2039 St Augustine Lighthouse and Fox Hollow Farm

0:00 This podcast is part of the Dark Myths Collective.

0:03 Visit darkmyths.org to discover more shows like this one.

0:07 The darkness awaits.

0:14 It's about to be a fun ride. Follow along, watch as we slide. Paranormal just hit the lights. Goosebumps all through the night. Mix in just a little bit of twang. That girl sure can't do a thing. Together, hillbillies go insane. Life's so hard, it'll hurt your brain. Podcast, you won't ever change. These two here, they got the recipe. Sit on back and listen in to some of our darkest mysteries.

0:37 Welcome to Hillbilly Horror Stories.

0:40 And now here's your host, Jerry and Tracy Pauly and their dog Ninja.

0:52 Hey guys, I'm Jerry.

0:53 And I'm Tracy from Hillbilly Horror Stories.

0:56 I am Shane Waters from the podcast Out of the Shadows.

1:00 And I'm Justin Rimmel from Mysterious Circumstances.

1:03 Damn, Justin, did you hear how proper and serious Shane was?

1:06 I guess when you're a guest on Nancy Grace and have 1,800 people listening to you at CrimeCon, you get real serious.

1:13 Okay, Shane, I need you to tell the people why we're doing this commercial, but I need it just as serious as your introduction. You can see all three of our shows live in Indianapolis on Saturday, July 28th. All right, Justin, tell them what time to be there and where they can get tickets.

1:28 Showtime is 7 p.m. to 10 p.m., and the cost is only $ 10. Seating is limited, so get your tickets now. Contact any of our shows on social media to buy tickets.

1:40 And guys, your ticket gets you unlimited access to all the shows involved.

1:44 Come out, take as many pictures as you want, and don't forget your free hugs.

2:29 Good evening everybody, my name is Jerry and this is episode 99 of Hillbilly Horror Stories and I'm joined as usual by my beautiful Brad Tracy.

2:38 Hello, everybody. Happy Sunday.

2:41 Tracy's got a little more pink in her hair than she did last week.

2:43 Pink up in my hair. Yeah. No, I don't know. Well, at least it's not fuchsia. Because that was really bad.

2:54 And a couple things, housekeeping things. We've got a really cool show for you starting tonight. But then next week is our 100th episode.

3:01 It's unbelievable. Unbelievable. Unbelievable.

3:07 It is kind of unbelievable. But we've got an extra special. That's an extra special. I'm just throwing up my bad English. An extra special show next week with some special guests that I'm not divulging until the day of the show. And we're going to do a topic that's been, I think since we started this thing, people have brought up.

3:29 And then I keep deciding that I'm going to put it off for a special occasion. And I think the 100th episode is a special occasion.

3:36 I wonder what it is.

3:38 I'm sure next week you'll still be wondering what it is.

3:40 I know.

3:41 That's the fun of it.

3:42 We're going to do.

3:42 I'm.

3:44 Not going to tell you. Never mind. I'll just wait.

3:46 You know you're going to end up saying it.

3:47 No, I'm not. I'm going to say... Look, have I said who the special guest was, even though we've had it planned for three or four weeks now?

3:53 No.

3:54 No.

3:54 But I know how you get antsy.

3:56 I know. But this is special, so I'm not going to tell it. So let's just talk about tonight's episode. We've got Andrea Whitney on from Editor-in-Chief from... Jasper Newsboy out in Texas. She wrote the article on us. She's been on several times. And she's got another doozy tonight. And I'm excited about that. We're going to talk about the Fox Hollow Farms in Indiana, which is a mixture of true crime and paranormal. She did a thesis on it.

4:22 And she's got interviews that she's done with the current owners. And if you're unfamiliar with this case, it's one that it's true crime mixed with paranormal. It's pretty awesome. It's kind of like the Lizzie Borden deal, except this was a lot more recent. This guy was a serial killer in Indiana back in the late 80s, early 90s, and found all kinds of bones and stuff on his property.

4:48 And so they're still trying to tie this guy to stuff, even though he was never brought to trial. But we'll get into full details when we get into that part of the show. We're going to start off tonight's episode with one of the most haunted, if not the most haunted lighthouse in the United States. the St. Augustine Lighthouse.

5:04 Sounds great.

5:05 Before we get into that, you probably heard the commercial with Justin and Shane Waters and myself. I had to tell you a little bit about that commercial first. So we decided we were going to do something and we had everybody send in their individual parts. So I wrote up a little script and I gave it to everybody and said, hey, record this and send it to me.

5:23 So we weren't obviously in the same room doing it or on the phone or anything doing it at the same time. So they left it up to me to put it together. And then when I listened to everybody, Shane's intro was so serious that I wrote Justin Rumble and I said, hey, I got a couple other lines for you to do real quick. So we kind of surprised Shane because the day that we put this together, the next day was his birthday.

5:44 Yeah.

5:44 So we thought it would be funny to make fun of how serious he was without him having a clue. So then we sent out the, didn't tell him any difference, we sent out the commercial to him and we didn't say anything about us making changes to it and we just waited till he responded. But I thought it was kind of funny. So we added all this stuff about him being serious and Justin's part about basically being serious because of being on Nancy Grace and stuff like that.

6:08 So I just thought it was funny.

6:10 It was fun.

6:10 Anyways, the whole point of that is we have a live event. It's in Indy. Most of you already know that. It's the 28th of July. But, and this is a very big but, if you have bought tickets already, we changed the venue on this. So it is no longer going to be at Wave One Studios due to some problems that were out of our control, some change of, I guess you could say, employees and stuff like that.

6:36 Things just got kind of, we thought a little bit screwed up, and we decided to move it to a different venue, but it's going to work out better for all of you. Here's the positives. It's going to be at Scotty's Brewhouse on the south side, and the address is on there, but it's on the south side of Indianapolis.

6:53 This place is cool. They've got awesome food. They've got craft beers. They've got a back room that they've graciously given us to use for this event. The negative is we don't have as many seats there. So there's about 26 seats left. So if you haven't bought your tickets yet, you want to go ahead and jump on it and buy it. They're only $ 10. You get all three shows.

7:15 And like the commercial said, it's just going to be a big hangout with all of us. So it'll be fun. That's the only negative to the whole part. It's going to be a lot more fun, and the food's going to be better, drinks are going to be better, because the other place didn't have any foods or drinks. We were basically going to have some coolers and some drinks and some popcorn, and that's what you were going to get.

7:34 So this is going to be 10 times better. But everything else is exactly the same, so I just wanted to let you know that if you do have tickets, that the venue did change, but it's for the better.

7:43 Great.

7:45 Also, before we get too far out, we also have the event... In Nashville, October 20th, Halloween season, can't get any better than that. Graveyard Tales, our show, Macabre Melts, who makes our candles, and I think they're making some for Graveyard Tales as well for that event. EVP Mediums out of Ohio are going to be there. They're going to tell us some of the stories that they've encountered during some of their, I guess, sessions at houses and paranormal investigating. So it's going to be a really cool show.

8:15 So you're going to get nothing but paranormal that night. And the best of all, it's a place called Hale Aesthetics. Most people know that as Hale Nashville. This place is freaky. It literally is like a museum of the weird, the macabre. Everything in that place is skulls, animals in jars. They've got, you know, skeletons of stuff. They've got books on the occult.

8:44 It is just a really cool place. So you can look up Hale Aesthetics. On the Google, that Google thing. And look at that up. And I think you'll be very impressed with this place. So we get to do this show inside. They're clearing off stuff in their showroom to make room to do this show in there. Oh, man.

9:01 That's going to be fun.

9:02 Yeah.

9:02 Very cool. So that's also $ 10. Mm-hmm. And both of those are up for sale. If you go to eventbrite.com and just pull up, search Hillbilly Horror Stories, you can see both of those shows.

9:13 Oh, cool.

9:13 Or go to all of our social media, and we've all posted it.

9:17 Mm-hmm.

9:18 There you go. What do you think?

9:19 I can't wait to see what all they have in that place.

9:22 It's cool.

9:22 Yeah.

9:22 It's just a bunch of cool stuff. I mean, it's like, you know, like the scene where in Psycho, where the guy walks in to sign for his room, and it's like the lobby's full of all the stuffed crows.

9:37 Oh, yeah, right.

9:38 It's got that kind of feel to it.

9:40 Oh, cool, man.

9:41 It couldn't be a better place for something like we're going to do.

9:44 We have to get us something creepy and bring home.

