Home Assistant 2025.12: Labs, Smarter Automations, Real‑Time Energy and Frenck

0:05 [Phil]: Hello and welcome to the home Mrs. and podcast, my name's Phil, joining me as usual, I've got Ruhan, how are you doing mate? [Rohan]: Hey, good, how are you? [Phil]: Thank you and it's the last release episode for 2025 and we are humbled again to have our joiners for another year, Frank, welcome mate.

0:22 [Franck]: Hey, thank you for having me. [Phil]: Thank you, and as usual, also special thank you to our sponsors today. [Phil]: This podcast is sponsored by Hermysson Cloud by Nabukasa. [Phil]: For some more monthly fee, you'll unlock powerful features, like Secure, and for this access to our system from anywhere.

0:37 [Phil]: Your choice of voice assistance, off-site backups, and more, all gift-vocable in the UI with no Yamal needed. [Phil]: It also supports the development of Hermysson, it's behind and other open home foundation projects. [Phil]: Click the link in the description to learn more. [Phil]: would also like to give a shout out to our Patreon members, including our executive producers, Benny and Rob.

0:56 [Phil]: You can help support the show and get early access to episodes, or in an ad-free feed. [Phil]: To support the show, check out home assistant.fm and click Patreon in the menu. [Phil]: So Frank, we're doing a little bit, you know, last release episode of the year. [Phil]: So we're doing a little bit different today.

1:12 [Phil]: We've got live stream happening, both on virtual channel and our channel. [Phil]: So thank you for sharing that with us today. [Rohan]: Also, I love that we, you started this whole thing like I'm gonna start vlogging and done with live streams. [Rohan]: So we're like, great, let's get ready for that.

1:25 [Franck]: Oh, I got live stream. [Franck]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no [Rohan]: But you just have it so many people tune into you all the time, right?

2:02 [Rohan]: And it's just jump in being like, oh cool, what's Frank doing? [Rohan]: So are you just, you coding something? [Franck]: Yeah, I had points where I had like three or three other 50 viewers at the same time, like that was pretty intense to be fair and keeping up with the chat was pretty troublesome to be fair.

2:20 [Phil]: That's what's happening and coding something, right? [Phil]: Like you put it in a different mind, right? [Franck]: Exactly. [Franck]: But in general, if you want to do this stuff, especially things like streaming, you want to make that like class, then you have to have a cadence in it. [Franck]: Doing it once or twice a week for like a few hours is pretty exhausting to do.

2:40 [Franck]: You guys should know, recording a podcast if you come out of it, you feel a bit jolted still and actually really pleaded on energy. [Franck]: And if you then do that like a few times a week and you try to have a family and a work life [Franck]: But aside, still do a regular streaming schedule, it's just way too much, and need to be honest, right?

3:04 [Franck]: That that's the case. [Franck]: So no more live streaming that's not going to happen in the future. [Franck]: I'm not But still we can produce content and times. [Franck]: I do still do the live streams for it for the release bar yet home assistance All right, and today this one, and that's fine.

3:20 [Franck]: Like that's fun. [Phil]: Yeah [Phil]: Well, yeah, thank you for joining us. [Phil]: So yeah, 2025 has been a big year for home assistant and Nebuchadnezzar. [Phil]: It's also been a big year for us. [Phil]: We thanks to some extra sponsors coming on board. [Phil]: We were able to release it.

3:37 [Phil]: We're just 43 episodes this year. [Phil]: We'll see you soon. [Phil]: We'll see you soon. [Phil]: Yeah, so shout out to our Petra members and members on YouTube as well. [Phil]: Thank you. [Phil]: And everyone that came on as a guest as well, we wouldn't have a podcast. [Phil]: If it wasn't for all the guests coming on to see some other sites in the story this year as well with our vendors and created.

3:58 [Phil]: So that's cool. [Phil]: Shout out to everyone who's also filled in the form on home. [Phil]: This is not a fan to register the interest to come on the podcast. [Phil]: We are. [Rohan]: blessed we've got a big wedding list now so we're going to have a great 2026 full of guests and keep it going right don't don't let that stop you we we we go through the list we I don't know pretty much most of that all people make it through we want to hear your stories we want to understand right it's unless you're one of those people that are like hey I'm representing this person that has nothing to do with all my money and then please don't because we we [Rohan]: Yeah, but other than that, it's, yeah, please, please do fill it out and continue jumping on.

4:43 [Rohan]: I would love to hear your story. [Franck]: You know, it would be interesting. [Franck]: I think on this podcast, so if there might be a shot, but if you're listening, you're like, hey, I live in a smart home, but it's built, like, for example, by my partner. [Franck]: Please, like, let them know, like put yourself on the list because that's interesting.

5:00 [Franck]: I would love to hear a few times from people that are, how do you say that? [Phil]: Jason, let's go ahead. [Franck]: I wanted to say they were in victim, but that's maybe not, they're right, but something like that, right? [Franck]: If you're in deep part of the smart home, but none necessary, you're not the one creating it, you're any out of the builder, you're the user kind of.

5:20 [Franck]: Yeah, exactly. [Franck]: Yeah, I would be interested in your story. [Franck]: So if you listen in, let them know. [Rohan]: It's funny. [Rohan]: I think Phil and I talked about this one's being like, oh, what if we get her wives on here and get the end and I think it was pretty quickly. [Rohan]: I like my wife is very like she is not like public and she doesn't like doing that kind of stuff and we're like absolutely not.

5:42 [Franck]: I could ask my but I'm not sure if that works. [Franck]: The Ninjown. [Franck]: I will poke. [Franck]: I think she says no. [Rohan]: I feel like yours would be different, because I feel like yours would be broken more than it would. [Rohan]: Just running on the phone. [Rohan]: Running on the phone.

5:58 [Rohan]: So I mean like you're running on nightly as you're running on whatever right and unless unless you're running multiple like your house is running on like a proper production like You know if you really want to know on my home looks like my smart home. [Franck]: Oh, it looks like I'm going to I'm using if you're looking at the stream.

6:14 [Franck]: You'll see boxes in the back and such. [Franck]: I'm I'm preparing to move. [Franck]: So I have no smart right now. [Franck]: But if you want to know how it looked like, I wrote a blog about the confessions on my smart home on my website, there you can actually read the true story, what my smart home looks like.

6:29 [Franck]: That's awesome. [Franck]: Yeah. [Franck]: It's a mess. [Franck]: Yeah. [Rohan]: Well, it's, what's this is the old adage, ready to think, like, plot like the plumber's plumbing and it's the, it's just a point to mess the cobbler shoes, whatever, whatever, whatever. [Rohan]: I guess so. [Rohan]: I guess so.

6:42 [Rohan]: Okay, that's yeah. [Franck]: But I do have good plans for the new place though. [Franck]: I will try to do my best to make an actual working thing. [Phil]: Yeah, so I'm going to guess like to catch people up like Frank, obviously, you are the lead home assistant and, you know, the streamer of, you know, custom creating custom components and give now decided a second half of this year that you're going to move house, very close to Christmas and of course, I think I learned about this when you put on socials, you know, if you're moving house and you had a smart home, what would you do with those advice and I thought it was like a [Phil]: You know, I have grappled face.

7:21 [Phil]: You know, in the middle of moving, what did you decide to do in the end? [Phil]: Did you keep the house as a smart home and sell it as a selling point? [Phil]: Or did you take the smart home down and sell it as a dumb house? [Franck]: So honestly, when I recorded a clip, I already decided that the clip itself was very interesting, right?

7:37 [Franck]: I think it's a good question to you. [Franck]: What do you do with a smart home? [Franck]: Is it everybody's place or not? [Franck]: If it's everybody's gem, would you sell it as an upsell, or would you take everything out and take it with you? [Franck]: I took it out. [Franck]: I take everything with me, because I don't know if the potential buyer at that point of time, it wasn't sold yet.

7:58 [Franck]: It would be interested, that's one. [Franck]: Two, it could be a bird and two for the buyer, right? [Franck]: They could take it out and throw it out. [Franck]: I would reuse a lot of my stuff that I had, so this is also about creating potential E-waste and things like that. [Franck]: if somebody comes in this house, the chances they have to level off nerdiness and like stuff we do with homocystened all right like the the geek this we have with homocyst the chances that that happen in is like very slim and they would end up asking questions on my [Franck]: I've taken everything out before I put it on a market.

8:47 [Franck]: So everything is normal. [Franck]: I live in a house with actual lights which is now for a few months. [Franck]: I feel that I'm going nuts. [Franck]: I'm constantly turning off the lights everywhere because nobody turns them off. [Franck]: It's just so, it's so, it's so stupid. [Franck]: Waking up and I'm wearing like, it's warm here because the thermostat didn't go down.

9:06 [Franck]: Like things like that have this constantly. [Franck]: That's right. [Franck]: Now that that that even misses here is like, I miss the [Franck]: So it seems it works. [Franck]: Yes, there's definitely something and that's part of the power, right? [Franck]: Especially the stuff you generally don't notice.

9:24 [Franck]: You now start to notice. [Franck]: Like, like, like the turn of automatically, turn the goes down, the old equipment turning off, and that stuff generally, you get used to. [Franck]: Yeah. [Franck]: Yeah. [Rohan]: It's, yeah, I mean, I've thought about it a little bit too. [Rohan]: Like there's a certain thing, again, I have no plans of moving right now, but if I ever were to like, what, want to do that, and I actually try to think about that when I build stuff into my home, right?

9:49 [Rohan]: So it's, it's, I think like stuff like my Lutron light switches and stuff as expensive as they are. [Rohan]: I think I can, it's like, it's a lot of effort to change out light switches in, I don't even know how many I have. [Rohan]: right and so that kind of stuff is like, you know what, it was a stopper is a regular light switch and worst case they can reset it and if they want to make it smart, they can make it smart, if not, cool, you got a nice light switch.

10:13 [Franck]: And it's not just light switches, for example, there are some more half-year equipment, like I have a EV charger, because I have full EV, and it's one that I build integration for as well, and I like it a lot. [Franck]: Do you leave it? [Franck]: Or did you take it out? [Franck]: That's quite, like, that needs to go into the fuse boxes on what not, right?

10:33 [Franck]: So that's quite the undertaking to get out again, and get it installed in the other side. [Franck]: But in the other hand, I, uh, [Franck]: the new house. [Franck]: I need to have one too, right? [Franck]: Do you buy a new one? [Franck]: And the new owners would they actually have an electric vehicle?

10:46 [Franck]: Is it like useless for them or not? [Franck]: It turns out to be useless for them. [Franck]: I will take it with me and take the effort to de-install it fully. [Franck]: But these are like, it's just such a hassle to do actually in a way. [Rohan]: Yeah, and those kind of, and EV charges aren't cheap either.

11:04 [Rohan]: Right, and it's so, you know, it's even included as part of your sale price while you take it with you, right? [Franck]: I've given the option with you can buy it or just not because I could buy a new one that cost me a lot of money so you either like take it over and I will buy a new one and then let it install on my cost like I still have the installation cost I think that's fair but if you don't want it then I'd rather take it with me because if the thing is useless it's waste too right like I yeah we're proposing it.

11:36 [Phil]: I do like the lens you're putting on that too like you don't what you're trying to prevent your your buyers from creating more e-waste right like you would rather take the bottom down and prevent e-waste then you know just taking the easy way out and and letting them have it right yeah [Phil]: But so last time before we last released episode, we did was 2025 dot, sorry, 2021, yeah, 2025, I've got 11 and this isn't, and it's just released from your hardware, is that BT2, which is the little brother, [Phil]: So, it is a Zigbee ready, the next successor of the Home Assistant Sky Connect, or ZPT-1.

