The Cast and Creators of Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed on Internet Paranoia, Bad Decisions, and Pleasure as Evidence

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[SPEAKER_08]: We've had some great guest drop, and by lately, in fact, Tom Cavanol was just here to discuss his role in your killing me. [SPEAKER_08]: Judith Light, she's starring in The Terror Devil in Silver, Camico Glenn. [SPEAKER_08]: You've seen an orange as a new black, she's a voice of a kip on the Disney channel.

[SPEAKER_08]: She's got new music out, Jack Antonov, lead singer of Bleachers, Maya Hawke, Courtney Barnett, Natalie Allenland, Paul Betney, Jenna Malone, Justin example of what you get when you subscribe to the Kyle Meredith with podcast. [SPEAKER_08]: And that's me Kyle here today. [SPEAKER_08]: We're going to be talking about the Apple TV series called maximum pleasure guaranteed with its cast Tatiana Maslani.

[SPEAKER_08]: Of course, you know her from Orphan Black. [SPEAKER_08]: She-Hulk attorney at Law of the Monkey. [SPEAKER_08]: Jake Johnson from a new girl, Spider-Man into this Spider-Verse Minks self-reliance. [SPEAKER_08]: Jessie Hodge, you've seen her in Barry, Brandon Flynn from 13 [SPEAKER_08]: as well as creator and showrunner David J. Rosen and director David Gordon Green.

[SPEAKER_08]: And let's read all about it here. [SPEAKER_08]: Maximum pleasure guaranteed follows newly divorced mom Paula played by Tatiana Maslani as she falls down a dangerous rabbit hole of blackmail, murder and youth soccer. [SPEAKER_08]: Convent she witnessed a crime while simultaneously struggling through a custody battle, and an identity crisis, Paula begins her own investigation.

[SPEAKER_08]: One that could unravel a greater conspiracy while also holding the keys to rebuilding her family and sense of self. [SPEAKER_08]: it is a show that starts with loneliness with cam boys and with custody battles. [SPEAKER_08]: We're going to be talking all about it with this cast and crew right here from from Paula's search for connection and the shows rear windows, style, internet, paranoia to true crime culture, sex work, villain logic and the very unfair math around.

[SPEAKER_08]: motherhood and desire it's it's murder it's blackmail it's it's bad choices a few jokes sharp enough to keep the whole thing from collapsing and and we're going to start with you know with with the guys who started a David Gordon Green in a David J. Rosen we're going to be talking about how a pandemic era obsession with with zoom an online loneliness turn this into this this this darkly funny thriller [SPEAKER_08]: They're gonna get into the visual inspirations behind the series Plus the challenge of making screen heavy storytelling actually feel cinematic and we'll get into the soundtrack as well I'm really good covers in this series as well So let's get into as part one as we talk about maximum pleasure guaranteed on Apple TV It's Kyle Meredith with David Gordon Green and David J. Rosen.

[SPEAKER_06]: Hey, how's it going? [SPEAKER_08]: Congrats on an outstanding series that I've seen once and immediately want to watch a second time to see what I've missed. [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, awesome. [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_08]: David J. Rosen, we'll start with you. [SPEAKER_08]: Where does this story come from?

[SPEAKER_06]: It comes from, you know, it's funny, it started during the pandemic when I was really examining what I could see in other people's Zoom rooms, you know, like the early days. [SPEAKER_06]: But later on, years later, I started thinking about this epidemic of loneliness that we're in and about a character of a single mom who, you know, was juggling 800 million different things.

[SPEAKER_06]: and just tried when finally home at night to reach out through the computer for a little bit of companionship, only to find yourself basically in our own modern day rear window. [SPEAKER_06]: That's kind of where it all started and I started going like this with my fingers and putting the words down.

[SPEAKER_08]: It comes at a time like the citizen sleuth has been happening over the past decade and everything. [SPEAKER_08]: I thought that was really interesting time. [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know if that was a part of it. [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, no, for sure. [SPEAKER_06]: I was, I, I've gone down the rabbit hole of Reddit threads where they're like, I can see this thing.

[SPEAKER_06]: It was only made in Tuscany and the forties. [SPEAKER_06]: It must be somewhere on Europe, you know, like, and they're trying to geolocate someone. [SPEAKER_06]: I love all that stuff. [SPEAKER_06]: So I did make me think a lot about it when I was doing those parts of the show. [SPEAKER_08]: David Gordon Green.

[SPEAKER_08]: I know we've come a long way from Sandra Bullock and the net and I don't know why I thought of that one, but I'm wondering like, you know, especially when you're talking about directing. [SPEAKER_08]: Like, do you think about styles? [SPEAKER_08]: Do you think about, do you find yourself doing comparisons?

