“The Godsister” with The Greenbush Twins

0:01 If you're listening right now to the Little House 50th Anniversary Podcast, we know something about you.

0:07 We know that you're obsessed with Little House on the Prairie.

0:10 For more than half a century, Little House on the Prairie, the series and the books have been bright lights for people all over the world who seek out goodness, decency, and human connection.

0:22 Here on the Little House 50th Anniversary Podcast, we celebrate everything that made Little House so special.

0:28 The stories, the characters, the actors, and the messages that have made Little House iconic family television.

0:35 And a perfect counterpoint to a world that feels like it's going off the rails every day.

0:40 Where is Michael Landon when we need him most? I'm your host, Pamela Bob.

0:45 And I'm your prairie bitch, Alison Arncrum.

0:48 And I'm Dean Butler.

0:50 Our hashtag imaginary boyfriend. Join us for our loving, quirky, and often irreverent conversations about the finest family drama in the history of television.

1:01 And the imperfect people who made it that way.

1:04 We are extremely grateful for the support of VisitSeeMeValley.com for their continuing sponsorship of Little House on the Prairie and the Little House 50th Anniversary Podcast. Hello, bonnet heads. Why do I always say something to make us laugh? Right as the record button starts. Every time. I guess it's nice to start with laughter.

1:27 It just occurred to me my eyes aren't sparkling.

1:30 Oh, no. Anyway.

1:34 Hi, everybody. How are you doing? Hello, bonnet heads. I am Pamela Bob, your host, creator, and star of Living on the Prairie. I'm cutting right to the chase. I'm here with our... Lovely, beloved prairie bitch, Alison Arngrim.

1:49 Yay!

1:49 And our hashtag imaginary boyfriend, Dean Butler.

1:53 Hello, guys.

1:54 How's it going? Yes, tis I.

1:57 Tis I.

1:58 How's life? What's happening?

2:02 I just took quickly. I'm in the old house kitchen of our house.

2:07 Family place in the, in Northern California with the old wood burning stove behind it and the bar, you can see that the bar is also there on the, on the kitchen stove.

2:18 We see how the Butler family rolls. Got it.

2:21 But anyway, so I'm there and, um, up here and up here for a period of time.

2:26 We are, I'm working on, um, my brother and sister and I are working on our mother's estate.

2:32 Yeah.

2:32 We talked about last week. He, she just, she.

2:35 Passed in August and, So we are doing what siblings do.

2:42 When a life has to be buttoned up.

2:47 You're fighting.

2:47 That's what we're doing.

2:48 No, please.

2:49 Hopefully you're not. Hopefully you're not fighting.

2:51 You're not fighting. Hopefully you guys are all copacit. You have nine siblings.

2:54 Yeah.

2:54 Oh, you know what?

2:55 That looks at it all. I said that cynically, but there is an ounce of truth to it.

3:00 Oh, it's very hard.

3:01 When things get hard, it's hard.

3:03 It's hard.

3:04 And family dynamics, even the best of family dynamics, it is rough, man. It's rough.

3:10 Yeah.

3:11 Sorry.

3:11 Hang in there. Hang in there.

3:13 Yeah, yeah. And Allison, what are you doing?

3:18 I'm answering. Wait, what have I got?

3:20 It's Michelangelo's David visit. Hello there, kids. Of course, because I'm in Paris and Yes, his apartment with all the weird things and.

3:30 All the collections.

3:32 David, because of course I'm in Paris, but that would be Florence.

3:36 Right, right.

3:37 Well, it's European.

3:38 They're European. There's so much weird.

3:40 This is like being in a museum slash comic book store, this house that I'm in. Next week I will be in an attic in Western France. You have a different theme, but I make more Western good.

3:52 Yes.

3:53 Excellent.

3:54 We're boarding in from different back bedrooms and attics. all over France.

4:00 Oh my gosh. How are your shows going?

4:02 Really well. I'm like five shows in, um, eight to go.

4:06 And, um, yeah, killing it, killing it. They, they're, they were loving it.

4:10 I'm, I'm, I love those pictures you send, um, Right? Of the bonnet heads, the French bonnet heads.

4:16 Yes, yes, these people came.

4:17 There was like people and a dude in a bonnet and a bunch of bonnets.

4:21 They were all going with their bonnets. And yeah, so absolutely.

4:27 People have come.

4:28 In interesting costumes and outfits and they've brought me all sorts of kooky gifts and things and presents and candy and wine and things they made. People have like knit things and needlepoint things.

4:41 And embroidered things and brought them to me. Yes.

4:44 I will say the, the bonnet and cosplay at events is quite impressive. It's quite impressive. And the gifts people give are also just so sweet.

4:55 Lovely.

4:55 Thanks.

4:56 Yeah.

4:56 Yeah.

4:56 Yeah.

4:57 Love the cause.

4:57 Very generous.

4:59 That's great. Alison. And I will say, and I forgot to say this on our premier episode, but I just want to tell the people that our merch store has been completely redesigned. We have new products on there. It's much easier to navigate. It looks great. We have new stuff. By the time this airs, we might have our holiday shop up. We probably should have our holiday shop up, but we have some new things going on and it's really exciting and love it. And also... perhaps by the time this drops, we do have a... We made an announcement on Patreon, and we will start incorporating this probably by next episode, that we've asked if you are a member of Patreon, if you are a Patreon subscriber. We want your video submissions of any questions that you might

5:49 have for us. And we are, at the end of every episode, going to choose one and air it and answer that question. It could be about the topic of the podcast that we are talking about, or it could be about anything. What's your favorite Chipotle order? I don't know. It could be....

6:07 I know mine.

6:08 Yeah, you have one? I have one too. Yeah, this is what the people want to know. That's why we're here for the pressing important questions. So anyway, that's really fun. So if you haven't joined us on Patreon, come on up. We're having fun. That's my... That's my pitch. There we go.

6:24 Excellent.

6:24 My shameful pitch.

6:25 Take us to the title.

6:26 Let's get into this episode. This episode is, first of all, I know the people are going to be wanting this episode. They've been asking for this episode. This is an episode that is very, it's a polarizing episode for the fans. And I was also polarized about this episode until I revisited it last night. And now my entire world has turned upside down because I freaking loved this episode. So we're going to talk all about it. It's about an Ingalls girl, not Laura or Mary, who needs a friend.

7:03 It's so sad. But first, she really did just need a friggin' friend. Okay, first, from UBN Go and visit SimiValley.com and you, our patrons, this is The Little House on the Prairie 50th Anniversary Podcast.

7:18 Do-do-do. Do-do-do.

7:33 Okay, Dean. Bring it to us, baby.

7:36 Okay.

7:36 All right.

7:38 Today, we are doing episode 102 of the series.

7:43 Yeah.

7:44 It is season five, episode 14, The God Sister. The God Sister premiered on Monday, December 18th, 1978, written by Don Ballack, produced by Kent McRae, directed by Michael Landon.

8:01 Allison, what is it about?

8:06 Well, this episode, and I'm sitting here with a, I did not receive a rundown either.

8:11 Oh, you were sent one.

8:15 Improvise, baby. Okay, so this episode, this is one.

8:20 Of the most controversial episodes ever. You'd think that our controversial episodes are the ones that deal with terrible subjects of drug abuse and death.

8:27 No, this is the controversial episode because this is.

8:30 The absolute ultimate Baby Carrie episode.

8:33 Baby Carrie.

8:33 This is where, the only time ever, we see both twins who play Baby Carrie at the same time on screen.

8:41 This is one of those things.

8:42 That never happens on TV.

8:43 How many TV shows, how many movies, they have twins playing little children?

8:46 No, no, you don't suddenly have the actor who's being played by twins suddenly be both on screen.

8:51 This never happens.

8:52 So that's freaky.

8:53 Also, there's this whole weird plot.

8:57 About Pa and Garvey going to install the first telephone line, which is like, I had forgotten this completely.

9:06 Exactly.

9:07 I start watching and I'm like, what is happening?

9:09 Oh, oh.

9:10 This is all about him going to the phone line, the drunk guy with potatoes.

9:13 He's making whiskey with potatoes.

9:15 Isn't that vodka? I'm so confused.

9:18 All kinds of weird stuff is going on in this episode.

9:22 But what got me about this episode, it got you.

