Felicity Jones & Kerry Condon on Train Dreams, Surreal Storytelling, and Learning to Skin a Goat

0:00 [SPEAKER_00]: It's easy to hear your favorite artist on WFPK from wherever you are. [SPEAKER_00]: Listen on your smart speaker, live stream from our website at WFPK.org from Louisville Public Media. [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, welcome to another edition of Kyle Meredith with it's the interview series presented by WFPK at WFPK.org consequence and the consequence podcast network.

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0:55 [SPEAKER_02]: And please do give this series a rating and a review where ever you're listening from. [SPEAKER_02]: We've had some great guests drop in bio, just spoke with Abe Sylvia. [SPEAKER_02]: Abe is the showrunner and writer behind Palm Royale with Kristen Wig on Apple TV Plus. [SPEAKER_02]: Pearson Fodale was here.

1:12 [SPEAKER_02]: You've seen him in a merry little ex-miss. [SPEAKER_02]: the wrong Paris. [SPEAKER_02]: He's going to be in the last Mrs. Parish. [SPEAKER_02]: The new Robert Zemeckas movie with JLo next year. [SPEAKER_02]: We talked about that as well. [SPEAKER_02]: Audrey Nuna was here. [SPEAKER_02]: She is one of the voices on K-pop demon hunters, Penelope Ann Miller and Erica Christensen talked about the movie after all Florence Welch lead singer of Florence and the machine has a new album called Everybody's Scream.

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1:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Just an example of what you get when you subscribe to the Kyle Meredith with podcast. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's me. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Kyle Meredith today. [SPEAKER_02]: We are talking with two incredible actresses, Hollywood legends, Felicity Jones, and Carrie Condon. [SPEAKER_02]: Felicity, of course, the theory of everything, the brutalist in Fernow, Rogue One, a star war story.

2:20 [SPEAKER_02]: And Carrie Condon, you've seen her lately in F1, the band cheese of Anna Sharon. [SPEAKER_02]: She was in Better Call Saul. [SPEAKER_02]: She is the voice of Friday on the Avengers film series. [SPEAKER_02]: Together, they star alongside Joel Ederton in the adaptation of Dennis Johnson's novella called train dreams that's out now on Netflix.

2:42 [SPEAKER_02]: It is an incredible movie. [SPEAKER_02]: Just [SPEAKER_02]: beautiful. [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to talk about the dreamlike adaptation that they've given it. [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, Felicity and Carrie will get into how the movie's real memory drift style even changed the way they approached the work.

2:57 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk about the balance between tight scripting and spontaneous moments. [SPEAKER_02]: And what it was like shooting in the Pacific Northwest with Joel, Felicity is also going to dig into learning unexpected frontier skills like shooting a rifle and skinning a goat. [SPEAKER_02]: While Kerry will talk about bonding with director Clint Bentley over horses and the film's quiet emotional power will also touch on Bryce Desner's gorgeous score, Nick Caves, closing song, and why stories like this still matter in the increasingly cut-throat film world.

3:33 [SPEAKER_02]: All that a more we are talking, train dreams, one of my favorite movies of the entire year. [SPEAKER_02]: It's Kyle Meredith with Felicity Jones and Kerry Condon. [SPEAKER_05]: Hi. [SPEAKER_02]: Pleasure to see me at your booth. [SPEAKER_02]: And congratulate you on just one of the most beautiful films I've ever seen in my life.

3:51 [SPEAKER_05]: Wow, amazing. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's not a high-parably, I guess. [SPEAKER_02]: I got it and it was like the last thing I watched before I went to bed. [SPEAKER_02]: And then I woke up the next morning and immediately watched it again, and it's just an incredible... No, great.

4:07 [SPEAKER_02]: It's such an interesting type of storytelling. [SPEAKER_02]: I was trying to tell someone, explain to someone, I think my reference is, I said, it's sort of like this surreal type of all the pretty horses in this character driven big fish put together in just a bit of a magical way to tell it.

4:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Does that, does the type of storytelling affect the job? [SPEAKER_02]: Like this doesn't feel like a hit your marks say your line kind of a movie. [SPEAKER_05]: No, I think the film, it needed spontaneity and it needed, I would imagine you'd want the actors to be kind of relaxed and spontaneous and just sort of trying to catch a life.