[SPEAKER_04]: Interesting. [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, for this, to be honest, a lot of this was just his own distinctive experiment of how do we make something that is atmospheric, but propulsive, that is dramatic, but has a wit to it. [SPEAKER_04]: So we've got a lot of different ingredients. [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, from a camera standpoint, from a stylistic standpoint, me and our DP, our camera team would look at, um, [SPEAKER_04]: We look at a lot of Christophe Kieselowski movies.

[SPEAKER_04]: We would look at some very artful colorful one car-wise in the mood for love, try to find some some reference points that were pretty out there and then bring them into a New York apartment with a very domestic based [SPEAKER_04]: psychological thriller element to it so a little bit all over the place but just trying things to keep camera having some some curiosity of its own some energy sound design, atmosphere, music, these things are all firing on all cylinders to complement my pal here you know Apple in reading the scripts sort of challenges early on say there's a lot of things on screens here how are you going to make that interesting [SPEAKER_06]: And I think David really found a way to make it incredibly textural and interesting to look at all what it looks like when you're looking at a screen filming another screen and to film the people that are on the screen actually in another room on the screens or directing in multiple spaces.

[SPEAKER_06]: Although the show does not feel like a huge technological achievement in that way, you don't what you don't see is sort of this really interesting textural work to keep all [SPEAKER_08]: because it still has that four moment I'm going the whole time and that's really the great trick that you pulled off there.

[SPEAKER_08]: You mentioned that music too and I'll close with this because then we got to be a minute here, but the cover song, I feel I should have wrote them down but I feel like I'm hearing a lot of great cover songs in here, was that part of the plan specifically? [SPEAKER_06]: You know that was that that was something I think we learned along the way to Voiates our music supervisor brought in.

[SPEAKER_06]: We were really thinking a lot about Paula and what time period she would be stuck in like we're all stuck in with music and we really thinking about a very small moment of electroclash in like the early odds and and we danced around that obviously [SPEAKER_06]: in a lot of ways, but there were just a few, like, a few covers that we were like, man, this is this really, it brings a different mood and it's twisting what the original was, and that's kind of what we're trying to do as well.

[SPEAKER_06]: So it works together, uh, thematically. [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I'm nothing but compliments. [SPEAKER_08]: I love the show. [SPEAKER_08]: It cannot wait to see where the story goes, and thank you for both so much for taking the time to talk about it. [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you so much. [SPEAKER_06]: Take care.

[SPEAKER_08]: Hey, and we'll be right back right after this. [SPEAKER_08]: All right, welcome back. [SPEAKER_08]: It's Kyle Meredith talking about maximum pleasure guaranteed on Apple TV. [SPEAKER_08]: Now we'll turn to the series star Tatiana Mazzlani, she plays Paula this this newly divorced mom who's got this search for connection that spirals into murder investigations the online [SPEAKER_08]: Boyerism and plenty of a very questionable decisions.

[SPEAKER_08]: Tatiana and I are going to talk about wanting the character to feel emotionally volatile and unpredictable. [SPEAKER_08]: Well, here why she loved questioning Paula's choices while still committing to them. [SPEAKER_08]: You got to commit to the part and how the series flips expectations around motherhood and pleasure.

[SPEAKER_08]: And responsibility. [SPEAKER_08]: This is part two of us. [SPEAKER_08]: We talk about maximum pleasure guaranteed on Apple TV. [SPEAKER_08]: It's Kyle Meredith with Tatiana Maslani. [SPEAKER_01]: Hi. [SPEAKER_01]: How are you? [SPEAKER_07]: It's it's such a pleasure to meet you. [SPEAKER_08]: Especially after watching this, you played the hell out of this role.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: That's awesome. [SPEAKER_08]: Seriously. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's interesting because it's character, like, you know, she's smart. [SPEAKER_08]: She's narrow, but you do this great job, like she looks like she's exhausted and driven at the same time. [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_08]: That's probably an entire thing. [SPEAKER_08]: Like if you don't mind the general question, like, how did you want to play her? [SPEAKER_01]: That's like, that's a cool question. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I wanted to play her with all of the sort of, um, uh, [SPEAKER_01]: freedom that I could like I sort of felt like I didn't know where she landed.