9:27 Yes, we had all bought into the internet buzz of, oh.

9:30 It's a silly episode. It's a ridiculous episode.

9:33 It's a fluffy, adorable thing.

9:34 And listen, she's in heaven and giant strawberries.

9:38 No.

9:40 This is a heartbreaking episode.

9:42 Yes! I cried! Many times!

9:45 Did you really?

9:46 Ma leaves them for a month.

9:48 Ma even says, I'm so lonely when you go at night.

9:52 Like, putting it right out there.

9:55 Right out there. You put it right out there. And Mrs. Garvey as well.

10:00 I love the synopsis, by the way. It's all over the place. I'm here for it.

10:03 Everything is in this episode. All of this is happening in this episode. It's about a.

10:07 Little girl who really, really misses her pa.

10:10 Yes, that's what it's about ultimately.

10:11 And no one will play with her.

10:13 No one will freaking play with her.

10:15 There's too big an age gap She doesn't have a friend her age and everyone is busy.

10:20 Even the dog won't play with her.

10:24 This child is lost and abandoned and.

10:27 Heartbroken and terrified and despair. Well, frankly, she hallucinates. And that is the plot of this show. You know what, Dean?

10:37 From now on, Dean, from now on, we're just going to let Allison improvise this.

10:41 Yeah. This is awesome.

10:44 Yeah, that is what happens.

10:48 This poor child who has no one.

10:50 Create a friend.

10:52 But wait, there's more.

10:54 I think we should meet the poor children at the center of this story.

10:56 Yes, because we have straight from the source.

10:59 We have straight from the source.

11:00 Finally.

11:01 Dean, why don't you introduce them?

11:03 Well, listen, we this is the first time. So, yeah, they haven't been with us before. We were we were all together in Nashville.

11:11 And I had them on my show.

11:14 And you've been. Yes.

11:16 But we have we have Rachel and Sidney Greenbush joining us today. two parts of baby Carrie who both get seen in this very special episode that we're talking about today. And they're going to tell us everything. Rachel and Sydney, welcome to the Little House 50th Anniversary Podcast.

11:37 Hello!

11:37 Thank you so much.

11:39 We're so happy to have you guys.

11:41 This is really epic. I feel like this is a rite of passage.

11:46 We finally made it.

11:48 You know what?

11:49 I hope you don't take it personally. I have no idea why you haven't been on sooner than this. It was not a personal decision. I promise you that.

11:56 No, we all just get busy.

11:57 I understand.

11:57 Well, I did.

11:59 You were on.

12:00 Actually, the two of you are two of the busiest people in our cast.

12:04 We reach out to you.

12:06 We're busy, we're working, we have something.

12:08 So, yeah, you are always doing something.

12:11 Was it season one? One of you was on.

12:14 I was.

12:15 You were on.

12:16 Yeah, because we talked about recapping the Simi Valley event and my involvement.

12:23 Yes, yes, yes. It was just a long time ago.

12:25 Yes, you and Danny with all the dolls and the mannequins.

12:28 Yes, and we did not recap the God Sister, which is, you know, the big, the big, elephant in the room we gotta recap the god sister all right where i mean where should we even start i mean why do you think you guys this episode has been like a really polarizing episode like people hate this episode and people love this episode what and i had a completely different experience watching it as an adult and as a mother and i felt horrible shame and guilt that i didn't realize The psychological damage that poor baby Carrie was going through.

13:02 I never dawned on me what this poor child was going through until I watched it last night. So what do you think it is?

13:11 Well, it goes really far away from the books and it enters like, you know, fantasy kind of fairy god sister thing.

13:20 Totally.

13:21 And I don't think people were really ready for that because usually all the issues were pretty true to current things that were going on or had happened, you know. And so it's really kind of a left turn from the norm.

13:35 Of the show. I also think that, you know, as an actor.

13:39 You always have, you know, you always look back and you kind of think, well, I could have done this or I could have done that in just a growth way. And Robin and I had never been the story, like we had no, it was like a lot of, of pressure. And then my mom was out of town and our dad was taking us to work and that's a whole other sideline.

14:03 So you were going through a real baby Carrie moment in real life.

14:09 My dad, you told him no, and he's going to do it just because you said no. And so like, there's this whole etiquette on set and my dad being an actor, you know, he's always thinks the rules don't apply to him. And that's a whole lot. There's just a lot going on.

14:24 Oh no.

14:25 Now I want, before we get too far into the episode, something occurs.

14:30 This has always been a.

14:33 Source of uncertainty for me, your names and how your names present. So you're Lindsay Sidney Greenbush credited.

14:46 Lindsay Sidney Greenbush. But you go by like half a dozen other names.

14:51 Yeah, because then there's Robin, there's Rachel, there's Sidney, there's nicknames.

14:55 And then there's the middle names.

14:57 Do the middle names.

14:58 The middle names are crazy.

15:01 My actual first name is Sidney. And so I always go by both names, Sidney Robin, because it's less confusing for people.

15:11 My middle name is actually Danae.

15:13 That's just my real name.

15:18 I'm like, I don't even know how to process that right now.

15:23 Okay.

15:23 My mom wanted us to have choices. So all of her kids, she gave, you know, four names to. So my brother is William Clay Joseph Bush, but he goes by Clay and he doesn't go by William because my dad is a William, you know?

15:37 I kind of love that idea.

15:38 And so Rachel is Rachel and I'm Renee.

15:42 But then, okay, on the screen, you're Green Bush, but Sydney, you also go by just Bush. So you say Sydney Bush. So what's the deal there?

15:53 So my dad's middle name is Warren, and he grew up in the South, and he hates the middle name Warren because it gets drawn out, and it's like Billy Warren, you know? And so his grandfather, who pretty much raised him, was named, his first name was Green.

16:13 So his literal name was Green Bush.

16:16 So my dad took it as his middle name when he started acting as a homage to his grandfather. So if you look at my dad's acting credits, it's actually Billy, Green, and Bush. But because they were already putting Lindsey Sidney in there, they kind of put the Green Bush and smushed it.

16:34 I think there might have been a limitation on the characters, and that was the easiest way.

16:39 Sure, just eliminate the space.

16:42 But it was a family name that had been handed down was Green William... Bush. And so my dad did put the green back in there. He also used to always say that my grandmother, he hated the way that my grandmother would say Warren, but he didn't want to go by that, but you know, being, you know, you gotta have, you know, two names, Billy Green, Joe Bob, you know, Betty Sue. And, you know, it's just, it's just the way it is in the South.

17:11 Yeah.

17:12 Right.

17:12 Okay. So his, I'm sorry. So he was Billy Green.

17:15 No.

17:16 He was William Warren.

17:17 William Warren.

17:18 William Warren.

17:19 Bush.

17:19 William Warren.

17:20 But he didn't like it, so he became... Billy Green. Green Bush.

17:25 Yeah, and then when you made it one word, Green Bush.

17:30 We didn't have any choice over it becoming one word. My actual first work permit when we did Sunshine, it's two words. But when they were doing the titles for Little House, somehow... That typo or that, however, why ever that happened, I don't know. But it forever changed our names.

17:50 So then where's the- It was never supposed to be one word. Who's the Lindsay? Who's the Lindsay in Lindsay Sidney Greenberg? Okay.

17:58 So it's Rachel Lindsay. But you go by Lindsay.

18:00 Rachel Lindsay and Sidney Robin.

18:02 So wait, Sidney Robin, Sidney Robin, Janae, and then Rachel.

18:07 Lindsay and what's yours?

18:09 Renee.

18:10 Renee.

18:11 My mom always named me after a poet, and his name was Rachel Lindsay, and he was a poet, and that's who my mother named me after, Rachel Lindsay.

18:21 It's a twin thing that the names have to rhyme. So it's Sidney Robin Danae and Rachel Lindsay.

18:27 Renee, right?

18:28 So you get to that naming scheme eventually.

18:32 I'm still totally confused.

18:35 But sometimes you go by. Sometimes you go by Robin. Sometimes you go by Sydney.

18:41 And to tell you the truth, I still go by Carrie because I have friends that want to call me Carrie.

18:46 Sure, of course. I'm sure that's true for both of you.

18:49 Our parents always called us Rachie and Robbie. That's what my dad would always call us.

18:53 Rachie and Robbie. Okay, Rachie and Robbie.

