246: Garrus' Rebel Phase

0:12 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm Commander Shepherd, and this is my favorite lorecast on the Citadel. [SPEAKER_05]: Welcome to the Mass Effect lorecast. [SPEAKER_05]: I'm in seven the legend. [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm Genesis, join us. [SPEAKER_05]: As we explore along tides of light and through the shores of dust to see where this lore began.

0:32 [SPEAKER_06]: And consider where it may go. [SPEAKER_05]: Specters welcome back to a very anticipated episode of the Mass Effect Lord cast on your hosts in 7th of the legend and joining me as always is Genesis the particularly excited Genesis today. [SPEAKER_05]: I can't imagine why [SPEAKER_06]: Oh no, I couldn't imagine why, here I am fully decked out and rearranged my entire setup, so that way, all my, my little, my little space Samurai can be on display.

1:21 [SPEAKER_05]: That's right, yeah, we, we have taken a while getting to this episode, uh, 246 episodes to be exact. [SPEAKER_05]: But. [SPEAKER_05]: Outside of the one episode that a reaper to your patron asked us to do on garris. [SPEAKER_05]: This is the first time we're getting to talk about garris exclusively as a character.

1:43 [SPEAKER_05]: So it is time to talk about the lore behind our samurai chicken detective writer-di-boyfriend. [SPEAKER_05]: Um, we talked a bit a little bit about it last week because it was relative to executive Palin, but the whole reason why we run into Garus and Mass Effect 1, and I've learned actually that somehow people avoid running into Garus here, I don't know how, but anyway, uh, [SPEAKER_05]: The whole reason you run into him is because when you're on your way to talk to the council, you find a seasick agent arguing with his boss about whether or not to continue the investigation into Seren.

2:30 [SPEAKER_05]: And Garris is appointed as the lead investigator there. [SPEAKER_05]: uh... but it has to have been some time after oodina launched a formal complaint regarding seren and uh... his his uh... hostile activities on on even prime uh... but [SPEAKER_05]: That is quickly stone-walled because Seren is a specter, so it's hard for Garus to acquire any level of evidence here or there, and he keeps running into red tape that's protecting Seren as a specter, and because Garus hasn't produced any results to show the council, Palin [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and kind of rightfully so, there's only so much that a C-second agent can really do to investigate a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a,

3:39 [SPEAKER_05]: But I feel like it's actually thanks to Garus pushing the envelope here, that you can make an argument that there could be substantial accountability and legislative oversight kind of change in the future with how the Citadel and Citadel security works. [SPEAKER_06]: I think that it could, yes, knowing the ways that the different conversations can go and match the fact two, I don't think that Garrison's trying to affect any significant change.

4:12 [SPEAKER_06]: He may not. [SPEAKER_06]: It could be, it could be a catalyst. [SPEAKER_05]: That's going to think he gets so disillusioned with it all, right? [SPEAKER_05]: But he still believes in doing the right thing, even if he thinks that the rule of law doesn't apply to him. [SPEAKER_05]: And what I'm saying, though, is that garris could be unwittingly sparking a catalyst for change at CSIC.

4:40 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_06]: I agree with that, it could very, he very well could, because of the way that he's so persistent and the way that eventually they do figure, they do capture defeat, a seren in the end and prove that he was in the wrong. [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, garris is probably rocking the boat a little bit more than most people would in their job.

5:06 [SPEAKER_05]: And I have over and over again, I've wondered, is that just because he's got like semi-main character energy? [SPEAKER_05]: Is it another reason? [SPEAKER_05]: And ultimately, I feel like he's probably emboldened by the fact that his dad was a career. [SPEAKER_05]: See second best, Peter.

5:23 [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, and we see that in a couple of different locations. [SPEAKER_06]: We find out about that in his home world comics. [SPEAKER_06]: We find out about that in Andromeda. [SPEAKER_06]: When we get a message from him, they're definitely, there's a heavy influence on Gareth to have that mindset.

5:44 [SPEAKER_05]: And the name for Carrie and the holds a little bit of weight. [SPEAKER_06]: it does. [SPEAKER_05]: So, um, that could also be why he's feeling a little bit more, uh, authority to kind of push that even though he doesn't have that authority. [SPEAKER_05]: So, uh, Seren's files and activities are classified, and that means that Gyrus only really has one way to follow Seren's trail, and that's to leave.

6:12 [SPEAKER_05]: He has to leave C-Sec. [SPEAKER_05]: because it's not, it's not legal anymore to follow his trail. [SPEAKER_06]: Right, so this is where we start to see the Tori and Bad Boy start to appear because he quits his job to go explore space with Shepard and to hopefully catch the bad guy this time.

6:35 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's a hell of a reason to quit your job. [SPEAKER_05]: I, I, I, I, I, I like to think though that at least his resignation letter was probably cordial with Palam, even if he was upset, maybe I don't even know of Gary's officially quit or not, or if he just took a leave of absence.

6:57 [SPEAKER_05]: I think he, he actually did officially quit, and he tells us that on the Normandy, I think he says something along lines of I hate leaving. [SPEAKER_05]: Hmm, you're like, I hate leaving, C-Sek, but now the thought has come to mind that even if he did quit his job, it doesn't mean that he had to write a letter of resignation.

7:20 [SPEAKER_05]: He could've just like made an Irish goodbye. [SPEAKER_06]: Right, there's nothing saying that he did. [SPEAKER_06]: We don't know if that was a clean break or anything like that. [SPEAKER_06]: We do get a little bit of information about it in Mass Effect, too, but we have so much lore in Mass Effect, one with garrison to go over.

7:40 [SPEAKER_05]: We do, we do. [SPEAKER_05]: And so the ironic part here is that garruses, [SPEAKER_05]: own ideology of the ends justifying the means is what allows him to leave C-SAC to continue pursuing Seren, which it's because of his thought process there that he actually even ends up on the Normandy.

8:07 [SPEAKER_05]: But before that, of course. [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I'm sorry. [SPEAKER_05]: Go ahead. [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I was going to say, and that's a running theme for Garish throughout all of the games of the ends justifying the means and learning what that actually means is very clear and very plays into his story a lot.

8:25 [SPEAKER_05]: Garish, we'll talk about this probably in like the third episode on Garish, but Garish was ripe for the writers to try and make him into a villain. [SPEAKER_05]: I'm glad that they didn't. [SPEAKER_05]: but it easily could have gone that route because of that ideology. [SPEAKER_05]: Um, so even though Garus is told to stand down and even though he does technically leave C-SEC, he does chase one more lead on the Citadel.

8:54 [SPEAKER_05]: and this is before he's like officially our squad mate, right? [SPEAKER_05]: So he goes to the wards and he goes to Dr. Michelle's clinic. [SPEAKER_05]: This is probably the thing that forced him to leave C-SEC because I don't think he had officially left yet. [SPEAKER_05]: but doing this is kind of like a burning the bridge kind of moment.