[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know where she was at. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I wanted to have like a real breadth of emotional sort of volatility and unpredictability. [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's I think the word that I would use is like unpredictable. [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's like the way that Coral and Mallory see her [SPEAKER_01]: And the sort of shame of her is that she makes choices that aren't necessarily the most thought out.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I wanted to play with that idea of just like, she just goes, you know, goes for something. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, as an actor, like, you have to buy into that, right? [SPEAKER_08]: Like those choices that she makes, like, do you, do you find yourself questioning them? [SPEAKER_08]: Or are you just like, you're all in on that?

[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm for sure question. [SPEAKER_01]: I question all of it, and that's what I love about her [SPEAKER_01]: Why would she do that when she knows that she's supposed to stay like home and be responsible and she's like out like Adam murderers house at the hockey stick. [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's just so it's just such fun human behavior, you know, when I it's like so opposite to how I would react, I think, yeah, you think, right, that's the whole thing.

[SPEAKER_08]: Don't don't don't go up the stairs, right? [SPEAKER_08]: That's what we're all doing. [SPEAKER_08]: I feel like the open yets. [SPEAKER_08]: And yet you don't get a story. [SPEAKER_08]: If you don't go up the stairs, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Don't have a movie about you. [SPEAKER_01]: If you're not going to go up the stairs.

[SPEAKER_08]: Did you know how it would end? [SPEAKER_08]: And is that important to you going into it? [SPEAKER_01]: No, not really. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I did love the ending in terms of the sort of flip at the end when we find something more about Paula that we didn't know [SPEAKER_01]: turns our radar up a little bit about like, can we trust this person?

[SPEAKER_01]: And like, we've followed this person and empathize with them this whole season, but like, do we really know who that character is? [SPEAKER_01]: And like, what how much of it was her, you know, volitional choice to like, [SPEAKER_01]: do what she did and how much is an accident and how much is heartbreak and like what what's all firing there?

[SPEAKER_08]: I mean the puzzle pieces, the way they bring it together and the writing is so respectable. [SPEAKER_08]: Do you think does it get to say something about for you? [SPEAKER_08]: The show? [SPEAKER_08]: Does it get to say something about true crime? [SPEAKER_08]: Does it get to say something about sex working and the internet?

[SPEAKER_01]: The sort of expectations on somebody who's in, like Paul is like lost everything and she's like starting at zero. [SPEAKER_01]: She's like rebuilding her life and she's just also trying to pursue like some pleasure for herself. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think the sort of way that that pleasure gets like turned against her and that it somehow makes her, [SPEAKER_01]: on fit as a mother, as a person, or whatever it is, I think that is more something I'm curious about, sort of exploring through this.

[SPEAKER_01]: And just like what our expectations are on a mother, like verses on a father, how he's able to pursue his desire [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like everybody sort of has to go like, okay, well, that's what he and yeah, you're right to leave her. [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, no, it makes sense, you'd be with her.

[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, you should have the kid. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just like, but wait a minute. [SPEAKER_01]: And like, Paula's like, I'm just gonna have some fun with this camboy and everybody's like, you're terrible. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's just like an interesting, it's just an interesting dynamic.

[SPEAKER_08]: Yes, I get that. [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, I love the flip and everything. [SPEAKER_08]: And the whole series, I cannot wait to see where this story keeps going. [SPEAKER_08]: I loved it so much. [SPEAKER_08]: And seriously, thank you so much for taking the time to talk about it. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_08]: And now we'll turn it to Jake Johnson and Jesse Hodges, Jake's character plays the ex-husband of Tatiana's character and he's married to Jesse's character, so we're going to talk about the balancing act of making a thriller about Blackmail and murder and internet obsession somehow funny at the exact right moments.

[SPEAKER_08]: Something there is so good at, Jake's going to talk about being hooked by the scripts before he even realized he was judging it as a project and [SPEAKER_08]: without even knowing where the story would end. [SPEAKER_08]: We're also going to hit on true crime culture, comedic panic attacks, and the human centipede versus minions.

[SPEAKER_08]: Let's get into it. [SPEAKER_08]: Part three of Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed on Apple TV. [SPEAKER_08]: It's Kyle, Meredith with Jake Johnson and Jesse Hodges. [SPEAKER_03]: Good, who are you? [SPEAKER_03]: Hi. [SPEAKER_08]: pleasure to see you both congratulate you on a fantastic series that I certainly want to watch a second time to see what I missed.

[SPEAKER_08]: Jake, we'll start with you. [SPEAKER_08]: I was thinking it would be nice if we've come a long way from Sandra Bullock in the net, but it seems that we haven't. [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, remind me of that, we're not from this engine. [SPEAKER_08]: Sandra Bullock, you're in the net. [SPEAKER_08]: You don't remember the 90s movie, like the things you don't do on the internet, the dangerous thing.

