Help Wanted for Rory Gilmore’s Career with Iman Hariri-Kia

0:00 [SPEAKER_00]: 5-6-7-8-Rory. [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, everybody. [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to Gilmore to say with Terran Haley. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Terra. [SPEAKER_01]: This is Haley. [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, Haley. [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, Terra. [SPEAKER_00]: Happy birthday. [SPEAKER_00]: We're a Gilmore almost. [SPEAKER_00]: Almost birthday.

0:20 [SPEAKER_01]: What would her birthday be? [SPEAKER_01]: Thursday. [SPEAKER_01]: The 8th. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, no, no, no. [SPEAKER_01]: How old would she be? [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, how old was she last year? [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I believe she was 41 last year. [SPEAKER_01]: I think this is her 42nd birthday.

0:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, 1984. [SPEAKER_01]: shoes for. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Great. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes. [SPEAKER_00]: That makes sense. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Happy 40-second birthday. [SPEAKER_01]: Where you go, Mara? [SPEAKER_01]: That's weird.

0:39 [SPEAKER_01]: That's crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: That's big. [SPEAKER_00]: A big one. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: And that makes sense because she was 32 in the revival. [SPEAKER_00]: It's yours. [SPEAKER_00]: Of course. [SPEAKER_00]: Of course. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: That makes sense. [SPEAKER_00]: See, math.

0:50 [SPEAKER_01]: We've, we've done it and we'll do it again. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Five, six, seven, eight, 42. [SPEAKER_01]: It's true. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, um, we're excited to celebrate Riegel more today by talking about her career trajectory in a way that we haven't before with none other than Aman Hariri Kia who has also been in the throws of being a journalist turned bestselling author.

1:09 [SPEAKER_01]: So she understands. [SPEAKER_01]: which that's a kind of assumption on Vory's part. [SPEAKER_00]: I was going to say that a bond is a best sign. [SPEAKER_01]: We don't know that Vory is, but you know, journalists turn to author. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm very very excited for you guys to hear this conversation today because of course we've had a mon on the podcast.

1:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Now this is her [SPEAKER_01]: third time. [SPEAKER_01]: But first time on Gilmore to say proper, it's not a Gilmore to read episode. [SPEAKER_01]: We really are getting deep into the discussion about Gilmore girls, but of course, Iman has a book coming out and we're really excited for you all to read it.

1:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I really liked it. [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was very sweet. [SPEAKER_01]: It's called once in a timeline and we talk about it a bit at the end of this episode. [SPEAKER_01]: So if you guys are interested, it is going to be available starting next week. [SPEAKER_00]: If y'all haven't listened to the Gilmarch reads with Amman in the past, she talks a lot more about, like she goes a lot more into her history with Gilmarch girls, thoughts on specific topics, because we really more so focus on Voryn's episode, but she was on an April of 2024, and then again, last year in 2025, talking about her other novels, she's written three prior a hundred other girls, which really is more of a deep dive into media.

2:14 [SPEAKER_00]: The most famous girl on the world, female fantasy, which she released last year, and then once in a timeline, which we do [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that if you all feel like you have that sort of trajectory that worried it, where you get kind of fed up with journalism, you will really want to go back and listen to her episodes, and how she turned into an author.

2:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Because I think it's very similar. [SPEAKER_00]: But the first episode with her is called, I'm on Harry Kia as the Wrigamar that we deserve. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I say that's true. [SPEAKER_01]: I'd say that's true. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, but speaking of gummer to read, this is not a gummer to read episode, even though we are talking to an author in this episode.

2:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I do want to tell you what our gummer to read pick will be for October and November. [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to do it for six weeks because I feel like that is a much more sustainable way to maintain the club to give you six weeks to read to give us that time period afterwards to take two weeks off, get the next book club set up.

3:05 [SPEAKER_00]: So, [SPEAKER_00]: for this book club, for this month, that book comes out today, and it's called Bad Words by Riana Robinson. [SPEAKER_00]: This book has been making the rounds for quite some time, because Emily Henry referenced a loving this book on House of Mar, Elona Mars podcast, and so people have been talking about Bad Words for quite some time.

3:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's because it is honestly very, very, [SPEAKER_00]: It is about a book critic, like she's a literary critic for a literary magazine, who absolutely pans and authors first, like his debut novel, and was then assigned to do his second novel and once again hates it. [SPEAKER_00]: So the two of them get into a feud.

3:48 [SPEAKER_00]: But I do have to tell you that this is a romance and those two are the couple in this. [SPEAKER_00]: We get a dual POV kind of getting both of their perspective on the feud and how they slowly start maybe seeing eye to eye in a way that is very unexpected. [SPEAKER_00]: As I made my way through this book, I was like, how on earth, Tara?

4:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like you would relate to this as much as I would. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, could you possibly [SPEAKER_00]: Fall in love with someone who very publicly twice talked about how much they absolutely dislike your work I could and then the interactions that they have and like but the thing about this book is every time I had that like wonder of like how do you get past this so did the characters?

4:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the characters were wondering it too because it's so easy to kind of like be in this contained space in an awful and be like, oh, well I'm very omniscient and I know how each of them feel about this so it's easy to like kind of find that path through of like, oh, I've gotten over it But they kind of don't [SPEAKER_00]: And I loved that.

4:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I loved it. [SPEAKER_00]: It was so messy in their own emotions as we approach the ending of this, which I won't tell you about. [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm really excited to get into it with all of you. [SPEAKER_00]: It is like a true enemy's to lovers. [SPEAKER_00]: These guys are enemies. [SPEAKER_00]: Enemy's turned lovers.

5:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's it's one of those things where like this is one of the qualms I have with you. [SPEAKER_01]: Got mail as I love an enemies to lovers. [SPEAKER_01]: storyline and I love you. [SPEAKER_01]: Got mail actually. [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I'll watch it today. [SPEAKER_01]: that song is gonna hit so good.

5:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, this kind of feels like that because they start emailing each other. [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's how their relationship starts. [SPEAKER_00]: Or like, they're not their relationship. [SPEAKER_00]: Their relationship starts as a feud, but them softening to each other starts via email.

5:28 [SPEAKER_01]: The thing is that I love you got mail up until the bookstore closes and like that's the thing where I'm like, I don't think I could ever get over that. [SPEAKER_00]: You closed my bookstore. [SPEAKER_00]: You closed my bookstore. [SPEAKER_01]: That my mom left me. [SPEAKER_01]: That my mom left me.

5:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And we both said negative things about each other, publicly, like, how do you move on from that? [SPEAKER_01]: So you asking that question poses. [SPEAKER_01]: It like scratches that like a bone. [SPEAKER_01]: I've had to pick with scratches my bone. [SPEAKER_01]: It scratches the bone of the bone.

5:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I have to pick with you, you've got mail. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And the ending there. [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so intrigued, very intrigued. [SPEAKER_00]: It is a little bit of a reverse, you've got mail, [SPEAKER_01]: And then they start emailing and connecting over it. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, um, interesting.

6:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it's a really good character exploration on both parts on from both characters, Selena and from Parker and a lot of family drama. [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, I feel like Selena feels a little bit like a very intense lore lie in the sense that she has kind of a bad relationship with her parents.

6:28 [SPEAKER_00]: more so Paris, I would say that it may be like a soft Paris than more so than an intense lower lie, but she is perceived as being very cold because of the way that she writes, you know, she's known for kind of being a little intense in her criticism, but it also makes a really interesting commentary on why criticism in the arts is...

6:49 [SPEAKER_00]: important, and what it offers for audiences, but it's just so good. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just such a good book, and it was one of those things where I think I got like a hundred pages in, took a little break because I had a lot of other reading that I had to do for the podcast. [SPEAKER_00]: But then when I got back into it, I think I sat down and read like 250 pages in one sitting.

7:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I just couldn't put it down. [SPEAKER_00]: It was that thing of like, I want to stay in this world and like in these two characters' minds, [SPEAKER_00]: but it also have to figure out what happens and where this is taken until ultimately. [SPEAKER_00]: I just if you want to go back, I guess I'm going to have to reread it, but didn't love it.

7:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Very excited to read it with the with the club and excited to talk and have you on the podcast. [SPEAKER_00]: That's fun. [SPEAKER_01]: That'll be fun, I'm excited for you, I can't wait to get into some light reading this one. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you'll you'll love this one. [SPEAKER_00]: You, the writing in this one is impeccable.

7:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Like she is such a good writer. [SPEAKER_00]: This is her adult debut. [SPEAKER_00]: She's written in YA before, but truly just like the craft perspective of this, like sentence level, beautiful. [SPEAKER_00]: You love, we'll love this one. [SPEAKER_00]: This is what the book club is just trying to get territory book.

7:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Just trying to get me married. [SPEAKER_00]: It's true, it's true. [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, speaking of authors, as we mentioned at the beginning of this episode, this is a conversation with Imon Hariri Rikia about Rikilmore and her career trajectory, which we thought was appropriate to celebrate her this way this year.

8:09 [SPEAKER_01]: We've celebrated Rikilmore in many ways. [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, one of the ways we did a couple of years ago was with Amanda Montel, talking about kind of like the Coltish nature of Gilmour Girls and also Rory Gilmour, and interestingly, Emma is now one of the co-hosts on Amanda Montel's podcast.

8:25 [SPEAKER_01]: He sounds like a cult, and so it feels very full circle to have her on today to talk all things Rory Gilmour. [SPEAKER_01]: So without further ado, let's welcome Emma and back to the podcast. [SPEAKER_02]: I am so excited because I am turning 32 next year and I am off of her lower light year.

8:44 [SPEAKER_02]: I have been with I resisted the urge to do my Gilmore Girls rewatch this year because I really want to do it at 32 and see if the character that I relate the most do has shifted because [SPEAKER_02]: As we're going to talk about today, I've had some overlap with Rory, so I've always felt like we were kindred spirits.

9:02 [SPEAKER_02]: But now that I'm 32 and don't know how to shut the fuck up, I'm wondering if before I lies going to be like, my new figurehead. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she could be. [SPEAKER_01]: It's very possible. [SPEAKER_01]: Turning 32 does something to you, especially if you're a Gilmore Girls fan, because if you grew up watching the show, or even if you watched it before the age of 32, you're like, I am now the same age as [SPEAKER_01]: cope with that.

9:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Or do I just lean into it? [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: It kind of made me feel a lot younger. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, I'm so youthful. [SPEAKER_00]: I did make me feel younger, but also like how could you have a 16 year old right now? [SPEAKER_00]: I can barely have a 32 year old that I take care of.

9:36 [SPEAKER_02]: And everyone that you point that out to has an existential crisis. [SPEAKER_02]: Like if you point out to someone that grew up watching Gilmour Girls at their closer at age to lower a lie than they are to Rory, they do exactly what you do at the beginning of the pod. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, they process the temporality of existence and that's great.

9:58 [SPEAKER_02]: You know what we need to do is sync back up Because you guys will obviously be doing this podcast till the end of time when we're actually Emily Gilmore's age Oh my gosh, and we will have a rewatch. [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to check back in. [SPEAKER_01]: I love that. [SPEAKER_00]: I love that we have a plan I do love having a plan isn't it nice to have something look forward to it.

10:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I was just about to say [SPEAKER_00]: next several decades. [SPEAKER_00]: Having something to live for really that really encourages me to wake up every day and so like having something that far in the future. [SPEAKER_00]: Precisely. [SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait to to rejoin us all together.

10:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we'll have our besties. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So everyone listening, let's just say that you have big plans coming up like when we're in our 60s. [SPEAKER_02]: Like [SPEAKER_02]: How old is Emily at the start? [SPEAKER_02]: I think she was in her late 50s. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think she's like 56, maybe.

10:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel good exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: So we haven't been better by around the corner. [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: Perfect. [SPEAKER_01]: Other 25 years around. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, wait, that's so funny because my mom, she was on a plane yesterday and she got back and she goes, I didn't like any of the movies.

10:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So I watched the pilot of Gilmore Girls. [SPEAKER_00]: My mom, who's never seen Gilmore Girls. [SPEAKER_00]: And she said she opened the door and she saw Emily Gilmore and she goes, wow, they really got it right a couple seasons later because she just looked so different. [SPEAKER_00]: costume makeup-wise, even though I'm a little upset for her, but my mom, she was like, I'm about her age and I was like, whoa, I know, weird.

11:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's like the golden girls. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, have you seen those pictures where they'll take the golden girls? [SPEAKER_01]: They'll change their hair and they'll change their hair and I'm like, so real. [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, completely, and I feel like I just got hit with that juxtaposition of what 40 still look like, you know, three, four decades ago, and what 40 looks like now, thanks to the golden era of Botox and Faceless.

11:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, my gosh. [SPEAKER_02]: That said, if we need [SPEAKER_02]: She was, she was like, she was the cryptocurrency group. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she was. [SPEAKER_01]: She really was, she really was. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So that'll be the, what it's funny is she was probably only like 65.

12:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And yet she looked like speaking to like how when we were younger and just like in years past, everybody who was in their 40s, like isn't Steve Martin and father of the Bride supposed to be like 40 years old and yet we all thought he was like 40 was so, so, so old. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's also on graying young too.

12:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Also that. [SPEAKER_01]: but I'm sure she was like 65 or something like insane like that. [SPEAKER_01]: She was only 70 and I look at my mom and I'm like new and tricks. [SPEAKER_02]: Nothing like, well, my mom is both my parents are 70 and I would love to like, I feel like if she watched Gilmore Girls now to see if she related the most.

12:38 [SPEAKER_00]: to dricks. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, what are you talking about? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm worried. [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: I've been looking down on you. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh. [SPEAKER_00]: I love. [SPEAKER_00]: What do you anticipate?

12:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what is your, I guess, why are you waiting until then? [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of maybe like preparing for yourself to be 32. [SPEAKER_02]: I just, I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: I think that there's something kind of magical about sinking up exactly with the show that you watched for so long.

13:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: But I don't know why I'm waiting. [SPEAKER_02]: I was much younger than, then, Rory, what I started watching Gilmour Girls. [SPEAKER_02]: But I feel like I grew into Rory. [SPEAKER_02]: And then I grew out of Rory. [SPEAKER_02]: So maybe I'm waiting to grow in. [SPEAKER_02]: to Lorelei and then grow out of Lorelei.

13:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I also, like, such a big part of Lorelei's character is being a mother. [SPEAKER_02]: And right now I am only mother in the spiritual sense, not the physical sense. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, your mother to forebook. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, at this point. [SPEAKER_02]: Your mother to forebook, it's true.

13:35 [SPEAKER_02]: And God, where they are to birth. [SPEAKER_02]: Anyone who's ever been through labor? [SPEAKER_02]: No, right now just turned off the pod. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: You're not compared. [SPEAKER_01]: You're not compared with my body. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: Surriding that book.

13:48 [SPEAKER_01]: No, but it's it is a labor of love. [SPEAKER_01]: It's labor. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a labor of love. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a matter of time. [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a hard thing to do. [SPEAKER_01]: And that is a part of why we're here to talk. [SPEAKER_01]: with you today, not just because of your upcoming book once in a timeline, which Haley and I both loved, which we'll talk about more at the end of this episode, but also because you are journalist, turn bestselling author, and I feel like that's very worry, Gilmore, and what better way to celebrate worry, Gilmore's birthday this week.

14:13 [SPEAKER_01]: than to have you on the card. [SPEAKER_02]: So welcome back for some kind of tag. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for having me you two are my absolute favorite ladies. [SPEAKER_02]: This is like the best stop on my program every year. [SPEAKER_02]: Please never stop inviting me. [SPEAKER_02]: We want to be happy birthday, Roy.

14:28 [SPEAKER_01]: We are all thinking of you. [SPEAKER_01]: We are, we are, we love our hair. [SPEAKER_01]: You're thinking of her. [SPEAKER_01]: She's on the mind. [SPEAKER_02]: We feel you in this [SPEAKER_00]: several different ways. [SPEAKER_00]: We've actually celebrated her. [SPEAKER_00]: We did an episode called Happy Birthday Lori Gilmour.

14:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody hates you. [SPEAKER_00]: And then we also celebrated her with one of your co-hosts Amanda Montel, one year talking about the cult of Gilmour girls and the impact that Lori Gilmour had on media and the chokehold that she had on so many young girls, including Amanda. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I have to say that when I joined, sounds like a cult as a co-host, I went back and listened to every single episode they ever released because like, Lori, I can't not do my homework.

15:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I am a teacher's pet. [SPEAKER_02]: And when I got to the episode that you two collabed on, I, my jaw dropped. [SPEAKER_02]: It was like, you know, you're in the grocery store and you think you hear [SPEAKER_02]: it was so so wow me yeah I loved that I love that you guys did that episode and it just feels like kismit that I get to come to the party this year I know and love it how long have you been a co-host with Amanda on that show?

15:43 [SPEAKER_02]: I've been a co-host since the [SPEAKER_02]: I love it. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm coming on my one-year anniversary this winter. [SPEAKER_02]: I started working on it in late 2025, but my first episode released. [SPEAKER_02]: And my first episode was romance novels. [SPEAKER_02]: Of course. [SPEAKER_02]: Of course.

16:00 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sitting for this episode. [SPEAKER_02]: And I just been having a blast. [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I've gained [SPEAKER_02]: So much respect for the art of podcasting. [SPEAKER_02]: It is a lot of work, and I think that people make a lot of jokes about Too white men in a microphone. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm a podcast equipment Mark Spenton.

16:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I I really have to say I'm just like blown away by the level of [SPEAKER_02]: tacked and commitment and attention to detail that is put into a fully functional well-oiled podcast. [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm really grateful to Amanda for giving me a lot of opportunity. [SPEAKER_02]: And for you guys.

16:43 [SPEAKER_02]: because you continue getting up every single week and putting in that work so we can all like geeky with you. [SPEAKER_02]: I think you, that means so much because it is, it's hard. [SPEAKER_01]: It's fun to work it, but it's very time-consuming. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I do think when you're able to put on that hat, you develop a different appreciation for it.

17:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was great having Amanda on as Haley mentioned. [SPEAKER_01]: We've celebrated Regalmars birthday in several different ways in the past. [SPEAKER_01]: But I think this is one that I'm most excited for because Regalmars, I mean, we did this episode back in 2023.

17:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Happy birthday, Regalmars, everybody hates you. [SPEAKER_01]: People were kind of up in arms about that because they were like, what do you mean? [SPEAKER_01]: I said, what do you mean? [SPEAKER_01]: What do I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: We're reading comments that you wrote. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I got it.

17:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody criticizes her. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm warning a mirror. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: 100%. [SPEAKER_01]: But I do think a lot of the criticism that has been drawn from Louise character arc stems from a lot of different things, but specifically from her career trajectory as a journalist and everything that led up to a year in the life.

17:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I do think some of the criticism comes from the fact that she slept with a married man and can't blame him for that. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm very excited to have a conversation with you because you had journalistic aspirations, you were a journalist, and then you turned into an author, and I think that that's a very worry Gilmar Path.

18:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So you kind of spoke to this at the beginning of the episode, but what was your relationship with Gilmar Girls? [SPEAKER_01]: Did you feel inspired by worry with your career? [SPEAKER_01]: aspirations to achieve play a role and you're wanting to be a journalist. [SPEAKER_02]: First of all, I want to say a rory, come in the water's warm.

18:26 [SPEAKER_02]: There's room for all of us in romance. [SPEAKER_02]: Come be in my fellow romance novelist. [SPEAKER_02]: But yes, I mean, I have been a long time washer of Gilmore Girls. [SPEAKER_02]: I think I was like six or seven in the first time I saw an episode of Gilmore Girls. [SPEAKER_02]: And [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe I didn't consciously make the connection at the time, but similarly to Rory, she and I both always felt very clear-eyed on wanting to write for a living.

18:56 [SPEAKER_02]: I think we were both categorized as quote-unquote like, serious children, like career-minded, serious children. [SPEAKER_02]: I turned eight and was like, why am I wasting my time on the playground when I have a career to get to? [SPEAKER_01]: Very Paris-Geller of you, too. [SPEAKER_01]: I know.

19:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the difference between me and Paris-Geller is that Paris-Geller could excel in all other subjects, and I found English and said, hmm, one trick, pony, I miss off there. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't mean to learn that. [SPEAKER_02]: To beat science, don't be mad. [SPEAKER_02]: Zero percent, but similarly to Rory, I feel like we just kind of like locked in on what we loved and what we felt like we had to offer from a young age.

19:36 [SPEAKER_02]: I definitely have a strain of perfectionism that runs through me that I feel like lends itself really well to journalism because, um, [SPEAKER_02]: You know, reporting involves a lot of patients, a lot of research and like fact collecting and fine tuning and editing like it's a long process of getting a reported piece from, you know, the ideation stage to the point that it's in print or.

20:03 [SPEAKER_02]: on a website, so it requires just like a complete and utter one track-minded nature. [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel as if Rory and I both exhibited those features, like, at an early age, maybe to our detriment of the points. [SPEAKER_02]: I would say like definitely for me, I'd say probably for Rory.

20:31 [SPEAKER_02]: But you know, then our paths definitely started to diverge a little bit in college and especially post-grad. [SPEAKER_02]: Want to put it on the record that the only married band I've ever touched is my husband, and it's currently married to me. [SPEAKER_02]: Love a fluffy end. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

20:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for putting that on the record. [SPEAKER_02]: We were all very worried that I was going to sex with a wookie, but like, I am, you know, open life is long. [SPEAKER_02]: Life is quite long. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we will give it up for Matthew, because he is also the dedication of once in a timeline as your person in every timeline, which I was like, I'm on.

21:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you selling me for this evening? [SPEAKER_01]: No, it was actually the heart on the outside. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh my god, I love this. [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, I did a tell him about the dedication and I let him discover it when he read the arc for the first time. [SPEAKER_02]: And it was, it was so delicious.

21:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, my mom immediately called me up and was like, [SPEAKER_02]: Another book, no dedication, how long is another book? [SPEAKER_00]: Another one by the dust, um, to she have a book in the works. [SPEAKER_02]: You know what, I want to make sure that when I dedicate a book to my mom, it is like a celebration of mothered auto relationships.

21:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, okay, yeah, so this point. [SPEAKER_02]: Every book that I've ever written kind of features an absentee mother. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think you say that actually this, it's kind of giving Disney a monastic Disney. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm obsessed with siblings, parents. [SPEAKER_02]: I can take your leave on.

22:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, on the page at least, love my parents, shout out my parents. [SPEAKER_02]: You may be listening because you're retired. [SPEAKER_02]: But what are they going to do? [SPEAKER_02]: I have a lot of time on your hands. [SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like if you want to celebrate your mom having that relationship to lower line your 30 second year, maybe something will percolate something will pop up to have a book celebrating your mom, but in the meantime, it was about Matthew and he is your married man.

22:32 [SPEAKER_00]: It's true. [SPEAKER_02]: I have to say that like Matthew was so involved in the creation of this one. [SPEAKER_02]: He's involved in all of my books that he was [SPEAKER_02]: the first person I like were admitted this entire plot to and he was so excited. [SPEAKER_02]: I mentioned this in the acknowledgements but he immediately told me that this was going to be my crowd pleaser and then every time the book came up when it was a work in progress with friends, family, [SPEAKER_02]: So, I really feel like even though him and Noah, they have some similarities, but they aren't really, like, two aligned when it comes to their character arcs.

23:16 [SPEAKER_02]: He just has been like such a champion of once in a time line, and I'm so grateful to him because... [SPEAKER_02]: He always makes me feel so special and supported, even when I may be like too close to see that. [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm a lucky, a lucky doc. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I love that. [SPEAKER_00]: That's also why one of the first episodes that you did with us, I titled it, a Monhurie Kia is the worigom, or we deserve, because no sleeping with married men, unless he gave you the ring that's on your finger.

23:45 [SPEAKER_00]: But also, like the transition from journalism to writing, [SPEAKER_00]: but if you could take us back a little bit to kind of what you were talking about earlier about your path's diverging with worry, you said in college you kind of split there because worries early aspirations and journalism was that she wanted to be a foreign correspondent and that was something that she I think in the second episode she says to headmaster Charleston that that's what she wants but by the time she gets to college and like even in high school she's working in print media that by the time she gets to college it's really focusing on [SPEAKER_00]: the Yale Daily News.

24:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you see that being the case for that character that like she had what it took to be a foreign correspondent or did they take her in the right direction of independent media? [SPEAKER_02]: First of all, I want to be clear. [SPEAKER_02]: Like I have never worked for a newspaper. [SPEAKER_02]: I worked for a literary magazine in general when I was in a college and then I interned at magazines.

24:46 [SPEAKER_02]: I [SPEAKER_02]: interned a lit journal and then I transitioned to working full-time in magazines, always in lifestyle, so our paths in journalism were very distinct and separate, but I do think that the character of worry was doing all the right things in college. [SPEAKER_02]: if she wanted to one day in the distant future become a foreign correspondent, which is she was really learning how a newsroom works, she rose the ranks, you know, entry level reporter to senior reporter, to editor to senior editor to editor and chief.

25:24 [SPEAKER_02]: And she got a, [SPEAKER_02]: prestigious internship working for a daily paper um I think it was this it was a Stanford because yeah Stanford equal oh amazing absolutely true um which an internship that very well could have you know if it didn't lead to a full-time job would have been a great resume builder when she was graduating and looking for a full-time job working for a established [SPEAKER_02]: At that junction, she kind of was on the right track when you consider that she wanted to be the next Christian of import.

26:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Did you feel like she had the right temperament? [SPEAKER_00]: Because that's something that Jess talks about in season two. [SPEAKER_00]: But he just doesn't really see her personality fitting into that line of work. [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think that that's true?

26:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I think the Rory of High School was a very thick skinned. [SPEAKER_02]: I think the Rory that we see in both her original public high school and at Chilton deals with a lot of like social adversity and doesn't allow it to impact her commitment to her work at all. [SPEAKER_02]: It's only really in college where we start to see her thinning as a person.

26:47 [SPEAKER_02]: I want to be careful because I actually believe that like vulnerability makes you a better writer. [SPEAKER_02]: But a first person writing is very very different than news reporting because you have to take yourself out of the subject matter entirely. [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think that Rory Gilmore, as a sophomore and as a junior, had, I hate to sound like the villain of Gilmore girls, what it took at the time, that doesn't mean that [SPEAKER_02]: with through maybe like talk therapy.

27:23 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll like come to Jesus moment. [SPEAKER_02]: She couldn't have like gotten her gumption back. [SPEAKER_02]: But here's the thing, like there are a lot of ecotistical people that work in media. [SPEAKER_02]: and you have to be able to separate the professional from the personal, because a huge, huge, huge, huge part of working as a journalist is rejection and getting a lot of nose.

27:49 [SPEAKER_02]: You've got to persevere and be patient enough to get that one, yes. [SPEAKER_01]: So, [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, speaking to that, I think that it's so important to note that there are a lot of people with a lot of opinions everywhere in the world, but specifically in the arts and in that form of media, and Mitch and Hansberger, like you said, kind of becomes the villain for telling her she doesn't have it.

28:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Not just in her story, but I think to the audience. [SPEAKER_01]: How do you think a conversation like that was for someone in voice position? [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that someone like Mitch and would have sat her down after being kind of like almost like an assistant to him for a shadowing him for a couple of weeks, maybe even months, and then being like, yeah, you don't have what it takes.

28:29 [SPEAKER_02]: When you take into consideration the fact that she was dating his son, [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's very realistic. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Also, you'd be surprised the people that you can get 15 minutes with when you're working in a relatively small newsroom. [SPEAKER_02]: When I was working at Bustle Digital Group, and this was a time in which every single week you would open your phone to a notification of another Maslay off in Digital Media.

29:00 [SPEAKER_02]: I was trying to negotiate a promotion basically, let's say, and I was really having trouble getting through HR, getting through my direct manager, getting through the head of content at my brand. [SPEAKER_02]: And I ended up going to like the chief content officer and asking if I could have 15 minutes on her calendar and she gave it to me and we had the most blunt conversation of my career where she kind of was like considering XYZ why the hell do you think you deserve this and I kind of gave my pitch she looked at me and [SPEAKER_02]: nodded to herself.

29:41 [SPEAKER_02]: And 30 minutes later, I saw her go up the stairs to talk to HR herself. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think you'll be surprised how not often, but like when you have the like jutspa to get in front of the right people, how sometimes like [SPEAKER_02]: They don't have time to bullshit. [SPEAKER_02]: They're like, just gonna give it to you how they see it.

30:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, should there a pinion of you be enough to completely redefine yourself worth? [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so. [SPEAKER_02]: And I do wanna point out that like, [SPEAKER_02]: You were his frontal lobe, wasn't fully developed. [SPEAKER_02]: She was very vulnerable state. [SPEAKER_02]: She was, I think, like, 19 or 20 at the time.

30:24 [SPEAKER_02]: She's trying to use 20, so, like, by all accounts of babies. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I was going to ask you, what point in your career did that happen? [SPEAKER_00]: Were you asked for those 15 minutes? [SPEAKER_00]: I would have been 23 or 24. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_02]: So you're showing young, but...

30:37 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, still young. [SPEAKER_02]: And I was blonde. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was in different ways. [SPEAKER_02]: This was a different time for me. [SPEAKER_02]: And I can't, by the way, going on the record here, be responsible for anything I did or said a well-blog.

30:51 [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, we've never. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my gosh. [SPEAKER_02]: That was the different girl. [SPEAKER_02]: But I do think that like, does it happen every day? [SPEAKER_02]: Like an assistant or an intern or an associate getting in front of any IC? [SPEAKER_02]: No. [SPEAKER_02]: Can it happen if you don't take no for an answer and want to make it happen?

31:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: Is it more likely to happen if you have some kind of like nepotistic reason for being in the office? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: 100% and I don't see how [SPEAKER_02]: dating a Huntsburger doesn't come into play here when it comes to that conversation. [SPEAKER_02]: Or the feedback she was asked.

31:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Because it kind of seemed like in your case you sought that out. [SPEAKER_00]: You wanted to talk to that person. [SPEAKER_00]: Meanwhile, he was like, let's sit down for a second. [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't given you a review yet. [SPEAKER_00]: You don't have what it takes. [SPEAKER_00]: You don't got it.

31:39 [SPEAKER_00]: That it's like it's him coming to her a little bit. [SPEAKER_00]: How I guess if you had your first internship in college. [SPEAKER_00]: And the guy who owned the paper, who was also your boyfriend's dad, sat you down and says, you don't got it, you don't have what it takes to do this. [SPEAKER_00]: What would your reaction to that be?

31:57 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it would make me feel like shit. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't want to defend my teenage self more than she deserves. [SPEAKER_02]: I do feel like I've always had like a very deep sense of self, and also like, [SPEAKER_02]: a practically delusional sense of purpose.

32:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I've always felt incredibly purpose driven when it comes to writing. [SPEAKER_02]: And I do feel like I would have ended up professionally writing in some capacity no matter where the wind had blown me. [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it would, maybe I wouldn't be writing romance. [SPEAKER_02]: I hope I would be there are videos of me at age 12 saying I wanted to write realistic fiction novels.

32:38 [SPEAKER_02]: But I just, I think that, like, I would have found myself in a similar position no matter what. [SPEAKER_02]: And I do want to, like, emphasize that, you know, because I was interested in, you know, a very specific kind of, like, [SPEAKER_02]: first person essay-op-ed writing from a young age.

32:58 [SPEAKER_02]: I spent a lot of my college years, which where I didn't do because she was too busy running a newsroom, like cold pitching, people, and getting rejected or getting a lack of response. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think like that's really good. [SPEAKER_02]: for young aspiring reporters because it kind of makes your skin thicker from a young age and it forces you to have to like refine your craft a little bit and reach out to people for help and say [SPEAKER_02]: how can I get better at this or like what am I missing from this?

33:33 [SPEAKER_02]: I think like part of the reason that Lori took what Mitchum said to heart the size of fact that she was like a 20 year old child like who couldn't drink legally at. [SPEAKER_02]: Like it was because all her life she had been told that she was the exception to the role that she was special, that she was a child prodigy.

33:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Being a wonder-kind starts to mess with your head a little bit. [SPEAKER_02]: I know a lot of people that have been in this position, and when you've been told yes for years and years and years, sometimes that first-know can completely shatter your sense of self. [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I'm really grateful to God in my room.

34:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so many times, I was young and in a way where I wasn't so heavily invested and it was like, through emails. [SPEAKER_00]: So when I cried, it was off camera, kind of thing. [SPEAKER_02]: But I do think like, [SPEAKER_02]: rejection is sometimes good because if you can rebuild yourself in the face of rejection, you come back stronger and harder and thicker and more driven by sense of purpose.

34:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Rory never experienced that. [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm not surprised necessarily that given her mental state at the time. [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, her background and her, her lore, that that conversation with Mitch and was enough to sort of like knock the wind out of her, so yeah, to real her.

34:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: You said before we even mentioned that, you kind of were... [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe like not on Mitchem's side in the sense that like he entered a power imbalance and gave that feedback. [SPEAKER_00]: But more so that like her character was very presenting of not having what it takes to kind of make it where she wanted to be at least at that point in college.

35:19 [SPEAKER_00]: As a writer affection of an aspiring 12-year-old writer of realistic fiction, who has now reached that point, [SPEAKER_02]: What genre is that, you know, she was working on it. [SPEAKER_00]: She had, she was building the foundation of what we've got now. [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think her character could have hated or like that the writer could have added to her character to make it seem more believable?

