Ep330: Questioning the Scientific Study of Tantra - Dr Tawni Tidwell, Dr Michael Sheehy, & Dr Julian Schott

This trialogue continues a series of discussions exploring the latest interdisciplinary research into tantric completion stage practices such as yogas of dream, sleep, and death.

Dr Tawni Tidwell is a biocultural anthropologist and doctor of traditional Tibetan medicine.

Dr Michael Sheehy is the Director of Research at the Contemplative Sciences Center in the Department of Religious Studies in the University of Virginia.

Dr Julian Schott is an Indologist, Tibetologist, and assistant professor at the University of Vienna.

In this episode, the panel explore the ethical and methodological challenges of the studying Buddhist tantra; consider the various agendas behind scientific research into meditation, gtummo, and dream yoga; and argue for the centring of human liberation alongside human wellness and profit motives.

Dr Sheehy presents his working model for achieving contemplative fluency across a range of meditation styles, suggests that scientific study of meditation can be seen as a type of cultural translation, and considers the use of etic frameworks and methods to study religious and cultural forms.

Dr Tidwell argues for the validity of subjective experience, Dr Schott points out the tensions within religious traditions, and the panel consider if neuroscience might one day teach Buddhism something new about itself.

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Topics include:

00:00 - Intro
02:11 - Why study tantra with science?
04:01 - Complexity of tantra
05:10 - Skills and transformations
05:50 - Michael’s meditation model of “instances and styles“
08:48 - Multi-modular styles and ngondro
11:17 - Contemplative fluency
13:58 - gTummo and overriding the autonomic nervous system
16:21 - 2 reasons why Vajrayāna is said to be the fast path
17:55 - Why is tantra so complex?
19:37 - Pushing to one’s limits is key to tantra
22:29 - 3 classic contemplative approaches in Buddhism
25:27 - Radical transformation and social transgression
27:56 - A tension within the tradition
29:03 - Changing practice along the path
31:04 - Sādhanā is not linear
34:25 - Critical challenges when studying tantra
35:41 - The importance of neurophenomenology
39:44 - Scientific vs traditional explanatory frameworks
43:28 - Relative and the absolute
46:08 - Transmitted blessings
48:07 - Trust in the traditions
50:33 - Moving beyond the traditions with science
52:38 - A second order, cultural translation
54:58 - Paradox of the paradigm
56:26 - Defending the etic perspective
58:06 - Multi-disciplinary teams
59:37 - The fundamental academic principle
01:01:58 - Pros and cons of the etic and emic
01:03:16- Will science improve the Buddhist tradition?
01:04:56 - Neuroplasticity and aging
01:06:50 - Reshaping Buddhism is imperative
01:09:26 - A cultural-religious looping effect
01:13:13 - Dream yoga training with VR
01:18:50 - Secular extraction approaches and making the traditions better
01:21:25 -MBSR and Healthy Minds
01:22:57 - Subjective experience is valid
1:25:16 - Human freedom beyond the social and political
01:31:59 - Admitting the religious aspect
01:34:07 - Prioritising human freedom
01:35:48 - A reflexive process
01:37:09 - Is scientific study for the good?
01:38:30 - Future episode plans

Previous panel discussions:
- guruviking.com/search?q=sheehy

Previous episodes with Dr Julian Schott:
- guruviking.com/search?q=schott

To find our more about the panel, visit:
- michaelrsheehy.com
- centerhealthyminds.org/about/people/tawni-tidw…
- stb.univie.ac.at/en/about-us/team/julian-schot…

For more interviews, videos, and more visit:
- guruviking.com

Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James