[SPEAKER_05]: I think one of the things you do, right? [SPEAKER_08]: I'm gonna be kidding. [SPEAKER_03]: I heard a thought where I was like, what have I done with Sandra Bullock and the 90s? [SPEAKER_03]: It's no big place. [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe a bullock in the net. [SPEAKER_03]: No, it's like I know I've never worked with her.

[SPEAKER_08]: It was a poor choice to start off with the reference. [SPEAKER_08]: I see them now. [SPEAKER_08]: That's great. [SPEAKER_08]: A good choice. [SPEAKER_03]: You're going to be good morally. [SPEAKER_08]: But that's that, I guess that's it, you know, the lesser part of this question is like do you see the script?

[SPEAKER_08]: You read some of this. [SPEAKER_08]: Do you find that you come away with like, oh, I'm never getting on the internet again. [SPEAKER_03]: I would say a little bit, yes, I would say the show catfish did that for me as well. [SPEAKER_03]: Just be a little bit careful on the internet, everybody.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's a pretty basic rule. [SPEAKER_03]: But what got me on this one is when I started reading it, that opening scene was so fun and so well written. [SPEAKER_03]: that most say I'm reading for the first time you can say no and then you realize the projects now for you and it kept going and it kept going and then Carl stuff I really believed in and then the build and the mystery and when the pilot ended I started reading the second one without even thinking just out of curiosity I want to know what's going on and midway through the second one was when I realized like oh I haven't even judged this [SPEAKER_08]: Jesse, I'll bring you in on that as a jumping off point like how important is it for you to know the ending when you go into it like you want to know where it ends does it help you?

[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, I would love to, but that's not a luxury. [SPEAKER_03]: We're a part of it. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't know, and I was, especially on this one because I'm so into the material, I was so curious, and I did not know. [SPEAKER_02]: And, and yeah, I know nothing about the future either.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's, it's, it's really interesting in television. [SPEAKER_02]: How you like, you build a character as you get it. [SPEAKER_08]: Totally. [SPEAKER_08]: It's interesting to watch you all play that too, and the story that you're talking about, like do either one of you all get into true crime, because we're in such the citizen's sleuth era, you know?

[SPEAKER_02]: I get into it, but also it's so tricky, because it can feel obviously incredibly dark and exploitative, and [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and also like we're human and it's fast so fascinating and I'm so curious. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_08]: Jake, you're, you're kind of mentioning the fun of it.

[SPEAKER_08]: And there was a couple lines. [SPEAKER_08]: I had to ask about too because because you contain multitudes, right? [SPEAKER_08]: You're, you're, you're, you're great actors, but you're both funny people in the sort of serious roles. [SPEAKER_08]: And then you get lines like human centipede versus minions and all the police station stuff in the script or improv.

[SPEAKER_03]: That was in the script. [SPEAKER_08]: Really? [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. [SPEAKER_03]: So the police station was a half and a half, but a lot of the comedic lines in there were written in and I would ask David about it, Rosen, because I'd go, well, what do you want here? [SPEAKER_03]: Are you doing like a straight-up joke?

[SPEAKER_03]: Because the tone feels real and he would say there are moments of levity that are really important to me. [SPEAKER_03]: So like the police station sequence he said, I want the audience to relax here. [SPEAKER_03]: So when I first read that I took that as a more dramatic panic attack in a police station and then he said I'm let's let's have some fun and look at this.

[SPEAKER_03]: comedic panic attack. [SPEAKER_03]: But so it's really nice because he knew a lot of times directors or showrunners don't know. [SPEAKER_03]: And so you'll have a joke, but they'll try to get you delivered way too soon. [SPEAKER_03]: You're like, what are you making here? [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was nice about Rosen is he always knew what he wanted. [SPEAKER_03]: That's so true. [SPEAKER_03]: He really did. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, well that's the fun part about this being a dark comedy as they say and yeah, I really really loved it And I love seeing you guys in it and everything that you all do It's been a pleasure to talk to you today.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much. [SPEAKER_08]: I mean you and we'll be right back right after this [SPEAKER_08]: Welcome back, it's Kyle Mayer, now time to talk with Murray Bartlett's and Brandon Flynn. [SPEAKER_08]: You could say there are the two of the series's most manipulative figures. [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, Brandon's going to discuss talking with friends in the the sex work community and approaching his Camboy character as an actor performing intimacy for clients.

[SPEAKER_08]: While Murray gets to end to building a patient strategic operator who can ship personalities depending on what he needs, we'll talk about villain to see themselves as survivors in the appeal of morally messy characters and why the show's twists work best when nobody thinks they're the bad guy.

