Tom Cavanagh on You’re Killing Me, Sharp Writing, and Playing a Small-Town Detective (and a special Rewind with Brad Roberts from Crash Test Dummies)

0:00 [SPEAKER_00]: It's easy to hear your favorite artist on WFPK from wherever you are. [SPEAKER_00]: Listen on your smart speaker, live stream from our website at WFPK.org from Louisville Public Media. [SPEAKER_02]: And welcome to another edition of Kyle Meredith with. [SPEAKER_02]: It's the interview series presented by WFPK at WFPK.Borg consequence and the consequence podcast network.

0:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for making your way here to check it out. [SPEAKER_02]: You know what to do. [SPEAKER_02]: If you like what you see, what you hear and that's subscribe button. [SPEAKER_02]: You're going to get new interviews. [SPEAKER_02]: Just like this one sent your way every single week. [SPEAKER_02]: You can grab us at Spotify, Apple Podcast, NPR.

0:48 [SPEAKER_02]: WFPK.org, consequence, YouTube for the video versions, or anywhere you get your podcast from. [SPEAKER_02]: You can subscribe to Kyle Mayard with please to give this series a rating and leave a review where every listing from. [SPEAKER_02]: We've had some great guests dropping by lately.

1:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Judith Light was just here to talk about the tear, the devil, and silver. [SPEAKER_02]: We hung out with Camico Glenn. [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, you know her from Orange is the new black. [SPEAKER_02]: She also has her debut EP. [SPEAKER_02]: come modern dance that she just released jack-hands enough super producer lead singer the bleachers they've got their fifth album out called everyone for ten minutes my a hawk dropped in she's like a yearly guest on the show not only talk about her latest film work but also her latest music Maria Corso [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, we had Courtney Barnett, she's got a new record called, uh, creature of habit, Natalie Allen Lund.

1:35 [SPEAKER_02]: She starring in Dutton Ranch, the spin-off of Yellowstone, we also talk with Paul Bettany and Will Sharp about the TV adaptation of Amadeus, and Jenna Malone, who's starring in The Burrows on Netflix, and has a new record out as well. [SPEAKER_02]: That's just an example of what you get when you subscribe to the Kyle Meredith with podcast.

1:54 [SPEAKER_02]: That's me Kyle Merit today talking with actor Tom Cavano, you know Tom from he was a title character in the Ed TV series. [SPEAKER_02]: He was also in the flash and scrubs and now he's back in the acorn TV original series called You're killing me alongside Brooke Shields and Demalia Williams and the six series murder mystery series.

2:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Just premiered on on acorn TV. [SPEAKER_02]: And let's read about it here, set on a quaint New England town. [SPEAKER_02]: The mystery follows best-selling novelist Ali, played by a Brooks Shields, who forms an unlikely alliance with an aspiring writer and podcaster, Andy, played by a Malia Williamson.

2:35 [SPEAKER_02]: To find the killer of a close friend, Tom Cabinol stars as Jack, the new lead detective of the local police department, and former city slicker who's trying to acclimate to the quirks of small town life. [SPEAKER_02]: It's very fun getting to talk to Tom about this about this series, but because it works so well as he says that the cast mostly just had to stay out of its own way, and Tom's going to talk about building this small town detective alongside Brooke and Anemalia in providing lines, sneaking a little clumbo, maybe into the performance.

3:11 [SPEAKER_02]: And while knowing the ending helped him keep the powder dry as he says right up until the finale We're also gonna maybe just talk a little bit of a bit just to brief a little bit of music right into getting a little prince bowie You know, I got the posters behind the wall and speaking of music stick around because after this interview I'm gonna do a little flashback a little rewind back to 2017 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, Tom, Canadian actor, we're going to go back to one of my conversations with another Canadian, Brad Roberts of Crash Test Dummies.

3:40 [SPEAKER_02]: So stick around for that one. [SPEAKER_02]: But right now, let's get into it. [SPEAKER_02]: We're talking to you, you're killing me an acorn TV original. [SPEAKER_02]: It's Kyle Meadeth with Tom Kavanaugh. [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, your background is killer. [SPEAKER_02]: I let it do all the heavy lifting for me.

3:54 [SPEAKER_02]: That's like that. [SPEAKER_01]: That is smart. [SPEAKER_01]: That is fantastic. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I love you. [SPEAKER_01]: I love you. [SPEAKER_01]: Your prince's center stage man. [SPEAKER_01]: That is amazing. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, between him and Bowie, it's really like who should.

4:04 [SPEAKER_02]: But that's, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: It's genius. [SPEAKER_01]: I honestly was listening to both of them this morning. [SPEAKER_01]: That's crazy. [SPEAKER_01]: Is that true? [SPEAKER_01]: True story. [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely true. [SPEAKER_02]: then I'd like to say I did this just for you. [SPEAKER_02]: It's not the universe made it all happen, I don't know.

4:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Not necessarily. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just grateful to be a part of it when I see it. [SPEAKER_02]: Speaking of being a part of things, congratulations on your killing me, man. [SPEAKER_02]: What are you? [SPEAKER_01]: I said, wait, Kyle. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, how do you like that, radio? [SPEAKER_01]: You know that, yeah, you know that you're good.

4:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Seriously, though, I mean, intelligently written, it's fun to watch the chemistry's great. [SPEAKER_02]: You got a good story. [SPEAKER_02]: It's fun having sort of the the monster of the week, but with the full story at once. [SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, I was not being facetious. [SPEAKER_01]: You are a good at your job.

4:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I've done a number of these interviews and everything you just said is the point time I try to hit because it is well written. [SPEAKER_01]: It looks like it's maybe a murder of the week and then it does fails into something else and all these different tangents. [SPEAKER_01]: become wrapped together intertwined and then you have a cracker jack banger of a finale.

5:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And I say that not because I'm in the thing but rather because I think the writers crafted this season so very intelligently and I know on behalf of the actors when we read you this is this is a true snapshot. [SPEAKER_01]: We were like halfway through filming the finale. [SPEAKER_01]: We are three of us looked at each other and we're like [SPEAKER_01]: This is like a, this is a cracker jack of a finale.

5:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Like this is great. [SPEAKER_01]: Like the pace is moving your hardest beating. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you don't know where it's going. [SPEAKER_01]: The stakes are life and death, and you didn't maybe necessarily see that coming. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's great. [SPEAKER_01]: And then to sort of be a part of that, to temically and Hollywood like the writer doesn't get the credit, you know, I'm just very quick to like give the writers the credit for what they've done for this season.

5:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I think anybody that spends like their hour with us, you know, weekly will not be disappointed. [SPEAKER_02]: And some of the dialogue too. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's there's there's a lot of great lines in there, but when you say nothing's nothing's longer than a short film.

6:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought is that is that because because it felt like you is that one of the moments where the writers just really nailed your voice or is that little bit of you there as well. [SPEAKER_01]: No, there's definitely like, you know, the writers would tell you, there's definitely things where like, that was an improv, you know, like, there's a lot, I think it's in the trailer, where it's like, the line was like, what are you the information police and the line was that that's exactly what I am.

6:23 [SPEAKER_01]: But, but, I'm allian, I just, at the scene, I think that's the exact exact what the exact what I am, you know, like, and the fact that the two people do it at once, that was great, that line that you're talking about was like, oh, that is humdinger. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, on the cold read, like it just got like a lot of attention because it's one of those things.

6:45 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a very interesting. [SPEAKER_01]: It's so funny who's zeroed in this line. [SPEAKER_01]: This is the thing about good writing, honestly, words like if I go like, if I say, and that line is like, they're talking about a short film, like there's nothing longer than a short film. [SPEAKER_01]: That's how you do that line, in my opinion.

7:00 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you start trying to ornament it, and go like, oh, there's nothing longer than a short film, you dissolve it. [SPEAKER_01]: You take it over play and so. [SPEAKER_01]: And so that when you get good writing, it says like, I just have to say the line. [SPEAKER_01]: That happens again and again in the show, where it's like, it's all there, you know, like, [SPEAKER_01]: you don't have to push it and there's a giant difference to do in television.

7:22 [SPEAKER_01]: We have to try and find a way to make the writer stuff work versus you have to this kind of writing where it's like you just have to not screw up the writer's words. [SPEAKER_02]: sure it does all the heavy lifting, but you still have to know how to say it. [SPEAKER_02]: And really recognizing when you're gifted a line like that.

7:38 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's a thing like Brooks and Amalia's comedy chops are aces. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's like, you know, I like to feel like I know what I'm doing too. [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the thing about casting people that, all right, we're not going to be like, you know, when we get something that's great, we're just going to honor it, you know?

7:57 [SPEAKER_01]: and it's great to be surrounded by people who understand that, you know, that aren't like pushing where you don't need to push, you know, and you know, Brooke, Brooke's, I'm sure you'll be talking to her, but, and I'm sure she'll say it better than I will, but her self-calibration, right?

8:14 [SPEAKER_01]: She, you know, I find that I have that kind of thing as well. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like that, I want to do that again, [SPEAKER_01]: it was 80% and it should be 100, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: And she, I can do it this way, I can do it this way, but if I do this one this way, I'm gonna have to do this one this way.

8:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And so like, you know, like, every take sort of, takes on this kind of fluidity, and she's very aware, as is Amalia, you know, of how to calibrate her performance. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that it's a joy to be a part of that. [SPEAKER_02]: And we'll be right back right after this. [SPEAKER_02]: It's welcome back.

8:45 [SPEAKER_02]: It's Kyle Mears with Tom Cavino. [SPEAKER_01]: Why don't we close on time here? [SPEAKER_02]: I want to quickly ask, because at this point, I mean, you've been doing this a long time, but like this guy, this police chief, do you base him on anyone? [SPEAKER_02]: Do you do little send-ups?

8:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Is that still part of your process at all? [SPEAKER_02]: Because when I'm seeing it's like, there's a little bit of Columbus there. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what the bag's about across in the whole time, like, what does all this mean? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's a lot to it. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, that I think is gonna come out further down the line, should we get to do more, you know what I mean?

