238: Dude, Where's My Body: The Virtual Aliens Part 3

[SPEAKER_07]: I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite lorecast on the Citadel. [SPEAKER_07]: Welcome to the Mass Effect Lorecast. [SPEAKER_07]: I'm in seven the legend and I'm Genesis. [SPEAKER_07]: Join us as we explore along tides of light and through shows of dust to see where this lore began and consider where it may go.

[SPEAKER_07]: Specters welcome to a delayed episode of the Mass Effect Lorcast. [SPEAKER_07]: I'm your host in seven legend and joining me as always is my wonderful cohost Genesis. [SPEAKER_07]: We have taken a week off. [SPEAKER_07]: So this is me the first time you hear our voices in a couple of weeks if you're following week week.

[SPEAKER_07]: And there's a reason for that. [SPEAKER_07]: There's a couple of reasons for that number one. [SPEAKER_07]: being a stay at home dad has been kicking my ass and I have the the the scruffy beard to prove it right now if you're watching live. [SPEAKER_07]: This beard does not suit me and I'm under no illusion that it does.

[SPEAKER_07]: So I promise you this was not intentional but rather the product of not having a god damn in it to myself. [SPEAKER_07]: So anyway Genesis how are you doing? [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I think I'll disagree. [SPEAKER_04]: I don't mind the beard on you. [SPEAKER_04]: It's different for sure, but I don't mind it.

[SPEAKER_07]: Kind of you to say. [SPEAKER_04]: And the other reason that we'd had to delay recording for a while in the first time that this is that anybody has seen me on the air in over two weeks is that some of you may know that my daughter has a very complex medical history back in late June of 2022 [SPEAKER_04]: She had to have a major surgery, and it was complicated, and unfortunately, she Never fully recovered after she had a stroke during surgery [SPEAKER_04]: And since then, we have been in stroke recovery and just kind of regaining skills and whatnot.

[SPEAKER_04]: And unfortunately, that means that every once in a while we will have these stints of having to be re-hospitalized. [SPEAKER_04]: And going through the motions of figuring out is this disease progression, is this a new symptom that has popped up. [SPEAKER_04]: and unfortunately that's what happened this time.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was a brand new diagnosis has been attached to her file and we kind of had to readjust and learn a new normal. [SPEAKER_07]: Tim steps forward a few steps back, right? [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but her personality is coming back a lot more more than ever. [SPEAKER_04]: In fact, she got in trouble for mouthing off to me the other day.

[SPEAKER_04]: big time. [SPEAKER_04]: She's a teenager. [SPEAKER_04]: She is she reminded me full force that she is a freaking teenager. [SPEAKER_04]: When I gave her a kiss on the nose and she decided to flip me off. [SPEAKER_07]: Wow. [SPEAKER_07]: Ouch. [SPEAKER_07]: Ouch. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: I was like, one, I'm proud that you had the dexterity to fully extend your middle finger and hold it up directly into my face.

[SPEAKER_04]: Good job, but also, I'm your mother, child, I don't think so. [SPEAKER_07]: there will come a day when she will fondly reminisce on the kisses on the nose that you used to give her, but anyway, thank you for sharing that with us, you know, as of course we've been in constant contact, so I knew a lot of the background there, but thank you for feeling comfortable to loop our listeners into that.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I've talked a little bit about it over the years on the show, but never really dive deep into it and kind of explain the whole situation. [SPEAKER_04]: And I just felt like now was kind of the time to do it because this is the first time it's over forced me to take a break from hosting Mass Effect rather than like skipping a Patreon chat back in the day.

[SPEAKER_07]: So, well, I'm happy that everything is on the mind and hopefully with the recent development, things are better long term. [SPEAKER_07]: So, I'm trying to tipto and carefully not disclose more information than it would be appropriate. [SPEAKER_07]: But anyway, with that, we have the exciting conclusion to the virtual aliens arc that we are going to cover today.

[SPEAKER_07]: And as a brief reminder for everyone else, last time that we talked, we left off with the stunning revelation that [SPEAKER_07]: It is true that the MIT scientist Jordan Dettwiler's body was moving around the Citadel even though Jordan Dettwiler was inside the virtual world of the aliens.

[SPEAKER_07]: was actually inside Jordan Dettwilder's body, Dunk, Dunk, Dunk, Dunk, Dunk, or yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: So that was the stunning revelation that we left off with and Dettwilder's daughter was not happy about it. [SPEAKER_07]: After [SPEAKER_07]: having met with who she thought was her father.

[SPEAKER_07]: She thought maybe he was acting odd because his body was deteriorating after spending too much time in the virtual world and speaking of which Genesis, I see here in the notes that you've [SPEAKER_07]: Notated exactly what that time dilation is between a, you know, a minute that passes in our real world and the time that passes in the aliens virtual world.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I also want to shout out the writers for doing the math because for once the math actually math, you know, normally when we hear like six hours it was nearly 180 years and that's what the hackers experienced and then they were like, oh but Jordan went in for a minute and it was only like six months.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was like in my brain that time dilation didn't seem to correlate very well, but once you actually do the math, it does. [SPEAKER_04]: One minute, six months, two minutes, one year, one hour, 30 years, six hours, 180 years. [SPEAKER_04]: 24 hours is 720 years in the virtual world. [SPEAKER_04]: And using that time frame, the 8,000 real world years, which is the original estimated age of the ship, [SPEAKER_07]: You know, it's crazy, too.

[SPEAKER_07]: GTA 6 still hasn't dropped at that point. [UNKNOWN]: No. [SPEAKER_07]: We're still waiting on the next Mass Effect. [SPEAKER_07]: They've been teasing it for 2.1 billion years. [SPEAKER_07]: No. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that escalates rather quickly. [SPEAKER_07]: And as a reminder, the hackers were basically in there for 180 years.

[SPEAKER_04]: And that's why their brains came out as much because they weren't expecting that. [SPEAKER_04]: They had no clue what was happening to them when they went in and act that. [SPEAKER_04]: But Jordan went in knowing what would happen. [SPEAKER_04]: Because he spoke to the AI first. [SPEAKER_07]: So I wonder if that means that while you are in the virtual world, your brain is aging faster than your body.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think you're consciousness in your mind. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, for sure. [SPEAKER_07]: So, yeah, who knows. [SPEAKER_07]: But I guess that poses an extreme danger to spend any longer, but I would guess than one hour in there for a human being anyway. [SPEAKER_07]: For a salarian, I feel like they probably can't spend longer than a minute in there.

[SPEAKER_04]: Ah, I mean, yeah, we wouldn't want to give them more than like two to five minutes in there. [SPEAKER_04]: Keep it under 30 years living an entire salarian lifespan [SPEAKER_07]: Retrobot and chat here brings up a great question, which is, do you think that they would need a gray box to store hundreds of years of memories?

[SPEAKER_07]: There is a finite storage capacity for anyone's brain, so I feel like if they wanted to keep the memories of their real life. [SPEAKER_07]: they may need a gray box before they go in. [SPEAKER_07]: Because our brains work with latency, so the more recent memories take priority. [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_07]: unless it's like really core long-term memories like, you know, who your mom and dad are, you know, our brain's store with latency. [SPEAKER_07]: So with that being said, your brain would keep the memories that it got in the virtual world, but forget many of them from your life before. [SPEAKER_07]: So yeah, you would need a great box to keep that.

