The Puffs, The Life and Death Brigade, and Rory Gilmore

0:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Five, six, seven, eight secret societies. [SPEAKER_01]: That was good. [SPEAKER_01]: We did a good job there. [SPEAKER_01]: Shh. [SPEAKER_01]: It's okay. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a secret. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: Here we go. [SPEAKER_01]: Hi everybody. [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to Gilmour to say with Tara and Haley.

0:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Tara the Zaley. [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, Haley. [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, Tara. [SPEAKER_00]: Happy September. [SPEAKER_00]: It's all the first love jinx. [SPEAKER_00]: You owe me a coffee. [SPEAKER_00]: A pumpkin spice coffee. [SPEAKER_01]: I'll give you a coffee later this week or next week. [SPEAKER_01]: Whenever I see you because I'm seeing you a lot.

0:35 [SPEAKER_01]: we are. [SPEAKER_00]: You guys, this is C Tara month. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just at this point of recording, we have not yet been there together, but when this airs, we will have just been in Connecticut for the weekend together. [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, kicking off fall as you do in the Yorkian Connecticut, then we are going to do next week, Kelly Bishop.

0:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you believe it? [SPEAKER_00]: Can you believe it? [SPEAKER_00]: No, it can't. [SPEAKER_00]: And then one of our favorite things ever, ever, ever, ever. [SPEAKER_00]: Which is the Saturday and Stars Hollow. [SPEAKER_00]: Stars Hollow Saturday, if you will. [SPEAKER_00]: I always get the mixed up in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

1:09 [SPEAKER_00]: We love it every year. [SPEAKER_00]: October 2nd, October 3rd. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm really excited. [SPEAKER_01]: It was funny. [SPEAKER_01]: I was telling Brett about it. [SPEAKER_01]: He was like, when are you guys going to set October 13th? [SPEAKER_01]: He goes, it's a normalized wedding day.

1:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I said, no, that's June 30th. [SPEAKER_01]: He goes, what's October 13th? [SPEAKER_01]: I said, mean girls. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, mean girls. [SPEAKER_01]: It was. [SPEAKER_00]: It was. [SPEAKER_00]: It's October 13th. [SPEAKER_00]: I said, I could understand why you might be confused, but no, it is.

1:30 [SPEAKER_00]: It is a fact. [SPEAKER_00]: Different culture. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: But we're really excited. [SPEAKER_01]: There are so many, I mean, as only Lisa and Lane with rock paper scissors and armor Michigan do, it is just filled to the brim with activities and will be there the whole weekend, Friday and Saturday and it's just gonna be so, so fun.

1:48 [SPEAKER_01]: We look forward to it every single year. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, it's just one of those things, I don't know what it was that first time, it was just so magical. [SPEAKER_00]: In part, cause we had never attended this event before cause they had done it for a couple of years prior. [SPEAKER_00]: But our first time was just truly so magical being in our bird.

2:05 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels like that's small town because it's a college town, but it has that small town feel honestly walkable city, feels like a small town, but it was just so a thumbnail and of course like it was still quite warm because early or like, [SPEAKER_00]: late September is not quite chilly weather, but Lisa and Lane at Rock Paper Scissors made it feel so fall.

2:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And it just like the whole way through the weekend. [SPEAKER_00]: Terran, I were like, oh my gosh, this is the best trip we've ever had. [SPEAKER_00]: This is the best event we've ever done. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I think such a good time. [SPEAKER_00]: And then we back the next year and it was like maybe it was just that first year magic.

2:39 [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: How didn't even better time if possible. [SPEAKER_00]: And so every here we look forward to this so much. [SPEAKER_00]: We just had a meeting about it this morning with Lisa from Rock Paper Scissors. [SPEAKER_00]: every twist and turn of everything that she told us that was going on.

2:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So excited. [SPEAKER_01]: I just kept going so thrilled. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh my gosh, everything. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh, I love that. [SPEAKER_01]: I love that. [SPEAKER_01]: That's so fun. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it was. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know. [SPEAKER_00]: So many things that they do because there is a Friday night event where you can do a VIP shop, but it's not just shopping.

3:07 [SPEAKER_00]: There's so many activities and some pop-ups that are included that I think it's just going to be such a fun time. [SPEAKER_00]: build is a girl dinner, fried in a girl dinner, if you will, and there will be girl dinner bites that loreline boring love. [SPEAKER_00]: So very, very excited about that.

3:22 [SPEAKER_00]: But of course, I favorite event of the year. [SPEAKER_00]: Almost every year is coffee coffee coffee, which is our early morning, early for me. [SPEAKER_00]: It's early for you. [SPEAKER_01]: I would literally only make up this early for y'all, and I guess for jury duty, because I did just have that a couple days ago.

3:36 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the two things, the government, and y'all. [SPEAKER_00]: Only two things. [SPEAKER_00]: Only two things when I would get arrested if I didn't trust one. [SPEAKER_00]: I have to be there for and it's just because we just have such a good time because it feels very collaborative. [SPEAKER_00]: It was the first event that we did a couple of years ago where we felt like we were like a amongst y'all, like that y'all were.

3:58 [SPEAKER_00]: having that podcast episode that all of you want where you're the third host in your car in your room on your run wherever you are talking back to us, but now you can actually talk back to us and we encourage it and love it and want you to do that and it's always been such a fun just such a fun event and such a fun it just feels like a hangout really where it really is where you're all facing us [SPEAKER_01]: And it was interesting because we've talked about this before, but it was the first time that we had done a live show, quote unquote, that didn't feel like a show.

4:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And those podcasts do live shows that is very, very common. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's kind of the standard on stage with lights and mics and everything. [SPEAKER_01]: And we do have microphones, but it's just a little bit more, it's true. [SPEAKER_01]: I just think of last year of trivia, we'll talk about that in a second, but yeah, yeah, it's really intimate and it's really like a community style event which we love and it still feels like a live podcast episode because we're chatting But you get to chat with us and so the coffee coffee coffee event also has like coffee coffee and coffee and these incredible vegan pop parts that we always look forward to every single year [SPEAKER_00]: And so those will be there.

5:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And you get a mug included when you come to coffee coffee coffee and a little star's holocaust. [SPEAKER_01]: It's very, very cute. [SPEAKER_01]: And then from there you can shop at rock paper scissors for stars holocaust Saturday. [SPEAKER_01]: And like Haley mentioned, they're going to be a ton of vendors there.

5:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And they just create such a wonderful experience at rock paper scissors in Ann Arbor. [SPEAKER_01]: And Ann Arbor itself. [SPEAKER_01]: is such a beautiful town. [SPEAKER_01]: So like once you're done shopping, there are so many other things to do and places to explore that you're not just limited to the shop, Ruth's roast, speaking of coffee coffee coffee, as we have for our favorite places to go.

5:40 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a beautiful little coffee shop down the street from rock paper scissors and there are so many really cute places to eat, so many cute places to shop. [SPEAKER_01]: We love like rotting. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh and fern, fern is so great. [SPEAKER_00]: I saw my ring. [SPEAKER_00]: I tear that was in the bag of rings that I lost, which are really funny.

5:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I might have to pick out any one this year. [SPEAKER_01]: But fern are the girls. [SPEAKER_00]: They are a friendship rings and I lost it. [SPEAKER_00]: So we are no longer friends. [SPEAKER_00]: The turns of bomber. [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry to not set on the spot. [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to say.

6:06 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to find out. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a hard time. [SPEAKER_00]: But for literally the cutest little shop with, like, they, like, were built as lower-lice closet last year and it really feels like that, like, just, like, the cutest clothes. [SPEAKER_00]: And then around to the corner of that, like, temperature and is literality bookstore where you can get your fix on literally any type of book that you want and they're just so friendly and so nice there.

6:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you just walk back around the block and you're at rock paper scissors again. [SPEAKER_01]: It's really amenable to just walking a block or two away around to the corner at the shop or on the corner. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, of course. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just really, really cute and the places that we're going to be at.

6:39 [SPEAKER_01]: This year are really great. [SPEAKER_01]: We have a new location for both coffee coffee coffee and our trivia night, which happens on Saturday night and it is so much fun last year, Haley. [SPEAKER_01]: Shuggers some reason the microphones weren't working, so we had these little microphones that they gave us.

6:57 [SPEAKER_01]: They have like a speaker, a lady-related daughter. [SPEAKER_00]: And they were just a little like, which, my niece and nephew have them too. [SPEAKER_00]: And they're just these little blue-tooth microphones, and I was struggling to be heard. [SPEAKER_00]: Because Tara can boom through the room.

7:11 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, she really can vocally boom through the room. [SPEAKER_00]: Dara can project quite well, can't you? [SPEAKER_00]: I am the other hand. [SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't project if my life depended on it. [SPEAKER_00]: She is a bit soft-spoken, but we're in a new space this year. [SPEAKER_00]: So hopefully it'll be the quality of the audio will be a lot better.

7:35 [SPEAKER_00]: But also it's a bigger space because last year so many people turned up to Gilmour Gold trivia that we really turned people away. [SPEAKER_00]: It was so hard and it was like really because it was a confined space. [SPEAKER_00]: But this year the space is so much bigger. [SPEAKER_00]: So so many more people can come.

7:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So many more people can lose, because only there can only be a winner. [SPEAKER_00]: But maybe that winner's you, and I'm sure that you will have a great time if you come, even if you don't know all the answers, because admittedly, admittedly, the only reason I knew the answers, because I had them.

