Theo Rossi on Come With Me, the Indie-Film Boom, and Refusing to Be Typecast

0:00 [SPEAKER_00]: It's easy to hear your favorite artist on WFPK from wherever you are. [SPEAKER_00]: Listen on your smart speaker, live stream from our website at WFPK.org from Louisville Public Media. [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to another edition of Kyle Meredith with it's the interview series presented by WFPK and WFPK.org Consequence and the Consequence podcast network.

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0:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Subscribe to Kyle Meredith with, please do give this series a rating, leave a review wherever you're listening or watching from. [SPEAKER_02]: We've had some great guests drop him by lately, hung out with modern English and Paul Cook from the Sex Pistols. [SPEAKER_02]: Peaches was here, she's got her first record and like a decade called No Loop, so rude, super chunk, dead milkman, David Duss Malchian.

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1:34 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's me Kyle Meredith today catching up with Theo Rossi who you of course know from such shows as sons of Anarchy last time we caught up we were talking about the movie Emily the criminal he's back with a film called Come With Me a film about a working class man named Simon Simon Ward who falls under the spell of a rhetoric spewing radio host played by Ron Perlman and we watch as his character as his life just slowly unravels around him.

2:02 [SPEAKER_02]: enduring as as he will say kind of a death by a thousand cuts. [SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk about why the film was built to let audiences wrestle with whether he's a victim or villain rather than you know Hannah and him the answer and we'll also talk about how how we may be living through a new golden age of an independent film [SPEAKER_02]: Theo's going to explain why actors can't afford to just be an actor anymore.

2:25 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk about him taking troll over his career through producing, including the upcoming the Saviors and his first rom-com made of dishonor with Emily Hampshire, who we're always big fans of. [SPEAKER_02]: We're also going to talk about Prince, the thing, and the Highlander, and everything else in between.

2:40 [SPEAKER_02]: So let's get into it and discuss this film come with me, it's Kyle Meredith with Theo Rossi. [SPEAKER_01]: How are you? [SPEAKER_01]: How's everything? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing well. [SPEAKER_01]: How are you doing? [SPEAKER_01]: Again, I really do love that. [SPEAKER_01]: Look at that. [SPEAKER_01]: This stuff right here?

2:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I just love it. [SPEAKER_02]: It does all the heavy lifting for me every time. [SPEAKER_01]: It really does. [SPEAKER_01]: Especially the Prince one because that's like such an iconic cover. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just my kid, my boys are really loving Prince now. [SPEAKER_01]: So every time I pull it up.

3:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that moment when they when they first find those, you know, those aren't as especially like friends. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but we all of them. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: But it just shows you how time when it is because certain stuff when they hear it, it's like certain movies, kids are like the ultimate judge because they don't, they have no ability to not call horseshit on it.

3:23 [SPEAKER_01]: So when they love it, they love it. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was talking with someone recently about that. [SPEAKER_02]: It songs like, like, they're undeniably the greatest songs of all time because that, like, you know, I was like, we were talking specifically. [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was like, maybe Elton John's Rocket Man.

3:38 [SPEAKER_02]: And you have these kids in every time. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, I don't know when forces Rocket Man on any, you don't have to do that. [SPEAKER_02]: They just find it. [SPEAKER_02]: And they're like, I love this song. [SPEAKER_01]: And then they know every word. [SPEAKER_01]: So the thing with, like, what I saw in Prince where it's like purple rain, little red Corvette, you know, whatever it is, [SPEAKER_01]: ingested in a way where they hear them singing it, even if they've only heard it a few times.

4:01 [SPEAKER_01]: So it is something in it and it's the same with films like the way they sit forward watching Goonies stand by me or monster squad as opposed to maybe like something new and animated. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's really interesting how and I'm not saying it because we're 80s, 90s, whatever but the media we ingested.

4:19 [SPEAKER_01]: it's resonating different even now as opposed to the way it is. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's fascinating. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the movie's things like you always know like we already know E.T. [SPEAKER_02]: is minted, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe the greatest movie of all time. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I've tried to do sort of the opposite like their movies that I really loved when I was young where I thought I wonder if this is a good movie.

4:38 [SPEAKER_02]: So like the other day I showed my son he's almost 19 now. [SPEAKER_02]: I showed him the highlander. [SPEAKER_02]: It was like, I just loved the highlander because my dad showed it to me when I was young and I was like, but I wonder if this is actually a good movie and he comes at the interview.

4:52 [SPEAKER_01]: He was like, yeah, it's pretty good. [SPEAKER_01]: That's pretty good. [SPEAKER_01]: Not great. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's that's fair, not great. [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to come to a common come with me and Christopher Lambert, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Is supposed to be there. [SPEAKER_01]: I know he had recently fell ill on something, but he's been in a few lately and I was like, they got to watch it before they go, but again, they watch the thing the other day, [SPEAKER_01]: And they were blown away like fast movie ever they were like this is the greatest movie ever And I was like love that happens.

5:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, just that you get to share that stuff Man, it is seriously so good to talk to you too, and um, because I was thinking like the last time that we talked of course Emily Emily the criminal And it seems like now looking back like what a pivot point that has been for your careers is that is that a fair assessment [SPEAKER_01]: That's a great question.

5:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's been a couple of pivot points, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Each one is a different version of a pivot point. [SPEAKER_01]: Meaning like, sons was the pivot point where, oh, now everyone's going, because it was such a massive show of sons of anarchy that it was like, now the streets know who you are.

6:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Like you, you know, now everyone knows you as in, you know, wherever you go, you're going to see someone that knows that show. [SPEAKER_01]: But it wasn't an industry show, like it was a street show. [SPEAKER_01]: I call it like we had the streets. [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't have the bureaucracy, like the business side.

6:17 [SPEAKER_01]: And then Emily somehow was the business side, but not necessarily the streets, right? [SPEAKER_01]: It had the critics, it had the whole business loved it. [SPEAKER_01]: And I was getting all these like insider calls, like the calls coming from inside the house. [SPEAKER_01]: And it was, and that, [SPEAKER_01]: became like the critical success.

6:36 [SPEAKER_01]: So those were two big pivot points. [SPEAKER_01]: And then obviously it is all the genre pivot points. [SPEAKER_01]: But Emily was more of the industry inside one that changed things critically for me. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And it's because, you know, we've seen something as we was like, so one of the movies we're going to be talking about today.

6:51 [SPEAKER_02]: I come with me like feels like it sort of falls not only in the lineage of where that one took off. [SPEAKER_02]: But also just this side of independent filmmaking [SPEAKER_02]: This part of the industry head on, which is, I mean, I've been talking about a lot in my interviews that, you know, are we going to look back at this moment and see this is one of those golden ages of independent film because it's starting to feel like that.

7:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if it is from the inside. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, very much. [SPEAKER_01]: I think in hindsight. [SPEAKER_01]: hindsight, it's always 2020 right, they say that, but I think this could become, I we might not realize we're in like the new Hollywood 70s thing right now that was going on with Scorsese and everybody kind of changing things, you know, de Palmer and everybody, I think we might be in it and not know it.

7:41 [SPEAKER_01]: with the, you know, with all the young filmmakers that are doing it independently, and then, you know, of course, translating into the studio thing like Zach Kriger and, you know, what's going on with obsession and backward, we know all that, but then there's films like the producers of Emily have buddy out right now that's really doing incredible numbers.

7:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And yes, those are genre specific. [SPEAKER_01]: But that opens the doors to things like come with me, where, okay, we got you there. [SPEAKER_01]: We're putting you back in the theater, but now, by the way, there's also stories like the Kramer versus Kramer and the big chill stuff and the stuff that's going to rat out your cage a little, so we're going to sneak those in.

8:18 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that, uh, I think everything when it gets so big and become so. [SPEAKER_01]: almost unattainable to the regular person, sentiment became, a lot of became so big, because Hollywood's like the last to find out. [SPEAKER_01]: They're the last to find the trend and then they bastardize it in every way.

8:41 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that we might look back at this as the beginning of a really fun kind of independent thing and I produced my first movie in 2014. [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, Emily, we made for nothing. [SPEAKER_01]: We thought we were going to get shut down every day. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like that on every independent film, but they turn out to be the ones that last.

9:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Like the films and albums behind you and the films we talk about. [SPEAKER_01]: They're the ones that last 30 years from now, 20 years from now. [SPEAKER_02]: All right. [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to take a quick pause. [SPEAKER_02]: If you like what you're hearing right now, please, please, please do hit that subscribe button.

9:15 [SPEAKER_02]: It helps more than you think. [SPEAKER_02]: And we'll be right back right after this. [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back. [SPEAKER_02]: It's Kyle Meredith with Theo Rossi. [SPEAKER_02]: So even knowing that you've been like you said producing for a while now, but like, but like, how has it changed your job these past few years?

9:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's you have to do everything. [SPEAKER_01]: There isn't that you can't just be an actor anymore. [SPEAKER_01]: That's over with. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, because with all the tools you have at your disposal, the business [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't work like that anymore. [SPEAKER_01]: And if you're coming in to just be an actor, there might be legacy actors that can do that, right?

9:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Because they're making a certain thing. [SPEAKER_01]: They have their book for the last next five years and they have everything. [SPEAKER_01]: But... [SPEAKER_01]: actors who are working actors, people who have a certain, you know, they've been around I've been doing this for a long time now, like well over 20 years and I've been fortunate enough to, I've always wanted to take more control because my thought is like no one knows anything.

10:13 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, everybody, nobody's an expert especially in an art form, like nobody knows anything because it's changing all the time. [SPEAKER_01]: So you have to take as much control, you're going to make [SPEAKER_01]: everything, right? [SPEAKER_01]: I have to find the project. [SPEAKER_01]: I got to, you know, go out raise the money.

10:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I got to bring in the actors. [SPEAKER_01]: I got to do this and I'm doing that with a really incredible group of people. [SPEAKER_01]: And we have another film right now that's at Old Emburg. [SPEAKER_01]: We were just at Laura Cano with that Britain. [SPEAKER_01]: And we want to do movies that we like.

10:43 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't mean we're not doing genre ones. [SPEAKER_01]: We have a couple of genres coming up. [SPEAKER_01]: We just love [SPEAKER_01]: Real stories. [SPEAKER_01]: We love what we call replacement theory where you can watch and go, what if I was Simon? [SPEAKER_01]: What would I do? [SPEAKER_01]: Or do I know Simon?

10:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Or is my brother and Law Simon? [SPEAKER_01]: Or is it like we like things that we that you can put yourself in because those are our favorite films? [SPEAKER_01]: Not that we don't like the fantastical nature. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just we need to have a balance of that. [SPEAKER_02]: because it's not like, it's spoonful of sugar.

11:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Like these movies aren't a spoonful of sugar movies. [SPEAKER_02]: Like these are challenging in a lot of ways. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you know, watching your this guy and come with me is uncomfortable. [SPEAKER_02]: Like I'm uncomfortable, but then I sit with it for hours after that film.

11:27 [SPEAKER_02]: When I've long left the room, you know, and I'm walking around and it's still rattling in my head, you know, and like it to your point. [SPEAKER_02]: like these albums like that is that that other ones at state you find yourself watching them again later on you know coming back to it's because that you know that I was thinking about that like like movies are escapism it's not exactly always true you know [SPEAKER_01]: Sure, escapism from escapism but also conversation starters, that would be like saying a painting is escapism I don't want to look at a painting not to think I don't want to listen to a song not to think you know we might all interpret songs different ways because they impacted us at a certain time in our life

12:08 [SPEAKER_01]: that they mean something different, and I feel that should be the same thing with film, film is a combination of both those art forms, it's taking music and paintings and putting it into, you know, moving images with sound. [SPEAKER_01]: So for me, I need to, I want to go back in the day we'd go to dinner or what I call the parking lot walk and we'd be like, would you think, would you think?

12:28 [SPEAKER_01]: So if I'm just getting a diet of empty brain food, it's just, it was [SPEAKER_01]: Look cool. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, right, it was fine, and then you go on and you go to your phone. [SPEAKER_01]: And it was fine, but there's no conversation behind it where the stuff that I love even to this day, it always has a conversation behind it.

12:52 [SPEAKER_01]: whether it be something about life or with the way it made me feel I watched the film recently called Train Dreams and I was like, so that was my favorite movie of that year of last year. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it really struck like to a point I was like, I had a right to director. [SPEAKER_01]: I've never done this.

13:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I was on a plane and I was writing the director. [SPEAKER_01]: I've never met him and he wrote me right back before I landed. [SPEAKER_01]: I was just like, I'm so moved by this movie. [SPEAKER_01]: because it was so patient and so, and it reminded me, you know what we were trying to do.

13:20 [SPEAKER_01]: It would come with me where you've got to like sit in it. [SPEAKER_01]: You have to live in it. [SPEAKER_01]: You have to question yourself. [SPEAKER_01]: So the intoxication I felt from that film reminded me of why I love this. [SPEAKER_01]: medium, why I love this form of art. [SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, I have to continue, no matter what to make films like that, because I want people to have dinner conversations.

13:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I want them to go, what do you think? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I thought that he's a victim. [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's a villain. [SPEAKER_01]: What I think that he was wrong, and I think he's in control. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think the media was really messing with him and anybody can do, I want those conversations.

13:55 [SPEAKER_02]: And especially right now, I mean, that's, which by the way, I only to back up on the train rooms. [SPEAKER_02]: I watched it one night because I was doing research for interviews. [SPEAKER_02]: I woke up the next morning. [SPEAKER_02]: I grabbed my wife and I said, we have to watch this immediately again.

14:08 [SPEAKER_02]: That's those movies right there. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, it's where you just, and you can find, yeah, it's, it's, that movie was mess around. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but that's, too, so yeah, further down this, this movie right now, because you're [SPEAKER_02]: is he the victim is, he the villain.

14:25 [SPEAKER_02]: All of that, you know, the radio host, Ron Perlman, you know, is coming from someone who works in radio, you know, throughout the rest of my job and all of that. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, so let's back up a little bit. [SPEAKER_02]: How does this movie arrive to you? [SPEAKER_02]: And what was it that you said?

14:43 [SPEAKER_02]: I gotta tell this story right now because we are seeing this movie, regardless of what entrance point you might come in on. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that's a great question. [SPEAKER_01]: So here's so it's really funny because we go back to Emily because that's where you and I started. [SPEAKER_01]: So when Emily was being done, we were like, man, we really got to get this out because of the student loan crisis.

15:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, this is really timely. [SPEAKER_01]: Cut to the movie can come out today. [SPEAKER_01]: It'd be the same thing, right? [SPEAKER_01]: It could have came out 10 years before be the same thing. [SPEAKER_01]: So when this came to me, my producing partner on it to meet you is was like, [SPEAKER_01]: but you have to read the script.

15:17 [SPEAKER_01]: He's like it's so incredibly timely and we love movies like kings of comedy and taxi driver and falling down and like all these things of like not kind of understanding how something occurs but it just occurs and you see it in the news but you don't know the behind the scenes the genesis of it or what I would say the prequel of the action.

15:37 [SPEAKER_01]: So he sent it to me and I was like whoa, I was like this is this is going to wrap up some cages. [SPEAKER_01]: make people. [SPEAKER_01]: I said, I don't know if people are going to want to, I don't know if anybody's going to want to make this. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my thought. [SPEAKER_01]: So we tried and people responded to it.

15:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And our whole thing was we were showing a slice of life, like not just the new story, but how did we get to the new story? [SPEAKER_01]: So when the new story comes on on the 11 o'clock news at five o'clock news and it says [SPEAKER_01]: what led up to that because it's not just that the person in certain cases, like we're saying with these other films, taxi driver and a lot of them, the person did have issues going on inside of them.

