564: Overcoming Fear, Making Movies, and the Way of the Warrior Kid. With McG.

0:00 [UNKNOWN]: This is Jocquopont Cas number 564 with echo Charles and me, Jocquo Willink. [UNKNOWN]: Good evening, echo. [UNKNOWN]: Good evening. [UNKNOWN]: I did the videos in a complete do-it-yourself culture. [UNKNOWN]: We just did it. [UNKNOWN]: We ran from the law. [UNKNOWN]: I didn't know that you could have a producer who could help you procure a location and get insurance and a camera package.

0:21 [UNKNOWN]: It was very raw and where the honesty and visual style, the aesthetic came from. [UNKNOWN]: I come from the rock and roll world where people throw TVs out of high-rise hotel windows and drive motorcycles into pools. [UNKNOWN]: And those right there are some quotes from Joseph McGee McGinty Nickel, a music writer, a video maker, a film and TV producer, a director, a dad, a husband, [UNKNOWN]: And one seriously passionate, energetic and unstoppable friend who I was lucky enough to work with in turning the way of the warrior kid from books into an amazing movie.

1:11 [UNKNOWN]: And his life has been wild. [UNKNOWN]: He's overcome some serious challenges, muscle through rough failures and achieve some incredible success along the way. [UNKNOWN]: And it's an honor to have Mick G with us here tonight to share some of his experiences and lessons learned. [UNKNOWN]: Mick G.

1:30 [UNKNOWN]: Delighted to be here boys. [UNKNOWN]: So happy to see you guys just instant smile. [UNKNOWN]: Anybody wants their world to improve Just say hello to Jocco say hello to Echo and do your thing and that dog on ran That might be my favorite person on the planet of her so watch out now. [UNKNOWN]: She's coming hard nothing but smiles and the best the best [UNKNOWN]: All right, so let's get a little bit of a background, so you're born in Kalamazoo, Michigan.

1:53 [UNKNOWN]: How long did you live there for? [UNKNOWN]: I was born in Kalamazoo, Michigan. [UNKNOWN]: My whole family's from Pennsylvania. [UNKNOWN]: But my dad had a PhD in microbiology and got a job for the Uption Company. [UNKNOWN]: Uption at that time was based in Kalamazoo. [UNKNOWN]: and I was born in that window.

2:06 [UNKNOWN]: So I was there for two or three years and then his company sent him out to California. [UNKNOWN]: And that was the beginning of that chapter because my dad loved road and track magazine and it was in Newport Beach, California. [UNKNOWN]: So he lands in LA because I'm going to go see the headquarters for road and track magazine.

2:22 [UNKNOWN]: Drive down a newport beach and hit some like a lightning bolt. [UNKNOWN]: This is it. [UNKNOWN]: This is where I want to stay. [UNKNOWN]: Up John drags him back so we go back there for another two years so that's ages maybe four five sixish but then we ultimately land back in Newport so I identify almost completely as a kid from Newport Beach, California which was a very, very interesting place at the time kind of very surf culture very, very laid back it was before sort of the real housewives culture and it was an awesome [UNKNOWN]: Idealize sort of a place to grow up.

2:54 [UNKNOWN]: My dad was a football coach, sports was everything to me growing up, but I grew up in a house filled with music and filled with film, older brother, older sister. [UNKNOWN]: So people go, when you turn on a music, when you turn on a film, I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. [UNKNOWN]: My sister's listening to disco records, my brother's listening to Black Sabbath, my dad's listening to jazz, and we're always going to see be at the sound of music or taxi driver when I'm too young.

3:15 [UNKNOWN]: And that was just the vibe. [UNKNOWN]: And everybody was a surfer, and my best friend growing up at the time was Mark McGrath, the sugar egg guy. [UNKNOWN]: And we were both, you know, for lack of a more delicate way of putting it, kind of chicken chips when it came to, we were both tiny! [UNKNOWN]: And we were hanging out with the dudes that were bigger, like the strapping guys that were on the water pole team and, you know, be the lifeguards.

3:35 [UNKNOWN]: And we'd always just kind of, you know, chicken out when the waves were pumping and all the boys would want to go out. [UNKNOWN]: And that's even how I got my nickname, McFly, because I would go paddling out and, you know, just not ever interested in taking off on a wave, but if I got caught inside, there'd be a set and I'd get pitched.

3:50 [UNKNOWN]: And when I was getting pitched getting air, the whole line-up would go McFly! [UNKNOWN]: And I'd get pitched, so we found our way to the local record store and sold our souls to Rock and Roll. [UNKNOWN]: And that was the era of punk rock too, so we were really, you know, early 80s, late 70s, we really went all in and that was that.

4:07 [UNKNOWN]: And your buy-in records are going to see shows. [UNKNOWN]: All the time, there was a place called the Kukus Nest, a very, very famous venue in Costa Mesa that we were a little bit too young to get into, but it changed the name of the concert factory. [UNKNOWN]: And we used to ride two buses and pack our pockets with food sticks.

4:21 [UNKNOWN]: Remember those horrible, [UNKNOWN]: food sticks and fruit rolls and just try to get someone to buy us tickets so we could wiggle in and we'd see, you know, all kinds of shows and not to affect us tremendously and we had that dream that dream was always rock and roll and film in the arts, but it didn't seem like something you could choose and I was on an academic path and was pre-med at school.

4:44 [UNKNOWN]: And I studied psychology and I studied comparative culture, but when it became time to sort of get around to go into med school I finally took a deep breath and went, this is not my dream. [UNKNOWN]: This is my dad's dream and my dream is rock and roll And I looked at this guy Rick Ruben did and why you dorm room where he's like, here's a white Jewish guy [UNKNOWN]: who has plugged into hip hop culture and he knows that old cool Jay knows the guys and run DMC, he's going to NYU and he goes, I'm gonna bring this to the world.

5:09 [UNKNOWN]: And at that time, I had Mark as my friend, he wasn't the greatest singer but he was super handsome, so I'm like, let's make a video. [UNKNOWN]: Then I had his buddies with this incredibly charismatic girl in Anaheim, Gwen Stefani. [UNKNOWN]: And then I knew these guys who unfortunately were pretty strong out of the time, the guys in sublime and three guys in sublime, Bradley and Eric, you know, and but.

5:29 [UNKNOWN]: And there was one black kid in Irvine. [UNKNOWN]: I used to skateboard with him. [UNKNOWN]: It was Zack DeLaroucha. [UNKNOWN]: He was a singer and rage. [UNKNOWN]: And the offspring guys were in Huntington. [UNKNOWN]: And it just felt like, wow, if I can bring this to the world, maybe we could have something to talk about.

5:42 [UNKNOWN]: So I made a video. [UNKNOWN]: So this is when you're, this is when you're in college, when you're going through. [UNKNOWN]: Yes, right when I'm finishing college. [UNKNOWN]: Now, the part of the story is that you were, you've got to know where you see or something like that. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but that's a whole chapter of this podcast.

5:56 [UNKNOWN]: But you didn't end up going there. [UNKNOWN]: No, and the reason you didn't go there is kind of an important reason. [UNKNOWN]: Well, yeah, I mean, it's sort of the defining characteristic of my life, you know what I mean? [UNKNOWN]: It's just like, I've always had... [UNKNOWN]: You know, a good sense of who I was.

6:12 [UNKNOWN]: I was very small. [UNKNOWN]: I graduated high school, Orange Afro, Net Gear, braces, five to 90 pounds, just, you know. [UNKNOWN]: But I was cool with everybody. [UNKNOWN]: I was cool with the big surfers. [UNKNOWN]: I was cool with the jocks. [UNKNOWN]: I was cool with sort of the Gothrock and Rollard because I was like this jester that was unthreatening.

6:29 [UNKNOWN]: So everybody didn't mind if Mcgee paled around. [UNKNOWN]: And right when I was around 15, [UNKNOWN]: I started having really, really meaningful anxiety attacks and not like fun ones, like, whoa, that was an early jacco. [UNKNOWN]: What was that? [UNKNOWN]: I felt like I was going to die. [UNKNOWN]: I ended up in the hospital a couple times.

6:46 [UNKNOWN]: I thought I was having hard, I didn't know what was going on. [UNKNOWN]: And the sense of dread and the downward spiral you have when you experience that is so overwhelming, like literally you can hit and punch and slap yourself in the face as hard as you can. [UNKNOWN]: You cannot feel it.

6:59 [UNKNOWN]: That's how hard and I would imagine you would know, you know, feelings of that level of pump, you know, given [UNKNOWN]: But it was really overwhelming, and what happens is, and it doesn't happen everybody but it happened to me. [UNKNOWN]: You have an anxiety attack on a freeway? [UNKNOWN]: You stop getting on freeways.

7:14 [UNKNOWN]: You have one on an elevator, you stop getting on elevators, you have one on an airplane, you stop getting on an airplane. [UNKNOWN]: And your world starts to get really, really small. [UNKNOWN]: And it's like, did these start like, what do you have any idea what triggers these things or what where it came from?

7:30 [UNKNOWN]: I'm of the opinion it's chemical. [UNKNOWN]: Because it's not like, hey man, I grow up very Catholic. [UNKNOWN]: And it's not like, hey, I got fingered by the priest and that fucked me up. [UNKNOWN]: It's just like that, that wasn't, [UNKNOWN]: I don't have an inciting incident. [UNKNOWN]: My dad who I love very much, but he was rough.

7:44 [UNKNOWN]: You know, I had a rough dad of that era. [UNKNOWN]: My dad got married 18 children, you know, 11 months later than my brother than me. [UNKNOWN]: You know, so kids, marrying kids, having kids and, you know, his parents were alcoholics and, you know, my dad had asthma, so he'd like, he'd be in the hospital with an asthma attack and his dad would be on the road and his mom was drunk and passed out on the floor.

8:03 [UNKNOWN]: So he had some anger issues and some unresolved stuff, but I don't blame any of that. [UNKNOWN]: I just think it's something that came upon me and I'll get to the point of what I think is what I like to call secondary gains. [UNKNOWN]: where, yeah, I have this problem that embarrassed me, it was horrible, but because of that, what made me able to hear music the way I hear music to deploy, you know, my thoughts and efforts into that console that's right out this building and make a record to shoot with a camera and tell a story and do the thing.

8:33 [UNKNOWN]: And even more particularly, like if you and I went down to the Coliseum right now and spoke at a 100,000 person game, [UNKNOWN]: My blood pressure wouldn't even go up. [UNKNOWN]: My heart rate wouldn't change. [UNKNOWN]: So all these weird secondary gains, because I had this waste basket of where all my proper fear went.

8:49 [UNKNOWN]: But what happened was, I got into USC, I was gonna go and my anxiety condition was so severe at that time that I had to shut down my safe zone to about five mile radius around my house in Newport. [UNKNOWN]: So I couldn't make it 35, 40 minutes up the freeway just to get to USC. [UNKNOWN]: How do you interact with your friends?

9:08 [UNKNOWN]: Like your friends knew that you're like, hey guys, I can't go to this thing It was really narrowly because, you know, my friends were all rockin' Rollers I mean, what if Gwen's the funny one to go on a date with you outside the radius? [UNKNOWN]: Like, letting it happen Like, you know, letting it happen It wasn't gonna happen for two reasons When I couldn't go outside the radius and two and three, I wasn't good looking enough to Nobody wants to make out what they do with braces that are gonna cut your lip You know, and you can't have a battle pass the neck here, so that's impossible too [UNKNOWN]: But, um, yeah, I couldn't get up there and I ended up going to UCI, which University California Irvine, which is closer.

9:40 [UNKNOWN]: And, um, you know, just to make a long story short, I made a video with the sugar ray guys and I hit it on green cassette tapes and I put it in pizza boxes and I had the pizzas delivered to all the heads of the record labels throughout America. [UNKNOWN]: And the guy who was running Atlantic Records at the time in New York, Valazoli and it was, you know, [UNKNOWN]: I'm an bird again in legendary people.

10:00 [UNKNOWN]: They opened it, put it in, 30 seconds later, they say the most beautiful words you can hear when you're a kid, sign those guys. [UNKNOWN]: So they send the first class tickets to the thing, and I never had the nerve to cop to it. [UNKNOWN]: It was so masculating. [UNKNOWN]: I was so embarrassed.

10:13 [UNKNOWN]: Because I have these breakdowns in front of people, like if you would excuse myself if it would happen and I do everything I could to bury it. [UNKNOWN]: And I didn't put myself in position. [UNKNOWN]: I'm gonna do about it. [UNKNOWN]: Everybody kind of knew about it, but they were kind enough not to rub it in my face.

10:26 [UNKNOWN]: So the guys kind of knew like, well, McGee's not going to go to New York to sign the record deal. [UNKNOWN]: Here I put together a record deal. [UNKNOWN]: I'm six months out of college and about to get a million-dollar record deal with the guys in Sugar Egg. [UNKNOWN]: And all the guys in the band spend the night at my house, the tickets are on the counter.

10:42 [UNKNOWN]: We have the first flight out of LAX. [UNKNOWN]: We have to get up at 5 o'clock in the morning, drive to the airport and go. [UNKNOWN]: And at 2 o'clock in the morning, I climb out the window of my own apartment where everybody's staying. [UNKNOWN]: I leave the keys to my Volkswagen Rabbit and I say, you guys go, I'm a little sick.

10:56 [UNKNOWN]: And they kind of knew when they were cool and they went and they had this incredible moment and they signed a record deal, which was great. [UNKNOWN]: And humiliating for me, but it didn't impede them from getting a record deal. [UNKNOWN]: So I wrote the songs with them and produced the record and made the videos and did the whole thing.

11:11 [UNKNOWN]: And the beat kept going. [UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean? [UNKNOWN]: So it wasn't until... [UNKNOWN]: I got Superman, because I did the first two Charlie's Angels Mount movies here in LA, which is impossible, as you know, like you always got to go over the world to make movies. [UNKNOWN]: Well, prior to that, so you do the, you do the, the sugar race stuff, right?

11:28 [UNKNOWN]: So now this is, but that video, what was it? [UNKNOWN]: Caboos? [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, Caboos. [UNKNOWN]: Right? [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: And people start seeing this video. [UNKNOWN]: How did you all the sudden become like the video making guy, the music video making guy? [UNKNOWN]: Well, two things happened.

11:41 [UNKNOWN]: Corn moved down from Bakersu. [UNKNOWN]: Okay, so I got in the corn camp day one when they were nothing and I was chasing them around while I saw corn in New York You know place like a little bit bigger than the room we're sitting in right now. [UNKNOWN]: Why like way before Bose that John Bose I could did the drawings for warrior kid [UNKNOWN]: I was in New York for some reason.

12:00 [UNKNOWN]: Went to see him, he's like, hey, we're going to see this band quarantine. [UNKNOWN]: I was like, okay, I never heard of him, but let's go. [UNKNOWN]: And I was going, oh my god, these guys are unreal. [UNKNOWN]: The bad part of the whole night here, it's the whole thing was going on. [UNKNOWN]: And I was before the album came out, it was crazy.

12:12 [UNKNOWN]: Right. [UNKNOWN]: So when you heard corn, [UNKNOWN]: You recognize immediately like this is a different I was explained to Ben earlier like here's music like occasionally This happens very rarely here's music here's corn like there's just outside Yeah, but that was so exciting to you and to me because Corn was taken hip-hop sounds like 808 kick drums like the drum board have a trigger right here Where he did it with the stick and it would do the boom [UNKNOWN]: You know, like you'd hear a hip-hop song and they had those funky seven string guitars that had all the dissonant sounds and they were dead and kids from Bakersfield They just had nothing to lose and had to do it yourself culture again and just thought anywhere, but here And they moved to Huntington.

12:54 [UNKNOWN]: They started to do it. [UNKNOWN]: We made the record a brilliant producer named Ross Robinson made it and I was chasing them around with a video camera and [UNKNOWN]: you know we did the video to climb and the video to climb we probably made for five or $7,000 tops. [UNKNOWN]: I had to borrow $1,000 from my buddy who had a pickup truck to get the dolly to come down.

13:12 [UNKNOWN]: We did it at the rehearsal space in Garden Grove and to this day it's one of the biggest rock-and-oh videos of all time and you guys be in San Diego guys Mason comes out for the pod race to blind. [UNKNOWN]: to this day 30 years later and they do the light show and everybody goes crazy and if you see that would stop.

13:28 [UNKNOWN]: I was going to say what's sock 99 that is not the time that you can't go harder than that. [UNKNOWN]: You just can't go. [UNKNOWN]: So to be on the periphery of that experience is one of the great privileges and highlights of my life and I still talk to those guys into the coolest. [UNKNOWN]: So you do you do blind, you do shoots and ladders, you do call your doing these videos and then who else came a cypress hill comes in the game?

13:48 [UNKNOWN]: Cypress a line. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it's a line. [UNKNOWN]: Right. [UNKNOWN]: I knew Bradley well before he died sadly. [UNKNOWN]: He was in San Francisco, bad batch heroin going around and that just bit him. [UNKNOWN]: And it's terrible. [UNKNOWN]: I lost my brother to a drug overdose. [UNKNOWN]: We'll probably talk about that, which is why I stayed really clean for a long time.

14:05 [UNKNOWN]: You know, because I was with all the rock and rollers going really hard. [UNKNOWN]: And I was always kind of the manager guy. [UNKNOWN]: And I couldn't really go to the faraway gigs because my, you know, a gorephobic problem. [UNKNOWN]: And it just resulted in my being the driver responsible one, not drinking.

14:18 [UNKNOWN]: and not doing all the drugs. [UNKNOWN]: Well, they were just blowing their brains out going bananas. [UNKNOWN]: And, um, yeah, I just never really, never really went down that track, you know, so, yeah, a wild pinball of sorts, but yeah, cypressil came into it and... [UNKNOWN]: Offspring, biohazard, by the way, East Coast hardcore.

