five or six years ago now. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like depressed and thought that I only wanted to read like literary fiction and saw your book on TikTok and randomly went to my local bookstore.

12:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Saw it there and I was like, what do I have to lose? [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna read this yellow book. [SPEAKER_00]: And I read it like three times that week because I'm all what is this. [SPEAKER_00]: What? [SPEAKER_00]: How I just consumed and it was like, I think it was like almost like five years ago today.

12:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. [SPEAKER_00]: Happened because it just changed so much. [SPEAKER_00]: I guess just like in terms of what I felt like I could like out loud, we realized that like this book is about love and it's about people who want love. [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like that's what you do so well is you normalize romance, normalize love.

12:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like that has changed so much in my life of like how I approach the podcast, how I approach writing in my own works, and why I suddenly after not reading romance, since I was a teenager, was suddenly like reading a hundred books a year, all romance, simply because of my gateway drug of beetroot.

13:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh, I mean, that's the ultimate compliment. [SPEAKER_01]: I absolutely love, I mean, like you said, it's like when people say it got them back into reading or when they say it's like how they found out they loved reading romance, both of those are huge compliments to me and obviously like I relate so much to what you're saying.

13:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I studied English and college and was like, you know, inundated with like the classics and like just also really like that stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: but very little of it applies to my personal life in my world view and finding romance, again, at a time also when I was very depressed was so healing and helpful and like, I don't know, I feel like, I hope that it's different for younger generations.

13:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like it at least was for a moment. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it still is, but I really feel like growing up in the 2000s, like, [SPEAKER_01]: everything that was branded as like traditionally feminine or stereotypically feminine was also seen as so silly and superfluous and uncereous and unnecessary and just sort of like day-class A and like you know I grew up also only with older brothers so I really like bought into that for so long and I think I wanted so desperately to be seen as smart.

14:24 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like full of interesting that I didn't even let myself explore so many things that now I like passionately love. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I had Sarah Dustin on the podcast earlier this year, which felt like a huge full circle moment, because that was like the romance that I was reading at the time.

14:37 [SPEAKER_00]: And I like regret this so deeply, but when I went to college, I was like, I'm serious now. [SPEAKER_00]: So I got rid of all my Sarah Dustin books that I had like annotated, and I like donated them. [SPEAKER_00]: And now that like when I like rediscovered my love of romance years later, I was like, I cannot believe I wanted to be serious.

14:53 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the most unserious thing that's ever happened. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it really is like what and also it's just funny because it's like in real life not everyone but like so most people I think like a vast majority of people really value Romantic love and it's almost like a top priority in their lives and somehow we don't want to see that reflected as like that valuable in art which I think is weird but yeah [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I totally agree.

15:18 [SPEAKER_02]: And I also think that being not like other girls definitely plagues women at one point or another. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it has especially for women, the millennial women in general. [SPEAKER_02]: We do so want it to be not like other girls. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: That will be.

15:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's so sad too because it's like who are you performing for then? [SPEAKER_01]: You're performing for men. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And what is the point of performing for men? [SPEAKER_01]: It's either like that societally you have decided they, you know, have the power to assign [SPEAKER_01]: And then it's like, okay, so you're performing for men, but like for like in your twisted way, like for love, like in the way, I love, yeah, I don't even love.

15:53 [SPEAKER_01]: So, so like you're still a lot like most other girls. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, not only, but now it's like fun, because we can be like other girls in the real way, which is where reading romance, loving to the left, watching girls over and over again. [SPEAKER_00]: And not of course that's the best part about it.

16:08 [SPEAKER_01]: It's beautiful. [SPEAKER_00]: So this year has been a little bit different for you in terms of releases. [SPEAKER_00]: You've been releasing a book a year since 2020, but this year you might have had a break from releasing a new novel, but you've had so much to celebrate. [SPEAKER_00]: The premiere of People We Made on Vacation, The Movie, The Star of Beatread Filming, your essay and The Best Dog in the World, The Paperback Release of Great Big Beautiful Life, and today when this airs the Deluxe Edition of Booklovers is not available.

16:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, which I'm running out for. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yes. [SPEAKER_02]: We're taking out as soon as he's gorgeous. [SPEAKER_01]: I think we can make that. [SPEAKER_01]: I think we could get you one, Tara. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I mean, I might know a guy. [SPEAKER_01]: We might only make that happen.

16:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you might have a connection. [SPEAKER_01]: I sure though. [SPEAKER_00]: I will say I pre-ordered from Joseph Bess. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, amazing. [SPEAKER_00]: So will I be signing your copy then? [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, have you not signed them yet? [SPEAKER_00]: Not yet. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

16:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I was going to borrow some hours a day. [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. [SPEAKER_00]: I'll keep an eye out. [SPEAKER_00]: Amazing. [SPEAKER_00]: I was actually in Mexico and this website didn't work in Mexico. [SPEAKER_00]: So I texted my mom and I was like, you have to do this. [SPEAKER_00]: Because I've only ever missed one, just like, gosh, pre-order and the rest of them I all have.

17:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Because that's the point. [SPEAKER_00]: We which one did you miss? [SPEAKER_00]: Because, well, again, I'm like, we soon. [SPEAKER_00]: I might. [SPEAKER_00]: What is it? [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: It's the people we meet on vacation deluxe edition. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: All right.

17:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Good to know. [SPEAKER_00]: If you know a guy. [SPEAKER_01]: I know a guy. [SPEAKER_01]: The only problem is I'm so disorganized. [SPEAKER_01]: I know a guy. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to try to talk to that guy. [SPEAKER_01]: I am so disorganized. [SPEAKER_01]: Don't hold it against me. [SPEAKER_01]: It will be personal.

17:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I will. [SPEAKER_00]: I will. [SPEAKER_01]: The guy might fail you. [SPEAKER_01]: But it will not be personal. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: Emily. [SPEAKER_00]: If you fail. [SPEAKER_00]: that's totally fine. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we'll fix it at some point. [SPEAKER_00]: I know it will.

17:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Amazing. [SPEAKER_00]: That's incredible. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's so, so vast in everything that has happened this year. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like at each stage it's kind of something that like an author could only dream about is each version of things to celebrate this year. [SPEAKER_00]: What has been a highlight of it for you?

17:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, the movie premiere, which is funny because that was like six days into January or something, that was really, really huge and it's so interesting because like you said it's like so many of these milestones or things that you dream about as a writer and you very quickly learn like are pretty unrealistic and like you know I had this whole other career writing young adult novels before this and so I like luckily I think have pretty realistic expectations except for they've been a little bit ruined by like [SPEAKER_01]: Last few years, my reader should be so supportive, but it's interesting because when the adaptations start unfolding there is always a lot of like conversation around like this must be like this is every writer's dream and you know like how how does this feel it must be so surreal that and it is surreal but also it's interesting because it's like it.

18:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Isn't it like our dream actually like it's like my dream was to write the book and I wrote the book and I didn't like make the movie like I You know, I was I was a part of the process and I like you know did what I could but it's not like my thing in the same way that the book is but [SPEAKER_01]: that premiere was so fun and like I think what makes that a highlight is that I think so many of the readers were so thrilled with the end result.

19:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Like obviously not everyone is in no one that was never going to be the case. [SPEAKER_01]: But I think the fact that like so many of the like actual fans of the novel love the movie so much was like just a huge victory for me. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And made me so happy and you know it's like I feel like that's [SPEAKER_01]: even rarer than like getting an adaptation is the getting an adaptation that like the readers are excited about so that was really really really special You also looked amazing at the fair.

19:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I will say that's another highlight of the year is like Netflix was like, yeah, we'll pay for like professional hair and make up and like a style of your life. [SPEAKER_02]: It's a toss toss [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: That was a highlight.

19:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I was getting texts from friends who, like, multiple friends have told me that, like, one of their friends reached out to be like, is Emily like getting plastic surgery now? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, why she's looking so good lately. [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, no, you guys, here's the secret.

20:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Professional glam. [SPEAKER_01]: Having them right there with you when you're being photographed in every three pictures. [SPEAKER_01]: They're running in and fixing your face and your hair. [SPEAKER_01]: And I did not understand the power that, like, celebrities are living with. [SPEAKER_01]: I thought they just naturally looked like that all the time.

20:16 [SPEAKER_01]: you know, they are operating at a higher level than most of us, but also like the support and the work that goes into that like the pride that like glam professionals take in their work that they really will be like, I don't care that there's a camera right there. [SPEAKER_01]: You need to stop.

20:29 [SPEAKER_01]: So I can get in there and move this one here. [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's like they they're true artists and that has been a highlight for me is getting to like have someone else dressed me and and do my hair and like, you know, be a Barbie doll for a minute. [SPEAKER_02]: So fun. [SPEAKER_02]: That's such a real experience.

20:45 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so different. [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm curious, you know, as you kind of spoke to earlier, that must be such a unique experience to relinquish any amount of control over the story that you've already written to somebody else. [SPEAKER_02]: What was that experience like? [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was absolutely brutal.

21:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, like it's funny because, you know, it's weird. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I feel like writers in general, like want to be, like we know we should be grateful on some level, but also I do think sometimes there's this era of like you should be so grateful. [SPEAKER_01]: And the truth is that like Hollywood is desperate for what they call IP intellectual property right now.

21:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Like they do not want to make something original. [SPEAKER_01]: They want something with a built-in audience. [SPEAKER_01]: And they want to take that audience and balloon it and whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: And so there is this air sometimes and like this is not just me and it's like I will say essentially every single author I'm friends with who's had an adaptation has had the experience of feeling like you're kind of being told like that you should be so grateful but then like gradually you realize like we I actually don't need a movie like I [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if there's a movie like you actually should be so grateful to me for bringing you my audience and like and I'm happy to bring my audience But it is hard and scary because it's like you don't have control and like my only goal in being involved in whatever capacity They let me be involved with which I should say is quite minimal and that's again pretty normal authors like even at my level Like you you it's there's very little that you can actually negotiate for especially if you're a woman

22:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I was told that was impossible but it's really hard and brutal because you go into it with these high expectations and you think like I'm going to protect this and I'm going to make sure the readers are happy and blah blah blah blah blah and like it is just sort of compromise after compromise and I would recommend that there's this Jennifer Weiner book called The Next Best Thing that I read years ago that's it's a novel but it's inspired by her experience of this adaptation that I don't think I've ever ended up making it to air.

22:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Am I to make sure I think they made [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but I think it's a really good example of like how it feels where it's like you start out where you're like if we can just protect this one these these five things and then you're like, okay, so I'm losing my grip on this thing because it's over years and it's like to keep the ball rolling you have to be so flexible and and like, you know, and you don't have much say and and you to choose your battles because if you if you [SPEAKER_01]: pushed back too often, then they're not going to listen to you at all.

23:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And so to be really have to kind of protect the things that you think matter the very most. [SPEAKER_01]: And by the end of the adaptation, I very much was just like as long as Alex and Poppy still feel like Alex and Poppy. [SPEAKER_01]: That is like what matters most to me. [SPEAKER_01]: And I was really thrilled with how thoroughly they did.

23:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And like again, I want it to be said, while I'm saying it's a brutal process emotionally as a writer to like relinquish that control, I also want it to be very clear. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so proud of that movie. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so proud of everyone who worked on it. [SPEAKER_01]: I think they [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think they they really made something super, super special and I think it was just so many talented people putting in a lot of very hard work, but but all that to say it is quote unquote the dream and also like I genuinely have not spoken to a single author who wasn't like, yeah, it was a nightmare I cried every day for you know, hard to be like to not have control, but also to know that like your readers are still counting on you.

23:58 [SPEAKER_01]: They're not counting on any of these other people to get things done the way that they want them. [SPEAKER_01]: They're counting on you to be their voice. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they're looking to you and it's so interesting that, like, I mean, you're speaking to it now that there are just so many cooks in the kitchen that they don't even really know about while all this is in the family and you're like, many.

24:16 [SPEAKER_02]: I swear I know if I best. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I literally don't even know about all of them. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think there's also this idea. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, again, like, I'm sure there are authors who've managed to do this, but, and I do hear stories about authors managing to do this.

24:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I have not yet managed to truly be like in the room in the way. [SPEAKER_01]: And I honestly at this point, like, do I want to be like, would this just make me look like slowly unwrapped? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, quickly unwravel. [SPEAKER_01]: But like, I haven't truly managed to be in the room.

24:42 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, there's so many people involved. [SPEAKER_01]: There are so many execs of the studio. [SPEAKER_01]: There are so many producers at the production company. [SPEAKER_01]: There's the director. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's just so many. [SPEAKER_01]: And then there's like all the higher-ups who also have opinions.

24:53 [SPEAKER_01]: So even when, [SPEAKER_01]: the execs and the producers are in alignment. [SPEAKER_01]: They still have to go to all of their bosses to get like a yes you're allowed to talk to that person and see if like they're available or whatever and yeah it's like I don't even know everyone who's involved in the decision-making process.

