Modern English Reclaims Its Post-Punk Fire, Sex Pistols’ Paul Cook Rebuilds The Professionals, and Punk Grows Old Disgracefully

0:00 [SPEAKER_00]: It's easy to hear your favorite artist on WFPK from wherever you are. [SPEAKER_00]: Listen on your smart speaker, live stream from our website at WFPK.org from Louisville Public Media. [SPEAKER_01]: and welcome to another edition of Kyle Meredith with it's the interview series presented by WFPK at WFPK dot org consequence and the consequence podcast network thanks make it your way here to check it out if you're if you're not already I do hope you hit that subscribe button you'll get to new interviews just like this one sent your way every single week of course you can grab us at Spotify Apple Podcast in PR [SPEAKER_01]: WFPK.org, consequence, YouTube for the video versions, or anywhere you get your podcast from.

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1:53 [SPEAKER_01]: that's me kio man today it's going to be a special rewind episode we're going to head back to 2017 for a pair of interviews uh... first with modern English frontman robby gray uh... they reunited with the band's original lineup and had just released 2017's uh... take me to the trees and we got to get into uh... recapturing the fire of uh... records like mesh and lace and after the snow writing your corrupt amid trump and brexit and and widening inequality [SPEAKER_01]: And then later on, my interview with Sex Pistol's drummer Paul Cook, with him and Tom Spencer discussing rebuilding the professionals without Steve Jones.

2:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And we get into creating a more contemporary version of the band's Poppy Punk sound, calling in famous friends to complete the record, and looking back at the chaos surrounding the original professionals and what it meant to keep that punk energy alive while growing old disgracefully as Paul says.

2:50 [SPEAKER_01]: But we'll start with that interview with Robby Gray of Modern English. [SPEAKER_01]: So it was in 2010 that the band reunited their original lineup, then they spend the next seven years touring with the whole time. [SPEAKER_01]: And in that time they also got the itch. [SPEAKER_01]: to write and and found out that they still have plenty to say in fact there's still releasing records to this day new new music it's they're all great but we got to talk about that with one foot recalling their classic sounds one foot firmly in the present they release that first record at that point in in 30 years take me to the trees that's what we get into part one of this special rewind episode it's Kyle Meredith with Robbie Gray of modern English.

3:32 [SPEAKER_01]: like how it's ruby take me to the trees you guys have made an incredible record thank you much yeah i've had a lot of fun listening to it and i mean you know how it is for a band that's been around for as long as you guys have uh nothing is certain at this point so you know as fans we all kind of uh hold our breath for a second go and please let it be good [SPEAKER_02]: I think we delivered it on this long.

3:54 [SPEAKER_01]: You did. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we should probably jump into the obvious stuff first. [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll work further into the album from there. [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm sure this is story you've been telling a lot. [SPEAKER_01]: But what about this reunion, the original lineup? [SPEAKER_01]: Doing this record, it's the first time you've actually been on record for the first time in 30 years, I guess, right?

4:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you can blame the base player, Mick Connery for that. [SPEAKER_02]: He moved close to where I live in England, moved home from London out to the country where I was living, and he got in touch with me and said, let's meet up in number chat, so we did. [SPEAKER_02]: And when we met up, he said, how do you feel about getting the band back together?

4:32 [SPEAKER_02]: And I just, you know, took much enough of the floor first and then said, what do you mean everybody? [SPEAKER_02]: And he said, yes, if we can get as many people as possible. [SPEAKER_02]: We decided to have a go with it and we contacted all the members. [SPEAKER_02]: And everyone was able to do a part from Richard Brown, the drummer, which was about unfortunate.

4:50 [SPEAKER_01]: So, and that happened, though, a few years ago, right? [SPEAKER_01]: It started off with a tour. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I read a write that that lineup has been seven years now together? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's right about seven years. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's been an interesting ride.

5:02 [SPEAKER_01]: So, I'd be curious then, you know, what is a band at this age for you guys? [SPEAKER_01]: Because it seems like, you know, when we're all young, [SPEAKER_01]: you know, it's a real, it's a real force. [SPEAKER_01]: You're a gang, you know, all for one against the world or whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: I know a lot of folks end up like that, but how does it feel at this point with a reunion and, you know, 40 years behind you?

5:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, it's interesting. [SPEAKER_02]: It's very different because you haven't got that kind of, [SPEAKER_02]: Optimism of youth, that kind of electricity, they have when you're very young. [SPEAKER_02]: But what's nice about is that we're all a bit more satisfied, exposing some ways a bit more content.

5:37 [SPEAKER_02]: So we haven't got to write music for anybody else, we just write it for ourselves, because obviously that song I met with you pays all the bills. [SPEAKER_02]: So we're not financially in trouble or anything like that. [SPEAKER_02]: So we literally just made the music we wanted to make.

5:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you were talking about the electricity and everything. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, all the dangers seem to be in the youth of music. [SPEAKER_01]: And for this record, though, I get that sense. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I'm talking about. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you don't expect any musician or artist to reconnect with that fire after they've been going for anything usually over 10 years.

6:13 [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know I get that for this record. [SPEAKER_01]: Was it a hard for you to connect with that? [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, that's the fantastic thing for you to say, because that's exactly what we wanted to do. [SPEAKER_02]: We wanted to get back to the early days of Mission Lace for AD after the snow.

6:27 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the stuff that was really important to us. [SPEAKER_02]: Forget all the intervening years that there's nothing there worth talking about really. [SPEAKER_02]: This album, to me, the three best albums by Modern English are meshing lace after the snow and taming to the trees. [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, what you just says is really nice for a band to hear, because it worked really hard on trying not to sound too old, I suppose you'd say.

6:49 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we wanted on tracks like Sweet Revenge for instance to have that spike you get to our sound and to have me bellowing out my vocals again. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's exactly what we were trying to do was to not sound like a load of old men. [SPEAKER_01]: and you pulled it off. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, and it should be brought up too, because last year you guys did the mission release tour.

7:09 [SPEAKER_01]: We did the whole thing front to back, and is that, is this album, you know, any kind of directing influence of that or was that sort of all part of the scheme once you were together and re-finding that sound? [SPEAKER_02]: No, the Mission Lace tool was a separate thing, really, I mean, we'd always wanted to play the Mission Lace album and the very early 4 AD singles.

7:29 [SPEAKER_02]: We never really had the chance because of, you know, the commercial success of the band in America, really. [SPEAKER_02]: So to do that, but when you probably know yourself, this is a big post-punk revival everywhere all over the world, really, and Mission Lace fits into that, and so when we came out in the road last year to do that tour for Mission Lace, it was amazing to see [SPEAKER_02]: 20-year-old people, you know, kids of 20 years old in the audience.

7:51 [SPEAKER_02]: It was brilliant. [SPEAKER_02]: But there was a separate thing to the tape to the trees out. [SPEAKER_02]: We've been writing that probably over the last two years, there were women, you know, we just, it's not really, it's connected slightly to a mission later, not to the snow. [SPEAKER_02]: But obviously we've learned to write songs a lot better than we used to be able to do through the knowledge of our spos and the length of time we've been making music.

8:14 [SPEAKER_02]: And then all the best three albums you've got for me is meshing lace off to the snow and taking to the trees. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to take a pause just real quick to remind you if you like what you're listening to right now. [SPEAKER_01]: If you dig these conversations, please do hit that subscribe button just you doing that helps out so much and we'll be right back right after this.

8:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back. [SPEAKER_01]: It's Kyle and Meredith with Robbie Grey of Modern English. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's talk about more than was specifically take me to the trees. [SPEAKER_01]: How were the songs built in and were they built out of jams? [SPEAKER_01]: Or, you know, did you guys bring them in separately?

8:47 [SPEAKER_01]: How did it work for you? [SPEAKER_02]: A bit of a mixture really, I mean most of it is literally by being in a rehearsal room and doing things like we used to do, you know, get 20-30 seconds of music that we like, I'd take your way, put some vocals to awesome melody tours and lyrics, take your back in and work on it from there, but we also did do some songwriting on our own, Mick Conroy, the bass player again.

9:11 [SPEAKER_02]: started using the logic program and doing some songwriting on there and he would send me bits of music and we decided if we liked them or not and I'd put vocals on those. [SPEAKER_02]: It don't seem right was written a bit like that and I feel small was written a bit like that whereas tracks like your corrupt and sweet revenge were more of the jam down in the house of room and I think you can probably hear the difference between those songs.

