Mike Patton on Teaming with The Avett Brothers, Finding a “Third Animal,” and Closing Faith No More

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[SPEAKER_02]: You also know him as Percy Jackson. [SPEAKER_02]: Just an example of what you get when you subscribe to the Kyle Meredith with podcast. [SPEAKER_02]: That's me Kyle Merit today talking with the one the only the absolute legend Mike Patton. [SPEAKER_02]: Who you of course know is a lead singer, Faith No More, of Mr. Bungle, among many other projects, including his most recent with the Ava Brothers, together they are Ava Patton.

[SPEAKER_02]: and they have a self-titled record that just came out at the end of 2025, a record that started as a remote experiment and quickly became what Michael's a third personality with its own DNA. [SPEAKER_02]: He's got to dive into learning how to fit his voice into the brother's bloodbound harmonies, discovering how Scott Ava's lyrics failed eerily personal, and how most of the writing felt frighteningly organic.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's his words. [SPEAKER_02]: Mike's also going to tease the 2026 tour kicking off right here in Louisville, Kentucky, promising a sprawling set that includes the full album, some avid staples, selections, maybe from Faith No More and Mr. Bungle and some covers. [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, they're going to be doing a rat pack song.

[SPEAKER_02]: You'll talk about that as well. [SPEAKER_02]: All while reflecting on the idea that none of his projects are side gigs. [SPEAKER_02]: the era all the main events. [SPEAKER_02]: Let's get into it. [SPEAKER_02]: We're talking Ava Patton and a whole lot more. [SPEAKER_02]: It's Kyle Meredith with Mike Patton.

[SPEAKER_02]: What's happening? [SPEAKER_02]: The Ava Patton record. [SPEAKER_02]: We have enjoyed so much. [SPEAKER_02]: I've been a follower and admire of your music for years and years and years. [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, there's always that element of surprise with whatever your given us. [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, love the Ava brothers and F.P.

[SPEAKER_02]: K. We played them forever too. [SPEAKER_02]: Hearing the two of y'all come together, of course, there's no way of knowing how this is going to work. [SPEAKER_02]: So I know it's been out a few months, but but seriously, well done on this. [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_03]: Glad glad it resonates.

[SPEAKER_03]: It does to us, but we didn't really know how we would land in the world. [SPEAKER_03]: But that is part of the fund. [SPEAKER_03]: because people's reactions are something you can't control and I have always had fun with that and seeing what people's reactions are and I've never been cease to be amazed.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's always a faction to people that are curious and there's a faction to people and those are I think probably my favorite reaction just like wait a minute. [SPEAKER_03]: What how how stop and if I can make someone stop in their tracks with anything I do then I'm I'm a happy boy [SPEAKER_02]: Do you, like when a moment comes along like this and you've had so many collaborations over the years and everything, do you go looking for something when, you know, I guess is what I'm asking for as a mode of inspiration.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, the reaction stuff comes afterwards and that's something that's kind of fun and something to pay attention to for a minute and then turn the page very quickly in my case, but [SPEAKER_03]: mean, every project is a little bit different. [SPEAKER_03]: A lot come out of friendships. [SPEAKER_03]: In this case, I would say it was sort of a blossoming friendship.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, this record is us getting to know each other. [SPEAKER_03]: In a funny way. [SPEAKER_03]: We had met in person before we recorded a note of music. [SPEAKER_03]: Um, so there was a real kind of telepathic thing going on and a lot of trust and a lot of, uh, I would say, yeah, vulnerability, but also a deep knowing that, hey, these guys got my back and I got theirs.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was thinking back when Robert Plant got together with Allison Krauss for the first time. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I love how he got there and Rick it, right, and him talking about like he had to learn to sing in a whole new way because he wasn't used to that harmonizing duet type of thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: David Burns had something similar when he and Annie St. Vincent got together for their record. [SPEAKER_02]: And so it is like that comes the obvious point like was there learning care for you to vocally meet this existing entity not just one person but a whole thing like what was that process you hear it on the record that was me learning on the job but I will say that [SPEAKER_03]: I was very, very cautious about my approach to it.

