David Duchovny on Prince of Pieces, Songwriting, and Independent Film

0:00 [SPEAKER_01]: It's easy to hear your favorite artist on WFPK from wherever you are. [SPEAKER_01]: Listen on your smart speaker, live stream from our website at WFPK.org from Louisville Public Media. [SPEAKER_00]: Hello. [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to another edition of Kyle Meredith with it's the interview series presented by WFPK at WFPK.org Consequence and the Consequence podcast network Thanks making your way here and check it out.

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0:58 [SPEAKER_02]: You get your podcasts from. [SPEAKER_02]: You can subscribe to Kyle Meredith with and again, please do that to rating or review wherever you get the chance. [SPEAKER_02]: We've had some great guests here lately, including David Rizdahl and Lily Sullivan. [SPEAKER_02]: They dropped by to talk about the new movie Soulmate, the third in the Megan Universe.

1:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Jay Shunder Sikar, you know him as one fifth of Broken Lizard and the director and one of the writers behind Super Troopers 3, Phoenix, Guster, Jane Seymour, not only is she starring in the [SPEAKER_02]: but she's invited her old castmates from Dr. Quinn, medicine woman, you know, silly.

1:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Jolando, he's back on the show with her. [SPEAKER_02]: We talked about that, Rupert Grant from Harry Potter, along with Sidie Harla and Hannah Bergholm dropped in to discuss nightborne their new thriller film. [SPEAKER_02]: Common Tim Robbins and the cast of Silo on Apple TV. [SPEAKER_02]: We also hung out with Octavia Spencer and Hannah Weddingham, of course they're starring in writer die.

1:58 [SPEAKER_02]: On Prime, Kirk Viokev and Morby Tory Amos, Jane Kezmarrick, just an example of what you get when you subscribe to the Kyle Meredith with podcast. [SPEAKER_02]: Let's meet Kyle here today, catch it up with David de Covni, he's been on the show plenty. [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, you know, from the ex files, California, Cation, Twin Peaks, just to name a few.

2:18 [SPEAKER_02]: He's also New York Times bestselling novelist. [SPEAKER_02]: He currently has a book of poetry out and he's releasing his fourth album, Prince of Pieces, which we get to dive. [SPEAKER_02]: uh... deep into uh... taking five years to write this this latest set uh... steering away from protest songs bring in some out of the vault along with uh... cliches when they're appropriate to use and and then on the other side of things we're gonna be talking about writing screen plays uh... from bucky fucking dent [SPEAKER_02]: and a new one he wrote a screenplay to an upcoming movie they're finishing it right now called soapbox so we not only wrote it and and co-stars in it but he co-stars in it with his daughter for the very first time so when he hear about that experience as well as being in Jay Duplas's new I'll see you when I see you we'll talk about independent film and getting comedy the the harder routes of getting comedy over the finish line and

3:13 [SPEAKER_02]: And his upcoming tour in Europe with his band, let's get into it as we talk about the album, Prince of Pieces. [SPEAKER_02]: It's Kyle Meredith with David de Covny. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm alright. [SPEAKER_02]: Kind of just back from Europe. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like a scape over there. [SPEAKER_02]: I was laughing in a minute ago at your song, London, because you've always called London.

3:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, no, it's not. [SPEAKER_02]: It's very clear. [SPEAKER_02]: I left the heat wave just in time to get back to Louisville for a little southern summer if so. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not always called in London, isn't it? [SPEAKER_02]: It was liven before I got on though because I just watched your hot ones interview and there's nothing like following that guy he's like he's a machine on those questions.

3:53 [SPEAKER_02]: So he does his research that's for sure and you handled yourself well by the way. [SPEAKER_00]: I I'm not a spicy food guy, but I maybe I got an uneasy batch. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, it's possible that it's possible he went easy on me. [SPEAKER_00]: You've seen people just crumble on that show and yeah, I fully expected that I would.

4:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And it was looking forward to that, but, I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, man, there's always a lot going on. [SPEAKER_02]: It seems like, whether you got the new record with Prince of Peasers, it's fantastic as usual. [SPEAKER_02]: So, back here. [SPEAKER_02]: Congrats on pulling another one over the finish line.