18:54 A story I heard when you guys were little, which I thought was terribly clever if true, was that with all.

19:00 The 8,000 names, Denae and Renee and the thing in green, that they said, okay, let's go with Lindsay Sidney on the credits, but you were more likely, when you're out in public, for your mom to call you Rachie and Robbie or Rachel and Robin or something.

19:14 So.

19:15 Weirdo stalkers. Yeah. And they go, oh, they're not answering to that. Wait, that's weird. And then they get, yes.

19:24 Okay.

19:24 And now add to that what Michael did calling you the bunge.

19:29 Now, are you both.

19:31 The bunge or is it bunge one, bunge two?

19:33 What is, how does that work? Are you both just bunge? Unilaterally.

19:38 I think he made a nickname for us. So he didn't have to pay attention to if it was Robin.

19:43 Honestly, honestly, credit.

19:46 That could be a thing.

19:52 I'm pretty sure.

19:54 A lot of the crew were older guys and there was a lot of, come here, darling, sweetie, kitten, kitten, darling. There's still more names because you had the darling, darling little mini tiny director's chairs that said Foxy Robin and Sugar Lump.

20:12 Sugar Lump.

20:13 Those were my dad's nicknames for us.

20:16 Foxy Robin and Sugar Lump.

20:17 Yeah, those were my dad's nicknames for us.

20:19 That's so cute.

20:20 My grandmother, my.

20:21 Dad's mom, her nickname growing up was Sugar.

20:26 I love that there's a family.

20:28 He nicknamed me after... And, you know, I was kind of the chubby one, too, so I became Sherlock.

20:35 No!

20:35 And then she outfoxed Dr. Fox because my parents didn't know they were having twins. So that's how he got Foxy Robin because she was the second born and my parents didn't know they were going to have twins.

20:47 Oh, my gosh.

20:48 Wow.

20:51 So sometimes my dad refers to me as his bonus baby because my parents literally didn't know they were having twins until Rachel was already delivered. No. And we're only three minutes apart, so they didn't have time to think about it.

21:04 Oh, my gosh.

21:05 The doctor's like, oh, wait, keep brushing.

21:07 There's another one.

21:08 Yeah.

21:08 Oh, my gosh. And this isn't the 1800s.

21:10 This isn't even like the 1950s.

21:11 What is this?

21:13 This is like the late 60s, early 70s.

21:16 Yeah, late, early 70s, right?

21:18 You know what, though?

21:18 I have to say. There's an eight-year age difference between my two kids, and the technology eight years later was vastly different than it was. I mean, it doesn't take a lot for the science to advance incredibly.

21:34 And the other funny thing is my mom was smaller in size carrying Rachel and I than she was with my brother.

21:41 What?

21:42 And so she complained throughout her whole pregnancy because she kept telling the doctor something was wrong. And so the doctor kept saying, oh, no, your second pregnancy is different.

21:51 You're fine.

21:51 Everything's normal. And he never, ever really checked her for twins.

21:56 Even knowing that twins runs in her.

21:59 Family because her mother had had conjoined twins when she was little.

22:03 Oh, yes.

22:04 It ended up being a blessing because my mom would have been really scared because. My uncles were connected at the hips.

22:11 Yeah.

22:12 So they have one set of hips, but they had two sets of spines.

22:15 Wow.

22:16 And it was a really evasive surgery for my grandmother to go through. And my mom remembers it just traumatically.

22:23 Of course.

22:24 My grandmother's recovery.

22:25 So my mom would have been scared had she known. So it ended up being a true blessing that.

22:31 She didn't know.

22:32 Wow.

22:33 Holy.

22:33 I can imagine she would have worried so much wondering.

22:36 Yeah.

22:37 Yeah. Wow.

22:38 So what, But this can't have been before... What's the procedure now that you can put the.

22:44 The ultrasound?

22:45 Yeah, right. Was this prior to that being available?

22:49 But they still had stethoscopes and could listen.

22:52 So, compared to heartbeats, for sure.

22:55 Yeah, for my grandmother, it probably was. Yeah, before the.

22:58 Yeah, for your grandmother. Right.

22:59 Yeah, it was my grandmother.

23:00 Yeah, so it probably was.

23:02 Wow, what a tale.

23:04 My grandmother probably would have been in about.

23:06 1944, 45-ish, because my mom was born in 39 and she was probably about six at the time because she remembers it fairly clearly and the stigma of it, of having conjoined twins at that time.

23:24 Wow.

23:24 Well, let's just say we can jump ahead here a little bit saying that you both were absolutely adorable. I remember the first time I saw you in the in the in the Sunshine movie. I was just happened to be in front of the television on that night and saw the two of you and you were absolutely so adorable.

23:53 And Michael obviously saw that and and brought you on.

23:58 But you're so lovely together. in this episode.

24:04 There's just a real sweet, now I realize as I'm looking at the two of you, because we never see you together on screen until this episode, the teeth are different. So there's the little gap in the teeth and that, okay.

24:18 I still was trying to figure out who's who, and they got me in this episode. I still was stumped as to who is who.

24:25 And when they were little, one of them had more freckles on her nose. I used to count the freckles.

24:30 Who had more freckles? Somebody had more freckles on their nose.

24:36 Yeah, if I had a dollar for every time somebody told me, okay, wait, turn around.

24:41 Okay, you're Robin.

24:44 Well, we both traded off playing Alyssa because, of course, both of us wanted to be the fairy god sisters.

24:50 So we ended up trading off.

24:52 So it's fun because people go back and try and figure out who's Alyssa when and in what scene and when it goes back and forth. I will say that Sydney got to be Alyssa a little bit more than I did because there wasn't an even.

25:08 Amount of scenes.

25:10 Uh-oh.

25:10 Years later.

25:11 So you, so, all right, so Rachel, you were getting the stories. You got the, you were in bed and Michael's reading you the story.

25:21 Yeah, that's Robin. Stumped.

25:26 I'm stumped.

25:27 I won't even try and figure out.

25:29 I watched this episode back the other day and I didn't realize how much of this episode I actually was in because it's me telling Melissa she doesn't read the story right either. And I'm very put out with it because she doesn't want to take the time to read the story.

25:45 No.

25:46 But she does.

25:47 Everyone is so very mean.

25:48 Just forget it.

25:49 It's just not right.

25:50 Yeah, right.

25:53 Well, of course, as children, we want to hear stories in a particular way. If we've been told a story by a member of our family, we want to hear it that way.

26:03 And we learn it that way.

26:04 And we probably, before we have ever any possibility of reading, could recite these stories back that we've heard perfectly as they have been told to us by the person who we've loved hearing the story from.

26:17 I think of this with our own grandson that.

26:21 He there's no way he could read these books, but he could turn the pages exactly.

26:25 Oh, yeah.

26:26 As they were and recite it with the exact intonation that his mother.

26:30 Henry used to memorize, memorize word for word.

26:33 Because the photo on the page is actually a visual trigger.

26:37 Yeah.

26:37 The photo on the page is a trigger for him.

26:39 Totally.

26:40 OK, so I have there's so much to talk about.

26:42 OK, good. Jump in here. So much going on.

26:45 Okay, first, I just have to apologize because I did not realize until I watched it last night as an adult and I think more importantly as a mother, like as someone who has kids, just how... this episode was really a child psychologist's dream. This episode. Because truly, you know, there's this fantasy world in it, which is only also, I forgot, really only half of the episode, if even that.

27:16 I mean, there's a whole other plot line which is incredible going on. That's a serious adult plot line with Michael Landon and Jonathan Garvey and Pa. But it really, truly is about this little girl whose father goes away. She's scared he's gonna get killed while he's out of town, like anyone would during that time. She's lonely. She does not have a single friend, which is devastating. And the dog won't even hang out with her. I mean, it's just like everyone has such contempt for Carrie in this episode.

27:51 I mean, I think Carrie gets a bad rap anyway.

27:53 It's not contempt, people are busy.

27:55 Oh, my God.

27:55 People are so put out by her. It's ridiculous. And no one's listening to maybe her. She has fears. And that's why she's everyone just is too preoccupied. Melissa Gilbert is awful to you. They're all awful to you. Even more.

28:13 Even more.

28:14 Yeah, Carrie's just being a kid. She's trying to help.