8:03 [SPEAKER_00]: There were some questions that were quite hard. [SPEAKER_00]: The winning question last year. [SPEAKER_00]: quite difficult. [SPEAKER_01]: So it was very difficult. [SPEAKER_00]: Better start your rewatch today because you have exactly a month before you have to report to Gamma Girl's trivia on October 3rd in the evening.

8:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So get ready. [SPEAKER_00]: Get you in your team ready. [SPEAKER_00]: Get your names ready. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm ready. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm running. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so expecting it's going to be a lot of fun. [SPEAKER_01]: So if you guys want to come to any of these events, all tickets are being sold individually, but you can buy a bundle as well.

8:34 [SPEAKER_01]: For the whole weekend and save a little money, if you plan on coming to all of the events, which I think is really cool. [SPEAKER_01]: You can do like a whole weekend pass. [SPEAKER_00]: Also come to the gift that we asked us, which would otherwise have to buy. [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's quite fun.

8:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the way that they structured it is, it's just going to be so much fun. [SPEAKER_00]: Just go ahead and give the whole thing. [SPEAKER_00]: Come, come spend the whole weekend with us. [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm really excited for the outfits that we're going to wear, which we'll talk a little bit more about as we get closer.

8:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's some themes going on for all of my songs. [SPEAKER_00]: The trivia theme I'm already, my brain is already, I know. [SPEAKER_00]: I already started looking up what I'm going to wear. [SPEAKER_01]: Do I dress like Logan? [SPEAKER_01]: Do I wear a hat? [SPEAKER_01]: Do I wear a hat?

9:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you good? [SPEAKER_00]: You could, what if the night, you know, oh, I can't be the night. [SPEAKER_01]: You'll just have to wait and see. [SPEAKER_01]: You'll just have to wait and see. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I dress like Logan leaving to go to London and we see how fast I can walk down the hallway.

9:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's true. [SPEAKER_01]: The elevator will be like a, like a three-legged race, but a one-legged race. [SPEAKER_01]: But one person one and a half with just one leg and a can. [SPEAKER_01]: So three. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's three. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's three. [SPEAKER_00]: It is three.

9:38 [SPEAKER_00]: One person. [SPEAKER_01]: A three-legged race, but the third leg is a can. [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, this is way too much. [SPEAKER_00]: This is way too much. [SPEAKER_00]: This is way too much. [SPEAKER_01]: This is way too much. [SPEAKER_01]: This is way too much. [SPEAKER_01]: This is way too much.

9:47 [SPEAKER_01]: This is way too much. [SPEAKER_01]: This is way too much. [SPEAKER_01]: This is way too much. [SPEAKER_01]: This is way too much. [SPEAKER_01]: This is way too much. [SPEAKER_01]: This is way too much. [SPEAKER_01]: This is way too much. [SPEAKER_01]: This is way too much. [SPEAKER_01]: This is way too much.

9:54 [SPEAKER_01]: This is way too much. [SPEAKER_01]: This is way too much. [SPEAKER_01]: This is way too much. [SPEAKER_01]: This is way too much. [SPEAKER_01]: This is way too much. [SPEAKER_01]: This is way too much. [SPEAKER_01]: This is way too much. [SPEAKER_01]: This is way too much. [SPEAKER_01]: This is way too much.

10:01 [SPEAKER_01]: This is way too much. [SPEAKER_00]: And I also love the people who walk away with like friends from this because they're going there to meet. [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, of course, when they're for the experience, but you get to meet like massive couple of girls fans. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think one of my favorite parts about when you spend the whole weekend at the event is like, I'm Friday night, you get to meet everyone.

10:20 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you see all who is going to be there. [SPEAKER_00]: And then you come to coffee coffee coffee and you're like, oh my gosh, there's my friend I met last night. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's sit together. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's chat. [SPEAKER_00]: And then you come to trivia and they're on your trivia team and by the end of the weekend, everyone's friends.

10:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And you like, you know, spent the whole weekend making friends with the Gilmore Girls fans. [SPEAKER_00]: It's true. [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's my favorite part. [SPEAKER_00]: It feels very small town in the sense that like everyone you don't Friday night. [SPEAKER_00]: You see them on Saturday and you see them across the street.

10:42 [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, hey! [SPEAKER_00]: Good to see you! [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you can also start starting for your trivia team. [SPEAKER_01]: But yes, that's really what you got to do. [SPEAKER_01]: You got to, you got to interview some people. [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks to Chero. [SPEAKER_00]: Like your starlight style, right in there.

10:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, speaking of making friends, we're here today to talk about how you make friends at school kind of, or in this however you go more, or found some interesting characters. [SPEAKER_01]: That's cool, because it's back to school season, September 1st. [SPEAKER_01]: I know it's so interesting, I was thinking about this this morning, that like so many people are already in full swing back to school, and I got to tell you when this episode airs, New York Connecticut, still not back at school.

11:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Really, okay, Georgia has been back to school. [SPEAKER_00]: I think they went back last week or the before, but I have to tell you, I actually meant something to you this. [SPEAKER_00]: My sister sent me my nephews for Steve kindergarten photo today. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, we're recording our back to school episode.

11:32 [SPEAKER_00]: He's going to school for the first time. [SPEAKER_00]: I was crying because he wore a class of, get this. [SPEAKER_00]: Was it 20? [SPEAKER_00]: It was a shirt that said, cost of 20, 39, but it was like gonna fit him like senior year of high school. [SPEAKER_00]: and he it was so precise on him and I was like just crying I like tear it up thinking about when he's 18 years old because he's five right now when he's 18 that shirt might fit him and I was like no no I gosh and he like went back to school shopping like he got that first experience of picking out his first backpack super Mario Bros if you were wondering of course I'm shocked it wasn't Paw Patrol [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I was surprised too, but he's a big part.

12:09 [SPEAKER_00]: His birthday last year was Mario Theand because that's one of his favorite movies, of course. [SPEAKER_00]: But you just recently learned about Paw Patrol from him. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a singing about school, he's schooled too, but it was just having that like core canon event of going back to school shopping for the first time buying notebooks, buying pencils, buying things for your class, and I was just like, [SPEAKER_01]: It's such a great feeling, and I know we've talked about it a lot on this podcast that like that feeling of back to school and going school shopping is like unmanned.

12:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, there's just this coosiness that accompanies it. [SPEAKER_01]: We had a couple people DMS recently that were like, when is the back to school content coming? [SPEAKER_01]: I really need it because it's like, [SPEAKER_01]: I also think it's kind of tough, and this is why I feel for most of the country that start school in August, that back to school, he's in like, I feel most cozy in months like, now, like September, like that tug of tools, like they're calling it.

13:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I associate with going back to school. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's obviously because that was back to school season for me growing up in Connecticut. [SPEAKER_01]: But we usually don't go back to school until after Labor Day and Labor Day is late this year.

13:15 [SPEAKER_01]: One next week. [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, we had like a little bit of time to kind of bring the summer weather to an end. [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously it's still warm. [SPEAKER_01]: It should the beginning of September. [SPEAKER_01]: It takes a while to really like. [SPEAKER_01]: get into the fall weather, even in the Northeast, but there's just something about it turning September 1st.

13:30 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like that meme. [SPEAKER_01]: When it's like August 31st, just the Gilmore Girls ahead in September 1st is them with fall behind them. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, yeah, we're here. [SPEAKER_01]: It's fall. [SPEAKER_01]: We're right here. [SPEAKER_01]: It's fall. [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

13:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's fully still like raging summer in [SPEAKER_00]: Florida and Georgia where I've been. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a mental thing though. [SPEAKER_00]: You like mentally have to like get rid of summer and that's kind of how I feel the share as you can see behind me. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like full send fall.

13:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm ready for it. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I didn't even see that. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I love it. [SPEAKER_00]: I took away your Emily Henry shrine. [SPEAKER_00]: I did and it is I will say it is a shrine, but again, she approved of it. [SPEAKER_00]: She did. [SPEAKER_00]: She thought it was fun.

14:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to call it fun, too. [SPEAKER_00]: I love, but yeah, I went a little autumnal. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going back to school shopping tomorrow in the sense that like I feel like September and autumn is like that perfect time if you were not a mere resolution person in January.

14:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Like no one wants to change at the beginning of the year. [SPEAKER_00]: What you want to do is hunker down with your hobbies and your favorite comfort show and just make recipes and [SPEAKER_00]: You know, eat soup and cuddle up and you don't wanna have to like change your life all of the sudden?

14:43 [SPEAKER_01]: 100%. [SPEAKER_00]: Like you just wanna take down your Christmas lights and be sad about that. [SPEAKER_00]: You don't wanna like feel like you need to change. [SPEAKER_00]: Some people love it. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure. [SPEAKER_01]: I do think that like because it can be a little bit of a tough season, like once the holidays are over, you're kind of walking into a little bit of the darker times, the darker months.

15:03 [SPEAKER_01]: and I think that surviving those winter months can have a little bit of sparkle to it if you set new goals for yourself like you can feel a little shiny and brand new but I agree with you that even if you did set intentions at the beginning of the calendar year this is like the beginning of the school year and it does feel like time for a reset totally 100% agree and I feel like we've talked about that on a [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like the perfect time to have new goals kind of like re-think your life in the sense of like what you want to Re-think everything you want everything everything Re-think your job, you know, leave a society moving to the woods become a witch like, you know, Lyrky animals and tear-cabin Yeah, so that could be fun, but

15:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I just feel like getting new pencils and getting new pins and getting a planner. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm feeling my room out and like getting like a wardrobe refresh and putting out on my fall decor. [SPEAKER_00]: That just feels like September to me and it makes me feel like ready for what to head, which is the best month of the year.

16:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Gilmour Girl season. [SPEAKER_00]: It's the time to put Gilmour Girls on in the background is like your ambiance. [SPEAKER_01]: if it's not already on already. [SPEAKER_01]: If it's not on, yes, of course. [SPEAKER_00]: But I just, I just love this time of year for so many reasons, but also because it's Gilmourkel season, duh, like, of course.

16:20 [SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like this is Gilmourkel season light before fall. [SPEAKER_00]: really hits on September 22nd, which is a Tuesday. [SPEAKER_00]: I get more to say Tuesday. [SPEAKER_01]: I love that September 1st fell on a Tuesday subsequently because three weeks later, it'll be 21 days later.

16:37 [SPEAKER_01]: The first day of fall is September 22nd. [SPEAKER_01]: Also falls on a Tuesday. [SPEAKER_01]: I love that. [SPEAKER_01]: It's prepared for us. [SPEAKER_00]: We're really excited. [SPEAKER_00]: Such a good month, Ed. [SPEAKER_00]: We've got so much going on so many guests. [SPEAKER_00]: just so many fun things happening and I will say speaking of guests before we get into the episode today next week we're talking to Kelly Bishop can't even believe it at her book tour we will be releasing that conversation as a podcast episode so if you cannot make it to New York which we would up to see there of course it will be on the podcast later this month.

17:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Before we get into today's episode topic though, we also wanted to remind you that our full merch is on sale as of today. [SPEAKER_01]: Not all of our full merch, but all of our greatest hits. [SPEAKER_01]: They're coming back. [SPEAKER_01]: The returners, if you will, exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: So we've got the Gazibos, we've got the fall essentials, and we've got the fall stamps.

17:26 [SPEAKER_01]: which a lot of you've been asking about Haley's wearing and if you're with us on YouTube, so she's got her. [SPEAKER_01]: She's double snap. [SPEAKER_01]: She's got her t-shirt on. [SPEAKER_01]: She's got her cup. [SPEAKER_01]: She's a walking billboard. [SPEAKER_00]: You can see the rock cast on the host service.

17:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll get there. [SPEAKER_01]: She will get there. [SPEAKER_01]: She has enough stamps on her for, honestly, a trip around the world. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're interested in shopping, some of our fall hits their back, and you can visit us at www.gillmordesay.com-shop, and you can find all of these beautiful pieces.

17:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and fall into your own fall. [SPEAKER_01]: It's true. [SPEAKER_01]: But we will have some really new and exciting things coming down the pipe waiting to us. [SPEAKER_01]: We hope that y'all find it exciting. [SPEAKER_01]: I know, it's like it's exciting for us, but new and exciting.

18:10 [SPEAKER_01]: New for sure. [SPEAKER_01]: Exciting. [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see. [SPEAKER_01]: We've talked about back to school in a lot of different ways on this podcast in the past because we were thinking about this yesterday We were planning this episode. [SPEAKER_01]: We were like, oh my gosh, how many back to school episodes have we had and this will be our fifth one?

18:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, season five But it's just so funny that we're just like, oh, let's count all of the ways and and look at all of the ways that we've talked about [SPEAKER_00]: education, academia, worries, school experiences because school is such a big part of this show, like thematically it's like just such a huge element in so many different story lines for almost every character.

18:45 [SPEAKER_01]: But what we haven't quite really zeroed in on is an aspect to both of worries experiences at Chilton and at Yale, respectively, where secrets societies were implemented into the story in some way. [SPEAKER_01]: And if we ever get a chance to talk to Amy Sherman Paladino, I want to add this [SPEAKER_01]: what was this about?

19:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Because with the Yale, it's interesting. [SPEAKER_01]: You can kind of comp the life and death brigade to something that already exists in the history and the foundation of Yale. [SPEAKER_01]: But with children, it's a little fascinating to me because of where did this idea come from to do a secret society like the Puffs?

19:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know what? [SPEAKER_00]: When when we get John Steven's back? [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I thought that you would found something. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh my god, did you find something? [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no [SPEAKER_00]: And he actually wrote one of the episodes in season two that kind of or season three rather that had a little free story line in it.

19:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So yes, I feel like he might have some backstory on that. [SPEAKER_00]: So we're to say on that later when we have John Stevens on again. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I thought that it would be really cool to zero in on the secret societies. [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't episode a couple of years ago called [SPEAKER_01]: and we kind of compared both of Rory's experiences, prompt certain people to other characters that we meet later in the series between Chilton and Yale, and one of the things that we briefly talked about was the fact that she stumbles upon two different secrets societies in both of her experiences, which is why I want to know, like, [SPEAKER_01]: Where did this come from?

20:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Who entered this? [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, we need her to let stumble upon a secret society. [SPEAKER_01]: So I thought it would be really cool to talk about the origins of both. [SPEAKER_01]: Any parallels that were there, a lot of differences that exist as well, but yeah, I just really wanted to get into the nitty-gritty of secret societies, yeah, within children and yeah.

20:46 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's interesting as you say that because like we were talking about how like the origins and worries discovery and worries response to them, they're kind of very, but the discovery of them is quite similar and thinking back to season five like why worry wasn't like, [SPEAKER_00]: How if I stumbled across another secret society like the Madically this is like once is a lot But twice if I had a nickel for a proton and discovered a secret society and have two nickels which isn't a lot It's weird that I happen to use this just about to say it's like that quote about the nickel I know true because it wasn't until we did our children are yellow episode that I was like [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, where he does somehow attract secret societies in both of her educational experiences.

21:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, let's start with the origin of what we know and what we learn from about both of these societies, starting with the puffs, which the children puffs and children are called them. [SPEAKER_00]: Puffs, which makes me think that there's other puffs at other schools. [SPEAKER_01]: I know But she calls it the most influential sorority at Chilton and I was like, oh and there's 10 others worth mentioning Only 10 others worth mentioning which means there might be more than at least 10 or kids go to this school [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no!

22:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Are there, like, are you in multiple secrets sororities? [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like there's like two persons sororities here? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm a solo sorority? [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, man. [SPEAKER_01]: And then, that doesn't include the fraternities.

22:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is only girls. [SPEAKER_00]: It's only girls. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's probably co-ed ones, too. [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder. [SPEAKER_01]: And I wonder if people, like you said, are a part of, like, multiple or there's crossover. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like alliances on big brother.

22:34 [SPEAKER_01]: But what we learned from Paris is that the puffs have been number one, like the number one sorority at Chilton for the last 50 years. [SPEAKER_01]: Her mother was a puff, her aunt was a puff, and her cousin got in with an internship with the Supreme Court. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you because Sandra Day O'Connor was a puff.

22:51 [SPEAKER_01]: She was puffed in 1946, in 1947, she became the president and in 1948, she moved to the group to the table that worries its down at. [SPEAKER_01]: in season two episode seven, like mother like daughter, which of course is when the puffs are introduced and they're really isolated to just that episode until season three.

23:08 [SPEAKER_01]: It all of this happens and then we never quite hear about them again. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it was a secret. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it was a secret. [SPEAKER_00]: Was being the operative word. [SPEAKER_00]: Also, it was a secret to nature around. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I want to know when it stopped being a secret and started being like a unknown thing.

23:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's ask John Stevens. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: Put a pen in it. [SPEAKER_01]: Put a pen in it for John. [SPEAKER_01]: So here are the rules. [SPEAKER_01]: You can't just sit down at their table. [SPEAKER_01]: You have to be invited. [SPEAKER_01]: Someone like Paris was like desperate to be invited to sit at the table and never was.

23:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, where he does, which we'll talk about in a second. [SPEAKER_01]: But it's quote-unquote very secretive. [SPEAKER_01]: What's the point of a secret society if it's not a secret? [SPEAKER_01]: and their hazing tradition is to take hazing, quote unquote, or initiation tradition is to take new recruits to Chilton, blindfolded, in the middle of the night to ring the head master's bell.

23:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And this bell is 120 years old. [SPEAKER_01]: It is a feeling like a belly should be ringing. [SPEAKER_01]: I know it feels like a bell is going to fall apart if you ring it and you have to ring it three times. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's going to just, just, it must be a problem. [SPEAKER_00]: It must be.

24:11 [SPEAKER_01]: And so what Francis says in that episode is here on the spot tonight in this place where so many have stood before you we invite you to join us. [SPEAKER_01]: What you are about to do and what you are about to say will remain forever between the members of the puffs and only the members of the puffs.

24:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: And you say a pledge. [SPEAKER_01]: I pledge myself to the puffs. [SPEAKER_01]: Loyal always be a P to start to F at the end, any you sitting in between while you hold a candle. [SPEAKER_01]: I can. [SPEAKER_01]: And you pledge your life long devotion when you say these words.

24:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And once you finish your oath, you ring the bell three times. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's it. [SPEAKER_01]: You're in. [SPEAKER_00]: It always, every single time makes me think of SpongeBob, SpongeBob. [SPEAKER_00]: F.A.S. [SPEAKER_00]: for friends who do stuff together, yeah, you is for you.

24:54 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just like it's so hard not to hear that when they say it. [SPEAKER_00]: But this to me felt like Amy is kind of like college sorority pulling it into private school, because what I found really interesting about the idea of bringing in secret societies in both of her school experiences is really just like demonstrating another way that Roy could be other [SPEAKER_00]: like she's already in school.

25:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Like she's already made it to this place that is very exclusive. [SPEAKER_00]: So now we're going to make an even more exclusive group. [SPEAKER_00]: that you have, that is a secret that you have to discover, or you have to be invited to. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's like really pushing that like privilege storyline, like that wealth storyline, that exclusive storyline, but raise a loud-in.

25:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know if it's like that thought of like, Rory has access to these things because of her grandparents, despite the fact that her mom, like really hates all of this, like really does not approve of any of this. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think what's interesting about having it in two different places, [SPEAKER_00]: at least for the storyline from like the Paladino perspective is like worries overall thought process as it relates to it because I think that that's origin-wise it feels more college-esque like this feels like more of like a college sorority.

26:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh for sure. [SPEAKER_00]: Like with pledges to recite songs to sing like that sort of thing and it's all girls. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and especially when it comes to the lineage of the history that comes along with being puffed because you often see with sororities and fraternities and I was not a part of Greek life when I went to college, but I did watch the show Greek on ABC fans, so I know that I did watch it [SPEAKER_01]: And it is one of those things where like when your father, grandfather, et cetera, is a part of this experience, and they immerse themselves in it, and they like view that as a brotherhood, it is likely that you are expected to do that as well.

26:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you're called a legacy when you go through like Russia recruitment. [SPEAKER_00]: And for all intents and purposes, Paris Geller is a legacy and they talk about that because when she's like thinking Rory is like, oh, she's maybe going to join one of the other non-exclusive or non-existent non-existent, which is that non-existent secret societies.

27:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, oh my gosh, no, her mom was a puff. [SPEAKER_00]: Her aunt was a puff. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, her whole family's puffed. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, we have to get her. [SPEAKER_00]: They like make her sit down at the table. [SPEAKER_00]: because they're like, whoa, we might lose her.

27:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we can't have a voluntary, which makes a difference if they don't cross. [SPEAKER_01]: They don't cross. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, totally. [SPEAKER_00]: There's just maybe one person in several of these ten. [SPEAKER_00]: Because children's not very big. [SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm like how many people are in these sororities and maybe the reason the pops is one of the biggest or one of the highest ranking ones is because it's the biggest yeah I guess I guess that could make sense that like we have the majority so we are the biggest and therefore the best because how are you going to compete with like what these like 15 girls versus one girl you know this is how this is all here say this is all us yeah speculating

28:07 [SPEAKER_00]: But what I also found funny about the puffs is they mentioned Sandra Day O'Connor. [SPEAKER_00]: So what's the first thing you're going to look up? [SPEAKER_00]: We're Sandra Day O'Connor went to high school. [SPEAKER_00]: El Paso? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Texas. [SPEAKER_00]: I literally googled what Sandra Day O'Connor in this wordy.

28:22 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I just, we're, well, I first go go to high school and there is a standard day on our high school. [SPEAKER_00]: So then I was like, wait, okay, no, let's go to her Wikipedia page. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And she did go to a private school for a brief period of high school.

28:37 [SPEAKER_00]: And then went to public school for I think the last year or something like that. [SPEAKER_00]: But it was in El Paso, Texas. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I wonder if this was just their funny little aside to include her of all people. [SPEAKER_00]: Y'all, she was in Texas. [SPEAKER_00]: Y'all didn't have Wikipedia in 2001.

28:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess not. [SPEAKER_01]: I would love to know why they chose her specifically, but anyway. [SPEAKER_01]: I think they just wanted a very high-profile name where it would be like, oh my god, that's not a well-known fact about her. [SPEAKER_01]: Sandra Day of Connor was a puff. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, holy shit.

29:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway. [SPEAKER_01]: I find it interesting, though, that we learn so much about the initiation process of the puffs during season two. [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, we see them again in season three, but it has nothing to do with worrying a part of it. [SPEAKER_01]: It just has to do with francy standing at school and her trying to leverage her power as the leader of the puffs, which is now not so secret society, I guess.

29:29 [SPEAKER_01]: But then by the time we get to season five, in Norma, Malarin pregnant, when Rory once again kind of [SPEAKER_01]: We don't really learn a lot about the initiation process of how you become a member of the life and death brigade. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I actually think that was one of the like, most like, missed storylines, like, in terms of like exploration of like going down that path, because we know that Logan and the life and death brigade were really brought in for like the love interest aspect of it, but there's just so many different paths that they could have taken for that storyline that I'm always like, [SPEAKER_01]: Well let's talk about what we know because we suspect slash no that this is based on the skull and bones.

30:15 [SPEAKER_01]: What would you call it? [SPEAKER_01]: It's a secret society or it's a society. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a secret society. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah and it's a fact. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Ancient A. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a secret society. [SPEAKER_01]: it dates back hundreds, yeah, in the 1800s of years.

30:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And so we at least know that that is a part of Yale's history and subsequently can deduce that the life and death brigade was based around that, but I couldn't find anything on why she called it the life and death brigade. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there was like another aspect of it too that I feel like when you hear about this aspect of it, you're going to be like, oh, this makes a lot more sense because because it's rooted at Yale, I feel like they're going to base it on like school and bones and the other ancient age, which if you are really interested in the secret societies at Yale and you want a dark academia horror fantasy novel, there is a book called Nighthouse by Leigh Bardugo where there is like a

31:10 [SPEAKER_00]: house at Yale that like helps control like the paranormal activity that happens within the H&A and like they kind of control it. [SPEAKER_00]: It's very, very fascinating. [SPEAKER_00]: It's very good. [SPEAKER_00]: Hi there recommend it. [SPEAKER_00]: But that aside, I think that it is also based on a Oxford club, [SPEAKER_00]: called Endangerous Sports Club.

31:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And this came from a vanity fair article from 2013, the summary of it was, in the late 70s, a group of mostly Oxford University students formed the Endangerous Sports Club dedicated to formal dress, abundant champagne, and such imaginatively insane stunts ascending a grand piano down the slopes of St. Marie's or skateboarding with the bulls and Pamplona.

31:55 [SPEAKER_00]: and so I feel like they also this group invented modern bungee jumping. [SPEAKER_00]: So when you see like photos of it, it very much feels like this article actually in Vanity Fair was about there was like a trial or something because one of the stunts that they did killed one of the members and so they were on trial for like what is it like manslaughter that like involuntary manslaughter [SPEAKER_00]: Um, that they were on trial for that because someone died, but the way that they were describing this was like it was like a cannon that they were kind of shot out and landed in a net and it very much felt like the life and death brigade where they were like people were flying across and you had to shoot them on the paintball guy and like that sort of thing that like jumping off the scaffolding.

32:43 [SPEAKER_00]: This felt like this study of it that they were in formal dress and drinking champagne and doing these events and not everyone's participating some people were there just suspected and so this felt like the Yale version of that like we're like if we could have like an ancient eight had an ancient ninth if we had a night how it wasn't dedicated to paranormal activity as it is and we were to those novel if it was more centered around kind of like extreme [SPEAKER_00]: sports because that's what it feels like life and death brigade feels like because we're doing extreme activities like if you think about when Logan got her in season six they were cliff jumping just with like parachutes and in this instance they're like kind of bungee jumping with the

33:29 [SPEAKER_00]: umbrellas for like a safety net that like that feels very dangerous. [SPEAKER_00]: So it feels like the amalgamation that the paladin notes took like all of these little bits and pieces. [SPEAKER_00]: As I do believe it was in the early 2000s that this trial was happening for [SPEAKER_00]: this involuntary manslaughter that happened in the Oxford Club in the dangerous sports club.

33:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that it is really based on the two of those kind of like mesh together, because like it takes place at Yale. [SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to pull some things from Yale clubs, but it seems more so to be based on this like 1970s dangerous sports club. [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. [SPEAKER_01]: That's so cool.

34:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I did not realize that. [SPEAKER_00]: The moment that they said formal dress and champagne I said, oh, I know that. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: I know all about that. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it feels like that's their take on it. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like school and bones feels like the setup for like the dangerous part of it.

34:21 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like it's life and death. [SPEAKER_00]: No one's ever died. [SPEAKER_00]: Only old ones have as what Logan says. [SPEAKER_00]: So it feels like that just like an amalgamation of all of those things kind of pulled together with. [SPEAKER_01]: I love that. [SPEAKER_01]: I love it was so smart.

34:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And what I loved about the life and death brigade is that obviously, as you mentioned, it was really meant to introduce this character as a love interest. [SPEAKER_01]: and to have him relive this excitement in our, one of our protagonists. [SPEAKER_01]: But I do love that we get a lot of information about the history in a much different way than Paris just telling Lori about what the puffs are.

34:58 [SPEAKER_01]: For Lori, this was really about her interest being peaked. [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll talk about her discovery of it in a moment. [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, what she learns about the life and death [SPEAKER_01]: and like chooses to do with that information, her curiosity about it. [SPEAKER_01]: I think is what makes it more fascinating.

35:15 [SPEAKER_01]: She, yes, stumbled upon this in a similar way, but she was much more invested in what the life and death Brigade was about than she was in the puff. [SPEAKER_00]: No, definitely. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that also speaks her character growth too, because in the sense of if with the puffs, it just felt like she was kind of stumbled upon it, just kind of drug along, just kind of accidentally in all of these situations.

35:41 [SPEAKER_00]: where she had to put herself in the place, the actual space to get in their way to be involved in it. [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, totally. [SPEAKER_01]: So I know I mentioned that we don't really find out about the initiation process of, I would have loved to though. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that might help you.

35:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, something really, really, honestly a little unnerving about [SPEAKER_01]: some of the words that were in the newspaper article that worry reads. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, did you really tell her I'm pregnant? [SPEAKER_01]: I tried to read as much of it as I could. [SPEAKER_01]: And here were the words.

36:16 [SPEAKER_00]: What did the words that got you? [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so it's an article of course about like how the police caught up with the life and that brigade and they arrest them and they say like secret society, whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: But in the article on the side, if you read some of it that's at least in focus, things are written about their initiation, and the words were that I could make out were ritualistic, psychological, juniors, wrestle in, something, physically beaten, cleansing, and higher purpose, and I was like, oh, oh, this sounds like a cult.

36:50 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a cult. [SPEAKER_01]: This is scary and I want to know I would love to know with the whole article said because I wonder if they pulled it from something or if they want to The cops was like, yeah, it's a cold Yeah, exactly Because that was what I could make out, but ritualistic psychological what kind of article what I was like psychological what?

37:15 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's like so interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: I just would have loved to included more in the maybe maybe it's good. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's for the best that we didn't find out too much about the initiation process. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I just think more exploration into this society is a whole especially because with the society secret societies at Yale.

37:34 [SPEAKER_00]: They all have like what are quote unquote called like club houses. [SPEAKER_00]: And at Yale, the school emboons like a haul, or whatever it is, it's called the tomb. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's been expanded several times throughout the years, especially because it's members are quite wealthy.

37:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that it, in like the Wikipedia article about it in 2004, both presidential nominees from like their Republican and Democratic Party were school emboons members. [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting. [SPEAKER_01]: The word tomb was also in there in the article. [SPEAKER_00]: So like two or like two with a capital T, like two with a lower case T, and I will leave it with a lower case.

38:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I wonder. [SPEAKER_00]: But I just would have loved for Rory to like, you know, want to go to the clubhouse, want to go to the two, want to go to like their meeting spot, or maybe like that's why she gets blindfolded because she goes there. [SPEAKER_00]: If you are interested in exploring the storyline like that, there's an author that I had on last year, Eva Ronnie, who wrote a book called Poison Ivy, where the student discovers a secret society, and she goes into their light clubhouse, and like kind of explores that direction at the Ivy, it's very, very good.

38:43 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's also a mystery, but she's very much Team Logan, and so she kind of went down that path. [SPEAKER_00]: But I would have loved to have [SPEAKER_00]: What the puffs, it's kind of like, it's light. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like a secret society light. [SPEAKER_00]: We're getting just information, just enough exposition to put us in this situation.

39:04 [SPEAKER_00]: But with this, I just was like, there's so much you could have done. [SPEAKER_00]: There's like a new location you could have introduced for us, but... [SPEAKER_00]: regardless. [SPEAKER_01]: But I will say I kind of enjoy that it didn't get into. [SPEAKER_01]: There was a little bit of this like dark academia, blue and dagger of the puffs, but then that they tried to kind of cast the shadow on with the life of death brigade, only for her to attend and expect something like that and [SPEAKER_01]: joyous elaborate, very much what you were describing, expensive, luxurious, a little dangerous, but not in this like, we're in an episode of the traitors kind of way.

39:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you know. [SPEAKER_00]: I cannot wait to watch the traders this week too. [SPEAKER_01]: This season, I saw that trailer drop, the trailer, the trader's trailer, if you will. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: But I just think it was such a missed opportunity that when Roy is like, what she expects from a secret society, which, of course, she's heard about Yale's secret societies, but her own personal experience with it, like I figured we'd be breaking in somewhere.

40:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, I would have loved for her to have referenced her own puffs experience. [SPEAKER_00]: And they do, I do think it's like with the puffs, they try to make it seem very spooky, like in the sense that we're breaking in the school, it's dark, but I don't think it's that bad. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think that everything was like, the worst that happened was that had Masso Charleston didn't know they were coming into their office.

40:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's true. [SPEAKER_00]: But with this other one, I just think that we could have gone in different directions. [SPEAKER_00]: Ultimately, it really was just to get Logan and Rory together because we don't really hear much about it again until it's not a secret anymore, totally, which is kind of a similarity with the puffs, which we'll get into in a second.

40:49 [SPEAKER_01]: But just to kind of wrap up the origin of what we learn about the life and death brigade. [SPEAKER_01]: We do find out from Stephanie in you jump by job jack because a lot of the information we start to learn the origin of it comes from Norma Miller and pregnant and then the actual viewing of the life and death brigade event famously is in you jump by job jack.

41:09 [SPEAKER_01]: But she says there's no head of the group because worry asks if Logan is the head of the group. [SPEAKER_01]: She says there's no head of the group. [SPEAKER_01]: There are an anarchic collective and they don't recognize leaders per se. [SPEAKER_01]: And I find that very interesting because how do you keep a group going without some sort of leadership at the helm to carry on like maybe not just one person but like a group of people.

41:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean it's probably that thing where it's like they look to people who's not who aren't like formal leaders, they don't recognize formal leaders, but it very much seems like Rory from an external perspective, everyone's kind of turning to Logan. [SPEAKER_00]: Then I imagine that there's PDF that whose money honestly speaks louder in the group and so you get the experience of that of kind of being the leader.

41:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I also do imagine that there is some sort of legacy attached to it in the same way that there was with the puffs because worried to say to Logan in Norma Miller and pregnant your grandfather was in it, which means your father was in it, which means you're in it, you know, because like that's kind of the way these things go.

42:15 [SPEAKER_01]: So that is what we learn. [SPEAKER_01]: We also learn from Logan shortly after, where he's conversation with Stephanie, that, you know, where he knows based on her research, there's always a big stunt at these events, which we learn. [SPEAKER_01]: is the scaffolding jump. [SPEAKER_01]: And Logo reveals to her that there are authority figures trying to nap them for naughty things they did in the past.

42:35 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is an ongoing thing. [SPEAKER_01]: The authorities are aware. [SPEAKER_01]: The stakes are a lot higher than the puffs, but it's still this kind of like time to eat thing. [SPEAKER_00]: They also, I think, worry says that it goes back to the 1800s. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, she said something to the effect of the membership spans 1,000 centuries, and I was like 1,000 centuries, I think she was being hyperbolic there.

42:57 [SPEAKER_01]: This is to Doyle, no, no, no, she Logan. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, membership spans 1,000 centuries secret hand shakes and say and secret sayings and lots of running around a circle in your underwear. [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm feeling that she was being like she was being hyperbolic in the outside because that doesn't that doesn't feel right I think it may be in my know it was that the school and bones to the 800 to the 1800s But Colin when he introduces it [SPEAKER_00]: He calls it the 100th and 8th assembly.

43:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so what if put it in the early or in the late 1800s anyway? [SPEAKER_00]: So, that makes sense. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how they measure things like that in the life and death brigade. [SPEAKER_00]: We don't have enough information, but for the very least, it's been there since the 1800s, which tracks with the other.

43:41 [SPEAKER_00]: You'll see your society, so the comp of that makes a lot of sense. [SPEAKER_00]: but I do believe she was being hyperbolic at that moment. [SPEAKER_00]: But I just wish she would have been like, you know, in my last experience of discovering this secret society. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's just, I know there's one of the no acknowledgement of it.

43:58 [SPEAKER_01]: And it also begs the question for me of like, where is Paris in all of this? [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I know that she knew about the puffs because of her mother probably, but I do find it interesting that like, she doesn't seem to know anything about this. [SPEAKER_01]: She doesn't. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, when you said that worry was talking to Logan and it's like your grandfather was in it.

44:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It sounded like you were going to say your grandfather was a path and your father was a path. [SPEAKER_00]: So, you're a path. [SPEAKER_00]: So, therefore, you're a path. [SPEAKER_00]: but I find it fascinating though that Paris was kind of the trigger for her not wanting to do this article anymore and kind of being fed up with it because Paris is the one that comes in and is like oh you have a new angle on it and all of the points that she was going to make in her article Paris kind of shuts down and she's like oh [SPEAKER_00]: And so when she goes out to the bathroom after talking to that one guy, she's like really Paris but that sort of stress in her mind of like I'm not getting anything else But she never really talks to Paris about it.

44:55 [SPEAKER_00]: She mentions it to Doyle because he is the the head of the paper, but she's not involved in it in any way [SPEAKER_00]: I also like when she is telling Doyle about it, that Doyle seems, I don't know, like kind of bitter about it, like it's one of those things that you know, but we don't talk about it, but like if he wanted to be tapped for one of these, maybe he's a great society, because in the Wikipedia article about it, there was like an excerpt from someone talking about like the ideal class of the Skull and Bones, and one of it was like a chairman of the, I don't know, I said chairman, like it was too separate.

45:29 [SPEAKER_00]: the chairman of the elderly news a weapon poof like listing out all of the different types of people who would make an ideal class for this secret society and I'm like staying. [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if like Doyle has this sort of like preconceived notion that like maybe someone like him should [SPEAKER_01]: be included in a society like that?

45:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: But I kind of got the sense that maybe he wanted to be a little secretive. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we're also talking about this episode being very doil focused when it comes to the ill deli news. [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, because he's already bitter about the fact that Glenn got the New York Times vertical.

46:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And so he's already feeling a little down on himself. [SPEAKER_01]: So very possible that he's also kind of like, oh, yeah, and also fuck those guys. [SPEAKER_01]: We're not choosing for that. [SPEAKER_01]: And right, that's the energy he obviously doesn't say that. [SPEAKER_01]: Before we get into words discovery of the life and death brigade, I do want to take it back to the puffs because the way that that words discovery of these two groups comes about is very similar and also very different.

