David Rysdahl & Lily Sullivan on Soulm8te, AI Addiction, and Constructed Femininity

[SPEAKER_00]: It's easy to hear your favorite artist on WFPK from wherever you are. [SPEAKER_00]: Listen on your smart speaker, live stream from our website at WFPK.org from Louisville Public Media. [SPEAKER_01]: and welcome to another edition of Kyle Meredith with. [SPEAKER_01]: It's the interview series presented by WFPK at WFPK.org, Consequence and the Consequence podcast network.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, you can see them in a writer die on Prime. [SPEAKER_01]: We, uh, we talked with Kurt Vile Kevin, more B. Tory Amos. [SPEAKER_01]: Jank has Merrick just an example of what you get when you subscribe to the Kyle Mirth with podcast And that's me Kyle Mirth today talking with Lily Sullivan and David Rizzdoll about the The new uh movie in the Megan universe be the third movie in the Megan universe called soulmate Lily you of course seen an evil dead rise Monolith Lee Kronen's the mummy David Rizzdoll who's been on the show before [SPEAKER_01]: In Fargo season five of Fargo, I believe, as well as no exit in the revival, nine days, just a name of few.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's read all about this movie Soulmates, a man acquires an artificially intelligent android to cope with the loss of his recently deceased wife. [SPEAKER_01]: In an attempt to create a truly sentient partner, he inadvertently turns a harmless love butts into a deadly soulmate. [SPEAKER_01]: David and Lily, we're going to be talking about how the Megan Universe uses horror to explore things like grief and addiction and the ways technology fills emotional voids Lily's going to break down creating an android that that always feels a little bit off [SPEAKER_01]: Drawing from old Hollywood and movement work and the ideas about constructed femininity and and David's going to explain why his character had to be played without judgment so us as the audience could really decide for ourselves.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll also get into filming in Ireland and collaborating with director Kate Dolan, how being screenwriters has changed the way they both approach acting. [SPEAKER_01]: All that [SPEAKER_01]: Hello, how's it going, man? [SPEAKER_03]: Then it says dick. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not too long ago for you, me David.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's good to see you back, and Lily really, really good to meet you too. [SPEAKER_01]: Nice to meet you. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I congratulate you guys on, on soulmates. [SPEAKER_01]: It made it across the finish line, it's here. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, oh, go. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it took its own way, didn't it?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, we love an undone. [SPEAKER_03]: Who doesn't love an undone story? [SPEAKER_01]: You've got it here and I mean that's that's that's what that's this career that's this life You know, you do your work you put it in the hands of the movie gods and eventually it finds the the path But yeah, and it's a film about being replaceable all of us.

[SPEAKER_03]: So you know it's only [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's start there, Lily, actually, I mean, I mean, this is, it is an interesting concept, right? [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're coming in this Megan universe and it could, you could just look at this as, you know, a film about AI and everything, but it goes so much deeper than that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you've got a movie about, about grief, and about loneliness, about desire, and projection, and what did that mean in relation to the actual job? [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, the one thing that was so magical about it when you got the script, it's like obviously that you have the Megan sensibility through it, which I think when you're serving the medicine of what the film's about and, you know, everyone is deeply nauseated and exhausted by AI and it's very much, yeah, the state of relationship that's in our lives now forever.

[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but like so fun to like mix the old with the new, like to use the 90s erotic thriller, like lineage to kind of like channel that through it. [SPEAKER_03]: So it was like in very hand crafted, which was really exciting all the practical effects when you're in a making an AI film that's coming through all of our jobs.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was really refreshing to kind of, it felt retro, it felt, yeah, handcrafted, which was great. [SPEAKER_03]: And then all sorts of like be, you know, a manufactured woman when you [SPEAKER_03]: like old Hollywood tropes and like, you know, feel like a constructed femininity and like, you know, women who are like fueled with desire and dominance, but it's all still very much constructed womanhood on screen.

[SPEAKER_03]: It makes you kind of question women's representation on screen to begin with. [SPEAKER_03]: So for me, there was so many levels. [SPEAKER_03]: And then also just so much fun to make at the same time, you're like, just give me the medicine and lace it with sugar. [SPEAKER_01]: But as you're saying, those levels, it really is interesting, especially when we're sitting with their thoughts after the movie.