16:27 [SPEAKER_01]: But Simon's just a guy who's got a girl and he's engaged and he goes to work and he's got a best friend. [SPEAKER_01]: What is those little death by a thousand cuts that leads into this? [SPEAKER_01]: So when I read that, I said, I have to tell this story. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if anyone will ever watch it.

16:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it'll make people uncomfortable. [SPEAKER_01]: I know people are gonna claim. [SPEAKER_01]: Every side's gonna think it's about this and it's about that and everybody's gonna feel, they're gonna claim their tribe and they're gonna say it's this. [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, great, because that's what I want.

17:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I want people to argue over it. [SPEAKER_01]: I want people to have an issue with it because that means they feel something. [SPEAKER_01]: So I've always said this, when I play characters, I want you to love me or hate me. [SPEAKER_01]: Don't just be like, yeah, you're good. [SPEAKER_01]: Love me or hate me.

17:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, right, you're fine. [SPEAKER_01]: You're fine. [SPEAKER_01]: Don't ever be fine. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So when you go into the character, do you find yourself choosing inside or do you automatically have to separate yourself from any of that? [SPEAKER_02]: For a second.

17:30 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm in specifically. [SPEAKER_01]: yeah fully fully separate i'm just being this guy who has no heat what's so interesting about him it's he's a lost boy he's Peter Pan you know he's he's a lost boy he's just looking for a leader so he's just lost like most people today he's just floating [SPEAKER_01]: we're so numb because of like we're just numb.

17:52 [SPEAKER_01]: We just want to go sit on our phone. [SPEAKER_01]: Like just let us be, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Let me just be and we're numb. [SPEAKER_01]: And then within a few minutes on the phone we laugh, we cry, we get sad, we watch, you know, we watch someone give $10,000 to a homeless guy and then we watch a 16 year old dog get rescued and we go through all these emotions.

18:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Just leave me with this roller coaster of emotions and then I exhaust myself and then I participate in life for a minute and then I go back to the You know that's kind of the cycle of where we're at and when I looked at him, I was just like this is a guy who is trying so desperately to find something to believe in to be part of something to just be okay [SPEAKER_01]: And his mind is just hit with something that he starts to gravitate towards like many people, it's just going on.

18:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll meet someone and they'll be like, oh man, you gotta do it or whatever, I'm not knocking any specific companies, but they'll be like, you gotta start doing biking classes, like the biking classes, the changing my life, you gotta do it and I'm like, all right, come on down, let's go on biking class.

18:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I see them again and it's like, oh no, I'm not doing that now. [SPEAKER_01]: Now I'm running ultra-arethons. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like there's always something [SPEAKER_01]: that they're trying to, that they're so passionate about because it's taking them because the algorithm feeds our belief system.

19:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So in the case of Dalton Kirby played by the great-round problem with that voice. [SPEAKER_01]: He's this order that's just seducing him. [SPEAKER_01]: And now, while that's happening, so you got this initiator, and then in this year, there's stuff going on with fiancee. [SPEAKER_01]: She wants to do it.

19:30 [SPEAKER_01]: There's obviously problems with this best friend. [SPEAKER_01]: There's this coming on with healthcare. [SPEAKER_01]: There's this coming on with this job. [SPEAKER_01]: And again, it's death by a thousand cuts. [SPEAKER_01]: We're now this starts to make a lot more sense. [SPEAKER_01]: when all these actions come.

19:44 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's what really to me when I was playing him, I'm not based in anything. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just living in the present moment of every single second. [SPEAKER_01]: What I said with Simon is he has no thoughts except what's happening in the moment. [SPEAKER_01]: what it is. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and just to watch that happen too, because I'm only echoing you here, to see all of these things of how you end up in this situation, how people, every day end up in this situation, you know, Ron Conner, Pearlman, it could be a dozen different guys, you know, a while I grew up or you know, Rush Limbaugh was on the radio, you know, all of those, [SPEAKER_02]: Harvey.

20:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Could be anyone. [SPEAKER_01]: Could be. [SPEAKER_01]: How would Stern say? [SPEAKER_01]: It could be anybody. [SPEAKER_02]: And it's just the way, as you said, it just gets in there and rolls around. [SPEAKER_02]: And when you have all of this stuff watching you unravel through this movie was incredible.

20:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Because every single moment made sense. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, there was never a suspension of disbelief, or we got to get like at watching like every single time is like, that's exactly what would happen right there. [SPEAKER_02]: Like what did you have to go through emotionally then to get to that point because by the end of it, man, the looking your eye, it says it does all the work.

21:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, I always say the eyes never lie like if you build into it because you never shoot a film in order It's always out of order when especially when you're doing independent films in like 20 days you shoot these things So I had a board set up in the makeup trailer [SPEAKER_01]: It's separated into three sections, and it was for makeup and eye and hair and eye, but also for me where we would say where he was he's he's in a good place in the beginning and then we'd put all the scenes that were there in that where he's on he's doing okay up until like something happens and then we would call it that he was falling.