[SPEAKER_04]: coming out and forgetting everybody who you just left them, you know, maybe a day ago, you left yesterday, but for you 720 years of past and you've completely forgotten everything about your former life. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that barista where, you know, you go to coffee every day before work and they've learned your order and you're in a first name basis with, we'll call her Cheryl.

[SPEAKER_07]: and all of a sudden, you go get coffee from Cheryl. [SPEAKER_07]: She looks oddly familiar, but you don't really know why, and you don't bring it up, and she just thinks you're an asshole now. [SPEAKER_04]: Yep, but she still remembers your coffee order because that's what a good barista does right and you're a little creeped out by that How did you guess my coffee right?

[SPEAKER_07]: And even though it was just one day All right, well, we pick up kind of right where we left off with a Breaking news report from the Citadel. [SPEAKER_07]: This is from Cerberus Daily News. [SPEAKER_07]: It says breaking news tonight from the Citadel wait. [SPEAKER_07]: I'll put on my newscaster voice [SPEAKER_07]: Breaking news tonight from the Citadel, well, we're 5 already fucked up.

[SPEAKER_07]: Breaking news tonight from the Citadel, where Ambassador Seigen, the virtual alien inhabiting Dr. Jordan Dettwilder's body, called an unscheduled press conference to issue the following statement. [SPEAKER_07]: Long ago, our people lived in your universe of physical matter. [SPEAKER_07]: When our son went supernova, we sought refuge in a virtual world, free of needless pain and suffering.

[SPEAKER_07]: Climate disasters, disease, and many other ills faced by creatures of solid flesh. [SPEAKER_07]: Some now feel that the remaining in this world after the danger had passed was a mistake. [SPEAKER_07]: we realize that distress can sometimes provide a catalyst for evolution. [SPEAKER_07]: We miss the turmoil of physical existence.

[SPEAKER_07]: As such, I formally petitioned the Citadel Council for asylum. [SPEAKER_07]: I no longer wish to return to my former world. [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, so here we have the virtual alien who has inhabited Jordan Deadwilder's body, saying, I don't wanna go back. [SPEAKER_07]: I think I'll keep this body.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's terrifying. [SPEAKER_07]: I'm also completely expected. [SPEAKER_04]: You will, yeah, of course. [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, the fact, we missed the turmoil of physical existence, and that is just like so counterintuitive to the way that I am, because I'm like, ugh, physical existence right now.

[SPEAKER_04]: Why? [SPEAKER_04]: Why must we live through these trying times? [SPEAKER_04]: And these people want to come back to it. [SPEAKER_04]: They miss having form. [SPEAKER_04]: They miss solid flesh. [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I also could not imagine. [SPEAKER_04]: not being able to touch anything.

[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if in this virtual world you get to experience a sensation such as touch, but there's no way that I can feel the same out here. [SPEAKER_07]: the crazy part is for me, so we just talked about the time dilation, right? [SPEAKER_07]: So this ship is 8,000 real galactic years old, which means that the people inside the virtual world have spent 2.1 billion years.

[SPEAKER_07]: and we have second telling us that they miss the turmoil of physical existence, so to miss something means that you remember how it felt. [SPEAKER_07]: There are beings in there who have existed for longer than 2.1 billion years. [SPEAKER_04]: That's a very good point, because you can't miss something if you never knew it, and he's saying that they were real beings in the past and they want to go back to that, because they can't stand the on-week of perfection living in the virtual world, let me more.

[SPEAKER_07]: The crazy part is that they would remember it after 2.1 billion years of memories made in the virtual world. [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I guess that's part of the whole thing of that's why they have the AI, their artificial intelligence, and it's kind of running everything. [SPEAKER_04]: And maybe the reason that their ship takes so much battery power is because they're storing all that knowledge.

[SPEAKER_04]: And it could just be memories that they chose to not forget. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: Retrobot asks, are they reproducing or are they just immortals? [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think that we've covered that yet, but I think if I were to hazard a guess, I would say that they're probably avoiding reproduction because of the extra energy you would take from the ship to run yet another program, basically.

[SPEAKER_07]: We kind of. [SPEAKER_04]: We kind of talked about this when we were talking about the reincarnation aspect of it if these memory being, if these virtuals could kind of replicate or split and then rejoin and create a whole different being. [SPEAKER_04]: So maybe not reproduction in the fact of, you know, one plus one now creates a new one, but maybe multiple beings can come together and form one singular new consciousness.

[SPEAKER_04]: or split into many different consciousness that worked came out wrong. [SPEAKER_04]: But you know what I'm trying to say. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I guess maybe we'll find out but right now the more pressing issue is that this ambassador Sagan saw his his ticket out. [SPEAKER_07]: of the virtual existence, which I suppose is somewhat like a prison for them, no.

[SPEAKER_07]: And basically says, yeah, I don't want to go back. [SPEAKER_07]: And I just need permission from the Citadel Council. [SPEAKER_07]: How do you think they're going to respond? [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think that they're going to be a fan of this. [SPEAKER_07]: But how exactly do you force him to go back?

[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know how you would force him to go back. [SPEAKER_04]: Is it up to Debtweiler? [SPEAKER_04]: Is he the one that on the other side of this, the virtual world saying, okay, let me back into my body, or does the person controlling the flesh actually have to go and somehow link up or jack in, or however you wanna state it from like a cyberpunk terminology, you know, it's thinking the little ports that you pull out.

[SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's like how, how does that portion of it actually work? [SPEAKER_07]: who decide how would the people outside the virtual world in our own galaxy, how would they get word to debtwiler that Sagan has gone back on the deal and that Sagan wants to keep his body, like, how would they or would they get word to debtwiler?

[SPEAKER_07]: Because I imagine if debtwiler learns of this while in the virtual world, he may just go scorched earth. [SPEAKER_04]: I think it all has to do with the artificial intelligence of the ship, because that's who Death Loiler was in contact with in the beginning. [SPEAKER_04]: And that's who he reached out to and was able to communicate the one that posed the original questions of, give us the 100 millionth decibel of pie and was doing all these knowledge tests.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I think communication with the virtual world is done through the separate, yet integrated [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, wow. [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I wonder how debt-wilder's daughter feels about this and I think we do get an update in the next part, right? [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, we do. [SPEAKER_04]: It reads out, after yesterday's stunning request for asylum, Ambassador Sigeon has been placed in a secure wing of the Presidium, while the Citadel Council deliberates its course of action.

[SPEAKER_04]: Questions have a reason about the legal, ethical, and physical implications of allowing the emissary to remain in Jordan-Datwiler's body, while the exobiologists [SPEAKER_04]: When asked what the council should do if the aliens were to hold debt-wiler hostage, debt-wiler's daughter Kira said, pull the plug, remind them who's really in control.

[SPEAKER_04]: The council has already rolled out this option, citing the moral implications of wiping out the last remnants of an entire civilization. [SPEAKER_07]: So I think that the council is kind of missing her point, like I'm not sure that Kira was actually saying, like, just exterminate them, I think she's actually saying threatened that, like, you know, remind them of the leverage that you have.