25:07 [SPEAKER_02]: It was really cool though that you know despite all of that you were also able to physically be there and it's funny because I so I watched it and [SPEAKER_02]: And I was so thrown during the wedding scene solely because I mentioned to you before we started recording a work on Broadway, and one of the shows I've been working on is Titanine, so Lane Williams and he's so fabulous.

25:28 [SPEAKER_01]: He loves you so much. [SPEAKER_01]: He sends his love. [SPEAKER_02]: He was like, when I told him that I was doing this interview with you, he was like, oh. [SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted to get up there for Titanic and then my schedule was Kuku, but he and like there are so many people like that in the movie too, who are so good and they had other, you know, they had footage where it's like laying was like a, you know, obviously he's like a scenes dealer.

25:48 [SPEAKER_01]: He's a star. [SPEAKER_01]: And he had some really good moments that like, you know, the movie just couldn't be as long could it be two hours and 45 minutes long, but I'm like, what a while. [SPEAKER_01]: I absolutely love him. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, he feels the same way about you. [SPEAKER_02]: I can assure you, but he talked about how wonderful that experience was having you on set because he said it took him a second to like understand who you were totally.

26:10 [SPEAKER_02]: He was like, I'm looking towards this one woman and I was like, I'm going to share that I was like, oh my God. [SPEAKER_02]: And [SPEAKER_02]: I was telling Haley about it because Haley's favorite film is Titanic. [SPEAKER_02]: So she's been hearing about my experience working on the show and also was just absolutely flabbergasted that a person was playing the ice cream.

26:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I was like, Haley, the iceberg is at the wedding in people we meet on vacation. [SPEAKER_02]: Fish Yandy is appreciating the wedding, the iceberg is appreciating the wedding. [SPEAKER_02]: She was like, did you see Emily in there and I was like, I was totally distracted.

26:40 [SPEAKER_02]: No idea. [SPEAKER_01]: I love that you were able to be a part of that to be on set. [SPEAKER_01]: Was that your only time on set or were you there for a lot of the process? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it was so it, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So basically, and I also want to say like just hopping back to the brutal element.

26:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I was talking to some friends recently where they were like, Well, you explained more about like what's hard about being on set. [SPEAKER_01]: And there was like, yes, it was such a like up and like it was such a beautiful and incredible experience. [SPEAKER_01]: And also like really jarring.

27:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And one example of that is showing up and realizing no one knows who you are. [SPEAKER_01]: like I like got to and we were in Spain and like I got basically dropped off at the nude beach where they were filming the first scene that I was there for okay and there was like you know it was kind of cordoned off and I approached a crew member and she was like had no idea as coming to who I was and I was trying to like explain why I was allowed to go back there and I was like this is so fucking humbling yes see like like everyone here [SPEAKER_01]: It's working on this thing that like and then they'll tell you like oh well here because if you and I'm like, yeah But also nobody knows you a family Deep and humiliating to just kind of wander around trying to figure out where I'm supposed to be.

27:43 [SPEAKER_01]: What about love the entire cast and like ended up having an amazing experience I was there for I think about a week in Spain and I had so much fun and I just like loved at you know Everyone so much and I loved getting to see everything and then I knew that they were shooting Alan Ruck and Molly Shannon scenes a couple weeks later Yeah [SPEAKER_01]: in New Orleans.

28:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I was like, I think I might come back. [SPEAKER_01]: Is that okay? [SPEAKER_01]: Like to to bread the director. [SPEAKER_01]: And he was like, yeah, totally. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, of course, you're walking like, you can be here every single day if you want. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you won't want to because that is actually boring.

28:12 [SPEAKER_01]: But like, you can. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I just like kind of scheduled another, like, I didn't like go through the channels or anything. [SPEAKER_01]: It was like he knew I was coming. [SPEAKER_01]: But I didn't really coordinate with anyone else. [SPEAKER_01]: And I just like scheduled to go to New Orleans as well.

28:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I went and that's like, [SPEAKER_02]: like, why? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it was honestly so fun and like the head of hair and the head of makeup and the head of costume. [SPEAKER_01]: Like I just loved all of these people who worked on this movie so much. [SPEAKER_01]: Like they were, and it was like just such a good vibe.

28:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Like the stat was really, really fun and I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody was just so kind and they were saying, like it's not always like this, like everybody's really getting along everyone's really having fun and again, like that summer camp vibe. [SPEAKER_01]: And I also will say like, [SPEAKER_01]: I got to go for a few days just I haven't like posted about this anywhere.

28:56 [SPEAKER_01]: This is breaking news. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, um, I did get to go to set for Beach Read last. [SPEAKER_02]: Was that? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah last month, gosh, summer. [SPEAKER_01]: I know it's flying. [SPEAKER_01]: I can't believe it. [SPEAKER_01]: It's moving so scary. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And like I originally had hoped to just like be on that set the whole time because I love you, Lee, and who's directing it.

29:14 [SPEAKER_01]: She was on the podcast a couple of years ago. [SPEAKER_00]: She's fabulous. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love her. [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to just like watch over her shoulder while she works the whole time, but then my schedule ended up being really bananas, and I had like, of this book. [SPEAKER_01]: I have to write a book, apparently, so I was like really focused on that, but I took a week to go to Toronto to see some of the filming for that too, and and [SPEAKER_01]: it was a really good experience like again the same thing like everybody on set like all like I talked I got to talk to you a lot of the crew members which was interesting I didn't really get to do that as much with people and so many of them are like I don't know like just they were very excited about it a lot some of them like brought their daughters to set so they could like sign books that like meet them

29:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was really, really. [SPEAKER_01]: I got to go see a stage for the first time where they're shooting like, you know, these pictures when the movie comes out, I'll be able to share. [SPEAKER_01]: But like, shooting gusts in January's houses so that they could make sure that the windows can remind us about it.

30:09 [SPEAKER_00]: But, about where they are. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's really important. [SPEAKER_00]: This is like very important to me. [SPEAKER_00]: I was a left house truth or for the longest time. [SPEAKER_00]: Left too. [SPEAKER_00]: That goss lives to the right of January. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: But the way that you set it up, he has to live to the right of her.

30:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess it's like, are you facing, I mean, I'm not going to tell you because the movie will clear it up, but are you facing? [SPEAKER_01]: So this is like a, it's great and reveal. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, it's like obviously you're free to believe. [SPEAKER_01]: But whatever you want.

30:37 [SPEAKER_00]: It's when you're looking at their houses. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're looking at January's house. [SPEAKER_00]: I always thought Gus was on the left because he feels like a left house. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I see. [SPEAKER_00]: Like emotion. [SPEAKER_01]: But then when you're actually reading it closely, you realize that when they do, [SPEAKER_00]: Along with me notes, like where his kitchen is, it only works if his house is on that side.

30:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we'll see. [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see. [SPEAKER_01]: We'll find out. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, find out. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I do remember Mealy and asking about that kind of early on. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, please like, coming. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's all you.

31:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Of course. [SPEAKER_01]: If she got it wrong, can you imagine the feud? [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh. [SPEAKER_01]: They'd have to move a whole house. [SPEAKER_01]: They would do it in post. [SPEAKER_02]: You see, Guy, just do a mirror image for the moment.

31:21 [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm so glad that you were able to visit that set because I feel like, as if anybody at home doesn't know this, a lot of your books are being adopted into film. [SPEAKER_02]: That's just going to be a different experience with every single one that you do. [SPEAKER_02]: And I imagine it's going to be a different experience for a funny story, which you were adopting yourself.

31:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yes. [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be a different experience, but also like, I like feel like I need to sit down and do like an explainer for like the average reader to like understand how Hollywood works because I'm like, it is going to, it has been a different experience. [SPEAKER_01]: I wrote the first couple of drafts of funny story.

31:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I am not currently on funny story. [SPEAKER_01]: There is someone else on funny story now. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so, and that's something like, again, it's like, that's not something, [SPEAKER_01]: you know, I still I was still going to be involved. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm still executive producing.

32:03 [SPEAKER_01]: But like I will still champion it. [SPEAKER_01]: But it's like Hollywood is the way it works is not at all related to the way that books work. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, even with with with people, like it's really interesting because you know, obviously like I basically I chose Eulene to write people.

32:18 [SPEAKER_01]: We had a meeting before we had sold in so when we sold it, we said she is who's writing it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah and that's like how it was packaged and then there were like six writers or something after you lean and at one point they brought her back on to try and like because it was just again too many cooks they brought her back on to try and like make it all kind of pull back toward the book a bit and then they had like a couple of writers after that who were like a co-writing team and so then at the end of that process they do an adjudication and they figure out they compare it somebody I don't know whom [SPEAKER_01]: They compare all the drafts, the guild.

32:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, they compare all the drafts and they decide who technically wrote the movie. [SPEAKER_01]: And so like three writers ended up credited on that. [SPEAKER_01]: And it was all the writers who they basically said, you did the most. [SPEAKER_01]: And so it was Eulene, Ames, and Nunzeo, were the other two writers.

33:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's like very common and how things work. [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's interesting because with B3, it was a really, really different experience because we, again, we sold it with Eulene [SPEAKER_01]: And that means she has more control from the jump. [SPEAKER_01]: Even so, a studio still could have said, we wanted a different writer on this at some point.

33:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we, you know, whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: And that would happen frequently. [SPEAKER_01]: In the plotters of the century, they actually let Eileen take it from the start to the finish. [SPEAKER_01]: So that means that this adaptation, I mean, it wouldn't necessarily mean this with any other writer, but with Eileen, that means this adaptation is incredibly faithful.

33:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so we have a single swim on that, like you lean really like she did the notes of the studio asked for, you know, if they wanted scenes that didn't exist in the book, she found ways to make it work, but she, it is an extremely, extremely faithful adaptation and that's partly because the person who signed on to do it from the very beginning, who is also a novelist and who is a huge romance fan, is the only one who touched it and she sent it to me for like, you know, questions and whatever, but you [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I will say that Eulina is such an egoless writer, and I think obviously when you're having a bunch of different people rewrite a script, their goal is to, in some way, make it their own.

34:16 [SPEAKER_01]: They're trying to do the notes and to do them well, but they also are like, I'm a writer. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm an artist, I'm here to do my craft, and also if they get credit, they usually get, like a bonus for the fact that their name actually made it to the end. [SPEAKER_01]: So there's a lot of reasons to do more work on a script.

34:29 [SPEAKER_01]: With Eulina, she could have approached it like, [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, here are all the things I would have done differently in the book and she really or you know like here's how I think I could it could be better whatever she really did not approach it that way she really approached it like here's what people love about the book here's how I can draw that out here's I can how I can give them exactly what they want and even the the readers who.

34:51 [SPEAKER_01]: who didn't love people, which, again, I love people. [SPEAKER_01]: I think they did an amazing job. [SPEAKER_01]: But the readers who didn't, I have seen in some contexts fear that because she, like, quote, unquote, wrote that one, they're like, oh, well, this one's going to be really different from the book.

35:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, no, you like, like, the reason that that movie at all resembles the book was, like, you lean. [SPEAKER_01]: And again, love everyone who worked on an Amos and Nunesio also did an amazing job. [SPEAKER_01]: But as far as, like, a faithful adaptation, they can really expect that from this one.

35:17 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's, like, very, [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I feel like that's so hard to look at a script and be like, these are the three people who are named, but so many people touched this that like sometimes that can get lost even in just like a motion from one scene to like five minutes later, well, I was just going to say it's given me more appreciation like for like [SPEAKER_01]: when I do see like an a tours movie where they've written and directed it like even if it's like wonky and weird or if it I don't know like doesn't feel like whatever.

35:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I have so much more openness and appreciation for it because I think sometimes when we bring in a lot of voices it is sort of like it's sort of like [SPEAKER_01]: using AI in a way where it's like we're hammering out all of the idiosyncrasies and we're like kind of trying to make this like the thing that appeals to the most people by like kind of softening all the edges and just smoothing it out and making it like, you know, this many headed monster in a way and I think when something is just really clearly from someone's brain.

36:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I really appreciate that even if it doesn't like totally work for me, I'm like, [SPEAKER_01]: I would just so much rather see, like, and I feel like I'm in books too. [SPEAKER_01]: I would so much rather see someone take like a really big swing and not quite land it for me, not quite hit it, then to feel like I'm being, like, condescended too.

36:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, people are like, well, they won't, I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I just, I want movies to feel like in books to feel like they have a strong point of view in an origin point and like that they came from someone's vision. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, rather than being kind of cycled through, it just, it almost feels like it's being like over processed.

36:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: Touch it, touching it, just to touch it. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, you know, you feel that even when you're editing a book sometimes where it's like, you're going over it over and over and over and over again until you're like, I can't. [SPEAKER_01]: see that's anymore like is this improving it or is it just changing it?