[SPEAKER_03]: I knew that it would be challenging. [SPEAKER_03]: In a lot of my projects, the voice is used in a particular way where it occupies a certain space in the music. [SPEAKER_03]: And one of the daunting challenging and really, really enticing things about composing and [SPEAKER_03]: where the hell do I fit in, and not only speaking in genre terms, but even deeper, I mean, these guys have a, I mean, the brothers for Christ 6.

[SPEAKER_03]: So not only do they harmonize like angels and have this deep musical connection, there's blood in there. [SPEAKER_03]: And like, how do you mess with that? [SPEAKER_03]: So I was very aware and cognizant of that, of that union, and of not screwing it up, of adding things to where necessary and really knowing when to button my lick when there wasn't a calling for me.

[SPEAKER_02]: But you're still like, you're so very proud. [SPEAKER_02]: You're all over it. [SPEAKER_02]: It's not like it feels like it doesn't feel like it's the Ava Brothers. [SPEAKER_02]: And Mike Patton, I guess is what I'm saying. [SPEAKER_02]: Like I don't know, yeah, if you can verbalize like the answer to your question, where do I fit in on this?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like what was the answer to that? [SPEAKER_03]: Basically, and we found this out, the whole process of it was discovery and exploration. [SPEAKER_03]: And we discovered very early on that, okay. [SPEAKER_03]: I would say after about two, three songs, [SPEAKER_03]: without being in the same room with them, we just had this virtual head nod like, oh, shit, we got something here.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's maybe not what we thought. [SPEAKER_03]: It's a third personality. [SPEAKER_03]: It's a third animal. [SPEAKER_03]: It's a, there's them and there's me and it's beautiful. [SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of like, we had a sibling. [SPEAKER_03]: or with some kind of incest or I don't know how you want to verbalize that or think about that, but it became its own.

[SPEAKER_03]: uh uh animal and and that to me is probably the greatest achievement because I don't really know what it is. [SPEAKER_03]: I don't I don't know it's got our DNAs all over it but it's something else and you might not recognize it walking down the street. [SPEAKER_02]: Was that the also the case for when it came to the lyrics [SPEAKER_02]: I want to say specifically the front half of the record, going from Dark Knight of the Soul and to be known into Heaven's breath.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, like, literally, this is a really, really heavy trio of songs, I guess is what I'm getting to. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I mean, Dark Knight of the Soul, you know, I'm looking at some of my notes over here and you have words like emptiness. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the core belief about yourself that might have been fictional, the line-using, I've been borrowing air.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's a devastating metaphor, I guess is what I'm getting to. [SPEAKER_02]: So when we talk about the lyrics of it, like, does that work in the same way for you guys? [SPEAKER_02]: I suppose so. [SPEAKER_03]: I would say, maybe 99% of the lyrics were written by Scott. [SPEAKER_03]: I added things here and there, but [SPEAKER_03]: they mostly came from him and at least that's how it started and but they felt so natural for me to say and oddly enough this is the other so I cosmic part of this is at that particular juncture in my life his lyrics were almost as if I'd written them it was like the guy was like [SPEAKER_03]: Motherfucker, you know everything that's going on with me.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it was like haunting. [SPEAKER_03]: And that was yet another flag that was raised and 10 is on top of my head that was like, this is meant to happen. [SPEAKER_03]: This is going to happen. [SPEAKER_03]: Regardless of people here or they're not, we're gonna make a bunch of music. [SPEAKER_03]: And in some way for me, it was very therapeutic.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not you don't have to you don't have to put on a costume like you're tapping into this. [SPEAKER_03]: Yep, and it was immediate. [SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't like, oh, uh, let's do a Oak Ridge Boys thing here and maybe I'll scream a little bit there. [SPEAKER_03]: No, it just everything came really, uh, almost frighteningly organic and and naturally.

[SPEAKER_02]: and we'll be right back right out to this. [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back, it's Kyle Manith with Mike Patton. [SPEAKER_02]: So did you said 80, 90% did you bring in anything or that was already existed beforehand or do you just, like you said, add things in the moments? [SPEAKER_03]: Basically, I had it things in the moments.