14:34 [UNKNOWN]: I got a representative of it. [UNKNOWN]: Absolutely, and I put jaws in that biohazard video. [UNKNOWN]: I think I was the metal teeth, Richard, why am I forgetting his last name? [UNKNOWN]: who's no longer with this rest of the soul, but Joss is awesome in the bond pictures. [UNKNOWN]: And we just said so much fun making those videos and that led me to get, you know, the Charlie's Angels movies, which I was I said was a miracle that what's that phone call like?

14:48 [UNKNOWN]: Well, did Drew bear in my call you up? [UNKNOWN]: No, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it [UNKNOWN]: I met Drew Barrymore as a function of the rock and roll world, she's a rock and roller, and she was running around with a guitar player in Courtney Love's band, Hole, a guy named Eric Irlinson.

15:09 [UNKNOWN]: So we would all go out in Hollywood, and I met Drew through Eric Irlinson, and Drew goes, I have the rights to Charlie's Angels, and every legitimate director in town, and passed on it. [UNKNOWN]: And I go, I'll do it, and she goes, I want it to be like your videos, colorful, and to jubilant, and exciting, and explosive, and filled the theater with oxygen.

15:27 [UNKNOWN]: I said yes. [UNKNOWN]: So, and then, of course, I go to pitch it to Sony. [UNKNOWN]: And everybody at Sony is on pitch, and it's just like, no, no way. [UNKNOWN]: No, we hate this guy. [UNKNOWN]: What kind of guy calls himself a cheat, get out of here. [UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean? [UNKNOWN]: And it was Quentin Tarantino who saved me because I was making videos and commercials for Quentin his company a band apart So between Drugal and this guy's gonna do it and they still said no then Amy Pascal was the head of Sony called Quentin and Quentin goes I don't know I think this guy can do it and they'd be grudgingly let me do it and I was nearly fired off that thing [UNKNOWN]: Ten times because it was so weird and experimental and colorful and you know the girls are on Hong Kong Wirework doing the matrix things dipping around and they didn't know whether to shit or go blind And they came down to fire me ten times, but I'm like it's gonna work out in the end in the music That was sort of the beginning of the mix tape as soundtrack for movie and Yeah, it landed well and it was the biggest opening for a first time director in history

16:23 [UNKNOWN]: So I wrote that. [UNKNOWN]: Did you, did you, had you had in mind that you wanted to make movies like that? [UNKNOWN]: Oh, that's the goal always. [UNKNOWN]: And something I'm about to trick you into doing with me is I'm going to do a show on that era of music videos. [UNKNOWN]: Because there were only about five guys and a couple girls that were getting the songs at that time.

16:41 [UNKNOWN]: And the people were the fun. [UNKNOWN]: With the way it would work, it's like, aerosmith would send you a song on a Wednesday. [UNKNOWN]: You'd have to turn in your idea Thursday the next day. [UNKNOWN]: And then you got a shoot at Saturday and Sunday, because they're on tour, and they're only here Saturday and Sunday.

16:52 [UNKNOWN]: You know, so it was really, really fast. [UNKNOWN]: And they'd send it to David Fincher, Michael Bay, Spike Jones, Mick G, Francis Lawrence, you know, Michelle Gondry. [UNKNOWN]: You know, and the difference between all of us as we would make, you know, the Echo Charles music video was so severe like who you signed up for would affect the brand of your band to such a degree.

17:14 [UNKNOWN]: But the point I'm making is we were all trying to get our first movie so we don't go get and we were like friend of me because we were competitive of like oh you got the new thing and I wanted to get that I wrote on that but you got it and it was cool friendly competition but we would all then go try to get this movie that movie the other movie and [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, Bay came out swinging with bad boys and, you know, Spike Jones is now one of the Academy Award David Fincher blew it wide open with seven and then Fight Club and all of it.

17:43 [UNKNOWN]: So it just then I had Charlie's Angels and Brett Ratner had Rush Hour. [UNKNOWN]: So we all kind of made our mark, but we all came from the same group of [UNKNOWN]: forcing yourself to come up with stories very rapidly and then execute upon them, which was good for development. [UNKNOWN]: It's a great thing.

17:58 [UNKNOWN]: It's a great thing to be ready. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: And then would you make this movie as you're making it, I read this thing, you got paid like 350 grand for this. [UNKNOWN]: Which would have been minimum wage if you would have spread out how many hours I were less than minimum wage.

18:11 [UNKNOWN]: So it's far from like you haven't financially made it at this point, you're just... No. [UNKNOWN]: And my dad's looking at me sideways because I come from that culture of like, when you're going to get a job, you know? [UNKNOWN]: And it wasn't until, [UNKNOWN]: Hollywood Boulevard shut down there's 10,000 people.

18:23 [UNKNOWN]: I'm with three of the most beautiful women in the world You know this kid who got no chick action at all, and I'm the Hollywood Boulevard's closed down with bleachers on each side And I rolled up an vintage Camaro and jumped out and you know did a Michael Jackson split and moonwalk the fuck out of her [UNKNOWN]: Can I say, can I say that on this?

18:42 [UNKNOWN]: Sure, can. [UNKNOWN]: All right. [UNKNOWN]: So it comes out, it's huge. [UNKNOWN]: It's worked well. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, the biggest, the biggest, the biggest. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, the biggest first time, the first time. [UNKNOWN]: First, some director, biggest opening in history. [UNKNOWN]: That's got to feel good.

18:53 [UNKNOWN]: That felt really good, and that gets me to the sad, but kind of inspirational part of the conclusion, I then get trusted with Superman, OK? [UNKNOWN]: So Warner Bros. is like, hey, we want you to do Superman. [UNKNOWN]: And JJ Abrams is writing it which is hysterical because he's going on to be the biggest thing of all time But he's writing it for me and where we've been buddies ever since and they go and we've had really good luck with the matrix in Australia And we want to shoot Superman in Australia and of course my heart sinks But I never had the nerve jacco to preemptively go hey, I got a problem [UNKNOWN]: I can't accept this job.

19:28 [UNKNOWN]: I was too stubborn and I was too proud and I just thought I'm going to will myself to get over this and of course I was unable to and I was unsuccessful. [UNKNOWN]: But I'm so so you get signed to do superman. [UNKNOWN]: How long is that? [UNKNOWN]: How long are you sitting there going? [UNKNOWN]: Okay, you know, cool.

19:42 [UNKNOWN]: We're going to shoot an LA cool. [UNKNOWN]: I'm good to go. [UNKNOWN]: And then they say, actually, you're going to go to Australia. [UNKNOWN]: they were always saying you got to go out of it. [UNKNOWN]: I was trying to work them into that. [UNKNOWN]: I said to yourself, you know what, it's a free consumer man.

19:55 [UNKNOWN]: I will just grip my teeth and get it done. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, just whatever. [UNKNOWN]: I looked into getting sedated. [UNKNOWN]: It proved to be too difficult with an anesthesiologist. [UNKNOWN]: I'll get into that. [UNKNOWN]: And to tell you what kind of friend I have who isn't you, Dr. [UNKNOWN]: I had [UNKNOWN]: I'll get to that punchline about the Australia thing when I finally, you know, slay that dragon.

20:13 [UNKNOWN]: But, um, I'm doing Superman. [UNKNOWN]: It's a six eighth month prep and the time finally comes again. [UNKNOWN]: And they're just, you know, like, Most people don't understand the Hollywood thing. [UNKNOWN]: Obviously, they didn't understand it before, but like, they're... [UNKNOWN]: putting all kinds of money.

20:28 [UNKNOWN]: 10, 15 million dollars into the site locations. [UNKNOWN]: People got to go visit those things. [UNKNOWN]: They're doing story boards. [UNKNOWN]: They're figuring all the stuff out. [UNKNOWN]: Cost millions of dollars. [UNKNOWN]: They're renting the renting studios to have offices. [UNKNOWN]: It's a whole thing.

20:41 [UNKNOWN]: You bet dump in money into Mick G's 10 or 15 million dollars. [UNKNOWN]: Um, they say we'll buy you the whole first class cab and because I I tried there were two guys running the studio at the time I tried to say hey I got a real problem You know, I don't think I can get on that flight and I have this bombastic personality and they literally jocco They'd be like a dream a team and like we'll figure it out Don't it's hard to under it's really very difficult to understand.

21:05 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I'm like I but I'm not and then I don't worry about it [UNKNOWN]: Cut to the Warner's G550 is fueled and turning, you know, the AP is turning on the tarmac. [UNKNOWN]: There's one guy standing at attention, you know, to welcome me, the jet stairs are down. [UNKNOWN]: There's one name on the manifest, McGee, I go, and I'm trying to wheel myself that far, and I can't get on the plane.

21:27 [UNKNOWN]: How far do you make it? [UNKNOWN]: How do you mean? [UNKNOWN]: Did you make it to the stairs? [UNKNOWN]: Did you get? [UNKNOWN]: No, I got out of the car and I couldn't do it. [UNKNOWN]: So I was in between the car and the stairs. [UNKNOWN]: I just go back to the car. [UNKNOWN]: And I went back to the car and people didn't...

21:39 [UNKNOWN]: I didn't tell anybody like, hey, I'm not going. [UNKNOWN]: I'm like, I just left because I was too humiliated and it was truly a low point of my human life. [UNKNOWN]: Six hours later, I'm fired. [UNKNOWN]: I guess New York Times had the headline Superman can't fly. [UNKNOWN]: Yes, they love their irony, you know what I mean?

21:58 [UNKNOWN]: And it was the lowest point in my life. [UNKNOWN]: I was scared, I was alone. [UNKNOWN]: I say to Ari Emmanuel, the biggest agent in the world's life, he came over to my house, gave me how you go say, man, we're going to get through this. [UNKNOWN]: That was big. [UNKNOWN]: I get a letter from Warner Brothers.

22:10 [UNKNOWN]: We reserved the right to sue you. [UNKNOWN]: You've incurred so many damages this at the other. [UNKNOWN]: I finally limp into UCLA. [UNKNOWN]: I see two women that specialize in this sort of thing. [UNKNOWN]: Remind you, mind you, I'm not taking any drugs. [UNKNOWN]: Taking drugs is also part of my control thing.

22:25 [UNKNOWN]: So I don't deserve credit of like, I'm so spiritually strong. [UNKNOWN]: I didn't like acquiescing control to be at booze, or be at Coke, or be at pot, or be at like, you know, meth, or just anything everybody was party and in doing. [UNKNOWN]: I didn't like the idea that I couldn't just go and be sober.

22:40 [UNKNOWN]: You know, I had to ride that train and see what it was. [UNKNOWN]: The, you know, psychiatrists started helping me with my diet of all things, things I could do with my diet, but more importantly, the behavioral therapist just started talking about, I don't want to know anything about your mommy issues, your daddy issues, your girl, I don't care.

22:58 [UNKNOWN]: What are you afraid of? [UNKNOWN]: Echo, say snakes. [UNKNOWN]: We're going to the snake pit. [UNKNOWN]: Come on, but you're like, but my dad. [UNKNOWN]: I don't care about your dad. [UNKNOWN]: My knee hurt. [UNKNOWN]: I don't care about your knee. [UNKNOWN]: We're going to the snake. [UNKNOWN]: I can't go to the snake pit.

23:11 [UNKNOWN]: How close can you go? [UNKNOWN]: I can go 10 feet. [UNKNOWN]: Great. [UNKNOWN]: Go 10 feet. [UNKNOWN]: Stand there and eat it. [UNKNOWN]: Eat it for 10 feet. [UNKNOWN]: Tomorrow, can you go nine? [UNKNOWN]: I don't know, next day, eight, seven, go back to nine, freaked out how did bad day went backwards.

23:27 [UNKNOWN]: Exposure therapy, exposure therapy, exposure therapy. [UNKNOWN]: I rented a G4 from a rich guy in Santa Barbara and I slept on the plane. [UNKNOWN]: I just got used to acclimating to the fuselage and the idea of being locked in there and doing the thing until finally one day we started taxing.

23:42 [UNKNOWN]: And we would tax you around vana's and they thought we were crazy. [UNKNOWN]: And we're taxing around down eyes and the day finally came after many failed efforts where I looked at the pilot and he looked back at me and I gave the smallest nod and he pushed off on the throttle and we went and we flew from van eyes to Oxnard seven miles in a plane built to go around the world [UNKNOWN]: Uh, but it gave me confidence to try again the next day and fly back or to drive back.

24:09 [UNKNOWN]: We, we flew back. [UNKNOWN]: So I, the, I just, the flood, I just started going going going and getting better and better. [UNKNOWN]: And until one day, I left Los Angeles heading east and I returned from the west. [UNKNOWN]: I'd gone around the world, you know, with the corresponding stops for gas and everything.

24:28 [UNKNOWN]: And then I finally thought my chest and said, I'm ready to go back and talk to the Warner guys who were kind enough, they didn't sue me, we figured it out. [UNKNOWN]: And I got the movie We Are Marshall that I did with McConaughey that was about a plane crash. [UNKNOWN]: I just want to say that dragon man, I'm proud.

24:42 [UNKNOWN]: And I didn't want to give in to being such a punk. [UNKNOWN]: You know, I wanted to overcome this. [UNKNOWN]: I didn't wanted to deny my life. [UNKNOWN]: I was so embarrassed that this is who I was because [UNKNOWN]: I like to lead, and I like to lead by example, and I like to be strong, and I like to believe I'm not a coward, but I felt like I was a coward.

25:01 [UNKNOWN]: And I think this is also a huge reason why I didn't get married to a later in life. [UNKNOWN]: I didn't feel that I was worthy. [UNKNOWN]: I didn't feel that I was worthy of marrying a woman or certainly bringing children into life till I had a grip on this fundamental flaw in my life. [UNKNOWN]: And you know, as something you talk about in the movie, you know, it's okay to be afraid.

25:20 [UNKNOWN]: You gotta be more brave than you are afraid. [UNKNOWN]: And the biggest thing, and you and I weren't pals at that time, but the biggest thing I deployed, I hear you talking about all the time, which is just so essential to me. [UNKNOWN]: Motivation is great. [UNKNOWN]: Motivation is great.

25:33 [UNKNOWN]: When you're motivated to work out, man, let's go bang it out at that. [UNKNOWN]: Go, let's get it done, and, you know, I don't like doing legs. [UNKNOWN]: Let's get legs today, you know, you're motivated. [UNKNOWN]: But infinitely more valuable is discipline. [UNKNOWN]: Because then you do it anyway, in the absence of motivation.

25:48 [UNKNOWN]: And that's really in a nutshell what it took for me to never stop moving forward. [UNKNOWN]: Even the eye of the headache I see. [UNKNOWN]: And by the way, this is a terrible terrible disorder because you feel so bad. [UNKNOWN]: It gives you a migraine, you throw up, you know, it's impossible to rationalize, which is the genesis of irrational fear.

26:06 [UNKNOWN]: You can't just go, what's up, dude, come on. [UNKNOWN]: Suck it up, me and Jokor with you, let's roll, if you fall down and lift you up, let's go. [UNKNOWN]: It doesn't work that way. [UNKNOWN]: It's a totally different compartment of the brain, and you really need to learn how to sit with it and understand you're not going to go crazy.

26:23 [UNKNOWN]: You can't induce your own heart attack. [UNKNOWN]: You can't stop breathing. [UNKNOWN]: If you say, hey, I go stop breathing. [UNKNOWN]: At some point, I'm going to take a breath. [UNKNOWN]: You can't do it to yourself. [UNKNOWN]: So, it's very painful and very difficult, but I've worked very diligently, and even to this day, people say, you know, I'm sitting here talking to you, I just got off the plane from New York four hours ago.

26:41 [UNKNOWN]: They go, that's so cool, you're over it. [UNKNOWN]: But I feel like it's if you talk to somebody who used to weigh 600 pounds, and now is as fit as you guys. [UNKNOWN]: You go, I'm doing great. [UNKNOWN]: I'm eating right, I'm working out. [UNKNOWN]: This is where I want to, but like, I know if I get caught slipping, I'll go back to my 600 pound life.

26:58 [UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean? [UNKNOWN]: So I need to stay in the pocket, stay focused. [UNKNOWN]: And it's a lot of these undercurrents that attracted me so [UNKNOWN]: powerfully to warrior kid, because I could have saved a lot of time and heartache if I could have had that kind of training much earlier.

27:15 [UNKNOWN]: I didn't let it, but I didn't do anything about it for 15 years and it really baked into my life and really hurt my life. [UNKNOWN]: So the wasted time is the tragedy. [UNKNOWN]: You know, having loads to finally come back and have some highs, that's cool, but like, you know, don't waste time doing it.

27:32 [UNKNOWN]: If you got a problem, go attack the problem, see some [UNKNOWN]: You know that exposure therapy thing is, so when I wrote the original word, a kid book, the water was a metaphor for Rana who wanted to be in the school play, but she was afraid to sing in front of anyone. [UNKNOWN]: So she couldn't even do the rehearsal or what it's called, the trial.

27:51 [UNKNOWN]: Right, the audition. [UNKNOWN]: She was like, I want to do it, but I'm not scared to do the audition. [UNKNOWN]: So one day, put her in a room, and she might have been like seven, eight, nine, something like that. [UNKNOWN]: Put her in a room, I shut the door, [UNKNOWN]: Sitting here by yourself and saying, I said I'm going to be outside in the hallway.

28:09 [UNKNOWN]: So she did it. [UNKNOWN]: She learns there's nothing to be afraid of. [UNKNOWN]: The next day, I'm going to be in the hallway, but I'm going to open the door crack. [UNKNOWN]: You said, and you know, we went from there that it was mostly my wife and I, you know, in the hallway then my wife and I in the doorway and then my wife and I in the room and then the siblings in the room and then the neighbors are coming over and that's what we did and I didn't know this was a technique I just did I just did that like instinctively I did that's what we're doing, you know, and the military doesn't well [UNKNOWN]: too because you know the first thing you do is go over like an obstacle course you're going over like a tenfold wall the rope and then the next thing you know you're going over the cargo net which is you know 30 feet then you're going to slide for life which is 50 feet and then you're repelling out of an awful 84 wall and then you're repelling out of a helicopter and then you're jumping static line at 2500 feet and then you're doing free fall like they you learn how to okay there's a little bit of fear here I gotta get over that thing I gotta get over it I know what that feels like okay

29:01 [UNKNOWN]: And then you build up the capability to just overcome that fear. [UNKNOWN]: But it wasn't until I had Jordan Peterson who's a clinical psychologist on the podcast and he was he was explaining exposure therapy and I was like, oh, I actually did that with you guys. [UNKNOWN]: So you're doing your way ahead of us.