[SPEAKER_08]: It's part four of Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed on Apple TV. [SPEAKER_08]: It's Kyle Meredith with Murray Bartlett and Brandon Flynn. [SPEAKER_07]: Hi, how's it going? [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it's been a pleasure to watch you all in this show with this mad camper opera that you guys get to be in.

[SPEAKER_08]: It just play with these characters, which I don't brand and they are the worst. [SPEAKER_08]: Do they know that they're the worst? [SPEAKER_05]: No. [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think so. [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, for speaking for Trevor, he is guided by what he thinks he has to do to survive and to like get the things that he thinks he has a right to.

[SPEAKER_08]: That happens with a lot of times with, you know, villains if you want to see that, like they don't know they're the villain in a lot of stories, which is interesting, and Murray, your guy has a lot of patience, like what's the trick to playing him? [SPEAKER_07]: He, I think he's very strategic, and he is very methodical, and he knows he's got his eye on the prize of what he wants in each situation and just in general about, you know, protecting his kind of the life that he has and the business that he has and stuff.

[SPEAKER_07]: And he's willing to do whatever he needs to do to get to the goal or the goals. [SPEAKER_07]: And so that sometimes requires patience. [SPEAKER_07]: And so that's just part of it. [SPEAKER_07]: He sees it as, you know, I mean, it's to an end or thing. [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, he's methodical.

[SPEAKER_08]: It's again, it's fun to watch, you know, you kind of work that way through the through the whole story, and especially with everything that happens to him. [SPEAKER_08]: Braden, um, um, is there research or training that goes into being a can boy? [SPEAKER_08]: And if so, what would that be?

[SPEAKER_05]: Um, well, I like the idea of training. [SPEAKER_05]: Um, I mean, what kind of doing it now? [SPEAKER_03]: Jim, yeah, um, [SPEAKER_05]: I have friends who partake in sex work and have a career in sex work and I definitely reached out and asked questions and I mean for a lot of it I also knew that I wanted Trevor to be sort of the ultimate actor in this scenario, right, like he's [SPEAKER_05]: there is the script wasn't asking for us to see like this guy who's like pretending to be someone he like actually is that person for for Paula for all the other clients he he you know has and that to me was was really interesting and felt like um I don't know like a first year acting school exercise like we were just like baseline like coming in and responding.

[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, Mary, I don't know if it works this way, but like you take a show like welcome to chip and does like do you bring anything over from that? [SPEAKER_07]: Wow, I don't know, I hadn't thought of anything from, it feels like, I mean, I think there's probably some similar elements in terms of, you know, there's a thriller aspect to both.

[SPEAKER_07]: There's kind of like some dark stuff that happens, obviously. [SPEAKER_07]: But yeah, it feels very different to me. [SPEAKER_07]: I do like, you know, [SPEAKER_07]: Like most actors, like complicated characters that are written with their complexities and what I love about Dennis is that's really like, you know, to an extreme in a way that like he is almost like a multiple personality in the way that he morphs into different part sort of versions of himself to get what he wants.

[SPEAKER_07]: So, you know, I do like that and I guess look for that and a character that gets to [SPEAKER_07]: You get to reveal the character in all these different ways through all these different facets and this character is really, really, really written for that. [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it's a lot of fun.

[SPEAKER_08]: I really think you guys were taking the time to talk about it, so enjoy it. [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_07]: Good. [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks, man. [SPEAKER_07]: Good talking to you. [SPEAKER_08]: And there you go. [SPEAKER_08]: Thanks to Murray Bartlett, Brandon Flynn, Jake Johnson, Jesse Hodges, Tatty Anamaz, Lonnie David Gordon Green and David J. Rosen, maximum pleasure guaranteed is out now on Apple TV.

[SPEAKER_08]: Thanks to you for checking out the episode. [SPEAKER_08]: Please do hit that subscribe button before you're not here to keep up with all the interviews that I put out every single week. [SPEAKER_08]: You can find us at Spotify, Apple Podcast, NPR, WFPK.org at Consequence. [SPEAKER_08]: YouTube for the video versions or again anywhere you get your podcast from you can subscribe to Kyle Meredith with Please give the series a rating leave a review where every listing from after that You're gonna head over to wfpk dot org where I do a show Monday through Friday starting six-peel measter It's four hours of classic alternative new Indian Americana You get the best in new music there bonus interviews lots of music and film news as well

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The Cast and Creators of Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed on Internet Paranoia, Bad Decisions, and Pleasure as Evidence

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