Rewind: Wolf Parade’s Dan Boeckner & The Black Angels’ Alex Maas on Political Disillusionment, Music as Therapy, and Finding a Way Forward

0:00 [SPEAKER_00]: It's easy to hear your favorite artist on WFPK from wherever you are. [SPEAKER_00]: Listen on your smart speaker, live stream from our website at WFPK.org from Louisville Public Media. [SPEAKER_03]: And welcome to another edition of Kyle Meredith with, it's the interview series presented by WFPK at WFPK.org Consequence and the Consequence Podcast Network.

0:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for making your way here, check it out, you know how it works. [SPEAKER_03]: Like what you see what you hear, hit the subscribe button, you'll get new interviews just like this one, sit your way every single week. [SPEAKER_03]: Grab a set of Spotify, Apple Podcast, NPR, WFPK.org, consequence, YouTube for the video versions anywhere you get your podcast from.

0:54 [SPEAKER_03]: You can subscribe to Kyle Meredith with, please give this series a rating, leave a review if you feel so inspired. [SPEAKER_03]: We've had some great guest drop him by lately too. [SPEAKER_03]: Theo Rossi was just here to talk about his new film, come with me. [SPEAKER_03]: We hung out with Modern English, Sex Pistols, Paul Cook, Peaches, Superchunk, the Dead Milkman, David Doss Malcian.

1:14 [SPEAKER_03]: He's going to be starring as the Embice and the new Street Fighter movie, Valerie June, Billy Brager here. [SPEAKER_03]: Jeff R. Curie, the stand-up comedian with the new special on Netflix, called Nice to Meet You, Slow Dive. [SPEAKER_03]: Just an example of what you get when you subscribe to the Kyle [SPEAKER_03]: As Mikhail Manit today, it's going to be a special rewind episode.

1:34 [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to head back to 2017, 2018, for my interviews with Wolf Parade's Dan Beckner and the Black Angels, Alex Moss. [SPEAKER_03]: For Wolf Parade, they had just reunited for that album Cry, Cry, Cry, Dan and I got to talk about why the band had to prove that they could still write together before returning to the stage how political disillusionment found its way into songs.

1:57 [SPEAKER_03]: like weaponized and artificial life and then the black angels Alex Moss is going to dig into deaths song the bands connection to psychedelic history the meaning behind the album's title why he sees music as therapy rather than you know simply entertainment. [SPEAKER_03]: But let's start with that conversation with me and Dan Beckner at this point, Dan had been on the show a handful of times.

2:18 [SPEAKER_03]: It was good to catch up with them. [SPEAKER_03]: But at that point in 2017, it was the very first time that we'd been able to talk about Wolf Parade. [SPEAKER_03]: They'd been on an indefinite hiatus at that point since 2010's Expo 86 in each member kind of went their own way. [SPEAKER_03]: So we talked about bringing in all back together, of course, notable in the last year that there's been renewed interest once again, I'm off parade since one of their songs ended up on a heated rivalry.

2:44 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's fun to look back at this when let's get into a part one of the special rewind episode. [SPEAKER_03]: It's Kyle Meredith with Dan Beckner of Wolf Parade. [SPEAKER_02]: Hi Kyle, how are you doing? [SPEAKER_02]: I'm alright, how are you? [SPEAKER_02]: I'm in the Victoria British Columbia.

2:57 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm an island I grew up on and I'm weird. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: Is it kind of weird because you don't go there anymore, and this is kind of one of those surreal things or I know actually that comes out. [SPEAKER_02]: I only quite frequently because the rest of Wolf Rape now looks here But I'm here to play a show with my other band with operators.

3:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, yeah That's a lot to talk about because I feel like that's all a part of it, but uh cry cry cry and and Wolf Rape are Officially back. [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, there was the EP and that's always sort of testing the water, but I think we can say it's official now, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, oh definitely.

3:30 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, do you know, was the EP to get the gears working again or were you guys like diving right in right away knowing that this was going to be full on? [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, I figured we're diving right in right away knowing that it was going to be full on and and I think, you know, like when we started talking about playing shows and especially when that residency run in New York up brought up, that was kind of our debut back right, you know, [SPEAKER_02]: We wanted to write new music.