9:17 [SPEAKER_05]: So he tracks this lead on Seren, possibly Seren, possibly not. [SPEAKER_05]: He doesn't know at that point. [SPEAKER_05]: And he goes to Dr. Chloe Michelle's clinic in the wards. [SPEAKER_05]: And when Shepherd shows up, Garros is hiding behind like a half wall. [SPEAKER_05]: and Dr. Michelle is being held hostage by some hired goons from Fist, the Night Club owner, from owner, of course, didn't.

9:45 [SPEAKER_05]: And so Garus is like, you know, kind of lying low, the thugs don't know that Garus is there yet, but then they get distracted when Shepherd shows up. [SPEAKER_05]: And let's take a listen to how Garus deals with this, right? [SPEAKER_04]: We've got this clip here in front of us I didn't tell anyone I swear that was smart duck Now if Garus comes around you stay smart keep your mouth shut or will [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to flip shit, there was an advertisement that came up after, after I had already brought up the video and it was waiting.

10:34 [SPEAKER_05]: So YouTube is getting smarter guys and we're going to have to just rip the audio ahead of time, fuck you YouTube and fuck you Google, I'll just say it out loud, we'll see of our YouTube video gets taken down for that anyway, here's the rest of the clip. [SPEAKER_01]: Perfect timing, Shepherd.

10:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Give me a clear shot at that bastard. [SPEAKER_03]: What were you thinking you could have hit the hostage? [SPEAKER_01]: There wasn't time to think I just reacted. [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't mean to talk to Michelle, are you hurt? [SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks to you, all of you.

11:10 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so what just happened there, right? [SPEAKER_05]: It might be a little bit difficult without the visual aid, but basically, Shepard shows up, thugs are distracted. [SPEAKER_05]: Garus uses that distraction and shoots one of the thugs in the head. [SPEAKER_05]: We're a Markable Marksman ship.

11:28 [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but definitely a risky maneuver and kind of shows just how much he gets blinders when he's pursuing a goal, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_05]: He like the positive way to look at it is that he's so focused that he doesn't think about collateral damage. [SPEAKER_05]: The negative way to look at it is perhaps he considered collateral damage and he ultimately deemed it insignificant.

12:00 [SPEAKER_06]: That almost sounds like a mission that we go on later with him talking about collateral damage and willing to take that risk. [SPEAKER_06]: Also as a garrison answer, don't say her name like that. [SPEAKER_06]: I don't like that garrison. [SPEAKER_05]: Dr. Chocolate's the actual doctor chocolates.

12:19 [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_06]: No, that was a little breathy. [SPEAKER_06]: Dr. Michelle, are you okay? [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, no. [SPEAKER_06]: Back off. [SPEAKER_05]: You think they had a fling before Shepherd met him? [SPEAKER_06]: Kind of seems like, mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_06]: No, only because there is confirms that he's never had a cross-species liaison before.

12:40 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, okay. [SPEAKER_05]: Or unless he's lying. [SPEAKER_06]: Eris wouldn't mind of me. [SPEAKER_06]: Sure. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: I believe you, anyway. [SPEAKER_05]: Let's talk about this. [SPEAKER_05]: Garris taking the shot and, as Shepherd points out there, could have hit the hostage, is Garris justified here because he nailed the shot.

13:04 [SPEAKER_05]: It was a hell of a shot, but man was that reckless. [SPEAKER_06]: very reckless and especially in those close quarters and not knowing the distractions that are going around and not knowing if Shepard is also going to be taking a shot, what if I had shot that dude in the arm right before then?

13:26 [SPEAKER_06]: His next shot going off at the same time could have easily taken out the person he was there to protect. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and the fact that, yeah, like you mentioned, Garus is not part of our squad at this point, so it's not like they briefed about tactics before walking in there and besides that, even if Shepard and his team did, it didn't look like they were prepared for that.

13:50 [SPEAKER_05]: and it does come as a surprise to the player um so yeah garris it it's it's it's kind of cliche you know garris is so very much the god damn it garris you're a loose cannon but you get results you know what I mean he's like yes he's allowed to be that loose cannon asshole because he does succeed [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and it's only because he succeeds that we deal with it.

14:19 [SPEAKER_06]: We put up with it. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: If I'm Dr. Michelle, I'm kind of like, wow, this guy. [SPEAKER_05]: He doesn't give a damn if I die. [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it's either that or she sees him as the protector, as the person that he's trying to be, as the one who saved her life.

14:43 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm talking. [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, maybe, maybe that's, yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, she clearly has a thing for girls, right? [SPEAKER_05]: But this is also where we eventually get the lead on Talley. [SPEAKER_05]: This is, so we've not met Talley yet and this is where we get the tip that Talley might know something about Seren.

15:04 [SPEAKER_05]: And so, Garris is functioning as this critical lore crossroads for so many different characters in Mass Effect 1, and I feel like this med clinic shootout is probably an underrated scene for how much it sets up in the lore. [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_06]: I've never, I've done it to where I've gotten Rex first and not garrison, gone through like Rex's whole thing, but I've never intentionally not gotten squadmates.

15:40 [SPEAKER_06]: You know, because VR's a requirement, Caden and Ashley are a requirement. [SPEAKER_06]: Technically, you don't need to get anybody else. [SPEAKER_06]: You can reject them from joining the Normandy. [SPEAKER_06]: So I've never personally played out how the storyline changes without getting Garrison this squad.

15:57 [SPEAKER_05]: Man, that would be weird. [SPEAKER_05]: I've never not recruited Garrison, I can't imagine doing so. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: That. [SPEAKER_05]: Nope. [SPEAKER_05]: I don't even want to try it. [SPEAKER_05]: I don't even want to experiment with it, because I love Garrison much.

16:11 [SPEAKER_05]: Um, so after this firefight, that's when Garrison officially severes his ties with [SPEAKER_05]: And I forget whether or not that's explicitly stated, I just remember that that is the case. [SPEAKER_05]: And he says that he realizes the rules are actually just protecting Seren, rather than the galaxy.

16:37 [SPEAKER_05]: And I would argue with Garros here that that is not a Seren thing, that is a specter thing. [SPEAKER_05]: and it doesn't mean that every csec agent is going to be as good or moral as you, garrison. [SPEAKER_06]: That is very, yeah, no, I totally get it. [SPEAKER_06]: And it's true, the rules are there protecting all specters, not just seren.

17:02 [SPEAKER_06]: It just feels like seren is the one being protected because I don't think that Gary has interacted with any other specters yet. [SPEAKER_06]: He's 27, you're a child. [SPEAKER_05]: Man, I forgot he was 27 at this point. [SPEAKER_06]: Gary says a baby. [SPEAKER_05]: the he's baby garbis at this point.