9:14 [SPEAKER_01]: But you want to present, [SPEAKER_01]: I think the way I've been talking about is like somebody worthy, you know, that she's a luminary in a small town and that he comes to this small town, but like you might not, it might not be expected that again, you're going to find an awardee opponent or a worthy match in this thing, but that's what they are.

9:36 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, when you talk about the legalese of the stuff, like my brother is like a giant prosecutor for the Crown Court in my native in our nation, Canada, [SPEAKER_01]: You know, he's a killer in the courtroom, right? [SPEAKER_01]: But he's humble and he would never draw attention to himself.

9:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think I'm stealing some of that stuff for Jack or Jack doesn't want plot, it's an acclaim. [SPEAKER_01]: He wants to get the job done. [SPEAKER_02]: I love that. [SPEAKER_02]: Did you know the ending and is that important? [SPEAKER_01]: It is to me like, I, you know, this sounds so obnoxious, Kyle to say like, oh, you're coming from theater.

10:06 [SPEAKER_01]: But like, I think knowing that you're going to have an opportunity to shoot the gun off in third act, allows you to keep the powder dry in the first act. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you don't, you have an opportunity to shoot it in the act one, but you don't because you know the other stuff is coming.

10:19 [SPEAKER_01]: and you can measure the performance and I said using that word calibrate so that when it comes time to shoot it off, you haven't stepped on anything beforehand. [SPEAKER_01]: So I like to know the arcs and where it's going just so I can maximize the moments that the writers have written.

10:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, I seriously do. [SPEAKER_02]: I've loved every bit of it. [SPEAKER_02]: It surprised me. [SPEAKER_02]: It honestly did. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you think that you're going to do it with one thing and it becomes something else. [SPEAKER_01]: I will say this. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I really felt that same way.

10:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, that in the best way, there was like, oh, man. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, this is what you strive for as an actor, what you hope for, is that like, the writing is better than, you know, than what you expected and that you just had to live up to. [SPEAKER_01]: And then, even then, I don't know that I saw like, [SPEAKER_01]: all the different tangents and like the inns and outs of the finale.

11:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And so just being a part of that is like that's a rare thing, you know, where you're like, this is so good. [SPEAKER_01]: And I, I get to be part of it. [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm grateful Tom, it's been such a pleasure to talk to you about it. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much, man. [SPEAKER_01]: See you in the next one.

11:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_02]: And we'll be right back right after this. [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back. [SPEAKER_02]: It's Kyle Man, it's so as I mentioned, a little part two bonus feature. [SPEAKER_02]: We've got the time today. [SPEAKER_02]: Let's head back to 2017. [SPEAKER_02]: That's when I caught up with Brad Roberts of Crash Test Demis to talk about the status of the band around that time.

11:36 [SPEAKER_02]: The extended break they had been on. [SPEAKER_02]: Some Western philosophy is a lot of that in here. [SPEAKER_02]: Infinity, mortality, yoga. [SPEAKER_02]: Part two, it's a special bonus episode right here. [SPEAKER_02]: Kyle Man is with Brad Roberts of Crash Test Demis. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so happy we finally got to do this.

11:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm really excited about it. [SPEAKER_02]: So how are you? [SPEAKER_03]: I'm very well, thank you. [SPEAKER_03]: I'm happy to be touring again, not that it's taking over my life. [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I did a three weeks in Canada. [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, summertime is a killer trying to get people to come to shows.

12:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Unless you're playing big festivals. [SPEAKER_03]: That's about the only thing there is market was for me. [SPEAKER_03]: And I haven't played any folk festival since so long. [SPEAKER_03]: But I'll be going out again in the fall. [SPEAKER_03]: And I already have about a week and a half of shows booked in November in Canada on the West Coast.

12:41 [SPEAKER_03]: So, Alberta and British Columbia Vancouver. [SPEAKER_03]: part country. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I'm sure you've got plenty of fans on that side of the world. [SPEAKER_02]: Just ready to come to the end. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, looking for a reason. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and we were talking over email and touring is not easy, especially, you know, I don't know, not been doing it consistently for a while and I guess that's what I got a little bit from you over our emails is that it's exhausting out there trying to get yourself [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

13:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's, um, you just kind of have to resign yourself to the fact that every day you're going to be on the highway and every night you're going to be checking into a hotel and doing exactly the same thing. [SPEAKER_03]: But fortunately, you know, the shows are always an adventure.

13:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: And, um, you know, having a day off here and there is nice to get some rest. [SPEAKER_03]: It gets kind of dull when you're not playing. [SPEAKER_03]: So I like to play a lot when I do go out and we're doing like a duo thing now. [SPEAKER_03]: So it's not crashes. [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's first time I've gone out as Brad Roberts.

14:00 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm crashes. [SPEAKER_03]: That means. [SPEAKER_03]: Right. [SPEAKER_03]: And we're playing rooms that are intimate. [SPEAKER_03]: You know, their rooms are people go to really listen to music, and I was, I was actually surprised that when we did the ballads, you could hear a pin drop in every room we played.

14:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Like people were locked in totally on what we were doing. [SPEAKER_03]: You know, it wasn't like people talking through the set. [SPEAKER_03]: Nothing like that. [SPEAKER_03]: And I was, you know, I couldn't be more pleased. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it was really great. [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, a little nerve-racking, frankly, seeing that close-up and personal with everybody.