3:59 [SPEAKER_02]: We didn't want to do it with having at least a bunch of songs that we had written together, you know, first. [SPEAKER_02]: So that was kind of our priority. [SPEAKER_02]: We're like, okay, we write songs together, then we deserve to be back on the stage. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like if we didn't spill right tune together, then these shows make sense and if we can't, then they don't make sense.

4:20 [SPEAKER_02]: So it really kind of started from writing in the EP, and then that justified the life shows and the goal was always to, you know, go forward and make an album. [SPEAKER_03]: I gotta say, like, I don't want him to sell this in a condescending way, but I was so surprised at how good that EP was, because especially as an EP, you know, it doesn't have to be the greatest.

4:38 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, here's a few tracks for reintroducing things, but it was so good that it really did set everything up, like, I really hope this isn't the only thing, you know, I hope this isn't. [SPEAKER_02]: not all they were getting. [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, thank you. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it was great writing about songs and making, and making the EP, it was difficult recording.

4:57 [SPEAKER_02]: I found that process was, you know, we hadn't done it in a long time and we did it remotely kind of, I don't know, the islands and it, you know, at times it felt hard to kind of communicate like the sort of energy of the song to take, but I think we got it with the record, you know. [SPEAKER_02]: So if you like the EP, I think you'll like the output.

5:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I mean, even from the first single valley boy, it's got to be one of the most radio-friendly songs as Wolf Parade that I think I've ever heard, so it's... [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of that was working with the John Gitton to and like we did a ton of pre-production for the record in terms of just like getting in the studio and running down these zones and just trimming anything that we thought was a tranniest of them, which is not something we've really done before, you know, Spencer and I have worked really hard on like cutting out sort of just like trimming that off tunes and kind of pushing ourselves to like reach for sounds that we wouldn't normally reach for, you know, texturally and

5:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's just kind of wondering though, you know, because we've got the history, you know, there is the history of Wolf Parade in the sound that you guys sort of head back then. [SPEAKER_03]: And like going into these, do you at all try to reconnect with any of that? [SPEAKER_03]: And I guess especially now that, you know, you've got other projects that you can, you can stretch out on, does Wolf Parade have to sound like anything?

6:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, that took good questions, actually, uh, you know, I think I think the trick that we'll parade for everybody is when we, when we get in a room together, we, no one is judging anybody else's contributions to the song, you know, like, we're critical of parts that they don't work. [SPEAKER_02]: But I think the key is just basically, it is like the ultimate musical space and we are co-safe space for everyone.

6:39 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that allows everybody to just be themselves. [SPEAKER_02]: So no matter what happens, you know, no matter if Spencer's working, had been working on, you know, two years or the solo piano stuff or my sort of electronic stuff with operators, when we get together, it just always ends up sending life off for it.

6:57 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a way that we play together that doesn't happen outside of that group of people. [SPEAKER_02]: And we've made it, so we've made it. [SPEAKER_02]: We made the reversing the recording process so that like everybody is allowed and comfortable to do that. [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody's being pushed and pulled in any direction to no judgment, you know, it's really, yeah.

7:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And then it just ends up sounding like, well, for it magically. [SPEAKER_03]: All right. [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to take a quick pause. [SPEAKER_03]: If you like what you're hearing right now, please again, a reminder, please do hit that subscribe button. [SPEAKER_03]: It really does help way more than you think.

7:30 [SPEAKER_03]: And we'll be right back right after this. [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back, it's Kyle Meredith with Dan Beckner of Wolf Parade. [SPEAKER_03]: With all your acts, too. [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you know, operators, if you want to count divine fits in there, is there a main project for even at this point?

7:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Everything is equal, and it's just depends on what time of year it is and what the, you know what the album's cycle focus is, is on, you know, last year I, I, who are pretty heavily with old private, I also turned pretty heavily with operators, and the operators album's cycle is winding down like with these two shows and we'll not play on the West Coast.

8:04 [SPEAKER_02]: and then we'll for it is ramping up. [SPEAKER_02]: I know that that means operators should be writing now and we'll for it should be focusing on you know playing live shows and that's it's just kind of a weird circadian rhythm both having to dance And the rest there's a focus on the project depending on you know depending on what is going to take up the most of my time So right now it's will for it and at home it's operators [SPEAKER_03]: I'm looking at some of these album titles on your album, and I don't know, there does seem to be a thread going on here, and not knowing who wrote what songs by the way, but when you look at it, and it's weaponized, I'm an alien here, artificial life, and even Lazarus online and your dreaming and maybe incantation, there seems like there's a central thought going on with something here.

8:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I kind of hesitate to, it's not definitely not a concept album, but I think Spencer and I are both, both, literally, have been writing more immediate songs. [SPEAKER_02]: Immediate as it relates to what's happening politically in the world, and you know, our, [SPEAKER_02]: current state.

9:14 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's not an overarching concept, but I think a lot of these songs are informed by the disillusionment that was felt after the Trump election. [SPEAKER_02]: I had just moved back from the United States like before the election happened because I had really terrible feeling that no matter who won things, things were going to get more polarized in America and being a Canadian citizen.

9:37 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I should, I think my time here is up, I think I need to go home. [SPEAKER_02]: I feel bad saying that, because most of my friends are American, all the people I work with are American, a lot of our billions, like at least half of our fan base is American, at least, to be able to have that extra energy is kind of, I know it's a luxury, but I did feel relieved when I got back to Canada and a lot of that, so I'm writing that I contributed on this record a lot of America, so I kind of looked like it was that, I think.

10:08 [SPEAKER_02]: The artificial life is about my time living in San Jose, and you know, weaponized directly addresses, like, you know, the election, but there's a lot of other stuff in the record too, so that's why I wouldn't say it's quite a political concept album. [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think in the artist who's paying attention out there finds that this stuff just seeps in, even if you're not.

10:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Even if you're not going for it, you know, it's there. [SPEAKER_03]: It's what we're looking at. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and left you're writing like party anthems where you're writing within like a specific, you know, fantasy genre that you've developed for yourself. [SPEAKER_02]: take the artists that I talk to or not doing that they are they are not they are doing this is this is what it is so I think it's something to you know it's at the forefront of everyone's mind to backtrack the life in North America these days right [SPEAKER_03]: I enjoy how you're spinning it, how I love these songs that I've heard so far, I'm really grateful and happy that you guys are still doing this again.

11:10 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's the all grown-up version, I guess, whatever this is, version 2, I don't know, but it's working. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we all grew up for this. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's funny. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like I'd say the band is a it's a lot less chaotic than it used to be, you know, like interpersonally and And on tour there's a lot less.

11:29 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot less. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, Boeing, I guess, you know, let's just easily avoided mistakes. [SPEAKER_03]: The things that can happen without just take a little bit of time away from each other and just, you know, just take a little bit of time away. [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, exactly.

11:51 [SPEAKER_03]: And it was great talking to you, man. [SPEAKER_03]: I hope to catch one of these shows sometime soon and catch up again. [SPEAKER_02]: We will definitely be in your neighborhood in your area. [SPEAKER_03]: All right, buddy, take care. [SPEAKER_03]: All right, we're going to take a quick pause.

12:05 [SPEAKER_03]: If you like what you're hearing right now, please again, a reminder, please do hit that subscribe button. [SPEAKER_03]: It really does help way more than you think. [SPEAKER_03]: And we'll be right back right after this. [SPEAKER_03]: All right, welcome back. [SPEAKER_03]: The special rewind episode we're going to head now just a year later then that first interview to 2018 when Alex Moss of the Black Angels dropped by the WFP case studio to dig into the making of Death Song and how the 2017 album channeled native American traditions and political anxiety and the idea of music is something closer to therapy.

12:40 [SPEAKER_03]: then entertainment so let's get into it. [SPEAKER_03]: It's it's part two of this special rewind episode Kyle Meredith with Alex Moss of the black angels the black angels and the black lips playing tonight at the mercury ballroom. [SPEAKER_03]: It puts a smirk on our face every time because how often we screw that up because it's You did this on purpose though, right?

12:59 [SPEAKER_03]: You're touring specifically because [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, because just because people get our bands confused as I was saying I don't know if it's because you get your bands confused But but that it's sort of a thing. [SPEAKER_03]: This is a thing people have been kind of poking you at for a little while I was like you guys should do it because you both have the word black in your name and you're sort of similar musically [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, um, it's, we have people ask us, you know, why we did the tour, and it really, the answer, the short answer is it just really makes sense for us to be on tour with these guys.

