Rewind: Desmond Child and David Foster on Writing the Hits, Owning the Catalog, and What Comes After the Charts

0:00 [SPEAKER_00]: It's easy to hear your favorite artist on WFPK from wherever you are. [SPEAKER_00]: Listen on your smart speaker, live stream from our website at WFPK.org from Louisville Public Media. [SPEAKER_02]: and welcome to another edition of Kyle Meredith with. [SPEAKER_02]: It's the interview series presented by WFPK and WFPK.org Consequence and the Consequence podcast network.

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1:40 [SPEAKER_02]: That's an example of who you can hear when you subscribe to the Kyle Meredith with podcast. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's me, Kyle Meredith. [SPEAKER_02]: Today it's going to be a special rewind episode. [SPEAKER_02]: Looking back at a couple of my interviews, one took place in 2019, the other one in 2020.

1:54 [SPEAKER_02]: The two interviews are with two of the most influential hit-makers of the last half century talking about Desmond Child and David Foster. [SPEAKER_02]: Now we're going to start with my 2019 interview with Desmond Child. [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go through some of these. [SPEAKER_02]: He wrote Kisses, I was made for Love and You, Joan Jets, I hate myself for Love and You, Bon Jovis, you give Love a bad name and live in on a prayer and bad medicine.

2:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Aerosmith dude looks like a lady angel. [SPEAKER_02]: What it takes crazy shares. [SPEAKER_02]: We all sleep alone and just like Jesse James He did songs from Jojo Siva Alice Cooper's poison Michael Bolton's how can we be lovers Ricky Martin's live in David a Loka Hanson's weird Just to name a few it's it's insane how many hits this guy is had [SPEAKER_02]: So at Desmond in this talk, he discussed finally step in center stage with a live release at that time is called Desmond Child Live, revisiting decades of world dominating songs, how writing his autobiography pushed him to reflect on legacy, mentorship, and the emotional weight songs like Live and On a Prayer still carry.

3:08 [SPEAKER_02]: It's part one of this special rewind episode Kyle Meredith with Desmond Child. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing fantastic as pleasure talk to you happy birthday sir. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you That was we got that yes my root 66 that's what they say Man, it has been so much Yeah, well, now I don't look 66.

3:28 [SPEAKER_01]: You absolutely don't I saw the pictures. [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't have guessed that I call that Botoxy-dermy Don't remember that one. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for that [SPEAKER_02]: And it is a such a pleasure to talk to you and it's been so much fun listening to this at this record with a Desmond Child Live and hearing all of these songs with a catalogue this big though why did it take till now was there any specific reason that you said now is a time to release this album you know it's kind of when you turn a corner in your life and you know I spent through the last three and a half years co-writing my autobiography with David Ritz it's called Living on a Prayer Big Songs Big Life it will be out this spring

4:07 [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, it's painful to look back, man, you know, it's not fun. [SPEAKER_03]: It really, it was hard to write this, but, you know, I also looked at, you know, God, I've worked my butt off, making, you know, making my career. [SPEAKER_03]: And I just started to feel like, you know, I want to get back on a stage, because I started out that way when my group doesn't chat on the Rouge in the late 70s.

4:37 [SPEAKER_03]: I decided to go back to New York City where we used to play all these little clubs and I found this beautiful jewel of a club called Findsteens 54 below under Studio 54, Thunderground and got all of my friends, all of the same troop from back in the day, even Rouge came back and we made this record and it was a lot of fun and also the versions are not [SPEAKER_03]: all blown up, you know, it's kind of like more stripped down kind of how it was when we wrote them.

5:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that's the way I heard it too, like this would have been this, but this probably the closest I get to the fly on the wall moment for those creations. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, and also it tells stories and, you know, all that. [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't put that much of the stories, you know, on the record, but [SPEAKER_03]: And I did spill the dirt, you know, in my show.

5:35 [SPEAKER_02]: What, you know, with his mini because, you know, as it's written, you've got a 80 billboard hits, and then some to go along with that, was there like the hardest songs to cut? [SPEAKER_02]: Was there's one you were like, ah, I wish I could get this on here, but it's just too much. [SPEAKER_03]: You know, the show could only be so long, and I was, you know, I wish that I had done poison the song I co-wrote with Alice Cooper.