17:25 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh my gosh 27. [SPEAKER_06]: So technically he's somewhere between the age of 25 to 27. [SPEAKER_06]: He in Mass Effect 1. [SPEAKER_06]: His age was confirmed in a tweet. [SPEAKER_06]: It's not actually part of the lore. [SPEAKER_06]: I mean it's part of Canon lore now, but I believe it was Patrick Weeks who tweeted out that [SPEAKER_05]: that makes sense now his loose cannon kind of ideology considering his youth because he would certainly get a little bit more tempered as he aged and maybe that makes that makes me wonder maybe his dad was somewhat similar when his dad was younger maybe yeah [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

18:11 [SPEAKER_05]: So, all right. [SPEAKER_05]: So, just because he's leaving C-SAC doesn't necessarily mean that he would have to join up with Shepard, but, you know, obviously, if you recruit him, he joins in Normandy. [SPEAKER_05]: And the motivation is clear there. [SPEAKER_05]: Common enemy chased down Serena across the galaxy.

18:29 [SPEAKER_05]: Not a lot more to it than that, at least for why Garus joins, but he also gets to kind of tag along on a Spectre's team. [SPEAKER_05]: Right? [SPEAKER_05]: So he gets a little taste of what that, you know, ends justify the means ideology is like. [SPEAKER_06]: and what it's like to be a specter.

18:51 [SPEAKER_06]: He's learning from Shepherd how a real specter is going to be acting, whether that is in the Paragon route or the Renegade route, are we there to enforce the behavior that Garish believes all specters act as? [SPEAKER_06]: Or are we going to buck against that and go the more Paragon route?

19:12 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and doing so, you're gonna shape his character a lot, and we'll get into that in a little bit. [SPEAKER_05]: But he's also unbound. [SPEAKER_05]: He's unbounded by those sea-sec regulations that he hates so much and talks at length about. [SPEAKER_05]: And this is, in my opinion, a little bit similar to for our listeners, if you're a service member or your veteran, and you or someone you know left the service to go be a private military contractor.

19:47 [SPEAKER_05]: This is a little bit like that, because now they don't have to abide by the same red tape. [SPEAKER_06]: Yep, unrestricted, go, garris go. [SPEAKER_05]: Which can be a boon in the hands of the right people, but people are fallible, and garris is people. [SPEAKER_05]: So he can be recruited alongside Rex, right, or refused entirely, like you mentioned.

20:15 [SPEAKER_05]: But his determination hunt down Sarah is still there. [SPEAKER_05]: And I've seen people speculate in forums about it being a matter of his, you know, touring an honor. [SPEAKER_05]: I kind of feel like this is unique to Garus. [SPEAKER_05]: where it's more of like a, he is extremely stubborn, whereas his Turian upbringing might lead him to go with the flow a lot more in terms of authority.

20:41 [SPEAKER_05]: So I actually argue that he's a weird Turian because of this. [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, Garus is definitely a weird turian. [SPEAKER_06]: He is never the one who is by the books. [SPEAKER_06]: He wants to follow his own path. [SPEAKER_06]: He's out there doing his own thing all the frickin' time.

21:00 [SPEAKER_06]: And I would also say that it's his level of stubbornness, but also I think he does hold a sense of honor and duty in the fact that this was a case assigned to him. [SPEAKER_06]: He's got a track record that we see that he does not like loose ends with, uh, with Dr. Michelle was Seren and Dr. Salion, who we will get to a little bit later, Gareth doesn't like loose ends and Seren's one of them.

21:30 [SPEAKER_05]: That's a great way to put it in case. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he finishes what he starts. [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and I wonder how much of that comes from his, his father, who was this legendary investigator and maybe Garus feels like he's living in his father's shadow to some extent, and that he needs to overperform to justify just a mediocre career.

21:53 [SPEAKER_06]: We can definitely tap into the daddy dynamics when we talk about his homeworld comic and a little bit more because in that opening scene of it, it is you are not going to be done with this task until I say you're finished. [SPEAKER_06]: And if that's instilled in you early on, then you are not going to be done until you are finished.

22:15 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh my God, the calibrations make perfect sense. [SPEAKER_05]: That's why he's been calibrating the whole time. [SPEAKER_05]: It's not so big yet. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so I feel like, yeah, Garus is a little bit of a perfectionist, maybe. [SPEAKER_05]: What's interesting here is that I said that he's kind of a weird turian in that regard that he's willing to buck the trend and go against authority and yet he's a proud turian.

22:44 [SPEAKER_05]: right how many times does he mention uh uh like all the squad mates he's a little bit of a vehicle for the Turians lore uh for his races lore uh but how many times does he mention uh basically things that are from a conventional Turian point of view and he even gets into hot water with Rex about this right uh and Rex kind of puts him in his place with a comment about the [SPEAKER_05]: as not just a stain on the specters and a stain on the law, but a stain on their entire species.

23:20 [SPEAKER_06]: Right, because even though there are several Tory inspectors, we don't really get to meet many of them, but knowing that spectators, one of the highest levels that you can reach within Citadel. [SPEAKER_06]: I guess through the Citadel hierarchy, Gary's wanted to believe in Seren, and wanted to follow in his footsteps until he realized that no Seren's not actually a great guy.

23:50 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, never meet your heroes, right? [SPEAKER_05]: And I feel like, because Seren was such a... [SPEAKER_05]: at this point in probably in law enforcement circles, a well-known specter, which is somewhat rare, but Seren was known for being brutal. [SPEAKER_05]: And he was like, he had to have been among the upper echelons in tenure of the specters.

24:16 [SPEAKER_05]: But anyway, Geris also tells us that when he's on the Normandy, he, uh, [SPEAKER_05]: season very fondly because it's the Normandy is this symbol of cooperation between the humans and the Turians with the development of that stealth drive and it's also just a master class and warfare. [SPEAKER_06]: And I think that, you know, over the course of M.E.1, Gary starts to open up to the other races and starts to understand them more.

24:51 [SPEAKER_06]: You know, he becomes friends with Rex. [SPEAKER_06]: He has a lot of conversations with Tally and Lyra and with Shepherd and Ashark Hayden and kind of being that liaison of crossing the species and figuring out life outside of the Citadel. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he definitely goes through a big growth journey right and and at the beginning he makes a few I think a few like rather offensive remarks to other members like other species right like Rex tally and I think there's one other one, but.

25:28 [SPEAKER_05]: looking back on it. [SPEAKER_05]: I'm glad that they went that route, you know, with like, there's going to be friction when you're bringing together a disparate, you know, group of people who have little in common, right? [SPEAKER_05]: There's going to be friction. [SPEAKER_05]: Even though their diversity of experiences leads to them being a very well-rounded and resilient group, yeah, there's going to be some misunderstanding [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm glad that that by a word did not shy away from that.