9:46 That definitely reminds me of my younger days. I used to bring creepy stuff home all the time. So first and foremost, we want to give a big thank you to all of our military and civil servants all over the world, no matter which country you are serving. Thank you so much for all you do.

10:00 Do.

10:00 God bless you. God bless you all. Praying for you every day.

10:03 I had a rough week. Actually lost two high school friends to suicide. So this is a little closer to home than normal weeks, even though it seems to always be out there. It's so prevalent these days. So I want to make sure we mention, you guys, if you need somebody to talk to, find somebody. There is always somebody willing to talk to you. And if you don't know anybody, use the suicide prevention line, 1-800-273-8255. I don't have the number written down here, but if you're a person that would rather text, just Google the text line for the same thing. And we'll have that on weeks going forward. We'll have that number out there. But, you know, there's always somebody who, is willing to help you if

10:51 you just give them an opportunity. And, um, like I said, we were more than happy to help you send us a message, give us a call, uh, write us an email, whatever you need to do. Doesn't matter what time of day or night it is. Trust me. If somebody knows that you're on the verge of doing something like that, they will make time for you, whether you think they will or not.

11:12 Yeah, absolutely. We love y'all.

11:16 All right. Let's, uh, let's go into our iTunes reviews.

11:20 We had a butt-ton. Butt-ton. Get it?

11:23 Butt-ton. That's not a unit of measurement. Not even in the metric system, it's not. Tracy, if you'd be so kind, go ahead and read off the iTunes reviews, please.

11:33 Rose Quinzel, TheBigFish54, Maybe Tomorrow, Gaming Unicycle Style, JimmyS87, RoloLikesFun, Chris Sloan, Harley Davidson, And I'm just going to spell this because I'm not sure how to pronounce it. So it's M-I-K-E-L-I-A-R-A-E. Thank you guys so much for your iTunes reviews. They have been so awesome. And we appreciate it. Keep it coming. And we have our Patreons for this week.

12:08 Tina Constant, Kathy Madison, Chuck Berry, and Claire Coomer. We appreciate you guys so much. When you guys get time, if you'd like to also go check out our new shirt design, we have. We were so gracious to have.

12:26 Rob Mulhorain.

12:27 Yes.

12:29 Paint that for us. And I still can't get over it. So we are putting them on T-shirts. And so far, so good. It's been a big hit already.

12:37 Yeah, we've already had some ordered today. I think they were members of Rob's family, though.

12:41 Oh, man.

12:42 They are so awesome. And we just love that picture so much.

12:45 So.

12:46 We're going to start putting them on some T-shirts, and we can't thank Rob enough for doing that for us.

12:50 Yeah, if you hear this and you go straight to the website, they're available in white, and then you can get them on mugs and phone cases and stuff like that. But if you give it a couple of days, I'll have it so you can get it on pretty much any color that you would want.

13:03 Oh, man, it looks so good on pink and teal, and it looks great on black. It just looks good, period. It just goes with everything.

13:10 Yeah, I'm just working on the file so I can put it on colors on that site.

13:13 Yeah, so exciting.

13:15 All right, so are we ready to jump into the St. Augustine lighthouse?

13:18 I am ready, babe.

13:20 Well, St. Augustine is known as the oldest city in the United States. And that says a lot because there's a lot of cities.

13:29 It sure is.

13:31 So it would make sense, obviously, that if it's one of the oldest cities, that it would be also the most haunted.

13:39 Well, that does make sense.

13:41 So when people think of haunted St. Augustine, one particular place, Location kind of usually stands out and comes to mind, and that is the St. Augustine Lighthouse. Jason Halls, you all know him from Taps and Ghost Hunters, he called it the Mona Lisa of paranormal sights. Whoa. And I think it's because it's got a crooked smile, but I'm not sure.

13:59 You think that's the reason?

14:00 You might not have anything to do with it. I think it's because its eyes follow you when you go from.

14:07 That would be cool.

14:08 So let's look at some history of how this lighthouse came to be. This lighthouse was built in 1974, and it's the oldest brick structure in St. Augustine. The lighthouse, as you see it now, though, wasn't the first lighthouse that was on this property. There's been a structure of some sort going all the way back to the 1500s to help guide ships in from the Atlantic Ocean. So the first was made of wood, and it was about 40 feet tall. It had an old-fashioned lamp and a bunch of different flags hanging off of it to kind of draw attention to it. It was believed to be constructed by the Spanish when they came over to the area.

14:49 And in 1586, Sir Francis Drake attacked the area, and the original lighthouse caught fire and burned down.

14:58 Aw.

14:59 The Spanish still needed some kind of lighthouse there, so they built a newer, more modern one. I guess as modern as you could be for the 1600s.

15:06 Yeah.

15:07 It was still made of wood, though, and it served its purpose. But the residents there kind of felt like that they needed something a little more stable.

15:15 Yeah.

15:15 It's not going to last forever. So in the 1700s, a new tower was built using, I think this is called Coquina, or it might be Coquina. Anyways, it's a building material that's made of small shell fragments. I guess it would make sense, since you're right there on the ocean, you would have a lot of small shells that I guess they grinded up and made.

15:37 Oh, that's cool.

15:37 Whatever this product is. So this was just a little north of the second wooden tower, the one that was built after the first one burnt down. In 1763, the British invaded, and they took possession of the tower. And they added a little more height to it and added a cannon system up on top for basically protection. So if they seen any dangerous ships or anything coming in, they could shoot them down with the cannon.

16:02 How in the heck do you get a cannon all the way up there? Is that what you just said?

16:06 Yeah.

16:06 Well, I mean, I don't know. Maybe they assembled it up there.

16:09 Oh, that makes sense, but man.

16:12 In 1821, the United States took possession of the state of Florida and the lighthouse. The U.S., I like the structure, but they wanted to make a few changes. So they hired its first ever light keeper. His name, now this is going to be a little tricky because everything I've ever seen listed his name as Joseph Andrau. I think that's his name, A-N-D R-E-U. It could be Andrew. Joseph Andrew.

16:40 But there were a couple of sites that listed his name as Juan Antonio Andrew. So I don't know if his name is Joseph or Juan, so I'll give you both names. Juan knows these things, but I don't know it. He took the job very seriously. In 1859, unfortunately, he fell to his death while painting the outside of the lighthouse.

17:05 Oh, man.

17:06 Now, that lighthouse eventually eroded and fell into the ocean in 1880.

17:12 Wow.

17:12 They didn't build it as sturdy as they thought.

17:17 Well, I mean, it was sturdy, I guess. But you've got to realize, out on the ocean right there, all that salt and stuff, it just does a lot of damage to stuff.

17:26 That's very true.

17:28 So construction on the current lighthouse started in 1871. It was completed October 15, 1874. And then they built a house, a really nice house for the keepers. And that was built about two years later. Now a man by the name of, I'm going to butcher this, Hezekiah Pitty was hired to oversee the construction. And Mr. Pitty allowed his children that were there. Then obviously he's got young kids.

17:57 He's got four of them. They were bored. There's not a whole lot you could do. They didn't have, you know, game systems or none of that back in, the 1870s. So they were playing on the supply cart, and the supply cart would go back and forth from the tower, where it was constructing the lighthouse, down to the ocean, back and forth. I guess what would happen is ships would pull in, they would load up these carts, and then go from the ship up to the lighthouse. So it had a rail system set up. On July 10, 1873, tragedy struck. His two oldest children, daughter Eliza and daughter Mary...

18:34 drown when the cart rode down the track that hit the water and tipped over. It's supposed to have some brakes there that would stop it. But when it hit that break, it caused it to tump over.

18:48 So they were both riding in it.

18:50 They were playing in it. That's what he allowed them to do is be able to play, um, back on this thing because they just wouldn't a whole lot for him to do.

18:57 Way to go dad.

18:58 So it hits that break. It tumps over. And when it does, uh, they're trapped in the water with this big cart over top of them. And they were trapped there until a worker could get there and lift the car off of them. Unfortunately, they drowned to this accident. Now, his other two children, Edward and Carrie, were also on board, but they survived the accident. I don't think their cart tumped over. I think there was a couple of carts.

19:24 That's terrible.

19:26 Now, there's a lesser-known fact of this story, and I thought it would be important to bring it up, It didn't get reported at the time. It wasn't in any of the newspapers or anything like that. But there was also a 10-year-old African-American girl there who was also killed. I don't have a name for her. I just felt like that she wasn't mentioned in any of the newspaper articles or anything at the time. the time it's almost like she didn't exist or it didn't matter and i just thought it would be important to at least give her a little bit of.