21:40 [SPEAKER_01]: and then it would be fallen like he's gone. [SPEAKER_01]: And those three sections, so whatever scene we were shooting, we would adjust the makeup, like the blackness under his eyes, the way his hair was messed up, and then it would, I would change kind of the way I walked or how I felt, and then things would come in that where he's screaming into the towel because he can't [SPEAKER_01]: He can't figure out a way to release this thing that he has inside of him, this tension that is so built up in him, and then it would pop, just a little like he'd let the steam out, I would always say, it would come out, and it would come out through working out or it'd come out in a section, and then he'd put it back, or when he's in the radio station and he's talking to the guy, and then he'd put it back.

22:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And then he just gets to the point where Boyle's over and he just can't put it back anymore. [SPEAKER_01]: And when we were doing that scene, there's a scene where he's driving to the station. [SPEAKER_01]: I, it came up in the moment, but it was like he's trying to, it sounds weird. [SPEAKER_01]: It's trying to eat himself.

22:40 [SPEAKER_01]: He's trying to, [SPEAKER_01]: like get rid of himself before he goes through or wherever he's going to do. [SPEAKER_01]: And I just found it where it was just a step of like each step is a little further down the hill until he's sliding. [SPEAKER_01]: He can't keep a footing anymore. [SPEAKER_02]: Do you know every role is different?

23:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you get to kind of attack every role with this kind of drive, I guess, with this kind of creativity? [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I always have a certain, my process adapts to the situation. [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, if you're on a hundred million dollar movie or a million dollar movie, the things are different, right?

23:17 [SPEAKER_01]: You have a lot more cracks, right? [SPEAKER_01]: This one you might have three takes to get it, and another one you might have 50. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, so you kind of get it by just process of elimination on the other ones. [SPEAKER_01]: It all changes towards each situation. [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, each character is different.

23:36 [SPEAKER_01]: But no, I keep notebooks for every one of them. [SPEAKER_01]: I always have secrets. [SPEAKER_01]: I always have ways. [SPEAKER_01]: It all depends on who you're opposite on. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, who's taken up all the air in the room, who's, you know, it all, you adjust, right? [SPEAKER_01]: In these, I'm fortunate where, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: I'm such a big part of the process producing and getting everything together that I get to you know that's I bring all my friends on Ron and I have been in like four or five projects together Ronnie Jean who plays Gary and it you know we and him and I have done like five movies like I like to bring my friends along so you know and the people I work with a lot so we can do it our way and our way is very communal it's very like

24:18 [SPEAKER_01]: it's such a team sport and somewhere along the line I think in the 80s or whenever it was when actors started getting like 20 million it became like a solo sport and we're a team sport kind of group so everybody's involved and it's like how can I help camera and how can I help make up and how can we because if we're all doing our job we get the product we want so [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's, so each role is different.

24:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And when I'm on certain films, it's not like that. [SPEAKER_01]: So I have to adjust my way of doing things. [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll just go whatever you need boss, like whatever it is on certain things. [SPEAKER_01]: And I hope that I'm doing it right. [SPEAKER_01]: And if not, they'll tell me.

24:54 [SPEAKER_02]: All right. [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to take a quick pause. [SPEAKER_02]: If you like what you're hearing right now, please, please, please do hit that subscribe button. [SPEAKER_02]: And it helps more than you think. [SPEAKER_02]: And we'll be right back right after this. [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back.

25:06 [SPEAKER_02]: It's Kyle Meredith with Theo Rossi. [SPEAKER_02]: So I also remember though with this one, doing the reading and everything, I think I came across something where you gave the script to different, what was it? [SPEAKER_02]: You gave the script to military veterans and people with different politics.

25:22 [SPEAKER_02]: So what did you hope to gain from that? [SPEAKER_02]: And then, you know, like, what did you end up getting from it? [SPEAKER_01]: It's funny. [SPEAKER_01]: It's really interesting. [SPEAKER_01]: I got all different things across the spectrum and that's how I knew we did something right.

25:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I got this movie is really against guns. [SPEAKER_01]: That was the first one. [SPEAKER_01]: Then I got this movie is really pro gone. [SPEAKER_01]: Then I got this movie is really conservative. [SPEAKER_01]: It's really, you know, saying something about the manufacturing conservative, you know, out.

25:54 [SPEAKER_01]: This movie is really taking a dump on conservatives and taking it so I was like, okay, all right, so this is great, and what was the new one that came was, [SPEAKER_01]: not was a toxic masculinity. [SPEAKER_01]: This is a real examination on toxic masculinity. [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, Simon's like the least toxic male of anyone on the planet.

26:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Like maybe give that to Gary for a minute in the beginning, but not Simon. [SPEAKER_01]: Simon's like, just trying to hold it together. [SPEAKER_01]: So, and then there was, there was the in cell one came up, like there's an in cell. [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, he's got a fiance, like he's, no, that's actually a wrong definition of, [SPEAKER_01]: The fact that those buzzwords were attached to it is where I really came up, where wait a second, is Simon and Victor Moore of England here, how was he being painted?

26:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So what I loved and this is, and I've been fortunate to be a part of many of these was they felt something. [SPEAKER_01]: They had an opinion. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that when you have an opinion, it makes you think. [SPEAKER_01]: Because I've been, I've been part of things where people don't have an opinion [SPEAKER_01]: Cool, great, but I've had ones where they go, I hate that guy, or I love that guy, or I feel really bad for that guy.

27:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And my whole thought is you felt something. [SPEAKER_01]: So giving it to all these different people and now seeing the response from different people, I think it's great, because I don't have an opinion on it. [SPEAKER_01]: My opinion is that Simon probably should have talked to somebody.

27:30 [SPEAKER_01]: He probably should have talked to his boss [SPEAKER_01]: He probably should have, he didn't have a friend that anymore around. [SPEAKER_01]: And it showed me the importance of communication. [SPEAKER_01]: And it showed me that in this algorithmic society, where you're a beliefs of reconfirmed, even if they might be a little off or dare I say toxic, you really need to go outside your bubble for a minute.

27:56 [SPEAKER_01]: even if you don't want to hear it, you need to hear it because it might plan to see it and you might go, oh, maybe they're right. [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe, and then it might cause you to do your own research which will open up this algorithm to other things that will come in. [SPEAKER_01]: Because confirmation bias is a tough thing that's going on right now.

28:17 [SPEAKER_02]: That's true. [SPEAKER_02]: It is funny. [SPEAKER_02]: All of that you said, [SPEAKER_02]: because I didn't read anything before I went into the movie. [SPEAKER_02]: I typically do that anyway. [SPEAKER_02]: I kind of went to a blind, I didn't know anything about it. [SPEAKER_02]: Every one of those things were part of my notes until 20 minutes later when I erased that.

28:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, talk sick masculinity was there at the beginning. [SPEAKER_02]: This is not a toxic masculinity movie. [SPEAKER_02]: Like all of that, taxi driver is where I wrote down right at the end of it. [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't even know about that part of it. [SPEAKER_02]: It's so funny. [SPEAKER_02]: Again, you know, to complete props to you all of painting the journey that you did, how it does take you through all of those trips.

28:54 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, in me, it's like, listen to this, my series enough times, like I'm going to left, you know, but I'm also in Kentucky, you know, I'm in Louisville, so I'm a blue dot red state, you know, yeah, it's like most of my family is very conservative, you know, in these conversations, it is right, you know, I don't get the luxury of being in the bubble [SPEAKER_02]: the bubble isn't very big around here.

29:18 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right. [SPEAKER_01]: And again, even if you're your phone and the thing you operate in, your computer, your MacBook is coming back at you with that, you're in a spot where your daily interactions might be the other or might be, you know, and that again just opens you up. [SPEAKER_01]: Again, whether you agree or not, [SPEAKER_01]: it's the fact see I'm in an art form where I can't I have no I can't be my feet can't be in concrete on anything because I've decided a long time ago to be a court jester so I have to be able to understand everyone so I because I have to be able to play them so I have to be able to make you know [SPEAKER_01]: to rationalize with a serial killer in my mind, right?

29:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I have to rationalize with everyone because if I go in judging them I'm not going to be able to do my job. [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe when I get out of this job, I'll have opinions But as of this present moment, I can't because I have to play certain things. [SPEAKER_01]: So like a Simon when I go in I just go He's just a guy.

30:16 [SPEAKER_01]: So I go, okay, who is he? [SPEAKER_01]: He works really hard. [SPEAKER_01]: He really wants to do better [SPEAKER_01]: He loves this girl, but he's confused because he's a little nervous, and he loves his buddy, he's nervous about his daughter, so he's just in fear, and most people I meet on my daily life are in fear about something.

30:37 [SPEAKER_01]: not being enough, not accomplishing their goals, not getting to where they want to be, getting to old before they do things, getting, you know, hoping they raise their kids right, hoping they're living in the right place, hoping they're making enough money. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just a fear-based thing.

30:51 [SPEAKER_01]: So I sit there always as the provider on the outside. [SPEAKER_01]: I just watch people all day, because I have to do that for the job of chosen to do. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I hope with Simon, when you look at him, you just feel these a real person. [SPEAKER_01]: So the only comment I would hear is people go, [SPEAKER_01]: Man, it's a really slow burn.

31:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I go, it should be because that's what this is, a slow burn up until the explosion. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what makes it a horror movie because it's a slow burn till it blows up and you might be around a lot of slow burns and not even know it. [SPEAKER_01]: that's the horror. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah man that's really well said too.

31:30 [SPEAKER_02]: And of course without spoilers everything but the cyclical style of ending that you know we're left with. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, keys. [SPEAKER_01]: Chips kiss. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's uh. [UNKNOWN]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, it's so good. [SPEAKER_02]: You got more on the way. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, uh, the saviors.

31:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's going to really. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: No, you have it. [SPEAKER_01]: Wait. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no, I have it. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's that. [SPEAKER_02]: No, I do have the screen around. [SPEAKER_01]: Scott produced that. [SPEAKER_01]: You got to watch that.

32:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: I've got that. [SPEAKER_01]: conversation fees. [SPEAKER_01]: That's a deep conversation. [SPEAKER_02]: I hope we get to do that. [SPEAKER_02]: So that's actually going to be like public public will do our next year. [SPEAKER_01]: March. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, March. [SPEAKER_02]: So we'll come back around on that one.

32:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I can't wait to hear your thoughts on that. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we'll get back to that on the other side though, made of dishonor. [SPEAKER_02]: Emily Emily hamsters been on the show a bunch of times too. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, like that's a whole different thing for you, right?