29:16 [UNKNOWN]: Yep, that's what that's what you had to do to get through this. [UNKNOWN]: Do you feel like was there any other major components of life where this impacted you or was it just so manifested in flying on airplanes? [UNKNOWN]: Well, that's the funny thing is it was very secular in the way that it was manifest.

29:35 [UNKNOWN]: And it, like I say, the secondary games are such that all these other things that people would have, you know, singing in front of people. [UNKNOWN]: I could sing in front of the Hollywood ball right now and me and you could do our, you know, Madalco impressions. [UNKNOWN]: And you know, we did not feel great about it.

29:48 [UNKNOWN]: And you know, so it was very secular, but it's funny because people be like, hey man, you're afraid of flying. [UNKNOWN]: The net result is the same. [UNKNOWN]: This is kind of like semantics who cares, but I was never afraid of flying. [UNKNOWN]: I'm afraid of being in positions that are bad places to have an anxiety episode.

30:06 [UNKNOWN]: And that would be a stuck elevator, a gridlock on a freeway, certainly a airplane at 42,000 feet above Antarctica, certainly a submarine, certainly a small boat on the way to Hawaii, certainly, you know, so it wasn't like, [UNKNOWN]: Flying because some people are actually afraid of flying like this thing's going down, man That's was never me But I was afraid to get on a plane because you're locked in a plane when you leave LA X to go to JFK That's it, man.

30:32 [UNKNOWN]: You're in a sealed dude. [UNKNOWN]: And you think that inings I'm saying a person that has these things that the anxiety attack can kill them like oh Yeah, you think that you're gonna have art attack. [UNKNOWN]: You're gonna die. [UNKNOWN]: Jaco the notion that the worst thing that can happen is you die Is perversely comforting [UNKNOWN]: That's how dark it is.

30:49 [UNKNOWN]: That you think, well, the worst thing you have is I die. [UNKNOWN]: And you're like, I don't want to die, but, oh, because it's such a downward spiral of dread. [UNKNOWN]: I don't know any other word for it, but it's totally disproportionate. [UNKNOWN]: And one of these days, they're going to figure out what's lighting up in your brain, what the dopamine, oxytocin, I wouldn't know what, something's going on, it's out of balance.

31:12 [UNKNOWN]: But again, I try to focus on the positive that I know [UNKNOWN]: music videos. [UNKNOWN]: I used to listen to songs like I'd listen to like a Boston record, you know what I mean and you know I'd listen to more than a feeling and the visual component of more than a feeling is playing out in my head.

31:27 [UNKNOWN]: You know it's kind of like this thing's synesthesia. [UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean? [UNKNOWN]: And there's no doubt that's a function of the same chemical balance in my brain that's killing me. [UNKNOWN]: with this anxiety condition, but it's helping me go I just know how to run 128, you know, strip SSL console to get the sound I want to get to mix the hip-hop sounds with the rock and roll sounds to write the song to borrow a little bit from this old song to put it all together to use the tools I have with this artists and do it same thing with the cameras.

31:55 [UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean? [UNKNOWN]: I said I studied psychology and comparative culture which are their own [UNKNOWN]: assets and Hollywood. [UNKNOWN]: It's, you know, but I didn't study camera technique or balancing, you know, the white balance or, you know, the fundamental dynamics of different lenses and what it means.

32:11 [UNKNOWN]: I learned that as I went, but I'm convinced that my chemical stasis has this horrible application, but a great many positive applications, and that helped me be less embarrassed. [UNKNOWN]: Because as a man, [UNKNOWN]: You know, I just sort of wasn't around it, but the idea that I would have this predicament was so embarrassing, it's impossible to overstate the embarrassment, because it wasn't my brand.

32:42 [UNKNOWN]: I wasn't known as like, you know, like, geez, a pus, fuck me, and I don't mean that in a drugstore way, I'm just reaching for words. [UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean? [UNKNOWN]: But like, everybody, I was kind of in with the boys and I was in the pit, you know, listening to ways to youth and the circle jerks kind of mixing it up and not really afraid to take an elbow and get a knot on my forehead.

33:03 [UNKNOWN]: You know, I wasn't a tough guy, but I wasn't a muffin, you know what I mean? [UNKNOWN]: And everybody had a hard time like, why does this guy who's one of the boys and ready to do it? [UNKNOWN]: have this thing that's just you associate particularly back then. [UNKNOWN]: It was before now when people were a little bit more tolerant of mental health issues.

33:20 [UNKNOWN]: It was a pre-PTSD world. [UNKNOWN]: It was a pre-sensitivity world. [UNKNOWN]: We're similar in age. [UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean? [UNKNOWN]: And you remember when we were kids, it wasn't like that. [UNKNOWN]: It was the world was nothing. [UNKNOWN]: It was, you know, that was it. [UNKNOWN]: I mean, again, I apologize to the wonderful ladies and the audience, but for lack of a more delicate way of putting it, it's like, don't be such a fucking pussy.

33:39 [UNKNOWN]: That's just the way it went down. [UNKNOWN]: You know, and I really hated being on the receiving end of that, and it really motivated me to one day get over it, but it seemed impossible. [UNKNOWN]: It seemed impossible. [UNKNOWN]: Now tell you what makes it so hard, and that your listeners who have this condition is it's sadly very common.

33:58 [UNKNOWN]: Here's what happens. [UNKNOWN]: Your heart starts racing and pounding out of your chest. [UNKNOWN]: You can't control your breathing. [UNKNOWN]: And you've lived your whole life if you want to raise your right arm echo, you raise your right arm, lower right arm, lower right arm. [UNKNOWN]: But when you're like, stop heart beating out of chest.

34:14 [UNKNOWN]: There's, there is no impetus back to snakes. [UNKNOWN]: It's not like I'm afraid of snakes and the snake python flew in here. [UNKNOWN]: I'm just, it's washing over me and I don't know why and I can't control my breathing and I can't control my heart and to the logical person it makes you feel like I'm not in control and that results in the problem.

34:34 [UNKNOWN]: My buddy Dakota Meyer, who is a Marine Corps Medal of Honor recipient, like, win over and over again into direct enemy fire to save, to try and save some of his guys lost to told him like it's a crazy story. [UNKNOWN]: And he was having, like, this is, you know, 10 years later, he was having anxiety attacks and I, again, I, I, I appreciate you explaining this because I'm like, what the, what do you mean?

35:03 [UNKNOWN]: Like, just, you know, just, what are you talking about? [UNKNOWN]: You, you, you've been in like the worst most dangerous situations of any human imaginable. [UNKNOWN]: And yet, you know, you're in the grocery store and you're telling me you're, he's like, I'm having panic, what are you talking about?

35:16 [UNKNOWN]: Stop having them. [UNKNOWN]: And he's like, no, it doesn't work like that. [UNKNOWN]: It doesn't work like that. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, there's got to be some kind of a some kind of chemical scenario going on. [UNKNOWN]: I really think so. [UNKNOWN]: I'm hoping when they get the maps of the brain better, AI may be as an assistant.

35:28 [UNKNOWN]: I don't know, but I'm convinced of that because I don't have the like, oh, every time I wouldn't eat my dinner, I was beaten by my father. [UNKNOWN]: And then I'd have an anxiety attack, and then every time I wouldn't eat my dinner, I was beaten by my father, and then I'd have it any good.

35:42 [UNKNOWN]: You go, dude, here's what's going. [UNKNOWN]: And those things can't happen. [UNKNOWN]: But not this. [UNKNOWN]: And it very, very conspicuously corresponded to Jaco to puberty. [UNKNOWN]: Like, dude, I was flying all over the place. [UNKNOWN]: I was afraid of nothing. [UNKNOWN]: I was the thing.

35:54 [UNKNOWN]: Right around 15. [UNKNOWN]: You know, I'd wake up in the middle, and they were just, they were so rough. [UNKNOWN]: And like I said, you know, I could slap myself in the face as hard as you could. [UNKNOWN]: I couldn't feel it. [UNKNOWN]: That's because you were trying to get it to stop. [UNKNOWN]: Trying to get anything to bounce you out of that experience, you know what I mean?

36:10 [UNKNOWN]: And it's just that breaks my heart to hear that some of the guys, you know what I got to believe is sort of like a classic PTSD trigger for the event. [UNKNOWN]: But I wouldn't know. [UNKNOWN]: I mean the mind is a very, very mysterious, crazy thing. [UNKNOWN]: I don't proclaim to understand how it works.

36:26 [UNKNOWN]: I can only talk about my story, but when I do talk about my story, a lot of people relate to it. [UNKNOWN]: And it is ironic that in a lot of other applications of life, you know me, we were on set every day from four in the morning till seven, like I'm just not a little too flower. [UNKNOWN]: you know like I just it's not my game so you wouldn't it's like your boy yeah you know what I mean is this courageous guy saved everybody went into incoming fire what could possibly be more dangerous and then something goes wrong in a grocery store and he's more afraid in that environment than he is in the war theater totally crazy kind of so it's so bizarre how the human mind works and like this is especially applicable going back to kids where

37:09 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, yeah. [UNKNOWN]: You look at your kid. [UNKNOWN]: You're like, I'll just don't worry about that. [UNKNOWN]: You know, the kid comes home with whatever problem they have, you know, which is to them. [UNKNOWN]: It's their whole. [UNKNOWN]: This is what there's one of the things that I connected.

37:17 [UNKNOWN]: One of the reasons that I wrote where your kid was. [UNKNOWN]: I had forgotten that when you're a kid or a person, a grown adult. [UNKNOWN]: Your world is your world. [UNKNOWN]: That's where you live. [UNKNOWN]: You have no, you're like a fish in the tank. [UNKNOWN]: There's no other water that you can get in there.

37:30 [UNKNOWN]: So when there's drops of chlorine in that tank that you live in, you don't know that you could just leave that tank. [UNKNOWN]: People get so trapped in their own mind when your kids get emboiled at school. [UNKNOWN]: Oh, they're calling me whatever plate faces they turn my using in, in work.

37:43 [UNKNOWN]: Okay, oh, the kids call me plate place. [UNKNOWN]: It's like, oh, who cares? [UNKNOWN]: Who cares about that? [UNKNOWN]: That's whatever. [UNKNOWN]: Sixth and seven break notes carry on. [UNKNOWN]: But, [UNKNOWN]: You cannot break people out of their own minds. [UNKNOWN]: They've got to figure out a way to resolve this thing.

37:54 [UNKNOWN]: But how can we help them? [UNKNOWN]: And Jaco, I don't know if it's appropriate to bring this up on the air, but I'll just take a stab at it and you'll be the judge. [UNKNOWN]: I'm not sure if you're aware. [UNKNOWN]: This is a terrible, terrible story I'm about to share with you. [UNKNOWN]: In our movie.

38:09 [UNKNOWN]: There is a young girl who is up against the bus when the bus is crashed. [UNKNOWN]: Okay, you know this, she's the daughter of Chad Lowe, Mary, our producer, your buddy, my buddy, terribly close to the mother, she took her home life. [UNKNOWN]: And [UNKNOWN]: The parents are trying to be very courageous about it and share their story with others.

38:29 [UNKNOWN]: And it's a cruel irony that I believe the exchange in the film is, I can't make it, I'm afraid, and Jude's character says, but you're more brave than you are afraid. [UNKNOWN]: And the idea that that happened and the degree to which you as a parent, me as a parent, you think if you just could have gotten to tomorrow.

38:49 [UNKNOWN]: You know, just whatever that bully moment was, the part you weren't invited, who knows what went into anything, or if you're properly depressed or anxious, the wheel of life is going to turn, that fish tank you speak of is going to change, you're going to be swimming in different waters, and you too wrote a song called Cotton a Moment about Michael Hutchins and how sad they were that, you know, he ended up killing himself and just this idea, it's just a moment.

39:13 [UNKNOWN]: And if you can just tomorrow might even be a good day, not even less bad. [UNKNOWN]: It might the sun might come out and you find a reason to find joy. [UNKNOWN]: And you begin to come up from that darkest places. [UNKNOWN]: But I think it's very difficult to reach people when they're in that moment.

39:26 [UNKNOWN]: But just the degree to which that hit home and I know your heart is broken. [UNKNOWN]: My heart is broken and the degree to which we are with that family is immeasurable. [UNKNOWN]: But just, um, [UNKNOWN]: You're right, it's hard to reach people when they're living in their own life. [UNKNOWN]: And you want to just tell them, it's okay.

39:43 [UNKNOWN]: Keep, you know, don't stop chopping. [UNKNOWN]: Just keep digging. [UNKNOWN]: What's your advice for that? [UNKNOWN]: I mean, your community looks to you to make sense of those moments. [UNKNOWN]: I do. [UNKNOWN]: It's all those things. [UNKNOWN]: I mean, I think one of the things when people [UNKNOWN]: understand what we're talking about.

39:57 [UNKNOWN]: Like what you and I are literally talking about right now that you get caught people get caught. [UNKNOWN]: We get caught as human beings where I've always described as like a storm cloud that's around your head like me. [UNKNOWN]: Gee, you could have just the most horrendous dark. [UNKNOWN]: Thunder clouds completely encompassing your brain, right and I'm sitting over here I'm 10 feet away those Thunder clouds are only four feet big, right?

40:19 [UNKNOWN]: No matter which direction you see all you see is dark and so all you see is lighting all you see is rain all you see is thunder and Trying to explain to people that hey like those Thunder clouds you'll be able to move through those you will get through those you [UNKNOWN]: You will see the light again.

40:30 [UNKNOWN]: It will happen, but like you said you gotta take that one more step today You gotta get through today. [UNKNOWN]: It's gonna be rough and listen that's the way life is you know life is life is hard Life is a bitch man life life knocks you down It's devastating [UNKNOWN]: and you gotta push through that and get through that next day because when you get through those clouds, there's gonna be light, there's gonna be good, but it is a gut check to get through.

40:53 [UNKNOWN]: And that's the test, that's a test of people face. [UNKNOWN]: I hear you would you recommend as someone who knows so much about this issue, preparing yourself prior to the moment. [UNKNOWN]: So you have that core and that strength that you can rely upon. [UNKNOWN]: So you're ready. [UNKNOWN]: You know, should things go terribly?

41:09 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I mean as much as you possibly can, you know, you got to try that, but let's face it. [UNKNOWN]: You and I have no... [UNKNOWN]: people that are so strong and so badass. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I mean, there's a freaking suicide epidemic from military veterans and from my own community and the special operations, there's a suicide epidemic.

41:31 [UNKNOWN]: So it breaks my heart to you. [UNKNOWN]: As well as people can prepare themselves and what better preparation can you do? [UNKNOWN]: Like you're the toughest, most badass human being out there and yet, [UNKNOWN]: You go to the grocery store and something doesn't go your way, or whatever the case may be, and all of a sudden you're in a funder club, and you don't see a solution to it.

41:49 [UNKNOWN]: So, I mean, I think it's all kinds of things. [UNKNOWN]: It's building good relationships with people. [UNKNOWN]: It's talking about one of the things that I have found, and I kind of discovered this unintentionally. [UNKNOWN]: So, I would end up being the guy that does the speech at the memorial service.

42:08 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, that's just the way it is. [UNKNOWN]: And I realized after doing three, four, five of these things, sets of these things that what I was forcing myself to do. [UNKNOWN]: I mean, this is like, you find out that your friend dies and your teammate, your brother dies, and you go, okay, 12 hours later, you're like, okay, the more surface is coming, hey, Jock, you're gonna speak, okay, well, I'm gonna now sit down and I am going to, [UNKNOWN]: Just expunge my soul into a piece of paper, cry and break my own heart and stab it and crush it.

42:43 [UNKNOWN]: But all those things are coming out on the paper, right? [UNKNOWN]: And that is a way for you to detach from it and see it and feel it and accept it and relish it, right? [UNKNOWN]: It's like you're getting on a plane. [UNKNOWN]: It's like you're gonna, I'm gonna go sleep in the cabin with all these emotions and all these sad feelings that I'm gonna go sleep in the cabin with.

43:04 [UNKNOWN]: I'm gonna get in there. [UNKNOWN]: I'm gonna go to the next, the snake pit, right? [UNKNOWN]: I'm going in there. [UNKNOWN]: In my own head, I'm going in there. [UNKNOWN]: I'm gonna write about this stuff. [UNKNOWN]: And in two days, I'm gonna stand up and front of everyone, I'm gonna say these words.

43:16 [UNKNOWN]: And that to me, and then, you know, when I got out of the military and he started doing the podcast, and now I'm like talking about this stuff. [UNKNOWN]: I'm talking about this, you know, it's sweet about Dakota Meyer, like, when Dakota Meyer, I was sitting there talking to him on our podcast.

43:29 [UNKNOWN]: And like, everything that he's talking about, I'm thinking about Mike and Montsour, who's my guy, Miller, or Scipient, I asked what I'm thinking about. [UNKNOWN]: Okay, I'm thinking about what he's going to think of, you know, Dakota lived and Dakota's carried on with life and he's married.

43:39 [UNKNOWN]: He's got kid, like, he's got all these good things to him. [UNKNOWN]: And then my mind of thinking like, you know, Mike Montsour didn't get that chance. [UNKNOWN]: Right. [UNKNOWN]: Like, it's heartbreaking. [UNKNOWN]: but talking through it. [UNKNOWN]: I believe is how you start to get those clouds to dissipate a little bit.

43:53 [UNKNOWN]: So I think writing about things, I think talking about things, I think those are the most powerful things. [UNKNOWN]: And you know, one more additional story on that. [UNKNOWN]: My best friend, Seth, was killed in a parachute accident. [UNKNOWN]: Seth was like, he was like part of my family.