46:25 [SPEAKER_01]: But I want to talk about the similarities. [SPEAKER_01]: So worry, of course, in season two episodes seven, like mother like daughter stumbles upon the puffs because she's told by headmaster Charleston via the guidance counselor that she's not social enough at school. [SPEAKER_01]: So she sits down in a random table and [SPEAKER_01]: There are the Puffs, and Paris is the one who tells her all of this information about the Puffs.

46:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And what I find interesting is that when she asks fancy about the, like, and to the group about the secret society, she's like, I beg your finest part in. [SPEAKER_00]: What are you talking about? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And Logan does the same thing when she confronts Logan about the life and death brigade.

46:58 [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, I don't know what you're talking about. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And then, of course, worry ultimately gets kidnapped and brought to children to join the Puffs. [SPEAKER_00]: Frey ultimately gets kidnapped, but she does so blindfolded and that really feels like a touchstone to what Amy puts into the life of death brigade.

47:24 [SPEAKER_01]: because Rory, of course, is, as you mentioned, working on this article for the Yale Daily News with the music-down moving story. [SPEAKER_01]: And she sees Stephanie in the bathroom, Stephanie is in a gorilla mask and a ball gown, and she leaves, and she says, and on the apparatus, and she gets into this black car, and that has Rory kind of on the hunt.

47:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And I like that she finds out about these two things differently. [SPEAKER_01]: Stumbles upon the maxidentally, yes, but she never would have known, or like, as she would have known when she was kidnapped in the middle of the night and forced to ring a bell against her will, that like what this was.

48:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but for Paris told her but she followed the scent with the life and death brigade and you know, she starts doing the research She comes across that article. [SPEAKER_01]: She sees Elias Hansberger. [SPEAKER_01]: She knows I know exactly who to talk to about this And I said I mentioned Logan to Niza he's like [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what you're talking about, but then when he does agree to let her in, he's like wait in the vestibule or LDB says me in the vestibule blindfolded.

48:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's always about blindfolding these people. [SPEAKER_01]: It's always about, it's the, it always says with worry blindfolded in a [SPEAKER_00]: Don't you have a dice? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it's also this overnight day. [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of this like middle of the night. [SPEAKER_01]: We're going out kind of the night time.

48:50 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just, you know, well, she actually leaves in the middle of the day. [SPEAKER_01]: That's fair for a piggy jump. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: It is very upset. [SPEAKER_01]: But when they get there, it's my time. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: I guess that's quite interesting that like everything with the puffs is very hush hush happens under night or under the cover of night.

49:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but Francis says under the cover of night. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I was looking for. [SPEAKER_00]: And then with the life and death brigade, they're like, okay, let's go during the day. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, our things are happening during the day. [SPEAKER_00]: Like the night time thing is just like kind of aesthetically, it makes it like more glamorous, looking to be like glamping at night.

49:21 [SPEAKER_00]: But this all happens during the day. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, out in the middle of nowhere it seems, but for the most part, I imagine that, wherever they are, someone owns the land that they're on, and they're not just... [SPEAKER_00]: in a random spot. [SPEAKER_00]: But the puffs seem to be almost like fronting secret society.

49:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Like they're like young high school girls who feel like this is what a secret society is and this is what it's like we sneak in in the middle of the night and our pajamas because we've kidnapped you and then we bring the bell and then we're all gonna leave because us and Sandra Day O'Connor all did this.

49:58 [SPEAKER_00]: versus the, of course, college version of it, which is quite different. [SPEAKER_00]: And quite more, a little bit more glamorous if you will. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exclusive definitely. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that her discovery of it really just focuses on her character development. [SPEAKER_00]: Like those two parallels feel like Rory stumbled into this because she wasn't very social because she wanted to join, what is it that she says?

50:20 [SPEAKER_00]: The lunchtime reading and Walkman Club, but there's not one of those at you. [SPEAKER_00]: She seems to start one by the end. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's true. [SPEAKER_01]: She said it her own choice already by the end of this episode. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but she just stumbles upon it. [SPEAKER_00]: And she's there almost like just because she's there.

50:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's just something to do. [SPEAKER_00]: And then by the end of the episode when like Laura likes hums and when she kind of stands up to headmaster Charleston, Laura like comes after that. [SPEAKER_00]: But she's blaming it on him. [SPEAKER_00]: Like this is your fault that I'm here.

50:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you were the one that went in me to socialize and some that how I sat at this table [SPEAKER_00]: What? [SPEAKER_01]: I love what she's like so I did it I sat down on a table a random table in France he goes random Yeah, they're not beside themselves Yeah, versus with the life and death brigade Roy seeks this out.

51:08 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a curiosity about it in the moment that we see that Hunsberger is a name on that article that she discovers were like Oh, this is romantic. [SPEAKER_00]: We're going on a romantic trip here and then that's kind of where their arctic says, but the reaction of everyone to the article [SPEAKER_00]: You should hate them because remember the last time this happened.

51:27 [SPEAKER_00]: She doesn't say this, but like and my own mind and like remember the last time this happened You and I run the same page and this was like ridiculous at this this occurred, but now Laura, I is trying to criticize this group and we're just like you don't know them. [SPEAKER_00]: You don't know anything about them and like uh [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so it just seems like the sort of like discovery process here is like to show that worry has shifted in this like group that's supposed to like represent like wealth and exclusivity and this like otherness that she's supposed to experience when she enters into this exclusive place that she's already had to work to get into.

52:05 [SPEAKER_00]: There's like a next level that she has to reach [SPEAKER_00]: But more so, how is Lori supposed to respond to that? [SPEAKER_00]: And it kind of shows that Lori has moved away from Lora-Lie because she's curious and she's defensive when it gets to the life and death brigade versus the puffs.

52:25 [SPEAKER_00]: She's like, yeah, fuck those people. [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's got re-tension. [SPEAKER_01]: It's actually not something that I considered that her reaction to these two different implementations of a secret society are very, very much speaking to Lori's. [SPEAKER_01]: character involvement and to her kind of growing apart from her mom.

52:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: Or growing apart from her mom's mindset. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like it is separating them ultimately. [SPEAKER_00]: Like this is like really the beginning of there. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, season, beginning of season five is the beginning of the Rift anyways because of, yeah, hashtag dean.

52:59 [SPEAKER_00]: But as we get further into it, it's like, we're starting to prioritize different things and be curious about other aspects of this culture that they worked so hard to get her into. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, thinking of like, hey, maybe at some point in this worry might like all these things that for a life thinkcer, hideous and gross, because it's really to me in wedding bell blues when she is talking about the article.

53:22 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, it's like those entitled kids in your article. [SPEAKER_00]: You don't know them. [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, whoa, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Meanwhile, Laura lies mixing up the seating chart and getting the wedding planar fired. [SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: It's really, let's look in the mirror.

53:37 [SPEAKER_00]: But I just think that's what, if ultimately the purpose of having two secret societies is to see worries reaction to them, of course we get one because it's a love interest. [SPEAKER_00]: But the discovery of one of them is definitely romanticly inclined. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, for sure not.

53:54 [SPEAKER_01]: The other one is more so admittedly, I think. [SPEAKER_01]: to bring Paris and Roy a little bit closer together. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because it is relationship building for both of them. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just very differently. [SPEAKER_01]: But I find the way they utilize those two societies.

54:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting, because like you could isolate them both to [SPEAKER_01]: the episodes, like mother like daughter and you jump high jump jack, which I kind of want to bring back to our sleepovers episode because we said that like mother like daughter sleepover vibes and you brought up that you jump high jump jack asleepover vibes and it first I disagreed with you and then my mind has been changed.

54:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I do think [SPEAKER_01]: This is similar in sleep over five nature, but also I think that like you could isolate their existence to just those episodes because after that the characters remain intact from the life and death brigade differently from fancy we don't see her again until season three [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't really feel like they talk about the life and death brigade that often and I find it interesting that Amy kind of introduced them in similar ways.

55:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Went on to utilize them in different ways because the life and death brigade remains. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just never really talked about and when it is, it's once again kind of tapping back to where the puffs reemergencies and three were it's no longer a secret anymore. [SPEAKER_00]: which like it makes sense at least since he's in five if we're to believe that Brory was an investigative journalist who discovered this, who got the inside scoop and was like committed to like anonymous because they're they're one in for crimes and so like there's an anonymous nature like condition that he says no names is what he specifically specifies.

55:37 [SPEAKER_00]: that when we kind of don't hear from them again in season five despite them getting into relationship it makes sense because it's a secret. [SPEAKER_00]: Like that was a secret society. [SPEAKER_00]: She's not invited to it. [SPEAKER_00]: She's just kind of like written an article. [SPEAKER_00]: They've moved on.

55:51 [SPEAKER_00]: We're done. [SPEAKER_00]: That was a secret. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, okay, cool. [SPEAKER_00]: I believe it. [SPEAKER_00]: I believe, I believed it for the puffs too. [SPEAKER_00]: She got them in trouble. [SPEAKER_00]: She didn't get them in trouble, but she was a part of the trouble. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

56:00 [SPEAKER_00]: She stood up and was like, I don't even want to be a part of them. [SPEAKER_01]: I would shut her out too if I was popularly. [SPEAKER_01]: Totally. [SPEAKER_01]: Totally. [SPEAKER_01]: Totally. [SPEAKER_01]: Totally. [SPEAKER_01]: Totally. [SPEAKER_01]: Totally. [SPEAKER_00]: But in both instances, the next season, they come back and we're like, what's the life and death brigade going to do now?