4:29 [SPEAKER_02]: You've been playing these songs for a while, though, right? [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I know some of these songs were on the set list on last year's tour. [SPEAKER_00]: A couple years ago. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it's been, how many years since the last album? [SPEAKER_00]: I've... [SPEAKER_00]: I've...

4:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been that long? [SPEAKER_00]: 2021. [SPEAKER_00]: Probably. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So this represents, you know, in a couple of the songs on this album or even older than that because the like Stan the train was left off to first album. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's all I've been looking with for, you know, a decade.

4:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's the way it goes. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we, I don't write, you know, 100 songs a year. [SPEAKER_00]: I write maybe 12 songs every five years. [SPEAKER_00]: So, [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I've worked shopping them and they come as they come and I try and hold on to them.

5:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, even though, and I think you've talked about this in some of the other interviews too, it's like, it's like that whole representation of who I am in this moment. [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, if it takes five years to write 12 songs, do you find that that still sort of the same thing?

5:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, do you still see that? [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think once you've, I mean, the moment that you've finished the song, even not not recorded it, but the moments that you've finished, you know, kind of, [SPEAKER_00]: the bare bones of it, the melody, the lyrics, it's already gone. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I mean, it's just that that perspective is gone.

5:48 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I don't really worry about whether or not something I wrote. [SPEAKER_00]: Again, let's just say stay on the train 10, 12 years ago. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it has legitimacy in the moment that what it is. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's not, it's never about like, okay, this is this particular moment in time.

6:08 [SPEAKER_00]: You're just hoping that as you're honoring the particular moment of time and the song that you're writing, that that's going to, you know, exfoliate out into this, it's a timelessness, you know, like that's what you want. [SPEAKER_00]: Unless you're writing a protest song or, you know, writing a song that's anti-something in the [SPEAKER_00]: in the newspaper or pro something in the newspaper, then you're tying it to a particular thing.

6:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's rare that those songs will last, I mean, it's like... [SPEAKER_00]: It's hard to think. [SPEAKER_00]: Like from the 60s, there's examples of those songs that last, but I think that's just because they were good songs. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yes, they were great songs, but like Ohio or for what it's worth or I don't know, like give me shelter.

6:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, these are songs that are kind of very much of a moment. [SPEAKER_00]: But, yeah, the great songs that they last, but there's a lot of other songs, you know, that we think were to blast it, but didn't. [SPEAKER_00]: I can remember what they are. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I was just doing that actually with Dylan, because for every, like, blown in the wind, you sort of had, you know, I'm probably the headdy Carol.

7:19 [SPEAKER_02]: That's what keeps wrote it through. [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of some balance of headdy Carol. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, like that one. [SPEAKER_02]: Wames and zinger. [SPEAKER_02]: like not so much a classic in the same way to your points, I guess is what I was getting in. [SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, yeah, you know, that's on has a legitimacy, you know, and it's all right, and it's listenable and all that, but [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually a song I've blown in the wind, is generalized enough to last.

7:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Ohio is really only when I can take it in for what it's worth is generalized. [SPEAKER_00]: Ohio is really the only one. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's connected to the shootings that can't stay. [SPEAKER_00]: that I can think of. [SPEAKER_00]: That's last, you know, that's connected to the specificity on the beyond that, the little moment right there, right?

8:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's true. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's just because it's fucking great. [SPEAKER_00]: Because it's a great song. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that riff and itself. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: So you take a, not, not protest, of course, but you take a song like we're talking about with stay on the train, you know, and that's, that's 10 years ago.

8:20 [SPEAKER_02]: So now that you've lived inside that for this long to whatever degree, like, and you go to record it, [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I guess the the easy question here is like, did it change for you? [SPEAKER_02]: Is it something new now or is it just like, now it's still a great song?

8:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Why not record it? [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I feel like, you know, lyrically, I was always kind of... [SPEAKER_00]: working through certain things, like, I mean, some songs kind of progress narratively, some songs progress kind of as an argument, some songs don't progress, but kind of restate the same thing over and over and stay on the train was kind of surreal and majestic, you know, father-daughter father-son scenes of, you know, hacked-aid cliched scenes of, this is a waving goodbye at a train station [SPEAKER_00]: or traveling on the train.

9:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, it's dealing with cliché moments, which makes it very powerful. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's like, I forget what author it says. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, one cliché boars us, a hundred clichés move us. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so if you pile on the clichés, you'll get to this legitimate kind of feeling.

9:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think they can work and songs a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: so stand a train. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't know, it's not a narrative and it's not an argument. [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of a restating of the same difficult moment, which is the last piece of advice you're giving a child before they go off in a way.

9:46 [SPEAKER_00]: In a way. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just saying, it's just saying, well, literally, it's saying stand a train. [SPEAKER_00]: Don't get off. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, don't get off. [SPEAKER_00]: Like the scenery is going to change. [SPEAKER_00]: Like today is nothing last forever. [SPEAKER_00]: Good or bad.

9:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't go laying on the tracks. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I never said I was consistent. [SPEAKER_02]: And the brief pause to remind you, if you're enjoying the conversation, please do hit that subscribe button again, it helps so much, and we'll be right back right after this.

10:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back. [SPEAKER_01]: It's Kyle Meredith with David de Coveny. [SPEAKER_02]: those cliches, do you find that you allow yourself to go further down that in son writing that you might, when you're writing novel, let's say we're screaming, it's like that's absolutely. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think art forms that work well with cliches, lyrics can really work well.

10:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Movies can work well that way, you know, like we don't, we don't demand kind of [SPEAKER_00]: rigorous originality from our movies or from our songs we want like a commonality we want to feel a history you know people love to be in a movie and recognize another movie you know they like to be in the tradition same with songs I don't think as much with novels or poems they they they want to be [SPEAKER_00]: They want to be exploding with cliches.

11:08 [SPEAKER_02]: So, so I guess that's what I'm asking, like leaning into it is one thing where you're like, maybe I need to lean into it. [SPEAKER_02]: Especially when I go, I guess when you talk about movies even more than songs, like maybe I need to do that where the other part of your brain might try to run from it.

11:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well it's like, it's also away from you to hide my personal business, because I'm reaching out [SPEAKER_00]: For modes of description that are already been used overused in many ways and trying to reinvigorate them with my own experience. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's kind of like the trick of songwriting in a way and I'm moving, making.

11:49 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it can make people feel all comfortable with something new by giving them something that they understand. [SPEAKER_00]: They understand, oh, this is a rom-com. [SPEAKER_00]: I know how that goes. [SPEAKER_00]: This is a harm movie. [SPEAKER_00]: I know how that goes. [SPEAKER_00]: That's why, you know, when you're ever pitching a movie or a television series, people want to know what's the tone because they're terrified that the tone is going to change and the audience is going to be uncomfortable.

12:10 [SPEAKER_00]: That's, you know, it's been same with like a pop song, you know, people don't want a difficult pop song. [SPEAKER_00]: They want to take, they want to go down easy, you know? [SPEAKER_02]: We've got those moments and, and I say that with, you know, I, I love these songs, but I'm thinking in that context, like teacher self feels like one of those moments.

12:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, yeah, like there's a line. [SPEAKER_02]: There's a meditation that we've heard sometimes before. [SPEAKER_02]: Or you've got to find a way to make it work in this Yeah, sing song way. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's, I mean, [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean that's like my approach in that song teacher self.

12:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like I don't even know I don't even know if I believe that you know what's like I was let I was let that to that Lerick by the rhyme, you know like can teach all she can't go to teach yourself how to be a man I don't know if I believe that but it sounds good and I think it could be true And I think that if it's true for somebody who's listening to the song that's cool, that's great, you know [SPEAKER_02]: So at some point, if you've seen it enough times, you're either going to win yourself over or just stop playing that song that'll be like, yeah, it is like that.

13:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And you don't want to, you know, you don't want to be too specifically die-to-actic. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, nobody wants to hear a song, you know, with Jordan Peterson's 12 rules, we're going to hear, you know, like, [SPEAKER_00]: or the 10 commandments. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they I don't know or the seven deadly sins against the catchy enough, you know, it's possible.

13:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Nick can do it. [SPEAKER_00]: Probably. [SPEAKER_00]: That's true. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: I got him over my shoulder. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, while God back there. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: yeah that's because that's not a music to i heard something in your music that i think is always been there but i just heard for the first time as we're talking comparisons and i i i was listening to him possibly tonight and and i hear it in London and and vocally as like i've never considered that you've got a little bit of uh... echo in the bunny men in your voice i don't know that group i can't listen i was when we get off and i listen to the and he's eight men i'm gonna call you and say you bastard how dare you

14:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they were the 80s, uh, British, yeah, a killing moon lips like sugar, some of the 80s. [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, if you don't know, it's not going to make sense, but it works really well, and they're great band. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's, uh, I like, I love like sugar, I know that song.

14:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I like that song. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Something about just a timbre. [SPEAKER_00]: Listen to that. [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, you know, I'll take any comparison with my vocals. [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, thank you. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, this also comes 10 years, I mean, just a year over, but, you know, what, 2015, that was the first album.

14:36 [SPEAKER_02]: That was the first novel. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, as you look back, as I see back on 2015, like, that looks like a really now a pivotal year in your career. [SPEAKER_02]: Is it, does that come across like that for you? [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, I think so, but, you know, we got to realize that anything that came out in 2015, [SPEAKER_00]: for a while, so, but I think it is, I would say from probably from turning 50, you know, which would have been in 2010, I would think that that was probably, you know, just I'm just making this up, but that was really when I started.

15:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I believe it, but it's true. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm starting to look around at other modes of expression, really. [SPEAKER_00]: where I'm kind of a scost in the middle of the californication run, so there's kind of comfort with that. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm probably wanting to do other movies, but I'm also raising my kids, so I'm kind of in I'm at home for the significant part of the day, and I've always told myself that I'm a writer, so I'm maybe starting a write, and I've picked up a guitar in 2010 probably, so like by 2015 I've been [SPEAKER_00]: Newling around for a few years and I'm starting to write songs.

15:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So I would say more like 2010, you know 2015 is the like the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it, the fruit of it

16:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I have some, I have a book of poetry out that's different. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, let's still a book. [SPEAKER_00]: Huh? [SPEAKER_00]: Let's still a book. [SPEAKER_00]: It's still a book. [SPEAKER_00]: It's still a mode of expression for sure, but, um, I am kind of demoning the fact that I haven't, I haven't written a novel for, [SPEAKER_00]: probably five years and I wrote the reservoir.

16:35 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a law. [SPEAKER_00]: It's an invalid I guess, but I just need an idea. [SPEAKER_00]: So if you have an idea from one out at me and I'll get to work. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's when I'm good. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm good when I have an idea. [SPEAKER_02]: Let's think it over to you. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, don't don't say it here out loud because I'm somebody else will take it.

16:51 [SPEAKER_02]: And people call your people, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So what where does then? [SPEAKER_02]: So you know, kind of in that pivot, where does what is soapbox fit into this? [SPEAKER_02]: Because [SPEAKER_02]: is a screenplay that I wrote, so that doesn't, I guess what I'm saying is before we get jumping in it, like that doesn't get the, that doesn't scratch the same creative itch as a novel and a screenplay.

17:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, scratches and itch for sure, because I love making movies. [SPEAKER_00]: I've been acting a long time and directing a while and writing with the idea of, [SPEAKER_00]: putting it on film for a while, you know, since I started with the x-files I'm thinking, oh, I can like, if I write something for this show, they're going to let me put it on if it's good enough.

17:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, those were always, [SPEAKER_00]: ideas that, in retrospect, like, if I have a screenplay idea, usually I could think of it also as a novel, or I could novelize it, which is what I did with a few of the novels where I couldn't make the movie for whatever reason, not being able to raise the funds or whatever, and I was just like, well, I want to tell the story, so I write it as a novel.

18:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And in fact, my publisher kept saying, I don't want one of these movies that you can make. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I want you to just write an novel. [SPEAKER_00]: I said, I don't have that many ideas, you know. [SPEAKER_00]: So, and I actually said to him recently, I said, I would like to write soapboxes and novels.

18:24 [SPEAKER_00]: He was like, I don't want to, I don't want to move into it. [SPEAKER_00]: He would take it if I wrote it. [SPEAKER_00]: So, there's a possibility that I try to write soapboxes and novel at some point. [SPEAKER_00]: It really, I saw it as a movie first, um, and does a scratch in it, it scratches a story telling it, but it doesn't scratch the writer, it's, because, because screenplay writing is, is a bastard of the form.