4:52 [SPEAKER_05]: So everything, I mean, it felt everything was to the purpose of making it as easy for us as possible. [SPEAKER_05]: You know, as minimum people on set, it was usually just Clinton, Adolfo and the actors. [SPEAKER_05]: So everything was, as you say, was in the service of helping the performances.

5:14 [SPEAKER_02]: are you all the the type of actors like when you get because you're talking a little bit about that that the looseness and you know the the ability to improv like you see the holes in a scene right is that excitement or anxiety because I know some people like they they want to know what to do every time but but when we're seeing these scenes that are very much as life lived like I don't know what it was like but it looks like the direction [SPEAKER_04]: What could be more of you because part of me was like, there wasn't holes in any of the scenes.

5:49 [SPEAKER_04]: It was so well written. [SPEAKER_04]: It was, it was perfect, the script actually. [SPEAKER_04]: It was pretty close to perfect. [SPEAKER_04]: So, I can't speak for me about that improv sort of thing. [SPEAKER_04]: That would be more maybe you and the baby and stuff. [SPEAKER_04]: But it would, the scenes were pretty well written.

6:06 [SPEAKER_05]: They were, yeah, they were pretty, [SPEAKER_05]: tight anything with dialogue, the improvisation sort of came from just getting some of those extra domestic moments and more of a texture of their family life, but yeah, I mean sometimes it is literally like, go and do something over there in the grass, so there's a lot of chat about chickens, we kept going and feet, I kept feeding chickens and you know, and [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if that made it in the film, when we did some digging in the vegetable patch and watering.

6:43 [SPEAKER_05]: But those little moments were very much dependent on the light and if there was really beautiful light in the sun's going down, then Clinton and Adolfo would go, quick guys, go, go, let's just get something and then you know they could use that in the edit and find a moment for it if it was right.

6:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't imagine acting with chickens. [SPEAKER_02]: I've grown up around chickens on farms and things are nuts. [SPEAKER_05]: They do that one thing, yeah, very independent. [SPEAKER_02]: They're very in a bit. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, then, you know, and Kerry, we're talking about that, how tight the script is.

7:15 [SPEAKER_02]: So, like, then how important is the source material? [SPEAKER_02]: Because this all comes from a book. [SPEAKER_02]: This a book that a lot of people hold very dear to them. [SPEAKER_02]: This is some people's all-time favorite book, you know? [SPEAKER_02]: Like, like, for you, like, how important is that source material?

7:31 [SPEAKER_02]: If at all. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and sometimes I do think, you know, it's some books. [SPEAKER_04]: You're like, oh, don't make it into a movie. [SPEAKER_04]: It's permed, it's just is a book. [SPEAKER_04]: And Clint kind of feels the same about that. [SPEAKER_04]: We spoke about that, about not every book should be a movie.

7:48 [SPEAKER_04]: But this script felt totally perfect as a script, but also then it was kind of shot more in ways of like memories. [SPEAKER_04]: know like there's it's flickers of things that you see and they spoke about the edges in one of the Q&A's and and the editor was talking about the pacing of it.

8:08 [SPEAKER_04]: It was to feel like breathing. [SPEAKER_04]: So there was loads of like other art forms that made this movie the way they you know other scales that added to it on top of the script that made this movie that you wouldn't get in the book. [SPEAKER_04]: Like the music in this movie [SPEAKER_04]: is so beautiful and adds another layer to it.

8:27 [SPEAKER_04]: So all these things make it its own thing, separate to the book, the novella. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Bryce has, Bryce Desner's score. [SPEAKER_02]: It's, it hit me the second time I was watching it, that it's nearly always there. [SPEAKER_02]: like there's very few times when it's not in just how that drives the movie forward, you know, even when it could be sitting still, I guess, um, just to echo what you said, and we'll be right back right after this.

8:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back, it's Kyle, Meredith with Felicity Jones and Carrie Condon. [SPEAKER_02]: you know and carry because I've also heard you say like you just really wanted to be in this movie and and I think I hear that line sometimes you know like you really want to be in a movie but how often does that really work out where you can be like anything just put me somewhere I'll I'll do coffee you know it's you know [SPEAKER_04]: It worked, it looked like it worked out in terms of like scheduling, you know, obviously, that's an issue, you know, boss, but then just this part was so well written, my part and it was it like I loved that it was, um, [SPEAKER_04]: that she didn't have her own hands with rapper.