35:45 [SPEAKER_00]: that she was likely to end up on that path that like she did have to take. [SPEAKER_02]: That like it we would have looked at Mitch and been like you're lying in the show proper or in the reboot in the show proper. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and like in that moment. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think a lot of people offer criticism to raise character in the form of using Mitchum's words almost against her.

36:05 [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, hmm, hot take Mitchum was right. [SPEAKER_01]: She didn't have what it took. [SPEAKER_01]: And we're curious what you think she lacked in her characteristics of anything that made the audience feel that way and if there's something different that Amy and Dan could have put into her character like the ingredients for her character to make it more believable that she did have what it took.

36:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, first of all, I want to be clear. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not necessarily siding with Mitchem. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: I have had a lot of cruel bosses give me mean feedback before and I know that it fucking sucks and means people want to quit. [SPEAKER_02]: I think that like sometimes it's good to receive constructive criticism and I think that Mitchem was like abusing the fact that he knew that [SPEAKER_02]: Rory was insecure about her place within the Huntsberger family, um, to her detriment.

37:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, he knew exactly the role that he played in her life, both as a mentor and as the father of her boyfriend. [SPEAKER_02]: And he wanted her as far away from that family as possible. [SPEAKER_02]: And when they had that conversation, it wasn't purely based on her skill. [SPEAKER_02]: And like, [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

37:16 [SPEAKER_02]: That's, and then that's why I don't agree with Mitchum. [SPEAKER_02]: In terms of like first what could the writers have added to make what happened next more believable, I think if we had seen Rory receiving like more affirmation and praise, [SPEAKER_02]: like leading up to her conversation with Mitchem, it would her complete an utter breakdown, what have like made a little bit more sense.

37:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I think like foreshadowing the fact that her world was about to like kind of tilt off-kilter would have made it so that her going from being an all-star student to being a yelder off-out, like didn't feel like such a [SPEAKER_02]: And what they could have added to make her like survive her conversation with Mitchum is, you know, like not completely immediately like internalizing what happened and refusing to turn to the people around her.

38:17 [SPEAKER_02]: I think the role of season's past, like someone who very much benefited from being a part of the community and like her ability to talk about anything with her mom, like [SPEAKER_02]: relationship problems. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, she was never, even though she was an only child and she was raised by single mom, she was never really alone.

38:40 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think like the character immediately chose to like self-isolate in that moment, even though, you know, she has a boyfriend, she's... [SPEAKER_02]: Lashing out. [SPEAKER_02]: She's not behaving the way she normally does. [SPEAKER_02]: She's not being honest with him about how the feedback impacted her.

38:56 [SPEAKER_02]: She goes to her grandparents, but it's in many ways to like hurt the people closest to her because she doesn't want to have to confront what she's doing. [SPEAKER_02]: Those are the pieces that I feel like, you know, if they wanted to completely change the story and keep Rory's character more consistent, what it made sense because is it realistic for a young girl who [SPEAKER_02]: to freak out when she's told by someone with seniority that she'll never amount to such thing.

39:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that is realistic. [SPEAKER_02]: Is it realistic for her to abandon everything in everyone she's ever worked hard to have or keep in her life? [SPEAKER_02]: I argue that it's a little inconsistent with her character. [SPEAKER_02]: and so much could have been solved if she had opened up and leaned on the people around her instead of immediately self-isolating, self- blaming, forcing herself to shoulder that [SPEAKER_02]: conversation.

39:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think everyone probably could benefit from a bit of talk therapy. [SPEAKER_02]: So that's in thought the truth. [SPEAKER_02]: And we, we know she could have afforded it. [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just gone to her in it for a brief moment where she just kind of fell apart about coffee.

40:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Like the mandated talk therapy session. [SPEAKER_01]: And I do think to your point earlier that like she, this obviously mid-Jum and everything that happens here was a vehicle for her to fall apart and have a moment where she acts out of character because Amy had been setting her character up since the end of season for when she sleeps with Dean to do things that started to feel out of character to further deepen a rift between her and her mom which is her who has always been her north star and who subsequently like when their [SPEAKER_01]: But I do think she does find herself a little bit on the other side of that, having this tenacity that she had kind of lost in herself, um, that she used that rejection, not immediately, but she used it as, like, the, the, the fuel to her fire of the team.

40:57 [SPEAKER_01]: She goes back to the Sanford Eagle because she kind of doesn't know what's montage. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: It just took her a while to get there. [SPEAKER_01]: It took her a really circuitous path to get there. [SPEAKER_01]: I really wonder how they would have carried that through into season 7 because we see her get that back towards the middle of season 6 and then when the writers kind of changed course and of course Amy and Dan left the show, I feel like we didn't get to see the full potential of like who they anticipated were to be what we do see it a little bit.

41:24 [SPEAKER_01]: in the revival. [SPEAKER_01]: And I find it interesting that they had to and chose to use two different opportunities to showcase Rory as someone who kind of loses herself a little bit. [SPEAKER_01]: By the time me into the revival, I'm really curious like what direction you think they should have taken her character in was this realistic for her to kind of hit this age of 32, which we were just talking about the beginning of this episode.

41:49 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like the same age her mom was when we first met her, [SPEAKER_01]: she's had some semblance of success but she doesn't quite know what path to take anymore. [SPEAKER_01]: Did you like that storyline or did you think that did you expect her to be somewhere else? [SPEAKER_02]: I really wish that the struggle that the writers had chosen for Rory had less to do with her [SPEAKER_02]: That media was in at the time.

42:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I think it would have been really interesting to watch her finally get Close to the career. [SPEAKER_02]: She always envisioned only to find out that said career like didn't Exist this in the same way anymore. [SPEAKER_02]: Like it would have been funny to watch [SPEAKER_02]: a successful reporter version of Roy, maybe funny, is the wrong word, but interesting, have to navigate, click, beaty, headlines, and pivots to video, and layoffs, and the fact that reporters are being overstuffed, and ask to write 10 articles a day.

43:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm an user reporter. [SPEAKER_02]: Why am I also reporting on the bachelor? [SPEAKER_02]: would have been interesting because it would have, I think, established a little bit more of a through line with the fire that we see finally lit inside of her towards the end of her final season.

43:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Instead, we have a version of Rory that, like, [SPEAKER_02]: not only seems completely out of touch with the landscape of the industry that she's chosen to enter, but also is sort of like resting on entitlement, which makes her character more grating. [SPEAKER_02]: I think like an aspect of Rory that critics have always had trouble with is like her hesitance [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that that's so heightened in a way that is like no longer interesting and just grading in the revival.

44:00 [SPEAKER_02]: But again, like I don't want to like rewrite the script here, but you can't handle it on it. [SPEAKER_02]: We did a couple of months. [SPEAKER_02]: Actually, you were in the right moment to do so. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm sure anyone who has ever attempted to monetize a writing career was a little bit confused about the fact that Roy could sustain herself on a single article that was published.

44:30 [SPEAKER_02]: six, seven, eight months ago. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it was a talk of the town piece. [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't it was just like a short little one off. [SPEAKER_02]: So I mean assuming that was her first time being published, which was paid per word. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, so she's been, you know, like traveling the world on $500, like I'm confused.

44:51 [SPEAKER_00]: part of your insight that I wanted here in where she's at, and because it's also quite hard because November 2016 being in media and having no real commentary on the landscape of media at the time is a little bit, there's a conundrum, there's some confusion there, but if they want to take a step outside the real world with this show, by on sure.

45:12 [SPEAKER_00]: But at this point in 2016, she's nine year removed from an Ivy League education where she was the editor of an Ivy League [SPEAKER_00]: paper, like she was the editor of the Daily News. [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think it's realistic at that point nine years removed that she has not used any of her connections?

45:29 [SPEAKER_00]: That no one finds that interesting on her resume and that she really only has one talk of the townpiece that Luke put on his menu to show for her nine-year career. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, absolutely not. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's she would have had to just completely take a, you know, eight to ten year hiatus for that to be the entire footnotes of her career.

45:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I think it. [SPEAKER_02]: it makes no sense. [SPEAKER_02]: And like past that, I don't think it really like explains what she's been doing all this time. [SPEAKER_02]: Even if she was working as a freelance writer or reporter, even the act of writing smaller or less impressive one-off pieces, you would have been making connections with editors, [SPEAKER_02]: media is like a small but mighty business people move from brand to brand all the time that would have like expanded her ability to write and what's more is like if that was the foundation of her entire career which again makes no sense because she was working in a newsroom and interested in going into foreign correspondence as a news reporter that would mean that her entire you know

46:40 [SPEAKER_02]: livelihood was based around pitching, but then we see her in a meeting with like the equivalent of a hello giggles and chief, which is deeply unrealistic. [SPEAKER_02]: That's like a single buy line would get her in person pitch meeting with any I see, but you know, I I will just let that go.

47:00 [SPEAKER_02]: But we see her in the meeting like fully unprepared to pitch when we're meant to believe that she's been like freelance writing for years and years and years. [SPEAKER_02]: So I definitely felt like there was a bit of a disconnect there. [SPEAKER_02]: And again, I think like this she is, we run back into [SPEAKER_02]: her resting on her entitlement, which is like, you know, how has she been avoiding everything?

47:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Is she, you know, does she have a trust fund that she's living off of? [SPEAKER_02]: She just moves back home when she is able to afford her apartment or her life on the road anymore. [SPEAKER_02]: And it assumes that everyone is going to accommodate her. [SPEAKER_02]: She also, like, [SPEAKER_02]: believes that because she's been published once, everyone is lucky to be in her presence.

47:50 [SPEAKER_02]: It is baffling when you think too deeply about it. [SPEAKER_01]: Of course. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what we're here to do. [SPEAKER_01]: We always think too deeply about it. [SPEAKER_01]: Because like, what I really sound about, which I love. [SPEAKER_01]: But what I always come back to is that like, the revival itself.

48:03 [SPEAKER_01]: did kind of treat the characters in the world inside of it like only a couple of months had passed or maybe like a year had passed. [SPEAKER_01]: We really were picking up right where we left off. [SPEAKER_01]: And I know that that had a lot to do with Dan and Amy, the creators of the show not being involved in season seven of it.

48:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So of course like they are only [SPEAKER_01]: where they left these characters, they basically just kind of froze them in time and picked them up right where they left off. [SPEAKER_01]: What do you mean Laura Lyon, Luke, or just now talking about having kids? [SPEAKER_01]: What do you mean they haven't gotten married?

48:34 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you mean where you go more has published this talk of the townpiece and it's all she's really done for the last five years? [SPEAKER_01]: I think it is a little unrealistic in its essence here in the life, which is what makes it hard to kind of talk about because we know why it's so unrealistic from a, like, you know, from the purview of just production.

48:51 [SPEAKER_01]: But all of that said, I really wonder if, you know, worry was truly just like living off of her trust fund, expecting that one day something was going to happen. [SPEAKER_01]: And when the talk of the time he's does, it's like, okay, good. [SPEAKER_01]: I can hang my hat on this. [SPEAKER_02]: And if that is the case, that is true of some people.

49:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly, you know, you know, we've, you know, we've all been there. [SPEAKER_01]: But I do think that the, I do think that it was Amy's goal to kind of present worry as this person who was like you said a child prodigy, someone who was uplifted in her town, endlessly uplifted by her family, her grandparents.