12:23 [Phil]: I still like the name, Sky Connect. [Phil]: That's just my perspective. [Phil]: Yeah. [Phil]: Yeah. [Phil]: Easy roll at the time. [Phil]: Yeah. [Phil]: So, yeah. [Phil]: Now, it looks exactly like it looks a little bit smaller than the ZW-2. [Phil]: I have to admit the once again, the setup process of migrating from the Sky Connect to the new version.

12:43 [Phil]: was was good. [Phil]: I had one slide here about I did have to set a privilege flag on my docket container. [Phil]: I still said that. [Phil]: I'm loving talking that young. [Phil]: That's fine. [Franck]: Don't worry. [Franck]: It's a good installation method. [Phil]: It is, and it's still supported.

13:03 [Phil]: But, yes, once I set the privilege flag, I was the way it was seamless. [Phil]: I think I had all my ZB devices just worked. [Phil]: There was a few blinds, some dodgy Zami smart blinds that I have connected to ZB that need to be repaired, but I need to repair them anyway, or every few months, by the sound of it.

13:21 [Phil]: So, I was going to call me impressed once again, I'm excited to see how that hardware goes. [Phil]: The connectivity status alliance, coincidentally, also announced the day after this episode. [Phil]: Zigbee version 4 is here, the latest... Zigbee screen, I know it was released in 2014, so almost 11 years later we've got Zigbee 4.

13:47 [Phil]: The New Zigbee 4 features included batch provisioning, which would be very welcome for some battery life and performance improvements. [Phil]: Hopefully some security improvements and the ability to control devices without a hub using a BLA. [Phil]: Frank, I don't, I'm guessing like I'm sitting so big now.

14:07 [Phil]: Have you had anything to do on this hardware site? [Franck]: You always never cast a time to just say like, so big games this year, we made the foundation a real thing, right? [Franck]: We made Pro in the same of the open home, but it was also announced. [Franck]: We, uh, yeah. [Franck]: I don't want to call it a split because that's not really how it works and how it feels, right?

14:26 [Franck]: But we moved a lot of people from Nauwakasa into actual defundation, including myself and everybody working on the Home Assistant Project. [Franck]: So we work for Nauwakasa now and Nauwakasa is its own commercial entity that developed hardware and such. [Franck]: That's basically how you can look at it now.

14:44 [Franck]: This means that more things like hardware is, in general, less or my personal plate, which is kind of nice to be fair, I'm a software guy, I've always been. [Franck]: So that's fine. [Franck]: From the foundation perspective, inside the foundation, we create multiple departments now too, so we have the homelessness department, which I'm responsible for, but we also have an ecosystem's department, which more cells leading.

15:13 [Franck]: And this department does the matter stuff, this it'd be stuff, and thus communicates a law with Nabukasa regarding this EBT2 and makes the experience like prayer-fragments, some parts of the drive-hairs on the sick pile-library, that homocystened uses, and things like that. [Franck]: So for me, I'm less involved in this part, less involved in the EBT2, of course.

15:34 [Franck]: I watch from the side lines, of course. [Franck]: I'm responsible in the end for homocysterna. [Franck]: I will look on that part. [Franck]: and sure that that is all up to SPAC, but yeah, not too much nowadays. [Franck]: I can't focus on how it was assisted. [Phil]: Yeah, that's great. [Phil]: Yeah, that's awesome.

15:50 [Phil]: Um, Madder J.S. [Phil]: has also joined the Open Home Foundation, speaking of the Open Home Foundation, which is awesome. [Phil]: So it's very good for sure, has donated the Embadder J.S. [Phil]: library to the Open Home Foundation and he now joins the Open Home Foundation full-time to work on Madder J.S.

16:09 [Phil]: Which is good. [Rohan]: So, so, so what's going to happen with the, so I know I know there's a plan right now to replace the existing matter code with Madder.js. [Rohan]: Um, and obviously it's currently certified, sorry, matter.js is not currently certified by the CSA, however that the code homelessness and just running is.

16:31 [Rohan]: So you guys are going to have to re-certify and find whatever, whatever process that looks like. [Franck]: The half research application. [Franck]: Opportunity CS. [Rohan]: Yeah, so what happens with that old code? [Rohan]: Are you going to be maintaining both streams or are you just going to deprecate the old code and then go full-board with a matter of GIS?

16:51 [Franck]: We, the code we've based the current stuff on, but let's put it that way, it's not always been our happiest path to be fair. [Franck]: We have always juggle the little bit on which decision to take should we go one way or the other. [Franck]: And this is also chosen because of the past that has been chosen.

17:11 [Franck]: I've been chosen because of the knowledge and we have internally available as well. [Franck]: I do manage such a project. [Franck]: So going with Python, for example, seems like the good way to go, because we have a lot of Python knowledge. [Franck]: Although, [Franck]: The Python code page we rely on is not that necessary as good maintained and kept up to date upstream as we wanted it to be.

17:32 [Franck]: So we always struggle with things that are not perfectly well maintained. [Franck]: At the same time, a meta yes is there doing an amazing implementation to be fair. [Franck]: So we lack knowledge to work with that. [Franck]: And how this now is done is like now meta-jazz is becoming part of the open-owned foundation.

17:52 [Franck]: And there you go starts joining the foundation as well and being able to focus it. [Franck]: It's time full on that as well. [Franck]: It means we can actually start working on something that makes way more sense and has a good foundation to begin with. [Franck]: and something we can carry and support ourselves now as well.

18:08 [Franck]: So the end goal and the result here is in the end a piece of software that can be used by many, right, not just home assistant, because that's not how the open home foundation work. [Franck]: We want to offer open software for the open home. [Franck]: Having this here, [Franck]: It just makes something that everybody can use, and everybody can work.

18:27 [Franck]: We shouldn't be competing on who can control and turn it off, the light, the best, right? [Franck]: It's the rest of the smart home, that matters, the connection to it shouldn't be. [Franck]: So, Madder Jazz and this move will help us build a built-in top-up for more stable and more knowledgeable platforming.

18:44 [Franck]: Yeah, platforming, we have more knowledge for, they don't have more control over. [Rohan]: Yeah, because you're on the whole stack at that point there. [Phil]: Yeah, yeah. [Phil]: And I guess for the uninitiated manager is an SDK that allows devices and servers and all that to communicate on the matter.

19:02 [Phil]: Particle is written in TypeScript. [Phil]: The official one from the CSA is written in C++, I believe. [Phil]: So yeah, it's a fundamentally a different language. [Franck]: This I've managed and I could be not fully right here, so if I'm wrong. [Franck]: Sorry, but this one was partially carried by the CSA as well, previously, but posted on the screen I'm official GitHub.

19:26 [Franck]: Yeah, so they supported it as well. [Franck]: So it has always been under good wings to be fair. [Franck]: And that's not so we're hoping to give it just a more open and better home even than it already had. [Franck]: Which is not, there's no commercial interest from us in that regard. [Franck]: We can just build on something good and open and which is nice.

19:46 [Rohan]: Well, what's interesting is the existing implementation today. [Rohan]: And I know I know. [Rohan]: between yourself, us, Paulus and whoever we've had these chats around, you know, how many people are using the existing code, the matter code that's in the matter SDK that's in the in-home system today.

20:07 [Rohan]: And a big part of that is also because it was the most complete matter SDK that's out there. [Rohan]: And you know, through one thing or the other, you know, like other companies [Rohan]: people building their products are actually testing against the homelessness and SDK and stuff. [Rohan]: What does this mean for them?

20:27 [Franck]: I don't think much change, right? [Franck]: The reason why a lot of these companies use homelessness is because homelessness itself is open, right? [Franck]: You can just install it, pair something and you can easily debug it, look at the runtime, play with it on every single level we expose all kinds of advanced features.

20:41 [Franck]: It's not like, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, [Franck]: So even for those developers that last for a lot of fans thinks and like easy inside the debuggy, that will remain the same. [Franck]: It will still be a full blown open source stack and you can jump in everywhere you want.

20:59 [Franck]: And that doesn't change, I think. [Franck]: No, I wouldn't. [Franck]: Okay. [Franck]: I think it would open up more than the chances. [Franck]: Maybe. [Rohan]: Right. [Rohan]: Right. [Rohan]: And maybe encourage people to write their own tune, right? [Rohan]: And it's a little bit of diversity, it's not a bad thing.

21:13 [Franck]: If you're listening, you're like, we're a company for some smart home thing or stuff, please start using meta-assets there. [Franck]: You can use it with there's no limitation to it. [Franck]: And like, let's make it better to get out. [Franck]: That's way more important than trying to compete on the driver.

21:28 [Franck]: That's not a way to compete. [Rohan]: No. [Rohan]: No. [Rohan]: I agree. [Phil]: Something that I found in the build of the open home newsletter from Paulus, so share that to that newsletter if you haven't subscribed to subscribe for that one. [Phil]: Arduino, moving away from open source, I was a bit, I couldn't believe this went over this.

21:49 [Phil]: So, Polkom have acquired the open source electronics company. [Phil]: Arduino this year, I'm if. [Phil]: A lot of HP home users and smart and gadget users will know are doing it right like we've fiddle around with Arduino kits all the time. [Phil]: They have been new-termsing additions and privacy policies have been posted since the acquisition, including forbidding users, forbidding users from reverse engineering the platform with that permission, which goes against open-source open-home.

22:23 [Franck]: It's almost fitted for the tune, right, for the cloud tune. [Rohan]: It's not really going to say that, right? [Rohan]: I've had it. [Rohan]: You know, like, what gives, right? [Rohan]: So, so, I mean, as somebody that, obviously, I have a bunch of ESP32s, we use them all over the place. [Rohan]: What does this mean for ESP home?

22:47 [Rohan]: What does this mean for users like myself, the regular user? [Franck]: It doesn't mean anything. [Franck]: Chris, he's the homeless, just enjoy here, just work. [Franck]: I think in a long run, I think that the USP Home would go away more from the platform I owe stuff. [Franck]: I'm not exactly sure.

23:07 [Franck]: I know they were working on that at some point. [Franck]: I have no idea what the status is on that. [Franck]: I must be on a sense. [Franck]: Ever since last year, you had to be for it, a growth that we went through, I could not follow up on it on all that stuff anymore, because it's just, don't be a system self-staking up so much of my time and focus and energy.

23:27 [Franck]: But at the time we were working on getting a platform I owe, which is on the mythet, I have no idea if we've done that or completed at this point, and I also know like there's more building on top off those IDF drivers. [Franck]: That was great. [Franck]: Yep. [Rohan]: So life goes on for right goes on.

23:44 [Franck]: Yeah, sure. [Franck]: Absolutely. [Rohan]: It is kind of crappy for, you know, people that are building their own stuff based on our do we know, maybe not on ESP home, but based on straight-art, we know whatever code, right? [Rohan]: It's just whatever C++ variant thing. [Franck]: I think Arduino in general, that Arduino boards have been way less popular in the home system community ever since ESP home has a landscape actually to be fair because like you can't have the one of those ESP boards and they're just so good to be like, where [Franck]: We're not experimenting a lot, we're not using it as a teaching grow in that way right now, which a video came from.

24:25 [Franck]: We are building little smart home devices and whatnot. [Franck]: I think the opposite actually will happen. [Franck]: I think ESP home will slowly potentially, I think it has the potential. [Franck]: to turn more into a teaching platform that Adreno originally started out with, because it is just very open.

24:42 [Franck]: You can easily configure it with just a little bit of Yamble, which is easier to teach, right? [Franck]: There's no code in false, and you don't have to build sketches on what not. [Franck]: I do think potential there along around for use be home to basically turn into an old school was renowned to be fair.

