Steven Knight and Malachi Kirby on A Thousand Blows’ Broken Men, Brutal London, and Cost of Survival

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1:30 [SPEAKER_03]: As we Kyle Meredith today, going to be talking about a thousand blows the Disney Plus show with creator writer executive producer Stephen Knights and star Malachi Kirby. [SPEAKER_03]: We'll read really quick about the about the show right here in Spire by True Life [SPEAKER_03]: of a group of characters battling for survival in the brutal east end of London in the 1880s.

1:53 [SPEAKER_03]: One year later, Hezekiahs, a shadow of the man he once was, Wiltschiger Goodson is a strange from his family and drinking himself to death. [SPEAKER_03]: Just as wapping is about to sigh, it's last breath, Mary Carr burst back in the town with her loyal second Alice Diamond. [SPEAKER_03]: to reassemble her gang and reclaim her crown.

2:11 [SPEAKER_03]: As always, Mary has a plan, one which will involve all those she holds dearest, and this time it's riskier than ever. [SPEAKER_03]: Steven Knight, of course, he's also the creator of Peaky Blinders. [SPEAKER_03]: Malachi Kirby, you've seen him in roots and black mirror among many other things.

2:30 [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to get into this series. [SPEAKER_03]: It's the second season of a thousand blows. [SPEAKER_03]: Bear knuckle boxing in the late 1880s in London. [SPEAKER_03]: Mary Carr and her all female gang of 40 elephants as they call themselves and and everything that's happening Within the season as I mentioned a much darker season and we're gonna get into that with with both Stephen and Malachi to see how they prepare for something like this And to see where the story's going We might even try to tie it into the peaky blenders universe, so let's jump into it [SPEAKER_03]: and talk about the second season of a thousand blows out now on Disney Plus, it's Kyle Meredith with Stephen Knight and Malachi Kirby.

3:12 [SPEAKER_03]: I love it. [SPEAKER_03]: Pleasure to meet you both, and to be one of the folks who probably can graduate you on the second season of a fantastic series. [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_03]: I'd also like to say hello from the land of Muhammad Ali, Louisville, Kentucky. [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like maybe that needs to be a part of this at some point, at least.

3:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, absolutely. [SPEAKER_03]: Wow. [SPEAKER_03]: That's a big climb to find. [SPEAKER_03]: Well, let's see here, a thousand blows, fantastic second season, like I said, Steven, maybe I'll start with you, like because I read like these were shot together, corrects? [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like do you think of them as two seasons when you're doing it like that?

3:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was a leap of faith, not a leap of faith, but it was encouraging that Disney decided to shoot two series back to back, which doesn't happen very often, and it was great because I think first of all, the set that was built for this is the most remarkable set I think I've ever had the pleasure to work with.

4:12 [SPEAKER_01]: because it's built in an old brewery on the River Thames and it basically is 1880's London and it meant that actors could enter the set, walk down an alley, turn left, turn right, go through a pub, walk up the stairs, go to someone's bedroom and it was the real thing. [SPEAKER_01]: And the fact that that was there and existed and they kept it there for the two seasons, I think, and Malico would be able to answer this question, but for me anyway, it was fantastic because I knew what that world was and I suspect for the actors they were able to inhabit that world fully, you know.

4:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Malica, I would love to hear you take on that because because you need, I'm sure, you know, you've got your tool belt right, you're acting tool belt that you have inside you, but those external factors and what they can, how they can, they help lift you up. [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we, you know, I hear about costumes I hear about sets, but actually having this world built around you.

5:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a strange one. [SPEAKER_00]: I've always preferred to shoot on locations, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Because then I don't have to pretend that things are happening or that I'm going into a door and the room is somewhere else. [SPEAKER_00]: Journal of me, but this was weird because it was a set that felt like I was shooting on location.

5:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Journal of me, like it felt like I was going... [SPEAKER_00]: to location we were outdoors we were indoors they felt like we were on location and everything was really you know and the the detail that went into every single brick of this set like hand painted handmade like it all felt real so I didn't have to pretend in that way that I could focus on other things I didn't have to [SPEAKER_00]: trying to imagine that something was in front of me that wasn't there.

5:46 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I don't think I really saw a green screen really. [SPEAKER_00]: It's special. [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: Credit to the people that worked on it. [SPEAKER_00]: It's the most incredible set I've ever been on. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's weird to call it that because it just felt like I was on location.

5:59 [SPEAKER_03]: If it's still there, does it still exist? [SPEAKER_03]: I believe so. [SPEAKER_01]: It does. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it does. [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's been, you know, protected, because it is a set, but yeah, it's still a kind of loving that that's just existing somewhere right now out in the world, you know, and waiting for you all once more, I'm sure I, you know, I, but it's, um, Melka, I actually stick with you for a second because, you know, we, we go into the season.

6:26 [SPEAKER_03]: the second season and everybody's flipped. [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it would feel to me like almost like a dual role, I guess, because from all the bravado that everybody carried that first time around. [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think the word is broken this time. [SPEAKER_00]: That's correct.

6:42 [SPEAKER_00]: You know for sure, there's a guy especially in season one a person that we meet is a gentleman he's charismatic he's full of hope and dreams and joy and love despite everything that he's been through despite his is painful kind of upbringing and when we meet him in season two he [SPEAKER_00]: That's all kind of done away with, you know, he's the same person somewhere underneath all of it, but he's a lot less self-controlled, he's a lot less compassionate.

7:10 [SPEAKER_00]: He's in a place where he wants people, the people that hurt him to feel how he feels, you know, in a mean or to kind of have some kind of... [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's on a vengeful streak, you know, but he's underneath all of that. [SPEAKER_00]: There is still this person that was full of hope, but he's just he's taken a few too many blows and he's he's having to navigate this world in a different way at this moment.

7:33 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's so it's a really interesting journey because he starts off in that way, but we see throughout season two how he eventually tries to find his way back to the light and back to himself. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think he's never going to be the same. [SPEAKER_00]: but the person that he's becoming is I think a lot more well-rounded.

7:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Is that for you like can you flip that switch like that or do you got to ramp up into it? [SPEAKER_03]: Because especially in this season, like it feels like that character, like he's carrying a lot of pain a lot of the time, you know. [SPEAKER_03]: Like when you go into the day, [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like how do you go into that?

8:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I would as I say, like an encoded to Steve who wrote this, it didn't feel like I needed to flip a switch because it's still connected to who this man is. [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: It's just him in different circumstances, him making different choices, but it's still the same person underneath all of that.

8:22 [SPEAKER_00]: So it didn't feel like two different people even though he's behaving in a very different way and I think it's, you know, a testament to how anyone could be, you know, if you put any kind of human being in a different situation With a different scenario and different emotions running through him like they're going to be able to be capable of different things, you know, and that's what's happening with him here Steven why was the the choice to go darker [SPEAKER_01]: I think in the words of Frank Sinatra, that's life, you know, it's like it's, you know, he came and it, as you know, it's based on real people.

8:56 [SPEAKER_01]: So someone really did called hezekiah Masca left to make it, came to London with an ambition to be a lion team. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, what's more glorious than that, but then life happens and London happens and you know, relationships happen. [SPEAKER_01]: And so what I wanted to do with Hezekiah and all of the other characters, really, the central characters was to find them in a place where they'd sort of been blown apart and explore the idea that actually their destiny was to be together.

9:27 [SPEAKER_01]: So we watched them come back together. [SPEAKER_01]: because they sort of, well, the question is, do they have a choice or is it destiny or whatever, but they come back together? [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I wanted the series to be about is that, you know, it began with hope, it began with optimism and the belief that, you know, I can make it, I can do it and then suddenly this stuff happens, but then you don't give up and has a higher [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't give it.