19:56 Attention now so you don't know how did she die.

19:59 She was oh in the car she was in the car too oh gosh it's just a In the newspaper article where it talked about it, they didn't even talk about her.

20:06 Well, that's dumb.

20:06 So I don't know if they were just trying to cover it up or if they were just saying that she didn't matter. But either way, I just thought she needed a little bit of attention and I was going to give it to her.

20:15 Well, good.

20:16 I wish I could hug her.

20:18 In 1936, the lighthouse had plumbing and electricity installed. That's exciting.

20:23 That is exciting.

20:24 Dang.

20:24 In 1955, the light became automated.

20:29 And in 1960, the structure was completely abandoned because once it's automated, they have no need for light keepers.

20:36 Oh, that kind of shot them in the foot.

20:39 Right. In 1971, someone set the lighthouse on fire.

20:43 What is the point of that?

20:44 I don't know. And that made the Historic Society decide that they wanted to take over the lighthouse. They did some restorations to it, to the lighthouse and the keeper's house, and they opened a public park and a museum there. So that's what it is today. And you can take several tours, including a haunted tour. How about that? That's the history. So let's talk about the ghosts. The first paranormal topic we're going to discuss is the fact that many think that spirits are drawn here because they see this structure as like a beacon of hope for people.

21:21 So literally, it is a beacon. But some people think it's a beacon of hope who lost their lives at sea.

21:28 Oh, that's nice.

21:29 Yeah.

21:29 It's said that the light actually guides the spirits who are wandering aimlessly around the sea onto the grounds.

21:36 That's a good thing.

21:38 Many paranormal researchers claim that data suggests that these spirits linger around here longer than most places and that the grounds of the lighthouse has a very large number of spirits attached to it.

21:52 Hmm.

21:53 It's believed that the land that the lighthouse is on is also a burial ground for several individuals. There was one case where 13 pirates were captured and murdered on the site. Oh, gosh. Well, they were bad people, and they had committed some crimes, and their penalty was death. And they were buried there on that site, and rumor has it that several bones turned up when they were building the keeper's house, and that's how they found out about it. There's hauntings, obviously, all over the lighthouse, but some of the main ones were in the basement. And most people believe that the hauntings in the basement are said to be the spirits of these pirates.

22:35 There's a basement in the lighthouse?

22:37 Well, I guess technically it's not really in the lighthouse. It's in the keeper's house.

22:40 Oh.

22:42 There may be a basement in the lighthouse, too, but I know there's a basement in the keeper's house.

22:46 So they think it's the spirits then from.

22:48 The pirates and stuff. And I guess that would make sense because they found those bones when they were digging the ground.

22:53 For the keeper's house.

22:55 One of the more prominent ghosts that's seen on a regular basis is the original keeper that we talked about earlier, Joseph Andro, the one who fell to his death while he was out there painting. So he's seen quite often. He just kind of roams the grounds. There's another keeper by the name of William Harned, who in 1889, he also passed away on the premises. Now, he died from tuberculosis.

23:19 And in 1894, his wife also passed away here. They are both seen on the grounds on a regular basis, usually together. There's also a story of a local man who lost everything in the stock market crash and the Great Depression in the late 20s, roughly around 1929. He committed suicide by hanging himself in the rafter of the lighthouse keeper's house. That's kind of not really been officially documented.

23:50 But many think that that's one of those deals where it happened, but it was kind of kept hush-hush because they didn't want the negative publicity for the area.

24:00 Lots of going on around that lighthouse.

24:01 Yeah. Even though there's no physical evidence that that suicide took place, people who experienced the spirit there, they know that it happened. And they said that this man is still there and he's sad with the events that ended his life. Many see... a figure dangling at nighttime in the air, just dangling.

24:25 Oh, gosh.

24:25 On nights of, like, really bad storms or bad weather coming in.

24:29 Oh, I wouldn't want to see that.

24:32 Now, the most documented case at the lighthouse happened back when the Discovery Channel was filming a story there. Several people from the production crew said they saw an apparition of a man that looked like a mist walking on the second floor of the keeper's house. They also smelled cigar smoke throughout the house and in the lighthouse. They also saw specks of light in the lighthouse and heard some unusual noises and no cause was ever found for any of it. But it's like I said, this is actually a film crew there and several people saw the exact same thing.

25:10 Now that's pretty cool that they all saw that at once.

25:13 As you could guess, there's some children that haunt the lighthouse.

25:17 Mm-hmm.

25:17 One of these children is a child who was hit by a train in the early 1900s.

25:22 Wait. You said one of them is a children's that or something funny.

25:28 I don't know.

25:28 It sounds funny. I don't know.

25:30 Sorry. I know.

25:31 I said one of the children's, but I didn't think anybody was going to catch it, but you had to call me out on.

25:36 It.

25:36 So this child was hit by a train in the early 1900s.

25:45 How's there a train by the lighthouse?

25:46 I have no idea.

25:48 Oh.

25:49 I didn't get that far into it. And I don't know why that, I don't know, maybe he just liked to go there all the time.

25:53 I don't know.

25:54 I have no idea. The most obvious are the two little girls that died during the construction of the lighthouse. Small girls are said to walk around the grounds and they leave their little footprints in the sand.

26:06 Aww.

26:06 I don't know, it's adorable. It is adorable. They're seen watching individuals from the windows and they've also been seen in the halls of the house.

26:16 Hmm.

26:18 I just think it's so interesting how, I mean, just all these spirits just hang around.

26:23 I don't, you know.

26:24 Well, I could definitely think of worse places to hang around than a beautiful beach, ocean side in Florida.

26:31 Well, that's true. I just, I mean, I know it sounds stupid, but you just think they might venture out somewhere else. But I guess they only want to stay where they're familiar with.

26:41 So there's, the little girls we talked about, they can also be heard laughing at the top of the lighthouse.

26:47 Mm-hmm.

26:47 That's pretty cool.

26:48 Yeah.

26:48 They had some good times and stuff.

26:51 You know?

26:52 Eliza, when she passed away, she was the oldest of the daughters. She was actually wearing a blue dress at the time. And they say that you can see a little girl in a blue dress just kind of floating around the lighthouse.

27:07 Wow.

27:09 Makes me sad. But happy in a way.

27:13 Right, they're still enjoying something.

27:15 Yeah, they're still enjoying something, yeah.

27:17 One of the first light keepers was a gentleman by the name of Peter Rasmussen, and he was known for his love of cigars. And this would explain the smell of cigar smoke on a regular basis, even though smoking is not permitted on the grounds of the lighthouse.

27:32 Hey.

27:34 Wonder. Nah.

27:36 Maybe he caught the White House. White House.

27:38 The White.

27:40 Maybe he caught the lighthouse on fire.

27:43 Could be.

27:43 You know what I'm saying?

27:44 He could have been careless. And it was a wooden structure.

27:46 He could have.

27:47 No, it wasn't wooden back then.

27:49 Oh.

27:50 Anyways.

27:51 Ain't no cigar worth that anyway. They're terrible.

27:54 Paranormal investigators have heard disembodied female voices asking for help. They have heard footsteps and seen shadow people on the stairs.

28:03 Mm-hmm.

28:04 I wonder how big it is inside a lighthouse, though.

28:09 I mean.

28:09 It's not really big. And I got some pictures that. or posted on Facebook that'll give you an idea from the inside, but it's not a real big, which is why they had a keeper's house.

28:20 Oh, well that makes sense.

28:21 Okay.

28:21 I kind of, but in some, a lot of lighthouses don't have a keeper's house.

28:25 Yeah. So they were lucky. Yeah.

28:27 Right.

28:28 I'd like to see inside one though.

28:29 Matt Hladik, H L A D I K. I'm sure I butchered that. He's a guide for a, a dark of the moon tours. They give a bunch of haunted tours of the, um, Lighthouse, he said that he's had many different experiences. He's only like 21 years old, too.

28:46 Oh.

28:47 How many experiences can you have?

28:48 21.

28:48 Come on. Hey, I wonder how many stairs it is in there.

28:52 That's coming up.

28:53 Oh, yay.

28:56 He said that he's seen shadow figures in the tower. He's seen furniture move. And he said that he's even seen a hand coming through the tower door.

29:06 Like just right through the door?

29:07 I guess like a, you know, like a. See-through type hand.

29:11 Mm-hmm.

29:12 He said that he's had some hairs plucked out when he was in the basement of the keeper's house. Remember, that's where the pirates are. I don't know if the hairs were plucked out of his booty.

