I Am All In…Again: Is Dean’s mom being frosty with Rory? (Season 5 E4 “Tippecanoe and Taylor, Too”)

I am all in. Again!

I am all in.

Again!

With Scott Patterson and iHeartRadio Podcast.

Hey everybody, Scott Patterson, I Am All In Podcast, 111 Productions, iHeartRadio, Media, iHeart Podcast. We have a recap episode here, season five, episode four, and we have a very special guest, Wiley Smalls, an actress, three decades, roles, various TV shows, Murphy, Brown, Beverly Hills, 90210, Lethal Weapon, American Horror Story, Bones, Ally McBeal, and in the 2020 Oscar-nominated film, Manc. She played Dean's mom, May, in one of Gilmore Girls episodes. Welcome to the show, Wiley.

Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.

Great having you. We know you haven't.

Watched the whole series, but how did you feel about watching your episode back?

It was amazing. It really was amazing because I never got to see it when it first aired. And so I only got a little clip of it. So to see it all together and then start watching all the shows, it really is a wonderful, wonderful show. It's a wonderful episode, I have to say. And yeah, I loved it.

Take us back. How'd you get the role?

I was brought in by Jamie Rudofsky, casting director, who had cast me in one other, I think it was The Practice episode. And little independent films. And so I was excited to find out that I was going to be auditioning for Gilmore Girls. Oh, my gosh. So I walked in and the audition room was packed with all kinds of people. And I just knew I wasn't going to get it because all these people, recognizable faces. And I thought, oh, they're going to take those people, not me.

So I had two scenes and, you know, you'd kind of just beat down the nerves and just say, well, I'll do what I do. So when they called me in the room, I did the first scene, which was with him and her. And then I thought, okay, now the next scene. And they said, well, go out in the hall and open the door and do it through the doorway. And I thought, Oh, that's different because I hadn't seen any of the other actresses. They came in and they left. And I thought, oh, they're going to hear what I do. OK. So I went ahead and did it. And then I said, thank you very much and left. And then when I got the call, I was shocked. I really was. I thought, oh, they liked what I did. OK. Yeah.

You get recognized as Dean's mom.

I do. I do. Even with this hair, people say, oh, you look familiar. And I know they're thinking about that. Everybody watch that show.

Everybody.

Yeah.

All right, we've got season five, episode four, Tippecanoe and Taylor 2, air date October 12, 2004.

Rory and Dean awkwardly moving through their relationship.

And a fight with Taylor at the town meeting turns into an unexpected election for Stars.

Hollow, meaning, meanwhile, Lane.

Finally admits her feelings for Zack, directed by Lee Shallot Channel and written by Bill Pratty.

Rory and Dean.

Paris has Asher's 18th century printing press.

Rory hates it.

But meanwhile, Dean comes over to Rory's dorm and Paris wants to have a plan when she brings boys over. They... Then as they try to hang out again, Dean says he can't make it to Yale because Lindsay is using his car.

So she drives back to Stars Hollow to his house.

And when she arrives, she greets Sister Claire, Mom May, your character, Wiley.

And it's awkward.

May even says Dean's dad is in the basement and sends his hello.

Dean knows it's awkward for Rory, so he apologizes and It seems to be awkward.

May yells at Dean about the alarm, and Clara is blaring her music, a typical family scene. Next time they hang out, they're parked in a park, and they're trying to make out in the car, but it's weird vibes all over again, and Dean gets upset after Rory invites him to Jackson's rally because he doesn't want to rub their relationship in other people's noses. Dean comes to the rally anyway, and apologized to Rory and kisses her in public, saying things are going to be better now. Then Rory asks if Lindsay didn't find the letter, would he still have left her? He says, yeah, of course. Wiley, you made things a bit awkward for Dean and Rory. Tell me about working on that scene with Jared and Alexis.

What was your day on set like?

It was amazing. It really was, because... first of all, you're working on the show, but you're in, I had never worked with a female director before. She was wonderful. So they set everything up and it went really fast. I remember that. And they had me come out and they blocked it and they gave me that towel. And I thought, okay, this is great. And I went in and very kind. I remember that. I remember just thinking, Jared and Alexis are just so nice to work with.