14:52 [SPEAKER_03]: But I kind of enjoyed the nerve-wrackingness of it. [SPEAKER_03]: It makes me rise to the occasion and occasionally get better than I would have been otherwise. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't remember who I was. [SPEAKER_02]: I felt like it was a documentary. [SPEAKER_02]: I caught probably the trailer, rather recently, of a famed, I think it was a classical musician saying, you know, if you're not figuring out a way to make yourself nervous before a show, then you're not going to be able to give it everything you've got.

15:20 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if it's exactly true, but I see some truth in that. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's an interesting comment. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: I think there's definitely some truth to it that nervous energy get propelled by nervous energy.

15:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go out there and do it. [SPEAKER_02]: So on this trip, I mean, I know you've posted new singles, but I guess they're not exactly new songs, right? [SPEAKER_03]: Um, well, actually, I only posted the one new song and it's not a new song. [SPEAKER_03]: You're right.

15:54 [SPEAKER_03]: It's an old-ish song that I wrote like five years ago. [SPEAKER_03]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm talking about I'll be peaceful then. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we are and is a great song. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm I'm I'm telling I'm not you know thrown it at you because we're talking, but This is one of my favorite songs that I've heard this year, and I feel like it sort of came out of nowhere And and I don't know it at condescendingly because but but any artist who's been around for so long [SPEAKER_03]: you know you i mean a lot of folks have trouble with the creative fire and and keeping really good you know writings happening but i don't get that from this song i get that you're still in a great place to write music well thank you very much and you know it did it didn't kind of come out of nowhere in that one day i was kind of like uh well you know it seemed to be putting out one song at a time now and not really caring they just put it out

16:49 [SPEAKER_03]: They just, literally, you know, take a song and put it on the internet, and that's, you know, to some extent, I mourn the loss of the album that has, you know, continuity and feels like it belongs to get other collection of songs, and that's, that's kind of how I used to write, well, it was definitely how I used to write, you know, you'd [SPEAKER_03]: feelings and you know colors I'm mixing my metaphors here and now you know people just put out a song at a time and then and I kind of thought well I could either mourn that and the loss of them quote the album.

17:41 [SPEAKER_03]: or, you know, I could just put one of my things off because I'm about to go on the road and I can't hurt and we'll play it at the show, which we did and it went over extremely well. [SPEAKER_03]: It just, it's one of those songs that really grabs people. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm glad you did.

17:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I've been talking with a lot of people I guess about this. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's always the thing and you know, it's back when you first started, I'm sure it was, you know, a different kind of argument about how you promote yourself and market yourself. [SPEAKER_02]: And now this is the specific thing that we're looking at right now is, you know, that putting singles out and everything.

18:18 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm happy to have new music, however, it can come out. [SPEAKER_02]: So, [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, at the same time, when you have vinyl sales that's kind of taken off in the past decade the way they have, you know, it's not that there is a complete, a complete absence of, of album lovers because, you know, that's true.

18:37 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's become a niche. [SPEAKER_02]: And I was certain, but, you know, we're not talking about Springsteen doing important in the USA, you know, in the 80s at the height of, of everything, you know, [SPEAKER_03]: I was just in an elevator, yesterday, over here in two doors, they were like 16 tops.

19:01 [SPEAKER_03]: And they were talking about doing something with their turn table. [SPEAKER_03]: You know, like, I don't know what it was, just some sort of fiddling around. [SPEAKER_03]: Like, there wasn't scratching or anything, but they were talking about actually, like these kids owned a fucking turn table in a record collection.

19:22 [SPEAKER_03]: And they were just kids, so clearly it's become kind of a thing again, and I actually mourned the fact that there was never a vinyl release of my first record except for a year up. [SPEAKER_03]: And I never really got a copy, I don't have a copy of anything I own, and then I heard [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and I don't know where that I don't know how you buy it, like if they put it in record stores or Or if you order it on the net or what that's the problem to me with vinyl.

20:04 [SPEAKER_03]: It's Too heavy to carry around on the road. [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's not, but it is When you put a lot of them together. [SPEAKER_02]: That's very heavy. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and And 30 CDs weighs nothing. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's right. [SPEAKER_03]: And [SPEAKER_03]: But it would be fun to do a vinyl edition if I could, but that of course means getting a distribution deal and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, it's just so much easy and not to have a physical product like people don't even have CDs anymore and as a matter of fact, MacBook didn't put a CD player in their new airbooks.

20:48 [SPEAKER_02]: it's like it that's kind of fuck yeah i mean we still get service here at you know in radio stations with with CDs from labels but it's become much much less it's much more of a digital servicing and you know and that's yeah but but that's a good view artwork with most of the time yeah there there i mean there's a lot that comes in that's that is promo copy without artwork but [SPEAKER_02]: You know, once the full of them comes out, we usually do get service, but then again, I work in a different sort of radio than, you know, I'm, I'm triple A radio, I'm noncom radio publicly supported radio, you know, so it does work a little bit different down here and we're a bit more purists.