9:56 [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't become a lion's owner, but what did he do? [SPEAKER_01]: He became a heavyweight champion of the world. [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, it's actually years, even though it begins quite dark, in everything I write, I try to be actually positive and optimistic about the achievements that the human spirit can make.

10:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, which by the way, when you got to come up with names, and you've already got something like Hezzakaya mask out there. [SPEAKER_03]: And we'll be right back right after this, welcome back it's Kyle and Meredith. [SPEAKER_03]: We're talking at 1000 blows with Steven Knight and Malachi Kirby.

10:33 [SPEAKER_03]: When you're researching the area, the era, then, like what are the hallmarks that we see here that you've landed on? [SPEAKER_03]: One of the things that was really interesting was the anarchism that was sort of happening at the time. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's a lot going on that was never scooped up by the historians and the history books really.

10:54 [SPEAKER_01]: But this was an incredible time. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this was the time when London was the capital of the world, not New York. [SPEAKER_01]: It was, you know, this is where everybody came. [SPEAKER_01]: A melting pot locks us, a few of ideas, concepts, very attractive, very magnetic to people, especially people with nothing.

11:11 [SPEAKER_01]: who came there believing they could do something, you know, and I did want to reflect the reality of it in order to do the research that I read newspapers rather than history books, where it was possible. [SPEAKER_01]: Because that is first, it's not first handicapped, but it's contemporary accounts of what's going on.

11:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And what you get from that is the actual chaos and randomness of reality. [SPEAKER_01]: Because history, I think, tends to tidy up and straighten it out and say, [SPEAKER_01]: but at the time it's all so it's going on. [SPEAKER_01]: So there was a lot of people who believed in that mechanism and communism and all these different ideas were coming through and what I wanted to reflect is that our characters don't go out seeking history, history seeks them out and affect them.

11:58 [SPEAKER_01]: And so they sort of experience in what's going on in the world and their experience in empire and their experiencing, the change in the way the boxing's happening. [SPEAKER_01]: All of those things happening too then. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's the challenge of the writer is to create characters that are strong enough to survive the storm of history.

12:19 [SPEAKER_03]: It's really poetic. [SPEAKER_03]: It's almost like you write for a living or something like that. [SPEAKER_01]: really well said, how much of the story do you know? [SPEAKER_01]: I've known that the story came to me by a Hannah and Stephen Graham's wife who came across the Hezekiah Mosca photo first, which is a great way to get into it.

12:41 [SPEAKER_01]: There's the photograph of Hezekiah Mosca. [SPEAKER_01]: standing there, and it's just such an evocasy photograph. [SPEAKER_01]: So she did some research and then asked me if I'd be interested. [SPEAKER_01]: Did some research into, into Hezekiah Mosca, water story, you know, came with his best friend, Alec, and Alec, the fate that he met.

12:59 [SPEAKER_01]: How can you resist and I'd wanted for a long time to tell the story of the 40 elephants, which patterns would be the same, you know, historical period. [SPEAKER_01]: And I just wondered, [SPEAKER_01]: what would have happened if hezekiah Moscow, that Mary car, who was the actual head of the Portielic, and so they ever met, and there's no historical proof that they didn't.

13:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, and you all do so well in the intro, I mean, with the closing up on the pictures and what a brilliant way to open that up. [SPEAKER_03]: But you know, and that's what I was thinking is like, you know, how far and advanced, how much more of the story do you keep in your head as a writer?

13:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, do you see the scope? [SPEAKER_03]: Like, if you get your, if you get every wish and this gets multiple seasons on and on and on and on, like, do you already have that kind of planted in the back where it all goes? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because you know, you hold hands with history and let it lead you because you know, well, I know that 40 elephants went on until the 1950s, for example.