49:28 [SPEAKER_01]: endlessly only to kind of turn up nine years later and be one of those people who comes home, like from, you know, who comes back to their hometown with having so much promise and almost not being able to fulfill that when she decides to make the pivot into writing her book [SPEAKER_01]: at the suggestion from Jess Mariano, do you think that's a realistic pivot for her?

49:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think she's someone who would fare better in the world of writing realistic fiction? [SPEAKER_00]: Or she seems to get in sort of a memoir situation? [SPEAKER_01]: Or a memoir? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, do you see her being that in the face of not quite being able to make that transition into journalism in 2016?

50:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I will say it is, I am living proof of the fact that it is deeply realistic because, of course, try to pivot your career as a reporter and to a career as a novelist. [SPEAKER_02]: I know plenty of us who have done so, including my co-host, Amanda Montel is working on her first novel right now and she used to work as a...

50:31 [SPEAKER_02]: as a beauty editor, but I will say that I think like the part that is perhaps slightly more unrealistic is that I don't write in fiction, so I'm like hesitant to make this claim, but I think it is challenging to sell a memoir when people don't know who you are and aren't really positive why they should like care about your story.

50:57 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that if it is like intensely well written and like the best things in sliced bread, maybe an editor will be interested, but memoir is notoriously difficult to sell, especially because the genre is dominated by like celebrities and politicians and wealthy people. [SPEAKER_02]: So like a question that I've been [SPEAKER_02]: having, you know, brought into conversation a lot over the past six months is like, would strangers have been published if Bell Burton wasn't, you know, a descendant of the Vanderbilt.

51:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, with that story, have been as interesting. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, if she wasn't from such a prolific family, and, you know, wasn't connected to such large pools of wealth, would it have even, like, gotten in front of the editor? [SPEAKER_02]: Then, [SPEAKER_02]: It was supposed to get, if or no, because technically Bellburn is someone that's been published once and then told a memoir.

51:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: The difference being that, like, she was in the society pages, but, you know, maybe Rory has been in the society pages last 10 years. [SPEAKER_02]: I have no idea what she's been up to. [SPEAKER_02]: She was following Obama and then something happened. [SPEAKER_00]: And then something happened there.

52:13 [SPEAKER_00]: They forgot her at one of the stops and she couldn't catch up. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's, and she just, like, stalled for a decade, I guess. [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, you saying that though, like, not to, like, go into, like, a fan fiction segment of this episode. [SPEAKER_00]: That was not at all planned.

52:28 [SPEAKER_00]: But the way that you're talking about that would actually be so fascinating, because you've given me so many ideas for rewriting the revival. [SPEAKER_00]: One of them being that Rory, who everyone always said she would succeed. [SPEAKER_00]: has come against like a David versus Goliath situation if you can be the best that you could be, but if the industry is changing in such a way that you don't fit in it anymore, it's just like not going to work for you, so you have to pivot exactly.

52:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And then her writing a story, she's trying to raise a story about her mom and her relationship, but ultimately it's memoir ask because it's from her point of view. [SPEAKER_00]: In the bellbird in situation of like, [SPEAKER_00]: ultimately re-success in her writing comes from the thing that her mom wanted her to avoid to begin with.

53:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I think that there's a really interesting dynamic there at play to be like, I didn't make it doing what I always said I would do and now you have to pivot and my success of it is coming from something that my mother has always resented and like my story about my mother. [SPEAKER_00]: hating society is being aided because like I have been of society not to say the Gilmore name is anywhere near the Vanderbilt's.

53:34 [SPEAKER_00]: No, but that's a fantastic idea. [SPEAKER_01]: It's I'm feeling I think something that would have excited viewers more than just worry inexplicably having had done very little in that like in between when we [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the revival. [SPEAKER_01]: Like I think it would have been to your point amount so much more interesting that she can't keep up with the technological shift.

53:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Like when your job feels like it no longer exists as you know it. [SPEAKER_02]: I think it would have been so funny for like, [SPEAKER_02]: a well-respected, well-seasoned senior reporter, version of Rory, who ran a newsroom, gets the news that her physical paper is folding and everything's turning digital.

54:18 [SPEAKER_02]: And now they need to hire kids to learn how to post news alerts on Twitter. [SPEAKER_02]: And she's expected to, you know, use search engine optimization. [SPEAKER_02]: And like, [SPEAKER_02]: And don't think I haven't had the thought that, like, if we kept the reboot going, Rory Gilmore would be writing the most insufferable subsdack known to me.

54:41 [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's, and it's, it's just, it's so true. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think we're surviving an environment like that, but at least then, you know, the character of Rory, her arc, her, you know, her victory towards the out of the, the show. [SPEAKER_02]: it would check out a little bit more, we still get to see someone who has always been a wonder-kind flounder.

55:03 [SPEAKER_02]: We still need to see someone who, like, they finally got what they wanted, but it's not how they imagined not to put a little bit of your rugby go accidentally. [SPEAKER_00]: We need to sometimes. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think like something that I explore a lot in a hundred other girls is like, you know, sometimes when you get your dream job, you realize it's a nightmare and like ultimately there is no such thing as a dream job because work will never love you back.

55:26 [SPEAKER_02]: And like your career's in enough to sustain you. [SPEAKER_02]: And someone as career focused, as Rory, like that would be an interesting enough tension to watch. [SPEAKER_02]: So good. [SPEAKER_02]: For her to realize, oh my god, all I've ever wanted was to be this foreign, foreign respondents, to correspondants, correspondants, to lead a newsroom, to see my path to success realize.

55:48 [SPEAKER_02]: But it's not making me happy. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't like what's happening of the industry. [SPEAKER_02]: And then it opens up, [SPEAKER_02]: whole category of interesting block developments for her in Logan and her in jazz. [SPEAKER_02]: And that would have been, you know, fast, I would have loved to see her, you know, have to go to just about the fact that she wanted to write a book.

56:08 [SPEAKER_02]: And like, maybe there's an interesting tension about Rory using her privilege to get published, whereas just like, you know, had to build his career from nothing. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, that all is so ripe. [SPEAKER_02]: And then, you know, I'm like, this is seven reboots later, [SPEAKER_02]: And also, like, I think Laura lies reaction to the, and Emily's reaction to the fact that Rory would have to, like, mine family secrets and private matters for the Spemwar, that would make both of them deeply uncomfortable.

56:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, there's no way Laura likes her, you know, her privilege and her, I mean, extremely tumultuous relationship with her parents, like blasted [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, the front page of memoir and one thing about like anyone that's old school and derived of old money, they're deeply private people.

57:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Like they don't want their business shared with the world and [SPEAKER_02]: that would have been fascinating too, like the tension between Rory having to like profit on something that she said you would never rest her laurels on exactly what you were saying, Hayley, like all of this still allows for the tension that Amy Sherman, Paladino, wanted to explore in terms of like Rory having to break away from the mold that she's always [SPEAKER_02]: throughout the course of the show, but it wouldn't completely break with her characterization, her personhood, and also just like, I need to keep returning to this.

57:46 [SPEAKER_02]: It would make sense. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't even attempt to explain what's been half of my career. [SPEAKER_02]: It's and blinders. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't take that long. [SPEAKER_02]: to write a New Yorker page. [SPEAKER_02]: Like I, it's just, it's not a talk of the town.

58:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's, it's, it just doesn't check out. [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't really make sense. [SPEAKER_00]: It also, it fits on the back of Luke's menu. [SPEAKER_00]: It can't be that long. [SPEAKER_00]: It can't be long. [SPEAKER_00]: It can't be long. [SPEAKER_00]: She can't have sustained much on the top of the town.

58:15 [SPEAKER_00]: There wasn't much talk on the top of the town. [SPEAKER_00]: No one talked that much about it. [SPEAKER_00]: No one talked that much. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, it would have been more sense if she was like a successful career woman, her industry is falling apart. [SPEAKER_02]: She's so frustrated.

58:29 [SPEAKER_02]: She's lost touch with why she wanted to be a journalist in the first place. [SPEAKER_02]: And then she leaves everything behind to reboot her town's local newspaper, which happens in the revival anyway. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And like, through doing that, she realized that her career is not enough to make her happy.

58:45 [SPEAKER_02]: that's what leads to the, like, that part's true, there's so much of it that can work. [SPEAKER_00]: Because what you were saying also about the difference between fiction and nonfiction is like, the fiction when you're pitching it, you have to have the full manuscript, like, ready to send with nonfiction, you get an agent based on pitching.

59:03 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like your potential. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So it, like, seems like it would fit very well into her need for, like, because her career's kind of stalling. [SPEAKER_00]: She does reach out to Mitchum because she runs into him once when she's with Logan and he connects her with Kondeynast.

59:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it would be so much more interesting if she needed Mitchum to connect her with someone for her nonfiction. [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, she's prepared for the Kondeynast meeting. [SPEAKER_02]: She does her homework, which we're like a leader. [SPEAKER_00]: We're thinking for like an article to like write about lines, which when Crowley Fortune, your friend and fellow former journalist was on a topic.

59:45 [SPEAKER_00]: She said, that's not a topic that content asked would give out lines, lines. [SPEAKER_02]: Although New York Magazine did have a, a piece of article and line waiting really, really, that's so funny. [SPEAKER_01]: So it was ahead of its time. [SPEAKER_01]: They said, [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the cut is calling or you're like, you must the cut is calling.

1:00:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yeah, it's just the whole thing is really, really funny to conceive. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, just even the idea that she'd be having these in-person meetings is like so. [SPEAKER_02]: unfortunately unrelatable. [SPEAKER_02]: But I do think like one of the reasons I have subtly touched on like the the status of the media industry for all four in all four of my books is because like I do think that this is a career that is like heavily evolving because of technology a lot of [SPEAKER_02]: but written in 2019 talks about the pivot to digital and search engine optimization and the ways in which people working for the personal essay boom were encouraged to exploit their identity for profit for clicks.

1:01:06 [SPEAKER_02]: All of those topics are moved point now because of [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, and unfortunately, I know you hate to say it, but like SEO doesn't exist anymore because of artificial intelligence. [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's, this is a fast-moving industry and because of that, I do believe like there would have been enough to sustain Roy's play for another like 10 years.

1:01:33 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, plot twist 2026 Kilmer Girls. [SPEAKER_02]: Rory Gilmore's book deal cancelled. [SPEAKER_02]: He was like, he used of using Claude for graph. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, my old Claude is just her boyfriend. [SPEAKER_00]: She forgot about it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Meanwhile, Claude was the wookie.

1:01:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Claude got away. [SPEAKER_00]: Claude is Kirk. [SPEAKER_01]: Did you find yourself when you were watching, so I imagine when you were watching this, so this was 10 years ago, you were still working in journalism. [SPEAKER_01]: Did you find yourself really disappointed when you watched The Revival?

1:02:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I mostly just found myself confused, um, I was just so fast. [SPEAKER_02]: When the arrival came out, I was really excited because, uh, more Gilmore girls was always a good thing. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but I think, like you said, they really tried to pick up where they left off, but [SPEAKER_02]: the physical signs of aging were so apparent on all of the characters and it just didn't work.

1:02:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Like whatever was happening with Luke's like hair transplant or to pay like it wasn't giving what they thought it was all of the content. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there were multiple, multiple characters in that show where I had to do a double take. [SPEAKER_02]: Like is that [SPEAKER_02]: them even, which is fair.

