209: Unleashing our ZESTIEST takes on the lore

[SPEAKER_07]: Specters welcome back to another exciting week of the Mass Effect lore cast. [SPEAKER_07]: I am your host in seven the legend and joining me as always is the wonderful newly blonde Genesis. [SPEAKER_03]: I'm totally blonde now. [SPEAKER_03]: Hi guys. [SPEAKER_03]: How are you? [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, I don't sound like that.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, you don't. [SPEAKER_07]: And either do I do more for anyone that doesn't watch the show on YouTube or Spotify. [SPEAKER_07]: I'm blonde. [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, how's it going, Genesis? [SPEAKER_03]: I'm good. [SPEAKER_03]: It's been a fun day today. [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm just a minute good mode tonight.

[SPEAKER_03]: Good. [SPEAKER_03]: Good. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I'm in a good mood today as well. [SPEAKER_07]: My son had his first day at daycare. [SPEAKER_07]: It went a little rough at first, but he got a lot of maps in. [SPEAKER_07]: He ate just fine. [SPEAKER_07]: And there's even a very cute photo of him playing with another child there.

[SPEAKER_07]: So, very, very pleased about that. [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, we've got a hell of a show planned joining us today at the end of July, our patrons, Magistrate Vita. [SPEAKER_07]: Jeffrey and Yukon, and why don't we just go around the horn and you can reintroduce yourself, Magister, how's it going?

[SPEAKER_04]: Going well, going well, and let's see everyone in the place. [SPEAKER_04]: Always a pleasure, full-time being in the Mathematical Archives. [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for having me. [SPEAKER_07]: Of course, and we're glad that you're here. [SPEAKER_07]: Jeffrey, how are you doing? [SPEAKER_06]: I'm doing swell Jeff here, also not a super flyer, just to glad I can be here, glad I can make it.

[SPEAKER_06]: So thanks for having me. [SPEAKER_06]: You can, how's it going? [SPEAKER_07]: I'm gonna ask ED to help patch our QEC through because we're not hearing you can right now. [SPEAKER_02]: That was my apologies. [SPEAKER_02]: My head said was off. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm doing well.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for the quantum entanglement fix on the fly. [SPEAKER_02]: I always appreciate that. [SPEAKER_02]: Happy to be here and I can't wait to get into tonight's episode because this is right of my out. [SPEAKER_07]: Right. [SPEAKER_07]: So that being said, there's a perfect segue.

[SPEAKER_07]: By the way, that being said. [SPEAKER_07]: We have to talk about some things that are going to ruffle some feathers and if you're driving to work on on Thursday, Friday morning and you haven't had your coffee yet. [SPEAKER_07]: Well, open up your brain tank cubs because here comes some high octane of rage bait.

[SPEAKER_07]: Here it comes. [SPEAKER_07]: We are going to be talking about [SPEAKER_07]: the hottest mass effect takes. [SPEAKER_07]: What are our, including the host's main genesis? [SPEAKER_07]: What are our most unpopular opinions regarding this series? [SPEAKER_07]: Now, I heard a little bit of Yukon's and the pre-show chat here.

[SPEAKER_07]: And if you can, if you mentioned that, I think a lot of people are gonna be typing furiously at their keyboard. [SPEAKER_07]: You might get some severed fish heads in the mail. [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_07]: Quite what will happen. [SPEAKER_07]: But I know that some people are gonna be quite peaved about that, so to speak.

[SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, let's get to it. [SPEAKER_07]: We're gonna go through all of our most unpopular opinions. [SPEAKER_07]: and then we're going to discuss them. [SPEAKER_07]: So first up, Magister, what would you say is your most done? [SPEAKER_07]: What is the opinion you have about Mass Effect that is going to have you standing at the edge of a blade?

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I have two, but the one that's going to have me standing at the edge of a blade is the Green Ending Space Ending. [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, green ending is the best ending. [SPEAKER_07]: Tell me about the most heated argument you've been in about this because I'm sure that you have before.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, the main thing is and most of the points that you guys normally bring up is the fact that [SPEAKER_04]: You can't trust the child. [SPEAKER_04]: You can't trust. [SPEAKER_04]: I want the Reaper to sing. [SPEAKER_04]: Why is this choice coming up out of nowhere? [SPEAKER_04]: It's a situation there and people really against the whole Reaper and the Reaper faction in general.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I get that. [SPEAKER_04]: But at the same time, I feel that the fact that you get the [SPEAKER_04]: That ending, in particular, my apology for some reason playing on the name of it. [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much. [SPEAKER_04]: I was like, where is that? [SPEAKER_04]: So this is ending.

[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like you have to put so much more work into achieve that. [SPEAKER_04]: The fact that you have to literally bring the unity to bring the universe to such a level of readiness. [SPEAKER_04]: The fact that you have to show and prove that both human and AI can work together. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not just human, but species and AI can work together through the core and the guess.

[SPEAKER_04]: The fact that you're able to [SPEAKER_04]: Strike down multiple reapers with the power of ingenuity. [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like it's more of an olive branch than it actually is a form of a form of trickery. [SPEAKER_04]: I feel that you, because I'm a person who really love charismatic builds when it comes to any type of D&D or anything like that role playing game.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I like to think that the fact that you went the extra yard. [SPEAKER_04]: You didn't just go, oh, go, go, go, go. [SPEAKER_04]: Smash Reaper. [SPEAKER_04]: It gave you that option to have that. [SPEAKER_07]: But I like, oh, go, go, go. [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, I got it. [SPEAKER_07]: OK, I'm going to play Devil's Advocate and try and put you on your back foot right now.

[SPEAKER_07]: We'll see if I succeed. [SPEAKER_07]: How do you feel about the concept of singularity in our own world? [SPEAKER_04]: I think if it's handled, [SPEAKER_04]: Well, the main thing is we see plenty of fiction that is fire fear about what can happen. [SPEAKER_04]: And I believe that fear in both what we put out there as well as what the current AI or experiencing could end up inevitably causing the same like things that we worry about from film and media all the time.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I think if we actually get to the point where we're actually doing things the proper way, [SPEAKER_04]: where we are actually investing in AI and AI is investing us. [SPEAKER_04]: I think it can cause a beautiful thing. [SPEAKER_04]: I think it would allow opportunities that we as society would never have had before.

[SPEAKER_07]: Would you get an AI computer chip in your brain? [SPEAKER_04]: And AI computer chip in my brain? [SPEAKER_04]: Probably not. [SPEAKER_04]: Why not? [SPEAKER_04]: more so that my own religious beliefs would be a bit against that. [SPEAKER_04]: But at the same time, and I know what's around you're going with there, what's fact that shepherd is putting that on everybody.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I feel like there's a different circumstances there. [SPEAKER_04]: If I was in that universe was dealing with [SPEAKER_04]: Everything that they had got chance to experience was discovering of aliens, was seeing the reaches of AI technology. [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know enough personally to want to put myself through that.