21:25 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't imagine the pops and down the street gets the same type of service that that we get. [SPEAKER_02]: They probably don't care, you know, but when the album comes out like to get it and and our our listeners love to, you know If we can get a box up to give away, they love to get those two and they still pick up the CDs But you mean obviously CDs are not selling these same people who would love to get them for free It's not like they're going to the record store buying them if they go to the record No, they're buying the vinyl Well in fact, I have a couple of friends who are like in their 30s [SPEAKER_03]: And I give them copies of my records and they're like, I can't use this.

22:03 [SPEAKER_03]: They got nothing. [SPEAKER_03]: That's fun. [SPEAKER_02]: It's funny. [SPEAKER_02]: I remember having the same dilemma with cassettes at some point. [SPEAKER_02]: We'll take it back around with the music. [SPEAKER_02]: I do want to go back to the song. [SPEAKER_02]: I'll be peaceful then though because again, it deserves its own spotlight and our conversation here.

22:20 [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's been around for a few years. [SPEAKER_02]: I've told you over the email, I get this great Tom weights vibe from this song in all the best ways. [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, I mean, these are so... [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how biographical this song is, but it's not the happiest of songs.

22:35 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's not a completely new song, but it's sort of dark. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it is sort of dark. [SPEAKER_03]: And I think it works here. [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, it's funny because when I write a dark lyric, I find that if I play dark chords, it just doesn't seem to work, like all the chords in that song are major chords.

23:04 [SPEAKER_03]: There's, well, there's a minor chord that kind of goes back between the major and the minor, but so the most part, they're major chords and it almost has kind of like a [SPEAKER_03]: like there's something about church in the song too, like in the way it musically the way it feels. [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not sure what that is, but it's almost like a spiritual kind of like not spiritual in the sense of being a spiritual person, but spiritual in the sort of more genre-sense of the word, you know what I mean.

23:40 [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, those, those words, [SPEAKER_03]: oddly enough and I was very happy with them and I was very nervous about writing the music because I thought well you know I got it's got a little bit to the lyric and then that ended up coming very easily too and I didn't feel like I had the mistrust if you're coming quickly it actually seemed really work so yeah that was a that's a song that I'm most that I most proud [SPEAKER_03]: all the songs that I come up with since the last record I put in the U.L.A., which I love from beginning to end.

24:27 [SPEAKER_03]: I really am proud of all the tracks on that. [SPEAKER_03]: But then after that, we had a bunch of leftover tracks and I just wasn't confident enough in some of them to ever have enough for it to be a record. [SPEAKER_03]: And I just kind of got way laid on it. [SPEAKER_03]: But this one song [SPEAKER_03]: you know, and so it came.

24:51 [SPEAKER_03]: I really have done next to nothing in terms of promoting it or, you know, I don't have a manager. [SPEAKER_03]: I don't talk to people in radio. [SPEAKER_03]: I'm completely at that stuff. [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, so, you know, [SPEAKER_03]: The only way it's ever going to get promoted is when I go out and play it.

25:13 [SPEAKER_02]: It does hope people find it. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I thought it online, obviously. [SPEAKER_02]: It was un-spotifying. [SPEAKER_02]: I found it very interesting, though, that it was, you know, it's listed under the crash system. [SPEAKER_02]: But it says, and features Brad Roberts. [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I put that in because that was the only thing that, well, actually, I put that in for two reasons.

25:31 [SPEAKER_03]: One was, because I was going to do a Brad Roberts tour. [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and not a crash system, he's too. [SPEAKER_03]: And then secondly, like there's really no information room for information on, uh, on the net when you're selling your songs. [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I did it through a thing called Tune Corps and their service that will send your songs to Amazon [SPEAKER_03]: thing you can think of as well.

26:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Like all the formats, they're really good at it. [SPEAKER_03]: And when you upload a song, you get the upload and image, and it can only have the name of, I think it can only have them. [SPEAKER_03]: I wish I had the page in front of me, but did [SPEAKER_03]: you can have like a graphic and you can have the name of the record and the name the song and then whether or not someone's featured and that's it.

26:38 [SPEAKER_03]: You can't put in lyrics, you can't put in produced by, you can't put in any sort of line or notes, it's just bleak. [SPEAKER_03]: So I thought, well, [SPEAKER_03]: I have hardly any information to put here, I guess I'll put my name where it says features, because it after all, those features make.

26:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's a big petition going online right now that people are signing. [SPEAKER_02]: Lots of musicians are passing it around to start forcing these companies to include liner notes, at least some option where people can find the liner notes. [SPEAKER_02]: because it's it's really it's a good yeah it's it's starting to happen I feel that wave coming around and I do think it will eventually happen hopefully sooner than later because I mean I'm you know as big a music nerd as they come so when I do get an album and as soon as I put it on the first thing I do is start reading the liner notes because you know what you're gonna find in there and you know it's yeah I want all of that

27:34 [SPEAKER_03]: I love lying around, and I'm quite used to practically fucking memorize them. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, same here. [SPEAKER_02]: There was another song that popped up online, and I guess that's where I got the several songs. [SPEAKER_02]: So what is promised land then? [SPEAKER_03]: A promised land is a song by an artist named Mark Mysterio, and, you know, he just came to me and said, I'm a big fan of yours, and I want to work with you.