25:59 [SPEAKER_05]: Like things are going to be a little rough. [SPEAKER_05]: And I feel like nowadays, sometimes games are a little bit too safe. [SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_05]: They're pulling the punches too much so that that friction, like they're they're trying to basically sterilize it so that they don't get me do any due due on social media, right?

26:21 [SPEAKER_05]: Racism exists, of course there's going to be alien speciesism, you know, right and that's the other thing like just because you're depicting something in a medium doesn't mean that you're endorsing it [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, your whole point could be that the fact that you are trying to bridge these gaps and making tally and garrison work together is going to bring them closer and they can learn about each other's cultures.

26:52 [SPEAKER_06]: That's how you combat it. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_05]: I don't want to sound like too much of a boomer right now, but like, [SPEAKER_05]: the conversations need to be had sometimes, and not everything is always going to be rainbows and sunshine. [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, that's good off my soapbox.

27:12 [SPEAKER_05]: So we've been bringing it up his dad. [SPEAKER_05]: Let's talk a little bit more about his dad. [SPEAKER_05]: So Garus was actually raised on Palaven. [SPEAKER_05]: And he, I think we learned that through an off-handed remark he makes about it being, he thought Palabino's hot, right? [SPEAKER_05]: Isn't that the first time that we learned that?

27:33 [SPEAKER_05]: Because of course we have his home-world comic, but that didn't come out until we're before Mass Effect 2. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, um, the one with all the lava in it. [SPEAKER_06]: Sarah, yeah, Sarah, yeah. [SPEAKER_06]: So I think so. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so so Garus grew up under that influence of his father, who is this legendary se second vastigator known for being super rigid and do it right or don't do it at all.

27:58 [SPEAKER_05]: And I got to be honest as a new father myself and also someone who is a little bit of Hardass at work about ethics. [SPEAKER_05]: I Feel like I might be that father. [SPEAKER_05]: I like I obviously don't have the legendary behind my name [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you do, and 7th of the legend.

28:22 [SPEAKER_05]: Haha, no, but you know what I meant, career wise, but I feel like I'm watching this as like almost a cautionary tale for fathers. [SPEAKER_06]: Hmm. [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, I could see that don't put all of your hopes, expectations, wants, and needs, and desires on your child and try to live through them by curiously.

28:43 [SPEAKER_06]: And just don't be too much of a heartess. [SPEAKER_05]: You know, the kids learning like not just don't be a hard ass, but like what's more important perhaps than teaching them right from wrong to the extent of rigidity is to teach them how to be flexible to adapt to situations. [SPEAKER_05]: me in that one.

29:11 [SPEAKER_06]: I know, I know you didn't, but no, I fully agree with you on that. [SPEAKER_06]: Teach, I would rather my child learn empathy from me, not rigidity, and, and so I think that that's kind of what you were going for. [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, that is exactly what I was saying. [SPEAKER_05]: You know, kids, kids are going to learn what you do, not what you say.

29:31 [SPEAKER_05]: And they're going to emulate that. [SPEAKER_05]: And in fact, I'm already seeing my son do that, you know, he's my wife pointed it out, we have a cat, her name's O'Chee. [SPEAKER_05]: And my wife said, did you notice that our son has been booping O'Chee on the nose? [SPEAKER_05]: I was like, I did not notice that, and so basically I do that every single time I see Ochi like first time she comes in the room or first time I go in the room when I see her, I go and I just spouper right on the nose, that's kind of like hello, and it's become somewhat of a call in card I guess, but my son has picked up on that and now he's doing it with her.

30:14 [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_06]: Hades pick up on everything, and if hard ass, black and white view point only is what you show them, that's how we get a garrison. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it doesn't know what to do with Grey. [SPEAKER_05]: Geras also reveals to us that he was once one of a thousand Turians selected for potential specter training.

30:39 [SPEAKER_05]: I've always found that to be one of the coolest little lore bits that we get about Geras's origins. [SPEAKER_05]: Because we don't get a lot, but we do get that. [SPEAKER_06]: The idea that he went into Spectre training, you know, obviously it wasn't selected for it, didn't get to progress in it.

30:58 [SPEAKER_06]: Kind of really fits into this persona that he has established, like, I could have been, but I wasn't chosen. [SPEAKER_06]: So now I have a path and I'm going to be the best in it. [SPEAKER_06]: Because I couldn't hit Spectre, [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he's got a chip on his shoulder. [SPEAKER_05]: For sure.

31:21 [SPEAKER_05]: You know, probably a good thing for Gareth and for the galaxy that he was not chosen as a specter. [SPEAKER_05]: Because if he was given that level of authority behind an ideology of the ends just to find the means anyway, how different would he turn up from Seren? [SPEAKER_06]: I think Seren is the garris that became the specter, you know?

31:46 [SPEAKER_06]: We don't know a whole lot about who Seren was as a kid growing up on Palovin, but you got to assume that a lot of Toreans led a very similar lifestyle. [SPEAKER_06]: Hard-ass parents that led to your required military service that then grew up to be came a cop. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and I wonder how much [SPEAKER_05]: Garus resins his father for that because his father is the one who stepped in and blocked his candidacy for the Spectre's in fact it's because of Garus's dad's own disdain for the Spectre's being above the rule of law that he did so and so Garus then growing up and becoming [SPEAKER_05]: always kind of wondering about what could have been.

32:39 [SPEAKER_05]: There's some serious internal conflict there. [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, and eventually we get to help girls mentally get through all of that, but not quite yet. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's right. [SPEAKER_05]: And so I mentioned the friction, um, they, uh, not everyone sees garris as positively as we do, right?

33:06 [SPEAKER_05]: Not everyone, um, likes or, uh, thinks that his, [SPEAKER_05]: his actions are justified. [SPEAKER_05]: You like, for example, Harkin' in Palin' both view garris as this like agitator who doesn't even respect the law, which is hilarious coming from Harkin' Ah, Harkin' I hate him so much, you know what, but that's my own personal thing.

33:35 [SPEAKER_06]: I just think that Harkin' is viewpoint on women is so misogynistic and so horrible. [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, he's a scumbag. [SPEAKER_05]: He's just the definition of a scumbagged and he's a low-life. [SPEAKER_05]: So I always let kind of garrows just neem in the balls and then go crazy with him what I'm going to expect to.

33:58 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't let him kill him because that's not justice. [SPEAKER_05]: Right, but Garros has some pent-up frustration. [SPEAKER_05]: That's a long time coming. [SPEAKER_05]: That need of the balls for Harkin'. [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, that scene goes perfectly with the song Sabotage from the Beastie Boys.

34:16 [SPEAKER_05]: By the way, you should, and next time you're playing through that scene, [SPEAKER_05]: where you track down a Harkin and Mass Effect 2, play A, Savutas, she'll think me later. [SPEAKER_05]: But Garus kind of sees himself as like this archangel, you could say. [SPEAKER_05]: Where he is the executor of the law.