[SPEAKER_01]: David, as I mentioned, you and I were recently talking about Alien Earth. [SPEAKER_01]: You're doing these sort of back-to-back, is it [SPEAKER_01]: Does it feel cross-overish, is this familiar territory? [SPEAKER_02]: All of the stuff that I was reading for Alien Earth, I left Alien Earth and then two months later I went to Dublin, Ireland, and to shoot this, and it was, you know, one was about, yeah, but all AI ethics, you know, Arthur's Sylvia is very much a scientist trying and realizing his [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was very surreal and I'm also a writer and I'm writing a show about AI so it's like I find this is like the thing to talk about right now And so like and there's so many different angles in on it and and soulmates Angle which is Addiction for me.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was like this isn't a this is an addiction for David like something that it's like a doctor Who starts taking his own medicine that like a Pain medication and he's any becomes addicted that first text and then that feels [SPEAKER_02]: Enjoy. [SPEAKER_02]: playing chess and starts to be in bed with this, and it's like, holy shit's has been six hours long and I'm still talking to this thing and like, oh God, I want the prototype and then the prototype comes and you're like, I'm in the fountain and now I'm, I'm having sex with this and I'm like enjoying it and now we're in a relationship like holy shit and then at the last, that last look at the end, he likes it.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, he's like, oh man, maybe I want that again. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's what, for me, the movies about, [SPEAKER_02]: We are all warned about AI, but we're all addicted to our phones, addicted to like the algorithms, whether it be like YouTube videos or pornography or social media and for me, that's like, that's what's consuming us and changing us and changing our ways of behaving, connecting as humans and it's a very scary time, but you can get whatever you want.

[SPEAKER_02]: and have it do it for you, and there's no friction. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's already here. [SPEAKER_02]: That's the promise. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: And one, even we always hang the toxic and tunnel bonds between humans and machines, like plays out like any good love story.

[SPEAKER_03]: So it's just like, it was, yeah, love levels of joy. [SPEAKER_01]: A quick pause to say if you dig what you're hearing right now, make sure you hit that subscribe button to get interviews like this. [SPEAKER_01]: St. your way every single week, and we'll be right back right after this. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, come back, it's Kyle Meredith with Lily Sullivan and David Rizdoll.

[SPEAKER_01]: Even that, and maybe, you know, David, you're talking about that too, with the screenwriting and everything, because with all of these things, like, like, how do you capture the moment without it? [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why I'm thinking this, but like, you could maybe because you mentioned 90s and everything, but like, Johnny Nemonic.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the countermeas movies, one of those first movies and the 90s where it was like computers and what you know, but it becomes a little bit comic-booking cartoon and this doesn't exactly go there like you get you capture the moment without it being that's if that been like how how does that work?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think trying to ground it in like David's not special, he's a normal guy, he's a guy, he just had lost like and I think that's sense of [SPEAKER_02]: that it could happen, this is your next door neighbor, this is your brother, this is like, and I think knowing that this is already happening to people, so taking it's enough, seriously enough that we then earn all of the cartoon, like trying to always be like, this is a real, and I think making it with visually practical, always practical effects helps with that, because it's like, these are real people, [SPEAKER_02]: working on this, and so it never feels like it's like shooting into some other, you know, we don't, because we don't want to make, this is already happening, so we don't want to make fun of these people.

[SPEAKER_02]: I knew that audiences are going to judge David, therefore I didn't have to. [SPEAKER_02]: I had to actually not judge him at all and play him as straight as possible because people are going to have their own opinions on it. [SPEAKER_02]: They're going to people are going to fucking hate him.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, some people are, some people are going to love them. [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to feel compassion informed. [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people are going to feel like this guy, why do you just take the robot? [SPEAKER_02]: You know, because we all have different ideas about what the internet is.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so this is, if we play it straight, this is then you're going to, because it's about a topic that we're all experiencing it. [SPEAKER_02]: Now it's there is to talk about and there is to experience it. [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Lily, I mean, I'm going to use that word again, Cartoonie.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, how do you play a robot without doing the robots? [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I mean, I was, I did a lot of work with the movement coach. [SPEAKER_03]: Ruth Lehan was amazing. [SPEAKER_03]: He'd for Irish woman, who introduced me to Jackalcock School for like mass work and so rather than getting fully into the head, it was so nice to like deconstruct human movement and then reconstruct it again.