44:10 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, this freaking mooching bastard was over at my house, he'd been, or six days a week, he's over there. [UNKNOWN]: And he's with my kids, if there was good waves and I would have won, he would come and pull my son out of school and take him surfing, he was in it, right? [UNKNOWN]: And so when he dies, you know, in a parachute accident, and it's just absolutely freaking terrible.

44:33 [UNKNOWN]: And he has been through so much in combat, been through so much in war, and lived through it without a scratch, and now he does in a parachute accident. [UNKNOWN]: And my son who was, you know, I would like to say he was like an uncle, but he was more like a brother, because, you know, Seth related to this young, you know, was it the love?

44:51 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it was Thor, okay. [UNKNOWN]: And so, you know, Seth and Thor, which we don't think we would serve in a five, four, clock in the morning, five, clock in the morning, driving up the coast, going about like that's what we did. [UNKNOWN]: And so, after Seth died, maybe three months goes by.

45:06 [UNKNOWN]: And Thor's, you know, he's, uh, [UNKNOWN]: 14, something like this, and he's a tough kid. [UNKNOWN]: I mean, yeah, I was tough on him as a kid. [UNKNOWN]: And he's a tough kid, and he comes home, doesn't complain about it. [UNKNOWN]: He doesn't complain. [UNKNOWN]: He knows not to complain.

45:22 [UNKNOWN]: He's not complaining about anything. [UNKNOWN]: He's not complaining about the food. [UNKNOWN]: He's not complaining about the weather. [UNKNOWN]: He's not complaining about anything. [UNKNOWN]: He's not complaining. [UNKNOWN]: He doesn't even know where in the willing family with complaints.

45:30 [UNKNOWN]: Yep. [UNKNOWN]: He comes home to me after about three or four months. [UNKNOWN]: And he goes, you know, dad, I'm sitting in class and I'm trying to concentrate. [UNKNOWN]: And I just keep thinking about Seth and I feel sad about it. [UNKNOWN]: And I found about it said, and this was what I made that first connection.

45:50 [UNKNOWN]: I said, oh, here's what I want you to do. [UNKNOWN]: I want you to go and I want you to write a letter to Seth's mom. [UNKNOWN]: And I want you to explain what you loved about him, what you cared about him, what you did that was fun, what you're never gonna forget and just go do that. [UNKNOWN]: And he did it, and he never had an issue with it again.

46:16 [UNKNOWN]: That's so beautiful, and cathartic, and I think you're right. [UNKNOWN]: I think that's a real thing, and I'm no psychiatrist, but it's clear that that's a step in the right direction, as opposed to pushing it down, not letting it out. [UNKNOWN]: But you talk about the epidemic in your community.

46:30 [UNKNOWN]: I would imagine a lot of guys don't have a lot of outlets. [UNKNOWN]: And don't have the wisdom to generate their own personal outlet, like a letter. [UNKNOWN]: Or, you know, whatever it may be, but I just think it's maybe it's the responsibility of us to reach out to everybody and check in and provide a little bit of an outlet where somebody can let a little air out of that thing and decompress, so tonight's not the night where they make a bad decision.

46:52 [UNKNOWN]: And you're 100% right because like for me and most my all my friends. [UNKNOWN]: we don't bring work home with us. [UNKNOWN]: That's a taboo to say, oh, I had a tough day at work. [UNKNOWN]: I'm going to go home and complain to my wife about whatever or bring the sorrow from my work to my house.

47:11 [UNKNOWN]: What I'm not doing that? [UNKNOWN]: So I'm not going to sit there and tell my wife, hey, here's the bad things that happened to me at work today. [UNKNOWN]: Here's what I'm feeling, no. [UNKNOWN]: This is one time my daughter said, you know, the Wi-Fi in my room is not a strong signal. [UNKNOWN]: You know, can we move the, what's the thing called echo that puts the Wi-Fi in your house, the router?

47:33 [UNKNOWN]: The router. [UNKNOWN]: Can we look at the, and I thought to myself, dude, I am, I have succeeded. [UNKNOWN]: You know, if my daughter is living in a place where like her complaint is that there's, [UNKNOWN]: three bars instead of four bars in her room. [UNKNOWN]: That's what I always try and keep like you don't want the bubble that you're putting around your families, which it's for really you want to you want to protect them for this stuff.

47:54 [UNKNOWN]: So dragging in the misery of war and all this stuff I'm not bringing that into my house. [UNKNOWN]: So most guys, that's their attitude. [UNKNOWN]: They don't want to bring the misery of the world into their house. [UNKNOWN]: I see, and so they don't have that outlet valve with their family.

48:08 [UNKNOWN]: So you're right, the more that we can do it for our friends, to people that we know, we give them a little place to off-gas some of that pressure. [UNKNOWN]: So it has somewhere to go because if it doesn't go anywhere, it implodes. [UNKNOWN]: We see that too many times. [UNKNOWN]: That is extremely well put.

48:23 [UNKNOWN]: It's very difficult to not think of, and you and I have talked about this, and you don't have the bandwidth for it, but I'm just telling you, I feel like you should generate a school. [UNKNOWN]: school system. [UNKNOWN]: I just think there is a moment of crisis right now that is so in need.

48:40 [UNKNOWN]: And you and I try to do it in the movie. [UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean? [UNKNOWN]: Without being finger-wagon and just irrefutable good advice, irrefutable good, do your homework eat well. [UNKNOWN]: Exercise. [UNKNOWN]: Be respectful. [UNKNOWN]: These aren't red blue issues. [UNKNOWN]: These are irrefutably solid issues that not only will make a better world, you will indeed feel better about yourself and you'll all the while be arming yourself for the inevitable thunder clouds that are coming for you.

49:06 [UNKNOWN]: You can't go. [UNKNOWN]: I want to go from zero to 87 and I don't want any shitty things happen to me in my life. [UNKNOWN]: That is impossible. [UNKNOWN]: There's going to be some terrible terrible things to happen to you so you gotta be prepared for them. [UNKNOWN]: And I just look at what's going on right now [UNKNOWN]: the grave lack of grit and the degree to which things are kind of flying off the rails and how there just needs to be a calibration.

49:28 [UNKNOWN]: And I know you as a human being. [UNKNOWN]: You're a warrior, you're tough, you've got strong arms, you're a judicious practitioner. [UNKNOWN]: Like one of the first times you met, you put me in a, you know, [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, we're naked joke. [UNKNOWN]: Well deserved. [UNKNOWN]: Well deserved.

49:42 [UNKNOWN]: I'm had a comment. [UNKNOWN]: And you know what I mean? [UNKNOWN]: It's just sort of like this idea of a system to raise children to be ready for the world. [UNKNOWN]: Not just for their outward expression, but for their interior experience as well. [UNKNOWN]: And I'm not aware. [UNKNOWN]: of a school system right now that is not too far to one side of the other or doing it in a balanced capacity.

50:04 [UNKNOWN]: And I just think that there should be a balance, it's like a balanced nutrition, there should be a balanced regimen that takes care of so many of these things. [UNKNOWN]: That is cognizant of the importance of physicality, cognizant of nutrition, cognizant of of service. [UNKNOWN]: And it's just not there.

50:23 [UNKNOWN]: And [UNKNOWN]: the degree to which you balance it because, you know, there's a lot of people that worry about like, oh, toxic masculinity, and we got to look out for women and the underserved, I know world for a fact, that's not your boy, Jaco Willing. [UNKNOWN]: Jaco has a heart of gold. [UNKNOWN]: Jaco has an artist spirit.

50:40 [UNKNOWN]: Jaco is a writer, and Jaco knows a whole hell of a lot about machine guns. [UNKNOWN]: They can all be true. [UNKNOWN]: And it's just sort of, I think that that's interesting, and you're a little bit of a unicorn in that regard. [UNKNOWN]: And [UNKNOWN]: You know, because there's military slant schools, there's like hardcore left-laning schools, what about balance, jocca-wheeling balance, you talk about it, you know, would you say episode 563 or where are we, you know what I mean?

51:04 [UNKNOWN]: You've been doing it a long time, doesn't mean you're not competitive, it doesn't mean that you don't have the fire in your belly, but it's healthy, there's grit there, there's drive, and there's a desire to leave it better than you found it. [UNKNOWN]: It's extremely rare, and it seems hard to fabricate, and there's a whole lot of crazy out there.

51:20 [UNKNOWN]: I almost just wish there were just a system of being that we could harness and put out to the world. [UNKNOWN]: Well, we do have the Warrior Kid Books. [UNKNOWN]: We have the Warrior Kid Movie. [UNKNOWN]: I got it. [UNKNOWN]: Ever since the first Warrior Kid Book came out, people have been asking for like, are you gonna do Warrior Kid School?

51:34 [UNKNOWN]: So maybe that's something we do. [UNKNOWN]: And it's, you know, just to circle back, you know, that's one of the pivotal moments, not to spoil or alert the movie, but [UNKNOWN]: Uncle Jake has these, he's got some pressure built up. [UNKNOWN]: And one of the pivotal moments is when Mark says, why don't you tell me what happened?

51:54 [UNKNOWN]: And that is exactly what we're talking about. [UNKNOWN]: No, it's exactly what we're talking about because when you let some pressure out, when you explain to people what's going on, when you write about it, when you talk about it, it is a way to help you formulate a plan to get through it.

52:06 [UNKNOWN]: And that's one of the key components of the movie. [UNKNOWN]: I'm so proud that that moment landed and to you, the credit, you know, we were working out in pre-production the whole time, but that moment really sticks and it's true. [UNKNOWN]: And it's also something that, naturally, at the top of the film, he's not ready to give it away.

52:22 [UNKNOWN]: No, no, no, he's got everything out here, he's given it to the Heisman, he's got it in an arms length, and only through hard work and trust it, he finally feel comfortable enough to share with Mark what he was going through. [UNKNOWN]: at one of the most painful physical positions, imaginable, the grave site of your friend.

52:40 [UNKNOWN]: So, I don't know. [UNKNOWN]: I mean, to you, the credit, I wouldn't know about that world, I... [UNKNOWN]: I... [UNKNOWN]: I have nothing but respect for those who are willing to take up arms and protect what they believe in. [UNKNOWN]: And hopefully we got that more right than wrong with the movie because it's probably the most proud I've ever been to be a part of a film that matters so much.

53:00 [UNKNOWN]: And I look around the world in the spirit of what we're talking about. [UNKNOWN]: And I never want to be like a finger wagon. [UNKNOWN]: You need to just lead by example. [UNKNOWN]: Lead by example. [UNKNOWN]: Again, the things that [UNKNOWN]: constitute the growth in the film are irrefutable and good for you.

53:18 [UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean? [UNKNOWN]: So, going back now, facing your fears, you get through it, you go, who'd you go back to Warner Bros. And once again, we are Marshall, which is about a football team that crashes in a plane and everybody dies. [UNKNOWN]: And you knew, you were going to fill, you found that on location.

53:36 [UNKNOWN]: I don't know if you've filled with on location, the approach to the airport, the ball spot is still on the mountain. [UNKNOWN]: And I knew when I first landed there, I immediately walked. [UNKNOWN]: from the airplane back to the mountain that was on approach was a terribly stormy night that couldn't sit was back when they didn't have great tech to see through the clouds and when I have you only stuffed it into the mountain and that was it.

53:56 [UNKNOWN]: Giant ball spot, I sat up there, I reflected, thought about what I was doing and a woman tapped me on the shoulder and I turned around and she's holding a letterman jacket of her boy, she lost in the flames and she said, tell the movie honestly, don't hide the pain. [UNKNOWN]: the pain defines our town, the pain is who we are and how we rose from the ashes.

54:21 [UNKNOWN]: And they put the football team back together, put the community back to you, I got chills thinking about it right now. [UNKNOWN]: I didn't know she was there. [UNKNOWN]: I thought it went up there by myself, but like they were so excited about the movie to have a chance to share their story that, you know, they came up, they knew, I don't know, the new work coming and somebody walked up there and that's what that was and it was almost impossible.

54:38 [UNKNOWN]: How poetic and beautiful that was and we really tried our hardest and you know your buddies of McConaughey, and you know I think McConaughey will be the first to tell you the same thing to this day. [UNKNOWN]: So yeah What did you know McConaughey before that? [UNKNOWN]: No, not really. [UNKNOWN]: I mean, you know just kind of in Hollywood you see people in the shake hands Like you know an agent party or some gathering, but you don't really know anybody till you get in the trenches and you and you grind You know what I mean?

55:02 [UNKNOWN]: And you know it's a grind. [UNKNOWN]: I mean there aren't a lot of jobs that have a steward of the state [UNKNOWN]: Standing by with a stopwatch. [UNKNOWN]: Okay, tools down. [UNKNOWN]: Stop. [UNKNOWN]: You're all gonna die on the road home. [UNKNOWN]: Like do you need a hotel room or are you all right?

55:14 [UNKNOWN]: Because it's so expensive every day that they, you know, they just have us working 22 hours and then you're 90 minutes from home. [UNKNOWN]: And you go to sleep on the freeway and you team on the guy next to you. [UNKNOWN]: And yeah, it's a grind and that'll build great great strong relationships.

55:29 [UNKNOWN]: And I think you experienced that first time. [UNKNOWN]: I mean, I got to report to everybody. [UNKNOWN]: It's not Jocco's responsibility to be at the movie from what's called call, you know, like, hey, we're gonna start at six tomorrow. [UNKNOWN]: And then rap is usually 12 hours plus however long lunch took from the last person through the lunch lines 30 more minutes.

55:48 [UNKNOWN]: So like you can pretty much bet, if you have a seven-to-clock call, you're gonna rap around eight, then there's a ton of stuff to do after rap, you know, I like to be there every bit of 45 minutes if done in an hour early before call and get back together with the DP, the ADs, everybody. [UNKNOWN]: make sure we're tight because it's every day's $400,500,000.

56:05 [UNKNOWN]: You do think, and Jaco will link for every single day of photography, except if you had to go like give a speech somewhere. [UNKNOWN]: You were there at call, you were there at rap, you were, you had a positive attitude, you were the best partner, and I mean, [UNKNOWN]: I felt good about it because I really like to prep, but people would kid me like, you know, here's this guy with echelon, give motivational speeches and getting everybody fired up, who's standing with his, you know, very formidable arms in this position right behind me, nose breath on the back of my back staring at the monitor.

56:35 [UNKNOWN]: And like, I knew I had to bring my A game or I was going to disappoint my new friend. [UNKNOWN]: And one of the most important things to me was to come through for you. [UNKNOWN]: I remember going down to San Diego to the gym, you know, I duck into [UNKNOWN]: good with all you were just like I don't know all I would seem to let down and not be with it and me and Ben just kind of kept banging the drum to kind of get the confidence and prat came in and we built our community brick by brick and very very honestly and you're being there every day really set the tone because you just [UNKNOWN]: Radiate leadership and lead by example, and that's exactly what a film set needs to listen.

57:10 [UNKNOWN]: Without the violence, a film set has a great many similarities to a military procedure. [UNKNOWN]: As you might imagine, the logistics of feeding, the regime, resting, how we got to do it to be, you know, positioned to be a very best of the whole nine yards. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah. [UNKNOWN]: just you didn't have to do it you did it people out there that listen to your podcast you know like you don't get out of here and get in a Bentley and you know go put your feet and you know you like to kick out the jam so go rock and roll with Metallica and do your thing but like you're all about the word and that's refreshing [UNKNOWN]: you get done with we are Marshall that, you know, great movie, great movie, great one more.

57:50 [UNKNOWN]: Well, and after that comes out, is this one your brother dies? [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, that's another one that's just rough. [UNKNOWN]: It's just my brother had a very strange relationship with cocaine. [UNKNOWN]: He, you know, he was a smart guy. [UNKNOWN]: He was getting a PhD in classical music.

58:07 [UNKNOWN]: and he was always my friend and you know we we never really had like oh I'm not talking my brother Nick they they called him Nick short for nickel so he was just Nick and he was very good surfer and he was friends with all the guys and popular and better look in and you know all this stuff and he always had a strange relationship with cocaine where he would just get like [UNKNOWN]: a huge amount of it and do it for a couple of days.

58:30 [UNKNOWN]: I'm just kind of like lock himself in a room type thing. [UNKNOWN]: They're not doing it for like a month. [UNKNOWN]: Not like the people, you know, you're from San Diego, didn't party in down there and you know, doing what they do. [UNKNOWN]: Not really that kind of thing. [UNKNOWN]: And the whole time, I remember when I was a kid, first of all, I remember being called at 11 or 12 and he was 14, 15 and that's what also turned me off to it.

58:50 [UNKNOWN]: Cause my brother and I were, you know, hitting each other and football pads and we were doing the whole thing and playing sports and racing each other. [UNKNOWN]: then he started drifting into doing too many drugs and it bummed me out to lose my friend. [UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean? [UNKNOWN]: So that was my first, like, I don't really love the drug thing.

59:04 [UNKNOWN]: You know, but anyway, so you had this problem and I knew about it. [UNKNOWN]: My older sister didn't really know about it. [UNKNOWN]: My parents sure said I didn't know about it. [UNKNOWN]: And I know enough about math to know. [UNKNOWN]: You can't do that for a human life. [UNKNOWN]: So you do that for 25 years.

59:16 [UNKNOWN]: Cut two. [UNKNOWN]: I remember, I'm dating a beautiful woman at the time, I'm about to go on this terribly deep pocketed guy, Ron Burkle's private jet to go from LA to New York to go to what's called the Upfronts. [UNKNOWN]: For, you know, I've got like five TV shows going on the air, you know, terminators going to come, you know, I'm really in a really good moment, my phone rings.

59:40 [UNKNOWN]: And it's my nephew, my sister's oldest kid, and he's hyperventilating, he's hysterical, [UNKNOWN]: so what do you do you know your world goes into slow motion I pull the bags out of the car I'm on my way to van eyes to get on it's like a 767 like it's not not a Gulf stream it's like a anyway it's a Burkled Balls art and I'm in a days and I'm driving down to Newport but an hour from LA down in Newport my brothers in Newport I get there it's the most macob scene you could ever imagine the cops are all there but there's no sound but the lights are gone so there's this eerie red and blue light going [UNKNOWN]: Then you see what I never knew was a corner van, which is decidedly undescript, just a white van.