28:16 Of course she can't carry the sheets off the ground.

28:19 But Ma's like, go fishing! Just go fishing!

28:22 Listen, and they're all stressed. I get it. And listen, when Ma was even not nice to you, Margo even was like, Ma's not even nicer. And I was like, girl, I can relate. Believe me, when you're tired and your kid is trying to keep you up in the middle of the night, I get it. I get it. But anyway, so it really dawned on me for the very first time how sad this episode is for Carrie. And that this fantasy world isn't just about we're going to have fun on the prairie. It really came out of this dark psychological trauma that this little girl was going through.

28:55 I like the way they left it, though. They left it in like, was it fantasy or was it not? Was it an angel? And I like that they kind of left it up to your own discretion to discern how you think the story should end. Was it just a make-believe person or was she visited by an angel? Yeah.

29:14 Well, when you go to heaven, that's a really, really interesting little moment.

29:23 It's not abnormal either for children to have make-believe friends at all. And of course, there's an episode where Jack passes away, which is a big episode. So Carrie's not only missing Pa, she's missing Jack, who used to play with her. Because in the very... early seasons, like in Ma's Holiday, Carrie's seen sitting around a lot with Jack, like by the laundry pole and stuff like that. But fun fact, when we were filming that particular scene.

29:54 we were.

29:54 At Paramount and down the way they were shooting the very first episode of Mork & Mindy, which was actually filmed in front of a live audience, which was a new concept.

30:06 And I got to go.

30:08 Sit in the audience and when they broke in the middle, they brought me back to come shoot the scene with Jack. So I got to see a little bit of what it was like at that time to film in front of a live studio audience, which is.

30:22 Something I had never seen before.

30:24 So when I think of The God Sister, I always remember that because that was a luxury for being on Paramount with the other series that were there.

30:35 I have to say, when Jack appeared, which I had forgotten about, I think that's the first time I really cried. I was like, oh my God, the dog is here. She's saying, I love you, Jack. I was just like, why did I have contempt for this episode? I don't understand what's wrong with me.

30:51 No idea.

30:52 I actually felt really bad for that dog because he had that really long, long hair. And then they were running the smoke machines. It was like I got to hear on him. And then you had all those big hot lights and everything. That poor dog was panting so bad. They were taking precautions. But even for me and probably for everyone, Rachel too, in our dress, our petticoat, our bloomers, our stockings, our shoes, it was fairly warm. And this was probably at about six or seven o'clock at night, you know, but the studio has to be all, the doors are all down cause you can't have any background noise, but it was a lot for that dog to deal with.

31:35 So I give him a lot of credit and credit to his handler for prepping him for that scene. Cause that wasn't an easy one for an animal.

31:44 Can I ask just logistics, like the Alyssa scenes where it's the giant strawberries and the giant garden and the giant penny and you've shrunk down and everything's large and even the heaven scene, how were those filmed? Were there actual. Props, the big berry props, or was that all?

32:04 No CGI back then.

32:05 There were props in front of.

32:07 The green screen.

32:10 In front of the green screen.

32:11 The only real prop that I really remember being something tangible was the big berry that was made out of balloons. Behind the balloons was a pot or pan of juice, kind of syrupy, kind of thick berry juice that And then behind Robin or Sydney and I was the green screen.

32:34 So I had to go.

32:36 Duck down behind this big balloon berry, which really looked more like a grape because it was so big, and take a balloon that was in the pan and kind of swirl it in the juice and then rub it on my face like this to look like I had bitten into it, and then pop up and say, Yum. Penny was never there. When we're trying to lift the penny, we have, like, the sandbags that they put on the lights to keep them from blowing over in the wind.

33:07 And so we're actually just.

33:08 Yeah, because they have a handle.

33:09 So we're pulling on the handle.

33:13 But most of the.

33:13 CGI, the spider and all the fruit, like, on the side of the path when it chases me and stuff like that.

33:19 Yeah.

33:19 And that was kind of interesting because they actually... herded that spider to turn and kind of run more after me but when I was running um I was running in front of the green screen but you could look over at the television and see all the like fruit that you're running through which was kind of interesting and then you could see it in the screen that spider to turn off like that and go after.

33:43 Me yes it was a process that they call It's a process they call magic cam, which was like cutting edge at that time. I mean, it looked great. Next to the room that we're in with the green screen, there's a separate room with a table set out on it, which has all the little miniatures on it. So as we're walking, that camera is panning down the miniatures, and then they're superimposing it.

34:09 Like they do the weather report. Magic cam.

34:12 Wow.

34:13 Yeah, and the funny thing is that spider, because it was black, it wouldn't show up on film very well. So one of the guys got out their little makeup and they actually painted that spider. Which I can't imagine trying to do. But then Rachel's right. They did hurt it to go where they wanted it to go down the little pathway. So these two things are running simultaneously.

34:37 As we're walking and hitting our marks, they're panning down the way. And all we're seeing is a lot of green and then the balloons for the For the fruit. And then Rachel's got to pretend like she took a bite of something, but she can't actually bite it because she would pop it.

34:55 So all of this is being captured.

34:59 So the composite is happening right there.

35:03 Yeah.

35:04 It's like it's not being composited in later. It's they're doing some sort of a merging process right there on set.

35:15 I think that's fascinating. I had no idea.

35:18 I feel there had to be some live props because you need those foreground elements. But to know that it's being merged right there, that's wild.

35:28 Yeah, it was a cutting edge at that time.

35:30 That would have been the height of technology. That's all they had.

35:34 It was the same thing in the Heaven episode. I actually don't see, and Rachel doesn't see, St. Peter, but we do see the gates. The gates are there.

35:43 So there are real gates in front of you, but we don't see him.

35:46 Oh, they're in another room.

35:47 Right, so there's a, yes. The gates were practical. The person was compositive.

35:52 Right.

35:53 Right.

35:54 Yeah, no, there's, Michael was very interested.

36:00 I mean, Michael was a wonderful film person. I think he loved play in.

36:04 This space of trying out things that were new.

36:07 I mean, Michael was one of the first ones to use the Steadicam with Garrett Brown, who created Steadicam. He was one of the first to adopt that on television, use that for a football game or a baseball game or whatever the story was.

36:21 He was very.

36:26 He was very interested in all of that. He didn't shy away from it. I think that's awesome that you got to be in that space. And your reality was so different from what the reality of the audience was as we watch it.

36:40 It's funny. Sometimes it's fun to explain these things to people sometimes, like when we're doing interviews and stuff like that, because. You know, there's episodes where we're in Mankato and we're watching fireworks and we're like, ooh, ah. But it's really just different colored filters they're putting in front of the doors.

36:58 You know, you don't see fireworks.

37:00 Nope.

37:00 You just have these different colored lights cast on you.

37:03 They're like, what?

37:04 You weren't watching fireworks?

37:05 No, no. Now, I have a question because, like, okay, you both got to be Alyssa. I love that whole thing because people watch and go, oh, well, one of them is being Carrie and one of them is being Alyssa.

37:15 Nah.

37:16 Because the kids, they wanted to be with someone.

37:18 So now it's like, okay, it's four things are happening and it's totally confusing. But Carrie and Alyssa are quite different. So Carrie is clearly this sort of like goofy, awkward, misfit, youngest child nobody wants to play with.

37:33 She's kind of shy.

37:35 Alyssa, is very confident because she's the goddess.

37:41 She's got a flower wreath.

37:42 On her head, and she's beautiful and pretty dressed, and she can go to heaven and make giant pennies and giant strawberries and abracadabra.

37:49 So she's like, hey, what's up?

37:50 And how weird was that when you've been playing the same character of, you know, poor, put-upon Carrie, and now you're taking turns playing this rather confident little girl who's a magic princess?

38:04 It wasn't strange at all because as an actor... You do different roles all the time. You know, we were doing commercials and stuff. We did Double Minkum and Mardi Gras towels and Hallmark and we did all that stuff. So we were always like stepping in and out of roles. And I think even in our real life, it felt like, we were stepping in and out of worlds, right? Because we were going to regular school, called Rachel and Robin, and then we're stepping into the Little House world, and we're Lindsay and Cisney. So it always is like just putting on different hats. But as an actor, you know that's part of the job is playing different characters.

38:43 It must have been a nice change, though.

38:45 I know, it must have been great.