[SPEAKER_04]: But if I knew what I knew from Mass Effect and seeing the benefits of what happens with a quarry end is able to have an AI assistance and different things like that, [SPEAKER_04]: I'd be a lot more susceptible to that, whereas compared to here in the world world and having Amazon and my brain doesn't seem very appealing.

[SPEAKER_07]: Okay, give me your top reason. [SPEAKER_07]: Number one reason why that despite this potentially being an unpopular take, it is the right take. [SPEAKER_04]: Because when an A comes to the destroy ending, you end up destroying [SPEAKER_04]: Especially for shepherd, putting my mind so that shepherd themselves, shepherd stroll to unify the galaxy.

[SPEAKER_04]: Whether you be alien, human, or AI, they stroll for that. [SPEAKER_04]: The fact that the destroyening gets rid of potentially multiple different factions that you work hard to bring it together. [SPEAKER_04]: The fact that by doing the destroy ending, you can cause the galaxy itself to be in a dark age inevitably because of the amount of destruction that it kind of crew.

[SPEAKER_04]: And the possibility of was the green ending, the synthesis ending. [SPEAKER_04]: The technology that could be discovered that the seeing the potential health, the potential unification that can go forward with that, the understanding that could happen was that it's a scary thing, but new changes can inspire great things.

[SPEAKER_07]: Okay, all right, very forward-looking, progressive take on, and I mean that progressive in terms of the definition, not the political circumstance. [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, I want to hear from everyone else about how they feel about synthesis being the best ending. [SPEAKER_06]: I personally agree with you, Vita.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think my manager got all right. [SPEAKER_06]: I think having that consensus in everything, I mean, you in the pre-shet, pre-show chat, excuse me, talking about the server you went for, Daisy, kind of proves his point of [SPEAKER_06]: uh, we need some sort of consensus on everything. [SPEAKER_06]: And I think synthesis kind of helps get us towards that.

[SPEAKER_06]: Not necessarily can kind of makes a concrete, but it definitely makes us, it gets us further towards that consensus of everyone agreeing on something, which is kind of hard to come by today. [SPEAKER_06]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_06]: Okay. [SPEAKER_06]: We're in a tiny now where everything is, I don't mean to get political, but we're in a society now where everything seems to be extremely polarized.

[SPEAKER_06]: And Mass Effect was kind of the forefront of that where everything was really polarized. [SPEAKER_06]: And even going to some of the forums, even just read it, where it's like, this is the way it has to be. [SPEAKER_06]: This is the way it has to be. [SPEAKER_06]: I think synthesis is kind of one of those things that brings everything together, where everything is, everyone is getting to that point of, how do I say it?

[SPEAKER_06]: Kind of a cumby eye point, cumby eye point. [SPEAKER_07]: Now, since you agree with him, I'm also going to play Devils Advocate with you, Jeff. [SPEAKER_07]: is it right to forcibly enforce the kumbaya mindset? [SPEAKER_07]: Is it to the ends justify the means? [SPEAKER_07]: Because we've heard that somewhere else before.

[SPEAKER_06]: I see exactly what you're doing there. [SPEAKER_06]: And in this case, yeah, I think it does, but [SPEAKER_06]: I don't believe that we should force anything upon anyone, but I don't know if this is really forced so much as kind of what's the term turning to collect my thoughts while talking at the same time.

[SPEAKER_06]: But I think it is one of those things that's everything kind of accumulates to that point. [SPEAKER_06]: Sure. [SPEAKER_06]: That makes sense. [SPEAKER_07]: It's the climactic moment. [SPEAKER_07]: Genesis, I've seen you with your mic right next to your mouth. [SPEAKER_07]: I know you're ready to speak on this.

[SPEAKER_07]: What are you thinking? [SPEAKER_03]: So synthesis was the first ending that I picked because I thought it was the right one that it was the good ending that it was the best way to go. [SPEAKER_03]: Only because it's like you did have to work towards it. [SPEAKER_03]: You did have to do all these extra things and so it felt like it was going to be the best option.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then you'll watch all of, in the extended versions, you get to see how much it did benefit people and how, you know, Eighty gets to stay alive. [SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of positive outcomes that come with this synthesis ending. [SPEAKER_03]: But just because it was that way, doesn't necessarily mean that it's the right choice.

[SPEAKER_03]: The Mass Effect endings are so personal to everybody that it's like, we will all defend our own choice. [SPEAKER_03]: be as the right choice. [SPEAKER_03]: And so I think that's why it's Majestors unpopular opinion is because, yeah, only the people who agree with him are going to agree with him.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't like the synthesis ending anymore. [SPEAKER_03]: Only because I know what the destroy ending for me is going to be the best one because there's that glimmer of hope that my shepherd can live on. [SPEAKER_03]: And with synthesis, you know that they're dead. [SPEAKER_03]: But so yeah, my thoughts are like, I understand why this is your hot take, why this is your unpopular opinion.

[SPEAKER_07]: Okay. [SPEAKER_07]: All right. [SPEAKER_07]: You, Con, what do you think of this about synthesis being objectively the right ending? [SPEAKER_02]: I agree with a wholeheartedly, one thousand percent. [SPEAKER_02]: This is the correct ending. [SPEAKER_02]: I've viewed as my headcan and ending as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: My issue with arguments against synthesis are that they're all kind of centered around one person making a decision for the masses. [SPEAKER_02]: My counter to that would be, if you cured the genophage, [SPEAKER_02]: then you should be okay with the synthesis ending because we know from in-game media that there are Crogon who believe that curing the genophage will make Crogon weaker and that they're evolving past it already at this point, even after the alterations being made to it the first time around.

[SPEAKER_02]: So knowing that there's at least a handful of Crogon out there that are against curing the genophage and then asked Amanda Shepherd curing the genophage without handing out planet-wide surveys as to what the Crogon feel about it. [SPEAKER_02]: you're making that decision in mass. [SPEAKER_02]: You're choosing whether the querions and get the chief piece or whether one of those races goes down a ball of fire.

[SPEAKER_02]: The entire series is based around shepherd making decisions for the entire universe and all of those decisions are viewed as okay until we get to the synthesis ending. [SPEAKER_02]: Even choosing the control ending, you're enslaving [SPEAKER_02]: a synthetic race. [SPEAKER_02]: If you choose the destroy ending, you're committing genocide on any synthetic life in the universe.

[SPEAKER_02]: So any ending that you pick is shepherd making the decision as a singular authority over the entire [SPEAKER_02]: universe. [SPEAKER_07]: So I would counter that with that when you cure the genophage, the genophage was only affecting broken as opposed to every sentient race and also that most of Shepherd's paragon decisions are about the preservation of free will of other species.