[SPEAKER_03]: Really the only tricky thing about the way this came about was how to start. [SPEAKER_03]: So if you think about it, we were kind of mutual fans and we thought, hey, let's try something. [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, where do you begin? [SPEAKER_03]: And I had some things laying around, Scott had some things laying around.

[SPEAKER_03]: He was the first one to send things. [SPEAKER_03]: And he sent me a tracker too. [SPEAKER_03]: And I knew exactly what to do immediately and I just did it without really even, I mean, it was just a media. [SPEAKER_03]: It was like a bodily function. [SPEAKER_03]: And I sent him back and he really enjoyed them.

[SPEAKER_03]: and it opened up a lot of avenues immediately. [SPEAKER_03]: And we immediately knew, I mean, the plan was for me to send him some ideas that I thought would be appropriate as well. [SPEAKER_03]: And I put the Kambash on that like a media like, no, no, no, no, we found our lane. [SPEAKER_03]: We found the path here.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to tinker with it. [SPEAKER_03]: Well, let's stay true to what this is. [SPEAKER_03]: And so he kept sending me stuff and I'd send it back and it would be, [SPEAKER_03]: very different than what I received and most of it ended up working. [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes I'd push a little bit too far.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was really just about finding the comfort zone where both of us, where the language really took on a life of its own. [SPEAKER_02]: It suddenly makes a lot more sense because it almost feels like a conceptual record a lot of the time. [SPEAKER_02]: There are moments here and there where something like the ox driver's song just [SPEAKER_02]: But, but, lyrically, you know, and, and how it ends from, how it began, like it, it makes sense now that most of this came from one person one chunk and I don't know, like, do you all ever take that moment to stop and say, hang on, this record is about something?

[SPEAKER_03]: Personally, no, not me. [SPEAKER_03]: To me, it's a document, a snapshot of a bunch of guys at a certain place and time. [SPEAKER_03]: But these are things that I have made a bunch of records and, [SPEAKER_03]: I do them on a really instinctive, almost craftsmen like playing, if you will, and I kind of think about them later.

[SPEAKER_03]: Many years later, like, oh, oh, that maybe, yeah, okay, I think I was trying to say that. [SPEAKER_03]: But for this one, it's too fresh. [SPEAKER_03]: So I couldn't really tell you. [SPEAKER_03]: I know there's [SPEAKER_03]: But one thing that I have gotten better at over the years is trying to not attach too much of it, of meaning to it, I feel like that is the responsibility of the listener of the person who's experiencing it because everyone's going to experience it differently.

[SPEAKER_03]: Some people will be driving in a car. [SPEAKER_03]: Some people want to stay at a live show when they're getting hammered. [SPEAKER_03]: Other people sit down with a piece of paper and some headphones. [SPEAKER_03]: And I feel like, who am I to interfere with? [SPEAKER_03]: Someone's. [SPEAKER_03]: interpretation, experience, or feeling of it because ultimately that's what it's meant to be felt.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting the craftsman, you know, you're saying it that way because because my assumption would mean that you don't approach it with like it's not too precious, I guess. [SPEAKER_03]: It is, but after, after right, but in that moment, right, I get lost in the nuts and bolts of it, you know, what color of wood we're going to use here, our weeding nails or screws, the assembly and construction and composition of it is what fascinates me.

[SPEAKER_02]: So where to, I brought up exactly a where does the ox driver song, when does that happen in the process? [SPEAKER_03]: I think, I'm kind of guessing here, but I knew at one point, I said Scott, I want to real like Banjo Rager. [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a big fan of Doc Bawks. [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you know him.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know Doc Bawks, no, unbelievable. [SPEAKER_03]: Kind of, gosh, thank you's from Virginia, but it's kind of Appalachian, [SPEAKER_03]: angel picking, but also mixed with, I want to say yeah, like early blues. [SPEAKER_03]: And it's, but it's dark as hell. [SPEAKER_03]: It's really like, just his voice alone sounds like he's coming from, you know, the other side of the grave of this guy's unbelievable.