38:48 Carrie's always like, I can't do anything, no one will play with me. And then you've got to be in charge.

38:54 It was a nice change, and I think that's why we both wanted to play Alyssa and why my mom felt it wasn't fair to only let one of us do it. So they tried to split it as even as they could because we had been playing Carrie for so long at that point. We were both eager to do something a little different.

39:13 Sure.

39:15 Let's take a little break here and– And come back, and we want to talk about, we'll continue talking about the episode, but also we want to talk about the Greenbush twins and what you're doing with that.

39:27 So, Pamela, take us to a little break.

39:30 We'll be right back with the Greenbush twins the pioneers to the presidents explore beautiful wildflowers hike through iconic Hollywood locations and end.

39:43 Your day aboard the actual Air Force One at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and Museum Throughout the summer, take the Little House 50th Anniversary Tour.

39:54 At Big Sky Movie Ranch.

39:56 Less than 15 minutes from Los Angeles and 30 minutes from Universal Studios, Simi Valley has small-town charm with big-time history. Go to visitsimivalley.com for more information. We are so grateful to visitsimivalley.com for their commitment to presenting the Little House 50th Anniversary Podcast.

40:19 All right, we're back with the Greenbush twins. Two things I want to say to you guys. First of all, my big revelation, my other big revelation watching this last night, was that I realize you guys sound exactly like, and I know everyone rats on you for Carrie Speaks and the way you spoke and la, la, la, la, la.

40:39 But first of all, adorable in this episode. Second of all, you sound exactly like Sally Brown from Merry Christmas, Charlie Brown. and the great pumpkin, Charlie Brown. You sound exactly like, like I closed my eyes and I was like, this is Sally from those very early Charlie Brown episodes.

40:57 That's awesome.

40:59 Rewatch it, rewatch it. In fact, if I can get a little clip, maybe we'll post a side-by-side comparison. It is, it is. You sound exactly, yes. Oh my God, you sound just like her, which is a huge compliment, by the way, because she's- I.

41:10 Mean, I loved those questions too. As a kid, that was like, Such a big deal every year when you got to say.

41:17 You're the greatest pumpkin and all that stuff.

41:19 The CBS special.

41:21 Yes. And second of all, you know, I had completely forgotten that there was an entire episode entirely other plot happening in this episode. Like, I was watching it going, wait, what? Oh, there's a whole other story happening here, which is the Paw and Jonathan Garvey going off to build telephone poles to, because telephones are finally coming out west. And this entire story about how brutal it was for them to make the $ 50 on a bonus.

41:53 Right.

41:56 And how cool it was, for me anyway, I thought it was really, really cool. I like when actual historical, you know, because this is fantasy prairie. Michael Landon's prairie was fantasy prairie. But when they actually have historically, and I shouldn't say accurate because I don't even know if this is accurate. I want to think that this maybe is an historically accurate part of this episode, which is installing...

42:18 these telephone poles and the very first time they ever talk on a telephone and how crazy and exciting that must have been. I was watching this episode with my daughter who loved every moment of this episode, but talking to her about what it must have been like to have this new invention where you can talk to anyone all over the world. I mean, what a time to be alive. We think we're fancy now, but the telephone truly...

42:45 It was a total game changer. I loved seeing that.

42:49 Yeah.

42:50 I don't know. Do you think that was accurate, them installing these telephone poles at this time?

42:54 I think it was fairly accurate. But one of the things I noticed when I watched it back is when they first show them where they go to work to put the lines in, there's a big, huge field with all these old telephone poles there.

43:07 So then I thought, well, did Michael put all those in?

43:10 And then surely he would have had to pull them all out when he was done. So, like, the crew would have been there for weeks ahead of time putting in these telephone poles to shoot that scene.

43:21 The production value on this one, yeah, there was a lot. I mean, the exploding house at the end.

43:26 That was a tremendous explosion.

43:28 There was a lot going on in this episode.

43:30 Yeah, Shaughnessy blows everything up trying to make his Irish whiskey.

43:33 Potato whiskey.

43:34 It should have been vodka.

43:36 Vodka, right?

43:37 Yeah.

43:41 I mean, I'm not a big alcohol person, but I at least even know that potatoes you make vodka.

43:46 And Michael knew the difference for sure.

43:49 Yeah.

43:50 For sure.

43:51 Historically accurate. The telegram, the telegraph existed before the phone. So they had put up poles in many places for the telegraph wires. And when they got the phone going and the electricity, they went, oh, well, now we got it. So they had some places where they were able to use the existing telegraph pole infrastructure and then run lines on that. But then, of course, obviously they were expanding it too. everywhere and it was quite the ordeal. Yeah, it would have been a lot like that.

44:23 And of course, this episode was a setup for the later episode when the phone actually comes to Walnut Grove, which is another one of my favorite episodes because Harriet's running the switchboard and she's listening in on everybody.

44:36 Yes, sure is. Walnut Grove! But it must have been so, it must just have been so amazing to talk on the telephone.

44:46 It just.

44:47 Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. Okay, so there's that whole other plot, terrible conditions. Oh, also Swagger, the guy who's the head of the, what would you call him, the foreman?

44:57 Yes, he's the foreman.

44:58 The foreman, wasn't he the dad from Gimme a Break?

45:02 Yes, he was.

45:02 Correct me if I'm wrong.

45:03 He was.

45:03 Yes, he was the dad from Gimme a Break, who then died. after the first couple seasons of Jimmy Brink. I'm an 80s girl, I know these things. Okay, back to the Greenbush twins.

45:16 See, we just wander everywhere.

45:17 You know, I watched so much television in the 80s. It's insane. It was the era.

45:25 You know, Michael was so brilliant. The people that we got to work with, the actors that came on and off that show and the storylines that he would write for some of them. I mean, we just got... So spoiled with the people that we got to work with.

45:39 Truly.

45:40 Truly.

45:41 Phenomenal people. Yeah. Entered the vortex, but still, glad we had them for one episode.

45:50 No, you know, what was nice is it was a nice, it was a nice.

45:54 Contrast from, and we got to see that, we got to see that Pa and Jonathan were off doing something really hard and working hard to do it, to get home with this money.

46:06 So that they could take care of their families.

46:09 And then, of course, we have the flip side of that, which is baby Carrie longing and missing.

46:15 Pa and all that. The episode works. It really works.

46:20 Well as an A-B story. It's a really good A-B story.

46:27 Yeah, I mean, everybody would have to step up, you know? And so everybody has to take on new responsibilities because now Pa's gone. Yeah. That's the way that that would really operate, so.

46:39 Yeah.

46:41 I felt so bad about the penny because her only thing was, I'm going to buy my father some candy and I've got this penny and now I've lost it.

46:48 I was like, oh my God.

46:49 The whole thing had to break down.

46:52 Everybody is so worried about Carrie losing the penny. But you got to ask yourself, how.

46:56 Did Carrie get these pennies to begin with?

46:58 Because she buys the star. She has a penny that she loses. Like, she's not doing chores.

47:04 Because obviously she has time to go fishing. Well, no one wants her.

47:08 No one wants her.

47:08 Listen, let's give Carrie some credit. She wants to help.

47:14 She is there to pitch in.

47:15 Yes, I want to be a part of this.

47:16 Every time.

47:17 And they're like, go away. Instead of helping me with the laundry, go frolic alone in the forest next to water.

47:27 That's right.

47:28 How is she so good at picking berries knowing they're not even ripe enough.

47:32 To be picked?

47:33 And poor Carrie, she's like, I don't even have enough for a pie.

47:36 I said to my daughter, I was like, would you feel comfortable? Because I think she's probably the same age. How old were you guys? Do you remember when you filmed this one?

47:43 78 is when it was.

47:46 So we would have been eight.

47:48 Eight.

47:49 So same age as Margo. And I said to her, would you feel safe or comfortable walking alone through a forest? And she was like, no way. Off you go.

47:59 Just go.

48:00 Go alone in the woods.

48:01 Leave me alone.

48:02 I think, you know, we've talked about this many times before. I don't think Michael allowed that kind of practical reality to exist. to interfere with what we've talked well the other episode that we talked about extensively which you weren't with us to talk about was going to the fair where you end up in the balloon and floating away and paws chasing after you and all the craziness that went on in that episode which we can't go into we're not going to go into right now but really interesting parental decisions made in that episode.