9:38 [SPEAKER_04]: And I love that it was kind of doubts what it was. [SPEAKER_04]: It was just a small part. [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_04]: I just never want to stop doing small parts and engraving things. [SPEAKER_05]: The story, when the story is really good and the film make is really good, then you want to be a part of it in some way.

9:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, even when you think about what, you know, how cutthroat the environment is right now, with movie making, the fact that you can still put, I don't want to call it a little movie. [SPEAKER_02]: It feels like an indie movie, you know, in a lot of ways. [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm thinking like, what's the line?

10:13 [SPEAKER_02]: It's impossible to make a movie, right? [SPEAKER_02]: It's impossible to get a movie done. [SPEAKER_02]: The fact that these can still exist. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't know, I guess it says a lot about, [SPEAKER_02]: the belief. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think you have to really, you have to really care about the story that you're telling, as you say, you know, it can be, there can be a lot of obstacles.

10:34 [SPEAKER_05]: So you really feel that the stories that get out, and now are really someone somewhere really wants to tell them. [SPEAKER_02]: It was also thinking about the things you can learn off of movies, the new tools you get, because there's a moment where you're with a rifle, you know, I'm guessing deer hunting.

10:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Like how are you with the rifle? [SPEAKER_02]: Had you done that before? [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I had, I done it in a film, years ago called True Story, so I'd had a little bit of experience, but I actually did need to remind myself again, so there was an amazing pop sky on the film, and he was actually ex-military, and I just, whenever I had any time off, I'd just go to the pop-pop store, and I would just keep practicing and practicing and practicing it.

11:21 [SPEAKER_05]: Because with things like that, like little prop things, just I find I just have to keep doing it whenever I have a moment so that when I'm actually doing it on camera, you know, you don't want to pick it up, but it just looks so bad, so I just have to make it second nature until. [SPEAKER_05]: So it becomes a little bit of a tick until I just get it completely smooth.

11:42 [SPEAKER_02]: You think it'd be decent in the actual, like if you go deer hunting, could you? [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, I haven't put it to test yet, but, you know, I'd be like, no, don't shoot that please, I don't know exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: But wait, did I read and I hope this is true and untrue at the same time that you learn to skin a goat though?

12:07 [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, that is true, yes, it was about, I don't know, I think I, you know, I just try and do as much as possible and to make it all seem as, you know, if I feed something in a scene that the character is doing then I think, well, I should kind of learn how to do that myself and then I'll hopefully make it look convincing.

12:30 [SPEAKER_02]: How was that experience specifically? [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, again, something, you know, I quite like challenge. [SPEAKER_05]: So, right, liking things I've never done before. [SPEAKER_05]: So, it was cool. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and interesting for Gladys in building her character. [SPEAKER_02]: And Kerry, I know you've grown up around horses.

12:52 [SPEAKER_02]: So, I feel like, because that's one of the things, right? [SPEAKER_02]: If the director says, can you ride horses? [SPEAKER_02]: You say yes, except you can ride horses. [SPEAKER_02]: You grew up around horses. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but I didn't need to write any in this movie, but I'm on a little car to a joke that Joel was doing more work than me for that.

13:10 [SPEAKER_02]: He didn't have to invest with it. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm in Louisville, you know, home of the Kentucky Derby. [SPEAKER_02]: I've grown up around those horses too. [SPEAKER_02]: I think I've been on a horse maybe twice in my entire life, but, uh, but like, what luck because did I read right also?

13:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, this was right close to your, where you live, your farm and home. [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, yeah, yeah, I have a farm in the Pacific Northwest, and that's where we shot the movie in Washington, and that was another draw for me, the trees up there, so beautiful, nature there is beautiful, and yeah, just felt like it was meant to be.

13:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, are you still involved with horses in the same way? [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, I have horses on my farm. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I pretend I'm a jockey when I'm not working. [SPEAKER_02]: It's basically so nice. [SPEAKER_04]: I went to a school, Chris Macaron as a school to learn how to be a jockey and I went there for like a month to learn how to be a jockey and a jockey, a clinch or director, his first movie is called Jockey and it's all about a jockey and his dad in real life.