[SPEAKER_03]: And we had shared admiration for this guy and he's like, you know, I think, uh, [SPEAKER_03]: he knows that repertoire a lot. [SPEAKER_03]: So he brought it to me and I was familiar with this song I heard, I can't remember, some vocal groups are like a million people covered that tune. [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, that's one where I did a lot of kind of mangling [SPEAKER_03]: in a production sense.

[SPEAKER_03]: I added a lot of grit and grime to that one because I really wanted to sound melancholy but also a little bit menacing. [SPEAKER_02]: Fun with headphones by the way, that's fun. [SPEAKER_02]: Just hearing everything going on at the background. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, I hope somebody had a camera going at some point during this.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to [SPEAKER_02]: to see what was happening back there. [SPEAKER_02]: Are you all doing, are you all doing all these songs live? [SPEAKER_03]: Is that the plan? [SPEAKER_03]: We are. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm pretty sure we're playing all of them. [SPEAKER_03]: The life shows going to be fun.

[SPEAKER_03]: We're working on it now. [SPEAKER_03]: I've got like a skeletal version of the set, but this is like 30 something songs. [SPEAKER_03]: So it's, it's, um, there's all of the A bit patent catalog. [SPEAKER_03]: some things from each of our back catalogs, which should be fun, and also a bunch of really interesting covers.

[SPEAKER_03]: So it'll be kind of um, I'm looking forward to seeing how it all comes together. [SPEAKER_03]: There'll be the band is like really, really versatile and great, and we plan to make a good use of all of it. [SPEAKER_03]: We'll break off into duos and trios and [SPEAKER_03]: There probably be some gospel stuff in there.

[SPEAKER_03]: Some covers may be unexpected. [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, maybe it'll come off like a... [SPEAKER_03]: review or a jamboreer something like that which I would enjoy and we'll be right back right up to this. [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back. [SPEAKER_02]: It's Kyle Manith with Mike Patton, which I should point out.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I've been lovable outside of big years. [SPEAKER_02]: You guys are kicking off the tour with two nights here. [SPEAKER_02]: It was right with at the YUM center, which I love seeing the avids there and everything I've seen them there before. [SPEAKER_02]: But it's fun too, two nights and what can happen with it, which I also expect that you're probably going to be working out some of the kinks in those shows.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: Well, like big years, there'll be blood and guts all over the stage, but hopefully we'll have it cleaned up by the time we get to Louisville. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because you don't have to reveal, of course. [SPEAKER_02]: I know it's probably going to be in surprise, but when you talk about from the back catalog, do you choose that or do they hit you up with songs that they would like to do of yours?

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm both, both. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: I had some suggestions, um, uh, they had some and we're working that out now. [SPEAKER_03]: Because there's just, we could go a lot of different ways, which is exciting, uh, uh, and also I'm making requests like, no, you got to do this, save it where the song, come on, man.

[SPEAKER_03]: And they're kind of the same with like, what about this Mr. Bungle song or what about some film music and, and the, [SPEAKER_03]: the really fun thing is that that can be a living breathing thing like as we tour the first week will probably be more of us figuring out like you say the kinks and whatnot but eventually God this thing could change from that on a night and night basis.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm hoping I'm thinking you know even on my own wishlist like Satan pulls the strings there song with you on it just feel [SPEAKER_02]: when I heard some of this was like, man, that would really be a good moment in the show if he gets to be a part of that one right there. [SPEAKER_03]: That's a good one.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's a good one. [SPEAKER_03]: And then there's like, you know, they want me to sit in on, and of course I want to as well on some of the eight of proper tunes. [SPEAKER_03]: And then it gets to be like, oh, where am I needed and where would it be extra? [SPEAKER_03]: So, but that one, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'll figure out something to do on that one. [SPEAKER_02]: You're just, because you mentioned Bungle. [SPEAKER_02]: I was looking at that because you just finished the tour with that project as well. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, does that leave any, I don't know if I even believe it would, does that leave any creative overlap of something like that?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like coming off of that rolling into this? [SPEAKER_02]: Not! [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, a whole lot like you can like put those you can close the door one to open the other. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: I kind of have to because that is like in many regards a polar opposite. [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's raging thrash metal hardcore punk and.