[SPEAKER_03]: and then the lens of like femininity. [SPEAKER_03]: So it was like clowning what it's like to be a woman. [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, yes, obviously there was a lot of like, how do robots move? [SPEAKER_03]: I was like working my like, a land cheese being like, I need to make this jarring because in order for the audience to judge David and it's like to judge him in a way of like, there's a sadness for him that he could project a life onto this robot that I'm [SPEAKER_03]: like I want you to feel silica and as much as possible.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, but then I also, you know, there's a level of suspense of disbelief that, you know, we, I gave like a creative license that it's like, when are we looking at Sarah through David's imagination and when are we looking at her and like, never really jarring way. [SPEAKER_03]: But it was really nice to do like a [SPEAKER_03]: a past vocally, you know, she starts like bite-sized small little Sarah vocal in the years small and delivered and she's like, well, nothing ever make you happy to him.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was like 1950s, like, you know, sunset Boulevard, like whatever, like, where she's just like, I'm just getting the point A to point B as practical as possible. [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm not now being this, you know, me sack flesh, anything to be like feminine anymore. [SPEAKER_03]: So as yeah, it was really fun to find the fine line between doing the [SPEAKER_03]: and not being, not boring audience, but then I also really just did not want it to be another seamless robot that doesn't know she's a robot.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, like, I want you to, like, it's like, I thought that it's like, we're so far in the future that it's like, oh, wow, she's so flawless. [SPEAKER_03]: I get why David would have thanks for that. [SPEAKER_03]: And for another, it's like, I'm like, how much can I hold onto the, to the silicon, so then you, you know, you think about.

[SPEAKER_03]: the crane on the vulnerability of the human condition when the consumption is more important than the connection. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, and seeing that transformation and that scenes when she's learning, when she's in the mirror, and looking at her face, that's how it goes. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, just watching you on that arc there, like, it's a lot of fun for this video.

[SPEAKER_01]: My favorite day. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that for me, yeah, that for me, like Kate just rolled to she goes I've just been preparing for it like it just since she looks There's something mirror in the same robot and I was like I need to get my like Jim carry out my like Botox face my like facial aerobics.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was like what is all this like what is seduction through like it was it was so fun to look down the barrel And basically Kate was that I'm just gonna let it run that like [SPEAKER_03]: half an hour. [SPEAKER_03]: There was so much stuff that we did that was really fun because we didn't know all the footage was going to be and whatnot.

[SPEAKER_03]: But like for me that was like I was an absolutely taken shit doing that. [SPEAKER_03]: Like it was just like down the barrel, everything it is to like try to be beauty, try to be a woman, and like what playing that processing was just like, it was a joy. [SPEAKER_03]: It was a joy. [SPEAKER_03]: There's a traumatic problem anyway.

[SPEAKER_03]: One thing he's trying. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't say one fun easter egg in that montage is our director Kate Duelin is the one shooting the gun. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh really? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we'll go with each other. [SPEAKER_02]: It's so funny at it. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's so good.

[SPEAKER_01]: A quick pause to say if you dig what you're hearing right now, make sure you hit that subscribe button to get interviews like this, sent your way every single week, and we'll be right back right after this. [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back, it's Kyle Meredith with Lily Sullivan and David Rizzdoll.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Kate, I mean, you guys are shooting in Ireland. [SPEAKER_01]: And Kate's, you know, I mean, you know, from the area. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, does that change the atmosphere on the sets? [SPEAKER_01]: Being sort of like the hometown thing? [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's like half the reason why I signed up with the job because of Kate sensibility in her her nature and the Irish sense of humour and like if you're going to take on a job like this which could be such a mind-bending experience you're like it she just [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, she is through that fairly free deal later, which was just really, yeah, but it was a special time.