24:57 [Rohan]: Well, and you can do a lot with the SP home, right? [Rohan]: You can do functions and stuff where if you need to do some custom whatever. [Rohan]: Yeah. [Rohan]: Do that, right? [Rohan]: Like, like, lambdas and like whatever their notation isn't there, right? [Rohan]: And it's like, yeah, just so you kind of can still do the same thing.

25:17 [Franck]: Mm-hmm. [Franck]: Thank you. [Rohan]: Yeah, that's fair. [Phil]: Okay, well, should we get to the main order of business, which is 2025.12? [Phil]: Just the tiny release. [Phil]: The tiny release, you know, tiny tiny, tiny thing. [Phil]: Big changes coming in this release at all. [Phil]: Let's see if we see it, too.

25:38 [Phil]: Just to do. [Phil]: Please sit down. [Phil]: Let's start off with, I think, the biggest one. [Phil]: Her assistant labs is being released. [Phil]: as part of this. [Phil]: So a new area to enable experimental or coming soon features for home assistant and the first two lab features are a winter mode which adds a nice snow effects to your home assistant instance and what have got the purpose specific triggers and conditions.

26:08 [Phil]: Frank, I am glad that you're here for this release episode because [Phil]: think this is a, it currently is a lab's feature, but if it does progress to a new feature of home assistant, it is, it's good to have you here to make sure I'm explaining it properly and how we explain that. [Phil]: So I will try and go into purpose-specific triggers and conditions.

26:32 [Franck]: This is probably cool. [Franck]: Can I, well, quickly explain labs a little bit on the higher level? [Phil]: Yes, absolutely. [Franck]: Yeah, because home assistant labs is actually born out of the next up yet, the purpose specific because we often try to ship things in home assistant that maybe are not fully ready.

26:50 [Franck]: And it doesn't mean they're not like safe to use, right? [Franck]: Like we do test for stability and such during our beta periods. [Franck]: Like these are stable features. [Franck]: But in general, we [Franck]: Like, recently you had the experimental home dashboard, for example. [Franck]: But were he stuff these things in their interfaces, and if you updated it's there, even though you might not use it, and then you're like, okay, maybe I want to give it a shot and where do I go with feedback and things like that?

27:16 [Franck]: So what we have now I've done. [Franck]: In order to ship things early, but not have this directly affecting you, we now have this last dashboard where you can see clearly what's currently being pre-fused, right? [Franck]: There are pre-fue features that you can opt into doing, and they have clear descriptions, and they have feedback buttons and buck report.

27:39 [Franck]: forms and there's a learn more link on where it can learn more about this feature that is in preview. [Franck]: So you have a clear overview of what's going on here and know what you're opting into at that point because everything is opted out by default. [Franck]: And if you enable it, you get the option to make it back up before it turns on and will instantly work.

27:57 [Franck]: And after the backup's completed, you can drag the record go and try to feature out. [Franck]: So this gives us a way to actually experiment and iterate with a community. [Franck]: We can ask for feedback. [Franck]: So, pre-fifth features, how generally, probably not ready, or we want your feedback before we market us like ready for general purpose use.

28:15 [Franck]: or they might not be completely at. [Franck]: It could be that we haven't completed all the things in that feature yet that has the features that we're efficient. [Franck]: It might be just so big and that's actually what we're going to talk about in a minute. [Franck]: The next subject and the thing we added, the purpose of triggers and conditions, it's so huge that it's [Franck]: preventing us to, um, it's relatively ship it and this way we can do that.

28:41 [Franck]: So these features are stable on safety use and the winter mode you talked about, this is actually put into labs for you to play with. [Franck]: It's, it, it, it lets it snow. [Franck]: It's supercured by the way, uh, in my home they like it, so I keep the thing on at this point. [Franck]: But it will really be snowflakes so I'm coming down a year home so it's an interface and then if you add and turn on and enable this feature you have an idea what this does Just you talk a little bit on it instantly such knowing and if you don't like it you talk a little bit off again.

29:09 [Franck]: It's that simple if you're in an order and have a sphere But it where you can just wait six months and then turn on later. [Franck]: That's fine, too, but [Franck]: It's a, yeah, this is just a cool little gimmick we've put in to get you used a little bit of what this is and what laughs us and we specifically came up and built this part to ship the triggers and conditions.

29:32 [Franck]: I'm going to, in fact, I did it overnight. [Franck]: I built the concept overnight just to get the purpose specific features, triggers and conditions out into, into homesystems to get this concept done. [Phil]: Have you defined some rules on what will be marked for labs and how things move in to labs or how they move out of labs?

29:53 [Phil]: Like are we going to see things that are going to just say in labs forever or are there ways to go out of labs? [Franck]: There must be an exit plan for it. [Rohan]: That's [Franck]: Well, they must be an extra plan to get something out of there. [Franck]: It could be out and ever ship it, right?

30:15 [Franck]: If the feedback is that it's horrible, there's no reason to put it in general use. [Franck]: It could still, it's really a lot. [Franck]: We could change things drastically, maybe way, something back. [Franck]: So, [Franck]: In the end, it's not the goal to put everything in there, we want to still iterate in the open together, right?

30:33 [Franck]: That's the goal, and we ridership something fast and often and early into the general interface, one possible. [Franck]: But if there's something that is impactful, like architecture or a wise or in this case, automation wise, [Franck]: then it's just a good safety measure in order allows us to get a feedback and see if the direction is right.

30:52 [Franck]: Things like earlier this year, for a beginning of the year, the last release of last year actually, it was the backup feature, right? [Franck]: It had some backlash, we fixed them, that's okay, right? [Franck]: That's okay to get that feedback into reposition and to be wrong, like don't get me wrong, that's very good.

31:08 [Franck]: I enjoyed that feedback a lot, even though it was [Franck]: Having a latch feature like this would have made that landing softened at that time, right? [Franck]: Then we would have learned early and would have been able to iterate better without affecting people. [Franck]: Because at the time, affected people, this is exactly what we're going to confront with this.

31:31 [Franck]: And this is exactly where the line is drawn, right? [Franck]: How big of an effect would it be if we shipped this and should we iterate on? [Rohan]: How does a feature being in a lab interact in the lab's section interact with the code release that it might be tied to, right? [Rohan]: So because I'm thinking, for example, if something is in a lab, it might be built over a couple of releases potentially.

31:56 [Rohan]: Right, is there and to me that's kind of the delineation of beta versus lab is lab can span across releases where some beta is for that beta for that one release yeah beta for us is pure stability testing right is this safe to ship yeah whereas the whereas in a lab the feature is is safe to ship.

32:19 [Rohan]: It's past whatever. [Franck]: Yeah, it does not concern critical bucks, right? [Franck]: It will not like get your system down to its views. [Rohan]: Yeah. [Rohan]: But, and then we can just go and turn it off. [Rohan]: And if you do run into some kind of issues. [Rohan]: So that's interesting.

32:35 [Rohan]: What about stuff that takes, for example, firmware? [Rohan]: So a while ago, homelessness [Rohan]: uh... we played with that uh... unified firmware uh... which never never end up panning out which a great reason to have it as a lab feature right and and you guys marketed as such and whatever which great would something like that be considered here because that is tied to firmware and we couldn't live a sort of [Franck]: This feature homesystem labs, the features that are in there, the preview features that it has or integration driven.

33:12 [Franck]: So each integration can announce, like, hey, I have this preview feature just a sister's description and whatever made I didn't want. [Franck]: That's got exposed. [Franck]: It also means that they got signal to the integration cat signal to somebody turns it on, but it also got signal to when it's turned off again.

33:27 [Franck]: So it can do the reverse. [Franck]: And like, for example, upgrade or don't create firmware at that moment in time to get everything back in order. [Franck]: disabling and a preview feature could have repercussions, but these will be informed off. [Franck]: It will tell you what the result is of turning something on and off again and what that means for your system.

33:49 [Franck]: For example, the automation changes we're going to talk about in a minute. [Franck]: If you would enable this feature, and you would build automation on top of that, and you write those nicely down in email, and then turn off the lab features. [Franck]: Yes, of course, those automations will not work, because they rely on something that all of a sudden isn't available anymore, right?

34:05 [Franck]: So these are things that are always into play, and that's also why there's a backup for example. [Franck]: That's happening. [Franck]: So, also why integrations can listen into and, for example, down great firmware, if that is turned off again, get you into working state again. [Franck]: As a matter of fact, a whole app feature has been built in the most extendable, extensible way as we always do.

34:29 [Franck]: If you're having a custom integration and you have a preview feature in there, even a custom integration can announce a lab preview feature and it will show up. [Franck]: So, yeah, that's how we do that, right, and that the whole thing has been built out like that. [Franck]: It's actually super simple, but extremely useful and complex at the same time.

34:51 [Franck]: But from a user perspective, you can enable and disable something and see what the repercussions are on the front and having backups in between there. [Franck]: That's really helpful. [Franck]: It shouldn't be a scary experience to jump in something like this, and that's something we really took into account here.

35:07 [Rohan]: that's awesome. [Rohan]: I think it's a good way to group that kind of testing kind of features, right? [Rohan]: Where it's like, hey, try it out. [Rohan]: Let us know what you think. [Rohan]: And from, again, I haven't seen it yet, just because again, I wasn't able to make that last creator's call, but I haven't seen what it looks like, but, you know, from there, it sounds like it's just, you can give feedback.

35:27 [Rohan]: You can give whatever. [Rohan]: And if it, if it's not good, then be open with it and say, hey, [Franck]: Yeah, that way we can't even chew right like we cannot ever ship features that everybody likes like that's that's Simply put everybody has different use cases and pains, but in yet we want to see the general Like emotion people have around it right are you guys gathering statistics around that kind of stuff obviously Optin whatever so how many people have this feature turned on no now maybe kind of helpful though, right?

36:00 [Franck]: Sure, but in the end, like we don't even know exactly how many people are using how resistant. [Rohan]: Yes. [Franck]: I wear five Cs, one of the core values always has been its local control and privacy first is the tech line and we truly live by that. [Franck]: I will like stand ground for it.

36:16 [Franck]: I don't care if you turn it on and off, but if you find it helpful or maybe not, then the feedback would be helpful and appreciated. [Franck]: I think that's more important than numbers to be fair. [Phil]: All right, so purpose-specific triggers and conditions. [Phil]: So it introduces new ways to trigger automations or assign conditions to them.

36:39 [Phil]: So if you have been using Homestead for a long time, or you're using Gamble, or as your automations, you'll be very familiar with the Numeric state trigger, Numeric state conditions, and they trigger state conditions. [Phil]: that they've been there for a while, and they still stay today, but this new feature flag or this new home and labs feature, introduces some new trigger and condition types, which are more granular and intuitive, which I'll look very with.

37:10 [Phil]: So for example, when triggering a media player that changes to play music or with a volume control for the volume changes, good look at a state change event to other playing or the [Phil]: Now, you can actually target the media player, once you've enabled this feature, through the UI, you would say, okay.

37:30 [Phil]: And this enabling this feature does change the UI, which will explain in a minute. [Phil]: You would target the media player, and then there would be an action. [Phil]: You know, the media volume has changed or the state of the media player has changed to this. [Phil]: Logical brain like thinking of, okay, yes.

37:54 [Phil]: This is how I would want it laid out, right? [Phil]: Like I've struggled with the current automation editor Um, and I do have some technical questions that I do want to ask you Frank. [Phil]: So, um, but yeah, go ahead. [Phil]: I'm going to be enough. [Franck]: I don't know, like if you find it hard to explain this myself as well, still at this point and while we're recording this, I'm still working on a release notes as well.

