242: Earth's Biggest Political Scandal

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite lorecast on the Citadel. [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the Mass Effect lorecast. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm in seven the legend. [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm Genesis, join us. [SPEAKER_02]: As we explore along tides of light and through the shores of dust to see where this lore began.

[SPEAKER_04]: And consider where it may go. [SPEAKER_02]: Specters welcome back to the Mass Effect Lorecast. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm your host in 7-Elegent. [SPEAKER_02]: Joining me as always is the wonderful Genesis and Genesis. [SPEAKER_02]: We match today. [SPEAKER_02]: We're both wearing burgundy shirts.

[SPEAKER_02]: At least yours looks burgundy. [SPEAKER_03]: It is burgundy. [SPEAKER_03]: I actually picked this up from the men's aisle because I liked the way that it fit. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. [SPEAKER_02]: Target. [SPEAKER_02]: Was it Target? [SPEAKER_02]: Because I got this shirt at Target. [SPEAKER_03]: No, I mean, it could be from Target.

[SPEAKER_03]: I got this at Goodwill, actually. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Goodwill has some hidden, hidden gems sometimes. [SPEAKER_02]: I have actually found some computer parts there before. [SPEAKER_02]: But that's not what, was this isn't the Goodwill lore cast, although now I am interested in the lore of Goodwill.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I will have to check that out on my own time today. [SPEAKER_02]: We are talking about perhaps Earth's biggest political scandal [SPEAKER_02]: in the mass effect universe. [SPEAKER_08]: And that's why I hate politicians. [SPEAKER_02]: So as I will play that sound effect multiple times today, while talking about this, because this is like, I don't know, Genesis, you know, I read through this as well, and I had read through it once before about the president of the United Nations, or I'm sorry, what is it?

[SPEAKER_02]: UNAS, it's the United North American states, that's [SPEAKER_02]: Christopher Huerta, who Huerta Memorial Hospital, is named after. [SPEAKER_02]: I had read this scandal about him and I feel wrong calling it a scandal because it's not like anything bad that he did. [SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, we'll get into it.

[SPEAKER_02]: But the controversy here and the vitriol that comes of it feel eerily close to home with political scandals. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it does. [SPEAKER_03]: I also do want to learn more about how the North American states has expanded, and so I think that that would be really good, interesting lore to get into in the future.

[SPEAKER_02]: it would be and in fact I was thinking along those same exact lines because I wanted some tidbits to throw in tonight. [SPEAKER_02]: And unfortunately I don't think that we really have any details about what preceded the Canada Mexico in the United States forming. [SPEAKER_02]: I know that that basically space travel accelerated the conglomeration of political nation states on Earth.

[SPEAKER_02]: as a general thing, but the specific circumstances about what was going on on the continent and maybe the health of the dollar or the health of other currencies we don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: So I just want to throw that out there to begin with. [SPEAKER_02]: this episode there's going to be a lot more narrow focus on President Huerta and this controversy that came about when the president's own legitimacy and authority were challenged because he was technically dead.

[SPEAKER_02]: long reaper foghorn. [SPEAKER_02]: So without further ado, let's get into it. [SPEAKER_02]: We hear about the story again from Cerberus Daily News. [SPEAKER_02]: So if none of this sounds familiar, that's why, you know, if you didn't pay attention to these. [SPEAKER_02]: So I'll kick us off here and say, [SPEAKER_02]: The dispatch starts with the nations of Earth are in suspense tonight, as the systems alliance hears Ford versus Huerta, the first case of a human leader using reconstructive data storage to prolong his brain functions and stay physically capable to perform his duties.

[SPEAKER_02]: And first of all, this is, I know we talked about the formation of the UNAS. [SPEAKER_02]: This is going on in 2021-85, during Mass Effect, too. [SPEAKER_02]: So, uh, goes on to say that the Speaker of the House, Lisa Ford, has led the charge against Huerta, saying that the last year of his term was illegitimate.

[SPEAKER_02]: Interesting. [SPEAKER_02]: Why would it be illegitimate because a stroke left the President legally dead, and in cryo cool, for an hour and a half before his brain functions were fully transferred to a computer. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that the presidential line of succession in the UNAS accounted for the possibility that someone would be dead and then uploaded to a computer and so are they technically alive.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's kind of like the heart of this. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm watching also by the way, as Maya's tale flicks everywhere in your face right now. [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: I am absolutely loving my cat right now. [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely not going to hear a window open and then I won't say anything.

[SPEAKER_03]: I also think that it's interesting that the transferring a brain function to a computer where have we heard this scenario before? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right. [SPEAKER_02]: I wonder if a certain organization stepped in and said, we can help out here. [SPEAKER_02]: because perhaps whereto was sympathetic to their cause.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it goes on and says, the amount of memory degradation was never fully revealed. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so that then gets into an ethical discussion about who are we? [SPEAKER_02]: You know, are you just you because of how you physically your physical make up? [SPEAKER_02]: Is that what makes you you or is it your memories?