And so, yeah, I did my thing and then I went back into the kitchen and, you know, I think we did a couple of takes and that was about it on that one where I say, you know, Dean's husband's in the basement. And then when we went upstairs to the bedroom part, we had to take a break. And I remember everybody just hanging out. Nobody went to their separate trailers. Everybody was just chatting and hanging out with everybody. And I thought, oh, this is really a nice group. They're really working well together and they like everybody.

So it was nice. It was fun.

Well, this relationship course they're on is not going well. Seems doomed to failure, even with Dean's unsure response to Rory's question about Lindsay.

Do you Do you think she's feeling it as well?

Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

Definitely. Definitely. I remember because I can't save call sheets and I pulled out the call sheet and it said Claire is excited to see Roy. His mom is frosty. And I thought, yeah, that's that's what it is. The mother is definitely frosty toward Rory because she's protecting her son and she knows her son is making some bad choices.

Does it seem like they're trying to make it work because of the mess they've made with their decisions?

I'm not sure if they're... I think they're just excited to feel that again. And I think that they're kind of figuring that part of it out. They're rekindling. And I don't think you're thinking a lot at that time when you're rekindling something. I think it's just so nice to have that happen again and know the other person is feeling that. And then you're not really thinking about the consequences. I think that pops up a little bit more when they're in the car. Don't you?

Yeah, I do.

All right.

Trouble with Taylor. I'm going to get to this Taylor stuff.

After Jackson has built a greenhouse, With the best tomatoes on the East Coast, Taylor tells him there's a problem with it. And it will be brought up in the next town meeting.

Uh-oh.

And then at that meeting, Taylor tells Jackson his greenhouse is too close to the edge of the property.

It needs to move six inches. This is absurd, according to Jackson.

And out of fury, he says he is running against Taylor for town selectmen. Suki and Lorelei are running the campaign inside Luke Steiner, and Luke and Lorelei lovingly bicker about it when then Jackson uses his baby to get votes. Meanwhile, Taylor gives everyone free ice cream. It's the most harmless little show, isn't it?

It is. It's fabulous. That's why it's classic. Everybody watches it over and over and over again.

It's voting day and everybody is gathered at Luke's and they think Jackson's going to win. Lorelei sees Taylor in a soda shop by himself and starts to feel sorry for him. So she leaves the rally and asks people to vote for him. And at the rally, Jackson comes on stage and regrets running for selectman and admits he doesn't want to do it.

They'd cheer him on anyway and call him an honest man.

Yeah. Jackson ends up winning and he doesn't have anything to say about it. And then Taylor gets on stage and do a speech, ask for a recall election. Nobody claps. Everybody starts talking to Jackson about their issues at Luke's. Meanwhile, Lorelei's, uh, walks upstairs to greet Luke with champagne, but he is sleeping and we see.

Them learning about each other, uh, in a relationship.

Uh, all right. All right. Jackson is reluctant, uh, He's a reluctant town hero in this episode.

But did you, Wiley, did you feel bad for Taylor as well? I think so.

When you get the vote count and you realize over a thousand people voted for him and then only 10 people voted for Taylor I was like oh my gosh I kind of felt bad because he didn't really want it but he was standing up for his greenhouse of course I liked I liked how they played that you know and oh my gosh and.

That's about his uh contentious as it really gets uh amongst the town people i mean it gets a little heavier with the with the main characters but just such wonderful comic comic effect yes all right lane and her boys lane brian zack are going grocery shopping and afterwards she calls rory.

Telling her she likes zack.

She doesn't know if she should tell him because she doesn't want to break up the band.

Uh-oh.

The band gets, you know, let's talk about that. Have you ever been involved in a theater production? I already know the answer to this. TV or film where you can tell who's zooming who, as we used to say. um yes and does it affect the quality of the work.

It's awkward it's really awkward it is right yeah you can't you don't know how honest to be when you're saying something and who's gonna who's gonna get back to and you know all of that and yeah that that is really really tough and I think it's worse when you're in a band, I would think, because it's such a smaller group.