38:15 [Franck]: What the taxes in there, I'm not 100% fully happy with the flow of things. [Franck]: But in the end, we've been doing a lot of automation changes lately. [Franck]: We added the sidebar. [Franck]: For the split view, I'm the redo has been added. [Franck]: Last release we changed the way targets work, the target selector, so you had like a extra window to walk through your house and select the right targets and that overview which targets affected actually which entities to make it more insightful if you target like turn on lights and living will area, which lights would actually be affected and turn on and off.

38:49 [Franck]: things like that. [Franck]: So we have made a lot of changes and these were actually all precursors to what we're doing today and what's coming to be here. [Franck]: If we do and talk about actions, actions actually have a few things that we all already like. [Franck]: Turn on the lights in the living room is something you can do, right?

39:08 [Franck]: You can do a turn light turn on action in point to the area of your living room and it will turn [Franck]: something specific to actions, which is kind of weird, because you probably want to do the same thing into triggers and conditions as well. [Franck]: Are the lights in my living room on?

39:26 [Franck]: Or in case with a trigger, is there a motion detected in the hallway if you have multiple of those motion centers? [Franck]: You want to do maybe stuff like that. [Franck]: So that's [Franck]: feature number one, we're going to bring target support like actions have to both triggers and conditions so you can actually say I want to be triggering something if emotion is detected although that's a bad example because that doesn't land in this preview feature yet but if a light turns on in the living room [Franck]: Or a media player in the living room starts playing, in my case, I have multiple media players in my living room.

40:01 [Franck]: If any of them would start playing, I want to trigger this automation. [Franck]: You can do that now. [Franck]: And this is a very nice concept, because if you keep your home organized into areas or labels, even like Christmas decorations, Christmas this coming, I can definitely see a Christmas decoration label, right?

40:18 [Franck]: you could trigger or build conditions and actions now around such a thing which means that you no longer have to change your automation. [Franck]: I could add more Christmas decorations assigned at label to it and it would just the automation would just pick it up and the changes will be picked up immediately as well.

40:36 [Franck]: If I add a motion sensor or a Christmas decoration or whatever not, [Franck]: the automation will immediately adjust without me touching it even just because I categorized it as such. [Franck]: So that's featured number one basically that we're doing and I'm really stoked about that concept.

40:52 [Franck]: The other concept actions had which triggers and conditions didn't have is the concept [Franck]: way more granular. [Franck]: If you go into an action you find like the light that turned on. [Franck]: There's not a generic one that you need to program. [Franck]: We had, we had that back in the day.

41:10 [Franck]: Back in the day, we had coal surface, then you selected the surface. [Franck]: And about two years ago, we specced the surface layer out of it. [Franck]: We now have a whole bunch of actions, right? [Franck]: And it feels so natural. [Franck]: I want to turn on this line. [Franck]: I want to turn up this term step.

41:24 [Franck]: I want to start a vacuum cleaner. [Franck]: I want to play media. [Franck]: That's the thing, the action you want to take. [Franck]: But if you go into today, if you go into triggers and now you want to trigger because of a volume changes of your media player, then all of a sudden you have to know how to state machine works.

41:42 [Franck]: You have to know you need to select a numeric state trigger. [Franck]: You have to know you need to select a volume attribute. [Franck]: If you want to do below in a bluff, you actually need to know that the volume attribute in the state machine is between zero and one, so for 50% you have to do zero point five, which is super confusing.

42:01 [Franck]: This is not somebody ever, anyone would ever understand, and you see people struggle with this coming term system as well, right? [Franck]: They feel immediately making their whole, it first automation is so difficult because they have to know what state triggers are and numeric state triggers are.

42:15 [Franck]: and they're amazing and they're not going away. [Franck]: Don't worry if you're listening in any right now. [Franck]: What's happening? [Franck]: All your existing automation is keep working. [Franck]: If you loft a state trigger, please buy all means, keep using it. [Franck]: But we're going to add just like actions have a whole lot of triggers in Oregon.

42:34 [Franck]: spectrum year. [Franck]: Triggers that can do things like motion has been detected or the media players started playing and those purpose-specific triggers and thus also conditions make it much more simpler to configure. [Franck]: So let's say the motion detected trigger would actually be delivered and I hope it will be in the next release preview feature but just imagine how that would work, right?

42:58 [Franck]: Motion is detected in the hallway, turn on the lights in the hallway. [Franck]: That would be your automation. [Franck]: There's no entity in there. [Franck]: There's no thing in there that actually is subjected to change. [Franck]: And if you change your hallway and change out the lights or change out your motion sensor doesn't matter, it remains just like if light is detected in the hallway turn on the lights in the hallway.

43:19 [Franck]: It's that simple. [Franck]: And I think the way we think about automations will drastically change because of this. [Franck]: where more thinking about what is happening and what would be the result of this, more than what's the value of my state machine? [Rohan]: Yeah, and what I like about this is it's more [Rohan]: Like, it's what you said initially about being able to add or remove or swap out devices and do those kind of things, right?

43:46 [Rohan]: Like, which you can kind of do that today with labels, right? [Rohan]: Because that's kind of how I have my automation set up today, even from the triggers. [Rohan]: But not to my triggers. [Rohan]: Yes, right. [Rohan]: And, and I think that's that's really nice. [Rohan]: Because my triggers are still sometimes listed, right?

44:02 [Rohan]: Like, hey, I have this, I have this and I trigger ID and then I filter to whatever. [Rohan]: So this might be a much cleaner way of doing this, I think, and I really like that part of this. [Franck]: If you have ever tried to automate with an event entity, like doorbell press on an event entity, you probably will still have known this struggle, and if you set the specific trigger for this trigger type doorbell press, for example, it would only work the first time and not the second [Franck]: The state and general action orders do this right because you need to detect what type of press was done in your condition, not in your trigger, most people struggle with this one.

44:46 [Franck]: We have so much documentation around this and so many comments and people still don't understand it and that's okay. [Franck]: I get it too. [Franck]: It is difficult, but you shouldn't have to care. [Franck]: So we are now going to make a trailer, also not in this release. [Franck]: The PR is open, it didn't make it, but it is pending.

45:05 [Franck]: We want to make a trailer that makes this easy, right? [Franck]: It's the door, the doorbell has been pressed, play a sound on media player. [Franck]: That's what we want to do in the living room area because I don't care which one, right? [Franck]: Do just announce it on these floors, for example.

45:19 [Franck]: Things like that we want to do. [Franck]: And that is so much more natural thinking, and I think it will be so much easier for new users coming to home system as well. [Rohan]: Yeah, yeah, that's really. [Rohan]: And, and obviously, the Yambles structure will have to be reverse compatible as well as, sure, the only new version will.

45:39 [Rohan]: Yeah, yeah. [Rohan]: And, and I [Rohan]: I'm just thinking because I really love the copy pasteability and it almost doesn't now, right? [Rohan]: Coffee, I almost didn't paste it into there and it just all shows up, so that'll be really nice to there. [Franck]: So if you remember, like, then the gift you an idea how long we're already playing with us.

46:04 [Franck]: I think it was earlier this year, maybe if in the beginning this year, we changed the syntax of the ammo a little bit. [Franck]: It became trigger and the platform became a ammo, right? [Franck]: It became more natural. [Franck]: And that change is actually leading already into this because we are now in the syntax where you normally say action column, which previously be in a binary wheel surface.

46:25 [Franck]: where you put in light turn on. [Franck]: We now have trigger light dot turn on. [Franck]: It happened and in the condition we have light dot is on because you want to know if that's the case, right? [Franck]: So even in yellow we try to make the syntax really natural into how you feel and how it sounds and how it should be.

46:48 [Franck]: It's very similar to how actions work except the naming is a little bit [Franck]: Is it on? [Franck]: That's what you wouldn't know. [Franck]: That's the condition. [Franck]: Did it turn on? [Franck]: It turned on. [Franck]: So trigger it or turn it on as the action because I want to turn it on.

47:03 [Franck]: So the naming is been adjusted and the syntax is very familiar. [Franck]: It's very similar to what's already there because we already did that in the past. [Franck]: We already started prepping for that. [Franck]: So it doesn't feel weird at all. [Rohan]: It's well thought out, right? [Rohan]: It's like, so you had this vision for like a year and you're like, this is how you get there.

47:22 [Franck]: Yeah. [Franck]: And that's a clear strategy. [Franck]: It's throughout the studio a lot here, by the way, because I always wanted triggers to be in the UI, JLO to get a step further with like the smashing it back and now like for the actions back in a day and now driving this part from a product and automation in making this or natural, the poor fella has been.

47:41 [Franck]: working with all these like figuring out all these triggers and conditions we want. [Franck]: And circling back to the lapsed by the way, the amount of triggers and conditions we come up with in a homosystems in this way, right? [Franck]: Light turned on, light turned off, motion detected, gas leak detected, water detected, media player full of change.

48:00 [Franck]: The boiler starts heating, the temperature on the thermal status has been turned up or down or a sensor between some range, showing across a range, you are [Franck]: whatever. [Franck]: Like the amount of triggers and conditions we can come up with is insane. [Franck]: For actions we have done this for years already, it has a natural grown, but for triggers a condition's not.

48:22 [Franck]: And this is where laps comes in. [Franck]: Because we cannot build and shape all these triggers in one go. [Franck]: So if you turn on labs, you will not have a complete feature set. [Franck]: There are tons of triggers and conditions missing that we still want to add. [Franck]: So hence, this is a perfect candidate for preview feature.

48:41 [Franck]: The feature set is not there yet. [Franck]: And for the new triggers and conditions we've added, we want to know if their feature complete. [Rohan]: and give that feedback, right? [Rohan]: Yes. [Rohan]: Hey, you guys forgot, I don't know, gas detected, right? [Rohan]: You mentioned that, like, yep.

48:56 [Rohan]: Some of that. [Rohan]: So. [Phil]: I do want to ask a technical question and something that's, you know, we've had some listen, you know, come in over the years and ask us to. [Phil]: So in software development, there are many ways to skin a cat. [Phil]: And if you've seen it, you know, be drunk as done so much like optimisation.

49:14 [Phil]: We hear about all these optimisations. [Phil]: He's done in the the code. [Franck]: I still dust with this point. [Franck]: we got a shoe. [Phil]: And for, in some way, like when we're creating hermissed on emotions in Yamol, we are creating, you know, where we're coding to a certain degree. [Phil]: Does this new, that the purpose specific triggers at least?

49:35 [Phil]: will, instead of now us triggering on a generic state event from the state machine, but now triggering only on, for example, a media player changing at state. [Phil]: Does that make an underlying clue of the automation? [Phil]: Does that make these automations more optimized? [Phil]: Like, instead of every trigger having to look through the whole state machine for its event, it's now needing to look just for a specific type of trigger.

50:00 [Franck]: I can answer this, they're two, they're two things to this. [Franck]: First of all, I think most, I think I know most of the triggers we're introducing are actually under the hood just relying on the state trigger, but they're building on top of the state trigger and making it easier to give you an example.

50:16 [Franck]: many people struggle with unavailable and unknown data and unknown states and trigly and toggling between those traits from to and then not from and not from and not to things like that we extract away. [Franck]: We're not going to ask you for attributes in these new triggers or for like handling certain unknown states and things like that.

50:36 [Franck]: We'll take care of that for you in a same default way so you just get [Franck]: triggers on the doorbell price, for example, and not have to think about how to hold that and how to handle an available one, things like that. [Franck]: So in that way, they are made easier that you don't have to know the quirks.

50:55 [Franck]: You just want to trigger and ensure a triggers on those cases they actually set. [Franck]: So it's more [Franck]: You don't have to know the state machine again, back to that one. [Franck]: So that's one. [Franck]: The second one is because they are now extendable and can be provided by integrations, because it's literally the light integration that provides to the light failures.