29:25 Booty hole.

29:26 Or maybe it was out of his arm.

29:28 Oh, that was good.

29:30 No, it wasn't, and we'll.

29:31 Hear about it.

29:31 That was so good.

29:32 Anyway, he said that while he was in the middle of a tour one time that a hand grabbed his ankle and it made him trip. but it was like an invisible hand, so it made him look like he just tripped on air and fell in front of people.

29:45 That would have been so laughed.

29:46 That would have been funny. The Dark of the Moon tour started as a Halloween seasonal thing and became so popular that it became a full-time gig.

29:54 Oh, very cool.

29:55 It's so popular that the tours hold 50 people, and they regularly sell out. That's a lot of people coming.

30:01 St.

30:02 Augustine has eight different companies that offer ghost tours. That's how haunted this place is. I mean, like, Louisville's got one.

30:09 Yeah.

30:10 They've got eight.

30:11 That's crazy.

30:13 The lighthouse became a very hot paranormal topic back in 2005 when ghost hunters, taps, came to town. Jason Halls, Grant Wilson. Jason and Grant were fascinated about a place, and some really hardcore ghost hunters came from all over the world come to this place just to check out the lighthouse. It's really cool.

30:34 Very, very cool.

30:36 A couple of quick ones to kind of end on. Visitors report a young girl in period clothing looking out the lighthouse door or just kind of standing by an upstairs window. In 2009, a cell tower technician took a picture of his co-worker with the lighthouse in the background. The figure of a young girl in a long black dress and long hair can actually be seen standing alone on the top of the observation deck.

31:03 Like she's waiting for somebody. Like she's waiting for her love.

31:07 It looks to me more like she's sitting with her legs dangling down, but maybe that's just me. But I've got a picture of that that we also posted. And then there's a man in blue that's basically terrifying people. This guy's like kind of a jerk, but anybody who's worked or lived in the house has seen him and it's freaked some people out. This entity will follow you down all 219 stairs from the top of the lighthouse down to the bottom.

31:38 That is a bunch of stairs.

31:41 One lighthouse keeper was so scared that he refused to live there any longer. He eventually was able to switch duties with another member of the Coast Guard who wasn't afraid of ghosts. So many think that the man... In blue is actually Joseph Andro, the first keeper. St. Augustine Lighthouse has about 200,000 visitors per year, and it still has the original Fresno lens from 1874. Oh, very cool.

32:11 370 handmade prisms in that lens. And it just recently had some stuff done on it. The tower gets painted every five to seven years. And that is the story of the St. Augustine Courthouse. Or a lighthouse.

32:24 What are you saying?

32:25 Or a courthouse. I don't know.

32:26 Oh, my God.

32:27 I have no clue what I'm saying.

32:29 Sorry, folks. He's extra bald-headed today. I guess that's what's happening.

32:35 Too many houses. You've got a keeper's house, lighthouse, courthouse, the White House. You didn't say the White House.

32:40 I know I did. But, you know, that's cool that they had another house to live in. I mean, that was really nice.

32:46 And what do you see pictures of this thing? This was a.

32:48 Really, really nice house.

32:49 This is like a big two-story house. Victorian style.

32:53 Oh, wow.

32:54 I said Victorian. I don't know my, I don't know my Orient.

32:56 Well, you know.

32:57 It may not be Victorian. It might just be a big, nice two-story house.

33:00 Well, that's true. But hey, it's better than sleeping in that and having to climb up 200 and something daggone stairs every time you, that, no, I couldn't do that.

33:09 I don't think you have to climb up the stairs all the time. There's not a big need for you to be up in the top all the time.

33:15 Oh.

33:15 You just got to go up there occasionally to make sure the lights are still working.

33:17 Oh, that's true. That just seems like a bunch of wasted stairs.

33:22 Yeah.

33:23 Why'd they put an elevator in that biatch?

33:25 I don't think there was a lot of elevators going on back in 1874. I'm sure they had them. Going up.

33:29 Going down. What the hell?

33:32 All right. So, as promised, Andrea Whitney.

33:39 Oh, we love you, honey. We love you so much.

33:42 Oh, and I'm not going to say it.

33:45 Don't say it.

33:46 I'm not because she'll get mad at me. Anyways, we're just going to say the number was 208 And she'll know what that means. Nobody else will know what it means, but she'll know what it means. And that's just going to be enough to make us laugh. So anyways, Andrea Whitney came on. This is her fourth appearance. That's more than anybody else. The only people that's been on more, just by coincidence.

34:09 It's me.

34:10 Yes, you.

34:12 But Lee Sowell from Don't Break the Oath because... He's been on, he was on the thing we did with Phil Holmes with the Loch Ness. He did that little bit a couple of weeks ago. And then I had him on individually and then him and Andy were on way back in the day when we did Rendlesham Forest.

34:29 Yes.

34:29 So Andrea, this is her fourth time being on.

34:31 Well, we're so happy to have her. She's such a sweetheart.

34:34 Yep.

34:35 So this is going to be a cool story. Like I said, you guys will love this. She gets into details as she does in all of her stories. So let's listen a little bit about Fox Hollow Farms. We are joined by a special guest. You've heard her on the show. This is her fourth appearance, which is more than any other guest we have. And she's on so much because you guys really love her. And it's Andrea Whitney.

34:56 She's the editor-in-chief for the Jasper Newsboy in Jasper, Texas. Andrea, welcome back to the show.

35:01 Hey, Jerry. Hi, Tracy.

35:04 Thank you guys for having me on again. I feel like it's been forever. I love coming on, so I'm honored to be here again.

35:12 Well, before we get started on what we've got planned for tonight, I get asked all the time if there are any other developments in the situation with your friend that you were doing the research on that committed suicide in the school parking lot. So do we have any new developments on that situation?

35:31 Actually, we do.

35:33 There were some comments that were made on the Hillbilly Horror Stories group and some, Jerry, that you shared with me. And one of them, I think it was a gentleman, I'm not sure, I don't remember, but he made the comment, you know, I hope it works out well for her. I just don't think she's really ready to kind of face what happened. And I thought, you know what, I do.

35:58 I am ready, and I've got to get this done. So I started once again. I wiped this, literally, I have a whiteboard in.

36:07 My office, and I wiped it clean.

36:10 And I started from three months prior to his death up until after his death. And I comprised, compiled everything into an outline, every reason why I thought this, this couldn't have happened the way that it happened from the fact of the police that were cited surrounding the school right after.

36:36 It happened for, you know, and then, saying that it was a drill.

36:41 From different comments that were made, I could not, there was not a 911 call placed.

36:46 And I put it all in an outline.

36:49 I made probably 200 copies of it. I put them all in binders. And I began just hounding law enforcement, hounding them, hounding them. And with some hope and my fingers crossed, I am hoping that that they may reopen it.

37:08 I can't say that they will.

37:09 I hope they do for the simple fact that he deserves justice. And I just, if you knew some of the things that, like Jerry, you and I have talked about, and there are some things and names that I just can't put out over the air, for lack of better words, it's so incredibly obvious. And he came to me for help.

37:33 As crazy as people may think I am, I won't let it go. So there haven't, I mean, there's been some new developments. They're taking a second look at the autopsy report. They are contacting some doctors that I had contacted prior for evidence and expert opinion. They're actually reaching out to these doctors. So hopefully we're going step one again.

38:00 And I'll just keep going until somebody tells me to stop.

38:04 And then I'll keep going even then.

38:07 Well, good luck with all that. I know it's something near and dear to your heart.

38:12 It's near and dear to my heart. But so are y'all.

38:16 Thanks.

38:17 On a happy note.

38:18 Let's bring forward to this story. Now, this is a very unique story in the fact that I was going to use this as a topic probably three or four months ago. It's almost impossible to find... very much information on the internet for something as big as this is. And I guess it just depends on where you look, but there's a documentary that was out. And at the time it was one of those you had to pay for on YouTube or something like that, wherever it was.

38:47 And I didn't have access to it. And basically that just means I was cheap and wouldn't go to pay like $ 3 to rent it. So the reality of it was I couldn't find enough information reading to do the story on it. So I just kind of let it go. But you brought it up to me the other day and said, hey, I've got all kinds of notes. I believe, didn't you say you did your thesis on this?

39:08 Yes, I did. I did one of my thesis.

39:11 I had to take a class in psychology, but it was called deviant behavior. And it was a, you know, it was a semester long course on, well, deviant behavior. And this is one of the, this is, I just, this case stuck.