18:50 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's not really, it's not really where you go to do good writing. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you have to, I mean, I'm really suspect of a screenplay if it's written very well because you can't shoot good writing. [SPEAKER_00]: You have to shoot what's written down, you know, not the writing.

19:07 [SPEAKER_00]: So it was written down and like images narrative, definitely dialogue, dialogue has to be good, but, you know, and structure. [SPEAKER_00]: And you can't shoot structure. [SPEAKER_00]: You just have to shoot scene by scene. [SPEAKER_00]: So, [SPEAKER_00]: That's, like if I want to indulge myself in the joy of writing as opposed to the horror of writing is not having an idea and, you know, are getting stuck in the middle of an idea.

19:35 [SPEAKER_00]: But when you embark on at the joy of writing is just, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: that it's just you. [SPEAKER_00]: You don't need a committee to run it by at this point. [SPEAKER_00]: You're just trying to spin out a story of some kind. [SPEAKER_00]: That's very, very different experience.

19:51 [SPEAKER_00]: It's from screenplay. [SPEAKER_00]: I know I'm going to have to get it to a director producer. [SPEAKER_00]: I know actors are going to get a production design. [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody's going to old man in the sea. [SPEAKER_00]: This is my big fish. [SPEAKER_00]: And by the time I get it back to the land, it's going to be nibbled into just bump or [SPEAKER_00]: what can happen to is the fish gets bigger.

20:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I know that doesn't happen in real life, but you know, if you hire correctly, you hire talented people, they make it better than it was. [SPEAKER_00]: And a screenplay has to leave that space, which is why I say it's not, you don't want to write it too specifically, because you're going to close off like this.

20:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So, [SPEAKER_02]: So it's a different inch. [SPEAKER_02]: I've never tried to write a screenplay. [SPEAKER_02]: I've never had the English. [SPEAKER_02]: I had a friend challenge me once to do it. [SPEAKER_02]: And I set down in about three hours, I wrote a chapter of a short story. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

20:42 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the best there you go. [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't, I failed. [SPEAKER_00]: No, well, that's that could be a first draft of a screenplay. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's legitimate because when I wrote, I wrote Bucky Fucking Dent, as a screenplay. [SPEAKER_00]: Couldn't make it whatever reason, couldn't make it, couldn't make it.

20:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Then I wrote it as a novel. [SPEAKER_00]: really happy with it. [SPEAKER_00]: Get it out there and then I get the money to make it as a movie and then I realized writing the novel was the best kind of an exercise. [SPEAKER_00]: Like if I had, if I had the, if I could give advice to any director out there and say, you go write a novel of the screenplay that you're about to shoot because then you're going to know it inside and now you're going to know all the things that aren't even filmed.

21:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, nobody has the time to do that, but [SPEAKER_00]: That's what happened with that one. [SPEAKER_02]: That's a great, yeah, if they could. [SPEAKER_02]: I wonder how that would really affect, you know. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what when you hear people, we hear actors say, yeah, we're all out of history for my character and stuff like that.

21:41 [SPEAKER_00]: It wouldn't be similar to that. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just kind of, it's the weather. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not, you're never going to, like, really see it or hear it, but it's just like a force field that they might bring in with them. [SPEAKER_02]: And to brief pause to remind you, if you're enjoying the conversation, please do hit that subscribe button again.

22:00 [SPEAKER_02]: It helps us so much and we'll be right back right after this. [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back. [SPEAKER_01]: It's Kyle Meredith with David to Covny. [SPEAKER_02]: So then to hit on soapbox a little bit since we're there. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, so you've written a screenplay, you're acting with your daughter for this, right?

22:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I read that right. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: I was saying I've got a son and and and we've never acted together, but I was thinking about that like I feel like I would have to completely destroy myself to be able to allow that kind of pretend with someone that I'm that close with.

22:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Is that the case or is that I might think it too hard on that's. [SPEAKER_02]: too precious. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: It was certainly profound for me and I'm sure for her. [SPEAKER_00]: We haven't spoken about it in that way, but I'm sure, you know, just the all the levels of kind of demands and trust and fear that go into, um, [SPEAKER_00]: just acting, period like showing up on certain trying to fulfill some kind of a vision.