34:41 [SPEAKER_05]: And sometimes the law needs to be bent to be executed. [SPEAKER_05]: Um, yeah, he's kind of like a, oh man, what's that oath called paladin like a kind of he's an oath of, uh, is it vengeance paladin? [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, that Fitzgerald's very well. [SPEAKER_05]: He's like an oath of vengeance paladin for my D&D nerds out there.

35:05 [SPEAKER_05]: He is so rigid, you know, right and wrong and righteousness and it's not like he's a bad person but he certainly has the archetype where he could be corrupted and become an extremely dangerous individual. [SPEAKER_06]: Yes. [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, for damn sure. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: And this leads to a number of debates, even with the commander, right, with Shepherd on the Normandy.

35:37 [SPEAKER_05]: Some of these you can have pretty early on. [SPEAKER_05]: I think like one of your first conversations with Garrison, [SPEAKER_05]: He pushes this idea that the end's just to find the means. [SPEAKER_05]: And he says, it doesn't matter how you do it, just get it done, right? [SPEAKER_05]: I'm paraphrasing, I think there.

35:53 [SPEAKER_05]: But here's another clip in which Shepherd and Garrison talking, and it kind of summarizes my point. [SPEAKER_05]: Here, take a listen to this. [SPEAKER_01]: Spectros make their own rules. [SPEAKER_01]: You're free to handle things your way. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's see, second, buried by rules.

36:07 [SPEAKER_01]: The damn bureaucrats are always on your back. [SPEAKER_02]: For the most part, the rules are there for a reason. [SPEAKER_01]: But sometimes it feels like the rules are only there to stop me from doing my work. [SPEAKER_01]: If I'm trying to take down a suspect, it shouldn't matter how I do it as long as I do it.

36:23 [SPEAKER_01]: But see sec once it done their way, protocol and procedure come first, that's why I left. [SPEAKER_02]: So you just quit because you didn't like the way they do things. [SPEAKER_01]: There's more to it than that. [SPEAKER_01]: It didn't start out bad, but as I rose in ranks, I got saddled with more and more red tape.

36:39 [SPEAKER_01]: See sec's handling of seren was typical. [SPEAKER_01]: I just couldn't take it anymore. [SPEAKER_01]: I hate leaving. [SPEAKER_02]: I hope you made the right choice. [SPEAKER_05]: So a couple of different things. [SPEAKER_05]: Number one, he says, as I rose through the ranks, I got saddled with more and more red tape.

36:56 [SPEAKER_05]: Well yeah, that's like one way to see it, Garras. [SPEAKER_05]: The other way to see it is that as you were given more and more authority and power, you also acquired more responsibility. [SPEAKER_06]: And you had to, you know, your subordinates, you would get them in trouble for going off the rails, going off the handle, and so therefore you were also getting that same thing applied to you.

37:25 [SPEAKER_05]: Harris. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and, and look, I get it. [SPEAKER_05]: You know, sometimes these, these, um, rules or policies or something at work and you, you see it as pointless and it's just kind of in the way, I get it. [SPEAKER_05]: I've been there before, and I see that it's annoying, but we're not talking about just any old job here.

37:44 [SPEAKER_05]: We're talking about law enforcement and the regulations surrounding law enforcement are almost always there for a reason. [SPEAKER_05]: and that reason being something happened in the past. [SPEAKER_05]: That spurred this policy. [SPEAKER_05]: So, um, for garris saying, you know, that, oh, well, I rose in the ranks, but things just got even worse.

38:06 [SPEAKER_05]: It's like, you know what, garris, I don't think you're gonna be happy unless you can be your own boss. [SPEAKER_06]: Or go to therapy. [SPEAKER_06]: Or go to therapy. [SPEAKER_06]: Both. [SPEAKER_06]: You know, both are a good option. [SPEAKER_06]: Therapy is very much needed. [SPEAKER_06]: And I think that that is why we see Gary's take as many turns as he does when it comes to Mass Effect, too.

38:26 [SPEAKER_05]: Yes. [SPEAKER_05]: Yes. [SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely. [SPEAKER_05]: You know, he also says there I hate leaving. [SPEAKER_05]: At the end. [SPEAKER_05]: He throws in that little comment. [SPEAKER_05]: I hate leaving. [SPEAKER_05]: And the way that he says it, it's like leaving you thinking like he's going to keep talking, but he stops himself.

38:45 [SPEAKER_05]: And I feel like he actually does feel guilty about leaving Csec. [SPEAKER_06]: I think so too, but I think that's because it's part of the stubbornness. [SPEAKER_06]: He hates leaving the fact that maybe he had open cases, or he hates the fact that he had to quit a job, you know, he bailed at something, and Gersh isn't handle failure very well.

39:10 [SPEAKER_05]: No, he's very much a deal with the conflict head on, kind of person, not avoid it. [SPEAKER_05]: probably felt like avoiding it, you know, and also he probably had his dad and memories of his dad and his head the whole time. [SPEAKER_05]: That said, when he was talking about, you know, there always seems to be something getting in the way, you know, if I need to get a hold of a suspect, it shouldn't matter how I do it.

39:46 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, Garus. [SPEAKER_05]: you know, you seem to be okay acting as jury judge and executioner, and I say that in addition to the home world, coming, what we know there, but Geras seems to have a very strong lack of empathy if he has deemed you to be the villain, if he has deemed you to be the bad guy, then you are not going to get any mercy from him.

40:14 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, uh, this is definitely falls right in line with his black and white thinking and not being able to see the intricacies of, I mean, quote, quote, human nature, uh, but once he's determined that you are on the wrong side of his viewpoint, it's very difficult to get him to change that viewpoint.

40:37 [SPEAKER_05]: And like not to get into too much theology right now, but this is [SPEAKER_05]: belief that's practiced and preached in Judeo-Christian circles, and I'm not sure maybe it is in Muslim circles as well, but about, you know, turning the other cheek, and I know that that's quoting Jesus at that point, but it's been around that idea for a long time about treating your enemies and loving your enemies, because it insulates you from becoming too extreme.

41:10 [SPEAKER_05]: and that I would love to hear because we know that at least we know that Ashley on board believes in a god and so I wish I could have heard some kind of ethical pseudo theological debate between Ashley and Garus here because Ashley is also very much a deal with your conflict head on kind of person.

41:33 [SPEAKER_06]: Oh yeah, Ashley and Garris definitely would have been friends if given the better opportunity to do so. [SPEAKER_06]: Or that or they would have made it each other and gotten on the wrong side of each other's guts and been absolutely antagonistic towards each other. [SPEAKER_06]: But I also think that I wish that we had more lore on theory in theology.

41:55 [SPEAKER_06]: We have a little bit about throughout theology. [SPEAKER_06]: We know a lot about human theology, but beyond that there's not a whole lot of religion in Mass Effect. [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know if I could even name any of the theory in God's. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: That's... We're gonna have to do like a series on the religion of Mass Effect.