37:06 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really hard to see that clearly. [SPEAKER_01]: But all that to say like it will every process will be different. [SPEAKER_01]: Funny story will be different because I wrote the first couple of drafts so probably I will be a named writer but I don't know yet like where it's gonna end up and that's same same for for happy place and also it's like I have to decide do I even want to be the person to take something from the beginning to the end because I also like just fucking love writing books.

37:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that was going to be my next question. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, we, Haley was telling me about your appearance on, uh, who is it, Jennifer Haker's podcast. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Talking about how during this time, which has been a bit of a break for you, which is so funny that I say that because when Haley was listening to all of the things that you've done this year, I'm like, if that is a break or the break on.

37:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: I wasn't good at it. [SPEAKER_02]: That's okay. [SPEAKER_02]: Some of us are just not good. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, some of us just just got to keep our hands moving. [SPEAKER_02]: but that you were writing scripts, just for the sake of writing them. [SPEAKER_02]: Is that something you're interested in?

37:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Doing something that's less of an adaptation of the books that you write and straight to screen, like even with this experience that you've talked about with Hollywood, is that something you're looking ahead to? [SPEAKER_01]: For sure. [SPEAKER_01]: I think partly because I think like it would be, I would like to do it at least once.

38:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I would like to, I would like to sell a spec script, something I've written in an original just at least once. [SPEAKER_01]: And I would like to someday, maybe, I mean, I can change my mind about this, [SPEAKER_01]: But I think I think the thing that it appeals to me about an original is that there isn't something to protect as much, like yes, if you write a script that you deeply love, of course, you're going to want to protect it and see it stay the thing that you imagined to the end, but there aren't readers to consider.

38:40 [SPEAKER_01]: So if things change, you're not always thinking about how they're going to feel about it and how they're going to react to it, it can just be how you feel about it. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, do I think this change improves it versus will this make people sad? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so yeah, so I there is definitely something very appealing about that, but that said I do think seeing how the sausage is made has also made me really appreciate publishing because in publishing it really is just like you.

39:07 [SPEAKER_01]: your editor is there giving you notes and pushing you as hard as you will let them push you, but you make the final decision on everything. [SPEAKER_01]: You have the final say, you can't really pass the book along to anyone in that way, but also that means you can take it to the end and make it what you actually visioned it being.

39:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And usually when you sell the book to an editor, like you have a conversation and you make sure that their vision is actually what you want it to be because they're only giving you notes, basically with the end goal of you making the book more [SPEAKER_01]: what it's supposed to be. [SPEAKER_01]: They're not trying to like get you to write a different book.

39:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's not how it works. [SPEAKER_01]: They are there to push you in the direction you're already trying to go in. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, knowing that that like most of your readers have like a much more stronger understanding of the publishing industry and that you kind of have final say on all of your book.

39:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you are the director of the cinematographer, the cast, like the casting director, like everything comes from your mind. [SPEAKER_00]: All of your hallucinations are on the page, which is [SPEAKER_00]: that when you look at something like funny story knowing that like it has been passed on to a new writer, but the guild might decide that you have contributed enough to be a writer on it.

40:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Does that ever make you, maybe this is a bad question to give you anxiety about, does that ever make you scared that like someone's not going to know how you contributed to this and be like, wow, she's terrible. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely that no it does but I've already you didn't give the anxiety I've already gone through all of that like thought experiment and also like there's every reason to think that it'll turn out great as well, but but I also am like, you know, it's interesting with all of these contracts you always have like, I'm like, am I going to get in trouble, you always have a non disparagement clause where you can't speak disparagingly about the people who are putting millions and millions and millions of dollars into your work and like you could just ruin it.

40:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I also like I don't want to speak disparagingly like I don't think that that does anything So that's not what I'm doing here, but I do think that like everyone I've worked with I've also made it clear I'm very very honest and I like actually can't lie I'm very very bad at lying.

41:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel uncomfortable with it. [SPEAKER_01]: The only time I've lied in my life is like Usually by accident and then I'll think about it later where I'm like, oh no, that's like not really true. [SPEAKER_01]: Why did I say that? [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then it stresses me out so anyway there did [SPEAKER_01]: everyone, all the teams that I am working with are very aware that like, I'm not going to disparage anyone.

41:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I want these movies to do well. [SPEAKER_01]: I want them to succeed on a commercial level. [SPEAKER_01]: I want them to succeed on an artistic level. [SPEAKER_01]: I understand that things need to change. [SPEAKER_01]: Also, like usually when a director comes on, in this case, like it hasn't been formally announced, but there is a director attached for funny stories.

41:37 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's who's working on the rewrite and that's a very normal thing that happens very commonly because again, they want [SPEAKER_01]: everyone I am working with is also aware that like I'm not going to like live for them. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm not going to just be very grateful for everyone's hard work and also like, you know, I will communicate to the readers.

41:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I won't be able to be like, yeah, I did that or I didn't do that. [SPEAKER_01]: I'll just fit there were a lot of voices. [SPEAKER_01]: Like if there are things that they're unhappy with that I did, I will explain why I did them. [SPEAKER_01]: and other things that they're unhappy with that I didn't do I will explain that there are more that like I'm it's not just me and there are a lot of things that work in a book that don't work in a movie and there are a lot of voices and everybody needs to feel ownership, etc.

42:17 [SPEAKER_01]: etc. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like it's just a much it's a different thing. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a totally different thing. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's an additional. [SPEAKER_01]: It'll be true at once. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: You can feel a certain way about the process and also speak your truth and also [SPEAKER_02]: What's best for everyone?

42:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know, it's weird being at this moment in my life because I also feel like I'm finally crossing over that threshold that like every older woman like promises you, like you get to a point where you're just like, I don't care. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm just scared of that much.

42:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And this guy was waiting for so long. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, everyone's been promising me this, but I still really, really care and like want everyone to be happy all the time. [SPEAKER_01]: And now I'm like, I just want to be good to everyone. [SPEAKER_01]: And whether they're happy or not, like I can't control that, whether they [SPEAKER_01]: Like me or not, I can't control that, but I just want to be good to the people around me and to be understanding and and compassionate and like, you know, supportive, but also like I'm going to be honest about how I feel about things and it's like not an anxiety worth like living in because like you have no control over it.

43:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I have no control over it and also almost certainly, even if it was exactly what I wrote and wanted. [SPEAKER_01]: They're still going to be people who the movie is not right for. [SPEAKER_01]: And that is just okay. [SPEAKER_01]: That just I can't, you can't make something for everyone unfortunately.

43:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think when you try, is actually when you end up getting that really, hey, I slot feeling the end of the process. [SPEAKER_00]: Who is this for? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: It's really your fault for writing such fantastic books that people feel so emotionally connected to that.

43:37 [SPEAKER_00]: in their mind, it's the only version of it, and they see it, they're like, that wasn't it. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I also do take that as a huge compliment. [SPEAKER_01]: I take the readers being really passionate and having strong feelings as a huge compliment. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not offended by that at all.

43:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, I'm like, yeah, I'm not mad or upset at anyone who doesn't like the adaptation. [SPEAKER_01]: I love that they have strong feelings, and [SPEAKER_01]: you know, like there's nothing wrong with that. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: It's it's it's also just like it's art and it's everything and it's also not that serious.

44:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it they're allowed to like hate it. [SPEAKER_01]: They're allowed to hate it. [SPEAKER_01]: It's fine. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: It's fine. [SPEAKER_00]: You don't care anymore. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean as long as I don't think about it. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't care.

44:14 [SPEAKER_00]: With agent good medication. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like you just get that point. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: That's true. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Is there an adaptation that you're most looking for to seeing like a ball of them? [SPEAKER_00]: Which is all of your books basically.

44:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: You know what? [SPEAKER_01]: That's [SPEAKER_01]: excited about it. [SPEAKER_01]: This is kind of sad, but I'm like the one that most excited about is the one that we have not let anyone buy it. [SPEAKER_01]: Which is great of a beautiful life. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, which, you know, I do think that's like kind of like when you're most excited about the idea you haven't started writing yet.

44:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's perfect. [SPEAKER_01]: No, it's touched it. [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't ruined it yet. [SPEAKER_01]: With great big, beautiful life, like I, we decided based on all these experiences that I would rather like try to package it, which for people at home who don't know what that means.

44:56 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like try to find a director who is excited about the script that I've written and try to find [SPEAKER_01]: talent who is excited about the parts that I've written and and build it that way because if you build something that's already like a complete package then it's less scary for studios and they will like they are like you know I can I could sell it now but like when I sell it it will become the studios and the producers and they will start putting it together and I would lose you know any say over it and for that one I feel really strongly about how it should be handled and so [SPEAKER_01]: that is like, I do feel like with every adaptation I'm trying a different process and eventually I'm going to try the process of, I don't know anything.

45:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I just show up at the premiere. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, and so which one is like the best situation for me, but for this one I really want to try to give it time. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm not in a rush. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't care. [SPEAKER_01]: Like the books are my things. [SPEAKER_01]: So like, we'll take as long as we need to to try to build it out to be what I think it should be.

45:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen and that's okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you said you were doing the script for that one. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I wrote a draft of that just again, like on spec, which during my year off. [SPEAKER_01]: So I haven't touched in like a year now, so it's actually really exciting, because I never get to set something aside that long.

46:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So when I go back to try to rewrite it, it will, I will be able to see it more clearly. [SPEAKER_01]: I think then. [SPEAKER_01]: I used to. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: It was really good to write something out. [SPEAKER_02]: Take a step away from it.

46:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Come back. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Figure out what's funny. [SPEAKER_02]: Figure out what's not. [SPEAKER_02]: What works. [SPEAKER_02]: What doesn't. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm actually I'm writing my first romcom for screen right now. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm very excited because I wrote a pilot prepandemic and I had the time of my life.

46:34 [SPEAKER_02]: We produced it independently. [SPEAKER_02]: It was so much fun and I was like, I want to do that. [SPEAKER_02]: And then the pandemic happened and I was like, oh, well, [SPEAKER_02]: really great timing. [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm getting my feet wet again and it's been so much fun to really play around with because I had originally written it to be a TV pilot and now I'm like let's expand it to be.

46:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because this could be a lot of fun. [SPEAKER_02]: and it's really funny to go back to the things I wrote in like 2019, 2020, 2021. [SPEAKER_02]: It'd be like, wow, you're funny. [SPEAKER_01]: And also like, this does not work at all. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, good try. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

47:07 [SPEAKER_01]: No, that is amazing because I do feel like when you're reading a draft one week after you've written it, you're like, this isn't funny. [SPEAKER_01]: This is garbage. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, all still in your head, you're like none of this, [SPEAKER_01]: like, you can't tell what's good, you can't tell what's bad.

47:18 [SPEAKER_01]: That's amazing. [SPEAKER_01]: Also, as a question, could you ever, I know this is like, you're still working on the script itself, but like, could you imagine a world where your rom-com also becomes a musical? [SPEAKER_01]: Ooh, not this one specifically, okay. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I guess I could see it.

47:34 [SPEAKER_02]: So here's the, here's the premise. [SPEAKER_02]: It's called Minnesota 10 and it's about two girls who decide to up root their lives and move to a small town in Minnesota and it's been my love because someone [SPEAKER_02]: And so they think they'll have an easier time finding boyfriends if they, you know, narrow the picture.

47:50 [SPEAKER_01]: That actually sounds exactly like it would be an amazing musical to me. [SPEAKER_01]: They would be a long, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that would be definitely the road trip itself would be really fun. [SPEAKER_02]: Like just just writing the musicalized version of that. [SPEAKER_02]: So maybe, I don't know.

48:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Now you got me thinking. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm listening to big. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm always thinking big. [SPEAKER_01]: I love that. [SPEAKER_01]: Also, like, I'm sure you're just trying to fill up your time. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: I know we're all just looking for ways to fill our time.

48:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, it's funny because I set this goal for myself at the beginning of the year to write the first draft of this rom-com by the end of the year. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm almost getting married this year and I was like, yeah, you know, why not? [SPEAKER_01]: Just throw it just out of something else, cleaning.

48:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Although some, you know what, like, I think about when I had a full-time job in addition to writing and I'm like, I'm kind of concerned that maybe I was getting the same amount of work done then. [SPEAKER_01]: And I know, you know that feeling of where you're like maybe like I'm the problem and like the schedule isn't the problem and like maybe the more busy I am like I still managed to do the same amount of things.

48:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: Now I totally hear that. [SPEAKER_02]: That's also kind of me. [SPEAKER_02]: But what I was going to ask you was part of the reason I wanted to turn this into a rom-com is because I feel like the rom-coms of like the 90s and the early 2000s. [SPEAKER_02]: The rom-coms of your if you will.

49:02 [SPEAKER_02]: We're a big comfort food for me in addition to Gilmour Girls. [SPEAKER_02]: And I want to create pieces that feel like that visual comfort food. [SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm curious because I know that you've said in the past that you were raised on Nora Afron and Gilmour Girls, which is just like the Venn diagram of our podcast and what Haley and I have going on.