23:09 [SPEAKER_00]: She's such a terrific actor that I knew she was going to bring, I mean, I knew that she was going to bring amazing stuff to the role. [SPEAKER_00]: But I didn't know that her nerves wouldn't overtake her or this kind of weird situation that I'm putting her in that she's acting officer to add, you know, or wouldn't overtake me.

23:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I didn't know that I wasn't gonna get out there and go fuck, I can't concentrate. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I, this is too, yes, it's wonderful, but it's also, it's a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: So, [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, those first few takes of the first scene on the first day, I was like, yeah, I don't think I was relaxed to took me a little while, took me a couple of hours to, um, she certainly seemed relaxed right away, which was amazing.

23:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but she, she's, I think she's the best thing in the movie, so I'm so proud of her, but, um, [SPEAKER_00]: Not easy. [SPEAKER_00]: Not easy. [SPEAKER_00]: Not easy. [SPEAKER_00]: Like psychodrama to be happening, right? [SPEAKER_02]: And I guess that's what I was getting at. [SPEAKER_02]: Like I, watching my son a few times when he said like short films or something like like I'm still, you know, I feel like a helicopter dad over on the side like, you know, in my mind, like because because I know him, you know, it all is like, I don't know how I do opposite like that.

24:29 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, well, luckily I wasn't directing. [SPEAKER_00]: So I just told myself I'm [SPEAKER_00]: have her relationship with the director and they'll talk about her performance as it's happening, but I'm not going to be like whispering her near and co-director. [SPEAKER_02]: You just need to say the line of hit the mark.

24:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes, yes, yes. [SPEAKER_02]: As it goes, when how far has that long? [SPEAKER_02]: When do we see soapbox? [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we've got to finish it, probably going to lock it in about a month and then [SPEAKER_00]: Then go to festivals and then look to sell it at a festival and get it out in theaters that way.

25:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Cool. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's why I didn't know if it was locked yet or not. [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, it's still not, like it's still, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's really, it's, it's another child that's kind of grown up in front of my eyes, you know, it takes a while to, it is one of those difficult, [SPEAKER_00]: movies to cut because, as I might have mentioned earlier, just like the tone, it's got a, it's got a tone that has to be flexible.

25:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So those movies are the most satisfying, but they're also the toughest, the kind of hit, and they depend a lot on stuff that you're doing posts like music and the rhythm of the editing. [SPEAKER_00]: So we're really in the midst of it right now. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, there's also see when I see you would Jay DePlus and I see one of the festival interviews and you know, maybe it was just a line in an interview, but you said, like, I want to make the type of films that Jay makes.

26:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what I was wondering. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Are you doing that? [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: Not this one. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I feel like a reverse the carouser bucking fucking dead is, is, is, is kind of a movie that JMI make, but, um, when I say I want to make a, well, like, a movie like Jake makes is J makes is, um, you know, a very human, um, seemingly small, but big because of the emotion alley of it.

26:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Those, those really the kinds of movies that, um, [SPEAKER_00]: I got into the business to try to make or to try to do, you know, and those are the kinds of movies that I love to do as an actor. [SPEAKER_00]: So I think the Baltimore Ones was really a nice example of movie like that, you know.

26:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So I just respect what he does, like I guess that's what I was saying. [SPEAKER_02]: This is a ridiculous question. [SPEAKER_02]: I know when I ask this, but are you finding it easier right now with independent film to get it across the finish line to where it's supposed to be because I'm feeling like we're back in one of those the pendulum has swung again, you know, where the where the where it's independence working again, which.

27:14 [SPEAKER_00]: It is because television has kind of contracted into, you know, four, or different places, you know, it's not, you know, the heyday of like a cable television you had. [SPEAKER_00]: You had a, you know, network really trying to make good TV, which they don't seem to be trying that, you know, they've kind of like, [SPEAKER_00]: They've kind of contracted it to, you know, more kind of traditional forms of like law and order and sitcoms.

27:47 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not making ER that's now the pit is over somewhere else, you know, but there's only three other somewhere else is now. [SPEAKER_00]: So there's less. [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas 10 years ago it seemed like, oh, Netflix is going to make everything's fantastic, you know, and now they're not.