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's memories, largely. [SPEAKER_02]: I'd say, in my opinion, maybe 10% of us is because we are who we are because of our physical traits. [SPEAKER_02]: But everything else was shaped by how we were raised and, you know, the experiences that we had and that kind of thing, you know, like physically right let's say I was taken, you know, from my family when I was like one day old and I was raised on the opposite side of the globe and a completely different culture, I would be a different person.

[SPEAKER_02]: like I wouldn't be me. [SPEAKER_02]: So the fact that the White House or not the White House, because it's not the US anymore, but the United North American states government does not want to reveal how much the president's memory degraded. [SPEAKER_02]: That's kind of a big deal. [SPEAKER_03]: It really is because, you know, what if some of the your personality is formed through your experiences, through the things, through your memories, and if part of why people like him, why they voted for him to become president, has now been drastically changed, that might not be the same person that we voted for.

[SPEAKER_02]: uh... yeah and so i'm sure a lot of our listeners can understand why if you heard the pre-show chat i was talking about how this one hits a little bit eerily close to home uh... it's it's also at the same time completely standard operating procedure for executive branches of governments to conceal health problems of current executives uh... for example [SPEAKER_02]: in during World War II, FDR had polio, and he got to a point where he could not stand on his own, and there were actual like props, propping him up at a lectern toward the end of his presidency when he was giving speeches.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was considered very bad taste if any of the members of the press, [SPEAKER_02]: were to snag a glimpse of him in a wheelchair and take that photo of him in a wheelchair. [SPEAKER_02]: There was a lot of protocol around how the president was perceived in public to the extent that I think it was president Obama who was the first president who was largely okay being photographed being a while eating.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, okay. [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was general rule of thumb for the press anyway to not publish photos of the president eating because A, you didn't want to get on the president's bad side for something so trivial and be it's if that actually not being seen eating is a is a very ancient practice that there's evidence that like like [SPEAKER_02]: my and rulers never wanted to be seen, seen, eating because they were thought to be gods, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And why do why does a god need to eat? [SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, that's a very ancient practice that leaders would not want to be seen as being fully human. [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's a problem when those kinds of things could be in the way of that leader governing. [SPEAKER_02]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: And for where to hear, if there was a lot of memory degradation, that could really hamper his ability to lead the U.N.A.S.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, absolutely. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So we don't know how much, if any memory degradation was gone, I mean, this could be 100% a computer AI that thinks it is where to governing. [SPEAKER_02]: But. [SPEAKER_02]: Ford, Lisa Ford, the Speaker of the House, is third in line in succession if the UNAS is anything like the U.S. government where the U.S. government presidential line of succession states that, you know, if a president is incapacitated or gone for some reason, then the vice president steps in, temporarily, if not permanently, permanently being until the next election.

[SPEAKER_02]: And if the same happens to the vice president, the Speaker of the House steps in. [SPEAKER_02]: So Lisa Ford presumably would have been third in line to the presidency, and we get this detail from Cerberus Daily News that says, according to the UNAS's line of succession, if where to was considered dead, then power would transfer it to the vice president and speaker Ford would have held the position of vice president for the last year.

[SPEAKER_02]: So just to wrap up, the speaker of the house is leading this lawsuit. [SPEAKER_02]: against president Huerta. [SPEAKER_02]: It's not like a speaker for it has nothing to gain here. [SPEAKER_02]: There's certainly a very clear conflict of interest. [SPEAKER_02]: It's not like this is a pure legal battle.

[SPEAKER_03]: right. [SPEAKER_03]: There's definitely more to this involved because at least a speaker for it has a lot to gain from it, to become not just speaker of the house, but now have that vice presidency. [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, we don't know who the current vice president is, and so, but they might also be pushing for this because you would want to be president, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: they could, however, if they were a member of the same political party, that would kind of be political suicide. [SPEAKER_03]: Hmm. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the party would never support you after that. [SPEAKER_02]: Sure. [SPEAKER_02]: At least it wouldn't really be a good idea, too, because then, you know, if the same thing happens to them, you know.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, there's a very, this, this is, [SPEAKER_02]: a medical situation turned political scandal because, and I imagine it is roiling every chamber of government in the United States, or North American states, that there is because it's the chief executive who was legally dead, and there's a lot of opaque details surrounding how he, if he even still does exist, became digitized.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and that's where it gets so tricky because if we say that being a person is, you know, our memories are thoughts and all of our emotions, and that was transferred to a computer, and then that data was transferred back into the body, are we still the same person? [SPEAKER_03]: If there was no degradation, are we still the same person?

[SPEAKER_02]: And the other thing is like, you know, critics could always point to and say, hey, voters didn't vote for that. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like, if this had happened before the election and then the voters still voted that, okay, fine, that's what people wanted, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but this was kind of done, like, what was it?