1:00:22 [UNKNOWN]: And I did the math, I'm like, that's the corner van, because my brother's dead body is inside. [UNKNOWN]: And I go inside, and my brother's body was still there. [UNKNOWN]: For whatever police reasons he had moved yet, and he was in the garage dead. [UNKNOWN]: There's a big giant pile of cocaine on the washer and dryer.

1:00:39 [UNKNOWN]: And yeah, it was just one of the most horrible experiences in my life. [UNKNOWN]: And furthermore, maybe this is something you can speak out as a leader of men. [UNKNOWN]: I also couldn't go into my thing about what I need as how I was so worried about my parents, knowing that it was going to put them in the grave, my sister, everybody else.

1:01:00 [UNKNOWN]: I went immediately into, I got to, I got to handle this because, you know, [UNKNOWN]: My understanding in the world of psychology, there is no more antithetical difficult thing to endure than bearing a child. [UNKNOWN]: I can't imagine. [UNKNOWN]: Well, you're in that business, you know what I mean?

1:01:17 [UNKNOWN]: You've had deal with a lot of parents who've had to bury children that were your boys and your, you know, partners and deepest of friends and, you know, brothers and arms. [UNKNOWN]: And my understanding is that it makes sense, you know, I haven't done it, but if you reflect on your children or I flex your back, it's impossible.

1:01:34 [UNKNOWN]: It's impossible. [UNKNOWN]: And I don't think that whole ever fills. [UNKNOWN]: I think you figure out a way to keep living your life, but you don't [UNKNOWN]: Anyway, that was unbelievably brutal. [UNKNOWN]: I don't wish that on anybody and the worst part of it about is certainly what it did to my parents.

1:01:54 [UNKNOWN]: Because I knew I was not one bit surprised. [UNKNOWN]: I was as heartbroken as a human being can be, but I wasn't like, oh echo! [UNKNOWN]: I can't believe it, man. [UNKNOWN]: Zero, I can't believe it. [UNKNOWN]: I'm like, my brother's doing that. [UNKNOWN]: You're gonna, and he had like a major coronary episode as, how could you not?

1:02:12 [UNKNOWN]: He was probably 41 at the time, and that's just what happened. [UNKNOWN]: You can't keep going to that spot and not have something go wrong. [UNKNOWN]: And that's what happened, and yeah, it was just a true, true low point, and just the, [UNKNOWN]: difficulty and the sadness of trying to bring my parents out of that whole a whole they never recovered from and rightfully so and they did well you do the best you can and you keep going but boy uh I don't wish that anybody and I look around at us as parents that is just not something anybody should have to go and they didn't really know about his you know about drug use [UNKNOWN]: They had no idea, but I knew everything, because I was in the rock and roll world, and he was a tertiary part of the rock and roll world, and there were all the guys that were party and doing the thing, and you, everybody, you know, drug addict, you go into a bar where the guy was looking for cocaine, he finds the other people with cocaine, you know what I mean, or whatever the drugs you're looking for.

1:03:07 [UNKNOWN]: They all have an unspoken rhythm, where they can all find what the score is. [UNKNOWN]: And yeah, so I knew it and I was heartbroken and I helped him many times. [UNKNOWN]: I put him in rehab twice. [UNKNOWN]: There's a lot of guilt of could I have done more. [UNKNOWN]: But I think, and I'm sure you've had plenty of people who worked the program on your show and do the thing, you got to be ready to buy into that program.

1:03:26 [UNKNOWN]: It's not gonna work if you got one foot in and one foot out. [UNKNOWN]: It seems to me, you would know a lot more about it. [UNKNOWN]: Oh no, no, it's definitely not gonna work. [UNKNOWN]: And, you know, I had a friend who was a very, very, very wealthy guy. [UNKNOWN]: You know, pretty much unlimited resources and his son was a, you know, was a junkie.

1:03:42 [UNKNOWN]: And he said to me, he said, you know, hey, I kind of just gotten to know him a little bit, met him through some business stuff. [UNKNOWN]: And he said, he pulled me aside and said, hey, you know, I would really love for you to come talk to my son. [UNKNOWN]: My son's like addicted to heroin.

1:03:53 [UNKNOWN]: He's been in a rehab, blah, blah, blah, blah. [UNKNOWN]: I said, yeah, of course, you know, no problem. [UNKNOWN]: You know, he was lived in the Midwest. [UNKNOWN]: And I said, yeah, you know, I'll get out there, you know, let's set something up. [UNKNOWN]: And, you know, through weeks later, the kid OD didn't die in a park.

1:04:06 [UNKNOWN]: And talking to the guy afterward, he told me that he had done everything. [UNKNOWN]: that he could possibly do, except for, like, tough love caught him off, you're done. [UNKNOWN]: Like, that's the only, he did, you know, millions of, at least said literally millions of dollars worth of rehab and cycle hours and all this stuff.

1:04:27 [UNKNOWN]: The one thing he didn't do is say, hey, you're done. [UNKNOWN]: When you're doing drugs, you cannot, you've no more money for me. [UNKNOWN]: No more staying at my house, you go live on the street. [UNKNOWN]: That's what, that's what you're gonna get. [UNKNOWN]: And he never did that, because I mean, and me, I wasn't like, I can't believe you didn't do that.

1:04:44 [UNKNOWN]: No, I can't imagine a parent, I can't imagine what it takes for a parent to get to the point where they go, you know what, you go live in the street, go sleep and possibly OD tonight, or turn tricks, or do whatever the hell you gotta do, but I'm not gonna give you any more money. [UNKNOWN]: That gets, [UNKNOWN]: very difficult to understand what that would take and so that that idea of like what else could you do is a very as you said [UNKNOWN]: Unless someone wants to make that change themselves, that's very, very good.

1:05:14 [UNKNOWN]: But I would have fantasy. [UNKNOWN]: And I see Joko of like, you know, God, my brother just could have gone to Wyoming and worked on a farm up at foreign the morning, shovel shit, feed the chickens, break your back in the sun, eat a square meal, go to bed, wake up, do it again, be away from the environment, away from the influences.

1:05:31 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, that's kind of ideal and hard to do, but sometimes I beat up on myself that I think that could have been [UNKNOWN]: And I don't mean for two weeks, six weeks, every bit of a year, if not five years, don't come off that mountain, change your life and re-rack your worldview. [UNKNOWN]: And just, you know, you're not around it on the farm, you wake up at four in the morning and discipline equals freedom.

1:05:56 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it doesn't work like that. [UNKNOWN]: I don't know. [UNKNOWN]: I had another friend that, in the 70s, took his cousin. [UNKNOWN]: and like abducted him and put him in the cellar and like handcuffed him to like a pole. [UNKNOWN]: To get him to stop and then like once he was once he'd gone through withdrawals, right?

1:06:17 [UNKNOWN]: He'd gone through the withdrawals and then said, okay, we're gonna slowly like slowly reintroduce him to the world and like had him 100% clean and sober and kept tight control over him and the minute that he said, okay, you know, obviously you're good to go. [UNKNOWN]: You have all the gut can't believe.

1:06:31 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you so much for holding on yards. [UNKNOWN]: done. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, the people got to want to make it happen. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I do. [UNKNOWN]: I know, and then, you know, gets into also just as a parent, like, you know, you know, from your kids, I got my three kids. [UNKNOWN]: I mean, am I going to go three for three?

1:06:47 [UNKNOWN]: Am I all three of my kids getting an navigate all those challenges today? [UNKNOWN]: Now you got social media. [UNKNOWN]: Again, the jury's in that is bad for you. [UNKNOWN]: Our movie talks a lot about that in a roundabout way. [UNKNOWN]: Um, [UNKNOWN]: on and on dangerous world but i mean what can we do but keep trying here comes a i can't wait to get into a i with you and with that's all about i'm sure you've had incredible guests that are so insightful about that but um yeah it's a wild world um terminator salvation how'd you get that gig [UNKNOWN]: I went and begged Jim Cameron to give it to me.

1:07:17 [UNKNOWN]: I was lucky enough to get Christian Bale to want to be a part of it. [UNKNOWN]: Chris Nolan's brother, Jonathan, who goes by Jonah Nolan, wrote it for us. [UNKNOWN]: You know, that was during a writer's strike. [UNKNOWN]: So it kind of disrupted the writing flow and our flow. [UNKNOWN]: I think we got a lot right with that movie, but a couple things wrong.

1:07:34 [UNKNOWN]: Like, it's not, we thought Christian Bale, this is on the heels of Batman, he's the most credible guy in the world, you know, Joan and Nolan, brother of Chris Nolan, Sam Rockwell, Artista Sam Rockwell, Sam Worthington, Sam Rockwells and Charles Angels, one of the Academy Awards, Sam Worthington from Avatar, [UNKNOWN]: You know, some, again, it's this Jim Cameron triangle.

1:07:53 [UNKNOWN]: We really tried to put the pieces together, respect the hardcore, and it did really well We've made like, you know, three hundred seventy four million dollars, which back then was a whole lot of money So there's no shame in it, but I wanted it to break the world and it was it was fine You know what I mean?

1:08:07 [UNKNOWN]: Which was extremely painful for me because I wanted to get it right so desperately and I feel like we just missed by an inch [UNKNOWN]: I mean, people don't be like that's suck dude, what's wrong with you when you look at it was it like the way you put it together Well, I think it's the way we finished it.

1:08:23 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, I think everybody really dug the way, you know, Bryce Dallas Howard's in it She's got so much credibility Sam Worthington equal credibility. [UNKNOWN]: Hello, Avatar [UNKNOWN]: Um, and it's just, movie making is extremely difficult. [UNKNOWN]: Nobody sets out to make a bad movie. [UNKNOWN]: Um, look at your favorite filmmakers.

1:08:40 [UNKNOWN]: You don't like all the movies the same. [UNKNOWN]: Do you like every Tarantino movie as much as your favorite Tarantino? [UNKNOWN]: So it is what it is, and that was still a net super positive. [UNKNOWN]: It was awesome, and I like the movie a lot. [UNKNOWN]: And it was a thrill to be a part of that lineage, and now look at the world we're living in.

1:08:54 [UNKNOWN]: Where you got, you know, I forget which robot company it was that has their robots now jumping into the cauldron. [UNKNOWN]: Did you see that this week? [UNKNOWN]: You know, as they're moving on to the 2.0 of the robot, they're getting rid of their old robots. [UNKNOWN]: I have a programming them to on their own jump into the molten metal like the end of Terminator 2.

1:09:11 [UNKNOWN]: It's wild, the world's so wild. [UNKNOWN]: Echo Troll, so Echo is the resident Terminator expert. [UNKNOWN]: Sub back up. [UNKNOWN]: Which is that suit? [UNKNOWN]: How did Echo? [UNKNOWN]: Two degrees. [UNKNOWN]: How did I miss? [UNKNOWN]: No, that's what I want to cause... [UNKNOWN]: you know, especially when you're thinking of it kind of from scratch.

1:09:26 [UNKNOWN]: It's hard to be like, oh, that was done wrong. [UNKNOWN]: But when Terminator Salvation came out after I watched it, I was like, yeah, I mean, I don't get what part do you think you missed? [UNKNOWN]: I think the ending. [UNKNOWN]: We had a very, very dark ending at the studio just wasn't down with going for where he was going to wake up and be the bad guy after the heart exchange.

1:09:48 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, yeah. [UNKNOWN]: And kill everyone. [UNKNOWN]: Go to black. [UNKNOWN]: And it would have been like oxygen out of theater, bummer, you know, but maybe talked about really for eternity You know what I mean? [UNKNOWN]: I've just like it really was a dupe and you know It's which is sort of like that old movie invasion the body snatchers You see the person you think is your friend and then they turn you and do the like mouth open point thing and you're like you realize You lost them to the dark side [UNKNOWN]: And that, that seems like a thing, right?

1:10:14 [UNKNOWN]: And Hollywood, sometimes we're that dark ending could have been some people's opinion would have been better, but just wouldn't have wouldn't have flowed it. [UNKNOWN]: I think people just get nervous. [UNKNOWN]: You've got so many hundreds of millions of dollars in play. [UNKNOWN]: They're scared, right?

1:10:28 [UNKNOWN]: To just go, can we do the dark thing and potentially shit the bed? [UNKNOWN]: That's pretty high stakes. [UNKNOWN]: So it's hard to tell them that they're being ridiculous. [UNKNOWN]: And also you test the movie. [UNKNOWN]: You remember testing our movie? [UNKNOWN]: And it's just, you know, you listen to what the people want.

1:10:41 [UNKNOWN]: And there really is something to be said by that. [UNKNOWN]: Like the three of us want to make a movie great. [UNKNOWN]: You and I'll put some chips together. [UNKNOWN]: We'll make our movie and nobody can tell us what to do. [UNKNOWN]: But if we're going to go take $100 million from, you know, David Ellison or somebody else like that, I think it is arrogant and ridiculous to act like we're only going to do what we want to do.

1:10:58 [UNKNOWN]: We don't care. [UNKNOWN]: When you pay for your movie, you can do whatever you want to do. [UNKNOWN]: And nowadays you really can do that. [UNKNOWN]: You can raise enough movie to make a first-rate film. [UNKNOWN]: and have no compromises. [UNKNOWN]: Distribution is a little tough, but not as tough as it used to be with YouTube and what look at you.

1:11:13 [UNKNOWN]: Look at how self-made you are. [UNKNOWN]: Did some giant media conglomerate come down and pull you out of San Diego and give you a try? [UNKNOWN]: They definitely try. [UNKNOWN]: I know, but you did it on your own and you're better for it. [UNKNOWN]: Same thing with Chaco, fuel, same thing with origin, same thing with you know what you're doing with the warrior kid rollout.

1:11:29 [UNKNOWN]: So, I don't know, it's all, it's all given taking that regard. [UNKNOWN]: And what way did that movie let you down and what made it through you? [UNKNOWN]: It did not let me down, I mean, aside from my personal, like... [UNKNOWN]: if it was more gory, you know, kind of a thing. [UNKNOWN]: But that was just me, but to me, that wasn't something that you could write down on paper and say, that's what's wrong with the movie.

1:11:49 [UNKNOWN]: So it's fairly put. [UNKNOWN]: Because I don't think it was grossly wrong. [UNKNOWN]: I don't think anybody looks like that sucked me. [UNKNOWN]: I went to hell. [UNKNOWN]: It was freaking amazing. [UNKNOWN]: Like to me, that was such a good, especially when it came out. [UNKNOWN]: That was such a good portrayal of the future that we kind of imagined, especially when you go back to Terminator the first one.

1:12:05 [UNKNOWN]: And they just had little flashes of it and stuff, which was well done for the, for 1984. [UNKNOWN]: Shit. [UNKNOWN]: It's insane. [UNKNOWN]: And everything, all that updated technology, film, all these techniques and stuff, the way it presented the future to me was spot-out, even just even like done to the color.

1:12:23 [UNKNOWN]: That done. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, the way the color looked was very, you know, drained and monochromatic and just sort of tried to create this oppressive dirty, difficult, post-pocalyptic world. [UNKNOWN]: But I'll ask you guys, it's hard to make a sequel. [UNKNOWN]: Like I really dug the first Charlie's Angels.

1:12:38 [UNKNOWN]: The second one wasn't as good. [UNKNOWN]: It's just hard. [UNKNOWN]: What's a better sequel in the history of film? [UNKNOWN]: There's probably three or five tops. [UNKNOWN]: I mean, maybe Godfather too. [UNKNOWN]: But Godfather once just is good. [UNKNOWN]: Maybe Aliens, which was Jim Cameron where his Ridley Scott was the first.

1:12:53 [UNKNOWN]: Maybe. [UNKNOWN]: But then people might go, no, Aliens. [UNKNOWN]: Um, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's [UNKNOWN]: So, but Terminator 2 was even better than Terminator 1.

1:13:16 [UNKNOWN]: That's the one where you go, dude. [UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean? [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but as far as like you're concerned, as far as the end of the day when the movie was delivered. [UNKNOWN]: What do you, is there an even anything that you were like, I think that could have been done. [UNKNOWN]: Like, for me, it's singularly focused on the ending and the prospect of having, it didn't work out endings, which would have been haunting and depressing, but maybe super badass.

1:13:41 [UNKNOWN]: And maybe would have resulted in a cult classic and maybe would have just been the demise of the film having any commercial success. [UNKNOWN]: Because everybody made their chips on that movie, which was good, but we thought we were going to break it wide open. [UNKNOWN]: We thought we had, you know, transformers level, juggernaut.

1:13:56 [UNKNOWN]: And, uh, we did well, but we didn't, we didn't break the bank. [UNKNOWN]: So that moved a little additional little tidbit of trivia. [UNKNOWN]: That chocolate kind of knows about, we've talked about it on podcast. [UNKNOWN]: Terminator, uh, salvation has the best trailer. [UNKNOWN]: That trailer is how it landed on me and what inspired my whole thing.

1:14:13 [UNKNOWN]: Wow. [UNKNOWN]: Terminator, something like that. [UNKNOWN]: The day the whole world went away. [UNKNOWN]: Come over this table and just start grappling with you right now, dammit. [UNKNOWN]: So, you know, from a huge fan hit, well done, I know. [UNKNOWN]: That is very kind of you to say my friend.

1:14:27 [UNKNOWN]: That's very kind, I got to let everybody know that Eko really gave all and warrior kid, because he had to, he was grappling, and he was doing his thing, we're sweating, we're in a tight little set, and you know, he's in the background of every shot, so it wasn't like, hey man, the cameras are off you, you can chill, we were constantly grinding, and you killed it, man, you did the best.

1:14:46 [UNKNOWN]: Well, that's where the quote comes from, [UNKNOWN]: And, you know, it was a long day, it was one of those long days, and, you know, the people that are extras, which were you an extra? [UNKNOWN]: Was that pretty much for the background actor? [UNKNOWN]: Background actor, like Echo Charles, they're out there, you know, they're just doing the same thing over and over.