5:59 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, or a song like what it takes, but I just had to kind of like, you know, kind of limit it. [SPEAKER_03]: And so maybe it'll be a Desmond Child Live to come in in the future with the rest of them. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I would love to hear that. [SPEAKER_02]: There are some surprises on here.

6:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, like, you know, the hearing you do, the song Weird that you co-wrote with Hanson, I don't think I would have expected that one. [SPEAKER_02]: And I love the version that you did with that. [SPEAKER_02]: I would say, and I need to tell you this, actually, I got my first kiss to the song Crazy, Erosman's Crazy, which, you know, that must be one of the things that you hear a lot of times, like having these kind of songs that you must get that story a lot, like first kiss, first dance, first whatever.

6:43 [SPEAKER_03]: First whatever. [SPEAKER_03]: That's why a lot of kids are named Desmond. [SPEAKER_03]: So it is amazing. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, it's like, we get so many letters from people that, you know, especially with living on a prayer, you know, that meant so much to them in their life. [SPEAKER_03]: And we once got a call, not a call, a letter from a guy that was going to kill himself.

7:13 [SPEAKER_03]: So he drives up to the bridge and he just jumps out of the car, leaves the car on, radio [SPEAKER_03]: and living on a prayer comes on the radio and that's his that's his favorite song so he gets back in the car he says well this will be the last song i hear and by the time it got to the chorus at the end he drove home wow i mean this obanjovey says lives and we'll be right back right after this welcome back it's Kyle mirrored with desmond child [SPEAKER_02]: You're your mentor and I want to make sure I say his name right is it Bob Krue is that is that hey Bob Krue yeah Bob Krue he legendary Bob Krue.

7:52 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean at a certain point I had my group and does Michelin Rouge and if we we broke up after doing our two albums on capital for a lot of reasons. [SPEAKER_03]: I think we're two immature and crazy to stick together [SPEAKER_03]: But I decided to do a solo career and so Bob Crew had moved to New York and he had produced all the songs for the Jersey Boys, they're not the Jersey Boys, they're called the Four Seasons, but they made them Broadway show in a movie called Jersey Boys, and he's a Bob Crew's a character in it, and he taught me all about songwriting.

8:29 [SPEAKER_03]: And so it was really like songwriting, you know, doctorate that I got working with him. [SPEAKER_02]: And for that to leave here, that's what I want to like I don't know if there's a formula, but what what was there anything specific that you learned from him that did lead you to be able to write so many hits?

8:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I used to you know, sit at the piano and kind of play some chords and improvise mumbling around and hope that those mumbles sounded like words and then I picked something and then build something out of it. [SPEAKER_03]: He wouldn't even start a song unless we had an amazing title.

9:05 [SPEAKER_03]: And he taught me that you write the script for first before you film the movie, right? [SPEAKER_03]: And then the music comes later, you know, it's the scoring because the music should enhance the meaning of what you write. [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, he taught me how to write titles that had irony, like you give love a bad name.

9:29 [SPEAKER_03]: I hate myself for loving you, heavens on fire. [SPEAKER_02]: these these titles write themselves of a great way to set out of an iconic titles on top of that i i want to ask before you get out of here you know so you've got the live album desmond child life you've got the uh... autobiography on the way and there's also uh... a movie two rights yes uh... my close friend and collaborator and dress Carlson who co-wrote a bunch of songs for the back three boys and in sync back in nineteen [SPEAKER_03]: 98 when I first met him is young and and he came to see me because he was bit on like I kind of what they call like pilgrimage to meet anybody who had anything to do with kiss.

10:11 [SPEAKER_03]: And so he came to see me and he told me about Lou Promenh who had created a whole you know company built on boy bands in Orlando and they called it Otown like Motown. [SPEAKER_03]: And so I said, that should be a movie, that's so interesting. [SPEAKER_03]: But then the story got better and better and better.

10:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he eventually, the feds caught up with him, because he had perpetuated a $500 million of Ponzi scheme to bank world the whole operation. [UNKNOWN]: Right. [SPEAKER_03]: And so, you know, we optioned a book called The Hit Surade by Tyler Gray and a vanity fair article called Matt about the boys.