[SPEAKER_02]: It did do we know how far into his term it happened? [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think so. [SPEAKER_03]: saying that his last year of his term was illegitimate. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So this happened. [SPEAKER_02]: We don't know how long the terms are, right? [SPEAKER_02]: But presumably four years.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so. [SPEAKER_02]: serve the majority of his term and obviously sounds like not running for a reelection we would know by this point right last year of a term suspiciously quiet the vice president is so I wonder if we're going to get any other further details about that. [SPEAKER_02]: Jen you want to take us to the next part next chapter of this saga that we get.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we are now bringing it towards more of the actual legal court case and petitioners witnessed testifies in Ford V, where the expert witnesses were introduced today in these systems alliance trial of Ford versus where the starting with the petitioner side. [SPEAKER_03]: Dr. Samuel Walker testified today that President Huerta was brain dead for too long to make a full recovery.

[SPEAKER_03]: Questioned on Huerta's apparent cognitive health afterward, Walker's testified that the VI ran Huerta's artificial memory so successfully that it took over his brain functions. [SPEAKER_03]: So that quote, there was no where to anymore. [SPEAKER_03]: This is not a person with a VI memory.

[SPEAKER_03]: It is a VI with a partially organic operating system. [SPEAKER_03]: It concludes the respondents' experts will begin testimony tomorrow. [SPEAKER_02]: So just to clear this up, this is a witness for Ford's side. [SPEAKER_02]: So this is a witness that they brought in, obviously they're not going to bring in a witness that's going to say something that would hurt their case.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: So they probably voted a few doctors found one that agreed, right? [SPEAKER_02]: But what's missing here is Dr. Walker's direct tie to the medical case, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Was he in the operating room? [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so. [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't sound like it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Was he given all of the private medical records of the president? [SPEAKER_02]: These are, you know, questions that might come under scrutiny when Dr. Walker says inevitably cross-examined. [SPEAKER_03]: I would agree, but I also, in order to testify on a case, you have to have either expert knowledge in the situation or be the one that was present.

[SPEAKER_03]: So maybe not the surgeon, but maybe the person who was his neurologist, the one who was [SPEAKER_02]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: If Dr. Walkis is where to neurologist. [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. [SPEAKER_02]: I think they need to lead with that to establish credibility. [SPEAKER_02]: The fact that we haven't seen that tells me that this is just perhaps a neurologist.

[SPEAKER_02]: not doctor where does neurologist but but yeah um the uh credibility of doctor walkus is is kind of if i'm if i'm a juror or if i am the magistrate hearing this case right uh perhaps i am wondering why doctor walkus [SPEAKER_02]: as opposed to another doctor right. [SPEAKER_02]: But that's just me kind of being as scrutinizing as I can right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: If Dr. Waccus what Dr. Waccus said is true that medically, where to was gone for too long to have made it full recovery that it's medically impossible, that's a huge deal. [SPEAKER_03]: Hmm. [SPEAKER_03]: It is because if you were you were brain dead, you were gone, you were out. [SPEAKER_03]: That's when, you know, you make your family makes a decision to take you off a light support in your past.

[SPEAKER_03]: But with this, they made, we don't, we also don't know who made the decision. [SPEAKER_03]: was it in where it's as will that he wanted to be passed on to a VI? [SPEAKER_03]: Was it, you know, his wife or his spouse or family members? [SPEAKER_03]: Or was it the government and the doctors going, [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, you know, we recently learned about all of this new VI technology and going into a virtual alien headspace uh, because of the virtual aliens that we've recently met because it's right there within the same time frame.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's try it out on a human and see if we can transfer a consciousness to the computer and then upload it back into the same body. [SPEAKER_02]: If it was the decision of political operatives or people who were serving alongside the president in the executive branch, it would make sense considering that the prerogative is to keep the president alive no matter what, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: That's the prerogative. [SPEAKER_02]: If they were offered this alternative, [SPEAKER_02]: they would probably say do it, you know, we're not going to wait and consider the ramifications, you know, while time is wasting, keep them alive. [SPEAKER_02]: Now, you know, um, and deal with the aftermath later, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because if, if you're in the room and you have to make that call, [SPEAKER_02]: You're like, the prerogative is to keep the present in life, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Don't think about it. [SPEAKER_02]: Just do it. [SPEAKER_02]: So I can only imagine how difficult that was. [SPEAKER_02]: From a human, from a humane point of view, obviously, it should be the family.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it should be the family. [SPEAKER_02]: And whoever was in present and where it was will. [SPEAKER_02]: We don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: We don't know that. [SPEAKER_02]: It could also be a political operative looking to take advantage of the situation. [SPEAKER_02]: Because as we know, politics is full of wolves.

[SPEAKER_08]: And that's why I hate politicians. [SPEAKER_02]: damn right Ash. [SPEAKER_02]: So, very interesting legal questions being asked, you know, basically being asked to define when someone is alive, are they alive? [SPEAKER_02]: If even if their memories were all 100% intact, completely, you know, un-tampered with and they were transferred flawlessly to a computer, [SPEAKER_02]: Right, a lot of ethical and legal questions being thrown out and even if they are the same person is the fact that they had died does that void their status in office, right, because every government has a line of succession for its executives.

[SPEAKER_02]: and if we're going to say that, well, being dead doesn't necessarily take you out of office, then it's going to throw lines of succession like, hey, why are everywhere, right? [SPEAKER_02]: There could be a lot of unintended legal consequences from this, depending on how the court rules.