1:02:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Like you have a age, but let's even the storyline too. [SPEAKER_02]: That's my exact point. [SPEAKER_02]: You can't ignore the fact that like people have physically grown and then try to imagine that they haven't emotionally or, you know, mentally grown alongside that. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

1:03:01 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that there would have been a very different intriguing show that could have been said. [SPEAKER_02]: And I know that we wanted to see Laura lie and we could get married on screen, but putting them in like a 10 year situation ship like didn't really do it for me either. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but yeah, you're not alone in that a lot of people felt that way though, their wedding was very sweet to watch.

1:03:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure. [SPEAKER_01]: I've been a flashback. [SPEAKER_01]: I love a flashback. [SPEAKER_02]: I love a flashback. [SPEAKER_02]: 100%. [SPEAKER_02]: We're not even talking about the baby of it all. [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like we all just evenly decided to black out like the last.

1:03:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Logan spades of the show because you know what what were they going for there you think like what the the cycle is repeating itself 100% she wanted this like she always wanted it to be about that about like history repeating itself but also about the relationship between mother and daughter and the assumption is that we're about to have a daughter.

1:04:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And we always talk about this, how Amy, you know, whenever she talks about Rory and the boyfriends and everything, she's like, it's not about the boyfriends. [SPEAKER_01]: It's about Rory and it's about, you know, especially with the revival she was about. [SPEAKER_01]: It's she said it was about her career and like where she was at.

1:04:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, well, I wish that more emphasis had been put on that because we really did focus a lot on the boyfriends. [SPEAKER_00]: They were actually, it was, I forget the publication, but she gave an interview talking about how the lead up to the revival. [SPEAKER_00]: And it hadn't come out yet in 2016.

1:04:29 [SPEAKER_00]: It was talking about how everyone's focused on the boyfriend, what boyfriend's going to be in her life, her love life, but no one's asking about her career. [SPEAKER_00]: No one's asking if she'd been nominated for a Pulitzer Prize. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that was the, that was the quote that really stuck out to me because I was like, oh, we should be focused on her career.

1:04:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we get to the revival. [SPEAKER_01]: I wonder where the career is, the career is not in the room with us, but I understand, like I think it's really, I love the naming is like, why are we so focused on the boyfriend's like, come on, let's like, let's focus on these women in their relationship because that is the heart of the show, right, like the heart of the show is the Gilmore girls, it's [SPEAKER_01]: But that said, you know, what was presented in the revival, I do think that at the time and beyond has kind of let people down a little bit.

1:05:22 [SPEAKER_02]: What was their revival 2016? [SPEAKER_02]: We're coming up [SPEAKER_02]: 10 right now 10 10 and safe to assume it's a girl lower-line on Spirgr. [SPEAKER_02]: I Got what she was going for what I don't know if the message was received or landed because there's no payoff for [SPEAKER_02]: for these characters.

1:05:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I will say going back to the beginning of our episode that you're going to start your rewatch next year because you're going to be 32. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like the full circle moment that was handed to them via circumstances of the revival was that Rory was 32. [SPEAKER_00]: and to create sort of some sort of relationship with lower lies, beginnings, rather than lower lies, move into motherhood, like being a mother to worry that I think that's kind of starting her full circle moment with lower light being 32 when we first see her and now revisting worry when she's 32 could have been quite interesting, but I think that we can all kind of agree and now that we've had a real journalist to answer to these questions.

1:06:32 [SPEAKER_00]: that we can kind of all come to the conclusion that maybe having a journalist in the room with them to drop some hints and ideas about the state of the union, if you will, of the media industry. [SPEAKER_01]: I think that would have been really helpful and who knows maybe they did, but yeah.

1:06:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I just don't necessarily note they stuck the landing in the way that they could have had they really dug into what a journalist who was on Roy's path by the time the original series came to an end where she would have been in her life by the time we see her. [SPEAKER_00]: And I know a lot of people relate to her.

1:07:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Like with the idea of like I wanted to be like not me, but like talking about like the royal eye of like I wanted to be a journalist and I couldn't make it work until I related to Roy in that way. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think there's a lot of projection into her storyline of like maybe if it had been a little bit more realistic of like the changing landscape of media that would have been able to see yourself a lot more in it, especially in the year 2016, growing up with Roy, the however you saw yourself in Roy or not, I think it would have been [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, answer to in a lot of ways.

1:07:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: To be clear like my critique of Rory has nothing to do with the fact that she came up short. [SPEAKER_02]: It's more so that we don't really yet to see her journey or her path to getting there. [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. [SPEAKER_01]: We agree. [SPEAKER_01]: One half.

1:07:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think anybody, I mean, like there are people out there who criticize her like, you would so much promise and you had so much this and so much privilege and so much opportunity and like this is where you're at. [SPEAKER_01]: And I can, I can understand that to a certain degree.

1:07:59 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think that the related ability factor of Reubing the kind of person who did have so much promise, who did have a lot going for her, and ultimately kind of hits this point at 32, where she's like, I don't know who I want to be when I grow up. [SPEAKER_01]: It is very relatable. [SPEAKER_02]: I think like there is nothing more realistic than, you know, hyper-fixating on a dream your entire life, and then realizing it's actually more healthy for you to walk away or to set it free.

1:08:25 [SPEAKER_02]: think like reframing the story as like quitting doesn't mean giving up. [SPEAKER_02]: Like walking away as can be a show of strength instead of weakness is actually like a really empowering message for anyone who you know has dreamed of being a journalist or has dreamed of any kind of [SPEAKER_02]: career success that they realize like aspiring to it in reality is making them miserable.

1:08:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So I would have fully supported an arc like that. [SPEAKER_02]: I just think that in order for it to feel earned, we actually need to see this struggle. [SPEAKER_02]: We got to see this phase. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: But speaking of people having a difficult time, seeing the struggle, implementing the struggle, especially seeing [SPEAKER_01]: kind of pretend like everything is okay when it's not.

1:09:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like that idea was very, very deeply and very well executed and explored with the protagonist in your book once in a timeline with Lyra, which is coming out next week by the time this episode airs. [SPEAKER_01]: So tell us tell our audience at home about once in a timeline. [SPEAKER_02]: I would be so delighted too, and please let me just say you two are the cleans of transition.

1:09:38 [SPEAKER_02]: But I have beard, off track, and you have fully hold me back on this frame. [SPEAKER_00]: Just grab you by the orange. [SPEAKER_02]: We're here to do. [SPEAKER_02]: Wow, true professionals, chefs kiss, I would love to talk about once in a timeline, because I do think that there are some really interesting connections to be made.

1:09:56 [SPEAKER_02]: So in order to talk about once in a timeline, which I am for any visual viewers holding right here in my hands, [SPEAKER_02]: I want to first speak a little bit on how I got the idea to write the stories. [SPEAKER_01]: I have a question. [SPEAKER_01]: Love it. [SPEAKER_02]: I do think it makes the plot even richer.

1:10:19 [SPEAKER_02]: So I got the idea for once in a timeline when I was writing the New York City Subway and, you know, [SPEAKER_02]: Loan behold surprised the prize. [SPEAKER_02]: We run it to train traffic and the train is stalled. [SPEAKER_00]: No way 20 minutes. [SPEAKER_00]: That's so unusual. [SPEAKER_02]: That's what happened.

1:10:39 [SPEAKER_02]: The MTA is perfect. [SPEAKER_02]: She's so reliable. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: At the time, I had sort of been absent-mindedly scrolling on my phone. [SPEAKER_02]: And when we lost service, I found myself watching the same creators day in the lifelog over and over and over again for the entire 20 minutes and I could have clicked away, but I felt so transfixed.

1:11:05 [SPEAKER_02]: It was almost like she and I existed in our own wormhole, in our own space-time continuum, and I could not look away if I tried. [SPEAKER_02]: The train started moving again, the lights flicker on, be regain service, like my [SPEAKER_02]: my sort of Saul Paul moment suspense into thin air and the concept for the book hit me like lightning and I wrote down the entire plot which almost verbatim is what's on the page.

1:11:38 [SPEAKER_02]: in my notes app and ran home to tell my husband. [SPEAKER_02]: So it was it was one of those true lightning and a bottle moments. [SPEAKER_02]: So what is once in a time line about once in a timeline is a groundhog's day novel about an aspiring influencer who finds herself stuck [SPEAKER_02]: in the actual algorithm and is forced to live her quote-unquote perfect day in the life over and over and over again in an endless infinite type loop.

1:12:09 [SPEAKER_02]: But when a sexy but mysterious always [SPEAKER_02]: starts asking questions and reports that he has the key to breaking free. [SPEAKER_02]: That's when she starts to notice the world around her begin to glitch. [SPEAKER_02]: It is like such a [SPEAKER_02]: But funny, satirical, campy, topical novel, it is devastating and romantic and like deeply, deeply moving and emotional, but it also I hope will make you think a little bit more critically about the ways in which we show up online, the kinds of content we consume.

1:12:58 [SPEAKER_02]: And also the judgments we passed on strangers because we're all just trying to get by and survive the day to day. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so obsessed with it. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so in love with it. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like twisty and funny and like sweet. [SPEAKER_02]: It's just, it's like the biggest genre vendor I've written yet.

1:13:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm so excited for... [SPEAKER_02]: every single one of the listeners and they will to pick it up and read it so we can finally scream about it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, oh my god, there are so many things I want to scream about it here on the recording, but I can't because of course it doesn't come out till next week, but I love how much you love this story and the way that you talk about it, the way you light up when you talk about it is so important to me because it's like the person writing it doesn't love it.

1:13:45 [SPEAKER_01]: How am I gonna love it? [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much. [SPEAKER_02]: I love all of my books, but I really feel like I've started like leading with joy since making the switch to romance. [SPEAKER_02]: Female fantasy, my previous novel was [SPEAKER_02]: such an exploration of joy for me and an expression of joy for me and I feel like that joy just left off of the page and I think that with once in a timeline there's like a tender intentionality that makes its way clear like the perspective.

1:14:24 [SPEAKER_02]: is very succinct and direct in a way that I'm so deeply proud of, and I think that becoming a full-time romance author has really allowed me to write books that feel like a celebration rather than, I don't know, a lecture, and it's just, it is the best, best-best feeling I'm so grateful to do what I do.

1:14:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I wouldn't say that any of your books feel like a lecture, like going back to like the most famous girl in the world. [SPEAKER_00]: Really what it taught me about you is like always be on your toes. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm insane. [SPEAKER_00]: You always have to be on your toes because after reading the most famous girl in the world, there's like a twist in that, which telling you those are twist, you will not expect it, even if me telling you that.

1:15:10 [SPEAKER_01]: That after that I was like, okay, we're not safe. [SPEAKER_01]: No one's safe in an amount of time. [SPEAKER_01]: We're not safe anymore. [SPEAKER_00]: that like even as I've been touring into female fantasy which like still like one of my top favorite books last year I adored female fantasy maybe because I read it when I was in pool which is where you need to read a book that kind of is like a girl in the series.

1:15:28 [SPEAKER_00]: But and that one I still was like we're not safe and we weren't but I think with the romance genre there's like a hug that you get in that sort of light at the end of the house. [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly and I felt that with once in a time line that I was like [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what's going on and I'm making a list and I'm crossing things off every other chapter because now I'm just suspicious.