10:51 [SPEAKER_03]: And we have partners now at Pressman, Pressman Film, [SPEAKER_03]: Greg Basser, General Giant, and David Anton, Anton Partners, and we're making a movie. [SPEAKER_03]: We're making a scripted movie about Luperman, and, you know, it's called TransCon, because that was the name of the company, TransCon, the making of Luperman and the Boy Band Revolution.

11:16 [SPEAKER_02]: I look forward to watching that one, and in the meantime, again, so enjoying this live album, Desmond Child Live, thank you so much for the music and the soundtrack to all of our lives. [SPEAKER_03]: Well, thank you for listening and also keep listening. [SPEAKER_03]: And it's so great.

11:33 [SPEAKER_03]: I go to a Banjovi concert and there are people there, all generations that have made their music, it's like a part of them. [SPEAKER_03]: John wait to the very last on court the very last on the last on court to sing live it on a prayer. [SPEAKER_03]: So no one will leave and that stadium stays full till they hear that song.

11:59 [SPEAKER_03]: And then when they do play it you can't even hear the band because the audience is singing so loud. [SPEAKER_03]: So I love that. [SPEAKER_02]: Beautiful moments. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much, Desmond. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_02]: And we'll be right back right after this. [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back, it's Kyle Bayer from now part two of this special rewind episode.

12:15 [SPEAKER_02]: We just go a year later in 2020. [SPEAKER_02]: David Foster dropped by now. [SPEAKER_02]: We should go through the role call of David Foster songs, right? [SPEAKER_02]: He has been involved with Whitney Houston's version of I will always love you as well as I have nothing and the prayer from Celine Dion.

12:34 [SPEAKER_02]: After the love has gone from earth when in fire hard to say I'm sorry from Chicago St. Elmo's fire man in motion, you know John par the best of me David Foster actually wrote that one Look what you've done to me from boss gags in the Skylar song wildflower again just to name a few in here [SPEAKER_02]: And David Foster, back in this 2020 interview, he dug into his own retrospective project.

13:01 [SPEAKER_02]: He was doing it at the time, broke down the theatrical instincts behind his biggest productions. [SPEAKER_02]: The famous studio moments with Whitney Houston and Celine Dion, and how he shifted his creative focus that time towards Broadway and long-form storytelling, including the Betty Boop musical.

13:17 [SPEAKER_02]: So let's do this part two of this special rewind episode. [SPEAKER_02]: It's Kyle Meredith with David Foster. [SPEAKER_02]: A trial pleasure. [SPEAKER_02]: It's a really an honor of especially behind this this new record and an instrument evening. [SPEAKER_02]: I should also point out you're announced the tour you're going to be here in Louisville to Louisville Palace on May 5th and we're really excited to have you out here.

13:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Congratulations on this record, man. [SPEAKER_04]: Hey, so I'm excited to come there. [SPEAKER_04]: You know I've done the Mojoba Dalí than in Phoenix celebrity fighting for the last 18 years I've been the musical host and so I have [SPEAKER_04]: for a moment, and I've been to Louisville before, which is where you see him as now.

13:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right. [SPEAKER_02]: It's right down the street from us. [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, if you've never been in it, it is just a mind-blowing experience over there. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: And I will hopefully visit it when I get there. [SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, I want to write. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, man.

14:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, let's talk about this record and what you're touring behind because an intimate evening, you have written and produced so many amazing songs throughout the years. [SPEAKER_02]: This is a great tracklist. [SPEAKER_02]: I got to wonder, is there a reason why you chose this group of songs specifically?

14:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Is there a common thread or just the ones maybe that were top of your mind? [SPEAKER_04]: just a dark board really. [SPEAKER_04]: So, in fact, as I've been doing these interviews, I've been people of ass people of summers that aren't there and I've been like, yeah, why didn't I do that?