[SPEAKER_03]: And yet the crew were amazing, everyone's just like, had each other's backs. [SPEAKER_03]: And you didn't feel like you're wasting your time away from your loved ones. [SPEAKER_03]: You were just like, falling in love with lots of new people. [SPEAKER_02]: And they're so damn funny. [SPEAKER_02]: Like the Irish, like, they're all going to grow.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's like an oppressive, you know, a lot of rain, it's in the winter, you know? [SPEAKER_02]: And the Irish just can turn all of that into a jolly good time. [SPEAKER_02]: And also, yeah, we would drink a lot of beer. [SPEAKER_02]: I think we had, so I'd more like one of this. [SPEAKER_02]: She dropped and I've drank an any job effort.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the comedy is in the 501s of the Irish, as they say. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I feel like I don't know, maybe it's perception, but there's something going on with a genre and that area, like there's, you know, maybe that maybe it's the tax credit. [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe it doesn't have to be over that, but yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, I would say it's the perfect storm as the two. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's great cruise for sure. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, was it art more? [SPEAKER_01]: Was that what's, yeah, because that's like long filmmaking history right there. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you guys like carry that in when you go in with you or if you have to put that, you know, if you get the geek out about that stuff.

[SPEAKER_03]: Always kicking out if you stop making out the hell you're doing it. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm always pinching myself and like why I get to do this damn thing. [SPEAKER_02]: I always feel that way, so yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, stop making it. [SPEAKER_02]: The moment we stop kicking out, I think the moment you start to like, you make you got to do something else to your life, you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, great place to do it. [SPEAKER_01]: I know I only got a minute here. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, David, I'll wrap up, you know, just talking about the screenwriting thing. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think both of you all, I mean, mess with screenwriting. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, do you notice that in a script?

[SPEAKER_01]: what you might not have recognized before because you kind of bring that part of you in on it. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, or do you just go like this is my job on the actor, shut that part of me off? [SPEAKER_02]: You mean like when I come as that, do I think about as a writer? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, definitely.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think they always, they feed off of each other. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think I've become a better actor, the more I write, and a better writer, the more I act. [SPEAKER_02]: And you get to see how [SPEAKER_02]: When you're writing all day, you're like, well, and then you see, you get to go act in something, you're like, oh, I see what I was trying to do in my own script, didn't work over here.

[SPEAKER_02]: And now I can come with some more knowledge about this or as an actor, I'm like, all right, so why is this scene in the movie? [SPEAKER_02]: Like, is it, if I was writing this scene, why is it here and what's the most interesting? [SPEAKER_02]: way to have this arc be done, so you're constantly thinking, and also as actors, you shoot out of rhythm all the time, which if you think of as a writer, like Lily had a shoot all of that first karaoke scene the first day, and if you're not an actor who's thinking in arcs, or as a writer in some way, you're going to be lost because she has to put that in the middle of the movie and then decide how to put that puzzle together, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: That was a great amount of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was a good song choice on that one. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, it was, I loved it. [SPEAKER_01]: I love this movie. [SPEAKER_01]: I love watching your all's chemistry and everything and it's so good and it's great to talk to you both about it. [SPEAKER_01]: So appreciate your time. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Kyle.

[SPEAKER_03]: Appreciate your time. [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks, Kyle. [SPEAKER_01]: My thanks. [SPEAKER_01]: David Rizdall, Lily Sullivan soulmate is out now. [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks to you for checking out the episode. [SPEAKER_01]: Hit that subscribe button before you get out of here to keep up with all the interviews that I put out every single week at Spotify, Apple podcast, NPR, WFPK.org, [SPEAKER_01]: YouTube for the video versions anywhere you get your podcast from you can subscribe to Kyle Manith with please Do give this series a rating leave a review wherever you're listening or watching from after that You can head over to wfpk.org That's right you will show Monday through Friday starting at 6 p.m. Eastern

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David Rysdahl & Lily Sullivan on Soulm8te, AI Addiction, and Constructed Femininity

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