[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, now with that, I want to, I want to go to the midbrake because it's a lot that we just talked about today just, but we've got some fun stuff to get into in the midbrake, some lighthearted stuff, and we'll come back with more political scandal. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, here we go. [SPEAKER_05]: We have beef, bacon, we have beer, the foods of my people.

[SPEAKER_09]: Young men have funny ideas of what a story are like. [SPEAKER_09]: I blame the extra net and computer games. [SPEAKER_05]: Rex, shepherd, grunt, shepherd, rax, grunt. [SPEAKER_02]: All right, here we are in the middle of the show. [SPEAKER_02]: This is where we read out your five-star reviews and Genesis.

[SPEAKER_02]: Looks like we got a new one. [SPEAKER_02]: Would you like to do the honors? [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, sure. [SPEAKER_03]: We have from Avapodcasts from red can't fly, titled I couldn't think of an interesting title. [SPEAKER_03]: I feel that. [SPEAKER_03]: I feel that so much. [SPEAKER_03]: goes hi there.

[SPEAKER_03]: I started listening to this podcast in October of 2025 and I'm finally caught up. [SPEAKER_03]: This podcast has helped me get through many long days at my manufacturing job. [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm very grateful to N7 legend and Genesis for this for continuing to make quality content like this.

[SPEAKER_03]: big thanks to Tom as well for those early days. [SPEAKER_03]: I actually started playing the trilogy for the first time ever in July of 2025 and the game hit everything I like in sci-fi and in RPGs as well as having incredible combat. [SPEAKER_03]: I haven't had a game impact me so personally in a long time, and I'm actually going as FEMSHEP to mega-con this year to commemorate it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks again to you both, I should go. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that was awesome. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Red can fly. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if I agree with you about having incredible combat in the year of our Lord 2025, but obviously, we love the game as well. [SPEAKER_02]: And it must have made a huge impact on you.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you only started playing in July 2025, and you're already going Cosplaying's Fimpship, so that's awesome. [SPEAKER_02]: I hope the cosplay turns out great. [SPEAKER_02]: You could drop some photos of that in the Robots video discord on the Mass Effect [SPEAKER_02]: We also have a couple of comments I wanted to highlight from our most recent episode on Spotify, the Keepers.

[SPEAKER_02]: So here's an interesting one from Haku X Tamari. [SPEAKER_02]: Hopefully, I said that correctly. [SPEAKER_02]: As a housekeeper, I can relate to the keepers. [SPEAKER_02]: Ignored and under-appreciated by tenants despite working to keep their workplaces clean to using the [SPEAKER_02]: It sounds like it's a reference to that bio vet.

[SPEAKER_02]: Surprise, you didn't mention the shadow broker feed in, I believe, Mass Effect 2, where we see a keeper leaving a Crogan corpse in the Citadel ramps. [SPEAKER_02]: That is such a good call. [SPEAKER_02]: Haku, thank you for reminding me. [SPEAKER_02]: I always blank about those tidbits and videos from layer the shadow broker.

[SPEAKER_02]: Haku says, still feel there's more to go over, but so good to see them discussed. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for the comment there. [SPEAKER_02]: And we have another great one from Shannon, a more potter who writes, if the keepers were their own race that was conquered by the Reapers and the Reapers make Reapers that are races they conquer, do you think there's a keeper Reber out there somewhere?

[SPEAKER_02]: Possibly, Genesis and I were talking about this before the show, those, those Reapers that walk around on four legs like the first one we encounter on Earth and Mass Effect 3, and we got to shoot it with the cane. [SPEAKER_03]: they look kind of keeper like yeah i tried to remember what this reaper looks like um but i'm too worried about killing it rather than paying attention to what he looks like so i you know what oh damn i guess i'm just gonna have to play through mass effect three again [SPEAKER_02]: gonna have to twist her arm.

[SPEAKER_02]: Alright, well thank you for those comments guys. [SPEAKER_02]: You're all amazing that reading those is some of the highlight of my week. [SPEAKER_02]: And Genesis, we got a sound effects voice line pop quiz. [SPEAKER_02]: I think you got one for me, right? [UNKNOWN]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_02]: All right, I hear, uh, or I see rather the file, the sound file is just called dancers.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to play this one and I got to guess where it's from who said it and when. [SPEAKER_02]: All right, here we go. [SPEAKER_00]: Guess the Asari are wishing that if you were dancers and more command does write about now. [SPEAKER_02]: Wow. [SPEAKER_02]: Wow. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so that's Joker clearly.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to guess that this is while we are handling Thesia in Mass Effect 3. [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I'll give it to you. [SPEAKER_03]: It is the conversation that you have with Joker after returning from Thesia. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, because he wouldn't say it beforehand, but yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, all right, awesome, nice.

[SPEAKER_02]: And a really insensitive remark honestly from Joker. [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, I know it continues on. [SPEAKER_03]: And he's like, Joker says, oh, sorry, too soon. [SPEAKER_03]: And then Renegade Shepherd rips into him. [SPEAKER_03]: Like, of course it's too soon. [SPEAKER_03]: We just lost millions of a sorry.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then Joker's like, well, you know, I deal with pain and trauma through laughter and dark humor. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, that was a little bit in bad taste though. [SPEAKER_02]: Like I like most of Joker's remarks, but that one has been bad taste. [SPEAKER_03]: And then he goes off about how his sisters most likely did and all that stuff.