Right.

She's the only female in that band.

Yeah.

And being a drummer, she's got it really tough on both sides, I think. But, yeah, that's difficult. But I think she handled it well. She had to say something.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

Well, the band gets booked, shockingly enough, to play Joey Scarborough's Believe It or Not for Jackson's election rally. But they aren't thrilled about it, so they play their own rock version. And afterwards, Zach has groupies over at the apartment, and Lane blurts out that she likes him. He doesn't know how to take it and goes outside to get some air.

Ah, OK.

That was tough. That was tough because you kind of know what's coming and you're thinking, oh, how is he going to handle this? What is she going to do after that? And then he leaves the two girls on the sofa and just walks out, gives them their beer and then walks out. Oh, I felt I wanted her to run after him and say, wait a minute, you know, let's talk.

Yeah, she she she blurted it out. You think she should have just stayed quiet?

No, no. I think it was time.

Yeah.

I felt the pressure. I really did. I wanted her to say something and let him know. Yeah. She's living in that house and he's bringing girls home and she cares about him. Oh, I would have said something big time.

Right. Well, let's talk about your, uh, your many and varied experiences throughout this industry. What's it like being involved in an Oscar nominated film like you were in Mank?

That was an experience to be on set with David Fincher in a David Fincher film. And it was a, first of all, it was a period piece. So The costumes alone, what I was wearing was the real thing.

Right.

From the costumes themselves and every process of it, the casting of it and getting on set. And I also said to the costumers, I said, I have a lot of period jewelry. Should I bring that to the fitting? And she said, please. So I ended up wearing some of my grandmother's earrings and a ring. from that time period.

But all the crew was English and they had all the balloons in that ballroom scene where the balloons fall. Everybody had to be quiet in between takes and everybody got up and helped pick up the balloons. It was very communal kind of thing.

And he.

Kept us in our seats. So we filled out the whole ballroom area and, um, got to be there and watch Gary Oldman work. Oh my God. Who wouldn't want that?

You know?

Yeah. Tell us about that a little bit. And did you, did you, did you have to audition? Did you audition for Lorraine Mayfield? I did.

Yeah.

Yes, I did. Um, it was put on tape for, and, At the time, my next door neighbor was a makeup artist. So I said, please get up and do my makeup. And I kind of went in dressed in a period type, you know, a long black velvet skirt and something that was a little not really period, but something that kind of gave an idea of the time period. And I went in and I did my first audition on tape and submitted that. And then I got a call back.

So I had to do the whole thing. And then they called us in three at a time because they were hiring the three Hollywood wives. So we went in in groups. Right. And, you know, that that can work for you or against you in some ways. But it turned out that one of the other girls that was in my group was was one that was hired. So it was her and I. And then they brought in the third.

Oh, good.

Yeah.

So.

Being on set and watching him work take after take. And he's just fascinating because you think, oh, you're watching for everything he's doing. And then you're thinking, well, maybe that doesn't seem like a lot, but it is because every single thing just shifted a little bit here, a little bit there. And then you see the whole thing and you're like, yeah, no, he's amazing.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, he really is.

It's like watching a master class.

What did he do differently that you witnessed from other actors that you've worked with?

What separates him?

The freedom. He just had a lot of freedom. But when I say I've been on set where, you know, you never know your actor is going to be the person they're, really fun going or they're very focused or he was kind of a combination of all of that. He was so free. They didn't have to worry about, um, getting his lines. He was just very free to be able to say, okay, I'll do this. And, and he would get a little note or something, or he would go back and they would discuss and he would come back and sit down and, He was playing drunk too.

So that was another thing to kind of fun to watch.

Yeah.

Yeah. Great. Yeah.

Hardest thing to do.

Yeah.

Hardest thing to do.

Yeah. And it wasn't a sloppy drunk, but. Right. He just a little bit over the top where you think, okay, he's had just a little bit too much. Right. Champagne.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

I auditioned for her for, for LeRae for a house of cards to play.