39:28 Out to me.

39:29 And so I thought, you know what, I'm going to do my thesis on Herb Baumeister. And so I have tons of notes. You know, I spoke with law enforcement at the time. I actually spoke, you know, with several different people from neighbors to law enforcement just I do a lot of people. I was never able to speak with anyone on from Bowmeister's camp. Of course, that's, that's not surprising, but I was able to speak with Mr.

40:00 Graves.

40:00 I'm the owner of the home. And anyway, as we get into the story towards the end, I'll have some updates that haven't been, they haven't been publicized just because, you know, the story is kind of, it's kind of faded away, but I think that the readers might be interested to hear it.

40:17 So.

40:17 Can I give a brief synopsis of what we're talking about without stepping on your toes, do you think?

40:23 Yeah, you can.

40:24 I actually, yeah, are kind of a back story because that's what I've got is a back story.

40:28 So you go right ahead.

40:29 Well, I'm going to let you get into the details. I'm just going to tell people in general what we're talking about. We're talking about Fox Hollow Farms in Westfield, Indiana. How close is that to Indianapolis? Do you know?

40:42 It is probably 60, 70 miles is what I believe.

40:47 Okay, so it's not that far.

40:48 It's not that far.

40:50 Yeah, it's an 18-acre farm. And in the early 90s, Herb Baumeister lived there. He was a local guy, local business guy. Weird shit started happening. And he became the suspect in, I don't know, several people that became missing that they assumed were killed in the 80s and the 90s. So he got on him. He fled to Canada. And during the midst of him being gone, They found over 5,000 bone fragments on the property. They thought there was about as many as 17 different victims, but they could only properly identify five of them. And they think that most of the murders happened inside the house at the indoor pool that he had. But that's the basic background of this guy. But as we get into the story, you're

41:38 going to find out that this is one of those rare cases where where it's a combination of true crime, but it's also a lot of paranormal activity in the home and surrounding area right there. So with that being said, I'll turn it over to you, Andrea.

41:52 Okay, that sounds great. Yes, this is the story of Herb Baumeister. He was born in 1947. And this is just kind of a little bit of backstory. As we get into it, this kind of plays into the story. But when he was 11 years old, this is kind of disturbing, but when he was 11 years old, he started exhibiting, I guess you'd call it deviant behavior tendencies.

42:20 He had the trifecta, wetting his bed, playing with dead animals, doing things that Normal children shouldn't do. Like I said, when he was 11, he urinated on his teacher's desk. He was just one of those, definitely had some issues. Mom and dad took him to the doctor. The doctor, of course, said he would grow out of it. As time went on, even when he was as young as 17, it's kind of hard to find any information on it.

42:52 But there was a case of one of his friends who went missing, and this was supposed to be Baumeister's really good friend. They had been playing baseball in the park, and Herb came home. His friend did not come home. He was listed as a missing person. They never found the body. But as time went on, they have no physical evidence.

43:16 But You know, they wonder if that was part of it.

43:20 He attended college, dropped out, went back, and then in 71, I believe, he married Julia. And they had three children. And the marriage, of course, crumbled when the investigation started. Pretty much, Jerry, like you said, he was accused.

43:39 Of, I think the final number was 20.

43:41 Of 20 murders, these were all gay men who visited a certain district within Indianapolis. There was some bars that he would frequent. He went by the alias of Brian Smart. He actually, one of the victims had gone to the police. This was a guy named Brian Smart.

44:07 I went back to his home with him. My friend and I did.

44:11 He basically tried to kill me with a by strangling me with a pool hose and he said he killed my friend well that's what sparked off the investigation of course anybody knows anything about law if you don't have a body it's very hard to build a case so all of these men as they start looking into it these men are just going missing missing i mean we're talking one a week and They all seem somehow to tie back to this alias, Brian Smart. So the victim that survived went and decided to go back to the same bar. He actually followed Baumeister as he was bringing home another gentleman.

45:02 This was one of Baumeister's last known victims.

45:06 And he was the last known victim that got in the car with Baumeister was wearing a red T-shirt.

45:13 That's going to come into play later.

45:14 But the victim that escaped death followed Baumeister in his car so that he could get the license plate of this gentleman, Baumeister, who was going by the name of Brian Smart. He brought the license plate to the police. Police then Tie it back to Baumeister and the investigation kicks into high gear. Pretty much, Jerry, like you said, they found tons of bone fragments. To this day, they are still finding them. in and around the 18-acre property.

45:49 But Baumeister committed suicide and Flooded Canada committed suicide, so he was never tried for this. Now, switching gears over to present day, or we'll say, you know, the 90s, the Graves family moved into the house. And they're being shown a home. They wanted to flee the city for a quieter lifestyle. So they're, you know, going through the house.

46:12 The house is gorgeous.

46:13 I mean, indoor pool, Just beautiful, you know, just a beautiful ranch style home. And Rob Graves is like, gosh, you know, this place sure is, it's awful cheap. And then he got to thinking, wait a minute, is this the house that I've seen on the news? And so he asked the realtor, is this, you know, the Herb Baumeister home? And the realtor said, yes, yes, sir. That's why it's so cheap. Well, he spoke with his wife and they were like, you know what? We can handle this.

46:43 You know, it's okay.

46:44 It's over. It's gone. We can handle this. So they move in.

46:49 Everything is rocking along smoothly.

46:52 You know, they're renovating some parts of the home, making it their own.

46:56 And the first instance, which these are pretty well known on the internet, Mrs. Graves was vacuuming gravel up in the pool area. And she had her vacuum cleaner actually plugged into an extension cord and not directly into the wall. And the extension cord was probably one and a half feet from her. Her vacuum cleaner went off. So she turned and looked. The extension cord had become unplugged from the actual vacuum cleaner cord. But she plugged it back in and she's still vacuuming. It happens again. And she thought, okay, that's weird. Maybe I didn't plug it inside enough. So she goes back over there, she secures it, and she begins vacuuming again. And on the third time it came unplugged, she said, okay, no, that's it. I can't, you know,

47:48 I can't do this.

47:49 I'm freaked out.

47:51 So she decides that she's not going to vacuum anymore that day.

47:56 As they're moving in, things.

47:57 Are going, you know, they're going good, except for here and there, things would come up missing.

48:03 You know, just pieces of clothing here and there.

48:07 Just different things would come up that weren't right. The next thing that happened was Joe LeBlanc is going to enter the picture. Rob and Vicki Graves were very successful at their jobs. Rob was actually a car salesman. He had a good friend and colleague, Joe LeBlanc, who had a very long commute to get to work. And so he asked Joe, he said, hey, you know what? Why don't you come on and live in the guest house?

48:34 You know, nobody's there. It would, you know, put somebody there to kind of, you know, keep the place from running down.

48:41 Of course, Joe said, absolutely.

48:43 Now, Rob told Joe, hey, I want you to know that, you know, it's the Herb Baumeister home. And he said, oh, I don't care about that.

48:51 You know, I don't believe in all that. I don't care.

48:54 So he wasn't fazed by any of the history. And the whole apartment had actually been gutted. So everything was brand new. Now, Joe had a dog. His dog's name was Fred. So the very first night that they had moved in, Joe and Fred settled in for the night and they were going to watch a movie. But because Joe was so, he was just beat. He went right to sleep. This is the first night in this house, okay?

49:21 He has a dream. In this dream, he is running for his life. Those were his words. I was running for my life. He said, I didn't know what I was running from, but I knew something was chasing me and I had to get away. So he wakes up And he sits bolt upright in bed. And have you ever woken up from a dream, Jerry, where you're just, you still think you're in that dream. It takes you a little bit to kind of come back to reality.

49:52 Yeah.

49:53 Okay.

49:54 Well, that's what happened to him. And when he woke up, it was within a period of seconds, he hit the floor and started to run. He was still scared. And he hit the door frame. as he was running, and that, of course, woke him up. Well, it probably knocked him out first, but he woke up. He was on the floor.

50:15 He had glass in his hands. He was just, I mean, because he had run into the outer door. He still, even years later, he said, that was one of the scariest experiences I've ever had because I didn't know what I was running from. So he knew something was there then, But he just kind of pushed it to the side.

50:40 In the meantime, Vicki had come home from work one day. She had found her husband painting. She was looking around, you know, at his work, seeing what all he was doing. And she glanced kind of out of the corner of her eye and she saw something red. And she looked, there was a man in a red t-shirt standing in their yard. Now, she described this man as the.

