Gilmore to Consider: Was Rory Trying To Live Up To Richard’s Expectations?

0:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Five, six, seven, eight, two, one, let's do our tune around up. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's do it. [SPEAKER_00]: All right, here we go. [SPEAKER_00]: Hi everybody, welcome back to Gilmour to Consider with Terran Haley. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Terran, this is Haley. [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, Terran. [SPEAKER_00]: What?

0:24 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm just gonna inspect the goal. [SPEAKER_02]: I was considering, if you will, considering. [SPEAKER_00]: I guess that. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Before we get into our June Roundup, because we had a lot of fun this month, we had some fun topics, mostly centering on the Gilmours.

0:40 [SPEAKER_02]: We [SPEAKER_00]: That's so true, but I wanted to ask what you think about my shirt. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, well, actually, first of all, first of all, first of all, and second of all, where's mine? [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I have one coming for you. [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to test it out. [SPEAKER_00]: So if you're with us on YouTube, my shirt says drama peasant.

1:02 [SPEAKER_02]: I guess we catch phrase, honestly, oh man, I changed my mind. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so we recorded our next week's episode, was to do a summer check-in, like summer check-up, check-up sounds like we're going to the doctor. [SPEAKER_02]: If you consider as doctors, sure. [SPEAKER_00]: Please don't consider as doctors.

1:19 [SPEAKER_02]: I want to change my summer. [SPEAKER_02]: I want to have a drama peasant summer. [SPEAKER_00]: No, I have a drama peasant fall. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, here's the thing though. [SPEAKER_02]: The thing about being a drama peasant, which was [SPEAKER_02]: I've just not been feeling well the last two weeks.

1:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I've had a sore throat for two weeks straight. [SPEAKER_02]: Why? [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what's going on with me. [SPEAKER_02]: But it's when you are feeling dramatic. [SPEAKER_02]: And you're not, you don't have an energy to be the queen to like rain over the kingdom of drama, you know?

1:45 [SPEAKER_02]: So you're a drama president. [SPEAKER_02]: You're just like off, you know, work in the drama fields, you know, you're just, you're not, you're not in power in any way. [SPEAKER_02]: So you're a drama president. [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, that's how that came about. [SPEAKER_00]: So I was really excited.

1:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I made these shirts, and I was like, I was really hoping you didn't see them because they were kind of sitting amidst the whimsy shirts on our back now. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm always looking for them. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'm a girl in the front end. [SPEAKER_00]: It's true. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I was like, I ordered two different kinds because I wanted to see the placement.

2:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to see the feel. [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to see the sizing. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to move this down just a scope. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm going to say it. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's high. [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm going to move it down. [SPEAKER_00]: Because you know on the mockup, it always looks like it's going to be like here.

2:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Or like it's going to be underneath the rubies and somehow it's like atronet. [SPEAKER_00]: Somehow, yeah, it's all the way up here. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I wanted to get them so that we could wear them together. [SPEAKER_00]: When we see each other in Florida, I might go a bit to go if you're really fun.

2:37 [SPEAKER_02]: So truly I'm gonna be truly drop a peasanting then it's like a it's a drop a peasant time There's just there's no time in the in like Orlando summer to have them a energy to be the queen There is this level that someone would take care of you if you were the queen But if we're just like it just seems like a lot of energy to rule he's speaking of peasants and queens I just started watching Game of Thrones with Brett for the first time.

3:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and I wanted to tell you I did not know what that was going. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, is this going? [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to tell you because I know you're dead [SPEAKER_00]: Loves, don't bring it up to add. [SPEAKER_02]: Don't bring it up to love that show. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, he's also one of those people that loves to spoil.

3:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Like he'd be like, oh, so you've gotten to this part. [SPEAKER_02]: She've gotten to the part where they introduced bombs and everyone's exploded and everyone dies, and no one gets the throne. [SPEAKER_02]: And you're like, actually, I'm an episode too. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, so fair so fair, but yeah, it's just it's one of those things of like he will spoil it and you're like, Yeah, I'm not that foreign to it.

3:34 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, a lot of such show like he loves that. [SPEAKER_02]: You guys his favorite thing if you ever talk to him is to talk about his Game of Thrones watch parties. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, so he showed me all the pictures. [SPEAKER_02]: You had to come in like full cost him. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes to attend and I'm excited for you to have some Context for that it makes a lot more sense when you realize who Hannah and Chase where they were Brandon Hodor if you guys are familiar with the Game of Thrones [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

3:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but you haven't reached that part yet to meet those people, but no. [SPEAKER_02]: It's a fun journey. [SPEAKER_02]: It is. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Much like many of our beloved shows, it ends terribly. [SPEAKER_02]: But yes. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

4:07 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I've heard. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's so funny because a lot of people who I tell this to, they're like, oh, what I wouldn't give to watch that for the first time again. [SPEAKER_00]: And it was so iconic for it's time. [SPEAKER_00]: I just didn't hop on the train. [SPEAKER_00]: And so Brett was about to really watch it.

4:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And he was like, do you want to do this with me? [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, sure, please. [SPEAKER_02]: it's so hard to rewatch a show with you though because it's like the gossip girl effect of like you're watching gossip growth Brett suddenly watched three seasons and he's only watched two episodes so soon like oops I will say he's on this train with me like we watched three episodes one one night oh which Game of Thrones is famously long it's like an hour it's an HBO show there are no well there are ads now usually there would be ads oh you don't think for the [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's just because I mean we have so many different platforms as we were kind of talking about in the last episode on Tuesday.

4:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I know, because it's the, this is our first episode since Gamma goes left Netflix. [SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_00]: Now we're on feel a little dear. [SPEAKER_02]: I know, like it's, it's, I feel a detachment, but am I going to still have access to it in thousand person? [SPEAKER_01]: I know.

5:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I also, I will say I wouldn't in really hard on the ads, but I think it's just because I'm so used to it not. [SPEAKER_02]: But like, because I know that people, people get frustrated with our ads. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and we don't have that many in the really fair. [SPEAKER_02]: We're not making four different 50 money.

5:25 [SPEAKER_00]: No, that these platforms are making you know, I mean, yes, absolutely. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's the thing. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad you brought that up because we have had people comments on like, you guys have so many ads and I'm like, I don't think we have any more ads than any of us that you know, exist.

5:39 [SPEAKER_00]: We definitely don't have more ads than them. [SPEAKER_00]: I've had, I've listened to podcasts that have. [SPEAKER_00]: So many ads that I'm like, you guys, this is overkill, but the thing is is that I will always listen to the ads especially with creators who are independently producing their own shows because I know what that means to them.

5:54 [SPEAKER_00]: It is what helps keep the show going and we do our best to make sure that our ad breaks never have more than like two to three ads at the max and sometimes that won't even play depending on where you are, who you are, [SPEAKER_00]: I just think that it is a very non-invasive way to support small independent creators especially podcasters because that is the way that we can keep our show going.

6:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And so with all due respect, I know that people are just like, oh, I hate that they're ads and I wish that there weren't ads. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, well, I don't know what to tell you. [SPEAKER_00]: It keeps things going and also it costs you literally nothing, but just to be a high-minute or two of your time.

6:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And also, if you're going to get mad at anybody, yelling at two girls who create, [SPEAKER_00]: podcast. [SPEAKER_00]: It had headphones and you did not like I hope you're putting that same exact energy towards like really really big studios and streaming platforms that are not only charging you to watch the show but also you have to watch the ads.

6:48 [SPEAKER_00]: So it just baffles me when people I mean it's very few and far between but there have been some people who have come for us in ways where I'm just like wow. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's the it's less about the frequency and more about the passion [SPEAKER_02]: It's it's free to listen to this because it's streaming and all your paying for is with your attention when we have ad breaks Which honestly keeps the show running keeps us able to make the quality context people like oh my gosh They sold out they do ads now.

7:18 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like no we're improving our quatt our content because we can improve it now [SPEAKER_02]: But if you don't want to listen to ads, we do have ad for you on Patreon. [SPEAKER_02]: If you're like, I love this podcast, but I cannot listen to an ad. [SPEAKER_02]: We have a, it's a Patreon.

7:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, the same way that you will listen ad for you anywhere else. [SPEAKER_02]: Not on Patreon, but that you would subscribe. [SPEAKER_02]: So that's, that's there. [SPEAKER_00]: But that option is always there. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: But it always just truly baffles me when people come for small creators who have and get so angry and it's just like, first of all, touch grass, respectfully.

7:50 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how much money you think we're making, but it's really not that much. [SPEAKER_02]: It's really not that much. [SPEAKER_00]: And we're just two girls for our bedrooms just trying to keep. [SPEAKER_00]: keep this business going after four or five years of doing this. [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's it's a little sad when I see stuff like that, but I also have to let it roll because it's like one of my videos.

8:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like the people who are in our real community. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they have a community. [SPEAKER_02]: The besties. [SPEAKER_02]: They understand. [SPEAKER_02]: Y'all know. [SPEAKER_02]: Y'all aren't complaining to us. [SPEAKER_02]: You know where to find it if you do want to add for you, which we really appreciate.

8:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but every bit helps. [SPEAKER_02]: We're not making the amount of money that you think we are if you're complaining about the accident. [SPEAKER_00]: Certainly not making money like, you know, who Lou? [SPEAKER_00]: all of these other, HBO, because there's now ad breaks in, in, uh, Game of Thrones.

8:31 [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I know, it's kind of a bummer. [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe we'll invest in ad-free, quote unquote, you know, if in one of these has all the data or streaming platforms, but it's just one of those things where I'm like, oh, I can't pay more for anything these days, you know.

8:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I know, that's like the one thing I will always pay for, though. [SPEAKER_02]: Like some of my favorite podcasts, I pay for them to be ad-free. [SPEAKER_02]: Some of my favorite shows, I always pay, like, nasal, can't watch with an ad. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's true. [SPEAKER_00]: I did do that.

8:58 [SPEAKER_02]: I always do that because that's worth it. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's something that I will, I will exclude, but yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: But I hope that offers a little bit of perspective, not to get on our soapbox, but there have been a couple of people just in the last recent months, like, maybe two.