9:35 [SPEAKER_01]: it seems like a really interesting tightrope that you would have to walk to because at one point you don't exactly want this to sound like an nostalgia album, although you're reaching back somewhat for inspiration, but it's still got a sound like of the now, right? [SPEAKER_01]: It's got a sound like something new.

9:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think, you know, what we were just doing what we wanted to do. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think having Gary McDonald's guitar sound, Steve Walker's style of keyboard was not the effects and the sounds he uses. [SPEAKER_02]: It was always going to be some sort of nostalgia attached to it because that's kind of the sound.

10:06 [SPEAKER_02]: But again, like I said, we've learned to craft songs a lot better, I suppose. [SPEAKER_02]: So we can arrange things a little bit better, and also have him marching young from Mars, Pump Up the Volume and Colabox producing it. [SPEAKER_02]: He's got a very big musical knowledge. [SPEAKER_02]: He's more of a scientist than musician, really.

10:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And he brought lots of the table as well. [SPEAKER_01]: And he songs on here, you know, you mention I feel small. [SPEAKER_01]: That's actually feels like such a different song amidst all of the, I guess what we call post punk and the angular songs. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, with that song, you know, is funny.

10:39 [SPEAKER_02]: When I was a kid, I used to sit in the bath on a Sunday and that I think that a chart show you thing that used to be on an England and on that chart show you'd get. [SPEAKER_02]: songs that sounded like they're in cardboard boxes, because the transistor radio speakers were so small. [SPEAKER_02]: You get things like Maggie Mae by Rod Stewart, canned, he American bands like that.

10:58 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you just hear this, this instant classic song, but he didn't sound big, didn't sound over-produced. [SPEAKER_02]: He was more about the melody and the lyrics really, and the song. [SPEAKER_02]: So we tried to do that. [SPEAKER_02]: We tried to make a song from the bottom up. [SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't [SPEAKER_02]: massive that was kind of small, like almost like a 70s recording.

11:18 [SPEAKER_02]: That's what we did with I feel small. [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, you know, I think the red, I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I should compliment that song a little bit more because it's extremely catchy and I've had a great time singing it every time. [SPEAKER_01]: But the rest of the album sort of has a bit more of a guess, a consistency from sound to sound, which maybe make that one stand out even more the way it does.

11:38 [SPEAKER_02]: But that is the one that the American management people have picked up as the sings of rise. [SPEAKER_01]: Those of rise. [SPEAKER_01]: That kick off song, your corrupt. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm just going to go with the title there. [SPEAKER_01]: That's a line that could be about a whole lot of people in 2017.

11:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And it is. [SPEAKER_01]: Is this the statement right out of the gates? [SPEAKER_02]: Well, come on, you must be as fed up as the rest of the planet with all the corruption and power and lies and money going, you know, 1% of the planet's got nothing and 99% of the planet's got nothing and 1%'s got all the wealth.

12:11 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he's discussed in really. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, your country's got the kind of world politics going on. [SPEAKER_02]: We've got the world politics of the Brexit, though. [SPEAKER_02]: You've got Donald Trump as your president. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, these are strange times.

12:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And that it even beyond the lyrics because the whole feel, I mean, you really encapsulated all of that even in just the sound of it. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's really nice of being safe, so we were trying to do that. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, when I first came to America, you've run a Reagan as your president, and now fast full with, I don't know, full of years, you've got Donald Trump, things haven't changed that much really.

12:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Have they? [SPEAKER_01]: And that's that. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's scary. [SPEAKER_01]: And the only other one I want to talk about, I was just curious because trees really feels to me like there is a bit of a callback to a Bowie's heroes and I didn't know if you heard that in that song as well.

13:00 [SPEAKER_02]: We've been a few people have mentioned it, not recently, but when we first recorded a couple of friends said that, but no, we weren't, I mean Bowie was still alive when that song was recorded. [SPEAKER_02]: There wasn't like a homage to him or anything like that. [SPEAKER_02]: But I know you mean I suppose the sort of sentiment is similar in a way that the phrasing that the sound of the voice is quite similar but people have mentioned it, but we never try to do that.

13:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean if you are going to have a tribute to the song you could do worse and that's a pretty great one to be associated with either way. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, when I grew up in England in the 70s and everything was black and white, David Bay was a small piece of color on your television set.