1:15:04 [UNKNOWN]: He's getting thrown, he's doing the thing, he's getting thrown, he's doing the thing, he's getting thrown, he's doing the thing, he's getting thrown, he's doing the thing, he's getting over and over and over, that's what everyone's doing, and, like, randomly, randomly, as we're, you know, the camera stops or something, we're filming something, we cut and you go.

1:15:20 [UNKNOWN]: you go hey guys in the cage this is it's echoing right hey guys in the cage you guys kind of look over you guys thank you so much for providing excellence and legitimacy to this scene [UNKNOWN]: And thank you, boom, all right, we went back to it and I'd know that I saw it. [UNKNOWN]: I looked over at Echo that he gave me the nod, but to the go, I got it.

1:15:41 [UNKNOWN]: Excellence and legitimacy to the scene was brought by Echo Charles. [UNKNOWN]: It was, it was, it was, it's Stone Cold Truth. [UNKNOWN]: What's it like, you see me, you said your expectations so high for Terminator Salvation. [UNKNOWN]: that anything less than atomic blockbuster wasn't good enough.

1:16:01 [UNKNOWN]: Correct. [UNKNOWN]: That's pretty much where you are. [UNKNOWN]: Of course. [UNKNOWN]: But that's the risk you take. [UNKNOWN]: Correct. [UNKNOWN]: If you and I go, hey man, we're going to go do Star Wars. [UNKNOWN]: Anything other than Star Wars, juggernaut, change the world is a disappointment that you're going to take those kicks.

1:16:13 [UNKNOWN]: But I'm dude, maybe I should have been more afraid of taking the kicks. [UNKNOWN]: But that's one thing I'm not afraid of taking kicks. [UNKNOWN]: And I just kind of feel like if you're going to go through hell, [UNKNOWN]: Don't come out empty handed, learn a lesson, deploy it, and try again.

1:16:27 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, not everything is going to work out, and that's one thing that I've never had trouble with, even to the point of, you know, some people think, and I'm, I mean, because, look, I don't have a rich uncle in Hollywood, so for me to abandon going to Med School to say, I'm going to start a record label, seem insane.

1:16:42 [UNKNOWN]: For me to say, the first movie I'm going to do is be a movie of the magnitude and the size and the complexity of a Charlie's Angels movie with Cameron Diaz, Drew Barrymore, [UNKNOWN]: Lucy Lou Bill Murray, Krasem Rockwell, you know, as the first time ever and people go, God, man, were you nervous that first day?

1:16:56 [UNKNOWN]: And I say, not one bit. [UNKNOWN]: I was so ready. [UNKNOWN]: I just, I'd shot enough film in music videos and commercials and knew exactly what I wanted to do. [UNKNOWN]: I feel like the world was ready for the thing I was going to do and nobody else is doing it yet. [UNKNOWN]: And I just, [UNKNOWN]: Couldn't have gotten after it harder and just felt great back to the it's weird mostly having anxiety And I'm worried about the mean nothing.

1:17:19 [UNKNOWN]: I couldn't get there fast enough I knew exactly what to do the guy who was shooting the movie Russell Carbender just won the Academy Award for Titanic Yeah, you know what I mean? [UNKNOWN]: And I was like Russell I want a 8 millimeter on the ground right here We're gonna roll a 48 frames already go.

1:17:32 [UNKNOWN]: I want to shoot it into 16. [UNKNOWN]: I really want that depth of field [UNKNOWN]: And it's just like, everybody knew, you know, like, I knew what I wanted and I just, it became, it was very, very natural for it. [UNKNOWN]: What's shooting it, because you, we didn't really talk about it, but you're doing like high end advertising, it's for Coke and like stuff like that.

1:17:51 [UNKNOWN]: That's kind of a transition from your doing videos, your videos, your music videos, we're doing so well that people in the advertising world said, hey dude, we could use you to do something here. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I mean, at that time, there was the gap was floundering, okay, and there was a guy named Mickey Drexler who was running the gap, my understanding, and he was like, we need a new idea.

1:18:11 [UNKNOWN]: So we all got together and there were several people, but the idea was pitched as led by me and a couple other guys and girls. [UNKNOWN]: of, you know, let's get good-looking healthy, no makeup, boys and girls in khaki pants on a white psych. [UNKNOWN]: A white psych means that stage has no beginning and no ending, it's just kind of white, you just saw it on our stage over here.

1:18:33 [UNKNOWN]: And they're going to dance, you know, they'll do one that's hip-hop, we'll do one that's country, we'll do one that's soul. [UNKNOWN]: and that really reinvigorated the gap so that was a big win for us and we won all the awards that year so that helped but it didn't help enough to say that Sony would be like yeah get that guy to do Charlie's Angels it really took Drew and it took Quentin and it was still begrudging and then all the way through it.

1:18:56 [UNKNOWN]: those guys, you know, literally came down to fire me a couple of times and only drew because she was so I'm getting fired for it. [UNKNOWN]: Oh, I'm getting fired for it. [UNKNOWN]: That was so cool. [UNKNOWN]: Not over budget, not over time. [UNKNOWN]: Why is it so colorful? [UNKNOWN]: Why is everybody singing and dancing?

1:19:10 [UNKNOWN]: Is this drama and my laughing? [UNKNOWN]: What? [UNKNOWN]: But how come when Cameron kicks somebody, she flies through the air and does three kicks in the air before landing the final one? [UNKNOWN]: And I'm like, because it's gonna be bitching. [UNKNOWN]: It's gonna be a original, people will feel respected, it's gonna make you feel a way you've never felt before.

1:19:27 [UNKNOWN]: That's the answer. [UNKNOWN]: And they would cause rasa, rasa. [UNKNOWN]: And they... [UNKNOWN]: just barely not fire me and they'd go back to the mothership you know and then we tested it and uh it worked and it worked and the guy who was the head of physical production tough dude big dude 350 pound dude you know came from like the I Nazi you know docks culture of like his dad was a big guy in Hollywood and the guy's name was Gary Martin [UNKNOWN]: I had to go down and see him, the head of the studio sent me down there and Gary's like, I don't want you to make this movie.

1:19:59 [UNKNOWN]: I don't think this is a movie for a first-time guy. [UNKNOWN]: And if you go one minute over time on any given day, I'm going to come down there and I'm going to yank you by the back of the neck off that set and I'm going to unplug the generator. [UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean? [UNKNOWN]: I said, yes sir.

1:20:12 [UNKNOWN]: And I thought he meant it. [UNKNOWN]: And I never, I shot it was a 100-day film which is long. [UNKNOWN]: And I shot for 100 days without doing one minute [UNKNOWN]: And, you know, I finally went back and I reported to Gary to the whole movie that was no overtakes. [UNKNOWN]: Oh, that was his bullshit, I just wanted to.

1:20:28 [UNKNOWN]: And we became great friends out to that. [UNKNOWN]: But like I took him at his word and just really, you know, had to be focused and not much more ready for the whole thing. [UNKNOWN]: So that was that, and then the TV thing, guys weren't making TV shows who had good luck in features. [UNKNOWN]: But my agent is already a manual, who's very famous guy nowadays and done extremely well.

1:20:49 [UNKNOWN]: And has a lot of fabled stories about fights and things he had to do to land where you ultimately landed. [UNKNOWN]: But he goes, you're going to make a TV show, no, I'm a feature guy, he goes, no, you're going to make a TV show. [UNKNOWN]: And I met a really smart guy from Providence, Rhode Island named Josh Schwartz, who was going to USC and he had the idea for something about Orange County, and we came up with the OC together.

1:21:12 [UNKNOWN]: Because I was that dude, the Seth Cohen character, I mean, Josh is like, hey, I'm a Jewish guy from Providence, Rhode Island going to USC with all the strapping water polo dudes and, you know, no shirt, jacked, six, five, two, fifty, I'm just rippling muscle. [UNKNOWN]: And I go, I was that guy.

1:21:29 [UNKNOWN]: you know like chickening out on the beach while all those very dudes were going surfing when it was pumping with like a south at the point or the wedge was grinding or anything and i'm like i'm not going out so that was what we bonded upon for the point of entry and we had the oc which was also very culturally significant for the years that it ran and then we had the show supernatural which is the most successful science fiction television show in the history of american television ran for how long how long 15 years so what we so what did you have to do with [UNKNOWN]: I created the show with the corresponding showrunners.

1:22:03 [UNKNOWN]: So it was just funny because every time you have a showrunners, a kid, you need like a big, strong person in the community to go. [UNKNOWN]: I will be the guarantor to make this show as great. [UNKNOWN]: And you forget how young I was. [UNKNOWN]: I did Charlie's Angels at 29 years old, a Goraphobic 29 years old, not the best backstop, you know, you could think of.

1:22:21 [UNKNOWN]: But I was the guy that had to take, you know, Eric Krippky was the guy who created supernatural Josh Schwartz was the O.C. [UNKNOWN]: guy. [UNKNOWN]: They're only about 18 months younger than me, but I was regarded as like the heavy, knew the ropes and Hollywood. [UNKNOWN]: They would make sure these kids, you know, didn't screw it up.

1:22:37 [UNKNOWN]: So it was kind of funny and like the lunatics run in the asylum, but it worked very well. [UNKNOWN]: Because again, it's also the arts. [UNKNOWN]: I want to talk about you and how somebody that [UNKNOWN]: has the clarity of thought, and has the proficiency that you've clearly demonstrated in a military capacity, has maintained your artistic soul.

1:22:55 [UNKNOWN]: I don't know if your audience knows the degree to which you are an artist, and you are a writer, you are a proper through and through a writer, you're verbal acuity, you're word command, and then you show up and you act, Jaco, I don't want to hear about it, but you're great in the mood, I'm not winding you up.

1:23:11 [UNKNOWN]: This is editorial, no notes. [UNKNOWN]: You're we'll tell that story, but you're great in the movie. [UNKNOWN]: You know, I know it wasn't a stretch You weren't playing in you know the elephant man. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but like but still dude It was really really clean and really authentic and exactly what we needed at that moment.

1:23:27 [UNKNOWN]: Hey, new guy get over It was like it just it was so authentic. [UNKNOWN]: It's just I've been that kid at that class and you just filled that role But how do you maintain your artistic side while living in a tough world? [UNKNOWN]: I think that's just very natural, I think, and there's for you, not many.

1:23:47 [UNKNOWN]: There's a whole thing. [UNKNOWN]: So, military, what you see on the outside of the military, right? [UNKNOWN]: There's a great book. [UNKNOWN]: It's called The Psychology of Military Incompetence. [UNKNOWN]: It's a great book written by a guy that was World War II, who was a British guy. [UNKNOWN]: He was wounded in World War II, you know, fought hard, who was wounded, got done with the war, went and became a psychologist, and he wrote this book called The Psychology of Military Incompetence.

1:24:12 [UNKNOWN]: And what he figures out in this book is that, well, the way the military looks from the outside, is like, okay, everyone's wearing the same uniform, everyone respects the rank, if I'm in charge, and I give an order, everyone's gonna have to listen to me. [UNKNOWN]: And when people that have an authoritarian mind, [UNKNOWN]: Which, by the way, is a closed mind, which, by the way, is not a creative mind.

1:24:32 [UNKNOWN]: When people see that from the outside, many of those people with that authoritarian closed mind they get attracted to it because they think, oh, if I can put the rank on my collar, I will be the guys in charge and finally everyone will have to listen to me. [UNKNOWN]: That's what's going to happen, and that's exactly what I want.

1:24:47 [UNKNOWN]: So, the military attracts people like that. [UNKNOWN]: Those people generally speaking, [UNKNOWN]: They perform very well in what we call a garrison environment, meaning in the rear, meaning on the parade field, meaning inspecting the barracks, meaning doing uniform inspections, all the cheesy, what they call chicken shit.

1:25:08 [UNKNOWN]: They call it, in the military, they call it stuff chicken shit. [UNKNOWN]: In that world, these authoritarian clothes-minded people, they do very, very well, I see, where they don't do well. [UNKNOWN]: is in combat. [UNKNOWN]: Because in combat, the enemy gets a vote. [UNKNOWN]: The timeline doesn't matter anymore.

1:25:26 [UNKNOWN]: The people that listen to you and obey you without question when you told them, hey, Mcgee, I want you here at 0900 in this uniform. [UNKNOWN]: You do it. [UNKNOWN]: Of course, you're going to do it. [UNKNOWN]: But when I say, make G, I want you to charge that machine gun nest and you might die.

1:25:42 [UNKNOWN]: There's a whole other, make G. I might get back on, hey, I'm not charge that machine gun nest. [UNKNOWN]: So I have to actually learn how to interact with other human beings. [UNKNOWN]: So what you end up with, the military has a stereotype of the leadership being what you see in full metal, the first 45 minutes of full metal jacket.

1:25:57 [UNKNOWN]: I'm going to yell and scream and that's what leadership is like. [UNKNOWN]: that does not work in actual combat, I see. [UNKNOWN]: And so what you really, what they really, the people that do well in combat are people that have a creative mind, people that are interesting, people that can envision things in a different manner, people that listen, people that pay attention, those are the people that do well in combat.

1:26:18 [UNKNOWN]: And so the military is filled with people like that. [UNKNOWN]: The military is filled with people that are highly creative. [UNKNOWN]: And sometimes the people that are highly creative, [UNKNOWN]: Because there's no war going on and so when they get told you don't be at this time This would be this uniform.

1:26:34 [UNKNOWN]: They go up to what the hell are you talking? [UNKNOWN]: Why are we doing that? [UNKNOWN]: It's a waste of time I want to go freaking Metallica's playing tonight, right? [UNKNOWN]: I'm going to go see them Why do I let me get the day off? [UNKNOWN]: They don't they don't fit well sometimes in the garrison situations now.

1:26:46 [UNKNOWN]: I'll tell you I Did well in both like I will I knew that in order to [UNKNOWN]: in order to get where you need to be, you gotta be good in Garrison. [UNKNOWN]: You gotta be able to play that game, and I play that game well, and the political thing and the way that you interact, the way you communicate, the way that you communicate with the troops, is different than the way you communicate with the commanding officer, which is different than the way you communicate with the animals and the generals.

1:27:09 [UNKNOWN]: And because of I very lucky in my career path, I was an enlisted guy, was with the troops, I was one of the boys, and then I got elevated to an officer position and all of a sudden I could still move out of speak their language. [UNKNOWN]: And eventually, it was the Abelzeid, and so now I was communicating with the, [UNKNOWN]: I was sitting in rooms with the four stars, literally the four stars and the secretary defense.

1:27:26 [UNKNOWN]: I'm in the meeting. [UNKNOWN]: I hear how these guys are talking. [UNKNOWN]: And I'm going, okay, I understand how these people are talking. [UNKNOWN]: So I learned how to speak these different languages. [UNKNOWN]: And that's, you know, was very beneficial in my career. [UNKNOWN]: Not so much for my career myself, but when it came time for me to get something for the [UNKNOWN]: I knew how to talk to him.

1:27:46 [UNKNOWN]: And so I could take care of my platoon, I could take care of my task in it very well because I could build good relationships at the chain of command. [UNKNOWN]: And to get to the question that you had, when you look at a target, it is an exercise in creativity. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, that's what it is.

1:28:05 [UNKNOWN]: When you write a concept of operations, it is an exercise in creativity. [UNKNOWN]: When you write someone's evaluation so they can get promoted, [UNKNOWN]: Unexercising creativity, you, you, that's why I studied English. [UNKNOWN]: By the way, I went to college. [UNKNOWN]: I have been in the Navy for...

1:28:21 [UNKNOWN]: I guess 10 years I had been in the Navy for 10 years before I went to college when I went to college I said I'm going to study English. [UNKNOWN]: Why the hell are you going to study English? [UNKNOWN]: Because I had already learned that the most important skill that you can have as an officer is Being able to write well being able to read well being able to speak well.

1:28:39 [UNKNOWN]: So I'm going to study English So I can take this thing and I can do it at a higher level. [UNKNOWN]: So I can take care of my guys more [UNKNOWN]: So everything that you do in the military, if you frame it correctly, is absolutely an exercise in creativity. [UNKNOWN]: So that's the main part of the answer.

1:28:55 [UNKNOWN]: The other part of the answers, I love music, I love movies, I love rock and roll, like that's just, I mean, I play the song of any of you. [UNKNOWN]: I had freaking band practice last night. [UNKNOWN]: We ripped, you know, an hour and a half. [UNKNOWN]: We rip for an hour and a half. [UNKNOWN]: We played four songs.

1:29:09 [UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean? [UNKNOWN]: Every song is like a complete, you know, a journey into wherever. [UNKNOWN]: And we're never going to play those songs again. [UNKNOWN]: That's what's happening. [UNKNOWN]: So I think that's just something that's always been in me, you know, always... [UNKNOWN]: But you're rare, part of your rare.

1:29:24 [UNKNOWN]: Jocco, what is your solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict? [UNKNOWN]: I see, we're going to take the war right now with Iran. [UNKNOWN]: The war if I run, the war of the air will be really conflicted. [UNKNOWN]: Well, yeah, this war with the world, let's listen to it now. [UNKNOWN]: My solution from the current.

1:29:41 [UNKNOWN]: You've inherited what it is today on, what do I say October 10th? [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, you've inherited it. [UNKNOWN]: And now you've got the ball and you're in the White House. [UNKNOWN]: How do you move forward? [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, well, first of all, I say this because you can't speak the way you just spoke and not have all of us excited about you being the secretary of defense or maybe you got to run for governor of California But how how would you manage the war with Iran right here right now?

1:30:05 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, so I think it's [UNKNOWN]: First of all, I would initiate the whole process by getting probably like six days worth of briefings, of course, of things that we don't know. [UNKNOWN]: Right, yes. [UNKNOWN]: There's all these things that we don't know that are shaping the decisions that are getting made.