[SPEAKER_03]: So he's like, so I'm sorry if I have to laugh through the pain in order to keep going. [SPEAKER_02]: That's like not the only insensitive remark that Joker makes about a sorry, right? [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just going off the top of my head right now. [SPEAKER_02]: I could have sworn that Joker makes another one too.

[SPEAKER_02]: And Lyara, like it's too Lyara, maybe? [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, there's a couple of joker in moments where it's like, hmm, not quite sure how I feel about that line, and then the pressuring her to talk about her body in ways she's not comfortable with. [SPEAKER_02]: The head dinnacles?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, uh, joker. [SPEAKER_02]: We can joker's got to get some sensitivity training. [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure he loved that. [SPEAKER_02]: Yep. [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks. [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, thank you for the voice line. [SPEAKER_02]: We have a new patron to shout out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Max Swagster. [SPEAKER_02]: Sure. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for signing up on the Patreon, Max, Swagster. [SPEAKER_02]: We also have our Tier 5 Patrons that we'd like to shout out every week. [SPEAKER_02]: And those are William, Superfly, 440, Redrabot, Lieutenant Tussino, Kira C, Edboy, and Day.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you all for your continued support of this show. [SPEAKER_02]: We're going five years strong, actually in our sixth year now. [SPEAKER_02]: And we have no signs of stopping thanks to people like you. [SPEAKER_02]: And with that, let's get back to the rest of the show. [SPEAKER_07]: After time adrift among open stars, a long tides of light and through shows of dust, I will return to where I began.

[SPEAKER_06]: Celery and reproduction different, very little sex drive. [SPEAKER_06]: If intended to try human, would try you. [SPEAKER_06]: Ow, my bakeries. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, and here we are in the second half of the show. [SPEAKER_02]: We've got this huge legal and political battle shaping up centered on the debate of whether or not [SPEAKER_02]: the president's last year of his term was legitimate because he was legally brain dead and uploaded to a VI software.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to hear now, we already heard from the petitioner side, so that's the speaker of the House. [SPEAKER_02]: Lisa Ford side. [SPEAKER_02]: We heard from witness from their side, but we haven't heard from the president's side, the witnesses for the president. [SPEAKER_02]: But now that changes, we get an update.

[SPEAKER_02]: expert witness Dr. Lynn Sheen testified in the system's alliance trial of Ford versus where to today. [SPEAKER_02]: He claimed that the former president made a full recovery from a temporarily brain dead state. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so we're getting a direct contradiction. [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, from what we heard from Dr. Waccus, uh, stumbling a little wind grilled on where it is timeline of cognition, Lynn nevertheless made the case for where to being in full control, once his motor functions in memory were assigned synthetic analogs, okay, holy shit.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that means that they still have his brain and a body. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, so the way that I'm understanding this is that his consciousness was downloaded to the computer and then re-uploaded back into his own body. [SPEAKER_03]: It's not like it's in a computer, it's not like it's got shifted to an Android body or anything like that.

[SPEAKER_03]: They basically went, okay, I'm gonna pluck you out and then put you right back in, hard reset. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, that's interesting. [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe I need to go back and reread it, but I had this mental image forming of like the president eaten and fall out three Where it's this brain and a jar of of liquid, you know So maybe I need to go back and reread that, but yeah, that's really interesting taking his brain like His memories out of his brain onto a computer back into the brain Once everything was okay [SPEAKER_02]: And can you imagine like, like, what if it just 100% is him, and you've got people like your him imagine your him and you've got people debating whether or not you're even alive now.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's where it's really weird. [SPEAKER_03]: It's because it's like here, but it's because it's this VI. [SPEAKER_03]: There's now a VI aspect to it because when you got uploaded to the computer, it's a VI that's running the artificial memories. [SPEAKER_03]: Or it's running these memories.

[SPEAKER_03]: And because we have the line here, this is not a person with a VI memory. [SPEAKER_03]: It is a VI with a partially organic operating system. [SPEAKER_03]: So that's what makes me think that it's back in his own human body. [SPEAKER_02]: That line, that line right there, I question how that is quantified.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right? [SPEAKER_02]: So this is a doctor saying this. [SPEAKER_02]: How are you coming to that determination? [SPEAKER_02]: Right? [SPEAKER_02]: The first part about Dr. Wonka saying that the president was brain dead for too long to make a full recovery. [SPEAKER_02]: I can understand how a doctor can make that judgment call based off of how long the president was brain dead.

[SPEAKER_02]: and how long a human brain can survive like that, right, before there's significant brain damage. [SPEAKER_02]: Those are all quantifiable elements. [SPEAKER_02]: What's not a quantifiable element is being able to say that the VI [SPEAKER_02]: took over his brain so successfully that there's nowhere to anymore.