48:37 And in this one as well. Free range parenting in the 1800s.

48:40 Free range parenting?

48:42 Yeah.

48:43 I mean, they probably did frolic through the... I mean, they lived in the wilderness. Of course they're going to go alone. I'm sure it was very normal just for, you know, the modern age.

48:55 You're like.

48:55 Well, even with Pa's work, it was this imminent danger as a regular thing.

49:00 He's going off and Ma's worried.

49:02 Oh, my God. Because remember, while he's gone for a month, she can't call him and go, Hey, is Pa alive?

49:06 Did you die in an accident? They don't know.

49:09 And we've had by then, by 78, previous episodes involving dynamite and dangerous things where people did get horribly injured and killed.

49:18 So him going- right?

49:21 And falling out of trees. And breaking his ribs. Every time he goes to work, it is horribly, horribly dangerous. And the family is all panicked.

49:29 Yeah, it's very legit.

49:31 You know, I think as we come to the... came to the end of this episode, one of the really lovely things.

49:39 Pa comes home and immediately you want to meet your friend.

49:45 Right.

49:45 And so you take Pa by the hand and you lead him to the forest and you call for Alyssa. And then, of course, she doesn't come because she doesn't come. And the scene, all right.

50:02 Who played the scene with Michael at the end?

50:06 I think it was me.

50:07 Okay.

50:07 It might have been Rachel.

50:09 Uh-oh.

50:10 What's that?

50:11 They both said it was me.

50:14 Sure.

50:15 Both of you, just claim it.

50:17 Just claim it.

50:20 It's a lovely scene.

50:21 It is.

50:22 It's a lovely, lovely scene. And Michael is so good with whichever one of you it was.

50:28 Actually, I think Robin's right.

50:29 I think it is Robin.

50:31 There's always the possibility that we both did a scene. Yeah, that is true. When we filmed the part where Alyssa takes Carrie to heaven, in the beginning of that scene, I'm Alyssa and Rachel is Carrie. But then at the very end when she gets down and hugs Jack, the actual clip that they used is me hugging Jack and then it goes back to me being Alyssa. So there is some Crossover sometimes where we both did a certain.

51:03 Scene, but because it's like, you know, it's location-based really If I was Carrie and I was running from the spider and they're filming it up in Sonora Then I'm gonna be Carrie that whole day and any scene we did that day, you know And and so part of receiving that flower before we go to heaven was on that location so that's why I start that segment but But Robin ends up being scary when we get there.

51:33 I know we talked briefly about it. I loved the Jack recall. And now you talked about how hot it was on the stage for the dog. And that obviously we never want to see dogs. We never want to see anybody uncomfortable. But obviously a lot of heat there. But as a storytelling device.

51:54 Oh my gosh.

51:55 That was a wonderful thread pull through an earlier time in the series where Jack was so beloved.

52:01 And there's Jack and your friend.

52:03 And we see Jack jump up out of the fog.

52:07 And run to you.

52:09 I just thought that was very, very lovely and how that was done.

52:13 It was great.

52:14 It's funny because that episode, I think, for me and maybe for Rachel, too, was kind of like, we crossed over into adulthood kind of a thing because there was a scene where we filmed the penny and then the scene where Paul.

52:29 Leaves and I run up and I jump up on the fence.

52:32 Those both were single takes, right? So it was like, you're so nervous because you've been given this responsibility and you want to deliver. And so when the scene ends and Michael says, you know, cut, print, let's go to the next thing. You're like, I did it.

52:50 I did it.

52:51 So how did you guys feel? We didn't even ask this. How did you guys feel?

52:55 What?

52:56 I mean, did you know you were getting a Carrie episode? You were five seasons in already. Did you just get the script that week and go, oh my gosh, it's about us?

53:05 Yeah.

53:06 Yeah.

53:06 And how did you feel about it?

53:08 Were you nervous or excited?

53:10 I don't know if my mom knew, but we didn't know until we had the script. And then, like I said, my dad took us to work mostly at that time because my mom left to take my grandmother back to Italy to see family. And so my dad took us to work. And so I still have the script, actually. And it's got all my dad's footnotes and notations of what day and stuff like that. But I don't think we didn't know. But then it was just presented to us when it was time to start filming.

53:51 My mom used to tell a story that she ran into... the writer of The God Sister on the set.

53:57 Don Ballack.

53:59 Don.

53:59 And Don was telling her he had wrote this really cool script about Carrie and blah, blah, blah. And so my mom used to like to drop seeds. And so she came across Michael. and told Michael, you know, Dawn's got this script and you've got this really wonderful opportunity here.

54:18 You know, she just kind of like laid it out there.

54:20 And then later, Michael actually, he did a few, I think they did a few revisions and then the God Sister episode was sent to us to film.

54:29 Nice.

54:31 How, I want to know how, before we started recording, I said this to you guys, which is, I don't know of a single other character where the chemistry and the connection between a parent and their children is stronger than how Michael Landon was on Little House on the Prairie. With all the children, especially his own children, it's just prolific how strong his connection and chemistry was with all of you. And so I'm curious as to what it was like with him directing you really in your first sort of starring role in the series. Do you remember him coaching?

55:16 I mean, for me personally, I always wanted a little more feedback. I didn't understand as a child the way that Michael works. And if you were doing what he wanted you to do, he kind of let you do your thing, whether you were going to kind of explore, you know, something or and see if it worked or or, you know, or if you were just going to do it.

55:35 The way you thought.

55:36 I always kind of felt like I wanted him to say, you know, you're right on track. I need a little more of this. But it was not the way he operated. And I didn't understand that as a child. I do now as an adult. But as a child, you're just thinking about, you know, you've got people depending on you. And you need to be able to do this. And you're not really thinking about how to create.

56:01 Are you really? You're really at eight years old. You're processing that. That you have to do well here.

56:08 You feel the pressure.

56:11 You know people are dependent. So we always talk about these things that influenced us on our time on the show when we were young children. And I think, you know, Allison and Melissa and all of us will agree that we came out with this work ethic because people were depending on us to be there, to... be in costume, to not be late, to, you know, not make waves. And, of course, we played and stuff like that.

56:41 You know, Mrs.

56:43 Fife would take us to hunt for fossils when we were on the ranch and break it up. And then we would go and Michael later built a weight.

56:52 Room at MGM.

56:54 So he exercised probably before he went home. But we would be out of school because we did our school and not in the scene, and we'd go play in the weight room, and you'd be lifting the weights like this, and all of a sudden the buzzer would go off, and you'd be like.

57:08 Because you have to be quiet.

57:10 On the bell, everybody, on the bell.

57:12 You're trying to just ease it on down.

57:16 Well, but also you had been raised on that set. You knew what the deal was. It wasn't your first time. When you're a.

57:22 Tiny child, you know it's a job. That's the thing with child actors. Even when you're really little, you know it is a job. Your parents or someone is like, now we're going to go do this. And you have to do what they're telling you. And you have to say yes or no, ma'am, and et cetera. And it's not like playtime. It's sort of like school. But worse, you have to do what these people.

57:42 Are telling you. This is a job job.

57:44 And even if you don't have the concept of getting paid, you know that what you're doing, you actually have to follow these instructions and deal with these adults.

57:52 Like everybody's a teacher.

57:54 Oh, you're going to the principal's office. It's a job job. And even when you're really small. And by certainly eight or nine, you're like, yeah.

58:01 And it's intense. And it's where people go, oh, my God, poor kids.

58:05 Okay, both Dean and I kind of started laughing when you started saying, I wish that, you.

58:10 Know, get a little more feedback. Like you just said something letting me know. Because both Dean and I have told this. They both talked about that.

58:18 He didn't give any feedback to the adults either.

58:20 We were all kind of going.

58:21 So was that okay?

58:23 Wait, what just happened?

58:25 Being able to have those conversations both with you and Dean and understand that has been actually very healing for me.

58:32 Because I understand his method of direction, how he likes to direct.

58:37 And so that person as a child that thought maybe I'm not doing it right, I got to let that go because now I understand that I wasn't the only one that possibly had those reservations. But that's the way he, it was his style, his creative style.

58:52 He wasn't ignoring you. That was just how he did it.

58:55 He didn't tell Dean whether he did a good job afterwards either.