13:26 [SPEAKER_01]: We know it for a long time, we've had a lot of levitation, um, once or twice, and, you know, seeing these guys all over the place and kind of cut from the same cloth a little bit, you know, but those guys are, they're really fun, wild bunch, they're good. [SPEAKER_03]: But it's a good show.

13:43 [SPEAKER_03]: There's another component here, the Mastachio Lightshow. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: Tell me about that. [SPEAKER_03]: What is that? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, from the get-go from, you know, the Black Angels first started, we always wanted to pay all much to early, early pink Floyd and develop it underground live shows.

14:01 [SPEAKER_01]: So they went underground, Andy Warhol would film these basically video complications put them together and plan behind the band, why they're playing. [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's just another element of the show, a visual aspect. [SPEAKER_01]: And we've always done that. [SPEAKER_01]: And so we are a friend, Bob, who used to be the drummer for the Warlocks.

14:20 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a really cool band from California. [SPEAKER_01]: I started getting into old vintage video production stuff and we integrated him into our live show. [SPEAKER_01]: He goes by the Mastasia Light Show. [SPEAKER_01]: His last name is Mastasia, Bob Mastasia. [SPEAKER_01]: And doing that, you know, it's almost like paying respect to the old Billy Graham shows from San Francisco.

14:42 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's such a part of the history of, you know, the genre of psychedelia and everything like that. [SPEAKER_03]: I love how it comes and wraps back around, you know, one of those great freak out moments in the movies. [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's, yeah, that's the light show that you would see exactly.

14:58 [SPEAKER_03]: You've got a, of course, the new record is called Death Song, which was surprising because I know is a band when they keep asking you years and years and years about your band name and you have to, it seems like you'd want to get away from that. [SPEAKER_03]: And by doing this, you just put the whole ball back into play again.

15:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's no, there's no question of where we got our name from, the other side of that coin of, you know, what actual Death Song is. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, two familiar with that, but. [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of cultures, Native American cultures as well, they encourage their people to write a death song.

15:35 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what you write in times of peril or near death, or if you're afraid, if you're going to die, write something called a death song. [SPEAKER_01]: It could be a chant. [SPEAKER_01]: But something that gets you through those hard tumultuous times. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's kind of what a death, that's what a death song is.

15:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's in a way music therapy bringing you into the file stages of death. [SPEAKER_03]: That's not the only time, you know, the Native American sort of comes in this record too, because specifically, even Comanche Moon is a track on here, which, uh, what in regards to the Native Americans versus everything that's happened to them with the government.

16:13 [SPEAKER_03]: And this has sort of been a theme with you for, often on for a while, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, we've always had an infatuation with Native American culture and music. [SPEAKER_01]: And part, they, you know, weren't typically trained. [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, like a lot of indigenous, primitive people, they didn't point.

16:28 [SPEAKER_01]: train musically, but they just were singing music from there, from her spirit, and they were teaching with her music. [SPEAKER_01]: And that was the other thing, you know, where to fish, where to hunt, and what Barry's not to eat, which people not to trust, I'm sure he [SPEAKER_01]: You know, so that's some, that other part of the, the music, the Native American people and just a lot of indigenous tribes, I think that's really interesting how they, that was what they used music for has for education therapy.

17:01 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's interesting, you know, when I go back and especially when you listen to a song like that, you know, we don't think about the, you know, Native Americans still having to deal with all this stuff that we read about in the history books, but that's still a thing. [SPEAKER_01]: And still a huge thing, huge problem.

17:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just that it's never been fair. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: even when we look back at what last year was standing rockin' everything else you just these little blips come back in and we see it for a moment it's crazy, it's not, it's wrong, it's really wrong and yeah, it's that, you know, history, that's if you don't look at history and learn from that little repeated self and that happens over and over and over but it's a really sad, it's really sad the plight of the Native American people [SPEAKER_03]: Black Angels have their new record Death Song, which has got these really cool moments all over.

17:47 [SPEAKER_03]: I know there's a new video for the song, Half Believing, which I read was sort of an homage to the Twilight Zone. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, the video was, it wasn't, it wasn't, my concept was actually Christians, um, but yeah, and that's, um, I think everything could be a much to, to Twilight Zone, right?