28:03 [SPEAKER_00]: So because of that, like I think, [SPEAKER_00]: 10 years ago, ideas that would have maybe seen some light on Netflix or even Amazon or somewhere like that, or HBO, now can it will only get made as independent films. [SPEAKER_00]: So the question becomes, [SPEAKER_00]: Not, it's not so much, it's impossible making a pet at films, but it is very hard to get them out in the theater.

28:33 [SPEAKER_00]: It's very hard to convince theater owners that you're going to sell the popcorn better than the Marvel movie. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you've got see you when I see you or soapbox, I'm saying, I'll fill the theater for you. [SPEAKER_00]: Please let me try. [SPEAKER_00]: But if I'm a theater owner, I'm like, yeah, I'm going to take fantastic force.

28:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very much. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, to your point, yeah, you had the two biggest movies back back of the year, whatever, but with the Odyssey and Spider-Man, but, you know, with who are doing well, of course, you know, with back rooms and obsession. [SPEAKER_00]: I really, I saw, I watched obsession about, I really like back rooms.

29:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's like we're always seems to find its way, but the movies that we're talking about right here, like I'm hopeful that path, you know, like we saw in the 90s and mid 2000s and things like that, like maybe there's a path for that right now back to the theaters, because that might be great, you know, obviously horror is the way to go if you want to fill the seats like in an independent way.

29:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And that makes sense, because I'm not a big hard fan, but when I was a kid, you know, it's more fun to be scared with a bunch of people than just cowering in your living room alone. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I get the communal experience of hard. [SPEAKER_00]: I wish that we still had a sense of the communal experience of comedy, you know, which we seem to have lost a little bit.

29:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, we recover the epic sense, but the Odyssey could be a communal sense of epic. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's nice that the Odyssey is not, you know, no denigration of marble or anything. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's nice that it's another universe. [SPEAKER_00]: See if Agma and Mom gets his own movie, his own spin-off and stuff like that.

30:16 [SPEAKER_00]: But it would be great, you know, if you could fill a theater for a comedy. [SPEAKER_00]: And soapbox is a comedy. [SPEAKER_00]: So that would be nice. [SPEAKER_00]: That would be that's a good idea. [SPEAKER_02]: If you just use the comedy and put a slasher in it in soapbox, then you've got a comedy horror, then you're good.

30:33 [SPEAKER_02]: You're fine. [SPEAKER_00]: That's well, and it likes like the screen movies, right? [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's what they do and they do. [SPEAKER_00]: They do well. [SPEAKER_00]: They do well. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so. [SPEAKER_02]: To say whatever your story is for that movie, do we just need a killer to kind of be in the background the whole time.

30:46 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's your first notes. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm giving you notes. [SPEAKER_02]: Don't let that ever be a thing where I give David the god of the notes of it. [SPEAKER_00]: I'll take notes from anybody. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, man. [SPEAKER_02]: Real quick though that communal thing. [SPEAKER_02]: So we got the album and again, Prince of pieces and everything you do and are you are you finding time to take it back out there again?

31:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, we're going to go on October but to Europe. [SPEAKER_00]: We should be great. [SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait to play. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you mentioned that I have played some of these songs. [SPEAKER_00]: I put it. [SPEAKER_00]: like Prince Peasus is killer live and London I played live and I really like playing that live and you know it's really at this point when I go out because there's now there's four albums there's like almost 50 songs and then you think about covers if you're going to do a couple of covers I really have to pick and choose what songs I want to I want to play at my own and you know how how hard you want to lean into [SPEAKER_00]: like the rock vibe or the ballad vibe or whatever.

31:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I could really do like two different kinds of shows. [SPEAKER_00]: And the question becomes of the challenge becomes like, how do we want to like curate this show? [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we want to come out, you know, he always comes out with a rocker, you know, with that at some point in kind of, it's a little cliche, you know, the whole moves of the concert.

32:07 [SPEAKER_00]: So, kind of figure that out. [SPEAKER_02]: Didn't that the thing that we're talking about of the people's expectations, like we expect the on-core, you know, don't be the band tool who's like, I don't care if you're not clapping. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm coming out to give you an anchor. [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to get an anchor, whether you want or not.