14:14 [SPEAKER_04]: was a jockey so I I bonded with him over that over those but it was more the first scene I did with Joel and in the movie we did back in 2003 what me and Joel were on horses and that first scene and then on our first scene on this movie we were on the funny is kind of beautiful yeah full of go [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, things that keep coming around and around and around.

14:40 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I couldn't help but laughing also. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like the small world. [SPEAKER_02]: Like you, you're all three got the Star Wars credit. [SPEAKER_02]: Also at some point, nothing that you've talked about. [SPEAKER_04]: Um, obviously not because it just dawned on to me. [SPEAKER_04]: I was like, oh, yes.

14:57 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't know why you would, but at the same time, I'm sure there's a whole lot of nerds out there going, huh? [SPEAKER_02]: Huh? [SPEAKER_02]: What's the conversations like? [SPEAKER_05]: we cut through when we've done a job that we move on onto the next you have to not sentimental I know you do and we'll be right back right after this welcome back it's Kyle Meredith with Felicity Jones and Carrie Condon [SPEAKER_02]: I think both of you all, I don't know the timeline of everything, but with the releases, it looks like you're both coming off of some very big movies and jobs with F1 and the brutalists and everything.

15:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Does that stuff do you carry it over between movies like that? [SPEAKER_02]: Do you ever take jobs as sort of a breather after something else? [SPEAKER_02]: We can pilot cleanser. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: No, that would seem lazy, right? [SPEAKER_05]: No, I think the palette cleansing has got to be probably not what I'm doing, something I'm like blowing out to be a jockey, or what are you doing?

15:58 [SPEAKER_05]: Um, yeah, I think when you're hopefully, you know, it can't always be like that, but hopefully you're doing something because you really want to be doing it, and it's interesting to you. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I do want to ask one specific, very specific thing. [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm going to, for the future people watching and listening to this, say, you know, possible little spoiler, or just to give people the opportunity here.

16:20 [SPEAKER_02]: But towards the end of the movie, Joel's character, you know, he starts hearing, uh, flicity, your character, and in the wind and everything. [SPEAKER_02]: And it's a funny thing to play around with, like, just your opinion. [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think he's imagining it? [SPEAKER_02]: Or do you think she's an actual ghost?

16:38 [SPEAKER_05]: I would have thought that he's probably imagining it. [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's, yeah, I think it's, you know, that thing that, you know, when people die, they don't, they're physical form dies, but they sort of live in the people that remember them. [SPEAKER_05]: So they're weirdly still alive in your mind.

17:00 [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's kind of that idea that they live on in you. [SPEAKER_05]: And she is always going to be a part of him and that's who he is. [SPEAKER_03]: And she's haunting, but if she's a ghost, it's a totally different genre. [SPEAKER_02]: It could be. [SPEAKER_02]: I find that it's romantic, you know, that she would come out like this.

17:26 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to show you how it happened. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, because there's that scene where he... Oh, yes. [SPEAKER_05]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: Like then you don't have to, you don't have to worry. [SPEAKER_02]: You don't have to be curious anymore. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it was, yeah, it was almost like he, but there was something really moving in doing that, just the idea that someone had, you know, when someone has died in your life that you would get a moment to see them again, and that how nice that would be.

17:51 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, even if it is, yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: It's such a beautiful movie. [SPEAKER_02]: I swear it's one of my favorites. [SPEAKER_02]: Congratulations to you both. [SPEAKER_02]: It's been such a pleasure. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for taking the time. [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_02]: my thanks to Felicity and Carry Train Dreams you can watch now on Netflix.

18:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks to you for checking out the episode, hit that subscribe button before you get out of here so you can keep up with all the interviews that I've put out every single week at Spotify, Apple Podcast, NPR, WFPK.org, consequence, YouTube for the video versions or anywhere you get your podcast from, you can subscribe to Kyle Meredith with and please do give the series a rating and leave a review.

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19:24 [SPEAKER_02]: That does it for another edition. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Kyle Meredith. [SPEAKER_02]: I'll see you next time. [SPEAKER_00]: Consequence podcast network it's easy to hear your favorite artist on WFPK from wherever you are listen on your smart speaker live stream from our website at WFPK dot org from Louisville public media