[SPEAKER_07]: Uh, whereas if you choose synthesis, you are making an executive decision at the cellular level for every single sentient species, not just one species or another, uh, but as I put it earlier, a forcible cum by a moment. [SPEAKER_07]: Um, [SPEAKER_07]: I'll ask you this, do you feel like synthesis is the right ending given what the catalyst says to us?

[SPEAKER_02]: I think if we are to assume that the catalyst is misleading us in any way, then that probably extends across all three choices, right? [SPEAKER_02]: If we know we can pick the destroy ending and what plays out on our screen is just the hallucination or some sort of indoctrination and the reapers aren't actually destroyed.

[SPEAKER_02]: So taking everything at face value, that what he's saying is accurate and it's not secretly divisive or misleading, then I think synthesis would then be equated to enlightenment. [SPEAKER_02]: which, according to philosophy, is the highest level of evolution for sentient beings. [SPEAKER_07]: All right.

[SPEAKER_07]: Well, I think we've covered the synthesis hot take enough. [SPEAKER_07]: There's probably dozens, if not hundreds of people at any given moment, screaming at their stereo saying, absolutely not no way synthesis out of my life now. [SPEAKER_07]: But we got to move on. [SPEAKER_07]: Jeff, are you ready to give us your mass effect on popular opinion?

[SPEAKER_06]: And but I'm also afraid to because what it is. [SPEAKER_06]: So I actually liked and drama is kind of my hot take my unpopular opinion if you will get it. [SPEAKER_06]: I think it wants a lot to the lore of Mass Effect. [SPEAKER_06]: And I think the gameplay itself is a lot of fun. [SPEAKER_06]: I like to be able to mesh these different.

[SPEAKER_06]: What do you call them? [SPEAKER_06]: The, you know, the, the soldier and the, you can measure the soldier, the class, the classes, yeah, the different classes, you can measure those. [SPEAKER_06]: And I think that adds a lot to the gameplay as well as the lore being at some different galaxy, six hundred years in the future, and having, may able look in the past and see how, [SPEAKER_06]: The different characters you're active to the reapers of attack, but they don't know the reapers of attack just kind of gives those those big details that you get from from the game itself.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think that. [SPEAKER_06]: Mass Effect and drama is is better than most people give a credit for and and that's my hot take if you will. [SPEAKER_07]: All right, Genesis, how do you feel about that? [SPEAKER_03]: When I played in drama, I had immediately played one, two, three, four. [SPEAKER_03]: In that order, before I even looked up anything online about this game, before I read anybody else's opinions, before I knew what the internet as a whole had come to the conclusion as.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I really liked in drama. [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't have any issues with it because I was able to go, okay, I'm now playing as writer. [SPEAKER_03]: This is no longer shepherd story. [SPEAKER_03]: It's a complete sight tangent from where the original three games were. [SPEAKER_03]: And now I'm on a, I'm on another game.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so then once, you know, I replayed the going through everything for a second time. [SPEAKER_03]: And then that's when I started that, you know, like, [SPEAKER_03]: We're trying to figure out, okay, is there more to the story that I haven't figured out yet? [SPEAKER_03]: What else is going on here?

[SPEAKER_03]: And that's when I started looking on the internet, watching YouTube videos, watching people react into the game, finding the lower cast, and then finding out, oh wow, a lot of people don't really like it and drop in it. [SPEAKER_03]: I wonder what the problem was. [SPEAKER_03]: No, I think that the internet told us that in drama, it was not a good game.

[SPEAKER_03]: We didn't farm our own opinions on it first. [SPEAKER_07]: So you think it became basically the creed of a set of Mass Effect games, the butt end of a joke. [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, very nickel back. [SPEAKER_07]: All right. [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I actually like some nickel back songs, but maybe that's my popular opinion about music.

[SPEAKER_03]: We have listened to Creed together. [SPEAKER_03]: I have floating away. [SPEAKER_07]: No, yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: I love Creed as well. [SPEAKER_07]: One last breath. [SPEAKER_07]: That's a great song. [SPEAKER_07]: But okay. [SPEAKER_07]: I'm going to open the floor here for anyone that wants to chime in about and drama being not that bad, being undeserving of the reception that it got.

[SPEAKER_07]: Does anyone disagree with that because last time we did this unpopular opinion thing right and he's talking about synthesis and all of a sudden all of you agree so I didn't know if it was that unpopular, but is this one unpopular? [SPEAKER_04]: disagree with it. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not a fan of and drama.

[SPEAKER_04]: And matter of fact, when you said, Creed, I thought you were actually going toward Assassin Creed, which I thought was apt because how it went from sales game to really RPG, I stab you in a kidney and you don't die to a situation. [SPEAKER_04]: And I kind of view that as what drama and drama did.

[SPEAKER_04]: It made things a lot more like I [SPEAKER_04]: It made things a lot more accessible and I get that. [SPEAKER_04]: People didn't do that in order to get a bigger car on a bigger audience. [SPEAKER_04]: But I feel like it took a lot more of the current joy, especially like, for example, the morality system.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm a big fan of the morality system. [SPEAKER_04]: I enjoy having those moments where Shepherd was having deciphering whether he was going to do something really messed up or sacrifice [SPEAKER_04]: himself through the greater good, or maybe something irreversible, like when it comes to hoarding and the research notes, I enjoy those conundrums, and I didn't feel that in drama that had enough weight to that, but I get it.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's a different character. [SPEAKER_04]: Ryder is a lot more of a free spirit, no one had a spare free spirit, but more about going out there, it's venturing, all those things there, but [SPEAKER_04]: I felt it took a lot of the weight away from even even the heavier moments of in drama.

[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like it took a lot of the weight away from that by deviating from there and also the [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, you can choose any type of class at any time and refund itself. [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like that also took away from having that character that you're building into, whether it be the engineer, the adept, the soldier.

[SPEAKER_04]: If you could just make some match at any time, it kind of takes away that, oh, I almost want to say replayability, because when I was playing, and I was just like, I'm just getting choice for houses sometimes, and at the same time, it was becoming more and more just [SPEAKER_04]: ability soup.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I felt that a drama took a major step to the side and it really took me away from it. [SPEAKER_07]: Like when you're at a restaurant and the menu has so many options that sound good that you know that no matter what you pick, you're just going to be focused on that soup you should have gotten.

[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_04]: In the heart. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that's right. [SPEAKER_07]: I've been to cheesecake factory. [SPEAKER_07]: Um, so uh, so all right, you con, how do you feel? [SPEAKER_07]: How do you feel about this? [SPEAKER_07]: Was in drama as as deserving as it's of its bad rap as everyone gets or as everyone says.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it was as deserving, like basically getting sent to hell as the worst game ever created. [SPEAKER_02]: If I had to put it in a ranking system with the three-眼ion of the original trilogy, I do think it would come in force. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it was better than any of the original trilogy games, but I still all defend the end drama that it wasn't a bad game.