51:06 look on.

51:07 His face because it wasn't very far. She could see it was straight out of plate glass window. So she had quite a view from the beginning. But she said she walked outside and she said the look of fear on his face is something that she's never seen before. So she started walking towards him and she realized that he doesn't have any legs. All she can see is head, shoulders, and torsos. but yet this man turns and runs towards the woods. I mean, she doesn't see his legs obviously, but this apparition goes towards the woods. She looked back at her husband. He had seen it and he joked about it and called it a serial killer groupie ghost, which was kind of tacky, but I mean, I guess.

52:01 You know, Hey, try to find humor in everything. Right.

52:05 Um, So they just, you know, Rob was like, okay, you know, maybe it was just, maybe it was a real person. And Vicki was like, no, I'm telling you, if it was a real person, then how the hell were they running? Because they had no legs. But Rob insisted on installing security cameras. They did install these cameras.

52:29 And Rob later said that it was something that he wishes that he'd would not have done in a way because the things that they caught on that security camera just made it to where he said he would go six, seven nights with no sleep because he would see things on the security camera. He would see like, he described it as white mist, but they had a human form.

52:57 He would see them moving. to and from the pool room. He would see bright lights along the fence line. He said there was anything and everything that you could see from lights to mist to clouds. He saw it, but it was, it wasn't something that he could explain away anymore.

53:18 So he began to realize, you know, we've really got something on our hands now.

53:23 Going back to Joe who's living in the guest house Joe was washing dishes one night and he heard somebody knocking on the door it was a very insistent knocking so he goes to answer it and he he doesn't see anything he looks around he still can't see anything he closed and locked the door but he said as he was locking that door he felt he said I felt something he said I felt like Just something wasn't right and there was someone there. I knew there was someone there. So he goes back to try to wash dishes and shake this feeling and he looks, he turns around because he hears the knocking again. He turns around and he sees a white mist and it grabbed his attention but he said within seconds it was gone. And

54:13 he looked down at Fred, his dog, who was acting fine. So he just kind of shook it off as, yes, it's a ghost, but as long as it just knocks on my door, I'll be okay, as long as it doesn't do anything else. Well, he decided, I think a couple of nights later, he was going to take his dog for a walk, and they would walk up and down the driveway. He heard something in the woods along the fence line. He looked down at Fred. Fred had stopped And he was doing that low growl that dogs do whenever they know something's there. And his eyes and ears are, you know, he's standing at attention.

54:54 As they walked back, his dog started running. He ran away.

55:00 And so as Joe turns to go chase the dog, he catches a glimpse of what Fred is chasing. And it's a man in a red T-shirt. He could see it because he had a flashlight. It was right at dusk, so it was not dark yet. But he still had his flashlight. And as he ran towards the woods, he turned on the flashlight and he said, I could see this man. He had reddish brown hair. He was an athletic build. He had on a red T-shirt. He said he was wearing a darker color, like Levi's style jeans.

55:35 I mean, he described this man to a T. And what is interesting is that the man he was describing was Ballmeister's last known victim. That is exactly what this guy was wearing when he disappeared. His alleged victim, I'll put it that way. So he's running in the woods. He finds Fred. Fred is standing there just growling. He lost sight of the gentleman in the red shirt, he said, for about 15.

56:04 20 seconds.

56:05 He said, but the closer he got to Fred, he could see him. And he came face to face with this man's, in this red t-shirt and there's not much i i've verified this years ago but since since then it's kind of disappeared off the internet but this man looked at him and said go that's all he said was just go and he said at that moment i turned around and i got my dog and i ran as fast as i could Back to the house. And so he's come face to face with this ghost. Vicki is having issues. Rob is not sleeping. You know, the kids actually had a party one night. Joe and his friend were there and Joe was actually almost. I guess you'd call it strangled by invisible hands. He was in the pool. All of a sudden, he said, I felt fingers.

57:06 I could feel each individual finger around my neck.

57:10 And he fought and fought.

57:12 And finally, when his friend jumped in, who was just dumbfounded at everything that was going on, whatever had Joe released him. He constantly had these issues with the door knocking.

57:25 There was one night where.

57:28 Joe had set up security cameras as well on the inside of his home and on the outside.

57:35 Well, he was watching.

57:37 He heard the knocking one night. He went outside. This time there was nothing there. He finally got back to sleep. But the next morning when he woke up to check the security cameras, you can see the door knocker. It was a big, heavy door latch. You know, those big metal ones. He said, you can see it. coming all the way up and slamming down. And he said it did that four times. He, Joe actually set up some EVP sessions. He would get growls and like guttural sounds, whispers, but nothing, no distinctive words.

58:16 He couldn't hear. I mean, you couldn't make anything out.

58:19 Yes.

58:20 The next thing would be Rob, Vicki and Joe decided that, Hey, let's go kind of, scope out our property. This is our property. Let's go digging around and see what we can find. The very first bone that they found, Joe found it.

58:36 It was a femur.

58:38 They dug it out of the leaves. It wasn't even buried, Jerry. It was sticking out of the leaves where you could actually see it with the naked eye. So I find that strange. I don't know if maybe they were meant to find that. They had kept looking and they found nine other bones, but I actually verified this with Mr.

59:01 Graves because it blew me away. They also found, probably within three feet of that femur, a red t-shirt. Wow. a, yeah, it was a red t-shirt that it was ripped kind of in the abdomen area. And Rob had said, it looked like, like if someone grabbed the front of your t-shirt, if you're in a fight and you turn to, to run away, and it rips. He actually, this t-shirt, I don't know if it was polo or something like that, but he actually traced it back to the date of this style of t-shirt. The date matches the same year that the last victim went missing. Was it his shirt?

59:46 I think so, but they turned everything over to authorities who were investigating it, They, you know, everyone knows that Baumeister pretty much would strangle his victims. He would then dismember them and bury them at different places within the home. Police then investigated it when, after Baumeister's suicide, the investigation kind of died off. But beforehand, Julia had allowed them access into the home. And these are seasoned law enforcement officers.

1:00:20 who have come in, I mean, they even had the FBI come in, and every one of those officers said, when you walk in that pool area, you just feel it.

1:00:33 It's evil. They said, you can feel the evil.

1:00:36 So, like I said, after Baumeister's suicide, they kind of, they kept looking. Like you said, they found over 52 bone fragments. They actually came along, I believe, not even 10 years ago, I believe they still found, you know, they're constantly finding them. But he's believed to have killed, you know, 20 people was the last number that I had.

1:01:03 He did the same thing to each one of these victims. He strangled them. He dismembered them and buried them. And everything was done. All of those murders were done in jail. pool, that indoor pool area. There's been several paranormal investigators that have gone in there. I'm sure, Jerry, you've seen a lot of their quote evidence. Some of it was a little far-fetched to me. I tend to lean more on the side of, you know, evidence. For me, that red t-shirt blew me away. I mean, someone out there, you know, put that there. I say someone, I mean a ghost.

1:01:40 I do believe that place will constantly, I don't think it will ever not be haunted because like one of the law enforcement officers said, it's pure evil. Baumeister lured these men knowing that he was going to kill them, knowing that they weren't going to go home at night. So I do believe that every one of those victims is probably still there. And I think they will continue to haunt the premises for as long as, I mean, until they can get answers. And the sad thing is, is that this case has gone cold and there's no new updates since 1999, I believe is the last update.

1:02:22 That kind of That leads to a definite haunting, I would think. But that's the story of Fox Hollow Farm.

1:02:30 Well, and then, you know, like you said, when the heat got turned up, he fled to Canada.

1:02:36 Canada and committed suicide.

1:02:38 Yeah, and his attorney was trying to find him because he had a divorce going on during all this. And the attorney ended up contacting a judge saying he couldn't find his client. But that's when they found his body after he had killed himself. He left a suicide note, but he didn't mention anything in the suicide note about the deaths or anything.

1:02:58 He didn't.

1:02:59 He apologized to his wife. Jerry, what exactly did.

1:03:03 I don't.

1:03:03 Remember what his reasoning was. I say reasoning. I know he apologized to Julia. Did he mention financial distress as a reason? I don't remember what the reason was.

1:03:15 Yeah, I don't remember the suicide note. I just know that he didn't make any mention or any confession. at all of anybody that was missing. But like I said, there were people all over the Midwest from the 80s and the 90s that were missing that, you know, they think he had a part of going all the way back to, like you said, even his friend at an earlier time in life. So there's no tellings how many people were actually involved in this. It could be, you know, 30, 40, 50 people for all anybody knows.