1:30:26 [UNKNOWN]: There are things that we don't know that we can't know because you're going to burn sources. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, there's information that gets gathered. [UNKNOWN]: So there's a lot of that that gets missed by the, So you can collect the data. [UNKNOWN]: you collect the data. [UNKNOWN]: You understand the score and then what you know one of the things that so it appears to be sort of a modern day siege warfare meaning you know in the old days you got the bad guys in the castle well you don't attack the castle you just surround the castle and they're gonna run out of food and water and that's that appears [UNKNOWN]: me like what will end up happening in Iran will kind of do siege warfare on them eventually they're not going to have the money they're not going to have the food they're not going to they're not going to have the infrastructure anymore and they're just going to kind of not be able to do anything.

1:31:09 [UNKNOWN]: I mean it seems like that's kind of getting to a point where they're right now. [UNKNOWN]: So that's that you know to unfortunately. [UNKNOWN]: We gave them a little bit of leverage, right? [UNKNOWN]: And I don't like to give other people leverage. [UNKNOWN]: I don't like an outcome that I'm going into to be based on what McGee's gonna do.

1:31:29 [UNKNOWN]: I wanted to be based on what I'm gonna do, right? [UNKNOWN]: It's very fair. [UNKNOWN]: I'm gonna do this, and what McGee does, he can do this, he can do that, but that's not the predictor of the outcome that I'm looking for. [UNKNOWN]: I'm only gonna tell you, and I'm only gonna rely on what I am going to do.

1:31:42 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, what you do, you can fight, you can start a system, it doesn't really matter me. [UNKNOWN]: Here's what I'm doing, that's what I'm gonna do, when I'm done with it, I'm done. [UNKNOWN]: There's, you have almost no say in the outcome. [UNKNOWN]: So that's, I like to set things up like that and that's the way we kind of operate.

1:31:56 [UNKNOWN]: Where are you on the deployment of the Lincoln? [UNKNOWN]: As one who would know. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, so I did, I was in the seal teams, but I did three ship board deployments. [UNKNOWN]: And I have a friend that's a Hollywood guy that wrote me a text and he said, I can't believe what's going on in the April on the Abraham Lincoln.

1:32:20 [UNKNOWN]: And I said, yeah, I can't believe that people are surprised by it. [UNKNOWN]: And he was kind of like, well, what do you mean? [UNKNOWN]: Listen, when you're on a ship, ships, they're not cruise ships, right? [UNKNOWN]: They are freaking warships. [UNKNOWN]: And when you're on a warship, you know, when you look at the hierarchy of what the hierarchy of importance of where the focus of taking care of the warship goes, the crew is not at the top of that list.

1:32:47 [UNKNOWN]: The aircraft are at the top of the list. [UNKNOWN]: The bombs are at the top of the list. [UNKNOWN]: The communications gear is at the top of the list. [UNKNOWN]: All those things are what the crew is there to serve. [UNKNOWN]: So if you can either get gas for the planes or a crab and lobster for the troops, the planes are gonna get the gas, that's the way it works.

1:33:08 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, I didn't ship or put it. [UNKNOWN]: I did ship or deployments where we ate chicken patties three meals a day for weeks. [UNKNOWN]: You know, because hey, until that supply ship shows up with some carrots and some lettuce and some apples, hey, we're down with chicken patties. [UNKNOWN]: That's what we're getting.

1:33:23 [UNKNOWN]: That's what we're eating. [UNKNOWN]: Chicken patties for breakfast. [UNKNOWN]: You might have chicken patties with muffins. [UNKNOWN]: For lunch, you might have a chicken patties with bread. [UNKNOWN]: For dinner, you might have chicken patties on a bun. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: Do you see that's what you're getting?

1:33:34 [UNKNOWN]: I understand completely. [UNKNOWN]: You see pictures of the bathrooms on a ship. [UNKNOWN]: They look gross. [UNKNOWN]: They are gross bro, like there's 5,000 people on an aircraft carrier, there's a bunch of people using those heads It's like that's that's they look like shit. [UNKNOWN]: They're nasty and you go in there You do your best to clean them, but you know this thing's been on I have to get how all the Abraham Lincoln is but [UNKNOWN]: When they go and refurbish the Abraham Lincoln, where it goes in a dry dock, they refurbish the mechanism, the warfiting mechanisms on that, and then they declean up the toilets a little bit of that's the way it is.

1:34:08 [UNKNOWN]: So conditions on a worship for the crew are not good. [UNKNOWN]: Yep, they're not good. [UNKNOWN]: That's normal. [UNKNOWN]: And the supply officers, they're doing the best they can to get a new supply ship to come and let's get some steak. [UNKNOWN]: We might be able to get, I mean can you imagine trying to get 5,000 steaks?

1:34:25 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, like it's, it's hard they do it. [UNKNOWN]: They don't know how to have a logistics option. [UNKNOWN]: They do it, but they can't do it all the time, especially in a warfighting capacity. [UNKNOWN]: So when I looked at it, you know, it's hard and it was a long deployment, you know, that sucks by the way.

1:34:41 [UNKNOWN]: All Navy deployment used to be nine months on. [UNKNOWN]: Wow. [UNKNOWN]: Then they became six months. [UNKNOWN]: The Army deploys for a year. [UNKNOWN]: And by the way, the Army also gets extended to 14 months, 16 months. [UNKNOWN]: I mean, I have friends that deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan for 14 months, 15 months.

1:34:57 [UNKNOWN]: Like that's, and that's Army. [UNKNOWN]: That's Army occasionally like a guy in joint special operation. [UNKNOWN]: Somebody like there might be a seal that deployed with an Army in an Army capacity that goes for a year. [UNKNOWN]: But most of the time, the Army in Marine Corps, [UNKNOWN]: do six month deployments.

1:35:11 [UNKNOWN]: So the Abraham Lincoln was gone for a long time. [UNKNOWN]: That sucks, man, sucks for the families. [UNKNOWN]: They're back home. [UNKNOWN]: They're looking at that calendar for five months, and 29 days, they're looking at that calendar, going, dad's going to be home, or mom's going to be home on this day.

1:35:23 [UNKNOWN]: And then they get, uh, actually it's not that day. [UNKNOWN]: Actually, it's another month, another month. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, that sucks. [UNKNOWN]: That sucks. [UNKNOWN]: It's, it's, it's very hard on the family. [UNKNOWN]: But these are, these are war fighters. [UNKNOWN]: These sailors are out there.

1:35:33 [UNKNOWN]: That's what they do. [UNKNOWN]: That's their job. [UNKNOWN]: That's what they do. [UNKNOWN]: I understand. [UNKNOWN]: So do we want our sailors, soldiers, sailors, airmen and marine to have the best living capacity we have so we can't? [UNKNOWN]: Of course we want that. [UNKNOWN]: Are they going to have it when there's a theater war going on?

1:35:48 [UNKNOWN]: Nope, they're not going to have it. [UNKNOWN]: You know my first trip to Iraq, we were eating MREs. [UNKNOWN]: That's what you're eating. [UNKNOWN]: And then eventually they set some stuff up and you can get they hire some locals and they start bringing in some freaking lamb or whatever and like you start to get [UNKNOWN]: Homecooked food, you know, but it takes time.

1:36:04 [UNKNOWN]: So that's, you know, the Abraham Lincoln, they just got back, so have glad that they're back and they fulfilled their mission and got after it. [UNKNOWN]: And did they get the best food? [UNKNOWN]: Nope, did they get, do you have, is it comfortable living on a ship? [UNKNOWN]: Nope, it sucks living on a ship.

1:36:21 [UNKNOWN]: It sucks, if you're thinking about joining the Navy, it's a freaking hard life being on a Navy ship. [UNKNOWN]: It's not, the Navy ship is not there to take care of the crew. [UNKNOWN]: The Navy ship is there to send [UNKNOWN]: to send the munitions into harm's way and that's what it does so that's you know that's what the that's what's going on with the Abraham Lincoln this is so much more interesting than the G last question who is the greatest MMA fighter of all time [UNKNOWN]: Um, I got a couple there, so do you who fade or amalien in you?

1:36:55 [UNKNOWN]: How are you? [UNKNOWN]: Okay, I'm just just a second. [UNKNOWN]: Just a second. [UNKNOWN]: Should I jump over this table and tackle Echo? [UNKNOWN]: You know, fade or his name is always, always there. [UNKNOWN]: Um, he had an incredible run. [UNKNOWN]: He had an incredible run. [UNKNOWN]: You know, soccer robber.

1:37:10 [UNKNOWN]: No GSP. [UNKNOWN]: GSP's great. [UNKNOWN]: You know, I guess we have to determine what we're talking about here. [UNKNOWN]: I think you want to talk about their linear kind of, I'm not mad at Fedor. [UNKNOWN]: I think that's an incredible choice. [UNKNOWN]: What about Hibib? [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, I like Hibib.

1:37:24 [UNKNOWN]: Obviously clearly a dominant, I'm a grappler. [UNKNOWN]: He was a very dominant grappler. [UNKNOWN]: You know, did he have, [UNKNOWN]: What, the striking? [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, the striking, but did he, did he have, he didn't really have like a like a Larry Bird Magic Johnson, he didn't have a magic Johnson, you know what I mean?

1:37:42 [UNKNOWN]: He didn't have someone that was kind of there to question for the next time. [UNKNOWN]: Well, we were hoping it was going to be Connor, but it didn't pan out. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, that's, you know, this goes back to the age-old striking versus grappling, right? [UNKNOWN]: Striking versus grappling.

1:37:56 [UNKNOWN]: That's kind of a, that's kind of a move point. [UNKNOWN]: Like grappling is going to beat striking when you have some purists. [UNKNOWN]: Now, I'm not saying that Connor was a purer striker because he's certainly not, and I'm not saying that Habib was a purer grappler because he's not, but they were so prominent in those two categories that it really did become a striking versus grappler scenario.

1:38:24 [UNKNOWN]: And you had someone that was that much better at grappling, and it's going to go the way it's going to go. [UNKNOWN]: I understand. [UNKNOWN]: If you practice Brazilian jujitsu as a normal human being, what benefits will you see in your life? [UNKNOWN]: You'll see benefits in all aspects of your life.

1:38:40 [UNKNOWN]: I figured. [UNKNOWN]: Yep. [UNKNOWN]: First of all, you're, first of all, you're going to get a workout, right? [UNKNOWN]: You are going to get cardio workout, you're going to get strength workout, you're going to get mobility workout, because you're going to use some muscles that you haven't, you don't really even know are there, because moving in some weird ways, you are going to be, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to, you're [UNKNOWN]: cognitively challenged.

1:39:02 [UNKNOWN]: Because you've got to learn and you've got to learn things. [UNKNOWN]: And you've got to look at them with a creative, from a creative viewpoint. [UNKNOWN]: And that's actually a very interesting point. [UNKNOWN]: So my daughter, Rana, my daughter, Rana did you just as a kid, stopped doing you just to wrestled, and then got back in a jiu-jitsu.

1:39:18 [UNKNOWN]: When she first got back in a jiu-jitsu, this goes into the creative mindset, right? [UNKNOWN]: I was a little worried that when she got back into jujitsu, wrestling is much more linear in its thought, right? [UNKNOWN]: It's just, it's just, there's not as much to do. [UNKNOWN]: You have, there's more rules, more rules, there's more constraints.

1:39:36 [UNKNOWN]: You can't be as creative in wrestling. [UNKNOWN]: Not that wrestling is not creative, but it's less creative than jujitsu. [UNKNOWN]: And I wasn't sure if Rana was going to have that creative [UNKNOWN]: open mind that is required to become great at Jiu Jitsu. [UNKNOWN]: It's required. [UNKNOWN]: You can become a great wrestler with a close mind.

1:39:54 [UNKNOWN]: You don't have to be a great person. [UNKNOWN]: And that no slack to wrestling. [UNKNOWN]: Wrestling is probably the best martial art to have a basin. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, for sure. [UNKNOWN]: Prior to Jiu. [UNKNOWN]: I am an absolute, I am a massive fan of wrestling. [UNKNOWN]: But you can be a close-minded, authoritarian, minded person.

1:40:14 [UNKNOWN]: And you can be a champion. [UNKNOWN]: A world-beater gold, a gold medalist Olympic champion in wrestling. [UNKNOWN]: I can't really get there in Jiu-Jitsu. [UNKNOWN]: You have to have some kind of creative spark that allows you to assess things and change things and modify things, you have to have that for Jiu-Jitsu.

1:40:34 [UNKNOWN]: And so with Rana, I was a little worried. [UNKNOWN]: And then I remember I was washing her one day, and she was doing some stuff, and I hope there it is. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it's gonna be good activity. [UNKNOWN]: Because she has that creativity, and she has the ability to have an open mind and try new things.

1:40:48 [UNKNOWN]: And so when you look at the striker's versus grapplers, [UNKNOWN]: I'll listen, if you go, well, what about chocolate Dell? [UNKNOWN]: He's a striker, no, chocolate Dell was a freaking deep, he was a D2 wrestler, like he was a bad ass wrestler. [UNKNOWN]: And you can, there's a bunch of people like that, that they had a great wrestling background, and then they just, you know, became good strikers and they used a striker.

1:41:12 [UNKNOWN]: But I wouldn't say, you know, Kazushi Saka-Raba, yeah? [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I mean, Saka-Raba, talk about, [UNKNOWN]: I mean, just an incredible story that he wrote with his career and the way the way he was just iconic. [UNKNOWN]: So I think both those guys, um, yeah, there's so many great fighters.

1:41:37 [UNKNOWN]: You know, then you get into the UFC roster, right? [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: And the UFC roster is just phenomenal. [UNKNOWN]: And what's great, I mean, I was very lucky that I had a, [UNKNOWN]: a very close, I was intertwined in that whole, in the great years of the early UFC. [UNKNOWN]: I was totally intertwined in the whole thing.

1:41:53 [UNKNOWN]: So, so many great fighters that, you know, yeah, GSP. [UNKNOWN]: I mean, I was backstage, you know, I was cornering someone, I think it was Corn and Dean Lister, but you know, servants caught in weight together and watching GSP cut weight. [UNKNOWN]: And I'm looking at him going, that's why this guy is a champion.

1:42:08 [UNKNOWN]: You could see, though, just the way he was cutting weight, his professionalism, [UNKNOWN]: his behavior, his attitude, it was, there was no doubt when he was in the room. [UNKNOWN]: You're like, that guy, that guy must be the champion because look at the way he's out. [UNKNOWN]: Just, just a total professional.

1:42:21 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, GSP phenomenal, there's so many great fighters in the UFC. [UNKNOWN]: And the UFC is really, [UNKNOWN]: It really is an incredible rise, you know, it's an incredible sport, and I think that, you know, warrior kid is going to help out. [UNKNOWN]: Oh, yeah. [UNKNOWN]: The whole, there were, we are about to have a generation of, of kids that start training jiu-jitsu, and, and that's what the movie comes out November 25th, the next day of Thanksgiving.

1:42:47 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: So that's the, November 27th, there's going to be lines at the jiu-jitsu academies. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: So they can sign up. [UNKNOWN]: And here's the difference, you know, people, people [UNKNOWN]: When a kid goes to see Warrior Kid and then they roll down to the neighborhood Jjitsu Academy, there's a 97% chance that that academy that they roll into is to a little legit and awesome and there's a awesome Jjitsu instructor there that has experience, that's a square to a guy.

1:43:12 [UNKNOWN]: When karate kid came out and the kid rolled down to the local karate studio. [UNKNOWN]: They were going in there. [UNKNOWN]: It was not cool. [UNKNOWN]: Like karate in that day in age was not real. [UNKNOWN]: It was not real. [UNKNOWN]: It was fake. [UNKNOWN]: It was, you know, it was bullshit.

1:43:29 [UNKNOWN]: And so now when they see the movie and they see what time, by the way, more ties in the movie as well. [UNKNOWN]: Um, wrestling in the sequel, by the way, but but Mojitai's in the movie. [UNKNOWN]: So people are gonna see what they saw in the movie And they're gonna go to a jujitsu academy or mix martial arts academy and they're gonna learn what they saw in the movie Because you didn't learn you didn't go to local crowd studio and learn the with the crane kick the crane you didn't go and learn that You didn't learn wax like you you didn't learn what they showed in the movie, but what we show in the movie Yeah, it's real jujitsu [UNKNOWN]: You're going to learn it and that's why kids are going to go up it's going to be it's going to create a generation or two how did you like working with Chris Pratt?

1:44:10 [UNKNOWN]: That's great. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it was great. [UNKNOWN]: You know, what do you think of him as a performer and as a human being? [UNKNOWN]: So so the first time I met Chris we were [UNKNOWN]: we were going so my buddy Jack Carr wrote the terminalist series and you know I was in sealed team to Jack Carr were buddies and he knows I'm a UFC guy and they were going to watch UFC in Vegas and he goes hey what we're going watch UFC in Vegas we're taking the jet from LA right you want to come up do the do the thing yeah and I'm like yeah cool [UNKNOWN]: And he was, hey, here's going to be other of this guy's going to be here.

1:44:40 [UNKNOWN]: And he's Chris Praskin be there. [UNKNOWN]: And I thought to myself, oh, you know, here we go. [UNKNOWN]: Here's the, here's the big movie Hollywood guy. [UNKNOWN]: And what I thought of Hollywood guys was a team America world police. [UNKNOWN]: That's where I thought Hollywood people were because I didn't know any of them.

1:44:57 [UNKNOWN]: I never met any of them I thought it was like no that thought they were in a muddame and and stuff and I thought that's just Hollywood would just the shallow fake whatever people and I got to go meet this guy He's probably some shallow fake you know arrogant asshole and I roll up and dude He's just awesome like out of the gate.

1:45:15 [UNKNOWN]: He's funny. [UNKNOWN]: He's self-deprecating. [UNKNOWN]: He's he's not he's not like [UNKNOWN]: He's the center of gravity in the room, not because he wants to be, but just because he is. [UNKNOWN]: And when he's not, he doesn't care, like he's just totally cool, totally nice, totally good to go.