9:12 [SPEAKER_00]: But when they do approach us, it's angry, very angry and very accusatory, it was like, you value money over profit over quality and you're putting so many ads and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,

9:38 [SPEAKER_00]: That's it, truly. [SPEAKER_00]: I am a drop of the peasant. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just a drop of peasant. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not quitting. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a queen. [SPEAKER_00]: I can't afford the castle. [SPEAKER_00]: I cannot afford the castle. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like a small one. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a part man.

9:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just trying to live. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just trying to survive. [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, but I hope that that provides a little bit of perspective for not just us, but like any podcasts that have, especially people who are independently producing their podcasts. [SPEAKER_00]: Because that is what keeps podcasts going.

10:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Are the ads? [SPEAKER_00]: It's just a fact. [SPEAKER_00]: And you, of course, oh my god, yeah, but that is something that we learned when we first started this very slowly, but very shortly, we were like, oh, I mean, like to partner with you know, brands that we really care about and can actually authentically support.

10:20 [SPEAKER_02]: And I know, yeah, we've turned down a lot of very good offers for some things that we just like do not align with. [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm pretty sure if you guys had heard ad like this, you'd be like, oh, they sold out. [SPEAKER_02]: They sold [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's also why I made that kind of announcement a couple of weeks ago months ago on the podcast that I was like, if you ever hear a political out on this podcast, yeah, we're like, you know, we're like AI, if you guys are doing AI, yeah, yeah, you let us know.

10:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: That's like number one, get that the fuck out of here. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: That's very, very high priority for us. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I do think about you guys when we take ads, when we record ads, when we choose which ads we're going and campaigns we're going to be a part of and which brands we want to partner with.

11:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Because we want this to be a desirable experience. [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, that's our little. [SPEAKER_00]: That's our little PSA about that. [SPEAKER_02]: That's a little Adonats. [SPEAKER_00]: But, kind of speaking to Tuesdays episode and us ending the month with like Gilmore Girls leaving Netflix and all of the episodes that we did, we thought that it would be good to do a little round-up today.

11:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I know it's technically July, but we thought it was really important to talk about Netflix and Gilmore Girls leaving Netflix, so we did that on Tuesday, but we wanted to give you guys still a little June. [SPEAKER_00]: round-up episode and this month we can you believe it we started June with townies.

11:40 [SPEAKER_00]: That feels like six years ago. [SPEAKER_00]: Six years ago. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: We also have this problem sometimes we're scheduling ways we end up having to record the end of the month round-up in the middle of the month and this is actually truly at the end of the month this time so I feel like reflecting on it like that is a little bit different but it really does feel like so long ago that we recorded that.

11:57 [SPEAKER_00]: It does. [SPEAKER_00]: It does. [SPEAKER_00]: And to be fair, it was over a month ago that we recorded it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a few holes far away. [SPEAKER_00]: But one was that a really fun episode. [SPEAKER_00]: We talk about it next week. [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to do a little mid-year summer check-in.

12:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And we talked about some of the episodes that she all really enjoyed. [SPEAKER_00]: And that was, that was one fun day. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: It was the townies episode. [SPEAKER_00]: And we had so much fun with that. [SPEAKER_02]: I know there were some that people like helped us find the source of it because we couldn't find when Babette says I was in a cult once and that was in help wanted after the car accident with Jess.

12:29 [SPEAKER_02]: She says it's a story kind of talking about like bad boys. [SPEAKER_02]: And when I went back and watched it, I was like, I could see it so clearly in my mind. [SPEAKER_02]: I just couldn't place it and it was like exactly where it was. [SPEAKER_02]: So that was how it wanted. [SPEAKER_02]: Someone reminded us of some lines that we like absolutely love, like the Etchis Gatch and my favorite, which like, I don't necessarily consider Gill a townie.

12:52 [SPEAKER_02]: He's kind of like in like happy, Lee-Anrich kind of, I feel like, [SPEAKER_02]: Exist a little bit on the periphery of like the town itself, but Gil when he comes in for his audition for hep alien, and he's like, I'm gill One of my favorite lines, and like I was like, I can't believe we didn't even mention give it like an honorable mention because that's just like I One of the things I can't believe that we didn't mention these two I think maybe we talked about them very briefly [SPEAKER_00]: but Reverend Skinner and the rabbi, oh my David, maybe we touched on them.

13:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't really remember because it was so long ago at this point. [SPEAKER_00]: We didn't, rabbi, David and Reverend Skinner, who I just absolutely love my darlings. [SPEAKER_00]: They're so cute. [SPEAKER_00]: I love the scene with them and Taylor in season three episodes. [SPEAKER_00]: Six take the double bags.

13:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And nothing gets me more than Taylor threatening to revoke Rabbi David's bingo privileges and Rabbi goes at your peril meaning you're gonna tell my little ladies my buddies you're shutting down their bingo I'm not afraid if your bubby's rabbi For it's gonna go. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh god. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for letting me be in the room when Taylor said that [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's like when I see her, oh, good.

14:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, truly, we don't give them enough credit. [SPEAKER_02]: No, we don't give them, truly. [SPEAKER_02]: Speaking of credit, someone kind of argued with us and I a little bit agreed about Mrs. Kim not being a townie because she really does contribute to the town. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, to tell her, she's like, carnival, she's really there and like, maybe it's the sense that like Mrs. Kim feels more important than being like grouped in with the townies.

14:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because like, Sukey's not a townie, like, would you put her on the same level as that? [SPEAKER_02]: I kind of think Mrs. Kim is like a different kind of townie, but in her own right she is one. [SPEAKER_00]: I do agree. [SPEAKER_00]: I know that I saw somebody said something to the effect of like I think if they're in the opening credits they can't be considered a townie, but her.

14:50 [SPEAKER_00]: is in the open credit to some point and he is like the head of the town. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's difficult to say, I think she struggles the line, right? [SPEAKER_00]: She's kind of like Suki and it's like, yeah, she lives in town. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she participates in town events, but there's just something about her that feels like her story isn't about.

15:07 [SPEAKER_02]: It's more in Patown. [SPEAKER_00]: It's about lane. [SPEAKER_00]: It's about the relationship with lane and her relationship to lower-line worry because of lane, unless because she owns a business in town. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you know, she really was little in both camps, but yeah, she's more impactful than just being.

15:23 [SPEAKER_02]: one-atown person with all the other townies. [SPEAKER_02]: Totally agree. [SPEAKER_02]: And I felt like it was like we were elevating her rather than discrediting her. [SPEAKER_00]: Like what I had a percent. [SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't saying like, oh, yeah, it wasn't disparagingly. [SPEAKER_00]: It was truly like, I think she's more of a series regular than some of the guest appearances we get from the townies.

15:41 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: It's like Andrew and Mrs. Camernaught two people I put on the same. [SPEAKER_02]: They don't impact the cleanters in the same way that Mrs. Kim does. [SPEAKER_00]: I agree. [SPEAKER_00]: The next episode that we did was Gilmour's in Star's Hollow, which people really enjoyed, and that led us into a two-part episode for Father's Day all about Richard Gilmour, and his relationship with Laura and his relationship with Lori.

16:03 [SPEAKER_00]: There was a voicemail that we received that I thought was very fascinating that I'd love to play that kind of references the [SPEAKER_00]: to part father's day episode that we did and so let's hear from our bestie Allie. [SPEAKER_01]: My name is Allie and I was listening to your episode always a grandfather not a grandfather and I was listening to the part where you were talking about how Richard was so proud of Roy for being the top 3% of her class and it did really made me sink.

16:32 [SPEAKER_01]: that maybe earning Richard's love was the reason for her downfall because she was considered such a quote mistake. [SPEAKER_01]: She felt like she had to prove her worth through all these academic achievements. [SPEAKER_01]: Which is why when things weren't going her way, you know, in jail, which was taking too many classes in the paper wasn't going well.

16:55 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a complete breakdown, or in the revival, when she was kind of struggling to find her place in her career, and where she actually wanted to go. [SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if that was because she spent her entire youth trying to prove how good and smart she was to make up for feeling like she's a burden and ruining people's life due to the ideas around her conception.

17:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm really curious on your thoughts here because we obviously did a lot of preparation for the Richard episode in the form of like watching these moments that she's referencing. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And for me, Christopher returns kind of stands as a call out for Alice, you know, proposal here that Rory was perhaps using academia, using school as a means to seek acceptance in a world where maybe like she said her conception was quite controversial within the Gilmore family.

17:59 [SPEAKER_00]: but I have to know sparkly heart because I think that in Christopher returns like it's made very evident that this is the first time that she's hearing anything like this. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah that's why Laura licensed her away. [SPEAKER_00]: She's like you go in the other room and you know go away now because I think Laura lie her entire life made sure that worried did not feel like she was anything less than [SPEAKER_00]: smart, talented, et cetera, and listen, kids pick up on things that maybe adults don't want them to see or know.

18:34 [SPEAKER_00]: But I never got the impression from boy that her drive academically had anything to do with Richard. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that it was like born of this need to prove herself. [SPEAKER_00]: Though I do think that the perspective alley officers very fascinating. [SPEAKER_02]: It's so interesting.

18:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, actually really ties into something that I was talking about with Emma Brody on our Gilmour to read episode in June. [SPEAKER_02]: The difference between like unlikable characters in literature and unlikable characters on TV is that it's a lot easier to get on board with them in a novel because you have this experience of their inner monologue.

19:10 [SPEAKER_02]: and their reasons behind thing and like that they the things that they like worry about and what's going on in their mind that I think that if we did have like a character like Rory on the page that she probably would be a lot more like this that like she would think about how like her birth was a burden to the whole family, how it split things apart, how it was [SPEAKER_02]: but it was her and I think that she might contemplate things like that a lot more, that she might consider that like academically if she performs well, it will result in XYZ for her family, but it's not necessarily something that would maybe present itself in conversation because maybe she doesn't want to admit to it.

19:51 [SPEAKER_02]: But there's also ways to do that in the TV show. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know why I called it the TV show. [SPEAKER_02]: That was so strange. [SPEAKER_02]: in like the actual like show that we get like there's ways for worried to talk about that with laying with um love interests in like you know dramatic scenes where you can see them contemplating something to make it evident and obvious that that is the case.

20:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that we think more deeply than these characters were written to be not an insult to the show. [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, I just think that there are probably times when Amy Sherman Paladino is like [SPEAKER_02]: I think these people are analyzing this, like, like, this is my bedroom one night, you know, I mean, like, yeah, I'm not saying that she's not full of depth and not full of a lot of nuance that was I put into her character, but I think that there's often times ways that, like, especially readers and people who really enjoy stories, [SPEAKER_02]: like want to put into these characters or maybe like our own experiences where if we feel like if we outperform someone's disappointment, that we will be enough for them and not be burdeness, which I just I don't feel like Richard ever saw her as the burden.

20:54 [SPEAKER_02]: I think he saw loyalized actions as the burden and it never came back around to worry, being something that they don't approve of, totally, totally. [SPEAKER_02]: He did like come around to her, but I don't think it was ever because he saw her as someone like [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, Lori's a burden in our life.

21:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I do love the thought process, though. [SPEAKER_00]: I do as well. [SPEAKER_00]: I want to pivot and maybe ask a follow-up question, piggybacking off of this, if you think that Laura Li really encouraged her to lean into academia and how smart she was in an effort to prove that she wasn't a complete failure.

21:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Ooh, as a parent. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, but the way that they talk about Rory as a child, genius level, like she was really unnaturally smart, that it wasn't just that she was really good in school, that she was really academically minded, really like, to study. [SPEAKER_02]: It just seemed like she was just really, really smart as a kid.

21:56 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that that probably was something that was attractive to Lorelei, and she wanted to inspire more of it. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think in the back of her mind that, like, you know, like we've mentioned before, two-year-olds, three-year-olds don't just naturally know what Harvard is, they have to be taught.

22:11 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's something that was a conversation early on that, like, in a way, like, of course we talked about this month that Lorei was Richard's Lorelei do over. [SPEAKER_00]: her own duo over a while. [SPEAKER_00]: They're not going to be really interesting. [SPEAKER_02]: Like dang.

22:29 [SPEAKER_02]: She's not going to make the same mistakes that she did. [SPEAKER_00]: Ooh, that's an episode. [SPEAKER_00]: Sure. [SPEAKER_00]: How was Rory and Laura lies own duo over herself? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she was. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think that that's the more obvious. [SPEAKER_00]: path. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that was also kind of, I mean, in the same way that I do think that the intention for the Paladino's was for Rory to be a little bit of a duo over for the Gilmores as a whole, and we haven't even talked about Emily yet, just framed for it from the perspective of Richard.

22:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that the idea of Lorelie wanting more for Rory than she, she had for herself in a myriad of ways, was spelled out pretty clearly. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that was intentional. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, especially like I think to look for Rory's dance, like the fight between Emily and Laura Lye, and then the fight that then came from that from Laura Lye and Rory, after Rory overheard it, like it's very clear that like she didn't want her to make the same mistakes, and that she introduced what's the opposite of you?

23:26 [SPEAKER_02]: However, yeah, like she's trying to, she can't run too far away from what her family wanted, but she's just going to do the other thing that's going to annoy them. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'll still stay in the same realm. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I do think that there is something to be said back to Ali's voicemail about in season four in the incredible sinking lore lies when Roy has to drop that class.

23:46 [SPEAKER_00]: There is something she says about like my grandfather took 18 credits. [SPEAKER_00]: He took five courses. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I should be doing this. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Or he took six courses, whatever it was, and she had to drop to five or four. [SPEAKER_00]: whatever it was she had to draw whatever it was she had to draw yes and that was very shameful for her yeah shame around that so i don't think the alleys completely respected here is off base per se i don't think it started there it may have grown into that though [SPEAKER_02]: I also think that where you hold yourself to like a very high standard and it doesn't always come from her to hold herself to that standard, like in the instance of wanting to go to Harvard.

24:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Her mom introduced that to her and so she was like, and that's what I shall do. [SPEAKER_02]: And then with being at Yale, her really only experience from that wise Richard. [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's like, this is what you did and so I shall do that as well, not to mention the fact that it was probably sorry Richard a lot easier when he was there and it was all men like something's giving like just that time period it probably was a lot easier to take out jail.

24:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, his father was a young man, he was a young man, and not a young woman, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: It's true. [SPEAKER_00]: But I thought this was a really interesting voicemail because I never thought of it this way. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And I know sparkly heart from the seed of it being like I need to prove that I'm worthy, because I don't think that was worries.

25:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Why? [SPEAKER_00]: But maybe it eventually evolved into that being a little bit of a [SPEAKER_02]: because she really, herself up against it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, she really, she really falls apart in the incredible singing lore. [SPEAKER_00]: I think anybody would, but I think that the things that she says is like, I'm failing.

25:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And mine's with it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And like, my grandfather took X amount of courses. [SPEAKER_00]: I should be able to handle it too, and I can't. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and there's something there's a lot of shame that comes along with that, but the the idea of comparing herself to her grandfather is something quite interesting.

25:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I just think that Ali gives the character warrior a lot more depth in this voicemail than she actually has. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, which sounds mean, but it's just like I don't think warriors are very deep character. [SPEAKER_02]: So there was one YouTube comment that I really liked and I'm going to read it.