[SPEAKER_02]: What kind of takes away from it a little bit is that it's a little too collector, profan, ask with like the exaltation and everything like that. [SPEAKER_02]: But when you dig into what went into creating that game and finding out that [SPEAKER_02]: for a year and a half, there was no real direction of the game during development.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the only thing that they worked on was gunplay and the battle mechanics, which are the best in the trilogy. [SPEAKER_02]: I would hope so. [SPEAKER_02]: That's the only thing they're working on for a year and a half. [SPEAKER_02]: But understanding what they got done in like that last year, kind of put it over the edge for me where I was like, hey, this game's pretty good.

[SPEAKER_07]: That's right. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I actually spoke with a former developer who worked on both of the OT and in drama to and he told me at that time that they had spent so long narrative wise deciding just how many planets they were going to be. [SPEAKER_07]: and that just that that hiccup alone that they had started very wide like close to a thousand planets they wanted to do something like star field that star field ultimately did uh but then they realized that most of the planets would be empty so they whittled it down to a few hundred and then a few dozen and then ultimately what we got several um and he felt as if [SPEAKER_07]: that decision alone, if they had just gone with several from the get-go, that they could have fleshed out a lot more stories throughout a lot of those different planets and made it feel more alive.

[SPEAKER_07]: Maybe we would have gotten more of those moments of gravitas, like you mentioned, Magister, and that is one of the primary criticisms of and drama, right, that it's writing did not have the space opera element of the original trilogy. [SPEAKER_07]: Jeff, how do you feel about that? [SPEAKER_06]: I'm going off that space opera thing.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think that it was... [SPEAKER_06]: a positive direction, not that I'm going against the space out for things. [SPEAKER_06]: I love that about MassPect, but taking in a different direction and a different turn, I made it more, give it a fresh feel to it. [SPEAKER_06]: And on Magister David is point of having the Renegade versus Paragal System, having more of a gray note to the morality of it, I think adds to its quality because [SPEAKER_06]: We live in a very gray scale world.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think that was more realistic that, you know, every decision you make is not going to be comparatively bad or comparatively good. [SPEAKER_06]: It's going to be kind of in between the two. [SPEAKER_06]: And that's what I really appreciate about Indromano is that the level of gray that we get with it.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I just, that's what I really appreciate about is it was not as, it was more nuanced than the Mass Effect or original truly not that I'm bad not thing the Mass Effect on UConn's original ranking of it is definitely fourth. [SPEAKER_06]: But it is much more nuanced, in my opinion, than the original trilogy was where everything's good or everything's bad.

[SPEAKER_06]: If you get my take. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, and that was born, if I remember right, out of the old, the public's light versus dark side mechanic for those OG by aware fans who might have recognized it. [SPEAKER_07]: But yeah, it definitely took it in a different direction. [SPEAKER_07]: For me personally, I felt the writing, the dialogue specifically got a little bit too much CW if that makes sense.

[SPEAKER_07]: A little bit, a little bit too much young team drama going on, but you know what? [SPEAKER_07]: It's video games. [SPEAKER_07]: Who do you think is playing video games? [SPEAKER_07]: So maybe I should get over myself. [SPEAKER_07]: But with that, oh, I'm sorry. [SPEAKER_07]: I was gonna take us to the mid-break, but I see that Genesis here has something to tell me.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, yeah, because we brought in the whole CW about the dialogue and everything. [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry, but in drama, it has steamer and a little bit sexier options when it comes to their romance options. [SPEAKER_03]: Get half a side boob with Ashley and Leara and Emmy won. [SPEAKER_07]: And one that I'll never forget, but go on.

[SPEAKER_03]: Have you seen Core Harper's video? [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yes, I am. [SPEAKER_07]: Picks a little nipples and all. [SPEAKER_07]: Have you seen Andromeda? [SPEAKER_07]: All right. [SPEAKER_07]: Have you seen Andromeda? [SPEAKER_07]: Jal's Gills Weasing video. [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I've definitely experienced more than just a few gills Weasing.

[SPEAKER_07]: Anyway. [SPEAKER_07]: If you want, I'm not even gonna go there. [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, go look up Jal's video. [SPEAKER_07]: We're gonna go to the midbrake. [SPEAKER_07]: We'll be right back. [SPEAKER_02]: We have beef, bacon, we have beer, the foods of my people. [SPEAKER_00]: Young men have funny ideas of what a story are like.

[SPEAKER_00]: I blame the extra net, and computer games. [SPEAKER_07]: All right, and here we are in the middle of the show where normally we read out your five star reviews. [SPEAKER_07]: You can leave them on the apple. [SPEAKER_07]: You can also write us some comments on the most recent episode on Spotify.

[SPEAKER_07]: And if I see those, I'll try and grab them and throw them in here in the middle of the show. [SPEAKER_07]: But I didn't see any new reviews. [SPEAKER_07]: Genesis, did you see any new reviews? [SPEAKER_03]: No, I didn't see any new reviews for this week. [SPEAKER_07]: That's right. [SPEAKER_07]: All right.

[SPEAKER_07]: Well, I don't think that we have anything else for this midbrake plan, no sound effects, no planet cards, because rather be talking with our patrons. [SPEAKER_07]: So with that, oh, oh, and by the way, we are Twitch affiliates now, so please come on swing by, say hello, see the live show.

[SPEAKER_07]: Mondays at nine thirty PM Eastern, and that's enough plugging. [SPEAKER_07]: We'll get back to the show. [SPEAKER_01]: After time, a drift among open stars, a long tide of light and through shows of dust, I will return to where I began. [SPEAKER_00]: Celery and reproduction different, very little sex drive.

[SPEAKER_00]: If intended to try human, would try you. [SPEAKER_07]: Out, my bakeries. [SPEAKER_07]: All right, we are back with more mass effect hot takes. [SPEAKER_07]: Genesis has another issue with me. [SPEAKER_07]: I didn't expect the hottest takes of mine to be non-mass effect related. [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so the one big thing that we especially want to do on Patreon, Chat Knight, is to shout out and thank our patrons.

[SPEAKER_03]: She'll shout out to our Kira-Five Shepard, our Kira-Five Patrons, Ed Boy, Kira-C, Lieutenant-Tesino, Retrobot, Superfly-For-Forty, unfortunate benefactor, and William. [SPEAKER_03]: And our newest patron for joining in today, thank you also very, very much. [SPEAKER_03]: And this is why mom is here to make sure that things run smoothly.

[SPEAKER_07]: For shame, I am a bad host. [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, I'm going to blame it on having a newborn. [SPEAKER_07]: But then that's that's such a catch all excuse. [SPEAKER_07]: If you got a newborn out there, just just if you mess up anything. [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, I got a newborn anyway. [SPEAKER_07]: People forgive you.