42:16 [SPEAKER_05]: definitely. [SPEAKER_05]: I know that we did that episode before where we examined the claims that Shepard was like space Jesus anyway. [SPEAKER_05]: We're gonna have to do like a series of episodes examining the religious or spiritual inclinations of different races. [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, we mentioned how Shepard can kind of set the tone.

42:35 [SPEAKER_05]: I love how in that clip Shepard really challenges Garus and pushes back. [SPEAKER_05]: And says, so you left you quit because you didn't like it. [SPEAKER_05]: Eric, what does she say you quit because you didn't like the rules are being told about to do? [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: Because that coming from your commanding officer is kind of like, hey, man, I recognize a red flag when I see one.

43:00 [SPEAKER_06]: the red flags around the red tape. [SPEAKER_06]: Yes. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so, but it's interesting because even though Garus has a chip on his shoulder, he still learns from Shepard and looks to Shepard as a mentor. [SPEAKER_05]: And over the course of Mass Effect one debates like those, you change Garus's tactics and how he approaches different things.

43:24 [SPEAKER_05]: and he's watching as you deal with a bunch of high stress situations too so I mentioned some confrontations between Garrison the crew before so Garrison initially views Rex through this very stereotypical lens calling him a bloodthirsty thug at one point. [SPEAKER_05]: And yeah, Rex puts garrison in his place about the Genevieve.

43:54 [SPEAKER_05]: But that is a good example of world building. [SPEAKER_05]: How these two people do not see eye to eye on a major geopolitical event. [SPEAKER_06]: mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_06]: And it does it in such a good way because it's lore building and it's story building, but it's not just straight exposition.

44:16 [SPEAKER_06]: I hate your people because of what they did to me. [SPEAKER_06]: What do you mean? [SPEAKER_06]: What did we do to you where it can just get so boring? [SPEAKER_06]: To me, this actually felt like a real good conversation. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, EA, man, if anyone at EA is listening to this on the off-chance, they are like, don't skimp on writing.

44:40 [SPEAKER_05]: Writing is so critical, and that's what made these, that's part of what made these games so incredible. [SPEAKER_05]: So anyway, there are some, [SPEAKER_05]: There are some interesting comments from Ashley, I'll say, about Aliens being on board the Normandy. [SPEAKER_05]: And if you want to hear me talk at length about those, go and listen to the Ashley episode.

45:03 [SPEAKER_05]: And so, you know, on the benefit of the outside, you can say that she was suspicious, because she just didn't trust Aliens who didn't have the security clearance to be on such an advanced war vessel. [SPEAKER_05]: on, if you don't want to give her the benefit of the doubt, you can just say that she's as xenophobic, a-hole, who is only concerned because they are aliens and not because they are not in the military service with her.

45:30 [SPEAKER_05]: But unlike her, Gareth is actually eager to get away from this, it'll, and he wants to see how things are done in the, quote, real world, whereas I feel like Ashley enjoys [SPEAKER_06]: I totally agree, and I think that that has a lot to do with their upgrip upbringing. [SPEAKER_06]: Actually, you know, she was an army brat, she traveled, but she also had a homeworld base, and Garus went from his homeworld to the military service to C-SEC.

46:04 [SPEAKER_06]: And didn't really, you know, did he have his break year where he went and backpacked across Europe for a year? [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I don't think so. [SPEAKER_05]: No, I can see him doing that though, you know what's funny, it starts in Mass Effect 1, but this is where it starts, this is where Garrison's obsession with calibration starts, because he is spending his time in the vehicle or in the vehicle bay, calibrating the make-o.

46:32 [SPEAKER_06]: He does, he takes care of the make-o for us, and obviously, I mean, my make-o is okay, but it needs some more calibrations, so that I don't freaking flip it over all the damn times. [SPEAKER_06]: But that might be more my driving skills than anything. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, hey, Gareth, can I talk to you away from the other squadmates about some calibrations we need to work on?

46:57 [SPEAKER_05]: All right, well, that is it for the first half of the show. [SPEAKER_05]: We have some people that we want to shout out in the middle of the show. [SPEAKER_05]: And Genesis, I think you got a voice line for me, pop quiz. [SPEAKER_05]: All right, don't go anywhere. [SPEAKER_05]: We will be right back.

47:13 [SPEAKER_01]: We have beef, bacon, we have beer, the foods of my people. [SPEAKER_00]: Young men have funny ideas of what a star you're like. [SPEAKER_00]: I blame the extra net and computer games. [SPEAKER_04]: Rex, Shepherd, Grant, Shepherd, Rex, Grant. [SPEAKER_05]: Alright, this is the middle of the show, where we read out your five star reviews if you've left them.

47:39 [SPEAKER_05]: And this time it looks like there has been a new review dropped for us on Apple Podcasts, five stars from Nerd of Amnesia. [SPEAKER_05]: who also just left us comment on our patreon very kind comment but here's the review says five stars late to the game but this podcast is the best thing ever i don't know perugies are pretty great i love perugies and she stakes [SPEAKER_05]: and beer.

48:06 [SPEAKER_05]: So, I don't know if this podcast is the best thing ever, but thank you. [SPEAKER_05]: Nerd of Amnesia says I only found this podcast in 2026 while driving for work, but it has to be the best thing ever. [SPEAKER_05]: I can't wait to listen more each day and try to catch up. [SPEAKER_05]: I genuinely feel like I have a whole group of new friends who get what a great game Mass Effect is.

48:26 [SPEAKER_05]: I know this game like the back of my hand, but I never get tired of hearing more. [SPEAKER_05]: Seriously, I know this podcast may be over already, but I still feel all the same excitement and joy all expressed every week. [SPEAKER_05]: From one Mass Effect fan to another, thank you from the bottom of my heart.

48:40 [SPEAKER_05]: Well, unless I missed a memo from somebody very important, I don't think that this podcast is over. [SPEAKER_05]: And I don't plan on it being over for the foreseeable future, so good news. [SPEAKER_05]: Nerd of M. Neige, you'll have more in seven legend and more genesis and more mass spectacular.

49:00 [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe we should double check the Apple podcast feed and make sure that we're uh, pretty nice. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: That's a good point. [SPEAKER_05]: I haven't checked it in a little bit. [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, wait. [SPEAKER_05]: I just checked it. [SPEAKER_05]: It's good. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

49:12 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay. [SPEAKER_06]: Good. [SPEAKER_06]: We're solid. [SPEAKER_05]: It's, I was going to say, man, we got some big problems. [SPEAKER_05]: Big problems. [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_05]: If those are not handled. [SPEAKER_05]: But thank you for the review narrative amnesia. [SPEAKER_05]: We also read and try to keep up to date with our comments on our latest Spotify episodes.