28:04 [SPEAKER_03]: And he had this song, and I was like, okay, I'll put my voice in your song, he was just very, you know, persuasive. [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, I thought it was for the kindness song it was, I thought it was really catchy. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: And, um, [SPEAKER_03]: But it's not really my thing.

28:31 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just like I make a little guest appearance on it. [SPEAKER_03]: It's not something I wrote or that I think about much. [SPEAKER_03]: It's not really. [SPEAKER_03]: Gotcha. [SPEAKER_03]: It's just a side thing I did. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, great dance group to it. [SPEAKER_02]: But you know, it's hard not to notice what's going on with the hook of the song, which of course recall, it seems to recall, you know, your crash system is calling card song with the, uh, yes.

28:55 [SPEAKER_03]: No, I threw that in there. [SPEAKER_03]: the cough and wasn't even thinking that it would end up in there. [SPEAKER_03]: And of course it did. [SPEAKER_02]: On his part, it's almost like how could he not? [SPEAKER_02]: So again, you're recalling your most famous single. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's really fun.

29:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I love when artists do that throughout their career anyway, they kind of leave the little Easter eggs of their past and everything and other songs. [SPEAKER_02]: And that was a cool moment to hear the first time. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I was glad you did it. [SPEAKER_03]: I thought it worked.

29:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, we've talked about, you know, how you're thinking about just singles and everything and you do have these other songs lying around and, of course, I would love to know. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, do you think these will ever lead to anything, whether it's just a series of singles coming out or an eventual album or anything?

29:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, are you writing something? [SPEAKER_03]: Now that you've mentioned mine alive but now I'm thinking maybe I should write a record and I'll play it out on vinyl and that'll be the thing that makes me want to write record. [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah I mean at one time I'm life I would really be suffering if I weren't writing because I'm pretty much equated my personal value with my work.

30:16 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's kind of a dangerous thing, especially in something like the music business where things are not consistent. [SPEAKER_03]: And if you're over-identifying with your work, then you're in for, you know, trouble, or a personal level. [SPEAKER_03]: And I have had to sort of train myself to enjoy life.

30:47 [SPEAKER_03]: I've had to, I've had to turn away from feeling that way because it was just not getting me anywhere. [SPEAKER_03]: And so I purposely stayed away from writing for a while. [SPEAKER_03]: And I also began to feel like I was not necessarily writing from the kind of vital place that I needed to write from, but I needed a break.

31:15 [SPEAKER_03]: I think actually that that's more like a realization that I've had now having taken the break than it was the rationale for having taken the break. [SPEAKER_03]: You know, taking the break was me actually saying, okay, you got to get over this whole, you know, equating your tilt image with whether or not you're being creative and productive [SPEAKER_03]: And so I purposely took a bunch of time away from writing.

31:52 [SPEAKER_03]: And I did have an experience recently, I've been reading about the concept of infinity in mathematics, in particular Birch and Russell, who argued that one of the [SPEAKER_03]: great mathematicians of the 19th century had basically solved the problem of infinity from a mathematical point of view.

32:19 [SPEAKER_03]: And of course, infinity is one of the subjects that originally came out of philosophy, back when philosophy and math weren't two different subjects in Greek times, for example. [SPEAKER_03]: And I started to think about how the problem of infinity [SPEAKER_03]: and theological problems are always hand in hand.

32:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Because when you start to ask about something like a first cause, like what we need God in order for there to be a universe, because we need a cause. [SPEAKER_03]: We need a first cause. [SPEAKER_03]: We can't imagine the world infinitely regressing. [SPEAKER_03]: It has to start somewhere.

33:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, where did it start? [SPEAKER_03]: It started by the uncaused cause as it were, the first primal cause. [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, so mathematics and the idea of God became intertwined in an early stage in the history of Western thinking. [SPEAKER_03]: I kind of, and it was inspired a little bit by the tone of genesis in the King James translation of the Bible.

33:46 [SPEAKER_03]: And the rhythms of the language in that, I was reading that at the time as well. [SPEAKER_03]: And it's, I think it's the best lyric I've ever written in my life. [SPEAKER_03]: really really good and I'm terrified about writing the music because I know it has to be as good as the lyric and uh it's definitely a lot of print out right there yeah so i am definitely going to set that one to music and that that lyric took me three days of continuous sustained effort to create [SPEAKER_03]: The lyrics I'd been writing in the past were very much done in an hour.

34:34 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'd got used to working that way. [SPEAKER_03]: I would be like, okay, you can't. [SPEAKER_03]: You can't think too much. [SPEAKER_03]: You want to just sit down, close your eyes and write whatever comes in your head and just let it go, let it, you know, if it's nonsense, write it down, just keep going.

34:54 [SPEAKER_03]: And eventually, you know, [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes I'd write an entire lyric and then I'd write a second one as an afterthought because I was in the rhythm of it and it would turn out to be a great lyric and I'd scrap the first one. [SPEAKER_03]: So it was that this most recent lyric I did was very much like I had an idea that I wanted to explore.