[SPEAKER_07]: which, if you're, since SIGEN took it this route, it's not exactly a friendly route, but since SIGEN took it this route, I understand where she's coming from, where she's basically saying that like, look, if this is now a negotiating table thing, within we have to remind them what leverage we have.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I don't think that she's saying pull the plug on the entire ship. [SPEAKER_04]: She's just saying pull the plug on my dad. [SPEAKER_04]: Let my dad's consciousness return to his body and kick this alien out of it and not necessarily stop providing power to the entire ship. [SPEAKER_07]: That's yeah, that's a good point.

[SPEAKER_07]: I think I read it the same way that that she is basically saying if my dad is being held out hostage inside the virtual world, then it's a mood point like his body isn't him anyway. [SPEAKER_07]: So just, you know, have my dad's body, I guess. [SPEAKER_07]: Go. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: With that count as as murder of Ambassador [SPEAKER_04]: only if the consciousness doesn't automatically return to the virtual world, like we don't know how that part of it would work.

[SPEAKER_04]: If I'm thinking with my cyberpunk brain, then yes, if you unsafely unjack a person from the net, you kill the the consciousness and the body. [SPEAKER_04]: But if you do it safely and the correct way, then both things get to remain. [SPEAKER_07]: I would say legally, anyway, that if we're talking about swapping consciousness, then the person who was born in that body has the legal right to that body.

[SPEAKER_04]: Agreed. [SPEAKER_07]: So I don't think this would count as murder of Ambassador Sagan as much as it would be reclaiming stolen property. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that would definitely track the only thing it would be is like if if Kira pulls the plug to get her dad back without the proper safety steps or whatever it takes to do this swap, if kicking him out does kill him maybe, but I don't know.

[SPEAKER_04]: I don't I don't think it [SPEAKER_07]: It's a good, but I think that you can because they are sentient. [SPEAKER_07]: So, you know, if you see their life somehow, I think that still counts as murder. [SPEAKER_07]: But in this circumstance, I don't think it is murder because it's like, well, you're not, if your life sees this to be because you are in a stolen body, [SPEAKER_07]: And they're just reclaiming the stolen body and you die because of that.

[SPEAKER_07]: I don't think that's murder. [SPEAKER_07]: Now they have killed you, but it's not murder because murder is a criminal intent, right? [SPEAKER_07]: So anyway. [SPEAKER_04]: And here we are looping back to all the crazy questions that we started this whole series with, you know, like the moral of an ethics behind all of it.

[SPEAKER_07]: Right. [SPEAKER_07]: Yes. [SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely. [SPEAKER_07]: And so, um, you also have to wonder how basically everyone else is taking this in the Milky Way, right? [SPEAKER_07]: Because this is like a completely uncharted territory, [SPEAKER_07]: and Ambassador Sian isn't the only virtual alien who wants out.

[SPEAKER_07]: uh, but they need bodies to do that. [SPEAKER_07]: So we get the next update from Cerberus Daily News. [SPEAKER_07]: It says, Deadlocked Council deliberations over the fate of Ambassador Sagan ended today with a surprising twist. [SPEAKER_07]: The Council will grant asylum to the virtual alien emissary in the body of a volunteer, allowing famed MIT exobiologist, Dr. Jordan Dettwiler, to return to his own body.

[SPEAKER_07]: help an Evelyn of Ambassador Saigon. [SPEAKER_07]: How absolutely benevolent. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, hey, just give me like a, you know, like a like a like a lemon or like a like a rental. [SPEAKER_07]: Like a third party bot. [SPEAKER_07]: Who's this volunteer? [SPEAKER_07]: I feel like they basically just kidnapped someone on death row.

[SPEAKER_07]: I feel like that's what they did. [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe, I don't know. [SPEAKER_04]: I can think of people who would volunteer for a body swap. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but like permanently? [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, so it continues. [SPEAKER_07]: It says Ambassador Sagan will transfer her coach.

[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, I was misgendering Ambassador Sagan. [SPEAKER_07]: My apologies. [SPEAKER_07]: We'll transfer her work on business into the volunteers body while the volunteers consciousness is downloaded into a computer. [SPEAKER_07]: Upon hearing this decision, some 400 individuals from various races have volunteered to quote-unquote swap places with aliens inside the virtual world who wish to rejoin the physical universe.

[SPEAKER_07]: Interesting. [SPEAKER_07]: One of sorry volunteer, regard of this as, quote, an amazing opportunity to explore a new realm of existence. [SPEAKER_07]: While a salarian volunteer said, quote, I'm doing it because I'm tired of our universe. [SPEAKER_07]: It's a mess. [SPEAKER_07]: real he's real for that right I kind of love that uh and I guess salarians would want to do this you know maybe it's the only way for them to experience more than 30 years of life yeah wow That would like I don't know if anyone would be able to comprehend the genius of a salarian who's able to live for thousands of years [SPEAKER_04]: Right?

[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, that's, that's, you're solving hundreds of the problems on the Citadel. [SPEAKER_04]: You're solving, you know, you can get world peace. [SPEAKER_04]: You know, you can do so much by life. [SPEAKER_07]: That's by year 700. [SPEAKER_07]: That's, that's not even like, yeah, thousand.

[SPEAKER_07]: Um, but yeah, uh, wow. [SPEAKER_07]: So I can also see why this might be in a peeling decision. [SPEAKER_07]: for people who are disabled. [SPEAKER_07]: For people who are perhaps stuck in bodies that either they were never able to use to their full functionality or after some kind of traumatic accident lost functionality.

[SPEAKER_07]: I can see why this would be extremely appealing. [SPEAKER_07]: how it would feel for the virtual aliens coming in. [SPEAKER_07]: That's a completely different story. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah and now do you see kind of why I brought up the brain traumas and complications that my own daughter has faced and now she's physically immobile.

[SPEAKER_04]: If I was given the opportunity to send her to a place where she could have a fully functioning body and live out her life going back to who she should have been. [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I would do it. [SPEAKER_04]: I would swap my body first somebody to go and have 15 years have 30 years of raising the daughter that I had as a kid, you know, the first 10 years of her life were totally neurotypical and then the surgery and then now to I could possibly have an opportunity to watch her grow up.

[SPEAKER_07]: You could even, sorry, I don't mean to bring levity to this, but you could even launder a body, you could like, you could okay, so bear with me here. [SPEAKER_07]: So like in this scenario, we bring your daughter into the virtual world, but what if you brought her back out into the like our own world in a like a third body, like a different body?

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, geez. [SPEAKER_07]: That's what I was saying with laundering bodies, right? [SPEAKER_04]: Swap her into a different body. [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, if there was a volunteer for it, why not? [SPEAKER_04]: uh that would be interesting for sure, but I mean even to give her mind the ability to recover recuperate and regain all of its mental functionality and then putting it back in the body that she's incrementally and having that brain power to motivate the physical recovery she needs to go through.

[SPEAKER_04]: So it would work either way. [SPEAKER_07]: Well, yeah, I can only imagine, and especially this story must have really cut you deep when you were reading it. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it was a little bit different when I started it and we were going through it and then in the middle of this mini series we had a hospital stay this part three definitely hit differently, but you know we're good we're solid we're back home and that's the part that really matters, but it's also just really interesting to think about how.