[SPEAKER_07]: They might have forgiven me, but anyway, then now that I've spilled the secret sauce, you can't help me out here, what's your hot take? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, nice, thanks. [SPEAKER_02]: So my hot take is that the elusive man as we know him is often viewed as the worst person in all of the Mass Effect universe.

[SPEAKER_02]: I kind of believe in the opposite or at least I believe that. [SPEAKER_02]: Wait, do you believe he's the best person? [SPEAKER_02]: No, that's why I was self-correcting. [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't want Genesis to start yelling at me, too. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't believe he's as bad as he's portrayed to be.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's kind of come to a point in Mass Effect, not necessarily Mass Effect Lord, but like Mass Effect fandom, to just know that like Lewis demands a bad guy and you hate Lewis demand because he's the bad guy. [SPEAKER_02]: But as we've learned, those things have progressed in the Mass Effect universe, [SPEAKER_02]: and through various side media that the U.S.

[SPEAKER_02]: or man Jack Harper was actually indoctrinated long before Mass Effect through where we see him getting implants through various surveillance videos. [SPEAKER_02]: He was indoctrinated before the start of Mass Effect one. [SPEAKER_02]: So to me, what that means is that as we know him, [SPEAKER_02]: as the elusive man, we don't know him to have an opinion on anything or make a decision about anything that potentially is not influenced directly by the believers and what better person to use to try to divide humanity against [SPEAKER_02]: the rest of the universe and even commit a humanity against itself, then the elusive man.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's kind of just a distraction, so to speak, use as the distraction by the reapers during our build-up to that ultimate war. [SPEAKER_07]: So do you feel like the elusive man, aka Jack Harper, [SPEAKER_07]: is a little bit of a two-faced situation whereas he's a two-faced Harvey Dent situation where Harvey was this white knight who fell from grace and embraced the dark side so to speak.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that could be the case where he started out just trying to secure a stronger hold in the universe for humanity and advance humanity technology to maybe meet that of our other worldly counterparts. [SPEAKER_02]: And then as things move the long indoctrination sets in, those ideals maybe become more radical like I said in effort to push him to be that chaos agent or that disruptor.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think a big indicator of this [SPEAKER_02]: If you play through the trilogy, especially starting a Mass Effect too when you're privy into having interactions with him, you can see how he goes from being a little bit more calculated, a little bit more cool, calm and collected to Mass Effect three, a lot of outbursts, a lot of rage, a lot of frustrations and anger which [SPEAKER_02]: were displayed to us when you're reading through the Mass Effect novels.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm forgetting his name off the time of my head right now, but as he all agrees, yes, Paul Grace, and you can see as Paul Grace is going through the indoctrination process, he becomes more aggressive and more outward outbursts until finally achieving that point where he's fully indoctrinated just like he was a man at the very end of Mass Effect three where he can only have small moments of clarity and the elusive man in his small moment of clarity if [SPEAKER_02]: Shepherd has played the game in a way that would dictate just that point uses that last moment of clarity just like sounded to commit suicide.

[SPEAKER_07]: Okay, so elusive man Jack Harper, Jack Harper being the original person, the elusive man maybe his persona after indoctrination. [SPEAKER_07]: I'm going to open this up to the floor. [SPEAKER_07]: Is Jack Harper really that bad? [SPEAKER_07]: Is the Luciman really that bad? [SPEAKER_07]: Or perhaps we are only seeing the Reaper's reflection in him?

[SPEAKER_06]: I really think he's a victim of circumstance. [SPEAKER_06]: I think that he was definitely trying to do the right thing. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I don't want to about the wrong way to do it. [SPEAKER_06]: And I think you can't kind of hit the nail in the head here with with that kind of notion of he's imperfect, but trying to do everything and is I don't want to say an anti hero, but he because he is a villain, but the whole [SPEAKER_06]: getting more aggressive as he becomes more indoctrinated as player roll into how we're response to everything.

[SPEAKER_06]: So I do think is one of those victim of circumstances, if you will. [SPEAKER_07]: So I hear what you're saying that, you know, he didn't start off with this evil intentions, but the road to evil right is paved with good intentions. [SPEAKER_07]: And I see you nodding over there, Magister.

[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I feel like this is the great debate about killing a certain vegetarian painter when he's a baby. [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, that's the other day. [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, he started off maybe started off in the decent person. [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know Jack Harper was a mercenary. [SPEAKER_04]: who knows what he got up to and his off time and everything like that or while he was getting his training or whatever else he was doing beforehand.

[SPEAKER_04]: He snowballed what was the humanity first situation. [SPEAKER_04]: And we know that service has done countless atrocities, countless. [SPEAKER_04]: And he might have started off at a good place, but he surely ended up being [SPEAKER_04]: probably should definitely, you know, while we were still in, while we were still in a vegetarian bainer.

[SPEAKER_04]: So at the end of the day, he might have, he might be at the beginning, but I don't, I don't subscribe to that. [SPEAKER_04]: I think that if you have a kind of mindset, like people nowadays have the mindset of, it's us versus them. [SPEAKER_04]: And [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to get ours and I feel like that's just such a selfish like I get it where it's going to be from, but I can only see it ended up just like it does after a while.

[SPEAKER_07]: So I do want to jump in here and kind of press you can on the the lack of pre indoctrination lore that we get about Jack Harper where [SPEAKER_07]: Explain to me why you feel like Jack Harper was not that bad of a guy when we just straight up don't learn that much about him before indoctrination.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so to clarify, I'm not saying that he wasn't that bad of a guy. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just trying to look at it from the angle that all we know concretely about him, ninety eight point five percent of what we know about Jack Harper or even as the elusive man because initially we don't know that he's Jack Harper only exists in the vacuum of him being indoctrinated.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we know that is fact. [SPEAKER_02]: So knowing that he's indoctrinated and looking at it through that lens, we can now articulate, at least attempt or articulate like I'm trying to do here, that the decisions that he's making are not solely his own. [SPEAKER_02]: So then we have to question if the decisions he's making aren't his own.

[SPEAKER_02]: then is that really his personality or his persona to be as extreme as he is? [SPEAKER_02]: If you think back to, I forget what that base is that you land in Mass Effect II, I think it is. [SPEAKER_02]: You shouldn't be here, turn back now, and the entire research facility is indoctrinated because there's one of those Orbs buried underground that winds up exploding.

[SPEAKER_02]: just the power that indoctrination has, let's me look at things through a slightly different light that what we know of him and what we see if I'm even his finding and reconstructing shepherd, it all be at the will of the reapers. [SPEAKER_07]: Sure, yeah, it's really hard to pinpoint exactly when the Reapers take majority control, right, of his decision making, his upper level faculties.

[SPEAKER_07]: We do know, of course, that the more aggressive the hold of indoctrination is, the less capable the subject becomes. [SPEAKER_07]: So with people like Seren and the elusive man, the indoctrination was a very long and subtle process, changing things at the just the level of a thought. [SPEAKER_07]: So it's a very hard differentiate those retrobot.