49:19 [SPEAKER_02]: What did you feel was lacking in those kind of like during the period of time where there was a bit of a rom-com drought, like in the 2010s, what did you feel was lacking from some of your more lesser favored rom-coms that the ones that really inspired you to write rom-coms have? [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's so interesting because I think that they, I feel like when there was the drought, there were the romcums that were getting made to me, at least, it might not be accurate to the persons and the people's intentions who worked on them.

49:50 [SPEAKER_01]: But I feel like they felt quite cynical. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's interesting because I think like Nora Afron, Amy Sherman Paladino, they're good at writing characters who are like a little bit cynical, which I relate to, like I, I feel like with Nora Afron, especially like you, I think about her personal writing and her journalism and her essays and all that and then I think about her romantic comedy is and there's this weird gap between them where it's like, [SPEAKER_01]: It really feels, I wish I could have known her.

50:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I really feel like I have so many questions, but it feels to me as an outsider. [SPEAKER_01]: Like she was kind of the typical romantic turn to cynical. [SPEAKER_01]: Like I think that most cynics really are, and I think this isn't one of the books that I've published. [SPEAKER_01]: Misynics are romantics who like kind of get discouraged by the world, and I feel like [SPEAKER_01]: Nora Efron's personal writing in her essays and like apparently in some of the ways she moved through, her relationships, all of that could be like she was like kind of a hard asset seems like like she was like a tough lady and like, she had a really sharp eye and she could home in on on people on people very closely in a way that wasn't like necessarily flattering.

50:59 [SPEAKER_01]: But then she wrote these romantic comedies that are so hopeful and there's like this melancholy to them too because it's like there's this this feeling in them this deep understanding that the world is imperfect and they're not really like aspirational in the same way that I think some of the later run comes out which I also really enjoy a lot of the like big broad aspirational rom-coms how to lose a guy in ten days is like a great example when I love love [SPEAKER_02]: Love it.

51:23 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's very different from Nora Afron's sensibility. [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like her sensibility was so grounded. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, obviously, like her New York is a little bit more sparkly and like rich than most of New York, but also like her characters are so grounded. [SPEAKER_01]: And they have needs and fears and things that they're not going to be able to fix within a two-hour window.

51:46 [SPEAKER_01]: And falling in love is not going to fix those things either. [SPEAKER_01]: But falling in love is still going to be the point of the movie and that happiness that they find with each other is still going to feel like heart swelling and life altering and healing even while things remain imperfect.

52:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I think like my go-to example for this is always you've got male how Kathleen Kelly is like going to lose her mother's store and at the end she does lose her mother's store and it's devastating she does not get like the main thing that she's [SPEAKER_01]: and love is sort of in a way like this constellation prize, but not like in a sad way, it's like in a like, yeah, like the world is moving on and it's changing and that is sad.

52:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And also I'm in love and I have this person who understands me and sees me and like that's not nothing. [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that balance of the melancholy and the groundedness and the cynicism with the hopefulness and the sparkle is part of it and then also just visually like he were saying like the reason I love Gilmore Girls for so many reasons the dialogue like whatever but it's like the look and it's that it yeah it's like that's why every fall people are like I'm going to put on Gilmore Girls and like have it on in the background or rewatch it actively because it's like [SPEAKER_01]: an environment that it's created.

53:03 [SPEAKER_01]: It's created a feeling. [SPEAKER_01]: And in a nostalgia where it's like, you have these memories attached to your own like youth or whatever in fall, in winter, and then you watch this show that's like really leaned into that and into that coziness. [SPEAKER_01]: And that messiness also, like, I don't like when I'm watching a rom-com and everything looks really poppy and clean, like, and like, to styled.

53:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And Gilmore girls, you're like, in this [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: It really feels like lived and it really feels like a real person lives there. [SPEAKER_01]: There is dirty laundry. [SPEAKER_01]: There are dishes sitting out. [SPEAKER_01]: There are the weird knick knacks that Laura li would pick up and like her fuzzy phone and whatever, but also look at quilts because that's like how real life looks like for most of us.

53:45 [SPEAKER_02]: But it's true, I do think that that cozy nature that you were describing, I mean, we get it in Kathleen Kelly's home and it will like go more home in two very different ways. [SPEAKER_02]: Because Laura lies way more chaotic than Kathleen Kelly, who's a little more put together, but still has a very lived in home environment.

53:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And one of the things that I really want to contribute to any of the stories that I tell is that timelessness, that like this could exist in any time, and it would still feel right. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I really think that's what makes something like a classic. [SPEAKER_01]: Like the things that we call just classics and the things that come out and you instantly feel like this is like a modern classic.

54:21 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like that feeling of timelessness. [SPEAKER_01]: Even it's like it appeals to you right now in this moment for a very specific reason. [SPEAKER_01]: But it's so deeply human that it like also is removed from time. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think about like, [SPEAKER_01]: all of the old, old, around like 50s, 40s romcoms as well, that I still watch, and it's like, these theoretically should have nothing to do with my life, and I still feel so connected to them, and like, can still feel all of the emotions of the characters and still like relate to them, and I think about like, actually specifically when then I talk about a lot is the desk set, which, and where everyone's parents wrote.

54:57 [SPEAKER_01]: oh yeah and it's really yes it's a really good holiday movie watch it in the winter if you're able okay also is a new worker if you haven't yeah no I haven't seen it and you may know about it I'm so excited it's so underrated and it's Catherine Hepburn who I am just [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, in love with and then Spencer Tracy and it is like so the blueprint for you've got me all which is interesting because you've got me all as like inspired by Irons Lubich's shop around the corner.

55:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but yes, but if you watch the desks that you'll be like, oh, this is actually [SPEAKER_01]: you've got me all because it's like basically the premise is this this woman who's a librarian for NBC she's a grunt library NBC in Manhattan. [SPEAKER_01]: So like whenever they're the writers are working on something they have a question they call down and there's these like four women or whatever who are running around and they have all of the books and they also have all these poems memorized and like Bible verse memorized whatever so whenever they need to like check like do do research basically [SPEAKER_01]: They call the library, Katherine Hepburn and her gals, run around.

55:52 [SPEAKER_01]: They find the information they get back to her. [SPEAKER_01]: One day, right in the beginning of the movie, Spencer Tracy comes in. [SPEAKER_01]: He's just kind of shuffling around in the library. [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, who's this weird old guy? [SPEAKER_01]: He's measuring stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, do you need any help, sir?

56:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, no, I'm good. [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever, they come to find out that the reason he's there and measuring is because he works for a company that is going to install a computer in the library. [SPEAKER_01]: And this is like a big, you know, this is like in the 40s. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like a room size computer.

56:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And the goal in all of these women's minds is to put them out of a job. [SPEAKER_01]: And so they become hell-bent on Catherine Hepburn, sort of the mother had, and she's like, we have to like convince NBC, basically, that we can do this job better than this machine. [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's, but meanwhile, she's also falling in love with Spencer Tracy, who is just just weird.

56:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I don't know like how to explain him, but like I don't know it all just feels so familiar and so really But it's also so you've got mail with like these two people who are at opposing ends of you know What they're trying to make happen and like falling in love anyway and it's kind of like about the the fear of like the world's moving on and it's like Yeah, now we look back and are like, well, yeah, obviously a computer to net [SPEAKER_01]: like to get rid of the need for librarians.

57:07 [SPEAKER_01]: But it did change the world forever. [SPEAKER_01]: We're literally facing that today. [SPEAKER_01]: We're literally facing that today. [SPEAKER_01]: And if I felt like I had the emotional capacity to engage with AI, I might write about it, but I simply cannot. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I simply cannot.

57:19 [SPEAKER_00]: And the modern day version of that would make me do that. [SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I don't think it's a rom-com. [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a thriller. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, literally. [SPEAKER_00]: We're hopefully AI is destroyed in the end. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I hope, but I think it's more likely based on every movie ever made that we are just living in Huffles unable to have jobs and pay for food while yeah, I'm running my my books.

57:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a good thing that you have so exactly well, that's why she built the wall. [SPEAKER_00]: I would do it with them last. [SPEAKER_00]: I would save them for that. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but that's so amazing. [SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe I've never heard of that movie. [SPEAKER_00]: It's real.

57:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I have to watch it. [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of those things now that like I have so many questions for you. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like well, maybe we should just keep talking [SPEAKER_00]: No, we can talk about whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I've gone off on so many tangents. [SPEAKER_02]: We haven't even got to the girl.

58:04 [SPEAKER_02]: I was going to say, I feel like we've got to get into the Gilmore. [SPEAKER_02]: We've got to get into the Gilmore app. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because we talked about the North-Effron side of like being like growing up in North-Effron and Gilmore girls. [SPEAKER_00]: Because you talked about it directly related when book lovers came out.

58:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: What is the Gilmore girl's side of that? [SPEAKER_00]: What is it like for you to be raised on Gilmore girls? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it's the dialogue in the sense of humor. [SPEAKER_01]: I remember watching it. [SPEAKER_01]: It was like my whole family watched it together when it, like, oh, fine.

58:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: It was like, you know, we weren't, it was a different time. [SPEAKER_01]: So we weren't like a huge TV house. [SPEAKER_01]: And it was like, I think that like, maybe we had been watching like the seventh heaven or something like that as a family. [SPEAKER_01]: uh, twisted.

58:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And then. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. [SPEAKER_02]: Same. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that was the gateway to Gilmore Girls because then they put it like either when that, the season of that stopped airing. [SPEAKER_01]: It was a Gilmore Girls picked up or it was like right after 7th heaven or something.

58:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: And they even did that on ABC family. [SPEAKER_02]: It would be like 7th heaven would air in the afternoon and then reruns of Gilmore Girls would air right after. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So like we were watching 7th heaven. [SPEAKER_01]: You were watching Gilmore Girls.

59:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Which was a good counterbalance, I think. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I think like we just started it because of that and then my parents really liked it too and and you know, I was like a kid and I only had a little brothers and like I was so entranced by Laura lie obviously, especially in the early seasons, so it was like she's absolutely fabulous.

59:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and my, you know, my parents, like they have good senses of humor, but they like really, they loved the show and they like thought it was really funny and I, I feel like I remember, I remember my dad talking about his sister and his sister's daughter, like my aunt and my cousin and like they were very, very close and like they were around those ages at that time, like, [SPEAKER_01]: My cousin was in high school and he was just like, yeah, this just reminds me like so much of them like because they were just like also like best friends Like she also had a son who she loved But she and her daughter like did go like I think they did like go to Europe together and like maybe maybe backpack I can't remember for sure, but it was like I think that input from my parents of like oh, this is like There's so funny in charming and also this reminds me of Laurie and Audrey and like whatever I think it like I was like Oh, this is this is what it is to be funny and I also think like I had it been watching a lot of

1:00:13 [SPEAKER_01]: comedy centered around women, no one really was. [SPEAKER_00]: That was kind of novel at the time. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so I think it kind of rocked my world as a little ham. [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, so I think it just like taught me dialogue. [SPEAKER_01]: I also think I just, I don't know, like I was probably a pretty weird kid and I think like just having this model to look at and and like idolizing in a way on some level again.

1:00:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, I want it. [SPEAKER_01]: I want to be smart and funny like that. [SPEAKER_01]: I want to be cool like that like whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it's so interesting to talk to people who like that was their childhood. [SPEAKER_00]: You saw someone like that or someone who talked like you talk to someone who watched it as an adult and think about how their life would have been changed.

1:00:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you're like a bravo reality person, but we had. [SPEAKER_00]: Stasi Schroeder on a couple years ago, and she loves Gilmourkel's now, and she talked about, like, what's she like, she didn't watch it, she didn't watch it, but she was like, what would my life have been, have been like, had I watched it growing up?

1:01:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, I have like focused more in school, what I have been like, like valued being smarter than that sort of thing, and I'm like, oh my gosh, she is questioning her whole life. [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, because of Gilmourkel's, and I just love the impact that has on us as young women or adult women.

1:01:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I do think it's interesting too when you meet someone who does have that sharp quick wit who didn't grow off watching it because my best friend also did not grow up watching it and she finally watched it like a couple of years ago and she was sort of like I can't like the first couple seasons especially I think she kind of lost steam as it went on but the first couple of seasons she was like I love this so much I can't believe I didn't watch it like I am lower like this is so weird and it's really funny because I'm like oh so you just came out like that like.

1:01:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I had to like shape myself exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting, and funny. [SPEAKER_01]: You just, yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: I inherited them. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: That was natural for you. [SPEAKER_01]: Cool. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: It was like, I googled, well, I don't think I googled.

1:02:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I probably asked Jeeves who is Paul Anka. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: We'd ask Jeeves a lot of things about that show. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I would laugh so hard. [SPEAKER_02]: I'd be like, I don't know what they're saying.