56:12 [SPEAKER_00]: We've been doing this. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's gather. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: What? [SPEAKER_01]: What happened to the secret of nature of the secret to scientists? [SPEAKER_00]: Are you out of bar? [SPEAKER_00]: Are you guys are close? [SPEAKER_00]: Shouting about the secrets. [SPEAKER_00]: Do you not get kicked out?

56:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you not get kicked out? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: There should be rules against that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no. [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to kidnap the middle of the night and haze again to remind you to keep it a secret. [SPEAKER_01]: That should be the problem. [SPEAKER_01]: But I do find it interesting the way that Amy utilizes both of them differently when we do get to those next seasons and it's like, oh, let's bring the story back a little bit because with the puffs, it's really just about francy executing this like trying to get her agenda executed by like leveraging this power that she supposedly has.

56:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Whereas Logan and Colin and Finn, who are really like the only three definitive life and upregate members, Robert and Robert that remain around, you know, it was really just about their existence and their energy. [SPEAKER_01]: They were already introduced as the elite. [SPEAKER_01]: when we need them.

57:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, written in the stars. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: So we don't need to establish their power and therefore the life and death brigade just kind of becomes this thing they talk about. [SPEAKER_01]: Less so something that someone else needs to bring into the conversation or the narrative for some sort of power or leverage.

57:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and I I find that quite confusing and it it seems like in season six when they bring it up. [SPEAKER_00]: It's early season six and worry is in her like falling out of Yale, but like wanting to get back in and like has this like [SPEAKER_00]: desire to go back to Yale, but doesn't know what to do, and so we're making Logan and his friends seem kind of like deadbeat rich kids who like only drink only party, and so we're going to bring in the life and death brigade as an anecdote here of like, oh, let's continue this very dangerous group that we do where we just don't care about anyone else and just do our own thing.

58:06 [SPEAKER_00]: But I just didn't feel like that's what it was when we met them. [SPEAKER_00]: Like it was a great. [SPEAKER_00]: He had to get permission to bring her, like the light folder. [SPEAKER_00]: And now we're at the bar just talking about it. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I know. [SPEAKER_00]: Why can't we be at the clubhouse?

58:18 [SPEAKER_00]: The tune. [SPEAKER_00]: And talk about it there. [SPEAKER_00]: And like, always like, I don't want to do a stunt. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to watch you guys hurt yourselves. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, I feel like there was a way to bring it in. [SPEAKER_00]: But casually and just conversation as if it was like this bar down the street that they like to go to, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I totally agree with you.

58:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, do you think that Roy became a member of the life in death room? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, do you think that that it was insinuated that she just suddenly became a member of the life in death brigade? [SPEAKER_00]: No, I know a lot of people have that opinion at the end of you jump when Roy gets an knock on her door and there's the camera in the bottle champagne and the gorilla mask.

58:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I saw that more as like, especially because it's pictures of her Logan, that I was like, I saw this as more of like, uh, thanks, thanks for the mems you did a great job. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're more than the sheltered girl that we thought you were and now we're going to have a flirtation into episode 13.

59:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I just, I never thought that that was her joining it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I guess I never thought about that being symbolic of her, like, you're in. [SPEAKER_00]: Also, if the initiation is anything like the little words that you pulled from the article, she got off ease. [SPEAKER_01]: She got off really easy.

59:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Like we're just letting this go join. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just giving her champagne. [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone else was tortured. [SPEAKER_00]: Totally. [SPEAKER_01]: Psychologically, apparently psychologically and had to wrestle and beaten. [SPEAKER_01]: We're not even wrestled one person.

59:46 [SPEAKER_01]: No, not in this group. [SPEAKER_01]: No, it's true. [SPEAKER_00]: Let me get to the end of season six and they're all at Logan's apartment talking about it. [SPEAKER_00]: It seems like. [SPEAKER_00]: They felt comfortable talking about it because we know is about it, but I still feel like there would be a very secretive nature around it That it wouldn't just be because it's Logan's girlfriend that they're allowing her to know about things especially when Juliet and Redhead who's name I'm forgetting don't know Rose Mary Rose Mary love scouting me.

1:00:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I was never gonna get there, so but when [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like [SPEAKER_00]: And we're just done blindfolding.

1:00:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're just done blindfolding blindfolding. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done.

1:00:53 [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_01]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done.

1:00:59 [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done.

1:01:04 [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done.

1:01:10 [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're just done [SPEAKER_01]: I know and it's it's interesting because when I see it executed in other shows like gossip girl and you know when Chuck gets he like is desperate to get an app right yes cannot buy a specific society yes that's very skull and bones I really skull and bones is always it be you know because there you go.

1:01:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, he's desperate to be, you know, a part of that and they do get very dark with it and there's hazing involved, but I just wonder if on Gilmore rolls like Amy wanted to make it part of a story like part of an episode, the center of an episode, but not have it be it kind of wholesome.

1:01:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, how about me, we're not so, yeah, yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: It's mysterious, but still fun, still go Merkel's nature, but I do think that there's a way that we could, like, had it play out, so it didn't just feel like, well, it's just a hangout spot, you know, like, it's a, it's a, it's a club that people can join, totally.

1:02:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean it is, but it is not it felt so mysterious and of course like like you said the puffs was mystery light but this felt a little more especially because as Logan speaks to like the authorities want them for some things that they've done they've done some naughty things and so they're just shouting about it in the bar yeah exactly I would be very much more secretive about it but I agree with you I do think that we could have like pulled it that thread a little bit more [SPEAKER_01]: maybe being a little more transparent about whether or not Rory was actually initiated into this society because she knows about it.

1:02:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not, I'm not on board with people who think that that was a symbol at the end of you, Joe Biden, getting the, the mask, I never saw it that way. [SPEAKER_01]: I saw it the way you see it, just like, I can't afford it for the things for the memories. [SPEAKER_01]: But I can understand why people would feel that way, that that was a symbol of like, you're in, like, you know about us now.

1:03:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think it's more, I feel really no sparkly, hard about that, about people who about being on board with that, just because it's a secret society and like she knows about them now. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not just that we're going to be like, you're in girl, like we had to blindfold you.

1:03:22 [SPEAKER_00]: We did not trust you. [SPEAKER_00]: I think this is more of like a, like, we trust you to keep our secrets almost that like, [SPEAKER_00]: It's never mentioned ever again, so like the transparency of her not joining it for me is that she never ever speaks to them ever again and it's just more of like it's just pulling at the like the romantic thread of like when she's going through the camera you best believe is a picture of her in Logan so it feels like just a plot line [SPEAKER_00]: servicing to pull it that thread a little more, especially because in the next episode We're gonna meet we're gonna see Mr. Logan Hansberger and he's gonna have some thoughts about our article about the article.

1:03:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure I also find it really interesting that in the revival I think that of course for fan service Amy wanted to bring a little slice of the life and death reggae back We also get a mention of the puffs because [SPEAKER_01]: Francis, the revival in spring, but I do find it interesting that there is a whole segment about the life and death brigade, and that this was a reunion of sorts for not just Colin Finn Robert and Logan, but also worry, and that this is kind of, it almost feels like it's their send off, because the way that Mitchum talks about the life and death brigade, we don't really [SPEAKER_00]: But it's like, if he was in it, he's thrown it around casually too.

1:04:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: But I do think that like once you graduate, the insinuation is you move on. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, at least didn't have any like grown adults at this event in you jump out jump jack. [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: I think that that's the case. [SPEAKER_00]: For most secret society, I think it's college-based, but I just think that you, it's like the same way that Francis was talking about the puffs of like, it's your building connections, your building networks, it's your, like you can't access these connections any other way than having been in the secret society.

1:05:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that at least from what is written in 9th house, this is a fiction book, is that the graduates and the alumni of these organizations fund them. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's what that's what I've learned is that maybe there's like boards because I think it was in the Wikipedia article for the school and bones is like they had to there was like this huge vote that had to take place to allow women because women were in a loud in at Yale and then in 1969 they women were then accepted that I think that's the year is that right I might have been actually yeah, but that women were not allowed and then women suddenly [SPEAKER_00]: We're at Yale, but they weren't allowed into the secret society that they had to do this like huge vote of the organization to and it was like included alumni.

1:06:03 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that they're financially invested at least in the jail one, but the participation is only with the students. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what it. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I gathered. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that maybe Mitchum, maybe he's not given any money to this.

1:06:20 [SPEAKER_00]: This, yeah, maybe he was like, he's over at home. [SPEAKER_01]: Good. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, yeah, guys. [SPEAKER_00]: He's not talking about it as a secret. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: It's almost I think that within the narrative, Amy and Dan decided like, okay, once it's no longer a secret for a morey, it's, we're just going to talk about it, recipients.

1:06:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, common knowledge, but it's not something that was ever talked about with like Marty, or even with Paris, you know, like these were not favorites that were discussed elsewhere, which I find really interesting. [SPEAKER_01]: But I'd like to end with a little would you rather because of course, those are always fun.

1:06:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, those games are always fun. [SPEAKER_01]: So we'll start with the obvious, would you rather be in the life and death brigade or in the puffs? [SPEAKER_01]: I would rather be in the life and death brigade. [SPEAKER_01]: Tell me why. [SPEAKER_00]: Personally, I think it just seems more glamorous and fun.