18:04 [SPEAKER_03]: I still watch it multiple times a week. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I go back and you know, it's streaming everything, uh, it's so good. [SPEAKER_01]: It's so good, like the help, the, the, the tape that they're using, how that the film, the lighting is just everything just so amazing. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

18:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Now I love it and it's a cool video that wouldn't just drop just a what few days ago I guess but it's out there. [SPEAKER_03]: The other track I kind of said it in on here is I'd kill for her because it's it's it's playful in a way. [SPEAKER_03]: It's sort of the the double thing, right?

18:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, but I like we like to write in double and triple speak, you know, so what are they actually saying? [SPEAKER_01]: Where are they literally saying and what, you know, what can someone take from the song from themselves? [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I'd kill for her to me has a lot of different meanings and I think that's the way of with a lot of songs that I personally write a lot of songs For that for example, that one took you know was completed over like a year time So, you know, that's a lot of it's a lot of different inspiration that can go into the song.

19:03 [SPEAKER_03]: as I could so as I listen to it and everything you've got the one point where it seems like it is about sort of a relationship but there's a bit of a danger of nationalism that also it kind of goes along here which is sort of been a long-running theme for you all you know [SPEAKER_03]: the word frightening gets thrown around a little bit when you're talking about a black angel's record because that music can be you know and and in the most powerful way I have a quote here that you're saying you know being a musician is more about therapy than entertainment for me yeah it is it is and it's what you do with the power that you have as well.

19:38 [SPEAKER_01]: and the whole therapeutic part of it is the reason why I'm still playing. [SPEAKER_01]: It's part of the, you know, being all around with these people and no offense, everybody on the band, and they're all crazy. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and you know, I'm in there too crazy as well. [SPEAKER_01]: So, [SPEAKER_01]: The music is so therapeutic, is therapeutic for how crazy the world is and what personal relationship things might be happening in your life from your relationship with your lover or in your politicians or your bandmates or the person behind the counter at the coffee shop.

20:16 [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's like, [SPEAKER_01]: It's all about communication, I feel like. [SPEAKER_01]: And music is obviously transcends languages, cultures. [SPEAKER_01]: And I never know what makes this joke. [SPEAKER_01]: I never know what Tom York is ever saying, but I really like it. [SPEAKER_01]: It's therapeutic.

20:31 [SPEAKER_01]: It feels good. [SPEAKER_01]: You can feel like I understand what he's saying, but I haven't no idea that. [SPEAKER_03]: Right. [SPEAKER_03]: It's interesting, the things you're saying are everything because, as a point out, a song like that and a plenty of other moments around this record.

20:47 [SPEAKER_01]: like earlier this that they were written before like any of the the recent stuff right yeah there while he songs were written from 2014 on and again it goes back to you know what inspires you to write a record one inspires you as an artist and to me and everybody in the band it's it's the world [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's a cancer of the world, and it's the beauty of the world, and it's the world, it's not one specific thing, it's everything that goes behind, you know, in it, and that, that, you know, a lot of the things that we've seen about I feel are issues that have been issues from the dawn of time, or, you know, very obvious to me, you know, you can write about a song that all of a sudden is like, oh, they, you know,

21:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I hear a song called Don't Play With Guns and that just happened to be around the same time it's like shooting, that's like isn't there other shootings like every day and like there's been you know people shouldn't be playing with guns since the creation of the peacemaker you know that's like the that was like the start of it so I mean that's to write in right in a kind of way that kind of pure timeless in a way that you're seeing about issues that have always been problems not just corona ones and they are [SPEAKER_01]: You can just lean on human nature for that and it's going to be an issue again.

22:04 [SPEAKER_03]: And unfortunately your songs become relevant over and over and over. [SPEAKER_03]: In that sort of way and I separate that you know from the songwriting itself, melody and anything. [SPEAKER_03]: It's, I mean it, you write, it happens with everybody and it happens with songs all the time.

22:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So I appreciate what you guys do. [SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate the music I love digging into a black angel's record. [SPEAKER_03]: There you go again, my thanks to Alex Moss, my thanks to Dan Beckner, and my thanks to you for checking out the episode before you get out of here. [SPEAKER_03]: Do hit that subscribe button to keep up with all the interviews that I put out every single week at Spotify, Apple Podcast, NPR, WFPK.org.

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