14:33 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, she's a beauty for the tubes that I go out in summers like that. [SPEAKER_04]: So I might switch it up a little bit. [SPEAKER_04]: But this is basically me going out there on the road and performing the summers. [SPEAKER_04]: without the original artist, but with some great singers, and whether it's a Celine song or Whitney song, and just telling my story in October, 40-year, we looked back at what I've done, and the CD is now out my wife Catherine, and I did one of the songs from the CD on the [SPEAKER_02]: There's always, I've noticed a bit of theatricality to your writing, you know, you're not afraid of movements and those key changes.

15:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Where does that come from? [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_04]: It's funny, but I love that you noticed it, and it torres it to the thing that I get stuck from, if ever won't, so if they ever decide to talk about me, it's hugely bad. [SPEAKER_04]: I just, when I lay my hands on the piano, that's what comes out.

15:25 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not like I try to be, you know, bombastic with my music as Romans don't put it once. [SPEAKER_04]: It's just, that's what comes out. [SPEAKER_04]: And that's what I think entertains people and, and it's work. [SPEAKER_04]: And so, you know, I mean, it's not for everybody, that's for sure, but it's, it's certainly work for a lot of people and it's, it comes natural, it's not fake.

15:43 [SPEAKER_02]: What and and and and chose to because you know you 40 years you know 40 plus years that you're still cranking this stuff out and styles change does the song writing change how you approach it. [SPEAKER_04]: It does. [SPEAKER_04]: And of course, you know, as a song that I wrote for 20 years ago, with work today, I've worth myself a couple of times.

16:02 [SPEAKER_04]: And right now, I'm touring it as we mentioned, I've got this CD out, the DVDs. [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I would actually, and I'm finding ways to still be relevant in the music business without writing the top 40 hits. [SPEAKER_04]: I love Drake and I love Ariana Grande. [SPEAKER_04]: I just don't know how to make that kind of music, but it doesn't mean that I can't stay busy, you know, just sort of slightly retreating and attacking in that direction.

16:25 [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's what I'm going to state that a lot of people make. [SPEAKER_04]: They keep banging their head against the wall trying to do what they've always done. [SPEAKER_04]: And when it doesn't work, they just keep banging their head against the wall. [SPEAKER_04]: For me, I just go, okay, well, that's not working.

16:35 [SPEAKER_04]: So I'll do this. [SPEAKER_04]: all right musicals and trying to go on Broadway, which is what I'm doing or I'll do a PBS special or I'll tour or you know there's always something great to do. [SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't have to be you, it doesn't mean you have to be on top for your radio all the time.

16:49 [SPEAKER_02]: You mentioned Broadway and everything and the first single from the record something to shout about with Katherine. [SPEAKER_02]: I got the first single. [SPEAKER_02]: Now that's part of something else, right? [SPEAKER_02]: The Betty Boop musical? [SPEAKER_04]: It is, and that's something I've been working on for a few years, we finally have a great book written by Tom Martin and director, Gary Mitchell, and the peasants are all falling into the place.

17:08 [SPEAKER_04]: And this song strangely, even though it's obviously not a top 40 song, it's strange you got a lot of action in the last 24 hours, which is kind of surprising to me. [SPEAKER_02]: Now what what what steered you towards Betty Boop I mean was such an iconic figure, but not one that's really felt that I think that felt like it had a resurgent lately.

17:27 [SPEAKER_02]: What brought that on? [SPEAKER_04]: You know what brought it on somebody asked me to do it. [SPEAKER_04]: Nobody was asking me to write a Broadway play and somebody came along saying, hey, would you like to do a Broadway play? [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, what is it? [SPEAKER_04]: It's Betty Boot sounds good to me and that's been a great on-trade for me and now I'm working on four musicals and can't call them Broadway musicals yet because they're not on Broadway but I'm indigrated by [SPEAKER_04]: what I think I can bring to Broadway, and I'm excited about it.

17:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, knowing what you've done with pop music, it seems like a natural fit. [SPEAKER_02]: And I want to hit a little bit more on this record, too, with an intimate evening in this track list, because you've got all by myself on here, and I was watching an interview with Celine just yesterday.

18:08 [SPEAKER_02]: I think she was on. [SPEAKER_02]: I think he was CNN and she was talking about she was talking about that moment in the song that key change and it turns out that was a bit of a trick that you played on her right? [SPEAKER_04]: I did. [SPEAKER_04]: I heard the poor girl. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sorry to say all these years later, it's felt fresh in my memory.