1:02:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Totally. [SPEAKER_01]: I know it's the pop culture reference. [SPEAKER_01]: And you know what? [SPEAKER_01]: I also am sure that's partly why I love pop culture so much. [SPEAKER_01]: Like there have been a couple of times I've tried to write like fantasy novels and I'm just like I actually can't do this because I don't know how to make characters funny if they can't reference like real world things.

1:02:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah totally and did you find like it's so funny to hear you say that you just saw the or lie and it was like [SPEAKER_02]: Love it first sight cuz same for me. [SPEAKER_02]: I was like oh my god. [SPEAKER_02]: I want to be this woman like I want her to be my mom But I also wanted to hear but as someone who ended up becoming a writer Did you ever feel a connection to worry?

1:02:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Think about this, um, I think the fact that she was good at school. [SPEAKER_01]: I was good at school and it's interesting because I, you know, I grew up in Kentucky, you know, Ohio in the suburbs and I really did not have any kind of frame of reference for like the Ivy League of it all.

1:03:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I actually just saw today that this writer posted a thing about Gilmore girls and about how like she thought it was unrealistic that, uh, Rory didn't know what a Berkin was when Logan gives her a Berkin. [SPEAKER_00]: She absolutely wasn't on. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I was like, I had, I mean, maybe in Connecticut it was different.

1:03:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, but I was like, I had no, I thought out what a brick and was like, from Bravo. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, from Bravo within the last 10 years. [SPEAKER_01]: I had no idea. [SPEAKER_01]: And like, I knew about Harvard and Yale. [SPEAKER_01]: I still couldn't, you know, I can tell you what states they are in because of Gilmore girls.

1:03:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I can tell you what state Yale is in because of Gilmore girls. [SPEAKER_01]: Harvard, I would have figured out. [SPEAKER_01]: But that was the thing I went to school in Boston. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: But like, and I Princeton, I know now. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like adulthood.

1:03:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I came to know of these things and like one of my close friends in high school whose family was from New England ended up going to VASER and I was like I don't know what that like I had literally never heard of that. [SPEAKER_01]: So it was like if I'm not going to Harvard or Yale, I'm going to a state college was basically like this is all spectrumless.

1:04:06 [SPEAKER_01]: There's just exactly, and so that like the only way that I related to Rory really was I loved reading and I was good at school and I like, you know, because of her, I think was like, oh, maybe I'll go to Harvard, maybe I'll go to Yale. [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't even apply to it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

1:04:21 [SPEAKER_01]: We all have that line. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And I wouldn't have. [SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't have gotten in. [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't have extra curricular, like I don't know what I was thinking, but yeah, I don't think I really related to much of her career aspirations or any of that.

1:04:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I really did just kind of always want to be a writer and I didn't really have it and meshed with academia at all. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that makes sense. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it's like someone who's like more intreative that like just seem to want to be a journalist and then by the revival was maybe writing a nonfiction but that we're supposed to maybe believe was the series so we just watched.

1:04:53 [SPEAKER_01]: But I was I was such a worry go more. [SPEAKER_01]: I like it was that thing of you relate to her. [SPEAKER_01]: Did you resent her or were you like, I like that I can see that I see myself? [SPEAKER_00]: It was actually like, I had a time in my life where looking back, I don't have enough memory or like understanding of myself then to know if I related to where you're more or if I built myself.

1:05:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Like do I love to read so much because we're or did I relate to where you because I love to read so much? [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: And it was just at that time my life that she's like so formative. [SPEAKER_00]: And that was kind of why when I went to college I was like, [SPEAKER_00]: I can't really read them.

1:05:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I need to be serious. [SPEAKER_00]: I need to be right. [SPEAKER_02]: I have to be right. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so like it's actually had to kind of like heal and undo all of that. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I wanted to go to Yale. [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to be a journalist. [SPEAKER_00]: That was just unique to me.

1:05:38 [SPEAKER_01]: It was not something that wasn't anything. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't think about it anywhere. [SPEAKER_01]: Five paths that we were made aware of. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: It was like opening in run a diner. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I picked it up.

1:05:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I mean, that's, I wanted to run the independence in. [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to run the dragonfly. [SPEAKER_01]: That, no, that was so much more and also just like, I think the way that Laura lie dressed at work. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, Oh, when you grow up and you have a job, you're wearing like a little skirt suit all the time.

1:06:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, sure. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a little ruffle shirt. [SPEAKER_01]: But it's so interesting, Haley, that you say that you're like, Oh, did I like these because she likes them or did I relate to her because I like these things? [SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm like, Yeah, do I want a fuzzy phone?

1:06:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because like I didn't like get more or did I love Lord Laura like get more because she had a fuzzy phone and I was like I wish that I had a fuzzy phone and like yes, that would not fly in my house hold Yes, I'm worried that Your parents would have said no, but as a 32-year-old woman I absolutely have your own exactly exactly and that can be huge life changing [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.

1:06:40 [SPEAKER_02]: At that age, like you have fuzzy fun. [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted a phone. [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted a TV in my room. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I think that Laura like felt like, of course, cool mom, but she felt like everything I wanted to see. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I was like, like beads in my doorway.

1:06:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to be a global blue chair. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I want the inside of my room to be like a limited too. [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely. [SPEAKER_00]: So something I ask every author is that is on. [SPEAKER_00]: And that is, Gilmore Girls came out in October 2000. [SPEAKER_00]: What were you writing in the year 2000?

1:07:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh, I was writing an amorphous fan fiction, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so there were a lot of portal fantasies about like going into the woods and walking through like a doorway and then like kind of like nothing Oh my gosh, I've been after that.

1:07:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I wrote that story when I was younger. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I feel like that's can an event for every writer. [SPEAKER_01]: I think so I think that I mean, I think it's like what you're dreaming of and also maybe it's happening in another in another reality and so we're like aware of it Yeah, that's like a real option [SPEAKER_01]: That like everyone that's like the first story everyone gets and it's like yeah, you're going to do you're going to figure out the material yeah and it's like also when you when you were writing that as a child you're like am I going to go through this would become a writer or I'm going to be like actually this boring yeah I don't care about this story the woods I'm going home.

1:08:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't think I made it past the door. [SPEAKER_00]: I know what I was saying I did about the door and the door opened and I was like, well, that's kind of hard. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I figured out later. [SPEAKER_01]: Very much. [SPEAKER_01]: So I would say every single story that I was writing at age, that was 2000, I was 10.

1:08:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Every single story I was writing was getting to the point where something needed to happen and then being like, well, I'm out of ideas. [SPEAKER_00]: I might just know, yeah, it's enough for me. [SPEAKER_00]: And so how did you get from that point to writing speculative fiction for YA readers?

1:08:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, well, so I think, you know, in college, like, I was reading, like, it sounds like what you were reading basically. [SPEAKER_01]: I was reading what I needed to read for lit classes and, you know, writers who I heard people talking about a lot and all of that. [SPEAKER_01]: And I really loved some of those, but also, like, it wasn't.

1:09:02 [SPEAKER_01]: pleasure reading. [SPEAKER_01]: It was still like a task that I was studying myself. [SPEAKER_01]: And then I just started reading like YA like then really like I think twilight came out while I was in high school, but I read it in college because the movies were coming on. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what it was.

1:09:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the same thing. [SPEAKER_01]: Um Edward. [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry to be boring. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Is there another team? [SPEAKER_00]: No, Robert Pattinson said that recently. [SPEAKER_00]: He was like, that was from writing. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: I do believe that there's like a small.

1:09:29 [SPEAKER_01]: group of people who were genuinely team Jacob, but I also feel like those people were sort of like self-sabotaging in a way. [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, well, I could never get it. [SPEAKER_02]: That's not exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: So, Drew Biggerly, come on. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if they're like, you know, I need to be realistic about this.

1:09:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to use a live. [SPEAKER_01]: Jacob's a live, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And they hadn't gotten far enough to know that Jacob was going to fall in love with the baby. [SPEAKER_01]: So, and we, there was still, and we couldn't find about it. [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so I started reading much YA and I was like taking, you know, writing classes, I was studying creative writing and bullet classes were just part of that and so for like, on my short fiction classes, I was very much writing like just what I thought I should be trying to write, which is like literally stories about like men coming back from the Vietnam War.

1:10:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I actually have a lot of music on it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, it's a deal. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, to pull from really no information either, just to really win it. [SPEAKER_00]: Talk about creative writing. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm really creative. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like you're in like Gus and January is like writing classes in college But yeah, they're reading yours like what does she do?

1:10:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're like she is not right. [SPEAKER_01]: Something is not right with her It was her past life like yeah I mean I do also say that like when Gus and January I'm like I do just be like that was me splitting my brain in half and making them argue with each other [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so I think in college I started reading a lot of YA and then I took a novel writing class and I tried to write like a middle grade fantasy Obviously like I grew up on Harry Potter, so I was like, oh, that's maybe what I'll do that would be fun to write like a big world like that and really Enjoyed the novel writing class and that experience and then decided to like keep doing like national novel writing month like every year that it happened and year

1:11:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, for the first, I mean, I started publishing really young too. [SPEAKER_01]: So it was okay for several years I did it and then I started like focusing on editing my books and and querying agents and all that. [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so I wrote this middle grade portal fantasy basically that was not good at all and made no sense.

1:11:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I also like around that time, like, God, I'm so [SPEAKER_01]: I had so funny, I'm actually horrible at telling stories, great at writing them, I hope, but horrible at telling them. [SPEAKER_01]: So, okay, so we talked about growing up and being like, girl stuff is stupid, whatever.

1:11:41 [SPEAKER_01]: In college, I had a really, I finally had a really tight knit group of girlfriends. [SPEAKER_01]: And like, I always had close friends who were girls growing up, but in college, I had a group where it was like, oh, we want to hang out just us in no, no men around. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, all the time.

1:11:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And they were also a lot more comfortable with like liking the things that they liked. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, they love just slathering themselves with glitter and like dressing sexy and like all these things that I had really been like No, you can't do that if you want to be cool and smart and interesting whatever and so that really like change me significantly and I was still like studying [SPEAKER_01]: writing through all of this, but then I started reading these YA novels and feeling like this is so fun and I love how emotional these are and I love seeing like the romances unfold in them, the pacing and I love the immediacy of it and then at the same time I also started watching True Blood, caught up on True Blood and started watching Vampire Diaries and it was like having just the time of my life in this like pulpy, campy, romance, supernatural, you know.

1:12:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, storytelling. [SPEAKER_01]: And then the next time I wrote a book, I'd basically wrote a YA version of that kind of thing, of the kind of like a paranormal romance sort of thing. [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, so I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was just sort of like what I was taking in a lot of.

1:12:58 [SPEAKER_01]: And then also, one-size-stop, trying to write about men coming back from war and was trying to just write about things. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank God, trying to write about things I had any context for and any information about. [SPEAKER_01]: The only thing I had information about was being a teenager [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I was writing a meeting teacher because I was like, I have things to say about that.

1:13:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I didn't have things to say about being in my 20s yet because I was living them and I hadn't thought them through. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why also when I got older and moved toward my 30s, I wrote VTREN because it was like, now I have something to say about being in your 20s.

1:13:30 [SPEAKER_00]: That makes a lot of sense. [SPEAKER_00]: And I love that a million tunes. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that if anyone who hasn't read your YA novels but love your adult fiction, I think starting with a million tunes, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Because it kind of feels like young, genuine, for sure, for sure.

1:13:45 [SPEAKER_00]: In a speculative Romeo and Juliet feud, which if that's not interesting to you, I don't know how it's to sell it. [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of cherries. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that's one of my favorite books of yours. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just truly, there's something that you do that I hope that you go back to, yeah, like magical realism at some point, because like when the sky fell on splendor, too, and the love that's what the world, those are like some of my favorite books of yours because it feels so like you so deeply understood your teenage experience from those books, like just the way that you write about coming of age, I feel like is consistent from your teen novels, your YA novels, to your adult novels, because it's just coming of age at two different.

1:14:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly and I would really love to do the speculative bent to a story about adults as well and like I think that's just the kind of story that takes a little bit longer to percolate for me Yeah, and also it's like you know, I have my readers and I want them to be happy with what I'm doing but I do fully plan to at some point do that again.

1:14:39 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just really [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just when the right idea takes me and yeah, and also hopefully it was still be like feeding the readers who just went through romantic comedies, but it's like I'm not I don't know like you change as you get older the things you're interested in shift and move and I won't always be writing exactly what I'm writing right now.

1:14:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, but I feel like so many of your readers, at least like all of my, like we call ourselves the M-Hen girls, like all of the girls I talked to like they love a million Jews and these speculative books because at the heart of it, it's still a Emily Henry novel. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's still about the hard things in life and how long can you through it.

1:15:15 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that as much as like the premise changes if we do magic, if we get rid of it, it's still going to be an Emily. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's how I feel like, but even with great big beautiful life, it's interesting because a lot of people were like, yeah, this is like barely the Purchar and then some people were like, this is totally different and it's so much of it is just perception.