49:32 [SPEAKER_05]: So if you have some comments you want to leave, there you go. [SPEAKER_05]: We'll read them in the following episode if we've got time. [SPEAKER_05]: But that being said, Genesis, you've got a voice line for me. [SPEAKER_05]: pop quiz. [SPEAKER_06]: I do. [SPEAKER_06]: I also just want to I will quickly two seconds shout out the fact that Mr. genocide decided to comment again on the most recent episodes and I responded to that.

49:56 [SPEAKER_05]: Do you really? [SPEAKER_05]: Okay. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's awesome. [SPEAKER_05]: All right. [SPEAKER_05]: So [SPEAKER_05]: that is a reference to the mid-break on last week's episode if you're confused about that go go back and listen to that uh but here is the here is the voice the pop quiz voice line that Genesis has given me it just says open the podcast excellent then we have everything we need to open the pod [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, wow, it looks like I have become angelic again.

50:30 [SPEAKER_05]: My camera has decided to go way over exposed. [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know why. [SPEAKER_05]: We're gonna try and fix that. [SPEAKER_05]: There we go. [SPEAKER_05]: Good, I guess, it's good for now. [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, let's listen to that sound clip one more time because I was distracted by my beaming face.

50:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Excellent. [SPEAKER_02]: Then we have everything we need to open the pod. [SPEAKER_05]: is that a reference to two thousand one of space Odyssey? [SPEAKER_05]: No, I don't know, maybe open the pod bay doors. [SPEAKER_06]: Hell, I know the Joker makes the reference. [SPEAKER_05]: And Joker makes space Odyssey reference.

51:11 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, just did it again, but Joker makes a space Odyssey reference where he says, well, something about an AI and it starts singing Miss Daisy. [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, I'm gonna try and fix this camera. [SPEAKER_05]: I can't I can't deal right now. [SPEAKER_05]: Why is it doing this and never does this?

51:32 [SPEAKER_06]: I swear. [SPEAKER_06]: Do weeks and a row. [SPEAKER_05]: I swear this never happens. [SPEAKER_05]: One out of three. [SPEAKER_05]: We do have a new patron to shout out. [SPEAKER_06]: Are you gonna guess the line or do? [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I'm sorry. [SPEAKER_05]: My son has four teeth coming in, so no one's getting sleep in this household.

51:54 [SPEAKER_05]: That's clearly Lyara. [SPEAKER_05]: And let's see, open the pod doors. [SPEAKER_05]: Is it Javik? [SPEAKER_05]: Is it during the Javik mission? [SPEAKER_05]: it. [SPEAKER_05]: It. [SPEAKER_05]: Nice. [SPEAKER_05]: Awesome. [SPEAKER_06]: Congratulations. [SPEAKER_06]: I found that sound clip and I used it on the girls when we were opening up the podcast episodes on Mass Effect.

52:16 [SPEAKER_06]: And it was just perfect. [SPEAKER_06]: I think we have everything we need to open the pod. [SPEAKER_06]: Let's get it started. [SPEAKER_06]: That's awesome. [SPEAKER_05]: Also, I don't know if my camera's on right now because it's showing me a black screen. [SPEAKER_05]: But I'm going to act like it is.

52:33 [SPEAKER_05]: Because that's [SPEAKER_06]: I can see. [SPEAKER_05]: You're good. [SPEAKER_05]: Okay. [SPEAKER_05]: All right. [SPEAKER_05]: Well, there's that. [SPEAKER_05]: Okay. [SPEAKER_05]: So we do have one new patron that we'd like to shout out. [SPEAKER_05]: And where is it? [SPEAKER_05]: Ah, there's the Brian in.

52:50 [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you for signing up on our Patreon. [SPEAKER_05]: And we also have our tier five patrons that we want to shout out. [SPEAKER_05]: That's William, Superfly 440, Retrobot, Lt. to see you know, Curacy, Edboy, and Day. [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you all so much for [SPEAKER_05]: immense support of this show.

53:08 [SPEAKER_05]: It really helps make it possible for Genesis and I to bring this to you every week um and even without that uh we uh I believe Genesis you sent in the chat here that Brian got a double shout out do we shout out Brian last week? [SPEAKER_05]: Did that we did? [SPEAKER_05]: Okay great. [SPEAKER_05]: I'm really on it.

53:28 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm on one today anyway with that let's get back to the rest of the show. [SPEAKER_03]: After time adrift among open stars, a long tides of light and through shows of dust, I will return to where I began. [SPEAKER_00]: Celery and reproduction different, very little sex-tried. [SPEAKER_00]: If intended to try human, would try you.

53:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Ow, my bakeries! [SPEAKER_05]: Alright, so in Mass Effect 1, we get these missions, they're not called loyalty missions, but we did essentially get loyalty missions back then. [SPEAKER_05]: I think they're called like personal assignments or something, and Jin, how did you like garruses?

54:06 [SPEAKER_06]: So I have a love hate relationship with it. [SPEAKER_06]: I love that we get to help Garish settle in old score and the little bit the lore that we get along with it, but I hate the premise of it. [SPEAKER_06]: I actually, in Caden, don't get loyalty missions because keeping them alive after virmile is what makes them loyal.

54:25 [SPEAKER_06]: and Rex is finding an armor that's not even marked properly on the map, so I end up usually finding it without him, and therefore missing his unique dialogue that goes late on with it. [SPEAKER_06]: And Lyra is so soon that rescuing her is pretty much all it takes and Tally's damn mission is so hidden and takes for freaking ever, but you do get unique Mass Effect 2 dialogue if you do it.

54:51 [SPEAKER_06]: But it's garrison, garrison is actually the most affected by his mission, both in Mass Effect 1 and 2. [SPEAKER_06]: And we will get to that all of that on a later date, but I didn't realize it. [SPEAKER_05]: I never realized until you brought that up. [SPEAKER_05]: Yara really doesn't have a personal assignment.

55:12 [SPEAKER_06]: No, other than because you can do matriarch benesia before you get Lyara. [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, you can do matriarch benesia? [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's really hot. [SPEAKER_06]: Didn't you see the scene with Seren? [SPEAKER_05]: God damn it, I missed that one. [SPEAKER_06]: See, you can take care of that mission before you go and recruit Lyara, so she doesn't have one.

55:35 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, man. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I love, I love doing that mission then going and picking up Lear and be like, hey, welcome aboard by the way, your mom's dead. [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah, after she's been hallucinating and thinks that your total ghost of her own memories? [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's fun.

55:51 [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and yeah, you're absolutely right. [SPEAKER_05]: That Armstrong Nebula, a quest for Tally, where you go to all the different planets and take out the Death Hideouts, good Lord. [SPEAKER_05]: That takes so long. [SPEAKER_05]: But I found out that you can actually blow up the gift dropships.