26:08 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that there's this level of like we have to look at the series as a whole and like even if something that happens later feels like it's just being written to like an earlier part of the season that like didn't really consider that full circle moment that was going to happen or that the writers didn't even really remember that that that that had happened.

26:31 [SPEAKER_02]: And it makes a full circle moment like I think that we can still look at those as being like canon because we can make these connections and even if it was on accident from the writers, I still like the way that they happen. [SPEAKER_02]: One of our besties who commented on always a grandfather never a grand father, they said, I just realized something listening to you in Kill Me Now, Richard is frustrated about going to the club with worry, and he said she'd rather go to the mall and then fast forward to the revival.

26:57 [SPEAKER_02]: In fall, the iconic scene when the war life finally calls Emily and tells her her favorite memory with Richard, which is going to the mall where Richard saves the 13 year old war life after a very bad teen day, they spend a lovely afternoon together and he even covers [SPEAKER_02]: Even Laura likes as he never went to the mall, but he went there that day.

27:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like it's amazing how Richard can't really connect with Lori at this point, and all he can think of is how the only time he bonded with Laura live was in the mall. [SPEAKER_02]: That was probably where Lori would want to go. [SPEAKER_02]: He said, I don't want to go to the mall. [SPEAKER_02]: They go to the golf course as planned, and they connect in a very sweet way, how he couldn't connect with his own daughter, other than the mall day.

27:34 [SPEAKER_02]: And it probably wasn't as intentional as I don't think it was intentional, but I like, [SPEAKER_00]: paralleling it. [SPEAKER_02]: I like paralleling that too that like thinking if that was like a real memory that he was having of this day that he connected before like the mall, thinking like oh he probably wants to go to the mall.

27:50 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to go to the mall. [SPEAKER_02]: And I like like putting that into Richard's mind that early in the series that like this memory was actually there and wasn't just something that they wrote years and years and years later after this episode aired that didn't you have any bearing on it?

28:05 [SPEAKER_02]: But I think that's what I mean about it being a complete story that we can look at it this way, even if it wasn't the attention at the time. [SPEAKER_02]: Even if these things are accidental, I think it's quite fun to make these like full circle, like add some depth to these characters experiences, totally things that happen in the show.

28:22 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that was quite cute. [SPEAKER_02]: I like that. [SPEAKER_00]: That one made me kind of emo. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is very sweet. [SPEAKER_00]: And a really good callback, a really good [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, something that I never really considered. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we talked about this in the Richard episode that his assumption that Roy would rather be at the mall was definitely based on the war lie.

28:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because of who she was. [SPEAKER_00]: But I like, I like, because the mall is more fun. [SPEAKER_00]: So, it was backfully, the mall was way more fun. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: especially for a 16 year old girl. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that connecting it to that moment is fun.

28:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I like it. [SPEAKER_00]: And I love they took the time to write all of that out. [SPEAKER_02]: I just love that y'all listen to these and like have these ideas and want to take the time and let us know what sort of connections and thoughts that you made. [SPEAKER_02]: Even if we don't respond to every single comment, we read all of that.

29:10 [SPEAKER_02]: We do. [SPEAKER_02]: And definitely see nothing about them. [SPEAKER_02]: We talk about them. [SPEAKER_02]: We reference them to each other. [SPEAKER_02]: I just love them. [SPEAKER_02]: I love them so much. [SPEAKER_02]: Also in a lot of the comments people mentioned that they do want a raincoat and recipes versus the Bracebridge dinner Episode I want one of those so badly and I was like okay, so we shall like very interesting that there was a lot of episode recommendations in like boys males and comments another one [SPEAKER_02]: was based off of the townies and like of course we've already done a town meetings one but they were talking about town gatherings.

29:44 [SPEAKER_02]: So like the town like the protestor and then the crosswalk opening. [SPEAKER_02]: But the one that like really made me laugh is that they referenced when everyone into live in that diorama is standing in a circle holding hands as a town gathering. [SPEAKER_00]: Love that episode so much.

30:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So much. [SPEAKER_00]: The funny is county things come out of that episode Taylor and his pecs. [SPEAKER_00]: Still cracks me up. [SPEAKER_00]: We every every time holding on to them Holding on to their hands and that's our goal. [SPEAKER_02]: Rapping Kyle's hook. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, Robert Kyle's hook and I love the current.

30:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's Kirk that's like Luke's peaking. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you're peaking too snitch. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm confused. [SPEAKER_00]: Where's the freckle face boy again? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: I just see it's so good to live in the diorama is low key in underrated episode.

30:34 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so good But I've just loved that idea of like rather than like going through like town meanings or townies and selves But like times the townies like gathered like kind of accidentally or just like strangely like the crosswalk opening Holding hands before they worked at the museum [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, oh my god.

30:53 [SPEAKER_00]: That's really fun. [SPEAKER_00]: You ever did a town events episode? [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we have. [SPEAKER_00]: You know what? [SPEAKER_02]: I think I'd have to ask the admin team. [SPEAKER_00]: Us? [SPEAKER_02]: I would have producers. [SPEAKER_02]: The show producer, me when I'm not on the mic.

31:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure if we done town events because the dance marathon would win. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if it was a contest, but it did. [SPEAKER_00]: But it was. [SPEAKER_00]: It would win. [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if we did some form of them during rankings and rankings is something we want to revisit this year?

31:26 [SPEAKER_00]: We have to. [SPEAKER_00]: So I wonder if we did like a small, because rankings was a huge episode because we did, in fact, kind of hit a lot of different categories. [SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_00]: Rather than doing entire episodes based on them. [SPEAKER_00]: We did kind of expand and pull it those threads a little bit.

31:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just don't remember it's been four years since we it's been 84 years and I could still smell the fresh paint Exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: Shanna had never been used. [SPEAKER_02]: The sheets had never been slept in. [SPEAKER_00]: Hilly's about to do a one-on-one. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a tonic.

31:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So the ship... Everybody buckle up and you have to leave the HHS tapes to tape it on. [SPEAKER_02]: Get ready. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, you guys. [SPEAKER_02]: I love it. [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe so much. [SPEAKER_02]: I can I have to see Titanique. [SPEAKER_02]: This can't become a Titan to be there when we're recording this.

32:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be there tomorrow and so I'm very excited. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, gosh, it's a lot of fun. [SPEAKER_00]: I enjoy such a dream. [SPEAKER_00]: I enjoy it in there. [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I think we'll have to revisit that one because admittedly the way that we approached the podcast then was quite different.

32:22 [SPEAKER_02]: We were just like throw it at the wall throughout everything in there. [SPEAKER_02]: Now, we think about longevity in the sense of like, oh, we probably wouldn't want to talk about all of these things and it would take us 15 hours now to talk about something like that just because we are yapping has just extended and extended so we really just threw everything out there in that episode right I really want to go back and reassess kind of what we had talked about which next week we talk about some episodes that people are desiring in the future and one of them was like kind of revisiting some things like that.

32:49 [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm seeing how we feel about it now, that we have, I don't know, that we talk about it differently, that we think about things a little bit different. [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I also feel like I've learned so much more about the show than I ever could have known.

33:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I've ever could have won 2022, and it was one of those things, no, but I ever could have won it. [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, I've been a costed by the show. [SPEAKER_00]: I am. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's, it's, I've learned so much from you, from our listeners, just from, yeah, doing this for the last four and a half years.

33:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I think it would just be really exciting to revisit that episode. [SPEAKER_00]: See what we ranked, see what our rankings were. [SPEAKER_02]: I usually feel the same way about this episode, and I edited it. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, that's crazy. [SPEAKER_02]: Crazy. [SPEAKER_02]: Crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: But as Haley mentioned, next week's episode is going to be a little summer check-in, a little mid-year check-in, both personally and podcast-related.

33:38 [SPEAKER_00]: We asked you guys some questions about what your favorite episodes have been, what you're excited to see in the fall. [SPEAKER_00]: We're naming our summers as we always do, and I am, I really had a lot of fun recording that episode with you. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Before we go, can I tell you about the Gilmour to read book for July?

33:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Please do! [SPEAKER_02]: In next week's episode, which we, I feel like you guys realized. [SPEAKER_02]: We recorded that one before this one. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this point, I introduced a new segment of Try to Get Tara to read this book. [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like this is another one of those ones that feels like a gaspy sort of vibe.

34:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. [SPEAKER_02]: I recommend another book in that one. [SPEAKER_02]: But in this, for where you read out a follow, we are going to read a book called Spectacular Things by Bectorie Stein. [SPEAKER_02]: And I actually got recommended this book on the podcast by Aman Harry Keya, who also is going to come back on later this year.

34:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And she said this would be perfect for Gilmourkel's fans. [SPEAKER_02]: But I didn't read it until earlier this year. [SPEAKER_02]: And I read it in about two days because I was so hooked. [SPEAKER_02]: But it starts with Mia and Cricket, low who are sisters, both at very monumental moments in their lives.

34:39 [SPEAKER_02]: One is having a baby, a little baby girl, and one is playing in the US soccer match in the 2028 Olympics for the gold medal. [SPEAKER_02]: And this is happening at the same time. [SPEAKER_02]: In the Mia, she is a very traumatic birth and ends up in kidney failure, and so she needs a kidney from Cricket, which would mean that Cricket would [SPEAKER_02]: and her soccer career.

34:59 [SPEAKER_02]: She could not play anymore at the height of her career. [SPEAKER_02]: And so this book starts with Cricket trying to decide if she's going to give a kidney to her sister to save her life. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god. [SPEAKER_02]: And then we immediately go back into the past to figure out why this is a very complicated decision to make and not as straightforward as it sounds.

35:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And it goes back in time and starts with their mother, Liz Lowe. [SPEAKER_02]: who is a promising, very big star on the rise in soccer gets tons of interest from tons of different colleges, but she gets pregnant as a teenage girl runs from her family to a small town because she wants to give her daughter a better life.

35:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Wow, so that's kind of like the that's the start of it and where we're headed to she runs to a small town in Maine New England and so it's just like so perfectly poised. [SPEAKER_02]: It's told in like third person omniscient so you get perspective from all the characters Which feels very gummar girls they're in this quirky small town her mom their mom has a job Trying to support them as a single mom and it also explains how she ends up with a sister But it's literally so good.