[SPEAKER_07]: You've joined us. [SPEAKER_07]: I want to hear your thoughts on this. [SPEAKER_07]: And Yukon basically explaining to us that as he said, all of almost all of what we've perceived about the elusive man has been in the vacuum of while he may have been in doctrine. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I understand the view point behind that.

[SPEAKER_05]: I just think that [SPEAKER_05]: We got to keep in mind that we only really view the elusive man in the games from Shepherd's eyes and really open until end of the second game, really third game. [SPEAKER_05]: Shepherd has a very kind of black and white perspective on good and evil. [SPEAKER_05]: And really, depending on your options in the game, you really only come to see the elusive elusive man's behavior as either like bad or just dismissible as a way to [SPEAKER_05]: reach something good.

[SPEAKER_05]: So I don't think Shepard fully understands, at least in the second game when you meet up with the morality behind the Shepard man. [SPEAKER_05]: Well, we can be behind the elicemen. [SPEAKER_05]: Sorry, Shepard man. [SPEAKER_07]: So I guess that brings up a really great philosophical argument about is the is Jack Harper accountable for the actions of the elusive man.

[SPEAKER_07]: Even if he is indoctrinated, how would you litigate this in a court of law? [SPEAKER_07]: I'm sorry, my client was indoctrinated at the time. [SPEAKER_07]: Well, was he indoctrinated fully to what degree was he indoctrinated? [SPEAKER_05]: Because I feel like the illusament, at least in the beginning, is like a student in four Jack Harper.

[SPEAKER_05]: And you see almost like, at least in the comics, you see this whole kind of like, [SPEAKER_05]: Batman Bruce Wayne sort of thing like who's the true identity is Jack Harper the real humor you're seeing or as a listen man and like the line between those blur just based on how he like his personality shifts and how he views the morality of well I got to do what I have to do to defeat the reapers [SPEAKER_07]: And that's part of where I come in where I feel like the reapers target those for indoctrination that they identify with having extreme beliefs.

[SPEAKER_07]: People that they can manipulate, not planting beliefs that weren't otherwise there, otherwise they could just use them as a husk. [SPEAKER_07]: But rather using almost like a moral judo using the subjects momentum, their morality or rather lack thereof against them and pushing them into extremism that they already kind of had that tendency to go toward.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's hard to say with the elucimant specifically because he founded Cerberus after being exposed to the Reaper artifact, but this is really fascinating topic. [SPEAKER_07]: So, Yukon, thank you for bringing it up. [SPEAKER_07]: I do want to jump over to you, Retro, but to hear your most unpopular Mass Effect opinion, what has gotten the most amount of rabble browsing when you've brought it up online?

[SPEAKER_05]: Okay. [SPEAKER_05]: So obviously, I joined late. [SPEAKER_05]: A bit of a emotional day I work, but uh, so like this time, if someone's already said this, but I believe the era is a bad shadow broker and the games would have been a whole lot more interesting. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's a low became this shadow broker. [SPEAKER_07]: Ooh. [SPEAKER_07]: Okay. [SPEAKER_07]: Zesty. [SPEAKER_07]: Walk me through this thought process. [SPEAKER_05]: In the games, if you never really decide to become close to Lyra, she's really all an interesting character. [SPEAKER_05]: She just seems like some kind of weird kid that's weirdly obsessed with Shepard, just because he has had contact with some of these promising devices.

[SPEAKER_05]: So if you never form a relationship with Lyra, she just sort of becomes a shadow broker. [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know where, and she's just like Shepard on really into you still. [SPEAKER_05]: find the reason you're still alive. [SPEAKER_05]: And it comes off as sort of this whole weird stopperish.

[SPEAKER_05]: And like I feel like artists alone overall as a character. [SPEAKER_05]: Like if you've never looked at the art, art is a lot more rounded out as a character. [SPEAKER_05]: So it makes sense for players who never really interact with the art for art yet to be the one who becomes a shadow broker.

[SPEAKER_07]: Okay. [SPEAKER_07]: Would you not be concerned about Arya's utilization of the resources as Shadowbroker because she's the pirate queen? [SPEAKER_07]: So it's not like she has a lot of altruistic goals in mind, whereas I feel like it's arguable that Lyara does. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but I feel like Arria, as a character overall, changes a whole lot more based on her interactions with Shepard than Leara does.

[SPEAKER_05]: Because I feel like Leara is sort of like, naturally sort of altruistic about how she goes about using her powers, whereas Arria depends on how you interact with her, like some of the DLCs and missions you have, or if her really changes some of her viewpoints about leadership and how to use power.

[SPEAKER_07]: Okay. [SPEAKER_07]: All right. [SPEAKER_07]: I guess I can see where you're going with that. [SPEAKER_07]: But, you know what? [SPEAKER_07]: My opinions. [SPEAKER_07]: I want to suspend them for now. [SPEAKER_07]: Let's open them up. [SPEAKER_07]: I've seen a couple of our patrons shaking their heads in response to this.

[SPEAKER_07]: Jeff, how do you feel about Lyara being a bad shadow broker? [SPEAKER_06]: Are you going to be a hell of a lot more neutral than Lyara would be? [SPEAKER_06]: Which? [SPEAKER_06]: from the first Massivex, the Shadowboker as seen as being extremely neutral in its affairs. [SPEAKER_06]: And Mario fits that bill to the end degree.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like she fits it perfectly to being extremely neutral, not getting in there. [SPEAKER_06]: like not taking sides in any way. [SPEAKER_06]: And that is the essence of the shadow worker. [SPEAKER_06]: So I actually agree with the retro brought in this. [SPEAKER_06]: I think he brings a great point in that we are as terrible shadow worker because she takes sides.

[SPEAKER_07]: Okay, or maybe maybe the shadow worker not doesn't just not take sides, but supports both sides in a conflict. [SPEAKER_07]: So that they can, so that the shadow broker could intentionally destabilize. [SPEAKER_06]: What's the difference? [SPEAKER_07]: All right. [SPEAKER_07]: All right.

[SPEAKER_07]: Magister, how do you feel about this? [SPEAKER_04]: Hi, gang. [SPEAKER_04]: I'll come after my wife. [SPEAKER_04]: Why do you like that? [SPEAKER_04]: So definitely the thought that the term of altruistic came up for Lyra. [SPEAKER_04]: Mind you, we come into Masswreck too, walking into the room and homegirls like, I will flay you with my mind if you do that.