1:15:35 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, to me, and like this is still the same. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm interested in the same things all the time. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, and I think, yeah, you really can tell that if you read a million tunes and be back to back, you're like, [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, like she wasn't done processing.

1:15:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: No, well, like in the best way possible because we're like they're absolutely different stories. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's like go Steve figures and a million tunes. [SPEAKER_00]: There's not a single ghost. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not emotionally charged right in be trade, but speaking of be treat and all of your books.

1:16:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that one of the core hallmarks of your books is the quick-witted banter. [SPEAKER_00]: It's why you are like the perfect comp for Gilmore Girls fans and whenever anyone asks me for a book recommendation for a book that Gilmore Girls lovers will love. [SPEAKER_00]: It's your books because the setting is a place where you want to stay, but especially because the banter is just elite.

1:16:23 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's, it can be fast-paced if you turn Julia Wayland's voice up fast enough, but when you're in that zone, especially when I'm reading it, I feel like I'm giggling, my feet are giggling, I feel like I'm there, I feel like I'm there third, and when you're in the zone of writing that dog dialogue, do you ever feel like you're flirting with yourself?

1:16:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, would you give yourself your number? [SPEAKER_01]: I absolutely feel like I'm flirting with myself, and yeah, I think I would. [SPEAKER_01]: That talks to me. [SPEAKER_01]: Is that talk to me to say, yeah, I think I would. [SPEAKER_00]: I love it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I feel like I mean, even when you make a new friend who like texts like you, it's so powerful.

1:17:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's powerful. [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, I remember the first time I made like a close friend as an adult. [SPEAKER_01]: My friend, Break Havillero, who we co-wrote a novel, a little girl together. [SPEAKER_01]: But that novel came out of the fact that like we had a meet a meet cute that was similar to you guys where it's like we just kind of met online We were introduced by our shared agent.

1:17:18 [SPEAKER_01]: We started talking on the phone and then like after like a week basically We didn't wait the full eight months meeting person. [SPEAKER_01]: They got a little bit [SPEAKER_01]: But after a week, she was like, you should come visit me. [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, yeah, I should come visit you.

1:17:28 [SPEAKER_01]: She's like, okay, come this weekend, like whatever, chose a date, and then I'm flying to Wisconsin, and it's a blizzard, and she's picking me up, and we're driving to her parents cabin and up in Dork County. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like literally snow falling sideways. [SPEAKER_01]: We are talking nonstop.

1:17:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was like, yeah, it was like a feeling like falling in love to just like meet someone who you have this shared. [SPEAKER_01]: language with and who makes you funnier and smarter and sharper. [SPEAKER_01]: It's so much fun for a girl who loves to talk to me. [SPEAKER_01]: Someone who loves to talk and who talks the way that you like to talk.

1:18:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, who sets you up for jokes over and over again. [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I definitely think I would give myself my number. [SPEAKER_01]: All that to say. [SPEAKER_01]: because I'd be like, she's just setting me up to say what I want to say. [SPEAKER_00]: Like the perfect, I love the perfect comeback.

1:18:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And they have a perfect comeback for that as well. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: It is truly like meeting a soulmate in a way. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: It just speaks to the fact that like soulmates don't just come in the form of romantically down.

1:18:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes they're friends. [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes they're yourself while you're writing. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, that's where sometimes your friends sometimes it's the other half of your brain. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, your other personality, no, but you're so, you're so right, I think like, you know, as much as I was saying like in real life, like so many of us prioritize romantic love.

1:18:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I also think like there's a reason that there's usually a close friendship in everything that I write and like I feel like, you know, Gilmore Girls again to bring it back to that like, [SPEAKER_00]: We always do. [SPEAKER_01]: We always do. [SPEAKER_01]: It was sort of like two rom coms running side by side.

1:18:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously watching Rory and well, some was more rumb drum drum drum drum. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, watching Rory and and Laura like go through their romantic lives, but also Lake Suki is there the whole time and Lane is there and Paris like all these people that fill out this life and and that are kind of their soul mates.

1:19:15 [SPEAKER_01]: as well. [SPEAKER_01]: And like, I do feel like it's too much to put on one person. [SPEAKER_01]: You should have friends. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, friends. [SPEAKER_02]: And you should be a little bit in love with your friends. [SPEAKER_02]: You should have friends. [SPEAKER_02]: You can put me on that.

1:19:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna get a break right here. [SPEAKER_02]: But that's the reason why that's the reason why sex and city is so popular. [SPEAKER_02]: It's because like it makes it so aspirational, not just the city aspect, but to have women in your life. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Like regardless of, you know, for them, it was kind of this carousel of different men that they were [SPEAKER_02]: Trying on as Carrie says sometimes like you still have your girls.

1:19:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I love that It's so it's just as important. [SPEAKER_02]: It's just as important. [SPEAKER_02]: It's just as important. [SPEAKER_02]: That's even more good in women. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah Like you realize. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, this whole time I've been like putting romantic love on a pedestal Yeah, it's okay.

1:20:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's okay to put it up there, but like your female friendships should be sitting [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: I could not agree more. [SPEAKER_01]: I could not agree more. [SPEAKER_01]: I've like the last two years like I've played the best thing to come from my quote unquote ear off was that I just felt like even though I was writing all these scripts and all of that I felt like okay this is my chance to like see my friends a lot more my friends who live out of state and so I took a lot of like trips with my my girlfriends especially and so I you know friends all over and this year when I was back to business [SPEAKER_01]: doing both.

1:20:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just doing both. [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm fine. [SPEAKER_01]: But it is like so real. [SPEAKER_01]: I did not know how badly I needed that and how much I've been missing out by not prioritizing that more and like yeah letting so much of my friendship be over text, which is also very, you know, special to be able to do, but like getting to be together in person is like, [SPEAKER_01]: Heavenly.

1:20:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and going back to that conversation that you have with your friends, I feel like that is just so like like needed after this like Hollywood sort of year you've had these conversations that you've had that like kind of people that remind you that like I'm funny I have a great Yes, like the things that I do are fine and just kind of recharging you for this next book that you have totally although I will say like when I'm with my friends I mostly like I guess I'm not that funny because I do think that my friends are so funny like I [SPEAKER_01]: Like pretty much every time I take a group with a group trip with one specific group like kind of my college friends It's like one of them Peace her pants and like And maybe that one is me sometimes They're so funny that I'm like I actually am pretty boring and mundane and I'm fine with that Like you kind of want to be the least funny person in a group of really really funny people.

1:21:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but that also is recharging and like [SPEAKER_00]: It sounds like you're like the observer. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're the documentary. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure they will read your books and be like, hey, we talked about that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And now the two, I'm romantic about that.

1:22:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I made these words except for, no, no, no, it's have memories. [SPEAKER_01]: That's so perfect. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, coming after you. [SPEAKER_01]: That's a matter of being also, I probably don't even know if I'm doing it. [SPEAKER_01]: And like, oh, that's a funny joke. [SPEAKER_01]: I would have no idea because my brain is passive.

1:22:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: It's probably so many of your friend group just ending up in. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like the group chat, but it's yeah, probably. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, probably. [SPEAKER_00]: Is there a favorite couple that you like have written or are writing? [SPEAKER_00]: I think you love to write their banter or like that it can be easiest for the product of it was your favorite.

1:22:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, Alex and Poppy were the easiest to write. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: It was such a blissful writing experience. [SPEAKER_01]: This is not normally how it happens. [SPEAKER_01]: But I just fully knew them before I started writing. [SPEAKER_01]: It was like, I know who they are.

1:22:46 [SPEAKER_01]: So every time I wrote down a new bit of history, it just like made sense at all, followed logically. [SPEAKER_01]: And I knew exactly how they would react in every situation. [SPEAKER_01]: So that made it really, really fun and easy to write. [SPEAKER_01]: My favorite couple. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, so yeah, I loved writing their banter.

1:23:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I also really loved writing more entirely, because they got to be a little bit edgy here, [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of times my characters are like pretty nice, like, pretty, like, they're not so gentle. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's a bite softer. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And in real life, I think part of the reason for that is because when you're reading something, it's harder to gauge tone.

1:23:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you're listening to Julia Whalen, you'll know, like, oh, they're flirting. [SPEAKER_01]: They're not being vicious with each other, whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: But if you're just reading a book, it can just feel like, oh, that's, is that mean? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I mean, but in real life, like I feel like my friends and I like are pretty comfortable like playing pretty rough with each other.

1:23:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was gonna say that sometimes like if someone documented me and my sister-in-law talking they're like, they need each other. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're evil. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, [SPEAKER_01]: had bad girls, that's so true and it's fun when you have a character who makes sense for that and I definitely remember that my editor, she will push back sometimes on jokes and she's like, I think that this is like a little too hard whatever, but with Nora and Charlie that didn't happen at all, I think she was just like, yeah, this is how they talk to each other, this is like, this is the bit.

1:24:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: This is how I talk to the other half of me. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's not nice. [SPEAKER_00]: Um. [SPEAKER_00]: So one of the most requested questions for every Gilmour goals fan. [SPEAKER_00]: And that is what team are you on?

1:24:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's so hard. [SPEAKER_01]: I assume we're talking for Rory. [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like nobody has. [SPEAKER_01]: There's no other teams for, if you were like Chris, I have questions, but yeah, there's not really teams for, I mean, I liked Max, but then rewatching as an adult, I'm sort of like this does feel inappropriate kind of.

1:24:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And there are people that do like Jason for Lorelie and, of course, I literally couldn't even remember Jason it for a second. [SPEAKER_02]: Now I remember him, but it took us like, we did a couple of years ago. [SPEAKER_02]: We did like a male suitors bracket and, or no, was it when I was the bachelor ride, I was pretending to be the bachelor ride.

1:24:53 [SPEAKER_00]: This was actually the, we had a half episode where Tara was the bachelor at with the men from Gilmore Girls in the other half was the men from. [SPEAKER_00]: your books. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, from your books. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Who did you? [SPEAKER_01]: Who did you wind up with in both?

1:25:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't remember. [SPEAKER_00]: But I was we didn't do the Bachelor App because Tara hadn't read any of your books yet. [SPEAKER_00]: So she didn't know. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: We did it for, um, I did it just for Gilmore Girls. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

1:25:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Time. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Should revisit that and do it. [SPEAKER_02]: once I'm done with all the books, but I don't remember who I ended up with Gilmour Rolls-Wise, but it was so funny because I forgot to mention Jason, so funny that you say that, because like I totally forgot.

1:25:29 [SPEAKER_00]: We did a part two though, we're heat like the producers brought him in later. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was like, oh, and the producers, they brought him in. [SPEAKER_02]: They brought him in and he there. [SPEAKER_02]: 11th hour edition. [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: That'll be requested to come in because I forgot about him.

1:25:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, I understand why you forgot about him, [SPEAKER_02]: people do think that he could have been like a really good suitor for lower life, but yeah, it was just filler while we waited for Luke. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like, together. [SPEAKER_01]: No, you know, I, yeah, I'm, I, it's just funny because it's like, it's interesting.

1:25:59 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no, there's no conversation really to be had about lower life for Rory. [SPEAKER_01]: No. [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, like, here's the thing from for me for myself, obviously, Jess. [SPEAKER_01]: that said he would need to have grown up quite a bit because I am sure that he would be extremely condescending about my job at least at the moment when we left him in, you know, the original series.

1:26:20 [SPEAKER_01]: He was also like 21 or whatever at that point. [SPEAKER_01]: So it would depend if he could actually hang if he if he respected me for worry. [SPEAKER_01]: I think I honestly don't know like I understand everyone being like actually Logan makes the most sense and he probably just does but their relationship just doesn't give me any warm fuzzy feelings.

1:26:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but also like I don't really know that any of her relationships gave me warm fuzzy feelings. [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of feel like she I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, maybe maybe if I rewatched right now like the beginning of her in Logan would charm me more the time it did not.

1:26:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I understand that. [SPEAKER_02]: Haley is a big team Logan girl. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because she started watching the show in 2005 when he arrived on the scene. [SPEAKER_02]: So she had no prior knowledge of what was going on. [SPEAKER_00]: 13 and that's why it comes on screen and it's like he's talking and kind of the way that my brain thinks.

1:27:13 [SPEAKER_00]: He's like he's bantering with her. [SPEAKER_00]: They're having a fun time master. [SPEAKER_00]: He's cute. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's in like the secret society and I'm like oh my gosh I'm gonna yell my joint secret society. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you're really gonna meet up. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna have a conversation It feels like I'm having a conversation with myself [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the ultimate goal of dating, absolutely.

1:27:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I will say now that we're talking about all of them, like I was indetristened when he was a little shit. [SPEAKER_01]: When Chad Michael was a little shit. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I don't know why that worked on me. [SPEAKER_01]: That's alarming. [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, my favorite, you know, my favorite male heat of the whole show, probably really was, was Dave.

1:27:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, Lane's Daisy, yeah, I feel that we were done. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we were so, Lane was so cheated. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she was so cheated because he had to go make the O.C. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and we're all on our own. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, she has twins for some reason. [SPEAKER_02]: I know.