The president of the United States.

Oh, okay.

And I thought it went really well and I was hopeful. And then, you know, Kevin Spacey hired his buddy from Juilliard.

So I auditioned for that show as well.

Did you really?

Yes. The secretary of state.

So I'm so disappointed, but you know, I think I was great. I mean, he was great. You gotta, you gotta give him, there's, there's.

Don't you find that, though, there's so many great actors out there and you just don't know who they are. They're all working in regional theater or touring. There's just a lot of really talented actors out there. There's just not enough roles to go around.

That's why I think I get what is right for me. And I just go into the audition and think, all right, let's just work and thankful that you have the audition and move on because you get an opportunity to act so i never i never uh get too upset about the ones that i don't get i say that every now and then i do get upset yeah.

It's really hard not to to try to pretend you don't really want it because it was you know These projects are few and far between, you know, and I don't know about you, but I don't get called in for a lot of them. But but it's when you get one, you really want to hit it out of the park and make an impression.

Yeah, What's the saying? You're going in to book the room and not the role.

Right.

Right. That's it.

You have to have that mindset. Yes.

You've got to flip the psychology in that room or you're not going to get anywhere.

Yeah.

So if you do well, they're going to remember you.

Yes. But you really have to own that room. You know, you have to. I don't know.

I just think it's a good idea to come in as the character and just leave.

And I don't like the chitchat before and after. I don't like that.

I do not either.

I don't either.

And, you know, thankfully, my experience in those big rooms is they don't want to chitchat.

No.

And if you try to make conversation, then it gets awkward.

You know. Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah. God, who did I?

God, I walked into, there was a room I walked into.

John McTiernan directing.

Okay.

And that's a big room to walk into. And it was just silent. Oh, no. They're all just waiting.

Yeah.

You can kind of tell.

Yes.

You can tell.

I look and I say thank you and I leave. But you can tell if they're looking up at you, if they're not making eye contact. You can always tell. You're like, okay. And then, yeah, there are ones where you walk away and you think, oh, can I go back and do it again?

I think they know when you walk in if you're right.

Yes. You don't even have to speak. I mean, they might as– I remember– oh, man. The shortest audition– I mean, it lasted a millisecond.

What happened?

Howard Fuhrer thought I would be good in New York, thought I'd be good for the Buffalo Bill killer in Silence of the Lambs. So I read the book, the Thomas Harris novel.

I prepared. I was all ready. And this was to meet Jonathan Demme.

Oh my gosh.

And, and to read for him.

And I, and I, so I go and we, you know, Howard said, John's a little late, so we'll wait.

So that, that was, you know, more pressure.

Yes. And then Jonathan Demme walks right in, he walks right past, he says, you know, and then he said, you know, he gets in his office and we come in and he just, he just looks up from his, from his papers and he, and he just looks at me and he goes.

I'm sorry. You're just, you know, I don't want to waste your time. You're just the wrong physical type.

I'm sure you're a wonderful actor and thank you for coming in, but you're just not how I see the character.

And that was it. It was over.

You didn't even get a chance to do that.

Didn't get a chance to read. No, no.

That was a little, that was one of my first opportunities too.

Yeah. I was living in New York. I was studying in New York.

I was doing theater in New York. Got this really nice audition. I mean, this is like, And I know I could have killed the role.

I know it.

But if they don't see it, it ain't happening. It doesn't matter. You know, they, they have a very specific vision. The great ones always have that. And you've got to be that walking in. So anyway, um, Oh, I could talk about this all day. Thank you so much for your time, Wiley.

Please come back.

Thank you.

And I appreciate the time. Remember, best fans on the planet. Keep those cards and letters coming. We read each and every one of them. We appreciate them so much.

And remember, where you lead, we will follow. Stay safe, everyone.

Hey, everybody, don't forget, follow us on Instagram at I Am All In Podcast and email us at gilmore at iheartradio.com.

I Am All In…Again: Is Dean’s mom being frosty with Rory? (Season 5 E4 “Tippecanoe and Taylor, Too”)

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