13:55 [SPEAKER_01]: He's a Kermoscow disappeared, but then was spotted in New York. [SPEAKER_01]: So what that does, it gives you stepping stones, and then it's up to you to work out what might have happened in between, which gives you a lot of freedom, but it also gives you that anchor of reality. [SPEAKER_03]: Now Malachi on the more trivial fun side, I mean, you got to stay in incredible shape for a role like this, I'm guessing, has that continued?

14:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Have you broken that yet? [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it was just Christmas, I fell off a little bit. [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm back with it and yeah, I kind of, I started the year two times a day in the gym. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to try my best to keep it up when I get back to London. [SPEAKER_00]: The diet is probably not the same as when I was shooting for sure.

14:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm enjoying life a bit more and enjoying the cakes. [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm really enjoying my physicality as well and I love training. [SPEAKER_00]: I love training prior to this. [SPEAKER_00]: I had never boxed before. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm now I found a new love for that sport in particular and that way of training.

14:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that I'm going to be fighting AJ or anybody like that in the time soon, but I'm enjoying this side of things. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, definitely want to keep it up. [SPEAKER_03]: Have you found out that does that open up anything for you? [SPEAKER_03]: Roll-wise? [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe, maybe.

15:09 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we're living in a time of like action heroes and Marvel Superheroes and everything. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's not like that's what I'm looking for. [SPEAKER_00]: But if the right story comes along the right role, then it's definitely not something I'd say no to. [SPEAKER_03]: Now with with the choreography that you have though in in the ring shooting a show like this, like is there still room you know what I'm getting to I'm getting I'm just going to ask the question.

15:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Did the injuries happen? [SPEAKER_03]: Does anybody actually get hurt on a show like this? [SPEAKER_00]: So we shot two seasons back to back. [SPEAKER_00]: and that meant me training essentially for a year because I started training about month before we started filming and I kept training for the rest of that year and they built a box engine which was incredible just outside I say box engine box in ring right outside of the set so that whenever I wasn't filming I could go over to the and train of my coach and so there was a lot of training that went into it.

16:06 [SPEAKER_00]: definitely after about maybe say seven months my body started to let me know how it felt about me and what I was putting it for every day. [SPEAKER_00]: Thankfully there weren't any like injuries as a result of fighting but you know I definitely reached a point where I could do a bit more at all on my bones right now but yeah there weren't any major injuries nothing that stopped us shooting or anything like that just a couple of knocks and yeah and cuts but it's gonna happen and honestly I loved that part of it [SPEAKER_00]: It can get to you that is reminding me that this is not reminding me that this isn't real.

16:41 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: Like blood is blood and whatever cut is a cut. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like I love that stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it was a lot of fun. [SPEAKER_00]: It will be right back right after this. [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back, it's Kyle Meredith. [SPEAKER_03]: We're talking at 1000 blows with Steven Knight and Melika Kirby.

16:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I do love how you bring this character to life. [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you all have talked about they're only being two existing pictures of this person. [SPEAKER_03]: And for as much as Stephen can write this, like you still have to bring something to it and that idea about [SPEAKER_03]: blank page creation I think is what I'm getting at like like I don't know if you're even able to verbalize that malica like like like like what you see on the paper like how do you build this guy beyond that knowing that it's real but you know like you can how much do you put yourself in that I guess [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's kind of probably impossible to not put myself in it, you know what I mean?

17:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Like whether it's conscious or subconscious, there is something that I am going to bring to this that no one else can. [SPEAKER_00]: And I've learned to not run away from that, like to allow myself to be a vessel and all of my life experience, my perspective, my lens to influence, whatever all that I play, but that being said, this character isn't me, you know what I mean?

17:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And so as much as I [SPEAKER_00]: not just trying to put myself in his situation, but wondering, okay, what would life look like if I looked at it through this other lens, genolamine, as opposed to my perspective, and his lens, like, for example, I'm of Jamaican heritage, he's of Jamaican heritage.