1:28:08 [SPEAKER_02]: That's when she has twins. [SPEAKER_01]: And now she has a natural, with her friends. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and like we're her, we're her exactly sleeping in bunk beds at one point. [SPEAKER_01]: Did I make that up? [SPEAKER_01]: No, that he might have brought in a book. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, he was going to book that, right?

1:28:22 [SPEAKER_00]: But they gave her her own room. [SPEAKER_00]: They gave her room as they shot it in very sweet. [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, just as Berlin, we talk about that a lot of them. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, that like it should have been Dave. [SPEAKER_00]: It should have been Dave. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it would have been Dave.

1:28:33 [SPEAKER_01]: If he didn't have to move away. [SPEAKER_00]: If he wasn't so charming and so talented, that Adam Brody, he could have stayed on going. [SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: He needed to have a little less charisma. [SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_00]: But then a little less charisma. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

1:28:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Dave wouldn't have been Dave, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know that he would have been it's funny because Adam Brody spoke to this I think like a year ago or so whenever nobody wants this came out and he was he was back in the Yeah, people were asking him about his character and he was like, I don't know, I everybody is so like romanticizing this guy for all we know like he maybe was like love bombing her and then maybe but like I don't say that [SPEAKER_01]: He was funny and charming and he liked a girl who had like the same interest in taste as him and like I don't know like I'm like I was in green flags all the way down green flags for days.

1:29:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Love bombing isn't reading the Bible at one night No, no, no, no, that's not the much work. [SPEAKER_01]: That's normal [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, total. [SPEAKER_02]: That's very fair. [SPEAKER_02]: That's loud and normal. [SPEAKER_02]: That's a lot of heat when above and beyond for someone who like was really shackled by her mom's like overbearing nature.

1:29:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And I love that he had no, no qualms about it. [SPEAKER_02]: He was like, I'll do it for you. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm 10 toes down. [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't think he was loved bombing her, but all of that to say we didn't see the way that their relationship would have played out.

1:29:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: I think it would have been great, but we don't know for sure. [SPEAKER_01]: We don't. [SPEAKER_02]: I agree with you 100%. [SPEAKER_02]: I think he was the old cement. [SPEAKER_02]: He's the one to use the one. [SPEAKER_02]: I think what we did eventually do the male on male bracket one episode.

1:30:03 [SPEAKER_02]: He did come out on top, did he not? [SPEAKER_00]: And one of them, yeah, just just came out on top and another one. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because he does grow. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he does grow. [SPEAKER_01]: And I like a lot of things about Jess. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm more charged by Dave. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm more sure I'm going to be, again, not that they're dating the same people, but wait, so Haley, we know that you're a Logan girl, so Tara, the way you said that makes me think you are a Jessica girl, but maybe you're going to surprise me.

1:30:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, it's like, it's Jessica. [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, we have Dean sucks merch in like Barbie fonts. [SPEAKER_02]: Poor Dean. [SPEAKER_02]: That is, we're not Dean, no. [SPEAKER_00]: Our first episode is called Star Cross Lovers and other reasons to hate Dean Forresters, so we put it out there big.

1:30:45 [SPEAKER_01]: It's so, I guess, the biggest thing to me that's concerning about, well, there's a lot of things that are concerning about Laura Live, but I'm like, why was Laura live so into Dean? [SPEAKER_01]: A little too much, I got a little too into Dean. [SPEAKER_01]: I did see the original Dean who'd been cast who was supposed to actually look like Christopher.

1:31:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And so it kind of made sense, except for he's not Christopher, and also Christopher fucked her over, so it's like, I know, why do we want to criticize that? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I think that at first, she doesn't like him at first. [SPEAKER_01]: She's very critical of him because he has a leather jacket.

1:31:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly because he was wearing a leather jacket. [SPEAKER_02]: And then he put the leather jacket on jazz and she was like, well, now I'm really skeptical about this guy. [SPEAKER_02]: That's so true. [SPEAKER_01]: They tried to retrofit that like Dean wasn't a leather jacket guy. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but he said that they named him D in like a James Dean writer, but Jared Padilaki was like a Golden Retriever man And so they were like, okay, well, it's actually have a leather jacket guy And that is how we got Jess.

1:31:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Was it that we got a jacket guy man. [SPEAKER_01]: I did love Talks to go me. [SPEAKER_01]: I did love that the dance marathon episode [SPEAKER_01]: So it's the best one to get a bracket for that as well. [SPEAKER_01]: We deemed that that was the letter back. [SPEAKER_01]: It's wow. [SPEAKER_01]: We love a bracket on this point.

1:32:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's nice to just have in Controveritable data to pull. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, really. [SPEAKER_01]: It's actually the best episode. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: It is. [SPEAKER_02]: And it was the 50th episode. [SPEAKER_02]: I think that we're really trying to like. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, do something spectacular and splash you with it and they did and I just think it is a perfect episode You've got family drama.

1:32:23 [SPEAKER_02]: You've got boy drama. [SPEAKER_02]: You've got small town charm You have a town event. [SPEAKER_02]: Dave. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, set Dave. [SPEAKER_02]: Dave. [SPEAKER_02]: Dave's there. [SPEAKER_02]: So automatically. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you do another spin off podcast that's just about Dave?

1:32:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Emily. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, of course. [SPEAKER_00]: You're doing it for every episode. [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm still a special guest every time. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to do like a co-host. [SPEAKER_01]: I want to make it a special guest. [SPEAKER_01]: And especially, we're filtering, specializing in your contract.

1:32:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, special appearance. [SPEAKER_01]: They're asking. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Vishenado. [SPEAKER_01]: Vishenado, certainly. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, God. [SPEAKER_01]: I miss him. [SPEAKER_01]: I miss you. [SPEAKER_01]: We do, too. [SPEAKER_02]: Listen, you can watch him anytime you want to.

1:32:58 [SPEAKER_02]: I just stop it before he leaves. [SPEAKER_01]: Just, yeah, I feel, you know, there's, I wonder, there's got any good Dave fan fiction out there. [SPEAKER_00]: I think I, for if you don't have Emily Henry 8 plant, we need some Dave fiction. [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, I don't hate that. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have, I don't have, well, I might have it.

1:33:16 [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to explain. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have a Dave or Gowski fanfiction planned out yet, and I think that I should. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because you should happily consider it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, we're biased. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, send me a draft. [SPEAKER_00]: So I'll give you some input.

1:33:29 [SPEAKER_01]: But I also just want to be able to enjoy it. [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: We're like, yeah, one thing. [SPEAKER_01]: But like, I just need to go to the, I need to Mandela effect myself into the universe where the O.C. [SPEAKER_01]: didn't happen. [SPEAKER_01]: And he is just on the show and just see what happens.

1:33:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll come back afterward. [SPEAKER_01]: I'll spread the gospel. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'll tell you. [SPEAKER_02]: Please let us know. [SPEAKER_02]: When was the last time that you watched it? [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was probably like 2017 because I don't think I was living in this house.

1:33:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I know I am do for a rewatch actually. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, okay, it was upon a pause upon a pause. [SPEAKER_02]: It's the perfect time. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I mean, and I have, I will say I have watched episodes like since then, but that was the last time I did a full rewatch. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, but I have, but in, yes, I'm sure most, if not all falls, I do just put it on and like usually the first like four episodes ish somewhere in there.

1:34:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like a YouTube on beyond. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, on exactly on the brother than the crackling fireplace. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, yeah, here is Rory and her golf hat. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: That's how you know. [SPEAKER_00]: That's how you know that Autumn is here.

1:34:32 [SPEAKER_00]: It's true. [SPEAKER_00]: Speaking of MN7, I know you can't say anything about it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, until you say something about it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but in a like a very indirect way, I want to ask you some questions about it as we go through and one of them that I have is what Gilmore girls team with the heroine of Emma.

1:34:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that is such a good question. [SPEAKER_01]: She would be on team Logan, I think. [SPEAKER_01]: I think she'll be on Team Logan. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: So we love her. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we love her. [SPEAKER_00]: She's running out. [SPEAKER_00]: She wasn't running before she showed us now.

1:35:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm always sad, but like I'm sitting even better. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: She's in her dream or deep in the ground. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And that isn't to say necessarily that the hero is Logan though. [SPEAKER_01]: I should, should preface with that. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just saying this is her, she will be Team Logan for sure.

1:35:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and it maybe didn't manifest in her love interest. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we'll see. [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you'll see some of it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and honestly, when you read, you might know something that I don't know because you are a Logan Grocery, you see it more clearly than some of us might.

1:35:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I'll send you a full right up. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure you'd appreciate that. [SPEAKER_01]: A bracket. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: I can't read anything. [SPEAKER_00]: So I know that a lot of your books you've talked about in the past start with setting and the research that goes into that and I want to talk about the research that you do for books by mentioning an essay that you contributed to.

1:35:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Now I know that it's quite an emotional essay, so I want to talk too much about it. [SPEAKER_00]: But you contributed an essay to the best dog in the world for if anyone doesn't know it's an essay compilation where each of the essays is titled after the dog that it is about which even just reading the table of contents I was already.

1:36:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and while reading this essay, I, well, of course, you wrote about your beloved dotty, make sure that's peace. [SPEAKER_00]: And while reading this essay, realize two things about your writing, one, you write about love because you love so deeply, because you have a love that will wait out into the water where she doesn't want to go.

1:36:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So people pull to you. [SPEAKER_00]: And two, it is undeniable how much research you do for your books, because [SPEAKER_00]: She was there in all of your explanations of the places that you took her. [SPEAKER_00]: She's in Georgia where Alice was on the lakes of Michigan with Daphne in January, Maine with Harriet and Friends in Hiking, Colorado with Alex and Poppy.

1:36:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that close readers will see all of those places and recognize that like you live the details into your work and you love these worlds into feeling as real as they do. [SPEAKER_00]: So knowing that and that like when I first read Dottie the first time actually was on my walking pad and I had to stop because I couldn't see because I was crying so hard because I was I knew where I was going when I started reading that and she knew what I was signing up for and I was like okay that anthology and you're like this can only end one way [SPEAKER_00]: with me on the ground if I don't know what's the walking path.

1:37:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So, my second read of it, I was like, oh my gosh, Doddy was there. [SPEAKER_00]: Like it was rare. [SPEAKER_00]: She was there and all of these soul. [SPEAKER_00]: And all these moments of like you finding all of these pieces that exist in the spaces that you're writing about to put into your book.

1:37:34 [SPEAKER_00]: So to that, where does research start for you? [SPEAKER_01]: Ooh, I mean, sometimes, okay, so usually if I'm choosing a setting, if I just like, I'm like, oh, I want to write about this place. [SPEAKER_01]: It's usually because I've already been there already spent time there. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I have a base level of knowledge of it.

1:37:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I usually can either write a first draft without going back, or sometimes I will just go back like in the middle of writing a first draft, but I always try and go back and spend some time there. [SPEAKER_01]: And then there have been times where I've just decided, oh, I want to write about this place, Maine.

1:38:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I had never been to. [SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted to write about Maine. [SPEAKER_01]: And my editor is from Maine. [SPEAKER_01]: So I also knew I would have like this, you know, safety net to catch me if I was getting anything super wrong. [SPEAKER_01]: But it was like an excuse to go to Maine.

1:38:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, take [SPEAKER_01]: And I think like that's honestly just like one of my favorite parts about having this job is that it gives me a really good reason to travel that it feels like it feels like meaningful on multiple levels where it's like I'm just having these experiences that matter that I wouldn't necessarily push myself.

1:38:39 [SPEAKER_01]: To have if I didn't have like a way that I could make it feel productive, which I don't think is a good way to live, but is kind of how I am. [SPEAKER_01]: So usually there's a lot of like Googling and like Google Maps and all of that, but then I also do try to go be physically in a place and take notes while I'm there and take a lot of really bad pictures.

1:38:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm not like taking cool pictures and just like, [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, like whatever, I can Google this plant later, like I can think about the way the single looked, whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot of that. [SPEAKER_01]: And then, yes, some notes in my notes effort and like a little note pad.

1:39:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Writing about writers, like I haven't had to do a ton of research about their careers and like with agenting and editing, all those things, like I unfamiliar with that. [SPEAKER_01]: But when I wrote Harriet, she is a brain surgeon. [SPEAKER_01]: And I did some research about like actual like brain surgeries.

1:39:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like brain anatomy. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was like, I guess, so you think they're just having a lot of sex, is that right? [SPEAKER_01]: And everyone is going to be very different. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think those are the only two prerequisites. [SPEAKER_02]: That's all in the brain.

1:39:40 [SPEAKER_01]: So you're going to have to do a brain surgery and like maybe like I know you scrub in. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, perfect. [SPEAKER_01]: Because it also scrubs exists. [SPEAKER_01]: So um, but for that one, like I do remember I was on a lot of message boards where it was like residents who were like talking about being residents and complaining about the things that they didn't like about residency and all of that.