1:15:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm suspicious of a month and I was like okay that's not that I was just trying to I was trying to re-to deeply into it but when you get to the end of course you don't know what's happening because like you the kind of the explanation of where we are and what's happening didn't see a comment.

1:16:07 [SPEAKER_00]: shocked. [SPEAKER_02]: Can I just say I think first of all, thank you. [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe lectures are wrong word. [SPEAKER_02]: I just think that before female fantasy, I really felt like I had something to prove. [SPEAKER_02]: And [SPEAKER_02]: I think you could just tell when you read female fantasy that I like stopped caring about when everyone else thinks the expectations blew out the window.

1:16:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm into the ocean. [SPEAKER_02]: But I do think it's like when I wrote a hundred other girls, I wanted to write a book that everyone loves. [SPEAKER_02]: And when I wrote the most famous girl in the world, I really didn't care about who I was going to stop with female fantasy. [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, okay.

1:16:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this one is for me, and it just it felt that way, and it felt like just such a, I mean, it felt like 400 pages of me getting on my soapbox and talking about my favorite subject. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Once in a timeline, similarly, I just, I don't know, I guess I unlocked something inside of me where I just feel a lot more liberated, and I think that that gives [SPEAKER_02]: an author like a license to like exhale and let go a little bit on the page, which is just so so lovely.

1:17:20 [SPEAKER_02]: But I want to be clear. [SPEAKER_02]: I love the most famous girl in the world. [SPEAKER_02]: I was literally just telling, I actually say this a lot. [SPEAKER_02]: Like [SPEAKER_02]: When I meet someone that loves the most famous girl in the world, I'm like, they're a different level of greener to be like people that love most famous girl are my like, day one and real ones.

1:17:38 [SPEAKER_02]: And so many people found me through female fantasy, which I'm grateful for. [SPEAKER_02]: posting this girl in the world pushes a lot of the conventions inside of you feel be able to see faster limits. [SPEAKER_02]: And I love that book. [SPEAKER_02]: I love that. [SPEAKER_02]: It was sort of like my middle finger like [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to write whatever the fuck I want to write, and she did fabulous.

1:18:10 [SPEAKER_02]: So I love, you know, just the other day I was leaving my friend, Lila's event, and there was a line already forming outside. [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, hi, do a few readers, and then one person stopped me and said, I must tell you, I love the most famous girl in the world. [SPEAKER_02]: And I, like, literally did the equivalent of dropping my coffee on the ground.

1:18:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, did a double take, and I was like, [SPEAKER_02]: You're a freak like me and that's that makes me happy other than anything. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I do think that there's there's a softness that exists inside of what's in a time-plighted female fantasy that I need to stand down my edges to get to yeah that doesn't exist inside the character of Rose is still [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't say so at all.

1:18:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And I wouldn't want her any other way. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want that for her. [SPEAKER_00]: We don't need to be soft. [SPEAKER_00]: We need her to be like an absolute, like a dirty and messy, and absolutely. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I guess the only thing that makes me angry about that is that there's no sequel to that because I know them on.

1:19:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I know. [SPEAKER_02]: I know. [SPEAKER_02]: And it's so out of my control, I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: I will say, I don't know how much I can say. [SPEAKER_02]: but there is something in the works to explore where the story goes further in a different format. [SPEAKER_02]: Is what I will say.

1:19:34 [SPEAKER_02]: So everyone needs to knock on some wood that that ends up working out for all of us. [SPEAKER_00]: I have so many theories. [SPEAKER_00]: All of the sudden of this thing I learned one moment ago. [SPEAKER_00]: The moment you start talking theories were being born in my mind and I'm going to have to explore those with you off the microphone because no, truly that was like one of my favorite endings of a book that I've read and quite some time so much so that I think I like sent you the reaction that I had when I [SPEAKER_02]: And it was the best video I've ever, I said to my mom.

1:20:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm going to have a family chat. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but what I did to this girl, to this woman, no. [SPEAKER_02]: I know, my second twisted mind, I love it. [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's, I want to be clear. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, there is a lot of the pieces of what past readers I think have found to be [SPEAKER_02]: like unique and fresh in my books exist inside of one sort of timeline.

1:20:32 [SPEAKER_02]: There's satire, there's humor, there's a big plot twist, it's topical, like it's in conversation with the zeitgeist. [SPEAKER_02]: The only warning flag that I will put up is that it is, [SPEAKER_02]: sadder than previous books that I've written. [SPEAKER_02]: I would say so. [SPEAKER_02]: In a big way, which I'm not necessarily unintentional, but I surprised myself by how heart-breaking moments of this book are.

1:21:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so much so that when I finished writing the first draft, [SPEAKER_02]: Panics a little bit because I thought to myself like, oh, this is too sad like this is not as funny as I You're like myself. [SPEAKER_00]: We can't laugh at some of these scenes at all this and anyone know humor to be found in like at least four or five Yeah, I'm I'm thinking of a Noah specific scene There's a place that they go to yes, and oh my gosh, oh when we went there I was like [SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of readers have responded to that really strongly and I am so grateful that they have picked up, because it's not necessarily spelled out for the audience what it means that we go to that place and see it right before the time loop ends.

1:21:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I'm spoiling things, but it's like we experience something before we find out what happened. [SPEAKER_02]: And I do think that it won really colors what Noah has been going through quietly for the entirety of the novel. [SPEAKER_02]: And to really paint how far he has come by the end.

1:22:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And just highlights why these two characters are truly the perfect boils for one another. [SPEAKER_02]: and how their struggles both overlap but also have been parallel lines throughout the entirety of the story and I mean it's like I find it to be deeply moving but I was worried that readers would.

1:22:39 [SPEAKER_00]: be like, what the hell am I going to be like, no, we signed up for like, this book is peony laughs and chaos. [SPEAKER_02]: But no, I think it's it's it's got to cry sometimes. [SPEAKER_00]: You guys have to start it. [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that if we're comparing like female fantasy and once in a timeline, as like your two romances that I feel like female fantasy goes on this journey of it's super fun, it's super joyful.

1:23:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And we dive into some topics between the [SPEAKER_00]: are definitely a lot heavier. [SPEAKER_00]: There's like some sad situations that they go to, that they're able to connect over and they have like such a history together, the two main characters. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that when we get to once in a timeline, there's this ability for it to be romantic in a new way that FEMA fantasy didn't allow for because [SPEAKER_00]: She was so focused on romance novels that like that feels like that through line there that when we get to once in a timeline We're building a romance between them and so while there is a lot of like sadness It's a lot because we're learning these people where they already knew each other in female fantasy and they're just diving deeper whereas we're

1:23:43 [SPEAKER_00]: having to learn on the page between the two of them as we go through their life. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that it allows for it to also be your most romantic book to be your softest book because I feel like that's what's beautiful about the exploration of life and romance is that you get to have the soft warm side of it, too, to counteract what.

1:24:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Might make you cry. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for saying that, Haley. [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I, you know, I love Laya and Juni for completely different reasons, but they're so connected, so connected. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe closer than you think when you [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, maybe if you've been missing the characters from female fantasy or any of my previous books, you might want to consider picking up once in a timeline.

1:24:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And whenever people tell me that they're sad, most famous girl didn't get a sequel. [SPEAKER_02]: I like to tell them there are quiet updates to what's happening in the world of most of the world in the background of every single one of my books. [SPEAKER_02]: You just have to pay close enough attention.

1:24:43 [SPEAKER_02]: I love that. [SPEAKER_02]: I've got it. [SPEAKER_02]: I found it. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Junia's a character who has been through something traumatic in her youth, but her [SPEAKER_02]: used as an excuse to keep herself out of arms length from people. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but ultimately makes her like extremely rooted in her convictions, and I like who she is.

1:25:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Lia is someone who, because of, you know, many, many years of, I want to say like familial and social neglect has decided to remake herself. [SPEAKER_02]: in response and she's done so so efficiently that she's completely lost track of like what is performance and what is her personhood.

1:25:39 [SPEAKER_02]: She is lost touch with reality in a literal way because of the time loop, but it takes someone breaking in to her timeline and not just [SPEAKER_02]: perceiving her that actually truly seeing her for her to start questioning her motivations and slowly starting to peel back some of the layers that make up her mask.

1:26:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Those two different responses are in some ways, you know, reactions to similar situations, [SPEAKER_02]: and because of that, I do see these characters in many ways more like sisters. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're kind of two sides of the same coin to like a reaction that they had. [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

1:26:29 [SPEAKER_02]: They're two different ways that one can respond to this kind of social adversity. [SPEAKER_02]: like you can sort of like double down on who you are or you can change everything about yourself to assimilate and I think it's kind of amazing to imagine the kinds of conversations that two people who go through.

1:26:52 [SPEAKER_02]: a journey like that could have and maybe that would leave to real systemic change for the next generation of maybe like second-gen girls who are just looking for a place to belong and a way to understand themselves. [SPEAKER_02]: So I feel very endeared to Lyah as a character. [SPEAKER_02]: As I did Juni, [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, she might not be like, my sunshine girl like Judy was.

1:27:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: But I do think that there is like something to, you know, she's, she's my eclipse. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And always that. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm thrilled to bring her to the page and to readers. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, if you need some like bonus content for a deluxe edition, you should have a Juni lia conversation between the two of them, like what they're like, me'd like, we're going to get coffee and here's what we're going to.

1:27:43 [SPEAKER_00]: That's going to be the bonus chapter. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I mean, I- [SPEAKER_02]: would love to, I don't want to spoil anything, but I think so, so deeply, so often about how all four of my characters would interact with each other because all four of my FMCs are all like Middle Eastern American young people or to say people in their 20s and they all have such different ways that they contend with their identity.

1:28:15 [SPEAKER_00]: yeah um group therapy is what they need. [SPEAKER_02]: I think I think all the time I go through my mind to think like who would be annoyed by who who would respect who who would get along with who and I would love love love to write conversations between them but then I'm like Ian's you're writing your own fan fiction like that's a little long.

1:28:36 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's just fiction at that point. [SPEAKER_02]: I think no I think like [SPEAKER_01]: It's easy to be critical of your past self, but like I, everything I've done has only led me to where I am now and I'm just I'm grateful for the journey and so inspirational because I think I think that the default is to be like self deprecating or critical or like, you know, any of those things in hindsight, it's such like a normal human reaction.

1:29:07 [SPEAKER_01]: to criticize your own work and to almost get like insecure about it, preemptively before anybody else has the chance to criticize your work. [SPEAKER_01]: But to just be like a die-hard fan of your own work that you're already writing fan fiction about your own work. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just like, it's beautiful.

1:29:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I love that so much. [SPEAKER_02]: I also think it's like, I just want to say, I think there's as someone who rereads a lot of the back lists of her favorite authors. [SPEAKER_02]: I know that both of you are Emily Henry fans, I listen to your interview as incredible what a cute, unbelievable get, and I know that you've returned her work time to time.

1:29:41 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's also just kind of amazing to track and author's growth and like, [SPEAKER_02]: You know, they're skill, the way they're skill set evolves, the way that they continue to challenge themselves, the longer that they write, what a gift to have like a real time record of where they were at in their life at the time.