32:27 [SPEAKER_01]: First time. [SPEAKER_01]: So I started off it's so wild. [SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: Again, the business has the imagination of a shoe insert. [SPEAKER_01]: I started off as, when I first got in, I was doing like sitcom stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: Like I had a few sitcoms that were pilots and never got picked up.

32:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And I would, you know, test for all these sitcoms. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's where I thought I was going in the business. [SPEAKER_01]: And then you start to get, you want to work, so things start to change. [SPEAKER_01]: I remember shaving my head and I started doing all these guest stars as the criminal.

32:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I was always the guy on the other side of the table where they were like, you did it. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I didn't do anything. [SPEAKER_01]: You did all right. [SPEAKER_01]: I did it. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and you're the guy, right? [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like you're doing like without a trace and long order and my PD blue and you're that guy.

33:10 [SPEAKER_01]: And then along those lines, [SPEAKER_01]: morally gray kind of bad guy maybe in a way, but I mean, he really wasn't if you watch the show. [SPEAKER_01]: But the business easier is bad guys. [SPEAKER_01]: Then you start playing villains. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what you play because that's how they see you.

33:27 [SPEAKER_01]: And unless you take your own like I've done with the movies I've made, you have to take yourself and go, no, I'm not doing that. [SPEAKER_01]: I have to play other things, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So when it came to maybe dishonor when that came to us, [SPEAKER_01]: Um, because I'm a producer on that as well.

33:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, vis-a-rong calm. [SPEAKER_01]: This is what I want to do. [SPEAKER_01]: This is what I've always wanted to do. [SPEAKER_01]: Emily's one of the greatest and everyone else in that cast, you know, you have Jenna, who's the right to direct their stars. [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely amazing.

33:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and then Kevin Pollock and people who just pop in. [SPEAKER_01]: And [SPEAKER_01]: It was just a blast and yet it has so much heart like the old school romcom so that I'm really excited for because it's a whole different thing I'll be doing 80 or for that next week I can't wait [SPEAKER_02]: I'm looking forward to that.

34:13 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm looking forward to seeing you a part of that. [SPEAKER_02]: It's funny because Emily has gone through so many of those same things. [SPEAKER_02]: They wouldn't let her do comedy for so long and her early part until shit's creaked came around. [SPEAKER_02]: And it's just like, right, and it's breaking against that.

34:29 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so, it's crazy. [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's crazy, this is the job. [SPEAKER_02]: As you were saying, you know, to inhabit the minds of whatever character you're gonna be on. [SPEAKER_02]: Like that's your job. [SPEAKER_02]: But then within the job, [SPEAKER_02]: you know, have some control if you want to have longevity for the most part, you know, and to watch you do that, you know, in her or whoever we're talking about, like, like, it's nothing but applause if you're able to kind of figure that out and pull it off and have to drive to do it.

34:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, you know, the thing is is that where I got, you know, and again, I have young kids, so I mean, you know, my extensive, my, my film, you know, watching is like record Ralph and like, you know, and certain things. [SPEAKER_01]: So I, but, you know, I mean, don't get me wrong.

35:10 [SPEAKER_01]: They're really into like certain films right now. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we watch, like I said, the thing and my other son, nine years old, is into horror. [SPEAKER_01]: So we just watch the original nightmare and I'm sure, but that being said, [SPEAKER_01]: I realized that the reason that problem I was having with film as of recently, as opposed to because I love [SPEAKER_01]: film.

35:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I love movies. [SPEAKER_01]: I love film. [SPEAKER_01]: But I would see in a lot of people where the second they come on screen. [SPEAKER_01]: I know exactly who they're going to be. [SPEAKER_01]: I go, okay, here it is. [SPEAKER_01]: This guy's going to save the day or this person's going to be a bad guy or this part.

35:42 [SPEAKER_01]: So I know, I just know, because I know the way Hollywood works. [SPEAKER_01]: I know that they can't let people stretch. [SPEAKER_01]: But yet, when we see Robin Williams a goodwill hunting and we go, whoa. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, right, we go, that's incredible, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Or we see count, count them, Philipsy more often doing comedy, you know, or like we see people who are jumping, and they're usually wonderful at, and everybody goes, I didn't know that, you know, John Hammbs doing comedy after Mad Band and he's fantastic.

36:11 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, you see, or Adam Sandler doing drama, right? [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, we know that great because they're great. [SPEAKER_01]: They're talented. [SPEAKER_01]: To me, actors act. [SPEAKER_01]: So if I wasn't going to be given that, I had to create that in the form of Emily. [SPEAKER_01]: Emily is one of the best actors I've ever worked with in my life.

36:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Like hands down when we've do some dramatic stuff in that movie and we do some really funny stuff because she's an incredible actor. [SPEAKER_01]: So it doesn't matter what the form that is. [SPEAKER_01]: The problem is is that we've become so risk-averse in the game that we just want, okay, this person's this.

36:50 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to get the audience because they're going to see them and they're going to want to go to this. [SPEAKER_01]: But the biggest movies that we've seen in the last few, the biggest breakouts has $1 for dollar. [SPEAKER_01]: That's just not the case. [SPEAKER_01]: So I, I was not going to wait on anyone to do it.

37:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I was going to do it on my own. [SPEAKER_01]: So made a dishonest, just another one of those come with me is one, Brutin's one, Saviors is definitely one. [SPEAKER_01]: And there are just films that I just said, no, I'm going to, I'm going to do something. [SPEAKER_01]: that I feel I can do and I'm not going to wait for them to let me do it because I, you know, I've always been at the Casavetti's mindset, you know, it's my favorite filmmaker.

37:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I love that he has a trooper of people when he was doing it with Ben Gazar and Peter Fock and Sue Marksell and General Rollins and like that's how I operate. [SPEAKER_01]: So they did all forms of film. [SPEAKER_01]: And to me, that's the best kind. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, it makes it really exciting to be a viewer, to be a fan of what you do and everything else.

37:48 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm looking forward to all that. [SPEAKER_02]: I hope we get to talk about all of these movies too. [SPEAKER_02]: Because the great thing about your movies is there's something to talk about. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, that's the biggest part of this. [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't have to, I didn't have to work too hard to think of a conversation for us because the conversation is in the movie.

38:03 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, as you're saying, so I just haven't seen it. [SPEAKER_01]: Isn't it the best, isn't that why we want to watch them? [SPEAKER_01]: Now I get it. [SPEAKER_01]: I get it. [SPEAKER_01]: Listen, I'm all about empty brain food. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, just go on the right. [SPEAKER_01]: I love six fives.

38:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, let's go. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's go. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's ride that roller coaster. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to come off for exhaustion. [SPEAKER_01]: And we go, woo. [SPEAKER_01]: That was great. [SPEAKER_01]: And it was great. [SPEAKER_01]: But I also like. [SPEAKER_01]: to kind of go for walks and have conversations.

38:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't need to be on the roller coaster. [SPEAKER_01]: I like to just go for a walk and say, what did you, let's talk about this thing that's going on. [SPEAKER_01]: And then we have that to me is more stimulating for my brain, for me, not for everyone, by the way. [SPEAKER_01]: So I like to be stimulated through anything I'm ingesting, art-wise.

38:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm hoping that these movies do that. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I so appreciate what you do, man. [SPEAKER_02]: And come with me, what a master's stroke. [SPEAKER_02]: Where can people see this? [SPEAKER_01]: Right now, everywhere, Apple, Amazon, wherever you get your movies, that's where they're getting them.

38:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I'm sure soon enough, it'll be streaming somewhere. [SPEAKER_01]: And then it'll be on your retinas and your shower or something who knows. [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't, you know, the way movies were, but now, now it's on right now. [SPEAKER_02]: Right, man. [SPEAKER_02]: It's such a pleasure, dude.

39:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much. [SPEAKER_01]: They're very talking to you, and I'm so it's just always absolute pleasure and never changed that background. [SPEAKER_02]: I've never changed in the background. [SPEAKER_01]: And then we know a little addition here in this little addition, but he prints right there.

39:26 [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be there. [SPEAKER_01]: Never be trying to rewind. [SPEAKER_01]: Take it easy brother. [SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate you. [SPEAKER_02]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: Bye, family. [SPEAKER_02]: Hello. [SPEAKER_02]: My thanks to Theo come with me is out now thanks to you for checking out the episode before you get out of here If you're not already pleased you hit that subscribe button and we inspire you to do so.

39:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Hopefully that's happened You'll get new interviews just like this one as I said every single week Spotify Apple podcast NPR WFPK dot org consequence YouTube for the video versions or anywhere you get your podcasts from you can subscribe [SPEAKER_02]: The Kyle Meredith with, please, to give this series a rating, leave a review wherever you're listening or watching from.

40:02 [SPEAKER_02]: And after that, you can head over to wfpk.org, where I do a show Monday through Friday. [SPEAKER_02]: It starts 6pm Eastern. [SPEAKER_02]: It's four hours of classic alternative indie rock, Americana. [SPEAKER_02]: You get the best in new music. [SPEAKER_02]: There are bonus interviews, lots of music and film news as well.

40:17 [SPEAKER_02]: One of my recent shows featured some classics and favorites from Paul Westerberg, Allison Russell, MGMT, The Curatorie Amos, [SPEAKER_02]: Bjork, the Jesus and Mary Chain, Kiss and the Pink, Pete Yorn, Phantom Planet, the incredible Moses Leroy, Clash, Teenage Fan Club, Death Cat for Cutie, and my interviews with everyone from Mark Hamill, Joan Jet, Dawn Felder, Gracie Abrams, Daniel Fishel, Patrick Rana, Gade Mata Ratsos, Spike Ferrison, Kim Thial, from Sound Garden, Troy Sanders, or Master Dawn, Joe Talbot, for Middles.

40:50 [SPEAKER_02]: That's what you can hear when you tune in in weeknights, 6 p.m. [SPEAKER_02]: at wfpk.org. [SPEAKER_02]: Consequence has your music. [SPEAKER_02]: If you feel news, you can also find me on any of the social media sites. [SPEAKER_02]: The address is always at Kyle Meredith. [SPEAKER_02]: Please do like, follow along, and that does it for another edition.

41:08 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Kyle Meredith. [SPEAKER_02]: I'll see you next time. [SPEAKER_00]: Consequence podcast network, it's easy to hear your favorite artist on WFPK from wherever you are. [SPEAKER_00]: Listen on your smart speaker, live stream from our website at WFPK.org from Louisville Public Media.