58:59 Occasionally, when something would, he.

59:02 Would give some indication.

59:04 But there was, he could direct in a way that, where if he felt like you were doing something, that was extraneous or that was going to distract in some way, he could ask you, you know, don't do that.

59:21 Keep it simple. And really, for him, it was about keep it simpler. Michael was always just about simple.

59:28 It's funny because years later.

59:30 in another job, I was talking to my boss and I said something about, well, they could do this or that.

59:37 And she goes, well, you don't understand. You can actually take direction.

59:41 I'm like, oh, okay. So I've been primed since I was a little kid.

59:48 To have somebody give me constructive criticism and build on that.

59:53 But you don't realize that when you're a kid and then you get to be an adult and you have kind of these skills as maybe even a coping skill and not everybody does what you do and you don't you don't realize that because in the environment we grew up in of course that was everybody took direction from michael or leo penn or whoever was.

1:00:12 The director from yeah yeah no absolutely from bill.

1:00:17 Claxton i was 16 or 17 before i found out that like I was doing it right, and that was just how we worked, was the scene one day when he said, well, then you come to the door when you know, you know, you do that thing that you do, you give.

1:00:29 Them one of those.

1:00:30 And he was like laughing hysterically over all that. And then when I went, oh, insert coin into slot.

1:00:36 Got it. Oh, that's what we're doing.

1:00:40 I will say for me, when I hear about him, as directing in that way, which is like, he didn't give you anything. If he didn't like what you were doing, he'd tell you. But other than that, he wasn't like... But to me, I think a takeaway from that is that he trusted you guys. He knew that the people that he cast were more than capable of doing exactly what he wanted them to do. And he trusted you all with it and just let you go. And as an actor, we all have that little tiny, needy little gremlin in our brain going, do you like me? Do you like me?

1:01:19 Am I doing it right?

1:01:19 Do you like me?

1:01:20 Do you like me?

1:01:20 I just need a little validation to know what I'm doing is good. And when you don't get it, it can be very disconcerting. But the takeaway is, he obviously did because he would have told you if he didn't like it. It's just, and it is that retraining your brain.

1:01:36 You wouldn't have been, you wouldn't have, none of us would have been there if we weren't doing what you wanted.

1:01:40 I think the other part of it too, for us kids is that Michael really was a big kid. So he was able to come down to that mentality and present it in a way where it didn't seem like I'm giving you direction kind of a thing. And he may make a comment and kind of, steer you where he wanted you to go because you know some people talk about him taking them aside for big scenes but i think he did it from a way where he wasn't going to be micromanaging or overbearing because he didn't want to scare the bejesus out of you either he wanted you to be successful you know but people always ask us about that because they read books like child star that was um written by shirley temple black and she talks about the horrible things that they did to

1:02:28 the kids on set and we've been asked, did they really tell you that your mother died? No, that was Shirley Temple.

1:02:35 Remember the little child actress in the movie Meet Me in St.

1:02:39 Louis?

1:02:41 What's her name? Anyway, someone will remind me of her name, but, you know, she had a scene where, you know, they're moving and she's looking out the window and she's crying. It's that winter scene before she.

1:02:50 Is she the one that won the Oscar? That she was the first child star to win the Oscar? Yes, actually, I met her at Paul Peterson.

1:02:56 What is her name?

1:02:57 This is terrible.

1:02:59 She's famous.

1:03:00 Anyway, you know, they told her her dog died. Get her to cry before that. That's why she was upset.

1:03:07 Margaret O'Brien, yes.

1:03:10 Right before they said action, they said, oh, by the way, your dog died.

1:03:14 Roll him.

1:03:15 And that's why she was as devastated as she was in that scene. And I mean, listen, again, like as actors, we use tools, but this is not that. This is actively lying to a child in a terribly emotional, it's just such emotional.

1:03:32 She's still around. She's 89. She's still around. I've met her a thing.

1:03:36 She's like fine now, as I guess you can be with all that, but as it were.

1:03:41 Yeah.

1:03:42 So it's good to know that none of that happened on Little House on the Weary, that they took care of you guys.

1:03:48 No, we were very fortunate that way, that all the children were very protected and well taken care of, and we were all, you know, kind of inspired to go on and do other things.

1:03:58 Yeah.

1:03:59 The only thing I can say is, like, you know, the one time that Carrie spills the eggs, they tell me to go— you can see somebody off camera tell me to go tip over the bowl of eggs— and spill them on the floor, and I go and do it, and I turn to whoever's on the side of the camera, and I just smile, so they're like, yeah, is that what you want me to do?

1:04:20 And Carrie just goes whisking out of the bedroom going, Carrie, what have you done?

1:04:25 I'm like, what was I doing? Oh, baby. I'm like, you really told me.

1:04:34 To do it.

1:04:36 In the few minutes we have left, I just want you to have an opportunity to speak about the Greenbush Twins dot com and what you're doing as you're as you're in this in this new phase of your life, because you really have taken something on here.

1:04:54 And so tell us about it and tell.

1:04:55 The audience about it. We lovingly refer to modern Carrie. Here we go. So many times we go to Castro unions and, and appearances and fans come up and they tell you these stories about.

1:05:20 How they met people at one reunion, and they've stayed friends for 30 years, how everybody there is so nice, they've held people's place in line, they get together every year.

1:05:31 So Green Bridge Twins & Company was really meant to.

1:05:33 Take that core compassion, kindness, empathy, friendship, all those things, And try and push it just beyond just what we see with.

1:05:46 The bonnet heads in the prairie group.

1:05:49 Because the world today really needs a lot of that stuff. And we all love our cell phones.

1:05:55 We all love our social media.

1:05:57 But at a certain point, social media keeps us detached. We don't have that human connection where we sit down and we talk and we can touch somebody's arm or give them a hug or all those things. So it's The Ant Company really is the community. And then it also sources mindful living, finding sourceable products, mental health.

1:06:21 I just did the D.D.

1:06:23 Hirsch Alive Together Walk for the third year to help raise awareness and promote hotlines and stuff like that for the prevention of suicide. And, you know, it's just... We're missing things like the golden rule, which when we grew up, that was a huge thing. Treat others not how they treat you, but how you want to be treated. Be that example. And you see some of that where people say, be the change you want to see in the world.

1:06:53 So don't just talk about it.

1:06:56 Actually implement it and try and put it out there.

1:06:58 And it's made to be a safe space too, where if somebody's going through something You can connect maybe with other people that are going through the same thing. And I know, you know, Dean, you were talking about your mom passing away. And I'm so very sorry. But I remember, you know, when we went through that, the people that had walked that road before me were a comfort to me.

1:07:23 So now I try and be that for others, you know.

1:07:26 And so it has a lot of different aspects to it. But that is... the core of it is to try and connect with people on still a human level and not have all this social disconnect. Even with how you purchase things, it used to be that you always talked about people buying their china when they got married. It was like a big thing and what pattern, what maker.

1:07:54 And these things, because we put so much value on them, became a sense of self. And then you got pride from that and you cared for it and you loved it and you.

1:08:03 Passed it down. But now with Amazon and these things that are.

1:08:07 So easily accessible, we detach and we say, well, I don't, it doesn't matter if I break it, I'll just get another one. And when you do that, you no longer connect that with sense of self and it can cause depression, it can cause self-doubt, it can cause a lot of other trickle-down mental health issues. So we try and go back to small batch makers and creators, things without mass production, things that are sustainably sourced, and then things that take away chemicals and perfumes. Like, you know, out of our ditch detergent is one that has a lot of chemicals and a lot of dyes in it, and so does laundry.

1:08:49 And you know, if you use antiperspirant that has aluminum or the antiperspirant for you, it can cause problems. So right it's meant to be a hub where if you're looking for something we may know about it or we may be promoting it sometimes I take products with me on the road and I just hand them out randomly to people and and then recently because I went out to the museums this year I And I was so inspired by being able to be in Independence, Kansas at the Little House Museum when they actually announced that they had Dr.

1:09:23 Tan's bag.

1:09:25 And they even let me touch it. Like I got to touch it.

1:09:28 Oh, wow.

1:09:28 I love that.

1:09:29 That's cool.

1:09:30 I got to stand there.