1:39:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And like I didn't need that much detail, but I wanted it to feel real and like I had any idea with this job entailed and so most of it didn't like make it into the book, but I was really [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I love her. [SPEAKER_01]: Dye for me is out now. [SPEAKER_01]: But when she read it, I remember her being like, oh, how did you, like, do you have friends who were in residencies?

1:40:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, how did you know about some of these things? [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh, that's such a good news that it felt like I knew. [SPEAKER_01]: But it is so interesting because it's like on like read it or wherever. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like you can find everything. [SPEAKER_01]: Like everything.

1:40:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: You really have access to just so many human experiences. [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes a little too many. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: But I find that one's so interesting because, like, of course, I've always deeply related to your books with writers. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, those are the ones I always gravitate towards.

1:40:49 [SPEAKER_00]: But one of my sister-in-law's best friends is a pediatrician. [SPEAKER_00]: And her first book that she read of yours was Happy Place, and she was feeling a lot of career burnout. [SPEAKER_00]: And she read that, and it like completely shifted how she wanted to go about the rest for career.

1:41:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. [SPEAKER_00]: Because she was like, it gave her, like, kind of that ownership to be like, I don't think I can do this. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And she felt so seen in her medical career by you who's on message boards. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that just speaks to like how plainly you can like witness and experience with someone subscribing and put it into words that everyone can relate to.

1:41:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And I also think like, even though I'm not a doctor, like I have experienced burnout, I mean, like I shifted away from YA. [SPEAKER_01]: There have been other things in my life that I really thought that I, that I put a ton of time and energy into and realized, we're not serving me and that maybe I'd never really been doing them for myself anyway.

1:41:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's like all of what we were talking about, what about like how a classic is just like something that can stand the test of time and that always connects, I think. [SPEAKER_01]: a really good book hopefully you can connect with the characters even if your lives look very very different because the emotions attached to all of it should be somewhat familiar, you know?

1:42:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, definitely. [SPEAKER_00]: How does that research translate to something like when you're inventing a small town like Sunshine Falls? [SPEAKER_01]: Ooh! [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, yeah, so for that, it's like, obviously I'm usually inventing towns. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not always my next one to set in a real town.

1:42:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll have you know I won't let you wear, but it's a real place. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we can get to it. [SPEAKER_00]: I'll fake places though. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean the fake places is like the reason for the fake places really is because I love inventing businesses and I was being really nice and book lovers.

1:42:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right that one is like that whole book is just me being like basically playing rollercoaster tycoon [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I like the freedom, like it's like I go to a real town, like I think I went to I went to a few different towns around Ashville when I was writing and planning book lovers, but I still wanted to have total control over where businesses were and like who owned them and all of that and like obviously you can use a real town and just make those details whatever you want them to be, but I always feel a little bit we are doing it and I feel like yeah.

1:43:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm always paranoid that people from that town will be like, well, this isn't right, whereas if I make a fictional town that's sort of an amalgam of several places close to that, I always get so many comments from readers from those little towns being like, this is so clearly like my hometown, and I really see it, and I like, you know, it's very gratifying to feel like you've got the essence of a place right, even if you were still building it, like building a fictional version of it.

1:43:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because ultimately like it's as he said in amalgamation, but like if you had said this is that town everyone like your readers on their head been like this is not it she's false information. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: And then they've clearly she's just Google that like one of the funniest things one of the funniest pieces of hatemail.

1:43:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I forgot. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's work with me on vacation years and years ago, you know, in the book Poppy and Alex go to Vancouver Island and like that's like a very it's like their first trip. [SPEAKER_01]: And then later in the book at some point like Poppy's thinking about like what happened in Vancouver and I got this piece of hate mail from a Canadian reader who was like wow Vancouver is a different place from Vancouver is a different place from Vancouver Island there's also a city and you clearly don't know that and like all this stuff and it was like so bizarre because I was like wait if you [SPEAKER_01]: You couldn't even be bothered to Google it kind of thing and it was like if you read the book then you know they go to Vancouver Island and then they go to all of these real places on Vancouver Island They go to the town of Victoria they go up to Tafino like they do all the things that happen in those places

1:44:27 [SPEAKER_01]: that are real places and they even are marked in the right place and like it is so clear that I took this exact trip Like it is so thoroughly obvious that I have been to all of these places, but because I said Vancouver at some point instead of specifying Vancouver Island like later in the book They were like she didn't even Google.

1:44:45 [SPEAKER_01]: She doesn't respect Canada [SPEAKER_00]: Emily Henry had to teach us that period. [SPEAKER_00]: Good job. [SPEAKER_00]: Wild. [SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, that's like, like, if in your head, you were saying Washington and you didn't say DC, and then you were like, oh, how could I have done that?

1:44:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not respecting the United States. [SPEAKER_01]: I was in Washington, DC, but in my head when I was talking about my trip to Washington, DC, I said Washington. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's Washington, DC is in respecting the United States. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's very fair.

1:45:12 [SPEAKER_01]: A whole different podcast. [SPEAKER_02]: That's a whole podcast, that's a whole podcast. [SPEAKER_02]: But that is wild. [SPEAKER_02]: We have found also, I mean, I'm sure that's not the only story you have like that, but even we have found that the jumps that some people yes. [SPEAKER_02]: If we're one of those good time, we'll read our reviews.

1:45:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, never. [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely never. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I mean, actually reading someone else's reviews can be kind of healing because you're like, oh, I think you have fun. [SPEAKER_01]: Cause no one's all that serious. [SPEAKER_01]: And like reading your own bad reviews to a friend who also is reading their bad reviews can be healing because you're like, well, yours are just funny and ridiculous.

1:45:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So I guess mine are funny and ridiculous. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: We can't do it too seriously. [SPEAKER_02]: No, they are. [SPEAKER_02]: But the jumps people make for, yeah, really wild. [SPEAKER_02]: They're jumping really high. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I know.

1:45:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Speaking of actually, the photos you were talking about, I remember even when you posted, when you were sitting on the saddle seats and the railings, and the moment that you posted that, like a stalker, I reposted it with the quotes from the book. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I might have shared it then.

1:46:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Did I do it? [SPEAKER_01]: You did the show. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm getting validated here. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm getting there. [SPEAKER_00]: And I loved it because I was like this is like exactly what I want. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I want someone who has like lived these experiences and like doesn't have to be like like we're making stuff up all the time, but I think it just adds this level to it, which I would say is true about your characters too.

1:46:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, your characters feel so like lived in and memorable in their specificity. [SPEAKER_00]: Is there specific like research or like [SPEAKER_00]: process that you go through for each character because I was telling Tara beforehand that like I have a note in our outline that just says Dr. Bronner's and she was like, and what?

1:46:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that about? [SPEAKER_00]: What is that? [SPEAKER_00]: And I was telling her because like you have even specified in each book what each love interest smells like to like a specific degree that like I was calling her when I read like I'm in seven. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like I'm anticipating what he's going to smell like.

1:46:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh, and I'm like, what does he say? [SPEAKER_01]: I know, oh wait, I do know what he smells like. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I feel like I can, that's something I can tell you is he's got like a burgerma and Henoki kind of smell going on. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's, that's something I can tell you.

1:47:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, that's so exciting. [SPEAKER_00]: I know everything about him now. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know what I mean. [SPEAKER_01]: I know him to his court. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that is such a good question. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, smell I do think is important. [SPEAKER_01]: And if I don't mention it, which I think I do at this point every time, but if I didn't, I know my editor would be like, what does he smell like?

1:47:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's an important part of falling in love with someone, just what they smell like. [SPEAKER_01]: It's true, it's like significant. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, unless you don't have a sense of smell, that is also fine, but if you have a sense of smell, it's significant. [SPEAKER_01]: It plays a part.

1:47:35 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, the biggest part of my process, really, is like, like I said, with Poppy and Alex, I just kind of knew them with Nora, I knew her, and so I knew Charlie to an extent because I knew that my goal was to pair it up to people who were very, very similar for that one. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

1:47:50 [SPEAKER_01]: But the biggest key to getting to know all of them is figuring out, honestly, what fucked them up is kidding. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Perfect. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's like the, it's so often the thing that people gravitate toward in my books and what helps them choose like what their favorite of my books is seems to be like the characters like childhood wound.

1:48:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we're like their issue that they're trying to work through and like Harriet is like a super super good example. [SPEAKER_01]: And so like for Harriet I knew that she was going to be I knew she was going to be a brain surgeon I knew she was going to be very high achiever and I was trying to figure out like why she's such a high achiever and I was really reckoning with my own people pleasing which like as I said, I've gotten like a lot better and I don't know if it's You know me doing something or just like aging, but yeah [SPEAKER_01]: I have been such an immense people, please, or anti-achiever for most of my life.

1:48:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I was just trying to think through and not give her my backstory, like I don't want to do that ever. [SPEAKER_01]: But trying to think through a version of a slanted fun house mirror version of my own background and being like, okay, well, what made me want to please people? [SPEAKER_01]: What made me so afraid of letting people down and like, what do I really need to learn and to know, to get past that?

1:49:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, [SPEAKER_01]: her whole identity was sort of built around like who she was before. [SPEAKER_01]: This thing like naturally like her natural like little self and then also these moments that reinforce this idea that the way to safety and the way to love for her is to never upset anyone.

1:49:23 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the best way. [SPEAKER_00]: That's the best way it works every time. [SPEAKER_01]: It's never backpired in any way. [SPEAKER_01]: No, no. [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I think that's kind of been my trick. [SPEAKER_01]: Is like every book I am trying to figure out, like, what is it that they need to change in their life and when did it start and how did it start?

1:49:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And everything else about their identity gets built around that. [SPEAKER_01]: And then, like, you know, they have interests. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I have to know what their room looks like. [SPEAKER_01]: I have to know what they like to eat and drink and all of that. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, just all these little details, whether they make it in or not.

1:49:49 [SPEAKER_01]: The big thing for me is understanding their emotional arc. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, kind of what they need to work out. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and finding the corresponding moon and that's the interest. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love food. [SPEAKER_00]: You've realized that your readers relate to the books based on which food they still affiliate with.

1:50:05 [SPEAKER_02]: That's so interesting. [SPEAKER_02]: That's what you can act. [SPEAKER_02]: Again, our history, Haley and I, like, we didn't know how to talk to each other and do each other's moves. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: to care. [SPEAKER_00]: That's so true. [SPEAKER_00]: Tara, I'm gonna cry.

1:50:20 [SPEAKER_00]: That's how I am. [SPEAKER_00]: Because that is so true that like I feel like it's hard to have like a podcast conversation like this, where like I know people are gonna hear it. [SPEAKER_00]: But I want to be really honest with you and I feel like coming from that spot of like, you know everything I was sad about.

1:50:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's feel safer. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's go from feeling safe to playing a little game. [SPEAKER_00]: So I will also feel safe. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I also feel safe. [SPEAKER_00]: So I wanted to do sort of a mashup between Gilmour calls and your books.

1:50:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So I took that and I and calling this game Emily Gilmour, [SPEAKER_01]: of course after our matriarch. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's just a kind of set-ups of mixing up your books with Gilmore Girls and the first question is which Gilmore Girls character would most likely have a father with a secret beach house?

1:51:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I mean Logan. [SPEAKER_00]: So fair. [SPEAKER_00]: True. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't even think about him. [SPEAKER_00]: My gosh. [SPEAKER_01]: Of course. [SPEAKER_01]: He has an actual beach house and he would definitely have a seat. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: And he was still a secret one.

1:51:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: Which of your book characters would yell at their ex outside of a bar asking why they dropped out of college? [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe even you. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to say it would either be Charlie, you know, in a loving way, or Sabrina, in a tough love way.

1:51:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean both the tough love way those do. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I could see that immediately. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought of Gus shouting at January outside of the line dancing. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: But I can totally see Sabrina. [SPEAKER_00]: 100%. [SPEAKER_00]: What Gilmore Girls character would kiss their friend and then not talk to them about it for two years?

1:51:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my gosh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my gosh. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I've, I've, I've worried many too many. [SPEAKER_01]: Many. [SPEAKER_01]: All of them. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think we're. [SPEAKER_02]: I would. [SPEAKER_02]: I think we're. [SPEAKER_02]: I would. [SPEAKER_01]: I think just would.

1:52:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I think yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Logan would. [SPEAKER_01]: You know who wouldn't. [SPEAKER_01]: Dave. [SPEAKER_02]: he would call you. [SPEAKER_01]: He would call you. [SPEAKER_01]: I need to talk about this. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: He would leave. [SPEAKER_02]: He would leave.

1:52:13 [SPEAKER_02]: It's giving Jess Mariano saying I love you to worry more and then running away driving away. [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: Which one of your book characters would break up with their significant other because they didn't say I love you back? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, oh gosh, I was going to say Nora because she's practical, but I also feel like she would never say I love you first.