[SPEAKER_04]: these their multiple alien races who are now willing to go and do this, you know, because the first person was human, we believed the hackers were also human and now we have other races. [SPEAKER_04]: Do you think in a sorry would be more mentally equipped to handle the long time dilations band because of their naturally long life?

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, because biologically they're aging in a slower rate. [SPEAKER_07]: So I would guess that an assauray could spend longer in the virtual world than a human good or longer than, you know, a salarian could. [SPEAKER_07]: I wonder how long a crogan could spend in there because as far as I remember, they're kind of like lobsters.

[SPEAKER_07]: And as much as no one knows what their natural life span is. [SPEAKER_07]: right. [SPEAKER_07]: So who knows what a Crogon would gather in the virtual universe or even if they would, maybe they would want to go like a Crogon might want to go into the virtual world because maybe in the virtual world they can live out what it would be like to actually have children who would survive.

[SPEAKER_04]: Jennifer just can exist in the virtual world. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: And maybe... Betsarian, who manages to escape the hegemony, right? [SPEAKER_07]: The authoritarian grasp of their homeworld government might want to escape for good, right? [SPEAKER_07]: Or anyone, for that matter, anyone that's on the land, anyone that's on the run from the law, whether or not they're just fire not.

[SPEAKER_07]: So wow. [SPEAKER_07]: psychosocial implications and political implications that this would bring up when you have like you know hundreds of people volunteering like hey send me into the virtual world they can have my body and I'll care of anyway that takes us in the middle of the show why don't we go to the mid-break and when we come back I can't wait to get into the rest of this virtual aliens arc all right here we go [SPEAKER_05]: We have beef, bacon, we have beer, the foods of my people.

[SPEAKER_00]: Young men have funny ideas of what a story are like. [SPEAKER_00]: I blame the extra net, and computer games. [SPEAKER_05]: Rex, shepherd, Grant, shepherd, Rex. [SPEAKER_07]: All right, here we are in the middle of the show and this is the part where you read out your five star reviews that you've left us We don't have any new ones.

[SPEAKER_07]: It looks like on Apple podcast or audible or anything like that. [SPEAKER_07]: However, I do see that there are a couple of new comments on our Spotify [SPEAKER_07]: So the virtual alien's part two episode on Spotify. [SPEAKER_07]: PL-day Arena, hope I said that, right? [SPEAKER_07]: Says, funny you mentioned Odyssey, both Mass Effect and AC Odyssey are in my top favorite games, just like this podcast.

[SPEAKER_07]: Thank you for the lore and the good vibes, greetings from Spain. [SPEAKER_07]: Well, thank you, thank you for your comment, and I didn't know that we even had a Spanish listener, but now I do. [SPEAKER_04]: My grandfather was originally from Spain. [SPEAKER_07]: Yep, my wife has ancestral roots in Spain as well.

[SPEAKER_07]: So, all right, if you want to get your comments right out in the middle of the show, you can leave us a five star reviews on Apple Podcasts or audible or podjacer, cast box, podcast addict. [SPEAKER_07]: There's a number of other platforms that we aggregate reviews from, or you can comment on our most recent episode on Spotify.

[SPEAKER_07]: I know most of our listeners do use Spotify so all of that helps us if you've been enjoying listening to the show please leave us a review because it helps us appear higher when people are searching for new shows to listen to so that is sometimes even more valuable than any other kind of support that people can give us but speaking of support [SPEAKER_07]: I do want to take some time to shout out our tier 5 Patrons and don't don't worry, just to say I know that there's a pop quiz for voice line.

[SPEAKER_07]: But let's shout out our tier 5 Patrons, William, Superfly, 440, Redrabot, Lieutenant Tussino, Kira-C, Edboy, and Day. [SPEAKER_07]: And we also have two new Patrons to shout out. [SPEAKER_07]: Finn Riera's Bite, 22, and Kili, W. [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you for signing up on the Patreon. [SPEAKER_07]: If you listen to the show and you're able and willing to help us financially, that goes a long way for both Genesis and I, and you can find us on Patreon at Mass Effect.

[SPEAKER_07]: Well, it's patreon.com slash Mass Effect Lordcast. [SPEAKER_07]: That's all I'm going to say for the selfish business plug, but Genesis, you've got a voice line pop quiz for me. [SPEAKER_07]: What is it? [SPEAKER_04]: So it's a high love crogan and there's a second one if you need a hint afterwards.

[SPEAKER_07]: OK, let's bring up these voice lines in our shared Google Drive here. [SPEAKER_07]: All right, I see the one that says, I love crogan. [SPEAKER_07]: Let's give it a listen right now, shall we? [SPEAKER_02]: I love crogan, passionate, violent, they burn bright and quickly burn out. [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, I'm gonna play that one again.

[SPEAKER_07]: I need to. [SPEAKER_02]: I love Crogan, passionate, violent, they burn bright and quickly burn out. [SPEAKER_07]: Is that Moran's? [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, ding! [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, it is. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, alright. [SPEAKER_07]: Well, there's such a limited time frame where you can quote Moran from.

[SPEAKER_07]: That's the fact to uh, during her loyalty mission. [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, I don't think that it's actually, mmm, mmm, it's not doing her loyalty mission. [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think, at least that's not, no, it's not, it's definitely not where I pulled this clip from. [SPEAKER_07]: So you'd have to get this if you decide to save more than instead of some more of them.

[SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_04]: I would love for you to play the hint, even though you don't do it. [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, fine, fine. [SPEAKER_07]: All right, I'll play the hint. [SPEAKER_07]: Here's the hint. [SPEAKER_07]: I love it when you're angry. [SPEAKER_07]: No way. [SPEAKER_07]: Grunge? [SPEAKER_07]: Grunge of A.B.

[SPEAKER_07]: She should put on bars for multiple reasons, but Grunge of A.B. [SPEAKER_07]: I bet she was on that list, and you know the list I'm talking about. [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: But apparently Grunt is on the wood list and more emphasis on the wood not so there we go Yeah, well, I guess if you've got a death wish I don't see a better way to go out death by snoo- snoo- death by snoo- snoo- so all right.

[SPEAKER_07]: Well with that Let's get back to the rest of the show and we've got some pretty interesting discussion questions to get through all right here. [SPEAKER_07]: We go [SPEAKER_01]: After time, a drift among open stars, along the tide of light and through shows of dust, I will return to where I began.

[SPEAKER_06]: Celery and reproduction different, very little sex-tried. [SPEAKER_06]: If intended to try human, would try you. [SPEAKER_06]: Out, my pengaries! [SPEAKER_07]: All right, here we are in the second half of the show, and Genesis, am I reading this right that that was the final entry we get about the ghost ship?

[SPEAKER_07]: So we don't know what happens after those 400 volunteers step forward. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we know nothing beyond the sole area and going, I'm doing it because I'm tired of our universe, it's a mess, and then we hear nothing else about it. [SPEAKER_07]: Wow, so who knows what has happened to Jordan Depwiler?

[SPEAKER_07]: Maybe that's a thread that'll be picked up in the next game. [SPEAKER_04]: It could be. [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, especially since we don't know, the virtual aliens all live on one ship. [SPEAKER_04]: If that one ship wasn't anywhere near a solar system that was attacked by the wrappers, they could have easily survived the wraparanvation.