[SPEAKER_02]: How do you come to that? [SPEAKER_02]: How is that qualifiable and how is it quantifiable? [SPEAKER_02]: I cannot see, I can see someone making that judgment call, but they cannot affirm that with evidence, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Like, how do you quantify that with evidence? [SPEAKER_02]: You know, is there some kind of measurement that's being taken place that's concluding with this judgment?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because I don't think so. [SPEAKER_02]: And because Dr. [SPEAKER_02]: Walk has made this remark, it sounds like Dr. [SPEAKER_02]: Walk has also a political operative. [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I guess this is where we would get into things like the touring test and or from a game called Detroit become human.

[SPEAKER_03]: The Coneg test where it's, you, you're trying to figure out if these VIs, if these artificial intelligences are true intelligence or just a construct. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it's a great, great question. [SPEAKER_02]: I would love to know what kind of tests are being run. [SPEAKER_02]: For now, though, we get a quote from Dr. Xihin, the president's witness who says, to believe that he is now a different person as synthetic is to draw a line where no line is needed.

[SPEAKER_02]: he argued. [SPEAKER_02]: A new man did not appear on the table when the first open heart surgery was performed. [SPEAKER_02]: His life was merely extended beyond what was thought possible at the time. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so there's another piece of evidence that supports what you had thought about what was going on with his body, that he still has his original body.

[SPEAKER_02]: and that he's like the memories that we're taking from his brain were put back into that original body. [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm not sure if that changes how we think of this about whether or not his term was legitimate or not. [SPEAKER_02]: And moreover, if it does change how we thought about it, you know, like as [SPEAKER_02]: basically backed up on the cloud and then put back in his brain, um, does the presence of the president's body change how we think about the legitimacy of his term?

[SPEAKER_02]: And if it does, perhaps we should ask ourselves, why? [SPEAKER_03]: I agree. [SPEAKER_03]: I, the, it makes it really, it blurs the lines a little bit because if you are looking at somebody and okay, that's where to all I see is his body, I see his facial expressions, everything like that.

[SPEAKER_03]: I can hear the voice, I can witness the mannerisms that maybe made him unique. [SPEAKER_03]: then I'm like that is where to, but then if I were to learn all this stuff that there's actually some VI controlling all of that, it brings into the question on whether or not he's still fully human.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's I think that's fair. [SPEAKER_02]: However, I think it also like I'm trying to I'm trying to think about this [SPEAKER_02]: the closest comparison that I think we can make is let's suppose that President of Werta had, you know, he did have a stroke and let's suppose that instead of his memories being extracted and put into a different brain, that his cognitive functions were not impaired, but his communicative ones were.

[SPEAKER_02]: So the President was left unable to speak. [SPEAKER_02]: right? [SPEAKER_02]: But motor functions there, everything else still there. [SPEAKER_02]: As we know, being able to speak is kind of a key part of politics, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Being a good orator. [SPEAKER_02]: Would this argument still come up?

[SPEAKER_02]: I bet at what? [SPEAKER_02]: I bet there would still be critics who say that's not actually the president. [SPEAKER_03]: Um, hmm, it puts me personally in a very interesting situation, somebody suffering from a stroke and can no longer speak, are they still who they are? [SPEAKER_02]: And then had you verify and all this kind of difference overall of very painful argument.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: I would just say that is if there was none of this memory transfer stuff going on, absolutely whoerta is still wherta, suffering a stroke can no longer speak, can no longer talk move, do any of that, absolutely that is still wherta. [SPEAKER_03]: It's just the aspect of the memory transfer that makes things a little bit more complicated.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, regardless of the ethics of all of this, technologically speaking, it's quite impressive that they were able to essentially do dialysis with a brain. [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely. [SPEAKER_03]: It's crazy. [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm betting that this technology came from the virtual aliens.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that's the only reason that they were able to do it. [SPEAKER_03]: And then, I mean, that's interesting. [SPEAKER_02]: You go there with it. [SPEAKER_02]: I was going somewhere else. [SPEAKER_03]: See, and now knowing about the virtual aliens, I wonder if the elusive man got the technology from them.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm, had perhaps an operative, maybe those people who went in and got their brains turned into scrambled eggs, maybe they were surplus operatives. [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they weren't just random, you know, scabs. [SPEAKER_03]: The random hackers were not random. [SPEAKER_03]: They were service agents.

[SPEAKER_03]: Damn. [SPEAKER_02]: that that would check it out. [SPEAKER_02]: That's totally Tim's prerogative right there. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, very much. [SPEAKER_02]: But so, uh, actually Yukon Cornelis just brought up in chat. [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't see this until now. [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, brought up, you know, 2185 was the completion of Shepherd's Lazarus project.

[SPEAKER_02]: Shepherd took two years to resurrect and that project completed the same year that the president was rebooted in under two hours was serverous behind the president's procedure using [SPEAKER_02]: I can see them being consulted, but considering how many credits was spent just on the one project of Lazarus.

[SPEAKER_03]: But that was, but that was also reconstructing Shepherd's body. [SPEAKER_03]: In this case, they don't have to reconstruct a body. [SPEAKER_02]: That's true. [SPEAKER_02]: It would be a small part of the project. [SPEAKER_02]: It'd just be a much smaller scale. [SPEAKER_02]: and you come brings up a great great question.