1:07:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And in the sense that the puffs, it seems like it does what a secret society does, which is bringing you into social group, gives you connections beyond your graduation from this. [SPEAKER_00]: School, but I think with the life and death brigade, you don't always have to do the scary events.

1:07:26 [SPEAKER_00]: You can just be involved. [SPEAKER_00]: You can just be a spectator. [SPEAKER_00]: You can just be the girl in the little thing that they're carrying while they're playing croquet is it? [SPEAKER_00]: Like you can just be fun. [SPEAKER_00]: It can just be a fun time and you can go glamping.

1:07:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I just think it seems fun as long as you're not doing the dangerous things. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's the only reason that I would maybe air on the side of caution and become a puff. [SPEAKER_00]: Ooh, you're the puff. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I just think that it's a little less dangerous, but also here's the thing.

1:07:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know that I want to be attached to people like francy for a rest of my life. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, oil you'll always be. [SPEAKER_01]: That's a big commitment to make when you're 16 years old. [SPEAKER_01]: Whereas I feel like the life and death brigade, it would really depend on the initiation process.

1:08:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Because you're so right. [SPEAKER_00]: I think I was going to have a little bit. [SPEAKER_00]: If they wanted to tap me in for this, I might tap out real early on. [SPEAKER_00]: If that is to be, to be fair, that was an old article. [SPEAKER_00]: They could have changed their ways. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if they let me win over 50 years old, yes.

1:08:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And they are not doing what those words indicated, you know, at so fair. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to be initiated in that way. [SPEAKER_00]: If I'm just saying, loyal, always be ring ring ring this bell. [SPEAKER_00]: And then we get out of headmaster Charleston's office. [SPEAKER_00]: That is preferable.

1:08:44 [SPEAKER_00]: It just seems more interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: It seems interesting to be saying to be an LDB. [SPEAKER_01]: 100% honestly at the time. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I was just about to say. [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, I'd love to meet some boys. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm already being in a college.

1:08:55 [SPEAKER_00]: A college girl who meets these boys like Logan. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Please. [SPEAKER_01]: But also there's a part of me that would be like, I don't know if I can take you seriously. [SPEAKER_00]: If I'm just gonna have fun, different. [SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_00]: Can I take you seriously?

1:09:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually very not sure because I think of a metman like that in college. [SPEAKER_00]: I think the the allure is really just in the TV retelling of it. [SPEAKER_00]: I agree. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm real life. [SPEAKER_01]: I'd be like, I think you're a Yakuza.

1:09:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, follow up to that. [SPEAKER_01]: Would you rather jump off the scaffolding or be the pigeon getting shot out with a paint gun? [SPEAKER_00]: I thought you were going to say quivering the bell, no, different, different, different. [SPEAKER_01]: I would be the pigeon. [SPEAKER_01]: I think I would too, but I would want to make sure I have like a lot of protection.

1:09:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, getting shot with a ping ball gun can probably hurt, definitely absolutely 100%. [SPEAKER_00]: My brother has gone to do that before and he's come back with like, well, but yeah, I think that the distance helps. [SPEAKER_00]: And you're kind of just jump in and landing in the soft thing that it seems like you kind of just jump in, you know, either way you're jumping, but the scaffolding you could not pull me off of that to jump under any circumstances, no, no, no, I've been I have had the opportunity to bungee jump several times really.

1:10:12 [SPEAKER_00]: One time I got all the way up to the top and I said, actually, I'm doing good. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so done. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I will absolutely never do that. [SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_00]: I like my ankles too much to have them snap to like that.

1:10:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I agree. [SPEAKER_01]: But do I want to wear the dress? [SPEAKER_01]: So I get to be a pigeon in the dress? [SPEAKER_00]: Listen, I would imagine, yes. [SPEAKER_00]: I think those are dress code. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe one of the weirder things I've said on the podcast.

1:10:39 [SPEAKER_00]: It's true. [SPEAKER_00]: So you have a would you rather, I would do. [SPEAKER_00]: Would you rather break into Headmaster Charleston's office during the bell or break into the dining hall with Logan for cereal? [SPEAKER_01]: Which cereal are you kidding? [SPEAKER_00]: cereal! [UNKNOWN]: I don't know.

1:10:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, one of them, I feel like, is, are you allowed to be in either of these places? [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: But cereal. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, are they okay? [SPEAKER_01]: Why is going to take me inside? [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'd be a little scared, but I'm going to be scared either way.

1:11:08 [SPEAKER_01]: So I might as well have a boy with me. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, again, might as well have a cute, I don't know why this felt like, I was like, ooh, like, is this a good, good, what you'd rather? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you're going to go break in and like, I don't know, be it school at night time.

1:11:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I was looking at it like I was like, you know, this could be, this could go either way for me. [SPEAKER_00]: But now that I'm like reading it back, I'm like, I'm like, I'm going to zero with Logan. [SPEAKER_01]: I want to go find my ice creams out. [SPEAKER_01]: Of course. [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

1:11:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my last one. [SPEAKER_01]: Would you rather be the girl who is desperate to be a puff, but can't get an end? [SPEAKER_01]: Or force to become a puff, kind of against your will, with no interest in being the sorority? [SPEAKER_00]: Um, is my friend the one who's being forced in if I'm the one who's trying to desperately get in?

1:11:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, here's the thing. [SPEAKER_00]: Can I be so honest about myself? [SPEAKER_00]: I would love to be the person who's forced in, but in high school, I would have been the one who desperately won't be in. [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. [SPEAKER_00]: Would have like wanted any way in, like in any way, shape or form.

1:12:11 [SPEAKER_00]: So adult me, probably forced in. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, depending on what like it's going on. [SPEAKER_00]: If it really is just the puffs, I think it don't, me, would have just been forced in. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: High school me, you best believe she's probably. [SPEAKER_00]: I would have been periscolor.

1:12:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me in. [SPEAKER_01]: 100% banging on the doors. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, those doors just seems to be me standing against the wall while they are at the table. [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, my last one is would you rather be kidnapped in the middle of the night in your pajamas and know about it like know that you're being kidnapped because they told your mom about it.

1:12:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Mom, my kidnappers are here or kidnapped and not told it's an overnight thing and then have to spend the night at this event. [SPEAKER_01]: I think the first I like knowing and like being prepared, yeah, I think that obviously I prefer the life and death brigade event to what happens with the puffs, but if we're just speaking circumstentially, I would rather know.

1:13:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, then I'm getting kidnapped. [SPEAKER_00]: Because you know, I like always think about that. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, okay, so she doesn't have a toothbrush. [SPEAKER_00]: She doesn't have fresh underwear. [SPEAKER_00]: How is she going to take her makeup off? [SPEAKER_00]: How's she going to put a makeup on the next day for that event?

1:13:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Like there's just too many things like, does she have her heating pad? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't travel light. [SPEAKER_00]: So like, for someone to not tell me this is an overnight thing. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, what about my medication? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's you needed to have told, we're turning around.

1:13:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm turning this escalator round from my blindfold. [SPEAKER_00]: Bye. [SPEAKER_00]: knowing that you wake up and there's like a ball gown under your eyes. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it is really nice. [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a kind of tuxedo that you're like kind of crushing on, waiting outside the, your little glamped tent.

1:13:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it was your dress size. [SPEAKER_01]: He guessed it correctly. [SPEAKER_00]: He guessed it correctly. [SPEAKER_00]: You get to go have a fun day. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I still pick the first one. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Me too. [SPEAKER_00]: I can't deal with not knowing. [SPEAKER_00]: even when I went to jury do you do the day the day before my mom and sister drove me to the courthouse showed me where I was going to park and the door was going to walk into.

1:14:07 [SPEAKER_00]: So like I'm not good with like a not knowing situation. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't do well with not knowing things either. [SPEAKER_01]: It was famously something about me that I just [SPEAKER_01]: I get very overwhelmed if I get a volume of variations. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess much as I would love to live in the moment.

1:14:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's just have an overnight event. [SPEAKER_00]: I come with too many accessories to just be like, Oh, I didn't tell you this was overnight. [SPEAKER_01]: No, we have to go back. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Like totally. [SPEAKER_01]: I can't do this. [SPEAKER_01]: No, I would be the same way.

1:14:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I think overall like I would be really curious if the best use at home had a preference to the puffs versus life and death brigade after this conversation because I think initially the like the puffs versus life and death brigade poll that we did on our Instagram story was very heavily in favor of the life and death brigade.

1:14:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Like yeah, even in the first like five minutes of it it was like so split that I was like Oh, why did I even post this? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know but it is one of those things where like I feel like once you talk about it out loud and you kind of do those which you rather as you put yourself in the situation You're like oh, oh, I want to do [SPEAKER_00]: What would I want to do as it turns out I want to stay home in my dream as I don't want to go out into the woods Yeah, no, I don't know.

1:15:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it's always if you enjoyed this episode feel free to leave us a five-star review on apple podcasts or Spotify wherever you listen to your podcasts and be sure to subscribe to us on [SPEAKER_01]: You too, we're having so much fun over on YouTube. [SPEAKER_01]: I love always our video episodes especially with our guests It's a lot fun if you were with us for Emily Henry a couple of weeks ago It was so much fun to just chat with her but the visual representation of that is really cool.

1:15:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels like you're there You know, it really feels like you're that and that one you'd be the fourth host because it's true So third and that one [SPEAKER_00]: you take the fourth spot. [SPEAKER_01]: Next week is Labor Day and usually on Labor Day it kind of falls right on our back to school week, but this year because it falls a little later, we are going to be talking about working relationships.

1:16:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to have more to say on that in the next episode.