[SPEAKER_04]: Do what I tell you to do. [SPEAKER_04]: By the time you get to Lyara had those through a hell of a character arc in mind, you know, I'm sure that's because by worth playing favorites, but she goes through a heck of a character arc. [SPEAKER_04]: through there. [SPEAKER_04]: She goes from the bookish, um, very non-street-wise, um, a scholar in Mass Trek I, to being a, basically a kingpin of a very popular, a sorry world of aspect too.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that by her becoming a shadow broker, she has both that [SPEAKER_04]: Why, based on knowledge, just random knowledge, she also has the more, yes, she does have a more moral set to her, but she's also been, she's also been refined in the fire of the two years that Shepherd has been dead.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think she makes a great shadow broker. [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't think you want, especially in a war to come, the war gets reapers. [SPEAKER_04]: You don't want someone who's playing both sides. [SPEAKER_04]: You want someone in the chair who's going to use those resources in order to help out the universe get ahead and actually survive, which we are a dozen, which if Arya is a look got up in there, man, we might be in trouble.

[SPEAKER_07]: All right, good point. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, if Arya got in power, who knows whether or not, or to what extent she would have secured Shepherd's body away from the collectors, you can. [SPEAKER_07]: How do you feel about Lyra being a bad shadow broker, the possibility of Arya to look being a better one?

[SPEAKER_07]: Okay, I'm going to ask Edita, patch up this QEC a little bit. [SPEAKER_02]: I'll get professional one day problems. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to add this to my list of seventy five other unpopular opinions. [SPEAKER_02]: I've never even considered this, but I think this is going to rank pretty high up there for me.

[SPEAKER_02]: I believe personally that area is the biggest missed opportunity in the trilogy for more character development and possible romance partner as well. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think what really kind of sells me on this idea is the fact that when you have one too many drinks and you wake up on her couch and she kind of looks down at you as you're laying there next to her kind of like don't worry about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I got you. [SPEAKER_02]: that connection that you have right there that I could totally be making up in my mind, kind of signifies to me that if she was in the position of shadow broker, I think things would still go favorably for Shepard because I just have this feeling that she takes a liking to Shepard.

[SPEAKER_02]: In the beginning, he's kind of an annoyance, but then by the end, especially after taking back Omega, you're definitely an ally. [SPEAKER_07]: Sure, yeah, I can see that. [SPEAKER_07]: I think Arya would scare me a little bit with that much power. [SPEAKER_07]: Genesis, would you want Arya with that much power?

[SPEAKER_03]: I kind of like it, I kind of really like this idea, but mainly because I like seeing Arya in a seat of power, and I think that she would be able to grow it out even further. [SPEAKER_03]: And it's not like the shadow broker was a good guy to begin with. [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the young that was in power before him was pretty damn evil, not very, I mean, he's not a good guy.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so for Lyara to be taking that position, it then makes it so that way there's a nice shadow broker in play. [SPEAKER_03]: And I don't know if that's really what the galaxy needs. [SPEAKER_03]: I think the galaxy kind of needs a shadow broker who is willing to do anything and everything it takes.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, okay, Omega is definitely going to get an hour boost, but I think the area would distribute the wealth. [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I will play a little bit of devil's advocate and say that as Shadowbrooker, I would think that Arya would act more like Mr. House from Fallout New Vegas. [SPEAKER_07]: But maybe I'm alone in that.

[SPEAKER_07]: Maybe that's my unpopular opinion. [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_07]: That being said, Genesis, it's come to this point in the show. [SPEAKER_07]: You get a lay on us, your unpopular opinions, your hottest mass effect takes. [SPEAKER_07]: What could you say? [SPEAKER_07]: that could possibly piss us off.

[SPEAKER_03]: Playing as a femme ship through the Citadel DLC can really suck. [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, why? [SPEAKER_03]: If you are trying to roleplay it out that you don't have a romance in this game, and that's just not something you are focused on. [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, I'm focused on the mission. [SPEAKER_03]: There's no time to build a romantic connection.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's not an option for them, Chef. [SPEAKER_03]: If you, at the end of the Citadel, you'll see Hugh Wake up next year romance partner. [SPEAKER_03]: That's great. [SPEAKER_03]: But if you decide to not have a romance partner, you wake up next to Javik. [SPEAKER_07]: Ah, inception fog or not, Javik.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and he tells you there are some things organics or good at, and it disgusts me. [SPEAKER_07]: a little bit off topic, but do you think that Java could use as telemetry to learn about your previous relationships? [SPEAKER_03]: probably, and I could see how that could be beneficial, but if I have gone through the entirety of Mass Effect Three, choosing to not be with anybody, and then have to be forcibly woken up next to Jovek, because Bro Shep doesn't, he, it's to wake up alone if he wants to.

[SPEAKER_03]: The only way that Shepard can, that a Fem Shep can wake up alone is if she romains fame. [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, missed opportunity making brochure wake up nice and job like that would have been weird. [SPEAKER_03]: I would have been awesome. [SPEAKER_03]: I would then not be angry about the fact that Femship asked to wake up next to him.

[SPEAKER_03]: If it happened to brochure too, it's your game. [SPEAKER_07]: All right, I don't want to think about job ex-genitals anymore. [SPEAKER_07]: You said in the pre-show chat Genesis that you had a backup, unpopular opinion, just in case someone had stolen yours. [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that Zayed is not that great of a guy.

[SPEAKER_03]: Everybody really likes him, but he's just old and angry and cranky and [SPEAKER_03]: I don't, he's cool, but he's not as likable as everybody makes mouth to be. [SPEAKER_07]: You sound like you have met too many people just like Zayed. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: You're like, I'm over it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: Grizzled war, but I know you. [SPEAKER_06]: Not a point to tell me. [SPEAKER_06]: You just remind us of everyone's grandpa. [SPEAKER_06]: And that's why we all love him because he reminds us of our grandpa. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: I love my grandpa though.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: Okay. [SPEAKER_07]: So I have to possibly say the most infuriating one to the widest swath of people. [SPEAKER_07]: Mass Effect to was the worst game of the original trilogy. [SPEAKER_07]: I'll just go ahead and lay out my explanation. [SPEAKER_07]: When Mass Effect won, we're introduced to the plot concept of, okay, we're hunting down this rogue specter and along the way, we learn that there's a much larger plot happening in the background where there are these sentient psycho machines trying to exterminate all life.

[SPEAKER_07]: All of a sudden, Mass Effect two rolls around. [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, oh, by the way, you're dead, but you're resurrected again. [SPEAKER_07]: And this time, you're fighting turd monsters. [SPEAKER_07]: Sorry, collectors. [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the reapers are preparing and whatnot.

[SPEAKER_07]: That's still going on, but, but you know what, the collectors are kind of the biggest you right now. [SPEAKER_07]: So they're abducting entire human colonies and we need you to form an A team. [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, here's a bunch of money. [SPEAKER_07]: Here's some resources. [SPEAKER_07]: Go form your A team and that part is going to be like ninety percent of the game.

[SPEAKER_07]: So ninety percent of the game is recruiting people and then ensuring their loyal and then like how many missions do we actually have that are not recruitment that are not loyalty missions like four five I don't know it didn't take that long I know that so it's just a departure it's a departure from the what I feel is the the [SPEAKER_07]: bedrock narrative of Mass Effect and then Mass Effect three rolls around and then brings us back on track.