35:18 [SPEAKER_03]: I knew what it was when I sat down and it I pursued that until it was [SPEAKER_03]: manifest, you know, until it was as good as it could be. [SPEAKER_03]: And that was a totally different experience for me. [SPEAKER_03]: It's the kind of, and it was very much propelled forward by reading.

35:45 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that, you know, and in fact, that's what I [SPEAKER_03]: writing music. [SPEAKER_03]: When I decided to start writing music, I consciously went back to what I had done studying at university, which was philosophy and English literature. [SPEAKER_03]: And I just read purely for pleasure in both those areas for hours, like back in my student days, you know, just spend a day with a book and another day and another day.

36:24 [SPEAKER_02]: hand reconnect with your roots and suddenly you find the inspiration again exactly [SPEAKER_02]: There's been a sort of a mantra, right, where did all, but going back to what you were talking about, what inspired that lyric and everything, and I heard somewhere a long time ago that the whole concept about living in the present, which we always hear, and sometimes in a cliche manner, to a point, but somewhat became obsessed with that idea of [SPEAKER_02]: infinity in the terms of mortality, of living forever.

37:03 [SPEAKER_02]: And someone said, you know, if you can live completely in a present, then you are alive forever already. [SPEAKER_02]: And it is forever that you're inside. [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought, that's a great way to handle life. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm here right now that I'm never dead.

37:18 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's, yeah, you're alive until you're not. [SPEAKER_03]: And the whole time you're alive, you're alive. [SPEAKER_03]: That's right. [SPEAKER_03]: It's not to get too much further down. [SPEAKER_03]: That is really... That's a good one, though. [SPEAKER_02]: I'd love to, you know, I can't wait hopefully that you do put this to music.

37:38 [SPEAKER_02]: And I know this is... [SPEAKER_02]: There was something else that you did that I feel like sort of goes a little bit with, you know, your philosophical background to a point because there was... Maybe it was a collaborative record you did a few years back. [SPEAKER_02]: Excuse me if I'm saying it wrong, the Rajanaka mantra.

37:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no, it's actually Regionica, but yeah, I wouldn't be able to pronounce that either. [SPEAKER_03]: No worries. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, well, now that came from me taking up yoga. [SPEAKER_03]: I decided that I wanted to learn yoga, and as is often the case with me, if I decide to engage in something, I'd do it.

38:20 [SPEAKER_03]: 100% or nothing, and I became completely obsessed with yoga, and I had a private teacher who would come to me three times a week. [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, it was a big investment over the years, but I got my yoga chops down, and as I was studying the actual awesome on the pastures, [SPEAKER_03]: the sort of larger question of yoga and initially when people practiced yoga it was simply practicing sitting and not being uncomfortable sitting.

39:11 [SPEAKER_03]: So it was merely preparation for meditation [SPEAKER_03]: Now, these days, the Asuna has become a much more extended practice, and the way people do yoga now was only developed towards the end of the 19th century, and the old ancient text called the yoga padipaka, the Hatha yoga padipaka, is, you know, the pastures in it are [SPEAKER_03]: But nevertheless, the West has kind of snipped off the rest of the equation instead of seeing Asana as preparation for meditation, it's done as, you know, physical fitness kind of a thing.

40:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, some yoga practitioners have a more spiritual approach to it than that, it's true. [SPEAKER_03]: Once I started getting good at the physical arsenal, I became interested in why these people had done this to begin with, and it has to do with meditation and mantra, and what all these things mean, like, and so I began to study that, and there's a guy named Douglass Brooks who's a professor at the University of Rochester, and he is one of the handfuls [SPEAKER_03]: of the Sanskrit reading writing literate people in the West and he's an extremely good teacher.

40:59 [SPEAKER_03]: He's got the whole scholarly point of view down and he also is deeply connected with like, you know, people who practice in India. [SPEAKER_03]: So he's kind of a nice double-edged sword. [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not, I really don't buy the Guru model, neither does this guy, you know, the idea that you, you have this one teacher who tells you everything and you just fucking do that.

41:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Right, right, basically stupid, and you know, of course, the old cliche of the fallen guru is extremely true. [SPEAKER_03]: means like the number of gurus that have been exposed for being sexual predators unbelievable. [SPEAKER_03]: It's very easily abused. [SPEAKER_03]: But anyways, I began to study mantra and the philosophy behind mantra.

41:58 [SPEAKER_03]: And for me it was basically an extension of my Western philosophical training. [SPEAKER_03]: because look, they talk about things like the concept of infinity and that becomes part of the theological discussion over there and in the east, what they didn't get rid of the myth and just, you know, in the way that in the way that we have in the West.

42:37 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's not to say that they're stuck in like an ancient paradigm, but philosophy didn't get separated off from myth quite so radically, like modern philosophy in the West. [SPEAKER_03]: You know, they don't talk about the gods, but for Eastern philosophers, Shiva is not just [SPEAKER_03]: like a guy with long hair and a snake around his neck, who created and sustained and destroys the universe, kind of systematic way at every moment, he's, you know, he's, like a metaphor for a philosophical concept and the metaphorical discussion doesn't [SPEAKER_03]: get dropped, like it did over here, where, you know, they separated their gods from the philosophy.