51:14 [Franck]: And the sensor integration that will provide the sensor traders, right? [Franck]: And the media player integration that provides to media triggers. [Franck]: It also means that other integrations can now provide triggers and conditions. [Franck]: So let's say of your FAFORM, favorite energy supplier.

51:30 [Franck]: Has, I know there's some country. [Franck]: I used this in a sample quite a bit, but there's a country somewhere with an energy supplier that has one hour free energy every day. [Franck]: And that's probably them, the cheapest hour. [Phil]: Let's try everybody to get three hours of free every day.

51:43 [Franck]: Right. [Franck]: But the moment of the day can change, [Franck]: in this particular case, so you'd not always know when it's the cheapest moment, even if you have something like I want to have the cheapest moment, there are providers like I would tibar and tibar actually knows which moments are cheaper.

51:58 [Franck]: They could now actually ask the integration expose specific triggers for their integration into the UI. [Franck]: that triggers when the energy is cheap. [Franck]: So if you then build an automation to charge your car, it could be used as a trigger or whatever energy you should apply a half that triggers when the energy is at the lowest price and then start charging my car.

52:23 [Franck]: Things like that are now possible. [Franck]: So this opens up tons of doors for everybody that builds integrations to make more purpose-specific triggers. [Franck]: And what we want to do right now, [Franck]: to defend everybody like building a lot of triggers for things that we should deliver from the baseline.

52:41 [Franck]: And we are building it for every building component we have, like like like binoculars. [Franck]: And all those things you're familiar with, the climate, that stuff should just be provided by awesome already working out at the box. [Franck]: And this should be the baseline feature set. [Franck]: And if there's something that we do not cover, an inspiration could cover for it themselves.

53:00 [Franck]: That could be very specific to them. [Franck]: Would you have a recommendation like if we're writing an automation and I'm not working on it with the attention yet is there a an efficient way to write an automation like to use less resources we're needing to trigger all I actually saw an example two days ago on the Dutch forum Tweakers I saw an example from somebody who's tried to debug their automations and they actually had a very big trigger Like trigger and a whole bunch of entities [Franck]: and then their action, they had a choose, and there were two cases and the choose that were of cats and the others were always go to default, which was empty.

53:40 [Franck]: Meaning they would get a lot of things triggered, and the automation would run a lot of time, and it's complain was it's not working, but I cannot see why, because if I look in the traces, I also see all traces going to the default, which makes sense because that's a lot of stuff that records, right?

53:55 [Franck]: So how [Franck]: a like try to make your triggers specific if you can and if you can like look at your conditions because conditions are often open seen by many people but a condition actually determines if the automation should run yes or no. [Franck]: So if you stop those runs at that point because the condition doesn't.

54:17 [Franck]: match. [Franck]: Then you also prevent the thing from being triggered, you prevent it from being at the stack trace recorded, it makes you debugging way easier, and you can also test your triggers up front, right, and you're your conditions up front. [Franck]: But you can still run it forcibly by passing the condition so you can still test it.

54:34 [Franck]: I think that's something that I would definitely recommend. [Franck]: I've not the example of building automations. [Franck]: I am somebody who builds automations in a different thing. [Franck]: I should draw on different ways. [Franck]: I should block about that once, but I'm more somebody who tries to build automations in such a way that it doesn't matter when you trigger the automation.

54:53 [Franck]: It will always ensure things are in the right state. [Franck]: For more technical people, I've originally back in the day contributes to Ansible, I'm very much used to a concept, and it's a concept I also apply inside of homelessness than in my automations. [Franck]: It's a different way of automating, I'm not sure if it's better.

55:11 [Franck]: But if you want to make your automations efficient, don't trigger on too much, and make sure you put in conditions to not work with. [Franck]: But in general, automations are not necessarily a performance bottleneck for us. [Franck]: Okay, let's go today. [Phil]: Right, I don't know, it's something, yeah, come up a few times, and I was like, I wonder if there is like an efficient way to write that automation.

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56:28 [Phil]: So for the best prices on all zoos products head over to the smartesthouse.com that's the smartesthouse.com [Franck]: Agnes, by the way, from such a great person to me, fair. [Rohan]: She's awesome. [Franck]: Oh, yeah, she's so awesome, it is. [Rohan]: They, uh, I just thought they just, uh, they just did some stuff with the, uh, Z-Wave Alliance that, uh, like, they just had a big, uh, conference or whatever, right?

56:53 [Rohan]: So, uh, they were headlining. [Rohan]: It's, it's actually cool to see how, um, zoos is kind of on top of all of these things, right? [Rohan]: Like, again, they, they work with you guys for, uh, obviously they're, uh, [Franck]: So that's her partner. [Franck]: Yeah. [Franck]: Worst of the homeless system part.

57:10 [Rohan]: Yeah. [Rohan]: They're running a lot of stuff for the Z River Alliance. [Rohan]: And stuff like that. [Rohan]: And it's like, OK, that's pretty cool. [Rohan]: This this company that came out of, not seemingly nowhere. [Rohan]: I mean, they've been around for a while. [Franck]: But it's perhaps a rhyme mindset.

57:24 [Franck]: The mindset we all should embrace to be fair in an open community like we are. [Franck]: And that's also why they're in the program, right? [Franck]: To be fair. [Franck]: Like if you want to be with the homeless system program, you have to be a community player and they are. [Franck]: and definitely align with our values, so that's amazing.

57:42 [Rohan]: For sure. [Franck]: Talking about the automation changes, by the way, because we skipped one important topic here. [Franck]: There's one change that's not discussed yet. [Franck]: If you enable this new purpose-specific trigger, not only will the triggers and conditions change, but the way you add your triggers and conditions and actions will change.

58:03 [Franck]: There's a new dialogue. [Phil]: That's really what you've had here that the UI has changed. [Phil]: I did mention that sort of what's said we'll go into it. [Phil]: But yeah, we did completely skip over that. [Phil]: You're right, the new UI, so it does move things around completely, shifts things around so that it's more logically led to more like a hierarchy, I would say.

58:24 [Phil]: So you start off with your areas, your labels. [Phil]: Did that have to go through a lot of like a design process to sort of decide on, [Franck]: yeah user research and design in general but this is more how you approach it so besides thinking about what you want to do right I want to trigger when motion is detected there's not a part here and that's where and that's often where your journey starts right you want to turn on the lights in the living room that's your purpose area [Franck]: Finding the right trigger condition and navigating to and through a through a huge list.

58:58 [Franck]: If you look at actions right now, you have to know the domain, right? [Franck]: You're looking for the climb with domain because you want to do something with your climate, because it's the climate entity, although you're actually looking for your thermostat. [Franck]: It's a little bit confusing at times, but it's probably...

59:12 [Franck]: more. [Franck]: What can I do with this device? [Franck]: Or can I do on the floor? [Franck]: So if you now open up the dialogue you have, they're still there multiple tabs. [Franck]: So the old tab of just list my triggers and list my actions. [Franck]: So list my conditions is still there and there's also a tapful building blocks.

59:26 [Franck]: Those are still there too. [Franck]: The default top, however, is the target because everything out supports targets, it can start by selecting your target. [Franck]: In this case, for example, living room or this specific sold-in-us media player in your house. [Franck]: And as soon as you select that one, the list of triggers and conditions available will be filtered down to give you, like, this works best for this one and these are available for the thing that you've selected.

59:54 [Franck]: meaning you don't have to go through a huge list of available items. [Franck]: You just get the items that are applicable to the thing you want to automate with. [Franck]: It's just a not a way to approach it, right? [Franck]: Instead of approaching it, like I'm want to turn on a lot, you're like, hey, I've just lifted my little lights and then you got like, okay, you can turn it on or for change the brightness, for example.

1:00:14 [Rohan]: Great. [Franck]: It's the turned around approach. [Franck]: Instead of going from, I want to do this surface action call, you're going from, I want to do something with this device. [Franck]: What can I do with it? [Phil]: Which, and I think that's what I really struggled with, with the current UI, like you would select a device.

1:00:37 [Phil]: You would just get like completely irrelevant stuff like all you would go the other way and you try and choose I want to where do I go to find this so it was easier for me to go Oh, this is going back to entity ID and an action. [Phil]: I like I can undo it that way This is like just give me the relevant Things that I don't like it.

1:00:57 [Phil]: I don't care about that random service call that I'll never use that's there for a legacy Just care about it's a [Franck]: make the navigation better. [Franck]: So this is, it depends a little bit on how you want to navigate your home and how do you want to add this. [Franck]: But the both are in there, some people just like to filter it down.

1:01:14 [Franck]: And I think one of the next steps, maybe in the future, but that now is picking up front for the ideas we have. [Franck]: It would be even possible to say, like, um, this defies specifically. [Franck]: We know it's a 3D print or this is more interesting than that status light toggle that's on there.

1:01:29 [Franck]: You want to maybe have a, the, the triggers forced the print job finished. [Franck]: It's probably the most important one, push that one to the top, right? [Franck]: Recommend that or we see stuff in this automation already happening. [Franck]: It's a very light, uh, handled automation. [Franck]: The automation triggers for lights probably should.

1:01:47 [Franck]: should be shown more earlier. [Franck]: Then, so we can, this is something you use often. [Franck]: We now have way more abilities to do stuff around your home than our more relevant. [Franck]: We know what you're looking for if you drill down through your home. [Franck]: We can offer better suggestions in the future too.

1:02:05 [Franck]: But that's not there yet. [Franck]: Right now it's just like, hey, I have this device. [Franck]: I have this entity. [Franck]: What can I do with it? [Franck]: A wall, unless you detrares conditions and actions that are [Franck]: And if you add them at that point, by the way, it's also automatically pre-filled in, as a target.

1:02:21 [Franck]: So if you do living room, you select lights on, and you add that trigger. [Franck]: It will already be the living room configured in that trigger for you. [Franck]: Yeah, and one shot. [Rohan]: And then obviously, you can back out of that if you want to make changes, whatever. [Franck]: Yep.

1:02:37 [Rohan]: Nice. [Rohan]: All right. [Rohan]: Dashboards, my favorite topic. [Rohan]: So Dashboards has gotten quite a bit of love here, too. [Rohan]: And so first of all, you can set a system wide default dashboard, which is, I know people use this different ways that I've been looking for this for a long time.

1:03:00 [Rohan]: Yes. [Rohan]: I think it was either you and me, Frank, or myself and Paulus that we're talking about this or maybe all of us were, [Franck]: where we were talking about it at some point. [Rohan]: Yes, yeah, about a few times. [Rohan]: Why we do it on a user-based setting. [Rohan]: And I didn't actually even been on the podcast.

1:03:16 [Franck]: So I was like, what's the device-based setting actually? [Rohan]: Sorry, yeah, it's the device-based and user-based, right? [Rohan]: And it's like, so for me, I was like, I know, but I hate this. [Franck]: You made the most beautiful default dashboard for your house, right? [Franck]: And then you have to like, configure it everywhere.

1:03:36 [Rohan]: great and then and then I get a new device and it's just that giant list of every single thing and as a default, right? [Rohan]: So I'm really like my product. [Phil]: If I'm on my tail scale network or my [Phil]: It's different. [Phil]: It's super. [Phil]: Yeah. [Rohan]: Yeah. [Rohan]: Yeah.

1:03:59 [Rohan]: Yeah. [Rohan]: I really didn't like that. [Rohan]: And I've seen the same do fill it. [Rohan]: It's like. [Rohan]: So now, so now you can set it on a system wide. [Rohan]: Hey, you know what? [Rohan]: By default, everybody gets this dashboard. [Rohan]: And then you can make your one-off change on like a specific tablet device or something, right?