18:16 [SPEAKER_00]: but he's Jamaican heritage exists in the 1800s. [SPEAKER_00]: My perspective of Jamaica is in 2025. [SPEAKER_00]: To know what I mean, I saw there's a different lens I'm looking at Jamaica from, even though it's the same place. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a different lens that I'm looking at these people from.

18:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it was a mixture of bringing myself into it, but also bringing a research into it, and they're historical. [SPEAKER_00]: context of the time, what was happening in the world, what life would have looked like, what music would have sounded like, all of those things influenced in his rhythm, his mannerisms.

18:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And I love, I love, I love every part of it, honestly. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: I love watching it. [SPEAKER_03]: And that, historical context, and I'll bring this up really quickly at the end here, Steven, because because [SPEAKER_03]: Am I wrong by thinking that we get hints that maybe this is all happening around the same time that Jack the Ripper is happening?

19:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Jack the Ripper is always begiling and problematic because there it stands and everybody knows that story and we made a conscious decision. [SPEAKER_01]: to be very care for about how we do that because I mean you don't want to put it forward as a sort of an attractive proposition that the someone going around killing women, you know, it's not, it's not, when you think about it for real, when you forget the legend and all of that and it's not something that we wanted to lean on but you can't avoid the fact that the stuff was going on [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, it's there and it's all part of London in the late 19th century with the fog and the crime and the allies and the urchins and you know you just get that thing of what London is and it's got a great energy you have to say and then when you're writing anything in that context you plug into it, why wouldn't you?

20:10 [SPEAKER_03]: love having that in the background there is some fan service that kind of happens with something like that you know and you know how it goes you read on Reddit like we're only waiting for those connections when you start bridging your series universes together I mean how does 1000 blows and peeking end up in the same universe and all of that stuff you know [SPEAKER_03]: You only need someone like Jack the Ripper to do that.

20:31 [SPEAKER_03]: I think is what I'm getting at. [SPEAKER_01]: That's, that's, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's, I mean, there's a time difference, obviously there's 40, there's difference. [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, there's no question that there's a feeling about both of those series that is similar.

20:47 [SPEAKER_03]: I, again, love what you do. [SPEAKER_03]: Let me be the 1,000th person to re-complement you both on everything. [SPEAKER_03]: I can't wait to see where this story continues to go. [SPEAKER_03]: So thank you so much to both of you for making it and being a part of it, and especially for taking the time to talk about it today.

21:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_03]: My thanks to Stephen and Malikai, a thousand blows, playing now on Disney+. [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks to you for checking out the episode, hit that subscribe button if you're not already, before you get out of here to get new interviews just like this one every single week, Spotify, Apple Podcast, NPR, WFPK.org, consequence, YouTube for the video versions or anywhere you get your podcast from, you can subscribe to Kyle Meredith with and please to give the series a rating and leave a review wherever you're listening from.

21:30 [SPEAKER_03]: After that, you can head over to www.fpk.org and that's where I do a show Monday through Friday starting at 6pm Eastern. [SPEAKER_03]: It's four hours of classics from the 80s and 90s. [SPEAKER_03]: You get the best in New Music and bonus interviews, lots of music news. [SPEAKER_03]: One of my recent shows featured some classics and favorites from Simon and Garfunkel, Bell X1, Primal Scream, Prens, The Smash and Pumpkins to Pesh Mode, Olivia Trimer Control, and [SPEAKER_03]: L.S.

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22:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Consequently, as your music and film news, you can also find me on any of the social media sites. [SPEAKER_03]: The rest is always at Kyle Mearn, please do like. [SPEAKER_03]: Follow along. [SPEAKER_03]: That does it for another edition. [SPEAKER_03]: I'm Kyle Mearn, I'll see you next time.

22:43 [SPEAKER_04]: Consequence podcast network it's easy to hear your favorite artist on WFPK from wherever you are listen on your smart speaker live stream from our website at WFPK dot org from Louisville public media