[SPEAKER_02]: What is control of a sitting present at work? [SPEAKER_03]: Oh God. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, I guess we could ask Vladimir Putin. [SPEAKER_03]: Oops. [SPEAKER_03]: I know that, no. [SPEAKER_02]: Or perhaps, Benjamin Netanyahu. [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, on that note, we should go to the next chapter of the president who are to, [SPEAKER_02]: court case because it sounds like the justices I would assume they're justices that this should be the highest court in the land that they have made a decision about whether or not the last year of his term was legitimate given his stroke.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it reads out that the controversial Earth court case of Ford versus where it came to a close-to-date with a five-four decision supporting the end of the president's term. [SPEAKER_03]: Chief Justice Ling announced this is not the first time human beings have technically died only to be brought back with proper medical attention.

[SPEAKER_03]: that the window of resuscitation has lengthened is no reason to support a partisan attack on the legitimacy of the president. [SPEAKER_03]: The legal definition of death must be expanded beyond [SPEAKER_02]: very fascinating. [SPEAKER_02]: So the ramifications of this court case are not just affirming the legitimacy of the last year of his presidency, but also rewriting the legal definition of death entirely.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's good because you're right, especially with the medical technology, what humans are living to be like 120 now in the time of Mass Effect and sometimes beyond that. [SPEAKER_03]: And there has to be something that we can quantify and say like, this is what the definition of death means.

[SPEAKER_03]: And because, yeah, being brain dead [SPEAKER_03]: Being kept alive by a machine doesn't necessarily mean that you're dead now in this world of Mass Effect. [SPEAKER_03]: There's more to it. [SPEAKER_03]: I think it has to be that your heart can no longer support itself. [SPEAKER_03]: Your lungs are no longer supporting you yourself and your brain is no longer working.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think all those things and then cellular degeneration. [SPEAKER_03]: Once you can draw blood and see that the blood vessels are slowly dying off and oxidizing, then that would be what it would be considered to be cellular death as well. [SPEAKER_02]: Wow. [SPEAKER_02]: I also find it interesting that Chief Justice Ling here calls it a partisan attack on the legitimacy of the president.

[SPEAKER_02]: Instead of addressing whether or not the case had legal merit or legal standing, I should say, [SPEAKER_02]: sentence of this legal opinion. [SPEAKER_02]: This is not the first time human beings have technically died. [SPEAKER_02]: Only to be brought back with proper medical attention. [SPEAKER_02]: That is dismissing legitimacy of the legal merit that this case has that the petition has.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then the next sentence is immediately cutting it out under the knees by calling it a partisan attack. [SPEAKER_02]: I wonder if Chief Justice [SPEAKER_03]: Hmm, probably. [SPEAKER_02]: And that goes into the legitimacy of the court. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, does this court hold legitimacy in the minds of, you know, I did North American state citizens.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I wish that we had more information, but we've really only got a couple more lines to go through on for this article, at least, but following the decision, protesters erupted into violence on the Washington DC Mall and in Mexico City's Chapultek Park. [SPEAKER_03]: uh... chant the crowds were chanting down with the zombie they were quickly suppressed as riot police cleared the capitals with micro waves and stunners totally shit micro waves [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I guess it's like an EMP type thing. [SPEAKER_03]: I doubt that they were, you know, carrying around a microwave and hitting the start button. [SPEAKER_02]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no. [SPEAKER_02]: I meant that they were using microwave radiation to clear the cat, but that's crazy.

[SPEAKER_02]: They could have also been using, oh, man, not later. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm thinking of, there's this new crowd control technology that actually exists in our own world, where it's essentially a giant sound cannon that shoots way, sound waves so jarring to the human ears and brain that people have no choice but to flee.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's honestly a terrifying invention, uh, and it should be against the Geneva conventions in my opinion, uh, especially using it on your own people. [SPEAKER_02]: But anyway, if history has taught us anything, it's that that riot police clamping down on political protests like this is not going to work.

[SPEAKER_03]: Nope, because already it states that more protests are reportedly planned for the weekend. [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yes. [SPEAKER_03]: We riot. [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. [SPEAKER_03]: We riot. [SPEAKER_02]: As three days grace, I think one said let's start a riot. [SPEAKER_03]: As a native portlandian, let's start a riot.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, hey, see animals right there, too. [UNKNOWN]: So [SPEAKER_02]: oversimplify the legal and ethical ramifications of a mass of political scandal. [SPEAKER_02]: Who could who could have foreseen this? [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, okay. [SPEAKER_03]: So maybe, you know, down with the zombie and not looking into all of the aspects of it and only following what they see on social media rather than doing the true proper research to figure out their own opinions on things.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I can see [SPEAKER_02]: To me, it sounds like this is a good case as to why there should be, if there isn't already, there should be in the UNAS, there should be a snap election procedure, where, because this is such an unusual circumstance, there should be a snap election where people are allowed [SPEAKER_02]: You know, do you want to keep President Huerta in office?