1:04:18 [Rohan]: And do it that way. [Rohan]: So it's like, hey, I've got my tablet. [Rohan]: Make it change. [Rohan]: Great. [Rohan]: Maybe that doesn't need my whole home thing. [Rohan]: Maybe I have the care of the sort of things. [Rohan]: the other thing as well, tying back to our labs piece that we were talking about is stuff not marked experimental anymore because that's where labs would be and and the home dashboard it's gotten promoted to a full and whatever nice big feature.

1:04:46 [Rohan]: It's a real feature. [Franck]: It's general available. [Franck]: Yes. [UNKNOWN]: Cool. [Rohan]: So that is pretty nice to I love the the home dashboard personally and it's just I think it's just it gets me 95% of the way I need to be and then I just wait there extra five right. [Franck]: Well, I'm sorry, it's 95% is definitely the goal, right?

1:05:09 [Franck]: You want to build a dashboard that is out of the box working. [Franck]: I think, especially if you, again, start out with homelessness that you start your adding some devices, you're already overwhelmed and having something there. [Franck]: That's like already like 95% of the way, at least gives you like that.

1:05:24 [Franck]: And if you're at some point ready to build your own fancy dashboard and our community built some darn fancy fast dashboards to be fair, like that's good. [Franck]: Um, yeah, I, I really like it. [Franck]: I want us to think that we haven't done yet, but hopefully we'll land in the upcoming releases is making this new home dashboard.

1:05:44 [Franck]: Actually, the default home dashboard, because that's not the kitchen, right? [Franck]: With the default dashboard is still the old fashion one that's actually, uh, [Franck]: a baster child from the state the baster board back in the day if you remember that pre pre lifeless yeah pre a lawflase indeed long time ago but that's still there and it's actually not the best experience ever so the new dashboarders definitely better it's just it's over well [Franck]: it is overwhelming.

1:06:12 [Franck]: That makes no sense. [Franck]: So I think there's a lot of improvements in here. [Franck]: This dashboard indeed brings you 95% of the way and makes a good candidate for being a default. [Franck]: Although even for this one, we're not 100% done yet. [Franck]: There are some things we still want to do, but it's enabling completion.

1:06:29 [Franck]: And the stop that needs to be taking care of as well as how do you make it new default dashboard for? [Franck]: Well, from new users and CCRs, from new users, it can just be that experience. [Franck]: For existing users, you don't want to break experience either. [Franck]: So we need to look into patterns and how we can migrate people if possible.

1:06:46 [Franck]: So these are things we're looking into right now. [Franck]: But the new home dashboard is there. [Franck]: If you want to use it, use it, try it. [Franck]: Let us know how it goes and how it feels. [Franck]: And yeah, even this release, by the way, has a bunch of new features for the Home Dashboard, including a new Cybar in the Home Dashboard.

1:07:03 [Franck]: I like that one. [Franck]: Yeah, for you. [Rohan]: It's called a what? [Rohan]: Oh, that was like a for you. [Rohan]: Yeah. [Rohan]: Yeah. [Rohan]: And it's, and that, if I remember correct, that's based on like what you, what it thinks you're going to do next kind of kind of deal, right? [Rohan]: And that's like, you [Franck]: That is well, but also like weather and things like that are in there and that's some common things.

1:07:26 [Franck]: It's just a feed of your home basically with that's interesting. [Phil]: Right. [Phil]: The for you sidebar can be added to other dashboards as well, where it's only for this. [Franck]: If it can, if it falls for you how more fitling right now. [Franck]: But you can make that better and more pluggable.

1:07:44 [Franck]: But right now we're happy we've got it in here. [Franck]: You could copy it into other places. [Franck]: But that's you need to fill a little bit that can be done. [Phil]: There's also an undo feature. [Phil]: There's been copied over from the script editor as well. [Franck]: Yeah, talking about the life improvements here.

1:08:06 [Franck]: This is a good one. [Phil]: Yeah. [Phil]: Undo 75 changes or store them with single click. [Phil]: Um, so I don't know how often people or have bigger changes people making to their dust draws in in one sitting, um, but 75 should be Apple. [Rohan]: Can I ask where where did 75 come from? [Rohan]: Was that just an arbitrary, like, we're like, yeah, this is 75 or like, like, why not 74 or why not 76?

1:08:33 [Franck]: It's one of those questions, like, and limits is also not an option. [Franck]: I need to, like, half or something. [Franck]: I don't know where 75 is coming from. [Franck]: It sounds like a nice number. [Rohan]: Fair enough. [Rohan]: Yeah. [Franck]: I was like, I like to have a different number.

1:08:45 [Franck]: Feedback is a way to go. [Franck]: I, I, I, I honestly, though, no, it's not nice and round. [Franck]: Why not? [Franck]: Yeah. [Franck]: Why not 50? [Franck]: Yeah. [Rohan]: Why not? [Rohan]: That's funny. [Rohan]: Like, like, when you, [Rohan]: use this right now when you use the areas dashboard right now there's a chance that you're current favorites might disappear in the release and then have to get re-added right and that's [Franck]: So while it was experimental, we're still dealing with former changes in how we store things.

1:09:15 [Franck]: The way it works now is a little bit different. [Franck]: And during this change, you might need to reconfigure them. [Franck]: You can hit the top right button there's a way to configure the panel and reattem at that point. [Franck]: But that's part of the experimental things that can happen right.

1:09:33 [Franck]: It's unfortunate, but that's the case. [Franck]: A little bit of a wha that's a warning there. [Rohan]: I mean, that's really all there is with the, with the dashboards piece, but I, I'm really happy to see that this is a direction that, that, that, that hopes this is choosing to go and I know even when this was initially released to the creators, we first talked about it, we were, I was like, I don't know why this isn't a default, right?

1:10:02 [Franck]: And then again, like talking for people that have been around a long time, if you think about back at the stage dashboard, if you've been in that era, if you wanted to group things and you're stayed dashboard like a couple of lights and you actually have to make an actual light group basically as we call it today.

1:10:21 [Franck]: to make them appear as a group in the UI, and if they were in two groups, it would be weird, and you had to hide things in your customization towards who hide things from your dashboard. [Franck]: It was crazy. [Franck]: There was no way to actually form your dashboard besides, like, [Franck]: all A.L.

1:10:41 [Franck]: Andy, but it was fiddling with the devices and entities in order to form your dashboard. [Franck]: And right now, you just, we, drag and drop, do you know how long it took for drag and drop to be there and how everybody was always screaming for that and how normal it is nowadays to do that?

1:10:57 [Franck]: You just hit edit, you start dragging and dropping something together and building out those sections and whatnot. [Franck]: It's so good where dashboard came from and looking at dashboard [Franck]: whether it's such a night and day difference. [Rohan]: It's funny because if I were to use the original dashboard today, I think that would actually be a barrier.

1:11:17 [Rohan]: Like if I was a brand new home assistant user, and I'm talking entirely just myself here. [Rohan]: If I was to use that today, I would absolutely just be like nang to use something else instead of home assistant, right from this original state dashboard. [Rohan]: it is extremely overwhelming and the reason I say that is because it's I don't I guess as I mature now it's like I don't have time to sit there and hide stuff group stuff like do those kind of things right and it's funny you were talking with a grouping and I didn't entirely forgotten that that was the thing right until until you just mentioned it right and it's like yeah this is a lot of work right just to get a somewhat usable dashboard.

1:11:59 [Franck]: I think we should go back and maybe like we'll be a good last thing we're on just to install home assistant 0.68 because that's the one that got the authentication and usually there's a password before that that didn't even exist. [Franck]: So we got user counseling 0.68. [Franck]: I think it would be fun to install that one once and see how far we can get it.

1:12:22 [Rohan]: Let's do that. [Rohan]: and go through and manipulate it one by one. [Franck]: Yeah, exactly. [Rohan]: Exactly, but my strength, I'm good at it. [Phil]: So, 25.12 brings in a new power sensors and energy sensors to the Energy Dashboard. [Phil]: This is probably what you do. [Phil]: I really love the, well, what are we calling it now, the purpose-specific triggers, but the new power sensors in the energy dashboard I think are my favorite in this release.

1:12:54 [Phil]: So you can now track real-time grid consumption, see how much you're exporting and back to the grid, and watch those lots flow in real-time. [Phil]: The power configuration options now appear alongside [Phil]: and your power graphs let you see the power consumption throughout the day. [Phil]: So I've got a few Ikea and Zidwaves smart plugs around the house that I have always had energy monitoring that appeared in the NG dashboard.

1:13:22 [Phil]: I now went into my NG dashboard, found those devices and then just clicked over and added the power entities that also exposed. [Phil]: from those devices and it's cool right like I can now see in real time where what's using like I could walk into a room and the lights will turn on and I could see the lights and now drawing power and it's all in that thank you chart and you can if it's got hierarchy you can see it goes in from this room to that device it is really like I need more energy models around the half of cities [Phil]: I'm looking into Shelley, realize our power monitors for my switchboard, but yes, I need more data.

1:14:05 [Phil]: And this one feature alone is to tell me that. [Phil]: Just to watch things move around the house, it'll be cool. [Rohan]: Your electrician, sorry, Sparky is going to be very happy with you. [Franck]: It's one of the most requested college. [Franck]: Yeah, it's going to get so cold. [Franck]: It is, it is one of the most requested features for the community for the energy dashboard.

1:14:27 [Franck]: And I think, energy dashboard in general didn't get the attention it deserves to have. [Franck]: To be fair in the last few years, we've been busy. [Franck]: As you've seen, but we're now putting a little bit more effort into the energy dashboard as well. [Franck]: Right now, Paneras really working on that on my team.

1:14:45 [Franck]: This guy, he has done all the stuff with the graphs and the Sanky's heart. [Franck]: He's the original creator of the Sanky chart as well as when it was still a custom integration or custom component, though custom card, all those terminologies went away. [Franck]: Anyhow, it needs a little bit of love and showing power usage in energy dashboard.

1:15:07 [Franck]: always has a little bit of weird thing how you could figure that. [Franck]: Also, it's an energy dashboard not a power dashboard. [Franck]: We might rename it to utilities at some point. [Franck]: I don't know, but [Franck]: Seeing PowerDair was just requested a lot because it tells you something about what's happening right now instead of what happened, right?

1:15:25 [Franck]: And as you use it's over time, it's by far the most interesting thing because it tells you something about your cost, yeah, effects your half on the environment, things like that and how you can do better. [Franck]: But what's happening right now was also interesting because it tells you a little bit like why am I using that much in an intuitive way?

1:15:41 [Franck]: That's more answering that question. [Franck]: Having that in there is very good. [Franck]: Things like that, I really want to see over time is maybe what is my baseline usage, whatever that entails. [Franck]: But there are apps in there. [Franck]: I don't even know how to answer that question with baseline usage.

1:15:59 [Franck]: But what is the lowest point of energy I have? [Franck]: That would be used standby usage, right? [Franck]: What's the lowest dip I have in a day? [Franck]: if that is 200 watts. [Franck]: What can I do to lower that? [Franck]: Because that's 200 watts I use throughout the day, right? [Franck]: Being able to get that down to 150 at some point means I'm like having 50 watts throughout the day last basically, where's that common form?

1:16:21 [Franck]: So these kind of learnings you can get from power that helps with, with energy. [Franck]: So I'm very excited to see what's going to happen with the energy dashboard and how we going to structure this and iterate on this in the upcoming [Phil]: And also added to the Energy Dashboard is downstream water devices as well.

1:16:41 [Phil]: So now if you are in water usage in your home and you can somehow track the devices in your home to a level you can now see that similar to the way the Energy Flow goes. [Phil]: Um, I'd love to see if you've got some devices you're using to track water, um, in specific places in the house, um, the water flow, um, yet hit us up feedback at home.