[SPEAKER_03]: insanity and really, really fun and really, really meaningful to me. [SPEAKER_03]: But it's, I would say the, really, the only similarity would be just the physical muscles of touring. [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm, I'm in, I'm in touring shape, which is good. [SPEAKER_02]: But you, and I guess that's part of what I was getting to like accessing that emotion that you might have to have for a bundled versus accessing.

[SPEAKER_02]: something. [SPEAKER_03]: And before this I hadn't toured in a while. [SPEAKER_03]: So now I feel very prepared. [SPEAKER_02]: Is it was it some closure that goes along with that? [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I would even ask that for the fake the more stuff. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, is it when you went back and put out stuff and did a little bit of touring like was closure anything about that moment in your life?

[SPEAKER_03]: I [SPEAKER_03]: didn't really think so at the time. [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, maybe. [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and I think that we all kind of felt it, but it was on spoken. [SPEAKER_03]: And it's funny, just when you've been in a band or a musical situation for a period of time, always in the back of your head, you're kind of thinking, well, maybe this is it.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I, I don't mind that feeling. [SPEAKER_03]: I don't see it as a sad thing. [SPEAKER_03]: I see it as is being. [SPEAKER_03]: being present and being able to really appreciate it while it's happening. [SPEAKER_02]: What always seemed maybe different with you than a lot of other people, just because again, like you're a part of so many collaborations and so many projects, you know, like you can put weight on one project because there was a radio hit or something like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: But when I, when I as a fan step back and look at your career, you know, in the broadest pain strokes, you know, whatever. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I guess it makes more sense in [SPEAKER_02]: What am I saying here? [SPEAKER_02]: Like, never, man, maybe is a stop on the journey. [SPEAKER_02]: Just the same as faith, no more was a stop on the journey.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just the same as Eva Patton is a stop on the journey, you know? [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, I guess it, it doesn't take the importance of way of those projects and what you did, but I guess it takes the weight off of, man does this have to go on forever, kind of a thing. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, also, I never really understood and I had to figure this out very early on.

[SPEAKER_03]: was the concept of a side project. [SPEAKER_03]: That's assuming that there's a main one. [SPEAKER_03]: And for me, I really never had one. [SPEAKER_03]: There were projects like Favec and more rice spent more time on, in terms of touring and promoting quote unquote, if you will. [SPEAKER_03]: But everything that I've done was of equal importance to me.

[SPEAKER_03]: They just weren't viewed that way and the public for whatever reason needs to have a hierarchy kind of built in there Just to make themselves feel better about it. [SPEAKER_03]: I guess. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know you said that as I was that's what I was trying to say right there Is that there's no same projects.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're all the main that's it exactly way better said well and and to put it back to where we are with with Yavipad and like [SPEAKER_02]: that this is happening right now. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just as in love with it as I am with so much of your stuff. [SPEAKER_02]: But again, this could have been something that none of us ever heard because, you know, it didn't work or whatever.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the fact that not only we're hearing it, but it works so well, really cannot wait to see what this looks like live. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I've done the headphones now. [SPEAKER_02]: I need the live show. [SPEAKER_02]: There you go. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, seriously, I appreciate you taking the time to talk about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. [SPEAKER_02]: Come and say hello. [SPEAKER_02]: I will. [SPEAKER_02]: I will definitely. [SPEAKER_02]: All right, take care. [SPEAKER_02]: We'll see you. [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks. [SPEAKER_02]: You too, man. [SPEAKER_02]: My thanks to Mike, Eva Patton, the album is out now and on tour.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks to you for checking out the episode, hit that subscribe button before you get out of here to keep up with all the interviews that I put out every single week at Spotify Apple podcast NPR WFPK dot org consequences YouTube for the video versions or anywhere you get your podcasts from you can subscribe to Kyle made it with and please give this series a rating and leave a review wherever you're listing from.

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Mike Patton on Teaming with The Avett Brothers, Finding a “Third Animal,” and Closing Faith No More

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