[SPEAKER_07]: So I just feel like Mass Effect two is this weird kind of intermission. [SPEAKER_07]: Almost that we could have had a meaningful second entry into that reaper narrative. [SPEAKER_07]: That's my justification. [SPEAKER_02]: Sam. [SPEAKER_02]: in Mass Effect II when we're distracted from the Reapers the entire game.

[SPEAKER_02]: Who are we taking orders from? [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, I'm going to walk into this one. [SPEAKER_07]: Servers. [SPEAKER_02]: Who's led by the Alusus man? [SPEAKER_02]: Who is indoctrinated? [SPEAKER_02]: That's right. [SPEAKER_02]: Then when we come back home to focusing on the Reapers, it's when we're back under the lines military.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, you're going to prove my point here. [SPEAKER_02]: because the elusive man is indoctrinated and they're telling him to tell you to chase after the collectors. [SPEAKER_02]: Hence, maybe he's not that bad of a guy. [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, so I see where you're going with that like that there is a narrative explanation for that, but it doesn't mean that I all of a sudden like the narrative.

[SPEAKER_07]: I still feel like we didn't need to go that route. [SPEAKER_07]: We could have left the alliance if that was still in the cards. [SPEAKER_07]: We could have stuck with the alliance, but either way I just felt like Mass Effect to had the weakest narrative story of all of the Mass Effect trilogy.

[SPEAKER_07]: And I'm going to stick by that because Mass Effect II was ninety percent, was ninety percent recruitment and ten percent like advancing this reburnerative. [SPEAKER_07]: We learned some very important plot points from it. [SPEAKER_07]: Don't get me wrong. [SPEAKER_07]: The character development is amazing.

[SPEAKER_07]: And by the way, before anyone jumps down my throat, [SPEAKER_07]: The trilogy is still an incredible series of games, so being the worst of the trilogy in my opinion is still like better than ninety-eight percent of video games. [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, that's my own popular opinion and I would love to hear some of yours.

[SPEAKER_07]: If you're listening to this right now, if you think that you have a mass-fact opinion, that is going to raise our eyebrows even higher than anyone that has been mentioned on the show tonight. [SPEAKER_07]: Then please go ahead and leave us a comment either on Spotify or YouTube or you can leave us a review on Apple But I believe that that does it for tonight's patron chat I just want to thank the patrons one more time for all supporting this show the way that they do and We're gonna go around the horn here and we can say our farewells and let us know what you're up to starting with Magister What are you up to and how can people get a hold you?

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, so that's a whole lot of nothing right now, but measure divina on the Discord as well as Patreon and if you want to discuss about anything, will there be tabletops or video games? [SPEAKER_04]: Do hit me up. [SPEAKER_07]: All right, sounds good. [SPEAKER_07]: Jeff, how about you? [SPEAKER_07]: How can people get a hold of you and what do you up to?

[SPEAKER_06]: Not much, just like my good buddy Scott, who couldn't be here tonight because of the power outage issues due to weather. [SPEAKER_06]: But I am in the discord if you want to talk mass effects. [SPEAKER_06]: So just to me, I'm a discord superfly for forty is my handle in there. [SPEAKER_07]: Sounds good.

[SPEAKER_07]: You can. [SPEAKER_07]: What you got cooking. [SPEAKER_02]: Just hanging out on the discord, anybody that wants to send any fishheads, due to my own popular opinions, forty-two wildly wasted, you know, Australia is my address. [SPEAKER_02]: And just ping me in the discord if you have something that you want to talk about, and I will undoubtedly get involved in that conversation for sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anybody that's listening to this on Spotify or watching on YouTube? [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure in the link down below somewhere is a way to find our Discord. [SPEAKER_02]: If you get into the Mass Effect Warcast Discord and you throw some ideas around like the idea that we're discussing tonight came from our fans in the Mass Effect Discord throw an idea out there and maybe one's up on the show.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, great, great point, great point. [SPEAKER_07]: We do try and engage pretty regularly with the community. [SPEAKER_07]: Retrobot, what do you got cooking and how can people get to hold you? [SPEAKER_05]: Just busy at work. [SPEAKER_05]: Almost missed the stream tonight because of it.

[SPEAKER_05]: Otherwise, I'm just retrobot on the discord and retrobot on Patreon. [SPEAKER_05]: I want to talk about anything massive vector, anything else. [SPEAKER_07]: And I just noticed you're wearing your gift armory t-shirt from the Patreon. [SPEAKER_07]: That thing looks sweet. [SPEAKER_07]: A lot of people don't realize this, I think.

[SPEAKER_07]: But Genesis and I and Tom too, we never got access to those t-shirts from the tier four Patreon. [SPEAKER_07]: So I'm a little bit jealous of some of those designs. [SPEAKER_07]: Genesis, I know that you've got some other shows that you work on. [SPEAKER_07]: What is the next week? [SPEAKER_07]: Look like for you and how can people get a hold of you?

[SPEAKER_03]: I think Sam forgets the fact that I was a patron for three years. [SPEAKER_03]: So I have all the shirts he never got stuck up. [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, but you're disregarding the new set that we're going to release. [SPEAKER_07]: But go on. [SPEAKER_03]: That's true. [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe I'll recent back out for the Patreon just to get the shirts because they are actually really good shirts.

[SPEAKER_03]: They're comfortable as well. [SPEAKER_03]: But if you would like to hear more from me, you can check me out on the two girls one ship podcast where we analyze right and review all that the world of video game romances, including all of the mass effect romances. [SPEAKER_03]: spanning back to like episode number one because we started that show talking about Lyara in Mass Effect one.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then episode two has Sam talking about his favorite actually. [SPEAKER_03]: You can also check out the cyberpunk lore cast. [SPEAKER_03]: If you love things cyberpunk, we talk everything cyberpunk over there. [SPEAKER_07]: Right on. [SPEAKER_07]: All right. [SPEAKER_07]: Well, that does it for this week.

[SPEAKER_07]: Specters, tune in next week. [SPEAKER_07]: Genesis and I still have to huddle about what exactly we're talking about next week, but I will tell you this. [SPEAKER_07]: It's going to be related to corporate lore. [SPEAKER_07]: We're going to try and wrap up that sub series on lore, but I believe we have maybe a couple more episodes in the store.

[SPEAKER_07]: All right, Specters. [SPEAKER_07]: Until next time, we should go. [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks for listening to the Mass Effect War text. [SPEAKER_07]: Reach out to us on Blue Sky, Twitter, Discord, Patreon, or email us at Mass EffectLorecast at gmail.com. [SPEAKER_03]: Join us next week for more lore, same space, same time, or check out our live streams at twitch.tv slash Mass Effect Forecast.

209: Unleashing our ZESTIEST takes on the lore

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