1:17:01 [Phil]: This is not a famine. [Phil]: It's not what devices you're using because I think that, um, something that needs to be. [Franck]: I would love to install a droplet on the, on the pipes that go to my shower. [Franck]: Yeah, I'll play this one of those devices and then see how much water goes to the showering, like compared to the rest and stuff like that.

1:17:17 [Phil]: Yeah, and you can do time, you know, my show being is the most if it's the time I, you know, my kids are sharing, then maybe you can put some more emotions and I'll tell you, shout too long today. [Phil]: You don't get to get your Nintendo as much. [Franck]: But I'll speak here in the bathroom that's sort of shouting automatically so you don't have to.

1:17:33 [Franck]: Stuff like that. [Rohan]: I'll talk about it. [Rohan]: I'll turn off the heat here. [Rohan]: A lot of automation ideas coming out. [Rohan]: Yeah, I'm in towards your children. [Franck]: Actually, yes. [Rohan]: It's, uh, I love how the three of us just went full DAD mode right now being like, again, so you're not going to believe.

1:17:53 [Rohan]: Please water use a bit of my own. [Franck]: Automatically reduce screen time if you shower too long stuff like that. [Franck]: Yes. [Rohan]: Yeah. [Rohan]: That's right. [Rohan]: Let's go ahead. [Rohan]: Are we seeing a lot of water usage? [Rohan]: I know I know power and electricity monitoring is becoming very common these days.

1:18:13 [Rohan]: Are you seeing the same frame on the water side or even natural gas or anything like that? [Franck]: I think it really depends on the country and what I want to cost money or not. [Franck]: Like what are you in here and an island is pretty cheap, it's still you have to pay for it. [Franck]: But in many countries it's fitable for free or more spares and some others.

1:18:31 [Franck]: And the same goes for any dashboard, right? [Franck]: I was in Iceland in February and we're talking about the energy dashboard and when guy raised his hand, like we don't care, like we have. [Franck]: So thermal energy enough here, we don't care about like energy usage that much, right? [Franck]: So that depends, every single thing depends on the country.

1:18:50 [Rohan]: Yeah, that's interesting. [Rohan]: All right, Android, so starting with app version 2025.11, you can now add entities to widgets and Android auto favorites directly from the entities more information dog, no dialogue, wow dog. [Rohan]: That's nice. [Rohan]: So you can just go in to say, yep, yep, and add it to Android Auto, right?

1:19:15 [Rohan]: As you go through different entities and that is pretty nice, actually, I really like that. [Rohan]: So in a couple of taps, you can just say, hey, [Rohan]: how can I quickly control these entities on the home screen and then have them as favorites. [Phil]: That's the Android user blessing like the old way was just an absolute pain.

1:19:35 [Franck]: I'm not an Android user, so I cannot benefit from this feature yet. [Franck]: I don't know if you'll listen in, please. [Phil]: Anyhow, that's fine. [Franck]: You'll get the nice thing about this is the add-to feature already existed, as you can add something like we could, we want to extend this work, add this entity or use this entity automation, add it to your dashboard, things like that.

1:19:59 [Franck]: But the fact that [Franck]: The interaction that's interesting here is that the mobile app can say, like, hey, I have some things you can't answer to. [Franck]: And if you click that, you get a blur unified experience that at two all of a sudden mixes the reality of homelessness with your device that you're on, you can add it to your app or, sorry, not your app watch.

1:20:16 [Franck]: So you Android watch or some watch or whatever you have, your pixel watch, pixel watch is right, right? [Franck]: I'm such an Android [Phil]: or Galaxy Watch, that's probably actually some Motorola Watch. [Franck]: The Galaxy Watch, something else, Earth Watch. [Franck]: You can put it on there with the app button and it's just nice to see those interaction having your app affecting basically homelessness than to make it more integrated there.

1:20:40 [Franck]: So I think that's a cool addition. [Franck]: I hope to see more of those seamless integrations. [Rohan]: Yeah. [Rohan]: I just recently got an apple watch, so I've been enlightened. [Rohan]: I've always hated apple watches, and then I've actually gotten some before and then given them to my parents or whatever, I hate this, and then I just got one now, and he's a free sleep tracking, he's a lot of that kind of stuff.

1:21:05 [Rohan]: That is actually stuff I would love to bring in to. [Rohan]: home assistant and actually have automations on for like hey now is a great time you have an alarm set for 730 you know what it's 715 and you're in a perfect site right now to wake you up wake you up now kind of thing right and then I'd love home alarm assistant to be able to do that kind of stuff but [Franck]: I think this and it's health that all right how how how good are you with exporting the health that everyone in your home in too.

1:21:35 [Franck]: I'm not any system at all even home assistant. [Franck]: Yeah, that's a good question. [Rohan]: I don't know, but I'm I am not. [Rohan]: That's what you're asking. [Franck]: No, it's sleep health data. [Franck]: Like, I have a sleep map. [Franck]: I have one of those with things for sleep analyzers.

1:21:52 [Franck]: Yeah, yeah, that's. [Franck]: But they are interesting to trigger on, like, if somebody is in the battle or not, mostly to be fair, but like, exporting actually health data, and something else, I don't know. [Franck]: I'm not sure, even if in, in, in, in home systems, [Rohan]: Yeah. [Rohan]: Yeah, I get that.

1:22:15 [Rohan]: I get that. [Rohan]: It would be cool though. [Phil]: ASP Home, the NCI-Ds are changing for new devices, so ASP Home integration has been updated to let home generate the NCI-Ds previously. [Phil]: SP Home would generate entity IDs based on its logic, which was different to the way home assistant was generating entity IDs.

1:22:43 [Phil]: So now they are all in sync, everything will be right in the world. [Phil]: If you have an existing SP Home device, those entity IDs should not change, I believe. [Phil]: Thank you all. [Franck]: Yeah, don't go on rather than make it right now. [Franck]: This is nothing changes. [Franck]: Like, this system will be fine.

1:22:58 [Franck]: That's okay. [Franck]: But the way it works is that entity IDs [Franck]: Often, it defies an entity, right? [Franck]: It's like created from that and generated as a slug, basically, that's how every integration does it, except the ESP home one, which has been confusing. [Franck]: We've now standardized it so everything just works.

1:23:17 [Franck]: The same in home system, which is kind of nice. [Franck]: So there's no surprise there, but we definitely now breaking any existing experience. [Franck]: So take a breath, everything will be okay. [Phil]: 2025, there's been a lot of love, I think, for Cat Little Boxes we've had a few guests this year talking about their automations around Cat Little 2 year.

1:23:37 [Phil]: It's one of those integrations that's also joining the bandwagon. [Phil]: So the Cat Little Boxes as part of the two integration can now expose switches, buttons, lights, and sensors for controlling all your pets automation needs. [Franck]: Just to circle back to a very old saying, would you like cats or dogs on the cat first personally?

1:23:59 [Rohan]: I'm a dog person. [Franck]: I used to ask a question back in the day. [Franck]: Love on stream like cats or dogs. [Rohan]: Anyhow, I said act like dog. [Rohan]: So that's a fair. [Rohan]: If there's a true name there. [Phil]: Open AI now supports chat shippete 5.1 which is good. [Phil]: Is there any reason why, like, was there any underlying need to make that, like we just make it generic in that any one could choose what version of opening I endpoint to use?

1:24:35 [Franck]: It's just the model that's being communicated actually, what the difference is, as far as I'm aware, I pretty sure I'm aware actually, because I'm sure like in, like in, [Phil]: LLM Vision, sorry, LLM Vision. [Phil]: Light LLM, I think I'm going to specify manually in free text field, you know, choose cheatpd4, so you know, if a new version comes out, I can just manually write it.

1:25:05 [Phil]: So yeah, SQL, the SQL integration now supports using templates in your queries. [Phil]: giving you more flexibility when querying your database. [Phil]: That's actually a very handy one. [Franck]: Talking about a way to like mess up performance, this is why be a good one. [Franck]: Use it with care by the way.

1:25:24 [Franck]: In general, database querying, you can mess up pre-ease-leave it to it, right? [Franck]: Doing it with templates can be more surprising. [Rohan]: Yeah, I guess that's that's more really you you really want to be a power user to start using those kind of I don't have to just know what it's great it's there like fills absolutely right the handle we care Yeah, yeah Well, be it bang and all of a sudden Can now use the Beirame one I guess with the homosus and with the homosus and then the remote buttons are exposed [Phil]: I guess the local card in our supports are filtering by state making it easier to see specific events.

1:26:11 [Phil]: This one is that's actually very useful. [Phil]: Yes, absolutely. [Rohan]: Um, bar gauge, there's now a min and max option for the bar gauge feature, um, for the, for, in your tile cards there, so you can now, uh, get a little more granular control over the gauge range. [Rohan]: Um, I don't use the bar gauge, but I know a lot of people that that do set up school.

1:26:35 [Phil]: And that's all as a little special for mental tool. [Phil]: Right. [Phil]: Make the dashboard just a little bit noise. [Phil]: Yeah. [Franck]: And it's also helpful for sense of that don't set the min and max, right? [Franck]: Because that would be pretty, uh, useless. [Rohan]: Yeah, yeah, totally rude.

1:26:51 [Phil]: All right, let's talk some new integrations. [Phil]: Errorbot, you can now control and monitor your Errorbot smart thermosets for intelligent floor heating via a local REST API. [Phil]: So thank you for making the local REST API. [Rohan]: Yeah. [Rohan]: Angry in her, in Jillian. [Rohan]: One of them.

1:27:11 [Franck]: Water. [Franck]: I try to do adjustments. [Rohan]: in the UK. [Rohan]: You can now use that smart water meter to track water usage in consumption costs. [Rohan]: We're just talking about that. [Rohan]: That's great. [Phil]: Backblaze B2, if you are right, backblaze B2 cloud storage, you can now use a storage bucket as a backup location for home assistant.

1:27:32 [Phil]: I love this one. [Franck]: Yeah, don't get me wrong. [Franck]: Back up to now because I cloud as well, but I back up most of my stuff in my house to backplace myself. [Franck]: I'm a customer, I like their offering. [Franck]: I like my NASA and my computers and such, I back up to them. [Franck]: Being able to also send my home assistant back up there, it makes it now for me the single spot where at least everything is there, it's stored, right?

1:27:57 [Franck]: It's nice to see, and then you can get adds to the choice of where you want to store your backups. [Franck]: And choice is important in homelessness, so this is a nice one to see. [Franck]: It's a big well-known provider that a lot of people use and care about, yeah, nice, just nice. [Rohan]: Yeah, that's cool.

1:28:18 [Rohan]: It's, I really dislike my provider, but they are cheap. [Rohan]: I kind of stuck to them, and they force an app on you. [Rohan]: It's, and if I'm wondering, it's crash plan. [Rohan]: They force an app on you. [Rohan]: I'm grandfathered into this like SMB plan that I signed up for years ago. [Rohan]: And it's like, it's so cheap.

1:28:43 [Rohan]: Restores are like super cheap. [Rohan]: I think free, whatever, right? [Franck]: So it's like, kind of like, I used to back in the day too. [Franck]: It's, yeah, it was nice. [Rohan]: Yeah, but they started locking it down a lot, so which is, I don't love, but um, all right, a scent or a scent.

1:29:04 [Rohan]: Why am I reading all of the ones I can't pronounce a scent? [Rohan]: There we go, I think a scent. [Franck]: Yes, it's from the Netherlands, so that's easy to live. [Rohan]: So the monitor dynamic electricity and gas prices there through this integration and you can bring in the [Phil]: That is nice, usual, or a Google, that's just nice.