1:03:42 Right.

1:03:43 I mean, documented, it's from 1980 to 1996. But like you said, Jerry, when he was as young as 16, 17, you know, who who knows how many missing, you know, missing persons could be attributed to this. And, you know, of course, it's that area is going to be haunted. I, you know, of course, I would love to actually get my hands on it and do some hands on investigating from the paranormal.

1:04:10 Side of it.

1:04:10 But at the same time, you know, that this story is one of those that, you know, it's been years since.

1:04:16 I did it. But I dug out all my.

1:04:18 Notes and going over it, even just this evening, Jerry, before we talk, it gives me the chills.

1:04:25 I mean, this one creeped me out. And I don't know if it's because there's a.

1:04:29 True crime aspect to it, but if you think about it, the majority of our hauntings that are discussed on Hillbilly Horror Stories kind of tie back to a murder or a sudden death. And I think that's why places are haunted because these people want answers.

1:04:48 Cruelty in general. I mean, like we were talking earlier off the air about our trip to New Orleans and Places we wanted to visit. When you talk about Madame Lalaurie's house, I mean, it was torturing of slaves. When you talk about Myrtle's plantation, once again, it involves cruelty to slaves and killing of children, which we'll believe what we want to believe because most people say that's just a fictitious story. But a lot of these stories, you know, they do change. tend to lead back to some kind of cruelty, whether it be murder or just in general.

1:05:22 Exactly.

1:05:23 And I think that a lot of times people, if it involves cruelty or especially, you know, children, things like that, people will just, they'll push it away and, no, that didn't happen.

1:05:36 That's not true.

1:05:38 But the fact is that if you look into the majority of these cases, they go back to a violent death, violent or sudden or... you know, someone that died at the hands of evil, you know, whatever that evil may be, man or woman.

1:05:56 Andrea, as usual, I really appreciate you coming on, but you're working on another show that we've actually been working on together for.

1:06:05 Months now, but you're... And I'm so excited.

1:06:08 One time when we were talking, I mentioned the fact that I bet these, uh, some of these law enforcement officers would have some cool stories and you've gathered five or six and some of these guys are sheriffs and, and, and higher ups in the, uh, police departments, and we're going to put together a show that's nothing but their paranormal stories.

1:06:27 And what I'm looking forward to is that I have one for sure who is actually going to conference in with us, and he is going to tell you the story in his own words. And that's what I'm looking forward to. It's very hard to get your law enforcement officers to open.

1:06:45 Up about things like this.

1:06:46 So, you know, with a lot of A lot of convincing and some more convincing and a lot of donuts.

1:06:53 I kid you not, donuts.

1:06:55 That's not stereotyping at all.

1:07:00 I mean, seriously, I have bought so many donuts. It's crazy.

1:07:06 But I have gotten three DPS troopers and I have a sheriff, one of our local county sheriffs, and I have two officers. So I think that, you know, we're off to a great start. I would like to get a few more stories in there.

1:07:23 I'd like to.

1:07:23 Have 10 stories, you know, and these are guys that are actually going to allow me to use their name, which is unheard of. But some of these stories, you know, I can give you, if you have time, I can give you a little bit of a teaser if you'd like.

1:07:39 Give me a teaser and we'll reflect back that the reason this came about the very first time you were on the show. We talked about a house. Was it in Kirbyville? It was in Kirbyville, yeah. And there was a house that you did a story on, and one of the officers said that he would go by, and there was like a, what was it, a stand-up base, I believe.

1:07:59 Yeah, it was a stand-up base, and it was on like an antique stand. So, yeah, it was a heavy base.

1:08:07 And this house was vacant at the time. And when he went by, he noticed that it was in the window at one point. And when he came back by, it wasn't in the window. And that's what kind of got us on this kick of law enforcement officers and the stories they might have. And so this actually, it's been over a year since you came on the first time.

1:08:25 So this has been kind of in the works for over a year now.

1:08:29 It has, and it's one of those shows that I want to make sure that everything is perfect. You know, I want all of my stories to be good. But because, you know, we've both kind of been working at this for so long, and I wanted stories not just, oh, yeah, teenage kid, you know, thought he saw his bedroom light, come on, you know, and we had to go out.

1:08:52 I don't want things like that. I want some... gritty good stories that will blow you away and that's what we've got. So I'm looking forward to it.

1:09:02 So you have a teaser for us?

1:09:04 I do. And actually, the gentleman, his name is Paul Brister.

1:09:08 He is one of the first law enforcement officers that I thought of.

1:09:13 He is the police chief in Carbyville, a little bitty town in Carbyville.

1:09:17 And he actually has been there, gosh, he's been.

1:09:22 There for a long time. But during.

1:09:26 When he was a, before he became police chief, he was just, he was a deputy with Jasper County. This is kind of another true crime one, but it's a lot shorter. There was a man who, I don't know if you're familiar with Beaumont. Right outside of Beaumont is a town called Orange. And this man who was high on drugs, he was on meth, jumped a train and rode a train from Orange County to Newton County. He then, he had gotten in a fight with his girlfriend and he had beat her up pretty bad. And so he was running from the law. Well, he finds, he jumps the train. He finds a trailer kind of in a rural area in Kirbyville. And he goes in, he has a gun. He, the mom, her name is Gwen and actually knows his family. Cause you know, in a small town,

1:10:14 you know, everybody. Gwen was asleep on the couch. She has three daughters, one who is asleep on the couch with her, two that are upstairs. This man, she, he knocks on the door. Gwen thinks it's her brother Anthony. She opens the door. He knocks her down. He shoots her in the arm. The girls, the one that was on the couch, sat up. They were nine, six, and four.

1:10:38 He shot her point blank in the chest. The other two little girls were coming downstairs. Gwen managed to get up and try to block the, like, she kind of, the girls were behind her, and she had her arms kind of behind her, but around her girls, and He shot Gwen in the abdomen, and he then proceeded to shoot both of the.

1:11:02 Other little girls.

1:11:04 One survived, and she actually had to testify, and it was just, it was a horrific scene, but these little girls are buried in the Kirbyville Cemetery. It's one of those graves that No matter how long it's been, it's still full of flowers. People just, they just, they can't seem to grasp what happened. It was so, it was just bad. Well, Chief was working in Jasper County at this time, and after it happened, probably two years after, he got the job as police chief in Kirby. So he moved to Kirbyville, and he, you know, started doing his job. Well, Chief Say what he wants, but Chief likes ghost stories. He will tell you that he doesn't, but he's just, he's a big fibber. I know for a fact he loves it. So there was a paranormal

1:11:51 group that had come out. It was just a little bitty group. I think they were out of Jasper. And they had come out. They were going to investigate this cemetery because there's a so-called witch's grave. And I can't verify any of that. So I don't think that that's correct. But Chief was out there. He went with them because they were going to be doing an investigation at night.

1:12:14 He did not know them.

1:12:16 So he wanted to be present to make sure that, you know, everything was accounted for. Nobody got in trouble, did anything they weren't supposed to do. And I'm sure Chief was just kind of interested too. Well, you know, in cemeteries, how you have little kind of inroads that go you know, throughout the cemetery. Well, they were walking and Chief bent over and he said, I can't breathe.

1:12:40 And one of the girls said, she was a paramedic. She said, well, what's going on? He said, I can't breathe. I think I'm having a heart attack. You need to call 911. I mean, he was bent over. He was on his knees on the ground. She said that he was just as white as a goat. And so she, you know, she's like, okay, we've got to, you know, we've got to get him out of here. So they were trying to get him back to the car. They got him up. And within 10 steps, he was fine.

1:13:12 I mean, not even one minute had passed. His color came back. He could breathe. He was fine. Do you know where that took place at? where he lost his breath and thought he was having a heart attack was right at that little girl's grave that had gotten shot in the heart. It's sad, and I hate to tell that story, but Chief will probably come on and tell you that story in his own words because he said, that's one of the things that changed my mind towards paranormal.

1:13:47 He said, I know I was not having a heart attack. I know now what it was. I mean, he was, he went down on his knees in front of her grave.

1:13:59 So it's a very sad story.

1:14:00 I know.

1:14:01 I hate to end on a sad story.

1:14:03 I hate that, but you know, it just, it goes to show you that there are, you know, there's things out there that we don't understand and there's things out there that we're not supposed to understand yet, but that doesn't mean that we can't embrace them and try to try to learn from everything. That's what As always, I can remember being, I started reading at a very early age.