[SPEAKER_02]: Or would you rather, you know, go a different route? [SPEAKER_02]: Perhaps the other candidate is the next in line and succession, the fight's president. [SPEAKER_03]: really like that idea giving the people the opportunity to revote, you know, because obviously this was nine people making the decision and I doubt that they looked to the representatives of the states or the countries because now this is beyond just, you know, the North America, North America itself, but to all of it and figuring out if this is something that the people [SPEAKER_03]: because that's who the president is supposed to serve the people and we should have the right to vote on whether or not where to remain to the president for the last year.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And it's hard, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Because there is this element of democracy that can can go into my rule. [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, simplifying this scandal could be weaponized by political opposition, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Down with the zombie. [SPEAKER_02]: Very catchy phrase.

[SPEAKER_02]: dehumanizing at the best and perhaps inaccurate, depending on what the very depending on what the truth of the matter is. [SPEAKER_02]: Memory degradation, the degree of which that happened, I think is the really critical detail and the fact that the executive branch is being so opaque about it, [SPEAKER_02]: I understand why for operational security purposes, you would do that, however, I think legally speaking, the people of the UNAS have a right to know.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're paying where it's as paycheck. [SPEAKER_02]: They are... [SPEAKER_02]: allowing where to to represent them as the chief executive, they have a right to know. [SPEAKER_02]: And so if I were a lawyer, I would make that case and say, you know, maybe I would appeal it and say, despite, you know, you're ruling, I think you need to, the court needs to order a injunction.

[SPEAKER_02]: that basically states you know we need this although that would have been decided far far before any of this during discovery uh so it's it's bonkers to me that the court would actually go ahead without having that fact because from what I understand of court cases um [SPEAKER_02]: the whole process is so anal about the list of facts that the entire case proceeds upon because if you don't have all the facts then the ruling doesn't really matter.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, there's a really interesting case and the fact is that we're not even done talking about it yet, but we are done with this episode. [SPEAKER_02]: So stick around we're going to have a part two of this episode where we talk about all of the fallout [SPEAKER_02]: That comes from this landmark legal case about not just the president and whether or not the remainder of his term was legitimate, but redefining the legal definition of death entirely.

[SPEAKER_02]: Huge huge case. [SPEAKER_02]: So. [SPEAKER_02]: That's, that's all we got for this episode. [SPEAKER_02]: I was going to say this week, but Genesis, we're recording this and you know, as soon as we're done recording this one, we're recording another one. [SPEAKER_02]: On the second half, do you have anything that you'd like to shout out?

[SPEAKER_02]: Any, what games are you playing right now? [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe we can talk about that instead. [SPEAKER_03]: uh... i have been grinding it out in final fantasy ten uh... it is one of my all-time favorite games and i go back to it uh... quite often and uh... yet i've been playing cyberpunk again uh... running around as toast v and uh... yeah i think i'm ready to play some aspect again though it's been a while since i've heard cadence voice and i need it [SPEAKER_02]: I need to play the Phantom Liberty DLC.

[SPEAKER_03]: I still have a play to you, dude. [SPEAKER_02]: Still haven't played Cyberpunk since 2.0. [SPEAKER_02]: Came out. [SPEAKER_02]: I know. [SPEAKER_02]: I really need to, but right now, I am like, I am like, um, just so deep into Star Field. [SPEAKER_02]: Star Field had its big update recently, uh, with the free lanes update in the Terran feet, uh, Terran Armada, DLC that came out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, there's some new mods that I downloaded. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just having so much fun with Star Field. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I know a lot of people like to dunk on it. [SPEAKER_02]: I certainly have my own criticisms of it. [SPEAKER_02]: I haven't been quiet about those either. [SPEAKER_02]: However, I am having a lot of fun going back and playing it and playing in new game plus.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I have been all about that when I'm not playing magic together. [SPEAKER_02]: I've been telling you that we need to do all over discord or something and I've got my decks right here next to me actually And I just built a new one that I'm like psyched for so I can't wait to play the new one that I've built.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like a [SPEAKER_02]: five color super frenz deck very ambitions. [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, that's enough of the magic they gathering talk because you guys don't need to know how much of an earth I am. [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, that's all we got for today. [SPEAKER_02]: And you will also have the part two of this episode.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to upload them at the same time because I am going on vacation. [SPEAKER_02]: So my family and I are going to Kansas, I'm going to be going for like five days and we did have to skip last week. [SPEAKER_02]: So we wanted to double record this week for you guys. [SPEAKER_02]: And next week of course is the patron chat.

[SPEAKER_03]: So yes, lots of info. [SPEAKER_02]: So much, so much housekeeping stuff. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. [SPEAKER_02]: We've got part two. [SPEAKER_02]: Take care, Specters. [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for listening to the Mass Effect War Test. [SPEAKER_02]: Reach out to us on Blue Sky, Twitter, Discord, Patreon, or email us at Mass EffectLoreCast at gmail.com.

[SPEAKER_04]: Join us next week for more lore, same space, same time. [SPEAKER_04]: Or check out our live streams at twitch.tv slash Mass Effect WarCast.

242: Earth's Biggest Political Scandal

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