18:23 [SPEAKER_04]: I made her sing this high note. [SPEAKER_04]: I dreamt up this high note that you couldn't imagine anything anybody could even hear. [SPEAKER_04]: As a matter of fact, the song written is written by the raspberries I heard from me. [SPEAKER_04]: And I reimagined it personally. [SPEAKER_04]: made her sing this high note eight times, made her go horse, she hated me that day, but it did come out good.

18:41 [SPEAKER_02]: It came out classic and as far as high notes got a, you know, talked about, I have to ask about Whitney too because the bodyguard soundtrack, I will always love you and the medley is also on this record as well. [SPEAKER_02]: But, but talk about, you know, all time iconic notes, I mean one note.

18:58 [SPEAKER_02]: What can you tell me anything about that moment? [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, when I, when I, when I'm sure that song, I heard the Lizurante version is very laid back. [SPEAKER_04]: And I heard it, and it doesn't have an option that I got a vision. [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm not talking to ABGB.

19:13 [SPEAKER_04]: And I got an amazing vision of how I could reimagine that song for, even with the key change, with the big room, with the drum and the high note, just knowing the power of her voice. [SPEAKER_04]: And it really came to me like in real time. [SPEAKER_04]: I rushed to the piano and I went, this is what I'm going to do when I played her at the demo.

19:30 [SPEAKER_04]: She was on the set filming and she went out of her mind. [SPEAKER_04]: She said, oh my god, this is going to be incredible. [SPEAKER_04]: And it was just a great time in the together of production, artists, and a great songwriter, Valley Martin. [SPEAKER_02]: Just incredible moments that you've been a part of.

19:44 [SPEAKER_02]: An intimate evening this record at the Louisville Palace May 5th. [SPEAKER_02]: You've also got a PBS special in documentary on the way, too, right? [SPEAKER_04]: Documentaries coming this call off the record, Tating 42 or 50 cities in the next five first five months of 2020. [SPEAKER_04]: So probably coming close to wherever you are in America.

20:02 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's going to be fun with a little closer and the CDs out and it's pretty entertaining. [SPEAKER_04]: If I wasn't mean I'd probably buy it, I'm going to get one for free. [SPEAKER_02]: likely you know somebody. [SPEAKER_02]: David, it has been such a pleasure talking to you and honor really thanks again and we'll look forward to seeing you here in Louisville in May.

20:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Hopefully you get to visit the Oli Museum. [SPEAKER_04]: I will for sure tell and if you if you show up to the concert please come and identify yourself so I can say hello to you. [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much, man. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, right.

20:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks. [SPEAKER_02]: And there you have it, my thanks to David Foster and Desmond Child, and of course my thanks to you for checking out the episode. [SPEAKER_02]: Hit that subscribe button before you get out of here. [SPEAKER_02]: If you're not already, you'll get new interviews sent your way every single week from Spotify, Apple podcast, NPR, WFPK.org, consequence, YouTube for the video versions anywhere you get your podcasts from.

20:50 [SPEAKER_02]: You can subscribe to Kyle Meredith with and please to give this series a rating and a review where every you're listening from. [SPEAKER_02]: After that, you can head over to wfpk.org, where I do a show Monday through Friday starting 6pm Eastern, it's 4 hours of classics from the 80s and 90s, you get the best in new music, and bonus interviews, lots of music news as well.

21:10 [SPEAKER_02]: One of my recent shows featured some classics and favorites from REM, Lushes, Jackson, Smith, Southern Culture on the Skids, Megafon, Snokap, Sean Colvin, Paul Thorn, Kate [SPEAKER_02]: The smashing pumpkins, and my interviews with Nick Mason of Pink Floyd, Lucinda Williams, and Margot Timons of the Cowboy Junkies.

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21:49 [SPEAKER_02]: And that does it for another edition. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Kyle Meredith. [SPEAKER_02]: I'll see you next time. [SPEAKER_00]: Consequence podcast network it's easy to hear your favorite artist on WFPK from wherever you are listen on your smart speaker live stream from our website at WFPK dot org from Louisville public media