36:00 [SPEAKER_02]: I think you would love it the audio and the [SPEAKER_02]: And our backstory sign will be on, I think it can be a book. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but love, that's so cool. [SPEAKER_02]: I think you're like it, I think Emma girls fans are like it. [SPEAKER_02]: I know a lot of people already read it, I love it.

36:13 [SPEAKER_02]: But this is just me trying to pitch books to Tara. [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to call the segment, this is me trying. [SPEAKER_02]: This is me trying to get you to read. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, in parentheses, to get you to read. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: But I love it. [SPEAKER_02]: I think you love it, and so I'm excited.

36:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I know I would. [SPEAKER_00]: It's really just about me sitting down and reading a book. [SPEAKER_00]: We talk a little bit about how I'm on a little bit of an M-Hen kick. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to watch people we meet on vacation, but I have funny story here in my...

36:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Nightstand. [SPEAKER_00]: She also has people who made a vacation on audio. [SPEAKER_00]: I do. [SPEAKER_00]: He'll give it to me as a gift. [SPEAKER_00]: But also I want to read great big beautiful life because that's coming out or that has come out on paperback. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So I have a lot to to read.

36:56 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just really about the lot of material. [SPEAKER_00]: It's really about just opening the book and starting. [SPEAKER_02]: It really so. [SPEAKER_00]: But also the book that you describe in next week's episode feels exciting as well. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: What's also great is spectacular things just came out in paperback as well.

37:10 [SPEAKER_02]: So it feels like very perfect timing to pick it up, read it with the club, head over to Patreon, and you can read with us for free. [SPEAKER_02]: I love it. [SPEAKER_00]: Before we go, I just thought it would be really important to mention that when we're on Riverside and we record, we have to type in our names, sometimes it takes time.

37:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I was waiting for that was like that the whole last episode too was it really oh my god It's been on since I logged on Daily famous Mrs. Logan Hansberger, but I didn't notice until we took a break in between the last episode in this episode and Brett came in and you were your camera was off.

37:41 [SPEAKER_00]: We were yeah, I was pushing on Instagram [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and I looked at the screen and I looked at Brett. [SPEAKER_00]: I think because when we're on, it's in purple and it's at the bottom, it's quite a bit hard to see, but you were, your screen was black. [SPEAKER_00]: So it was clear as day, and I went, oh my god, Haley changed your name to Mrs. Logan Hansberg.

37:59 [SPEAKER_02]: It has been like that since we got on at what time is it like 130? [SPEAKER_02]: So it's been like that for the last four hours. [SPEAKER_02]: Four hours, and you took you that long to notice. [SPEAKER_01]: No. [SPEAKER_02]: Just fun times. [SPEAKER_02]: Let's just go back to being some young girls, summer time, what makes me feel young being a teenager?

38:22 [SPEAKER_00]: This is Logan Hansberger, like it feels like it makes me feel so useful. [SPEAKER_02]: No, but if you look like there's like Zac Efron per se, you know, like Mrs. Efron? [SPEAKER_02]: Efron? [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a god that I was thinking of. [SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe I forgot to tell you about this.

38:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I did kind of tell you about this, but I went to this. [SPEAKER_00]: I did tell you about this. [SPEAKER_00]: I went to this really, really cute, kitchie thrift shop in Green Point Brooklyn. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: And they had those. [SPEAKER_00]: They had, like, bunch of hats and, like, the Mrs. Ashton Kutcher, like, [SPEAKER_00]: All it was like what I was feeling late nineties early 2000 stuff.

38:54 [SPEAKER_00]: It was incredible I forget the name of it or I would give it a shout out because we had so much fun We walked in and there was just a giant cardboard cut out of Britney Spears drinking a Pepsi and I was like I'm gonna please [SPEAKER_00]: I'm here, I'm so cute, oh my gosh, I wish I remember the name, but they had a ton of good stuff.

39:13 [SPEAKER_00]: We will, yeah, because I mean everything they have is so fun, but they had those little bond Dutch hats and purses and Mrs. [SPEAKER_00]: Cooker, and I remember in 2003 that's all I wanted was like a Mrs. Zach Efron. [SPEAKER_02]: I really have been waiting for you to notice it. [SPEAKER_02]: I was going to tell you, but I was like, because it asked me what my name is, you know my name, but now I usually just saw no fills in my name, but somebody said, it does hitera and haily, and I'm like, which is amazing.

39:37 [SPEAKER_02]: But it wouldn't let me in unless I put my name in. [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, okay, well, I'm going to make a new name. [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, that feels fun, what feels summary. [SPEAKER_02]: And I just like immediately, I was like, okay, being [SPEAKER_02]: 13 years old, Mrs. Logan Hansberger took pictures and I love it.

39:53 [SPEAKER_00]: That's so funny. [SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe I just know this. [SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe it. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand for the right episode. [SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_02]: But I want all of you in spirit as you listen to next week's episode to know that my name in this recording session was not haily.

40:06 [SPEAKER_02]: It was Mrs. Logan Hansberger and we'll have more to say on that in the next episode.