13:41 [SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, he was a major influence on the band back in the day. [SPEAKER_01]: And still is. [SPEAKER_01]: And so are you guys, by the way, you have been influenced on a whole lot of artists out there. [SPEAKER_01]: And I thank you for all of the art that you've put into the world. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you very much.

13:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And this album is no exception. [SPEAKER_01]: I do love taking to the trees and Robbie, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me about it. [SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully we'll see you back over here, one of these days. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we're coming back to America, and we're going on a tour again, you know, similar to the mission list, or we'll round America for about a month, so we'll be coming to a town near you soon.

14:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll be traveling to see you. [SPEAKER_02]: All right, Mike. [SPEAKER_02]: Cheers. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to take a pause just real quick to remind you if you if you like what you're listening to right now, if you dig these conversations, please do hit that subscribe button.

14:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Just you doing that helps out so much and we'll be right back right after this. [SPEAKER_01]: All right, welcome back, it's it's Kyle Meredith now time for part two of this rewind episode. [SPEAKER_01]: This was my 2017 interview with Paul Cook of the Sex Pistols and Tom Spencer. [SPEAKER_01]: We were talking about the professionals that was the band that Paul and Steve Jones started after the Sex Pistols broke up and they only lasted just a little while.

14:56 [SPEAKER_01]: There was drugs, [SPEAKER_01]: but well Steve didn't come back, Paul brought it back. [SPEAKER_01]: Any Tap Tom Spencer to take the lead vocals and they invited some other famous friends from the Clash and Guns and Roses and Adam and the Ants, and that's where we picked up our conversation right as they released that LP in 2017 called What In The World.

15:19 [SPEAKER_01]: So part two of this special rewind episode, it's Kyle Meredith with Sex Pistols Paul Cook and Tom Spencer of the Professionals. [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know that, that's to me, I'm Tom. [SPEAKER_03]: I'm Paul. [SPEAKER_01]: What an exciting time for you all. [SPEAKER_01]: You got a new album.

15:34 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a tour on the way. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know whether the color reunion or not. [SPEAKER_01]: It has an aim, but what do you see it as? [SPEAKER_04]: No, this is a new project. [SPEAKER_04]: It is part of, oh, this is Paul speaking about it. [SPEAKER_04]: This is a whole new project.

15:47 [SPEAKER_04]: Personally, we got it. [SPEAKER_04]: It's a new lineup. [SPEAKER_04]: It's not their original lineup because Steve Jones is not involved anymore. [SPEAKER_04]: We've got Tom here on guitar and vocals and then I've got guitarist called Chris McCormack on guitar. [SPEAKER_04]: It's like a new band really.

16:01 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a new professional to be got a new album because we didn't just want to go and rehash all the old professional stuff and just play old stuff all the time. [SPEAKER_04]: We just wanted to move forward a little bit. [SPEAKER_04]: We've got Steve Jones playing on the album a few tracks.

16:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And beyond Steve, there's an all-star lineup with this guest list. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, when you think of having members of the clash and constant roses, I take you for a fan, this is like Christmas Day. [SPEAKER_03]: You know what, it's not bad to be in the band as well. [SPEAKER_03]: It's like it's put out, he's a rock and roll address book.

16:32 [SPEAKER_03]: We fell out with, we got the original bass player from the professional still in it, and the original guitarists didn't work out. [SPEAKER_03]: So we recorded the album as a three piece, getting the songs down, [SPEAKER_03]: And then we just missing that fourth influence, because the festivals were a fourth piece, it just kind of the same ingredients.

16:49 [SPEAKER_03]: So pulled up these people and they, you know, they've colored the album in, it's great. [SPEAKER_03]: It's amazing to be on a record with them. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and they were all very accommodating. [SPEAKER_04]: And so it was all well up for it, you know, it took a little bit of on twistings, a few of them, but, um, [SPEAKER_04]: They were great and they just got back straight away and was willing to, I think they were all kind of the people that are rodent on the album, a kind of all fans from the pistols and the professionals from way back.

17:13 [SPEAKER_04]: So I think there was no problem and they were all friends as well. [SPEAKER_04]: So it's been great experience doing it with these guys. [SPEAKER_01]: Tom, coming into this while there's history of the name, it's potentially like a blank slate for you. [SPEAKER_01]: Is there a weight with the history?

17:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, of course. [SPEAKER_03]: If you're trying to be Steve Jones, it's completely impossible. [SPEAKER_03]: He's a one-off character, so I had to just have a bit of faith in the fact, well, I could make a big guitar noise myself and I seem like I do. [SPEAKER_03]: I don't try and sing that Steve, but [SPEAKER_03]: The sound, the album is defined very much by Paul's drumming.

17:52 [SPEAKER_03]: You can still get some drums, you know, and as a songwriter, when we in Paul sat down, we tried to sort of pay respect to the old album, but move it along, you know. [SPEAKER_03]: So we keep, you know, hopefully, hopefully we've done that. [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the reaction to the first track's great.

18:04 [SPEAKER_03]: You've just complimented it and the rest of the albums, similar white and similar vibe. [SPEAKER_01]: And what about for you, Paul? [SPEAKER_01]: Did the past of the band have an influence on the songwriting? [SPEAKER_04]: Mmm, not really, uh, well, I wrote the last album. [SPEAKER_04]: But the original professional album, just with me and Steve, we're 50, 50 straight down, and it's just transferred that over to Tom now, we just set around and, you know, bounce ideas off each other and we wrote the songs, Earth.

18:27 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, totally uh, 50-50 collaboration. [SPEAKER_04]: It was very much the same, same really, but um, I think it's, I think it's better to sound wise because I didn't, I didn't really like, because the band was so chaotic originally when we made the first album. [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think it, it sounds like great, uh, production wise.

18:42 [SPEAKER_04]: I think this is, [SPEAKER_04]: The songs are great on the album though, the original one and it is. [SPEAKER_04]: It's more in the same vein, yeah, it's just catchy, poppy, punky, rocky songs, whatever you want to call it. [SPEAKER_04]: But the productions a lot better, it just sounds more contemporary now and it's, so we got it to sound how we wanted to.

18:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Like I said, it was a bit chaotic, the original first album because everyone was all over the place and we didn't, we took how I off the ball really in it. [SPEAKER_04]: It didn't end up sounding like we wanted to, but this one definitely does. [SPEAKER_03]: Well, we do play some of the other videos that our songs look under in the live set and they go down great and then I think pause really kind of realising now how influential the professionals were, you know, to a lot of people who went on to form bands.

19:20 [SPEAKER_03]: you know you talk about the sun writing and there is a lot to pull from for inspiration and i've read about the song monkeys sort of being a part of that but was much of what's going on out there on your mind is the only one that's hard to zone a bit of politics in that it's an angry song about idiots following idiots you know i mean and we could you know without pointing fingers it's pretty obvious isn't it who's that you know when these clowns they'd get to run the can't get to run the world it becomes a scary place and shame on the [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, the rest of the songs were very much personal experiences, thought about getting a bit older, growing up and the experiences with, you know, what's going on in your life really, you know, lots.

19:59 [SPEAKER_04]: It was just about, we wrote from a personal point of view, we've all all the album actually, and, you know, just about still finding yourself and growing old disgracefully, all that sort of stuff, you know. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I guess there still has to be some of that punk ethos. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I hate to box it in with that old term there.

20:17 [SPEAKER_01]: But when you look back at the history, I mean, you were the first generation in that genre to get older. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and we still, we can still, you know, the songs are pretty, um, I guess the punky, I guess at the end of the day, that's what people call it, you know, and, um, they're still high energy songs most of them, and we still, that's the way we play.

20:35 [SPEAKER_04]: That's the way we, we've always played, and that's still us. [SPEAKER_03]: And because they influenced me as a kid, I was too young for the pistols, but I bought the professional singles when they come out of it. [SPEAKER_03]: On other, I've always been in bands totally influenced by that anyway.

20:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Did you used to do a band and come to America with a sub-pop band or the OOs? [SPEAKER_03]: I've been to Louisville with them actually. [SPEAKER_03]: And it's everything, you know, it's just that simple formula of genuine big guitars. [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, power. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, again, I love the album.

21:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so excited that you guys are doing this. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_01]: We're coming. [SPEAKER_03]: We're coming to the level. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: Take care guys. [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks, Carl. [SPEAKER_04]: Bye. [SPEAKER_01]: There you go, my thanks to Paul, Tom, and Robbie, and my thanks to you for checking out the episode.

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