1:09:31 And that's the first time I've ever been part of like a museum program. So I'm like, okay, I want to do more of that. So last year they started, or actually in April they started the Society for the Ingalls Family, which is meant to find these projects for restoration and preservation of the Ingalls and Wilder families. And so then I've launched two recently, Carrie's Prairie, which is in honor of Carrie Ingalls and her legacy and her life and all the great things that she did. And $ 2 of every purchase goes towards current restoration and preservation projects.

1:10:12 So they raised all the money for the glass case for Dr. Tan's bag. So right now the funds are going towards placing a headstone at Rose Wilder Lane's son's grave site in Utah because they were able to locate it. And then once that's done, we'll find another place restoration preservation project.

1:10:35 And, and it'll go on from there.

1:10:37 So what's the.

1:10:38 Best way for people to connect with you? I mean, obviously you've got the, it's the greenbush twins.com.

1:10:44 And I'll make sure it's greenbush twins.com is a website.

1:10:48 I'm on Facebook and social media.

1:10:50 You can always email me at info at greenbush twins.com. I'm not so big. It's that it's not me answering the emails. So those are the best ways.

1:11:00 I understand. Yeah.

1:11:02 Yeah. um and those are those are the best ways and i'm happy when people have you know they they want to collaborate on projects i've collaborated with a few different artists and and that's always fun too.

1:11:16 So now so cindy is this you did you both come up with this together did is this what's how is this working for the with the two of.

1:11:28 You This is Robin's baby and her brainchild and her creation.

1:11:33 Okay.

1:11:35 The way that it's built and structured, it was kind of my brainchild, but it's built in a way that Rachel can be involved as much or as little as she wants because that doorway is always open where if she has something she wants to do that aligns, the platform's already built, the audience is already built. We just kind of put it in there. And then if she's got other things... to do or going on a trip, she doesn't have to be tied down by the logistics of it because let's face it, I didn't realize how much when you're on social media, you have to post constantly.

1:12:09 It's a full-time job.

1:12:11 It can be, for sure.

1:12:12 And I'm like, now I get what everybody's like. Yeah. It's a lot. So that's the thought of it.

1:12:19 The two of you, I think this is a wonderful way for you to extend that.

1:12:24 What you have created.

1:12:25 You know, when I think about the two of you, I always think that you appeared in the opening title of 186 episodes of the series. I mean, that's a real thing. You are there for 180, I think, I believe that's the number, 186 episodes. If it's not that exact number, it's close to that number. The two of you are in a very unique position as time marches on You are a real part of, as Allison is, as I am, we try and maintain this legacy and support it and nurture it. But because you're in the opening titles of these shows, you really are in a unique position to do that. And what you're doing with Greenbush Twins and Company is a really nice way to amplify a message about.

1:13:16 What Little House is about.

1:13:17 Because I think the things you're talking about are really at their core all things that Lil' Alice is about.

1:13:23 Right.

1:13:24 Community, family, helping one another, being present. All those things are what Michael tried to convey to people. And that's what resonates with them still today. And the farther we go and we still have this loyal audience, the more it impresses upon you the value of it in general to.

1:13:48 the general public.

1:13:50 And so you feel honored and blessed to actually be a part of it. But even if people have never watched an episode of the show, they know that one part where Carrie bites the dust.

1:14:03 They know that Carrie fallen down the hill.

1:14:05 Even if they don't know.

1:14:06 Who Carrie is, because sometimes you'll be like, well, yeah, I was, you know, the little baby Carrie. And they'll be like, which one was Carrie? Because maybe they weren't like an avid watcher of the show or the books. And you'll go, well, the little one that falls in the beginning, and they'll go, oh, yes, yes, I know you.

1:14:24 I was just watching clips of Family Guy. They do it picture by picture, the whole opening.

1:14:30 I was just going to say that because I'm a huge Seth MacFarlane fan, and it's so appropriate that they made Stewie Carrie.

1:14:37 Yes.

1:14:38 Yes.

1:14:40 We also, like, during the day, too, we're in Mad Magazine, and I have that.

1:14:47 And all these little things, when they make fun of Little House in what was the current format, you feel like, again, a rite of passage. Somebody's noticing, they're seeing what we're doing.

1:15:00 And I even feel like we lose connection, even though AI can be a great tool. and stuff like that, there's so many times when I call someplace because I need something, I have a want, I have a need, and you're sitting there talking to this chat bot.

1:15:18 And you're going, please, can we just.

1:15:20 See this app?

1:15:21 Just give me a human on the line. Even that's great, but it all kind of disconnects us in a way.

1:15:28 And then there's the whole other side of that AI with the data space. that they're building that are so huge and so taxing on the small communities and so bad on the environment. So a lot of them have these combines that run on gas that spit fumes into the air and they need huge volumes.

1:15:50 Of water to cool down. And it just makes all the wells run dry.

1:15:58 It makes.

1:15:59 The.

1:15:59 Temperature in the area raised by 5 to 10 degrees within so many miles is really a bad thing.

1:16:06 Yeah, it's bad. Bad, bad, bad.

1:16:09 Well, there continues to be lots to talk about. And thank you both for being part of the conversation. Thank you for sharing. Thanks for sharing about your voluminous numbers.

1:16:21 Of names today. No, really.

1:16:24 And thanks for sharing about the whole process that you went through with the God Sister. Delighted to have you on. And thank you both for being here.

1:16:34 I'm going to make a name flow chart for you.

1:16:37 Please do.

1:16:39 Please do sounds.

1:16:41 Perfect you guys go down in history as literally just like the most world's most immortal famous face plant.

1:16:52 If you watch ridiculousness it was the birth of the scorpion.

1:16:56 Oh my gosh that's so funny.

1:17:03 That's funny.

1:17:03 Well, it's true. I mean, it is part of the cultural fabric of America, that baby carry fall.

1:17:09 Yeah. Yeah.

1:17:10 I hope you guys can enjoy it. I really do.

1:17:13 Oh, we do.

1:17:16 It's a blessing. It is a blessing that just blows my mind because it just keeps giving and it just keeps giving. And, you know, when Karen said that she has friends all over the world because of Little House, It's so true. And, and even like the size of that is hard to fully wrap your mind around, but it's just been such a blessing. And we were just so fortunate to be born twins, have a father that was an actor, have a My dad's friend was sitting in the agent's office when the twin call came in.

1:17:51 And he said, well, Billy Greenbush has twins that age.

1:17:56 He's in this office.

1:17:57 You might give him a call. So all the destined things that had to come into place for that to happen, it's just truly been a blessing in our lives and continues to be. And we're so thankful to just have the little part in it, in the cog in that wheel that we have.

1:18:14 Yeah.

1:18:15 Incredible. Congratulations.

1:18:17 And good for you that you're driving it forward because I think that's really important and you have that possibility and you should do it and you are doing it and good for you.

1:18:27 Also, Carrie was so lonely in that episode. It made me so happy that Melissa Francis was going to join the cast in just a little bit. So you guys had someone to play with.

1:18:36 Oh, my God. I wish we had time to talk about that. Maybe we can talk.

1:18:39 About that on Patreon.

1:18:41 There you go. Let's do that.

1:18:43 Yeah, we'll do that. You guys they're going to join us on Patreon. I guess we're going to talk about you guys meeting up with Melissa Francis after decades and decades and the.

1:18:52 Whole reunion in Nashville.

1:18:53 When we started in Nashville, I told her, I go, please forgive me if I slip and call you Missy because you were always... missy to us so i have to try and retrain myself yeah but we were talking about all the fun things we used to do it was on the set because she was like the closest to our age now.

1:19:10 I know you guys let's talk about it.

1:19:13 On patreon okay we'll talk about it on patreon okay so i'll sign off then you guys thank you again so much for being here with us Followers, stay with us. We're going to continue the conversation on Patreon.

1:19:24 What do I say?

1:19:24 It's been a long time since I say things at the end of this episode. I say, join us. Write our socials. That's it. That's the tag. That's the tag. That's the tag. Little House 50 Podcast. Our website, littlehouse50podcast. com. Visit our new updated merch shop. It's pretty. The Bonnet Boutique is what we are calling it. It's good, you guys.

1:19:45 And we'll see you next time. It's that time, everybody. Bob, get the wig. Here we go.

1:19:54 Fly, everybody.

1:19:55 We're very happy to see Bob in that video.

1:19:58 Woo! Woo!