32:27 [SPEAKER_02]: It's the cliches that we sign up for. [SPEAKER_02]: That's what I was saying. [SPEAKER_02]: What's again? [SPEAKER_00]: It's the best on the core that we did was I can't remember the venue, but [SPEAKER_00]: it had no backstage. [SPEAKER_00]: So you kind of had to get to the stage by walking through the audience, but that didn't make sense to like finish our set and then walk through the audience.

32:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So we kind of just finished a set and turned our backs to the audience. [SPEAKER_00]: As if we were left, we played invisible. [SPEAKER_00]: We acted like we're invisible at all claps, they wanted our kind of that we turned around and everyone else was out of. [SPEAKER_02]: We've got a place like that here in Louisville and it has a backstage now it's called The Headliners crash plane in the back.

33:08 [SPEAKER_02]: I remember Sonic Youth playing their way back in the day and they were saying the same thing because you have to walk through the crowd to get in there like it's the most uncomfortable thing like even for a band like that who's you know sort of you know yeah you know it's like it's like you know the the UFC fighters walking through you like it's like you need this separation if we're to do the whole [SPEAKER_02]: you know, dance that we do.

33:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, man. [SPEAKER_00]: I got to care like how to magic. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, I'll have a smoke. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: I hope you're bringing your pyro on this tour. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that would be the first.

33:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I would love, I'd love to have some kind of, uh, [SPEAKER_00]: produced show that would be fun like you know sometimes we get some lights going but it's never we've never like beforehand set out like what's they're I'm sure they're lighting cues but you know I love that visual time is so good but I've never done anything like that no one's stopping you yeah yeah yeah just my imagination or lack of stopping you [SPEAKER_02]: Well, David, it is always seriously a pleasure to talk to you.

34:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Prince of Peas is another great album. [SPEAKER_02]: You could do greatest hits at this point. [SPEAKER_02]: You've got enough songs, so maybe you... Yeah, that'll be in the next one. [SPEAKER_02]: All right, man, I look forward to the films as well. [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for taking the time.

34:24 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, I appreciate it. [SPEAKER_02]: All right, my thanks to David to Coveny. [SPEAKER_02]: The new album is called Prince of Pieces. [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks to you for checking out the episode. [SPEAKER_02]: Do hit that subscribe button before you get out of here. [SPEAKER_02]: To keep up with all the interviews that we put out every single week, Spotify, Apple Podcast, NPR, WFPK.org.

34:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Consequence, YouTube for the video versions anywhere. [SPEAKER_02]: You get your podcasts from. [SPEAKER_02]: You can subscribe to Kyle Mereith with. [SPEAKER_02]: Please do give this series a rating. [SPEAKER_02]: Leave a review. [SPEAKER_02]: where every listing or watching from. [SPEAKER_02]: Now, after that, you can head over to wfpk.org.

34:55 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's where I do a show Monday through Friday. [SPEAKER_02]: You can tune in at 6pm Eastern. [SPEAKER_02]: It's four hours of classic alternative indie rock and Americana. [SPEAKER_02]: You get the best in new music, bonus interviews, lots of music and film news as well. [SPEAKER_02]: One of my recent shows featured some classics and favorites from The Who Jack White, my assharp.

35:15 [SPEAKER_02]: The cranberries, the soft boys, the police, air, counting crows, her mono scootieras, david burn, Toro Emoa, and my interviews with Pearl Jam, William Defoe, Josh Radner, the cast of shrinking U2, Roger Taylor of Queen, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Richard Linklatter, Kevin Smith, just an example of what you hear.

35:36 [SPEAKER_02]: When you tune in tune in, weeknights, [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, consequence has your music and film news. [SPEAKER_02]: You can also find me on any of the social media sites as always at Kyle Meredith. [SPEAKER_02]: Please do like, follow along. [SPEAKER_02]: Say hi while you're at it. [SPEAKER_02]: That does it.

35:53 [SPEAKER_02]: For another edition, I'm Kyle Meredith. [SPEAKER_02]: I'll see you next time. [SPEAKER_01]: consequence podcast network, but it's easy to hear your favorite artist on WFPK from wherever you are. [SPEAKER_01]: Listen on your smart speaker, live stream from our website at WFPK.org from Louisville Public Media.