43:37 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, they didn't back in Greece and Ancient Greece, but when the West read a discovery ancient Greece and the Renaissance, they most certainly did eventually separate off the gods from the philosophy and attempted to bring scientists at the [SPEAKER_03]: So now, how did I get there when we were talking about the intro record?

44:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. [SPEAKER_03]: The mantra record. [SPEAKER_03]: So having studied that stuff, I started to practice the meditation. [SPEAKER_03]: And now when I do awesome, I spend another half hours sitting in meditation. [SPEAKER_03]: And sometimes I do mantras. [SPEAKER_03]: And when I learn the mantras, to me, they just begged for musical interpretation.

44:28 [SPEAKER_03]: And I heard all this music underneath them. [SPEAKER_03]: And now, for a purist, what I did with those mantras might be regarded as sacrilege, because their paired-off in many cases with melodies that are as ancient as the mantras themselves. [SPEAKER_03]: And I clearly strayed from that.

44:55 [SPEAKER_03]: My intention was to cross genres, you know, and to put together the East and the West in that way. [SPEAKER_03]: And I would wanted to do it because I think it's so poorly done most of the time. [SPEAKER_03]: You know, music that has mantra and it is almost inevitably this syrupy, awful, new age garbage.

45:19 [SPEAKER_03]: And I thought, you know, this, [SPEAKER_03]: You know, someone has to do a bit of a job. [SPEAKER_03]: I guess it's me. [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm almost finished a second volume of those monitored songs. [SPEAKER_03]: But you know, again, they're like, I made those songs through my friends.

45:38 [SPEAKER_03]: And I put them online, there's a whim. [SPEAKER_03]: And it's got kind of a, a colty following in among younger people. [SPEAKER_02]: But it's fascinating to listen to the guardless, yeah, even for someone who's well, I'm glad that you're open to it. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I guess it's not that bridging of the two is probably what pulled me in on it.

46:01 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, if there's some accessibility for, you know, I mean, I don't live in the yoga world. [SPEAKER_02]: My wife knows much more about it than I do. [SPEAKER_02]: I like it. [SPEAKER_02]: It's just never been, you know, something I've dove into, but what you had done with the tracks made it just, you know, I think the easy way to say it is just a really enjoyable listen, you know, for something.

46:21 [SPEAKER_02]: All right. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, nobody ever talks to me about their record because it's just unknown, so it's really nice to hear, I appreciate that, and a genuine way. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, thank you. [SPEAKER_03]: Well, and they're really fun to make. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm going to the second volume, whenever that comes out, and it's worth, I mean, as I wrap it up here, I'm looking forward to anything and everything new that you have coming out, because I am a fan, and I have been from the very beginning, and I'm just so excited to know that you're still, [SPEAKER_02]: at it in any sense, because a lot of people, after 20 years, 20 plus years, you find other things to do, and it sounds like you have found other things to do that might be keeping your sanity, but when the attention can turn to music, I'm really grateful.

47:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, thank you very much. [SPEAKER_03]: I hope we have a mantra record to send you by the end of summer. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, who great talking to you. [SPEAKER_02]: Alright, thanks, Brad. [SPEAKER_03]: It was great talking to you. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you too, man. [SPEAKER_02]: There you go.

47:26 [SPEAKER_02]: A little bonus there with Brad Roberts of Creshtus. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, and my thanks to Tom Cavanott, you're killing me playing now on Acorn TV. [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks to you for checking out the episode. [SPEAKER_02]: Do hit that subscribe button while you're hanging around to keep up with all the interviews that we put out every single week at Spotify, Apple podcast, NPR, WFPK dot org consequence.

47:45 [SPEAKER_02]: You too for the video versions anywhere you get your podcast from you can subscribe to Kyle Meredith with and Please to give this here. [SPEAKER_02]: It's a rating leave a review if you feel so inspired After that you can head over to wfpk.org It's right to a show Monday through Friday starting 6 p.m. Eastern.

48:01 [SPEAKER_02]: It's four hours of classics from the 80s and 90s It's a classic alternative new indie rock in Americana [SPEAKER_02]: You get the best in new music, bonus interviews, lots of music and film news as well. [SPEAKER_02]: One of my recent shows, in fact, featured some classics and favorites from Tom Weights, Tank in the Bangers, the Munkies, Tom Petty, Springsteen, the Ramones, Ultravox, Monsoon, Kathleen Hoy, Sam, Philips, Jason Isbel, and my interviews with Taj Mahal, Michael Chickless, Simon Hellberg, Billy Magnison, Paul Adelstein, Barbie Ferreira, Sabrina Carpenter, [SPEAKER_02]: of what you get when you tune in weeknight starting 6 p.m. Eastern and WFPK dot ORG.

48:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Consequence has your music and film news. [SPEAKER_02]: You can also find me on any of the social media sites. [SPEAKER_02]: The address is always at Kyle Mirth. [SPEAKER_02]: Please do like, follow along. [SPEAKER_02]: That does it for another edition. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Kyle Mirth. [SPEAKER_02]: I'll see you next time.

49:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Consequence podcast network, it's easy to hear your favorite artist on WFPK from wherever you are. [SPEAKER_00]: Listen on your smart speaker, live stream from our website at WFPK.org from Louisville Public Media.