1:14:27 And my mom brought me to a store called The Bookstop. And she said, okay, you know, here's the children. I think I was like four. She said, okay, here's the children's section, this, that, and the other. And she said the next thing she knew, I brought back scary stories to tell.

1:14:44 In the dark. And I was three.

1:14:46 Okay. Sounds like destiny.

1:14:49 I know.

1:14:50 She said, well, at least she's reading, you know. But I do look forward to. OK, I know I've been on way too long, but I'm sorry, Jerry. I just can't leave us with that sad story. So can I just tell can I tell a funny one?

1:15:04 Sure.

1:15:05 OK, this is.

1:15:07 From Sheriff Billy Rolls, who will this is the one that I want to get on on to tell stories. to tell you his story too. Billy is an older gentleman. He's very decorated. He was a state trooper. This was in 1972. And we have an area out here in the Piney Woods called Devil's Pocket. And I don't know why it's called that. It's just always been called Devil's Pocket.

1:15:32 Devil's Pocket is a, it's a dirt, one dirt road in, it's one in and out.

1:15:38 That's it.

1:15:39 And it's very, people out there are very Backwoods, they choose to live that way. They don't bother anyone, but they're just Backwoods people. Well, Billy got a call when he was a trooper in 1972 that there was a UFO in this lady's tomato patch.

1:16:02 And he said, oh, okay.

1:16:06 Okay, well, when someone calls 911, no matter how silly it is, if they want an officer, they get an officer.

1:16:14 So Billy being the newbie where he got the call.

1:16:18 So he goes out there, he said, and he said, I drive up, I get out of the car.

1:16:25 And, you know, Billy talks with a very country accent.

1:16:27 He said, I get out the car and I look at her and she's got a 12 gauge shotgun sitting in a rocking chair. And And I said, ma'am, can I help you? You know, what's going on? And she said, you just missed it. There was a flying saucer in my tomatoes. And he ruined my tomatoes. So Billy said, well, ma'am, did you get the license plate? And she looked at him and she said, I don't appreciate you being funny.

1:17:01 And you may have a gun, but mine's bigger than yours.

1:17:05 So anyway, he took the report and he said, I didn't see any evidence of any flying saucer, but some of her tomatoes were squished.

1:17:15 So who knows?

1:17:19 That's like some of my family members.

1:17:22 So there you go. But it's a lot funnier when you hear Billy tell it.

1:17:26 So hopefully, you know, I'll have him kind of give his rendition of it.

1:17:31 So, We talked a little bit earlier about all the fun stuff we're going to do in New Orleans. So you and your husband are going to tag along with me and Tracy probably to Myrtles, probably to the cemeteries to see Marie Laveau. And then you wanted to go out to, what's the name of the swamp?

1:17:48 Manchac Swamp.

1:17:50 Manchac Swamp.

1:17:51 Yes.

1:17:52 And the last I.

1:17:53 Heard, the only way you could get out there is to take a tour by swamp boat.

1:17:57 That's right. That's the only way that I know of as well.

1:18:01 So we will have a lot of fun stories to tell after our trip to New Orleans in August.

1:18:08 Yes, we will. And we'll have lots of pictures for the Instagram, too. Yay!

1:18:15 Well, that's right. I forgot we got Instagram, too. I always forget to post.

1:18:20 I know, because I always forget, too, because I gravitate towards Facebook. But I'm sure Natasha will have a lovely time putting up all the pictures that we send her. And some of those will probably be quite funny.

1:18:36 Andrea, thank you so much. Tell everybody again what newspaper you work for and how they can find you online.

1:18:42 Yes, I work for the Jasper Newsboy. You can find us at jaspernewsboy.com. You can also find us on Facebook. That's pretty much where we try to keep everybody updated. We're a weekly paper, but I try to update, you know, as much as I can on Facebook daily. And that's just facebook.com forward slash Jasper Newsboy. You can find me on Facebook too, just under Andrea, Andrea Whitney. So I really appreciate you guys having me on again, Jerry. It's always such an honor. It really is.

1:19:15 Well, everybody loves listening to you, so we're glad to have you on. And thank you so much for making it time for us and actually getting this accomplished on the first try.

1:19:24 I know.

1:19:25 It's crazy.

1:19:26 You know, I was still an hour late, but hey, we got it done. I was an hour late.

1:19:31 It happened on the same day, and that's a plus.

1:19:34 Yes, and I do want to say to the listeners that I appreciate all the feedback and the kind words whenever I was going through all that with Dennis. I will keep everyone updated as things progress, and hopefully we'll get some news.

1:19:51 I hope so. Sounds like a plan. I'll keep everybody updated.

1:19:56 All right, babe. We will see you in New Orleans in a month and a half.

1:20:01 I know.

1:20:01 I cannot wait. I am so ready. All right, babe.

1:20:05 See you then.

1:20:06 All right. Thank you so much.

1:20:09 As usual, Andrea does not disappoint.

1:20:11 No, she doesn't. She's really a good storyteller, I think, as well.

1:20:16 She is, and what's good about her is, I mean, she literally has been a reporter for a big part of her life. And like I said, now she's the editor-in-chief, but she still gets in all these things. So she's one of the few people in the country that's in the newspaper industry that takes paranormal very seriously. And loves to write articles on it. And that's why her articles are picked up around Halloween time for papers all over the country because she puts so much effort into it.

1:20:42 Yeah, she's a pretty cool chick.

1:20:43 Yep. And she's going to follow us around in New Orleans and some of the other podcasts down there. And she's on the podcast bandwagon. That's what I love about her. She wrote an article on us already that's put out. She's working on another one, a follow-up on us. And then we're going to tie this whole New Orleans trip all in with that article. So thank you so much, Andrea.

1:21:02 Yes, thank you, doll.

1:21:04 Guys, looking forward to next week. We don't mention it very much on here. We do it a little bit at the end. But Patreon, you guys are always looking out for us. We greatly appreciate that. If you would like to help the show out financially, and maybe someday, eventually, I can get out of my crappy job. I didn't mean that. I love my job. If anybody that works with me is listening. But... You know, a little bit of money, if you throw it our way, you get some extra episodes. And we're working on possibly doing a little bit of change for the first episode. I've got a poll up. We'll see what happens because the very first of the month, we have another Patreon episode coming out.

1:21:45 We usually do listener stories only on that first episode. The second episode of the month, which comes out on the 15th, is much like a regular story like you heard today. We don't do any interviews or anything on those. It's about 45 minutes of us telling stories. stories just like the lighthouse story and sometimes they're a couple small sometimes it's true crime and sometimes it's paranormal sometimes it's a mixture of both but the first episode is you guys calling in and telling us your stories and after a year doing that i think we might change it up a little bit we put up a poll on our patreon and it seems like most people are leaning towards still doing some of the calls but mixing in some of the stories and just doing a little half

1:22:27 and half So that's probably what it looks like we may be doing on this next one. But I'm going to leave the poll up for a couple more days and give some people more time to jump in. So if you are hearing this and haven't seen that poll, go on to Patreon and look at your notifications and log in so we can make a decision on that.

1:22:46 And I guess I'm going to try to wrap.

1:22:48 Yes.

1:22:49 Sorry, everybody.

1:22:50 The return of Tracy Rapps for the 100th episode.

1:22:53 Oh, my gosh.

1:22:56 Yeah, it's the gift that keeps on giving, really.

1:22:58 Is that what you call it?

1:22:59 Yeah.

1:23:00 No, I call it torture.

1:23:01 And you guys all weighed in on this, and there was a couple of them that were neck and neck, but we've decided on Ice Ice Baby.

1:23:10 Well, we'll see.

1:23:11 It's going to happen.

1:23:13 I just would like to apologize in advance. And I really do love y'all. I'm trying to hurt you.

1:23:22 Yeah, like a little Tracy Nice.

1:23:24 Nice.

1:23:25 Oh, good grief.

1:23:27 But anyway, we love you guys. We hope you have a fabulous week. And we will talk to you guys later.

1:23:32 Tune in next week. You will not want to miss that one. Hey, Hillbillies. If you guys enjoy what we do here on the show every week and appreciate all the hard work we put into it, consider being one of our Patreon supporters. All you got to do is go to our website, hillbillyhorrorstories.com, click on the tab for donations, and you'll see the Patreon link right there. Click on it and you can go to our Patreon page. Then you will have a decision to make. You can choose the $ 1, the $ 3, the $ 5, or the $ 10 donation.

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