1:45:29 [UNKNOWN]: And I was proven completely wrong about what I thought I was meeting. [UNKNOWN]: And so I thought he was awesome. [UNKNOWN]: And then, yeah, we ended up with the whole business relationship, the jockel fuel stuff, the origin stuff, like we ended up doing all this stuff. [UNKNOWN]: And then the movie comes around, and again, you know, now we're like you said.

1:45:45 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, we're on set with the guys for months, right? [UNKNOWN]: You know, 13 hour days, 14 hour days. [UNKNOWN]: It's freaking, either too hot, too cold, it's hot. [UNKNOWN]: The sun's too brighter, it's too dark, whatever the thing is. [UNKNOWN]: And yeah, I mean, he's just an awesome guy.

1:46:00 [UNKNOWN]: He's just an absolutely great person. [UNKNOWN]: An awesome guy, an awesome nice guy. [UNKNOWN]: He cares. [UNKNOWN]: He's always looking to do the right thing. [UNKNOWN]: He treats people, he treats everyone just respectfully. [UNKNOWN]: He's nice, he's funny as hell. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, he's just he's just an awesome guy and the other thing I realized is and I think this has been our our our buddy Ben Everard, you know He's like that's why he's Chris Pratt yeah, you know you're like because you go you know What sort of luck did this guy to get what kind of luck did this person have to get famous and certainly he was lucky [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, because he has an incredible story.

1:46:39 [UNKNOWN]: He's a great guy. [UNKNOWN]: He's got an object poverty that washing 10 years, the whole I years, like I mean, nobody gave it to him. [UNKNOWN]: But he had to go get it. [UNKNOWN]: He got, you know, there's a reason that he got pulled from being a waiter to like go and being a movie. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and there's a reason that from that movie, he got this and he got that and he got another thing because he is a dynamic, funny, charismatic, magnetic person.

1:47:03 [UNKNOWN]: Yes, he is. [UNKNOWN]: And so yeah, we're lucky to have him. [UNKNOWN]: I thought he did a great job. [UNKNOWN]: He did such a great job, and he took it so seriously. [UNKNOWN]: I'm gonna freak out when I see Jude, because he's probably 610. [UNKNOWN]: We saw him the other day. [UNKNOWN]: I haven't seen him in the past.

1:47:15 [UNKNOWN]: Not 610, but he's definitely grown up. [UNKNOWN]: He's grown up. [UNKNOWN]: He's definitely couldn't play the role right now. [UNKNOWN]: Right. [UNKNOWN]: He looks on the far side of it. [UNKNOWN]: He looks too old to play the role right now. [UNKNOWN]: And I guess he could, but he wouldn't be the same.

1:47:27 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, I was looking at pictures of him when we filmed. [UNKNOWN]: He's like, uh, bowsack posted the other day of the picture with him on my shoulders. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and it looks like it looks. [UNKNOWN]: It looks appropriate. [UNKNOWN]: If I put him on my shoulders right now, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go.

1:47:45 [UNKNOWN]: So, yeah, no, he was great. [UNKNOWN]: Linda? [UNKNOWN]: How about her? [UNKNOWN]: And then she blew up in that other thing since we didn't know. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, she's incredible. [UNKNOWN]: She's just, we got lucky with that. [UNKNOWN]: Because no, it's going like that. [UNKNOWN]: I know.

1:47:55 [UNKNOWN]: We really got lightning in the bottom of the screen. [UNKNOWN]: Well, there's a scene that they film. [UNKNOWN]: And man, she's so good and she's crying, you know? [UNKNOWN]: In the scene. [UNKNOWN]: And she's not overcrime, but she's like, how much am I going to, like, [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, she's real.

1:48:10 [UNKNOWN]: She's a beast. [UNKNOWN]: Like whatever she pulls, like, you know, from whatever, however that happens, you're like damn, okay. [UNKNOWN]: That is impressive. [UNKNOWN]: And her and Chris work so good together. [UNKNOWN]: I thought they were perfect. [UNKNOWN]: They were just amazing as brother and sister.

1:48:22 [UNKNOWN]: I love you. [UNKNOWN]: Very good. [UNKNOWN]: Awesome. [UNKNOWN]: Um, okay. [UNKNOWN]: You done interviewing me? [UNKNOWN]: You're more interesting than me. [UNKNOWN]: Your audience knows that. [UNKNOWN]: By the way, that's what I always fantasize about. [UNKNOWN]: It's like, I want to know about Jockel.

1:48:34 [UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean? [UNKNOWN]: I want to know about Jocco. [UNKNOWN]: I want to know about what it was like the first day you went into, you know, you're being in your service career. [UNKNOWN]: I want to know how you define bravery. [UNKNOWN]: I want to know what you're impressed with. [UNKNOWN]: I want to know what you want to change about though.

1:48:46 [UNKNOWN]: But I guess we'll do that in a second episode. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: We could do that in a second episode. [UNKNOWN]: But you know, man, you know me. [UNKNOWN]: I'm very interested in people who make a difference. [UNKNOWN]: I'm interested in people who go for it I like people who take chances.

1:49:00 [UNKNOWN]: I like people that move the needle. [UNKNOWN]: You're one of them and I just I think that that's interesting So I want to make sure that your people on all this episode with this mekji character I want to know about jokka. [UNKNOWN]: I want your jokka on echo nickel [UNKNOWN]: People've heard about it.

1:49:12 [UNKNOWN]: The way they do it. [UNKNOWN]: No. [UNKNOWN]: We can never get out of it. [UNKNOWN]: There's so many hundreds of hours of me talking. [UNKNOWN]: It's kind of ridiculous. [UNKNOWN]: If you think about it. [UNKNOWN]: It's kind of... That's what we're here for. [UNKNOWN]: And there's a lot of people, not some.

1:49:25 [UNKNOWN]: There's some people that they will... [UNKNOWN]: They almost... [UNKNOWN]: There's definitely people that know my books better than me. [UNKNOWN]: I'm not surprised like just like I'm sure, you know, there's people that know some of your movies better than you Yes, some of your shows better than you for sure.

1:49:36 [UNKNOWN]: Oh for sure There's people that know my books that are like I hate you know on page whatever Yeah, you know someone so and I'm like, bro I can barely even remember that so somebody up to ask about like season seven episode 12 of super natural Yeah, you know what I mean? [UNKNOWN]: I need to go back to the source material and freshen up No doubt [UNKNOWN]: So, you got supernatural running in the background all the time.

1:49:59 [UNKNOWN]: Yep, you got O.C. [UNKNOWN]: running in the background. [UNKNOWN]: You got one division sound in music, right? [UNKNOWN]: Yep, you made that right after Charlie's Angels. [UNKNOWN]: I did. [UNKNOWN]: And that gives you like a vehicle to make things happen pretty much. [UNKNOWN]: Is that the way that works?

1:50:10 [UNKNOWN]: That's correct. [UNKNOWN]: And now the big thing I want to do, you and I have been talking about is this, it really just, the green light is the thing in our business. [UNKNOWN]: Who gets to say, yes to that movie, yes to that TV show, yes to that podcast, or podcasts, you can actually do it yourself in a great way, [UNKNOWN]: But I'm trying to, you know, now raise a fund so I can be more specific if you and I want to just go make a movie We did it and a lot to do with warrior kit because people know man.

1:50:34 [UNKNOWN]: I tell the story Go how warrior kid happened guy name jockel willink. [UNKNOWN]: He's got a book Trepidation's about Hollywood not sure young go get her name Ben ever hard goes down and goes Hey, I want to make the book into a movie jockel's like I'm not so sure by the way [UNKNOWN]: Based on the fact that he walked into his kids room one morning, and his kids were doing push-ups, and he's like, what are you guys doing?

1:50:53 [UNKNOWN]: And I hold a little bit and say, we want to be worthy of your kids. [UNKNOWN]: How cool is that? [UNKNOWN]: It's freaking awesome. [UNKNOWN]: Unbelievable. [UNKNOWN]: All right. [UNKNOWN]: So slowly, we earned enough trust with Jaco Willing. [UNKNOWN]: Did he go, all right, let's take a whack at this thing.

1:51:03 [UNKNOWN]: We go to a guy named Will Staples, who's a great writer, and has military connections. [UNKNOWN]: So I think he inspired some confidence on me. [UNKNOWN]: As I said to him, his dad was a pilot in Vietnam. [UNKNOWN]: He was a pilot in Vietnam. [UNKNOWN]: He was a pilot in Vietnam. [UNKNOWN]: After we hire him, he goes, you have my dad as a helopon, and I'm, I go, dude, why don't you tell me that?

1:51:19 [UNKNOWN]: Are you in higher than we are to shut the door, and everybody else is your hired. [UNKNOWN]: Let's go, he's a cute pilot and Vietnam, you're in. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and, you know, then we go, look, will. [UNKNOWN]: You normally get a million dollars. [UNKNOWN]: We'll, you know, give you $250,000.

1:51:33 [UNKNOWN]: The Jocco has the courage to write a check for $250,000, so take a shot. [UNKNOWN]: And then we say, hey, but if we make the movie, we'll give you $2 million. [UNKNOWN]: We do a good smart thing like that. [UNKNOWN]: Um, that happened. [UNKNOWN]: It's all of a sudden we got a draft. [UNKNOWN]: Your relationship with Pratt is thickening with origin, with Jaco Fiel, with the whole thing.

1:51:51 [UNKNOWN]: Plus you're just like mine, it's the whole thing, which I'm going to let's, it's all sort of coalescing beautifully. [UNKNOWN]: I come down to San Diego. [UNKNOWN]: I'm coming from a pure place. [UNKNOWN]: I did my best. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, by the way, so by the time he so Pratt was on, he was in.

1:52:03 [UNKNOWN]: He was in. [UNKNOWN]: And then it was like, okay, now we need a director. [UNKNOWN]: and of the, I don't know if I told you this, but I didn't want to give Pratt a script, because like we were becoming friends. [UNKNOWN]: And I was like, hey, we've been friends for like, you know, six months, I got a script to pitch you.

1:52:21 [UNKNOWN]: It's just like, that's not something I wanted to do, right? [UNKNOWN]: But my team had told his team, you know, while Jaco's working on this movie and like, oh, what's the movie? [UNKNOWN]: And well, he had some kid movie, blah, blah, blah, blah. [UNKNOWN]: They keep my team sent his team a script.

1:52:35 [UNKNOWN]: And when his team read the script, they were like, oh shit, and they gave it to Pratt. [UNKNOWN]: And Pratt, you know, he's now bound by his bed to like flip through the first few pages, read the whole thing and call. [UNKNOWN]: Exactly. [UNKNOWN]: All Julien said we're making. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, he tells that story all the time.

1:52:49 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, exactly. [UNKNOWN]: And he didn't stop. [UNKNOWN]: He usually read a couple pages. [UNKNOWN]: Stop. [UNKNOWN]: You eat a sandwich. [UNKNOWN]: he read the whole thing but what happened with that was we were free it's not like oh you sold the rights to Netflix or Warner Bros and you were on the hook to develop with all their notes you've done this whole thing with the courage to be independent like you've done everything in your life look at you know jok you know look at the podcast look at everything you've built victory mma on and on [UNKNOWN]: All right, so we get to that place where we finally, you know, and then I tricked you and to let me come on board and direct it.

1:53:21 [UNKNOWN]: We got a big movie star, a list movie star. [UNKNOWN]: Now, okay, we got a director, we got a budget, we got a schedule. [UNKNOWN]: Well, you, you, you can, you and Ben drove down to victory MMA. [UNKNOWN]: Of course. [UNKNOWN]: you came into the podcast studio as a matter of fact of course and you sat down and you just like pitched to me why you should be making this movie which was kind of crazy me from a couple different perspectives first of all I was super naive and by the way when I when I paid for the for the screenplay in me in my mind it was like a guarantee like oh yeah well since we're making this movie [UNKNOWN]: naively, I didn't understand that 99.99% of screenplays never get turned to a movie.

1:54:01 [UNKNOWN]: So I was writing a check that I thought was just like money in the bank, right? [UNKNOWN]: And same thing when I'm meeting you, of course, you know, of course, make to this massive Hollywood producer director icon. [UNKNOWN]: Of course, he wants to make warrior kid. [UNKNOWN]: But you came down humble.

1:54:17 [UNKNOWN]: and you'll explain to me that you were the kid. [UNKNOWN]: You're like, I'm just kid. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, this is me. [UNKNOWN]: This is what I went through because the kid in the book, the kid in the movie, he's scared of water, he's scared of these things. [UNKNOWN]: That was you, you pitched me the thing and I was like, this is a freaking solid fit right here, boys.

1:54:33 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, this is solid. [UNKNOWN]: that's what happens and then we go well how do we want to make this movie because we could have maybe set it up at paramount or universal but then you got to get all the notes and you may never get made and you sit on the thing we go to the top guy in in the world of selling movies Glenn Basner to place called film nation he's going to go over to [UNKNOWN]: Cannot at the time it couldn't go on to Toronto could have gone to Berlin, but it was the time of the year where it was the can film festival Which kind of the granddaddy have them all we think we need $35 million to make the movie and just so everyone knows what you do is you sell the overseas All right, you take that 35 million dollars that you sold the overseas rights You put that in your in your pocket to make the movie You spend that money to make the movie and then once you've made the movie for 35 million dollars You sell it to you sell the American rights for whatever and that's all your money.

1:55:20 [UNKNOWN]: You take the [UNKNOWN]: risky, but Chris was willing to take the risk and who makes the most money, you know, he's a big a-less movie star with, you know, Jurassic. [UNKNOWN]: We're old and with, you know, guardians of the galaxy and he's got our field and he's Luigi, yeah, forget it's out of you.

1:55:34 [UNKNOWN]: Okay, so one of the biggest guys out there, okay? [UNKNOWN]: He's gonna take the risk and make it for no money in exchange for the ops because he believes in the project. [UNKNOWN]: I'm going to take a risk and make it for no money because I believe in the ups. [UNKNOWN]: Our guy goes over to France, and we need 35 million dollars, he goes this going great, we're going to get the 35 million dollars, we're going to make our movie.

1:55:51 [UNKNOWN]: And then we'll see if we get lucky and sell the domestic and actually make some money and make a difference in blah, blah, blah. [UNKNOWN]: Then I go out to lunch with my old friend, David Ellison. [UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean to, I remember I met him when he was first landed in town, everybody was like, oh, you know, watch out, this could be a nap-o kid.

1:56:05 [UNKNOWN]: I go, no, this kid is smart, he's going all the way, and now look at him, today I'm forgetting to say, he's going all the way, and he goes, hey, I want that movie. [UNKNOWN]: I go, David, the movie's getting to cost you a lot of money. [UNKNOWN]: I won't embarrass anybody and say how much money.

1:56:18 [UNKNOWN]: But he's shaking, puts his hand across to him, he goes, okay. [UNKNOWN]: And then we make it via skydance and ultimately Apple, who I've been really good partners. [UNKNOWN]: I think the materials are looking good. [UNKNOWN]: I should ask you, you know what I mean? [UNKNOWN]: And it's a wonderful way for a movie to come together as opposed to if you and I go, let's make the Echo Charles movie.

1:56:39 [UNKNOWN]: And I set it up at Netflix. [UNKNOWN]: This is my friends. [UNKNOWN]: God bless Netflix, the biggest company in the world. [UNKNOWN]: But then you're on the bench of development. [UNKNOWN]: Let me go. [UNKNOWN]: We think Echo is so decidedly male. [UNKNOWN]: We wanna female to write the movie and we want that point of view now.

1:56:54 [UNKNOWN]: And then you're on this development train and you have no authority, which is why you've played it so well with Beat Origin, Beat, you know, Jocco Fuel, Beat, you know, the Warrior Kid rollout. [UNKNOWN]: You've controlled your own universe and that you're, [UNKNOWN]: You know, people talk about these kids as creators.

1:57:08 [UNKNOWN]: Here's Jaco Willink is the Trailblazer. [UNKNOWN]: Getting it done with like, have you ever sold any of your IP or anything that you've kept at all in house and you build a big brick by brick? [UNKNOWN]: And then the greatest thing is it results in a more [UNKNOWN]: True on his connection with your audience because they know you're not bullshitting around and trust is everything People trust you, Jaco People trust you.

1:57:30 [UNKNOWN]: They go, oh, if that's good enough for Jaco. [UNKNOWN]: It's good enough for me because I know he's all about Deed There's word and there is deed and your deed backs up your word every time and then just results in Therefore, I can believe in the boot coming coming out of origin. [UNKNOWN]: Wasn't the story you told me that you needed a ghee that was made in America?

1:57:48 [UNKNOWN]: And you're like I couldn't find when there was a guy with a mill and [UNKNOWN]: main or so what is it well he was making is it P Robbers is up in Maine and he's the one that was like I I want to make geese in America, but he lives in Farmington, Maine, right? [UNKNOWN]: Population 42 or whatever and 38 of that account and and so but he's he did it, man.

1:58:07 [UNKNOWN]: He freaking [UNKNOWN]: cut down trees and built a timber frame factory in his yard right and buys these old abandoned looms buys the last when it went into a 500,000 square foot abandoned factory where all the machines all the machines had been shipped overseas except for one and they're sitting there rusted and disrepair and him and his father-in-law and his buddies pulled that thing out brought it back to factory found a guy that knew how to work on it got that thing running and yes that's [UNKNOWN]: how it started.

1:58:40 [UNKNOWN]: Now look up a few years later, he's making geese, but he's not selling a lot of them because he's informing the main and he just, and so I had been telling people, hey, if you need a geese by a from origin, American made, American made, and finally I was actually on a Facebook live and I was somebody asked me, hey, if you worship what you do to geese should I get?

1:59:01 [UNKNOWN]: And I said, you get an American made, get a one from origin, origin, [UNKNOWN]: And I said, by the way, if anyone can get in touch with that guy, Pete Robertson, I've been reaching out to him for a few months now. [UNKNOWN]: Tell him I want to talk to him. [UNKNOWN]: And there was a woman on that car, Sarah Armstrong, who she's a CFO at a big business, and she had all these connections, and she found Pete Robertson called him and said, hey, listen, this guy, Jocco, has a podcast.