[SPEAKER_07]: And that's a big if, right, because all of this that we've been talking about in this arc happens in 2185. [SPEAKER_07]: So before the reaper invasion, and we don't know what happens to the ghost ship after the reaper invasion. [SPEAKER_03]: No, I don't think we do. [SPEAKER_07]: And we also don't, do we know how long their ship would have lasted with its current batteries and the power consumption that it needed?

[SPEAKER_04]: No, but I remember that they were only at 4% when they came hobbling to the Citadel. [SPEAKER_04]: And that's why it had reached out. [SPEAKER_07]: Well, if it took 8,000 years to get to 4%, that's 96% over 8,000 years. [SPEAKER_07]: How many years per percent is that? [SPEAKER_04]: a lot, that's I did my math before recording so I wouldn't have to do math on the spot.

[SPEAKER_04]: But no, so I mean in theory they could survive a lot longer, but if you also go on like the cell phone theory where soon as your battery dips under 15%, it starts dying a lot faster than going from 100 down to 80. [SPEAKER_07]: sure who knows if it's linear who knows if it is linear then they definitely have enough battery to survive until the reapers get there right so they may just still be waiting on some kind of final decision from the council about whether or not they can get the batteries restored that was like the whole point [SPEAKER_07]: of them making contact, right?

[SPEAKER_07]: But now with Ambassador Sagan's Revelation, I'm starting to second guess that. [SPEAKER_07]: I'm starting to second guess whether or not they even needed help in terms of more energy for the ship. [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe they just wanted some out. [SPEAKER_04]: oh okay so maybe it kind of was they were going to use the excuse of a low battery in order to see if anybody's willing to body swap and who knows maybe we're not the first race that they approached maybe some of the outlying planets are virtual aliens instead [SPEAKER_07]: I think, yeah, I think that there's good reason to suspect that that whole energy thing may have been a ruse.

[SPEAKER_07]: Because they've already demonstrated through SIG and that they're not just capable but willing to use deception to get what they want. [SPEAKER_07]: terrifying honestly. [SPEAKER_04]: It is, and this is one of the smartest, most intelligent AIs ever to have been created, lived or functioned, whatever you want to call it, and it can't make a rechargeable battery.

[SPEAKER_04]: It can't figure out a way to maybe harness solar power to recharge said batteries. [SPEAKER_04]: There's no way to do that. [SPEAKER_07]: That would need to be an [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, and I guess there's the no hands thing. [SPEAKER_04]: How do you manufacture something? [SPEAKER_07]: All right.

[SPEAKER_07]: How do you manufacture anything? [SPEAKER_07]: Um, I don't think the AI on the ship even has manufacturing capability, right? [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, otherwise wouldn't they just be kidnapping? [SPEAKER_07]: Like organic bodies and then using them. [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that's also scary thought.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: But I guess there could have been volunteers. [SPEAKER_07]: Definitely don't plug them in too. [SPEAKER_07]: You know what I would do? [SPEAKER_07]: I would just round up a bunch of keepers. [SPEAKER_07]: There you go. [SPEAKER_07]: You want a body? [SPEAKER_07]: Here's all of these people right here.

[SPEAKER_07]: They all volunteered. [SPEAKER_07]: There you go. [SPEAKER_07]: You can take the keeper bodies. [SPEAKER_04]: Keepers do regenerate and self replicate. [SPEAKER_04]: That's not a bad idea. [SPEAKER_07]: and they get a cute little backpack out of the deal too. [SPEAKER_04]: And they can all have little sad faces.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: Hey, and no one knows where they come from or how they reproduce. [SPEAKER_07]: So it's not like you'd be really, you know, setting them back a lot. [SPEAKER_04]: Ooh, retro brought brings up a good point. [SPEAKER_04]: Definitely feel like they could have reached out to the guests.

[SPEAKER_04]: The guests definitely create their own bodies. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, the gift don't care about their platforms, because it's just a platform to them. [SPEAKER_07]: So they could have, although that would have implied, well, in 2085, you know, if we are to believe that it was not purely happenstance that they ran into the council species, then they would still have good a reason to avoid the death at that point.

[SPEAKER_07]: Because the death could like just wipe them out easily. [SPEAKER_07]: The Geth could view them as a possible virus in their system, right, if they tried to interface. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, they would have had to have had a secondary-like interpreter for the AI to speak to the Geth and the Geth just speak back to it without their being major conflict between the two of them.

[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, I could see that. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, wow, AI on AI conflict would be terrifying as well. [SPEAKER_07]: So, all right. [SPEAKER_07]: So, I notice that you have some discussion questions here, and the first one is pretty interesting. [SPEAKER_07]: It says, should one scientist really have the authority to negotiate on behalf of the galaxy?

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, him and what army, right? [SPEAKER_07]: Like, who, who made him king? [SPEAKER_07]: I agree. [SPEAKER_07]: But I feel like he was merely there to open the door. [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and this question really goes back to the beginning portion when we were talking about how that while I was going in and speaking with the AI and speaking with all of the virtual inhabitants on behalf of the council on behalf of the entire galaxy.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I don't think we ever really have a way to concretely say what did Jordan say while he was in the virtual world? [SPEAKER_07]: Right, we have to rely on him. [SPEAKER_07]: yeah i guess i don't think the council really thought this far ahead i feel like they probably just said okay well we need to make first contact somehow uh and this here's this expert who's willing to do it so just go in there um that said uh i wonder if Jordan [SPEAKER_04]: That's a, yeah, yeah, we just don't know in that case was he fully on board for, I mean, obviously, I think he was on board for the body swap, the initial one, and so that way, say again, [SPEAKER_04]: But was a time frame negotiated, was a limit put in place, were there anything to say these are my wishes of how I want this handled?

[SPEAKER_07]: And then again, how do you verify that? [SPEAKER_07]: Because even if you do have like a second source, a second human or a terrian or a sari or a salarian or whatever, inside the virtual world, how do you make sure that everything that you are perceiving is true? [SPEAKER_07]: Because everything you're perceiving is passing through the filter of the ship's AI.

[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, perception in a virtual intelligence and you know what also kind of sparked by my senses on this one [SPEAKER_04]: Even if Jordan were to come back and return to his body, how do we know that that's actually Jordan? [SPEAKER_04]: And not a different virtual alien going, I learned all of Jordan's life history because we just spent 10,000 years together.

[SPEAKER_04]: Of course I know everything about his human life, so I'm going to be the one to jump out instead. [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_07]: It's like that's the whole conundrum of like the stranger in my dead. [SPEAKER_07]: Like you know what I mean, like, wow, I thought my husband was doing things a little bit differently, now it makes a lot more sense.

[SPEAKER_04]: Why are you swapping? [SPEAKER_04]: Oh man, this gets really really complicated. [SPEAKER_07]: Now it'd probably be a quick way to find out. [SPEAKER_07]: Your spouse would know. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, I, I, I would hope that somebody would be able to tell if I wasn't me anymore. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, yeah, um, the horizontal tango wouldn't really make sense maybe to the virtual aliens.