1:29:34 [Phil]: You can now Google weather as a source for weather data, providing it current conditions hourly forecasts for the next 24 hours and daily forecast for the next 10 days. [Rohan]: Anna, I can't pronounce this one. [Rohan]: Fetch is pooled water quality data from your Hannah pool controller device.

1:29:54 [Rohan]: So you can bring in pH chlorine or P values and the water temperature, that's nice. [Franck]: Unless it's Spanish, of course, that's Hannah. [Franck]: Yeah, it could be, I'm not saying that. [Phil]: Anna, Anna, oh, they say, I don't know. [Phil]: Philips Hue barely, so the Bluetooth lights can now be directly controlled with home assistant without the need for a hue bridge.

1:30:17 [Phil]: So that's actually very exciting. [Phil]: I know Philips sort of did the double take you know that did a how we're supposed to be and they can also put Bluetooth in these new versions of our light bulbs. [Phil]: So yeah I think that's a very good that needs to now directly control them with barely.

1:30:34 [Rohan]: Yep. [Rohan]: And another one I can't pronounce. [Rohan]: I'm going to say it's Sonam. [Rohan]: To create your Sonam, Leo saw that control unit to precise the control temperature and monitor your Sonam's operation. [Rohan]: I'm pretty sure Phil laid these out so that I would struggle with everyone.

1:30:56 [Phil]: Victron BLE, you can now integrate the Victron Energy devices that support the Bluetooth low energy protocol for real-time monitoring. [Phil]: So if you got some energy monitoring with BLE, that's great. [Phil]: I do want to start with the next. [Phil]: I'm not trying to stuff you up here around.

1:31:14 [Phil]: There's nothing else for you to trip up on, but I do want to start with the next, about the first backwards compatible change. [Phil]: Template help is Frank. [Phil]: The legacy format for template help was in young was being removed in 2026.6. [Phil]: And you repair item will be added to your home assistant [Phil]: I now have an additional, like, 15, 20 other pairs, thanks to this.

1:31:47 [Phil]: Is there, so I'm guessing this is just some cleanup, like I think we are now supporting various ways to define template helpers. [Franck]: This is just, so we have gaps around the old syntax for a long time, right? [Franck]: Like for years, we already have a newer syntax for about two years or something.

1:32:06 [Franck]: But in meantime, we're growing and we're trying to make a petro, which is actually trying to make, thank you for contributing all of that petro. [Franck]: I know he does tons of work for this. [Franck]: He's trying to make it more streamlined and make sure after you feature an every single type of entity is being supported in template engine.

1:32:25 [Franck]: It is super confusing that some parts work in the old way and some parts not and only in a new way. [Franck]: It actually causes problems at some point. [Franck]: It is time to take you by after all those, all those time. [Franck]: So we cated both because we wanted to avoid just what's happening right now today, but we shouldn't have so far in that it might be time to deprecate it.

1:32:51 [Franck]: This is why we currently not listed that that's a backwards incompatible change, because it's not backwards incompatible, but it is good to mention. [Franck]: It is, if you upgrade, just nothing will change. [Franck]: It will work, everything will be normal. [Franck]: You will get indeed a whole bunch of repairs raised.

1:33:06 [Franck]: So, you know, exactly which ones you need to fix and adjust. [Phil]: Yamul, like you're actually giving me the updated Yamul. [Phil]: We're past, that is a big help, thank you. [Franck]: Yeah, that's absolutely helpful. [Franck]: He did a great job there. [Franck]: And it is, it needs to happen at some point.

1:33:23 [Franck]: You have six months for it, like, 15 of them, copy paste. [Franck]: I'm sorry, but this is making it better. [Franck]: And these are mostly templates that you already had for a long time, or because you copy it in all the one in the build on top of them, maybe. [Franck]: But in general, this is not the syntax.

1:33:41 [Franck]: We should keep around and we should start cleaning up now after all of this I think it's fair and reasonable Plus it will make, you know, I know I look at my own Templates now in the code. [Phil]: I'm like, oh, yeah, I just copy that pace it over to here and then I look at the others and text I'm like which ones are right like I don't even know right like which one I should be doing.

1:34:02 [Phil]: So just make it consistent Having multiple syntaxes doesn't make clear for many people [Rohan]: No. [Rohan]: Well, it makes documentation hard, and blah, blah, it's like, oh, if you're running version this dark this or older than do this or if you're running that and it's It's people don't understand it and it's it is already a hard subject templates are complex to be fair where you should not make it more complex.

1:34:28 [Franck]: Let me do Great. [Rohan]: All right, and another one that's a little disappointing. [Rohan]: It's going to affect a ton of users is the Domino's pizza. [Rohan]: integration, I don't know if anybody uses this deal, but oh, I guess you can, because it doesn't work. [Rohan]: But it's been removed because it hasn't been functional in quite a while, and it's been unnamed since 2019.

1:34:55 [Franck]: But, uh, it's really how long it has been broken. [Franck]: Nobody orders pieces. [Franck]: It's home, isn't it? [Franck]: That's it. [Rohan]: That's the lesson learned. [Phil]: But they can't do it, you just want to make my delivery here, you can't anymore. [Franck]: Right. [Franck]: Yeah.

1:35:20 [Franck]: It's a file gimmick where there's never been serious, I guess. [Phil]: Domino is like, they will go and look at that. [Phil]: They have a good on their apps, they'll get a watch app when the Apple Watch came first came out. [Phil]: I think I've read somewhere that they more of it. [Phil]: If we're company, then a fast food chain, like they do look a lot of active, like, every company wants to be announced.

1:35:42 [Franck]: That's a tech company nowadays. [Franck]: It's more of a trend than anything else. [Phil]: All right, core and supervised installation methods and 32-bit systems. [Phil]: These installation methods and architectures will no longer receive updates, including security updates, and they were a bit of deprecation warning for the last six months as well about these.

1:36:04 [Phil]: If you are still using one of these installation methods or architectures, please migrate to a supported installation method and architecture as soon as possible to continue receiving security updates. [Phil]: I think there was a big [Phil]: Discussion around these, you know, six months ago, like, I think fundamentally, you know, home is at the, you know, the chat, you know, we're supposed to be supporting the old hardware and stuff, but this is just something we can't do anymore.

1:36:28 [Franck]: So there's a difference between supporting and sustainability, something that often came up to be fair. [Franck]: This has been also in discussion for over a year now, public discussions as well. [Franck]: This is an arts sector that's being [Franck]: pretty much announced. [Franck]: I've wrote a dedicated block about it six months ago to explain why we're doing a social use basis.

1:36:52 [Franck]: And some people say like, hey, you're doing a way of 32 bits of systems of what about sustainability. [Franck]: They're now that many users, actually, like really, very low numbers. [Franck]: And the complexity that of keeping these systems working is high. [Franck]: And the build resources we have for those, like the machines that are testing on those, like, aren't detectors.

1:37:15 [Franck]: I'm actually shipping home systems and then build all the packages around it. [Franck]: The amount of hours they burn in, like, computer resources and data sensors, [Franck]: sustainability factor that's not working. [Franck]: It's just, it's, it's very troublesome to keep them up. [Franck]: And the, the, the truth is, a lot of external projects we rely on, including like all the Linux distributions out there are dropping 32 bit support.

1:37:43 [Franck]: We're constantly fighting and battling work around sooner to keep that working. [Franck]: I'm very happy. [Franck]: We have now stopped supporting it. [Franck]: I'll [Franck]: It allows us to ship faster. [Franck]: There's so much benefits for us that we can put effort in things that matter more than to, sorry for the people that are affected, but just a few thousand users, not even, probably not, that have a lot of them, even have the opportunity to migrate to 64 bits.

1:38:15 [Phil]: If I don't, like, 2025, 11 would be the final supported, so they would stay on the level 11. [Phil]: That's not exactly up. [Rohan]: Yeah. [Franck]: They could, although I strongly recommend to the migrate the way. [Franck]: Yeah. [Franck]: That's easy, right? [Franck]: By the way, it's easy.

1:38:33 [Franck]: Make it back up, right? [Franck]: And restore it back up. [Franck]: If you've never done that, it is extremely well working. [Franck]: It literally is. [Rohan]: Yeah, it is, and again, the Navocost's description, because even easier to backup, that's true. [Rohan]: But you should definitely have more than one source for backup.

1:38:53 [Rohan]: So. [Rohan]: Hi, I've removed their support for their security products, so they'll remove now the alarm control panel from the integration scan and the high API no longer supports that. [Phil]: So there's that. [Phil]: Sure. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [Phil]: All right. [Phil]: Well, I think that covers 2025, um, 12, um, a couple of, uh, asking me things before we wrap up today.

1:39:22 [Phil]: Um, uh, Frank, 20261 is going, uh, there is going to be a 20261 release. [Phil]: So I don't be a January release. [Phil]: Um, we'll be covering it. [Phil]: Um, there are first release episodes. [Phil]: We'll be on a January 7th next year. [Phil]: Um, and we'll also be at CS at that time as well.

1:39:39 [Phil]: Frank, I have to see you there. [Phil]: Absolutely. [Phil]: We've got a couple of episodes bringing out the air. [Phil]: So this is our last episode for the year. [Phil]: We have two more episodes coming out. [Phil]: We've got Network Chuck, who I've just seen. [Phil]: I've shared. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

1:39:58 [Phil]: We've got a legend. [Phil]: Listen, on our Patreon, it will be released next week. [Phil]: And we've got a just smile. [Phil]: I'm Josh from Josh's smile home. [Phil]: We'll be running out the year. [Phil]: So a couple of great episodes to try out the year, and we'll be back in January. [Phil]: Zeus, of course, of continuing sponsoring us, and we'll be continuing, you know, doing as many episodes as we can if we can.

1:40:25 [Phil]: And getting involved in the community, hearing everyone's stories. [Rohan]: Yeah. [Phil]: Frank, thank you so much. [Phil]: This was a poliette longest podcast we've done. [Franck]: It was a happy subject though. [Rohan]: The last one was the same. [Rohan]: The last December was like, I know we had to cut it off and do it.

1:40:45 [Rohan]: That's going to relax. [Franck]: That's how I took it over, right? [Franck]: But this is like the changes in this release, especially around automations, is something to highlight and to think and talk through. [Franck]: It's a huge change. [Franck]: I'm so looking forward to where we're going to build with this and how community is going to react to all of this and how it features going to be fall.

1:41:04 [Franck]: And then the question is, where are you going to do next here? [Franck]: We'll see, surprise, I guess. [Rohan]: It's a mepics app. [Rohan]: Let's leave them on a conveyor. [Rohan]: Yeah. [Rohan]: Perfect. [Rohan]: Thank you. [Rohan]: And thank you everyone for joining us live as well. [Rohan]: That's awesome.

1:41:23 [Rohan]: If you want to see more of this kind of stuff, let us know. [Rohan]: Then we can do this kind of stuff. [Rohan]: Um, and then like they'll say, we're going to be a CES, so let's, uh, we're going to try to put at some cool content there too. [Rohan]: Yeah. [Franck]: Yeah. [Franck]: You're on YouTube right now live.

1:41:42 [Franck]: You know what to do, right? [Franck]: Like, subscribe and the bell. [Rohan]: We're, we're so bad at this at the whole [Rohan]: We're clearly not in marketing and we don't do social marketing well, so Thank you for that Frank, but yes, that will be please do like please do like subscribe and here we go Awesome, thank you everyone.

1:42:10 [Phil]: Thanks everyone [Phil]: If you want to share your home's isn't journey or come on as a guest, reach out to us at feedback at haskpodcast.io. [Phil]: That's HASSpodcast.io. [Rohan]: The home assistant podcast is hosted by Phil Hotiron and myself, Rohan Keremandi. [Rohan]: For links to topics we discussed today, check out our show notes on haskpodcast.io.