1:30:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I just feel lucky. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel lucky to have had that published when I did so. [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel lucky that we now have once in a time-lined one week. [SPEAKER_00]: You guys just have to wait one week. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you're listening to this a couple of days after it airs, and you're even closer to pub day.

1:30:18 [SPEAKER_00]: But my last question for you, actually, is my second-to-cross question for you, is why do you think a Gilmore Girls fan would love once in a time-line? [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh, because Gilmore Girls is a show [SPEAKER_02]: And ultimately, my books are all about taking women seriously, like taking women's interest seriously, taking women's passion seriously, and not condescending towards them or being misogynistic about businesses and industries that are championed by them.

1:30:56 [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, if you are someone who [SPEAKER_02]: like just gets a kick out of anything that's for the girls like once in a time line definitely has those moments and so that's reason number one. [SPEAKER_02]: And the reason number two is I think that a different point within Gilmar girls, both Rory and Lorelie, feel as if like they need to [SPEAKER_02]: the environments that they put themselves in and sometimes they leave those masks on for too long and it starts to bleed into other aspects of their lives in a way that can be detrimental to their relationships in themselves and what's in a timeline is very much a study of performance versus person of [SPEAKER_02]: of identity versus isolation, and it's a reminder to treat people with kindness and with love.

1:31:53 [SPEAKER_02]: So I do think that if that aspect of Gilmore Girls has a appeal to you once in a timeline will too, and also because of the kissing. [SPEAKER_02]: And also the kissing. [SPEAKER_02]: And also the, the, the, the, the, the [SPEAKER_01]: But Leah is also like very funny and quicky. [SPEAKER_01]: She has some comebacks that did sometimes remind me of Laura Lye.

1:32:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, Laura, like a woman. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's for sure. [SPEAKER_00]: She's also having some issues with her mom. [SPEAKER_00]: We, you know, this is not the so many reasons. [SPEAKER_00]: This is not the book to dedicate to your mom. [SPEAKER_00]: Love, shout out to your mom.

1:32:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So sorry, sorry, baby. [SPEAKER_00]: This is not the one for you. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, if you have mommy issues in any way, those pop up on the page, if you ever dated a rich asshole that pups off on the page. [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, it's so nice. [SPEAKER_00]: You're so right. [SPEAKER_00]: So does.

1:32:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you've ever been intimidated by a day in the life of someone who seems to have it all together, this one's also, this one is really, really, really. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, just illusion yourself. [SPEAKER_02]: If you've ever embarrassed yourself in a professional environment, this is for you, most everyday.

1:33:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Almost every day for me. [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I didn't mention it, but like, if you're familiar with my work, if you're unfamiliar with your work, [SPEAKER_02]: My pages are always littered with humor. [SPEAKER_02]: So there's pop culture references. [SPEAKER_02]: There are there's like clickle sling.

1:33:15 [SPEAKER_02]: There's like very very quick fast-paced exchanges. [SPEAKER_02]: Like can you miss it? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's that you might not even realize our jokes until you read them. [SPEAKER_02]: And [SPEAKER_02]: I forgot to even say those are the temple reasons why everybody loves the dialogue in Gilmour Girls.

1:33:34 [SPEAKER_02]: So if anyone sees even a smidgen of that in a once in a timeline, I will just be so honored. [SPEAKER_00]: I love speaking of references though. [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think that Lyon knows what Gilmour Girls is? [SPEAKER_00]: She did not know what Groundhogs Day was. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so for a very specific reason, Lyah has forgotten like every movie she's ever seen and also like hasn't doesn't have the attention span to watch a movie that's longer than like an hour and a half.

1:34:03 [SPEAKER_02]: But there are a lot of references to Lyah having watched. [SPEAKER_02]: popular television shows. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: So I very much do believe that Lyah has watched Gilmour Girls. [SPEAKER_02]: I think that there's a chance that watching Gilmour Girls need her incredibly sad because like the heart of Gilmour Girls is being close with your community and like fam-mate family.

1:34:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And Lyah doesn't really have that at least so sad. [SPEAKER_02]: So it's possible that she had to turn it off because it made her feel so lonely. [SPEAKER_00]: I know, I hate to break your heart. [SPEAKER_00]: That's actually, wow, I a little bit want to cry at that. [SPEAKER_00]: We can't end there.

1:34:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I have one more question for you because we can't. [SPEAKER_00]: We can't. [SPEAKER_02]: So much, okay, when she's, oh my god, it's so hard not to spoil this book. [SPEAKER_02]: After the story, after the story concludes, she definitely will be able to rewatch Gilmour Girl. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's very effective and enjoy it.

1:35:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Her number and they're going to talk about the makeover that Laura Leigh gets to Luke and they're going to talk about their own past in that sense. [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to watch it together and they're going to have a great time and everything's going to be okay.

1:35:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I would love this last question, Haley, take us away. [SPEAKER_00]: If you got stuck in a Groundhog's Day, style once in a timeline situation, but it was on Gilmore Girls, what episode or scene would you want to get stuck in in a time loop? [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, that is such a hard question.

1:35:35 [SPEAKER_02]: It's funny because there are multiple scenes on Gilmour girls that feel like a time loop already. [SPEAKER_02]: Like I would argue that the Friday night, the famous Friday night dinner scene, yeah, feels like a time loop, like it feels like it's stuck in a time loop. [SPEAKER_02]: And then I would also argue, these are like some of the best episodes of TV ever, but the danceathon episode falls.

1:35:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's my turn because it's a star. [SPEAKER_01]: It came to mind. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just night time though, I know. [SPEAKER_02]: Immediately I was like, well, the dance marathon, but then I was like, actually that might make me start to go a little insane. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, do you want to go insane?

1:36:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Or do you want to have like a good time? [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly precise. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it would either be something like truly magical, like an episode of Gilmore Girls that feels [SPEAKER_02]: ethereal like for some reason the bit of basket immediately came to mind like everyone's we're going or sitting on the bridge with jazz eating a little picnic that was just like that's just like that's a day that you wish you could stretch yeah yeah and I love that one of those like the the an appropriate amount of vending [SPEAKER_02]: really feels like amplified because when you're young, like everything is beyond magical and feels more special than it does.

1:36:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean this is sad but in adulthood. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so yeah, I think like maybe it's snowing. [SPEAKER_02]: Like I have these are not real episodes. [SPEAKER_01]: I want like race bridge dinner, maybe, you know, at the restaurant's place. [SPEAKER_01]: That would be fine. [SPEAKER_01]: I also would make a case for the dance marathon episode.

1:37:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I know it's chaotic, but like there is something about that that feels a little groundhog day. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you have to get an eggless egg salad every single day. [SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm going with the Life and Death Brigade event and season 5. [SPEAKER_02]: I was going to say that too, because when I said like ethereal and magical, I thought about that.

1:37:23 [SPEAKER_00]: My only defense is like I don't really like camping like I don't want to really like camping in a time loop Well, you actually only have to do it one-to-day because it's in your end of time loop so you get to our ballgown I know which would be so hard That would be good fun There's like two options.

1:37:39 [SPEAKER_01]: You could have like a there are a couple of options. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah I'd be very interested to know what our listeners would want. [SPEAKER_02]: I want to know I think the same thing. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, well, my two episodes that came to mind were the like and death brigade and the dance marathon.

1:37:56 [SPEAKER_02]: It was when I saw multiple times. [SPEAKER_00]: This was a matter that I was like, wait, I don't know, but yeah, absolutely. [SPEAKER_01]: I think they're great answers. [SPEAKER_00]: Perfect answers. [SPEAKER_00]: My actual last question for you is you teased a little bit about something that's coming for the most famous girl in the world, but then I'm trying to put out of my mind.

1:38:12 [SPEAKER_00]: But what is next for you? [SPEAKER_00]: I know your next book is really only coming out next week, so it feels kind of mean to ask But I know you're writing something because last time in the last episode you said Groundhog's day was your next book and that was all you're gonna say at it And now we hear talking about it.

1:38:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So even if you want to just give one word, yeah, if you just want to get one word, you can One next time we'll remind you of it [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh, I mean, so much could change because my draft was unfinished, but I'm going to be two words, okay? [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. [SPEAKER_02]: And I haven't said this anywhere, so I'm scared.

1:38:46 [SPEAKER_01]: We're making new excuses to do. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, the two words are Etsy-witch. [SPEAKER_01]: Wait, that was in this book! [SPEAKER_01]: I'm dead, Etsy-witch. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_00]: We have a lot to think about until next year. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm locked in.

1:39:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I love you. [SPEAKER_01]: It's really stuck out to me in this book. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, when you talked about an Etsy witch, and it was such a drive by. [SPEAKER_01]: But I also love that it's a drive by the. [SPEAKER_01]: The threat is being pulled. [SPEAKER_02]: It comes back, yeah.

1:39:21 [SPEAKER_02]: It comes back. [SPEAKER_02]: That was not a nothing comment. [SPEAKER_02]: Now, now readers have to pick up once in a time line in search. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm about to go picture. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to go on my Kindle in search. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see which. [SPEAKER_00]: They're just going to be one result.

1:39:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's going to be in once in a time line. [SPEAKER_01]: I love it. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so excited. [SPEAKER_01]: We can't wait to see what you do next. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for being here. [SPEAKER_01]: I think you're the first person who's been on this show three times isn't it? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, our first three peat.

1:39:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I named my file a man here where a man who re-rethria, because is your third episode. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: The rea! [SPEAKER_00]: The first two three episodes, two go more to read and again more to say. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like you are the ultimate GTS universe guest.

1:40:10 [SPEAKER_02]: well it's only because I'm such big fans of both of you ladies I feel like so honored to be able to share my work with you early and have you guys read it in such good faith and every time we talk I think so deeply about the questions and I'm such I'm just such a I'm a big follower of yours [SPEAKER_02]: Guys, if you're listening, please consider pre-ordering this book.

1:40:43 [SPEAKER_02]: You're going to be quickly beg, she says. [SPEAKER_02]: Guys, I just got to quickly, like, one last. [SPEAKER_02]: We'll all hold it up. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's for the audio girl. [SPEAKER_00]: These all three of us have to work with you. [SPEAKER_00]: Your copies are so will let. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my God.

1:40:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I've got to get a light in here. [SPEAKER_02]: We'll get you. [SPEAKER_02]: I'll get you to set up. [SPEAKER_02]: But. [SPEAKER_02]: It makes such a big difference, I think that a lot of people don't realize how much pre-ordering impacts the career of an author, even more influential than picking up a book after it comes out.

1:41:16 [SPEAKER_02]: So if you're able, if anything I said in this conversation resonated with you, it would mean the absolute world to me if you could pre-order this book. [SPEAKER_02]: It is available on Bytes & Noble, is available on [SPEAKER_02]: The Rainforest website that we shall not name and it is available at your local indie bookstore I would love love love to sign up for you.

1:41:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you guys so much for having me and we can put a link in our shown-outs Yes, the stops that you'll be at because I know that also has goodies and signed copies Check out a mom's Instagram or website for event updates because maybe she is coming to a city near you very very soon [SPEAKER_02]: I would love to meet you in Squeezie in person the last time I went on tour.

1:41:58 [SPEAKER_02]: I met multiple people who told me that they were Gilmour to say, let's go. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, great, because I'm letting you go back and talk about Gilmour girls. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And every time it happens, I know for a fact, I'm with the girls. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm a medium.

1:42:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.