[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, that's a good point, too. [SPEAKER_04]: Never done that before. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, where do I put this? [SPEAKER_07]: Huh? [SPEAKER_07]: Okay. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, so, um, I also think that even if Jordan did come back, like a what point is he really no longer fully human? [SPEAKER_04]: It's another great question because the fact that you've experienced this much time dilation, what does that do to your human psyche?

[SPEAKER_04]: You've also spent so many years as a virtual alien when you come back, are you still fully human? [SPEAKER_04]: because no human has lived 720 years and is able to come back into their body and still what 720 years is 24 hours. [SPEAKER_04]: You come back a day later and have that huge of a time jump.

[SPEAKER_07]: That's, yeah, I mean, I don't think they would be able to come back because of what happened with his hackers, but even if they did find a way to come back after that long after six hours, yeah, I feel like this would inherently change them as an individual. [SPEAKER_07]: I guess that kind of gets to the, to the root of what makes us human, right?

[SPEAKER_07]: Uh, maybe it's the sum total. [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe it's nothing. [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, if you were on the council, Genesis, would you save them? [SPEAKER_07]: Would you save these, uh, virtual aliens? [SPEAKER_04]: I would. [SPEAKER_04]: I can't stand on the moral ground of saving all crogan by curing the genophage, and then going, no, don't give these people batteries.

[SPEAKER_07]: That's assuming they're telling the truth. [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, yes, assuming that they're telling the truth and all that they truly need is batteries and it's not like other than the one case that we see with Jordan, they're not forcing any of these other 400 people to, you know, do do the body swapping.

[SPEAKER_04]: they're only taking volunteers at that point after, you know, maybe it was the first time that they were able to do a full mental body swap. [SPEAKER_04]: And that's why SIGN didn't want to give it up. [SPEAKER_04]: It's because this is a brand new experience for anybody on our ship in the last eight two billion years.

[SPEAKER_04]: I don't want to give this up. [SPEAKER_07]: I just had a really, really sad thought about how this kind of thing would be implemented and the kinds of people who would also want to take up and quote unquote volunteer to go into the virtual world for good and give their body to the virtual alien is people who are living an object poverty.

[SPEAKER_07]: people who can't make rent, who are living in the bowels of the Citadel, right? [SPEAKER_07]: People, people whose lives are such a living hell that they're willing to give up their life entirely, if it means no longer suffering. [SPEAKER_04]: there are people who make the decision to no longer wanting to live in their own personal hell and choose a permanent way to leave it.

[SPEAKER_04]: And this is now just a different option that allows you to stay live on, but no longer living in your own personal hell. [SPEAKER_04]: Now what 780 years is going to do to your mental health if you're not actively seeking help once you make it into the virtual [SPEAKER_07]: Well, yeah, I can imagine the advertisements now.

[SPEAKER_07]: Are you under crippling debt? [SPEAKER_07]: You know, come to the virtual world where we don't have money. [SPEAKER_07]: Money doesn't exist and you know, you can get whatever you need at a moment's notice. [SPEAKER_04]: Or come to the virtual world and we'll pay you and that we'll pay your family 10,000 credits for your body.

[SPEAKER_07]: If that is Giga Cyberpunk, yeah, that's ffff, man, that's gritty and painful, that's, yeah, ffff, man. [SPEAKER_07]: uh... they should follow up on this on the next mass effect for sure i would love to get some resolution and find out what happened to these people and if the virtual race is still out there and what what what all would go on what if it turns out that they had been approaching different worlds over the the last thousands of years to essentially colonize them with their own virtual aliens inhabiting the natives bodies [SPEAKER_07]: So they were approaching other worlds in the past, right?

[SPEAKER_07]: Like, let's say 6,000 years ago, the virtual aliens made a stop at Earth. [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, okay. [SPEAKER_07]: Or, yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: Hell, like a few hundred years ago, they did, and that's what happened to the colony of Roanoke. [SPEAKER_07]: They could have been a lot of fun with this.

[SPEAKER_04]: They definitely could, or, you know, it's like they, a planet that the, the council didn't have any idea about, because you've also got to remember that this exact time frame is the exact time that we met the Ralloy. [SPEAKER_04]: So if we're just now discovering the new race of the Railway at the same time we're finding this, there's bound to be other species out there that we haven't met yet.

[SPEAKER_04]: Or what if they go to a planet like where the Yag are from? [SPEAKER_04]: Where they are definitely sentient species yet, they're just not space-wearing yet, and the virtual aliens decide to come and attach onto their bodies instead. [SPEAKER_07]: man, you could have like the resurgence of consciousness that were believed to have been long dead and you could have them come back into the galaxy thousands of years after their alleged death.

[SPEAKER_07]: Can you imagine like, oh well, there was another virtual alien body swap and [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's also why the Shadow Broker Yog is so super intelligent, it's because he's a virtual alien yog. [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, a virtual alien as the Shadow Broker would be intimidating, very intimidating.

[SPEAKER_04]: 8 billion years of knowledge. [SPEAKER_04]: That's the shadow broker? [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, step aside, Leara. [SPEAKER_04]: I love you, honey, but you got nothing on that. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, here's another idea. [SPEAKER_07]: Would you allow people to go back and forth back and forth? [SPEAKER_07]: Because like, even debtwiler, who may not have ulterior motives, may not have any kind of criminal intentions, allowing that kind of thing, and allowing that precedent of going back and forth and back and forth, is so ripe for crime.

[SPEAKER_07]: Like you're allowing essentially time smuggling. [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I mean, are you talking about committing crime in the real world or the virtual world? [SPEAKER_07]: I'm talking about being able to take ideas from our real world and go in there, spend time to fully flesh imagine this.

[SPEAKER_07]: There is a team that is planning a heist. [SPEAKER_07]: and they need to come up with the perfect plan for executing said heist, but it needs to be done before this time when the armored truck comes by and picks up the money. [SPEAKER_07]: Right? [SPEAKER_07]: That's a perfect way to do that to go and have all of your planning done in the virtual world.

[SPEAKER_07]: So then that way, even if your team is caught after the heist, there is no evidence to suggest that any of it was [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I could see how that would definitely be a criminal benefactor being able to steal time to plan more elaborate schemes. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think that's why it might have to be regulated.

[SPEAKER_04]: And that's one of the things that, you know, I'm wondering to all of these volunteers are is the virtual society agreeing to allow these people? [SPEAKER_04]: Is there any form of vetting? [SPEAKER_04]: Do, you know, maybe it was one of those death row inmates that you guys talked about, like, let's let the aliens inhabit their bodies.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, what happens to that virtual to the, to the mind of the death row [SPEAKER_04]: Are you just going to kill that person's mind? [SPEAKER_04]: Because they were already scheduled for death, or are you going to allow them to live in the virtual world? [SPEAKER_07]: To live in exile. [SPEAKER_04]: To live in exile, but also to live on for potentially another billion years.

[SPEAKER_04]: Would the virtual intelligence society want somebody like that into the world? [SPEAKER_07]: All right. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: I can imagine the virtual aliens being like, [SPEAKER_07]: We need to close the border, they're sending their worst. [SPEAKER_07]: They're absolutely worst, they're sending rapists and murderers.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's horrible and I think the only time that I think I've agreed with you using that voice. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I don't know, and it could go both ways, right? [SPEAKER_07]: Like, like, there could be people on the citadel who are against the virtual aliens coming to our world or our galaxy because they would be like, you know, oh, man, I can imagine Terraforma right now, the Terraforma party being like, absolutely not.

[SPEAKER_07]: We don't know anything about these virtual aliens, and they have histories that are impossible to that. [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly, and they're they're taking people's bodies did you imagine that? [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, no it's it's a very touchy subject that I could see both sides having a lot of issues with.

[SPEAKER_07]: Definitely so you have a good point here which is is the greatest threat the ghost ship or the secrecy around it. [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that we've kind of touched on that one a lot too. [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think it's the ship itself. [SPEAKER_04]: I think that it's the secrecy, whether it's being like, what was their true intention on coming to the Citadel with that much time that they have had living, what is that like?

[SPEAKER_04]: What does it look like? [SPEAKER_04]: Are they all the same person that have lived for 2 billion years? [SPEAKER_04]: Or is there some form of melding, mashing, re-separating, re-joining? [SPEAKER_04]: Are they reproducing, replicating? [SPEAKER_04]: Is there death in the real world? [SPEAKER_04]: The fact that we have, in the virtual world, sorry.

[SPEAKER_04]: The fact that we have so many unanswered questions is what makes me uneasy about the situation. [SPEAKER_07]: I think the fact that it's now been established that the virtual aliens are capable and willing of using deception to get their way, to achieve their means, or achieve their goals.

[SPEAKER_07]: That's the part that gives me the greatest pause, because if it hadn't been for ambassador Sagan admitting, [SPEAKER_07]: to basically taking debt while there's body and then pledging or asking for forgiveness instead of permission essentially. [SPEAKER_07]: If it hadn't have been for that, I think everyone without question would probably be on board that we need to help and save these people.

[SPEAKER_07]: uh... but now that they've proven the capability and the willingness to steal bodies basically that's a little terrifying um... so uh... there's a few other questions here that we have a discussion questions written down but i think we've touched on a few of them um... you have here for if a volunteer swaps places if their body dies do they die or do they continue living digitally [SPEAKER_07]: I would guess that their consciousness, which has been downloaded onto the virtual platform, is not like spiritually tethered to their body, so if the body dies, I would guess that they just continue living digitally.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think so, and yeah, because especially since we talked about the fact that the virtual aliens originally were real life people, real life beings that then split from their consciousness and were able to remain living in the virtual world regardless of a physical body of there still existed.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, and then you see here if the volunteer regrets it, if they have buyers remorse after 200 virtual years, so only about six hours can they come back. [SPEAKER_07]: I would imagine that that has to be a mutual decision with the virtual alien who has taken their body. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, am I signing a contract saying I limit my the use of my body for, you know, 10 hours, there you go, I will live in your world, you will live in mine and then when I go back or if I'm like, oh my gosh, no, I mentally cannot handle the idea of being away from my own body, you know, for an after an hour after two hours.

[SPEAKER_04]: Is there a way for me to pull out? [SPEAKER_04]: I don't want to be here anymore. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, sometimes pulling out a necessary, I would imagine that it's probably dependent A on biologically how much their bodies can take. [SPEAKER_07]: The hackers couldn't last longer than six hours, so when they did come back, they were screwed.

[SPEAKER_07]: And B ideally there needs to be some kind of like third-party storage device, like a [SPEAKER_07]: The guests would be a perfect, like, intermediary here because they don't need each platform that they have. [SPEAKER_07]: And I feel like assuming you've negotiated peace with the guests in Mass Effect 3, they would be friendly enough to volunteer their help here.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: Okay. [SPEAKER_04]: I can see that. [SPEAKER_04]: Providingly. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: Providing synthetic bodies to, to organics who have gone into the virtual world and want to come back. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, or the other way where it's a virtual alien who wants off of the ship and wants to live in the real world in happy to guess platform.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, yeah, so. [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, or with the virtual aliens even allow a, quote unquote, a guess into the virtual world, because you can't allow one. [SPEAKER_07]: or rather by allowing part of the death consciousness into the virtual world with that sequestered partitioned death consciousness that went in there with that consciousness achieved true individualization because it is no longer part of the high mind.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's literally severed like it doesn't, there's no way for it to continue to communicate with the death high mind. [SPEAKER_04]: I think they would at that point become individuals for sure, but would that be one individual death or would that be like, because Lee, to talk about like how his death unit cell is like a thousand platforms, it's a thousand minds talking, would that become one thousand individuals or would that become one integrated, meshed individual of a thousand minds?

[SPEAKER_07]: I don't know, I feel like there would only be one way to find out, and that's like fuck it, send it. [SPEAKER_07]: Like, we wouldn't know, and I feel like the geth would probably spend a lot of time trying to analyze and expect outcomes only to go ahead and do it. [SPEAKER_07]: And maybe it would create like some kind of paradox or feedback loop where some crazy sci-fi shit happens.

[SPEAKER_07]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_07]: I guess it'd be really interesting to find out. [SPEAKER_07]: Hopefully wouldn't corrupt the entire system and then everyone in the virtual world dies. [SPEAKER_04]: And there we go. [SPEAKER_04]: We just wrote the plot. [SPEAKER_04]: The plot of Mass Effect 5.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yep. [SPEAKER_07]: See, isn't being a writer easy. [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, before all the writers jump on their keyboards and furiously type, uh, at me, uh, know that I am being facetious. [SPEAKER_07]: And I hope you know what that word means if you're a writer. [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, so, one last question, would you do it?

[SPEAKER_07]: Would you go into the virtual world? [SPEAKER_04]: I would, like I talked about, I think that it would be amazing to have, you know, 30 years with my kiddo. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that would be, that would be amazing. [SPEAKER_07]: You know, when I, this is pretty personal, when I proposed to my wife, I remember thinking that, and when I got married, I remember thinking that even 50 years, if we are lucky enough to have 50 years together, even 50 years will not be enough time with you.

[SPEAKER_07]: And I can imagine that for like, let's say that there's a couple that's like in their 70s or 80s or whatever the equivalent is for humans toward the end of their lifespans maybe to board 140 because they're lucky to live to 150. [SPEAKER_07]: If there's a couple who agrees that they want to go ahead and live forever together, they could go into the virtual alien world.

[SPEAKER_07]: If you've spoken to enough elderly people, many of them will tell you that they don't want to live forever, that they are satisfied with their life coming to an end soon. [SPEAKER_07]: Um, many people are not, many people are afraid of death and are afraid of aging and maybe this would be a good option for them would I do it?

[SPEAKER_07]: Would I go into the virtual world? [SPEAKER_07]: Um, I would if I could periodically, like I don't, I don't want to live forever in there. [SPEAKER_07]: I, I would do it to manipulate how much free time I have. [SPEAKER_07]: Because I can't get a damn minute to myself right now with a little baby right so if I could be like hey honey Can you watch the child for a little bit and I'll be back and and literally five minutes And five minutes would be how long again it would be like years be like I'm about two and a half years so Yeah, like maybe not five minutes.

[SPEAKER_07]: I don't need five minutes in there. [SPEAKER_07]: I mean like maybe 30 seconds if that [SPEAKER_07]: No, because 30 seconds would be three months. [SPEAKER_07]: I need like 10 seconds, literally 10 seconds, honey. [SPEAKER_07]: I need 10 seconds. [SPEAKER_07]: Like, and so you go in there, 10 seconds later, you come back out.

[SPEAKER_07]: I am completely ready to go. [SPEAKER_07]: I got baby duty. [SPEAKER_07]: Don't worry about it, honey. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: You take this longer than that, Sam. [SPEAKER_04]: What were you doing? [SPEAKER_07]: You know, much longer than that, but who's counting? [SPEAKER_07]: One of my wife is counting.

[SPEAKER_07]: So yeah, I think I would, I would do it periodically, but not like not as a final, you know, fatalistic thing. [SPEAKER_07]: I would do it if my wife came with me and we would do it for vacations. [SPEAKER_04]: Oh vacation in the virtual world. [SPEAKER_04]: Okay. [SPEAKER_04]: All right.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, cheaper. [SPEAKER_07]: You can get to spend as much time as you want with family and when you're done, you come back. [SPEAKER_07]: Um, that's all assuming that like, you know, we could find a way to mitigate the physical effects on your body. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: uh... there's that aspect of it and would you do it if the only option was a true body swap or would you only do it if you were just going in yourself um... no because even if i could swap bodies back [SPEAKER_07]: After a predetermined amount of time, I don't trust the virtual alien in what it's doing with my body.

[SPEAKER_07]: Am I going to be held criminally responsible for whatever this fucker does with my body? [SPEAKER_07]: And how are they going to prove that it was not me who actually did the thing, and that it was a virtual alien instead? [SPEAKER_07]: Like, [SPEAKER_07]: Sir, we see that you, you know, uh, stole an entire pallet of cheese burgers from Costco.

[SPEAKER_07]: That wasn't me. [SPEAKER_07]: That was the virtual alien. [SPEAKER_07]: You know, like, I'm going to prove that. [SPEAKER_04]: Is it cheating if Navey were to kiss you while you were inhabited by a virtual alien? [SPEAKER_07]: Yes. [SPEAKER_07]: And I'll stand by that. [SPEAKER_07]: Yes it is because it's not me and there.

[SPEAKER_03]: What is you? [SPEAKER_07]: It's my body. [SPEAKER_07]: It's your lips. [SPEAKER_07]: This is what I'm saying when I say that like, this gets to the very point of very core of what makes us human, you know, is it the body or is it the consciousness? [SPEAKER_07]: And I think it's the consciousness because, you know, after someone dies, their body remains, right?

[SPEAKER_07]: But they have died. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: No, I agree. [SPEAKER_04]: It would be cheating. [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't think that you could be held currently responsible for what your body did while you were not inhabiting it. [SPEAKER_07]: There would need to be some kind of tracker system so that there was some kind of way that you could deduce who was in what body at one time.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: Well, maybe there's some form of AI log that would be like, okay, body swap happened at this moment in time and it happened back this way. [SPEAKER_07]: Right. [SPEAKER_07]: Right. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: Something like a border check.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yep. [SPEAKER_07]: Customs in border patrol at the computer where you switch out. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: all right well i think that pretty much covers it for the virtual aliens you know this is been a really fun three part series um i hope everyone else has enjoyed it as much um but and i wish we had more to go on but there's a lot of open-ended threads here that they could possibly pick up in the next mass effect [SPEAKER_04]: be sure and it would be interesting to see if we ever find out anything else beyond what we have and if we get to catch back up with them.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I am definitely going to be on the lookout for Dr. Jordan Deweller in any future media. [SPEAKER_07]: That would be cool. [SPEAKER_07]: Even a comic or something like that, yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: All right, well, um, Genesis, it's been real fun. [SPEAKER_07]: What do you got going on until next week and how can people get a hold of you?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so like I said at the beginning, my shows are finally starting to record again after I had to take a little bit of a personal hiatus, the two girls one ship podcast, we are currently covering Expedition 33 and the cyberpunk lore cast where we are in our alternate universe phase right now.

[SPEAKER_04]: Alt, cutting him alternate universe, what ifs. [SPEAKER_07]: love it. [SPEAKER_07]: All right, well, I have not streamed lately because being, you know, dad time has been kicking my ass and then when I finally get some free time to myself at the end of the day after my son's gone to sleep, I'm like, [SPEAKER_07]: you know, do I do I want to be in front of the camera?

[SPEAKER_07]: No, no, I don't. [SPEAKER_07]: And I don't, I don't want to talk more than I have to because I'm just spit. [SPEAKER_07]: So I haven't streamed a lot lately. [SPEAKER_07]: I am planning to at some point after I regain some kind of agency over myself. [SPEAKER_07]: So we'll see, um, but yeah, [SPEAKER_07]: I, when I am streaming, I've been streaming this tail of two wastelands fallout, uh, three plus fallout new Vegas, mash up together right now.

[SPEAKER_07]: I'm in the most fallout new Vegas part. [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm thinking that I'm going to end that, uh, play through siding with yes man and taking control of the strip for myself. [SPEAKER_07]: So we will see. [SPEAKER_07]: Um, but. [SPEAKER_07]: If you want to watch those streams, if you want to get a hold of me, any account that I have is going to be at in seven the legend.

[SPEAKER_07]: And if you do add me on some kind of gaming platform, just let me know that, hey, I'm a listener of the lorecast. [SPEAKER_07]: That way, I know that you're not some random bot because there are a lot of those. [SPEAKER_07]: And I don't want to accept any friend of quest from them. [SPEAKER_07]: So that's all we got for this week.

[SPEAKER_07]: Specters next week is the patron chat. [SPEAKER_07]: I think Nate, yeah, next week is going to be the patron chat, right? [SPEAKER_04]: It depends if we're doing it on Saturday or Tuesday, but we will figure that out. [SPEAKER_07]: We will figure that out. [SPEAKER_07]: We also have upcoming a special episode from myself and multiple other robots radio network hosts where we did a fun kind of like who [SPEAKER_07]: would win in such in such competition, I brought characters from the mass-factor universe whereas the other host brought characters from their own respective shows universes.

[SPEAKER_07]: So that's going to be a fun little interlude we will decide on when we're going to post that, but it will either be immediately preceding or succeeding this coming patron chat. [SPEAKER_07]: So until next time Specters. [SPEAKER_07]: don't give up your body willingly to a virtual alien and if you do get a virtual alien coming over maybe go into some kind of Johnny Silverhand situation where you've got both of you in the same body.

[SPEAKER_07]: Let us know how that works out if you do. [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, take care of Spectre's, we should go. [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks for listening to the Mass Effect War text. [SPEAKER_07]: Reach out to us on BlueSky, Twitter, Discord, Patreon, or email us at Mass EffectLoreCast at gmail.com. [SPEAKER_03]: Join us next week for more lore, same space, same time.

[SPEAKER_03]: Or check out our live streams at twitch.tv slash Mass Effect WarCast.

238: Dude, Where's My Body: The Virtual Aliens Part 3

Kapitelklicken springt direkt hin

Shownotes

Transkriptvom Podcast bereitgestellt · Zeitmarken springen hin