56:07 [SPEAKER_05]: And I don't know if that's a mod I'm playing or if that's vanilla, but yeah, you can blow them up. [SPEAKER_06]: It's vanilla because you definitely can but it's also playing it vanilla and get glitched out and then you can't complete her damn missions at all. [SPEAKER_06]: So that's fun.

56:20 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh man. [SPEAKER_06]: Not salty. [SPEAKER_06]: Not salty. [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, fun little game bugs, but I'm sorry. [SPEAKER_05]: I interrupted. [SPEAKER_06]: No, it's all good, you interrupted mainly because I don't really want to talk about the atrocities that I'm about to talk about, so that's what we have, because you and I have talked about the atrocities that have been brought on by the Selerians on several different occasion.

56:44 [SPEAKER_05]: Always something new with those motherfuckers, go on. [SPEAKER_06]: Yep, maillens genetic testing, the genophage in general, and then reengineering the genophage. [SPEAKER_06]: But it's not that often, do we mention how disturbing Dr. Salien aka Dr. Hart truly is. [SPEAKER_05]: Can we stop for a second and talk about Dr. Hart?

57:11 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, come on. [SPEAKER_05]: Like, I understand that it was supposed to be like kind of a funny like, you know, ha-ha, tongue-in-cheek joke from the writer to the player to us, right? [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but like, in universe, Dr. Sally and naming himself Dr. Hart is so dark. [SPEAKER_06]: Considering what he was doing by engineering and harvesting organs, yeah, it's pretty freaking dark, but it's spelled H-A-R-T, it's not H-E-A, you know, it's not like an actual heart, but still.

57:51 [SPEAKER_06]: it is so messed up. [SPEAKER_06]: We find out this information when Gary's is talking to us standing by that makeo and he tells us about a geneticist that he was tracking down during his cease-deck days, which baby boy, your cease-deck days were like two weeks ago. [SPEAKER_06]: You aren't a grizzled war vet talking about 30 years in the past.

58:14 [SPEAKER_06]: You aren't even 30 years old. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, in perspective that he's 27, it is really funny that he's talking about that, like that. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_06]: Back in my old C-Sectase, I was tracking down this salarian. [SPEAKER_06]: Your old C-Sectase were literally like four hours of gameplay.

58:38 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: So, what was Dr. [SPEAKER_05]: Sailing in doing? [SPEAKER_06]: He is a black market organ dealer who had been working out of the Citadel illegally and Garrison had been the one assigned to track him down. [SPEAKER_05]: Oh boy, yeah man, what a mission for Garrison to be put on.

59:02 [SPEAKER_06]: Hmm, on a little bit of a lighter note, this is where we first learn about the Crogan Quad and the price of organs on the black market. [SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, thank you. [SPEAKER_05]: That's 40,000 for a whole set. [SPEAKER_06]: 10,000 of peace. [SPEAKER_06]: Wait, what does that mean? [SPEAKER_05]: One, two, one, two, one.

59:23 [SPEAKER_06]: Wow. [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, we also unfortunately learn that people of all races or in species were being abducted and forced to grow additional organs in order to be removed and used as transplants. [SPEAKER_05]: That's like horrific. [SPEAKER_05]: The horrific is an understatement, this is perhaps one of the most horrifying things in the entire game.

59:53 [SPEAKER_06]: It is, because if I remember correctly, it was, we found one body with 27 additional screens. [SPEAKER_06]: It was something crazy. [SPEAKER_06]: And I was like, that's, that's beyond messed up. [SPEAKER_06]: Now, in real life, this can, in fact, be done to a certain extent. [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, don't Google growing a new nose unless you want to be kicked out for a while.

1:00:18 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think I know a certain wizard who must not be named who could benefit from that. [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, wow, I did not know that that can be the case in real life. [SPEAKER_05]: Also just so horrifying, like this is what I think Mass Effect One did very well. [SPEAKER_05]: It made space this cold, empty, horrifying thing that doesn't give a fuck about you and like there are these horrifying stories that happen right and it's not like out of malice, it's just out of total indifference, right?

1:00:58 [SPEAKER_05]: Like, um, sale doctor salient, clearly a horrible person, but he's doing it for money, right? [SPEAKER_05]: Like that's why he's doing it. [SPEAKER_05]: ultimately. [SPEAKER_05]: And it wasn't like this comically evil like to rule the world, wah-ha-ha, you know. [SPEAKER_05]: And then there are other things in Mass Effect one where it is like this almost like clinically sterile depiction of space where it's not that gravity wants to kill you, it's that it doesn't care if you live.

1:01:33 [SPEAKER_05]: And that was so hard sci-fi, and I loved that about Mass Effect 1. [SPEAKER_05]: And I feel like as we got more into the Action Hero genre that Mass Effect 2 and 3 became, we kind of lost some of that. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it also very much fits that this is a salarian doctor, because the salarians to me are definitely the type of, I can do it, therefore I should do it.

1:02:03 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, they would definitely be doing their own Jurassic Parks. [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, very much so. [SPEAKER_06]: Very much Jurassic Park. [SPEAKER_06]: So, we do find out that our boy did, in fact, find Dr. Salien and almost had him pinned down, but the slippy little slurry and snuck off on a ship with several hostages.

1:02:27 [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I'll say that five times fast. [SPEAKER_06]: I wrote it five times fast. [SPEAKER_06]: Now, Garrison's kept that file open on his desk ever since, haunting him like a weak old egg salad sandwich from a gas station vending machine. [SPEAKER_05]: How late did you stay up writing that one?

1:02:48 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, I learned that I really shouldn't script right after 11pm on a work night with a three glasses wine in me But you know what I had fun, but it's funny because you know that comes off as like film noir Which is exactly what I think garris is was was trying to go for with this story?

1:03:05 [SPEAKER_05]: Like It's the case. [SPEAKER_05]: I never close you know like this film noir detective [SPEAKER_05]: When it really comes off as just like a edge lord, like a young inexperienced edge lord who thinks he's above the law, but go on. [SPEAKER_06]: very much I felt and that's why it came out this way so okay uh the mission continues on and we get to where we have a critical choice.

1:03:30 [SPEAKER_06]: The conversation we're deciding Dr. Salyan's fate is another point that we can influence Gareth's morality scale towards the parrot on a renegade. [SPEAKER_06]: Now if we agree to outright kill Dr. Salyan, it's renegade. [SPEAKER_06]: Obviously if we say apprehend it's more [SPEAKER_06]: Either way, the dude ends up dead, but it's the lesson that Garus takes with him to kill out of self-justified means or to defend yourself while under attack.

1:04:05 [SPEAKER_05]: Correct me if I'm wrong. [SPEAKER_05]: I can't remember off the top of my head right now, but depending on how you do this, it's either shepherd who shoots him or Garus who shoots him, right? [SPEAKER_06]: So if you tell garris, go ahead, take the shot, garris just straight up, take the shot and kill some.

1:04:22 [SPEAKER_06]: If you say that you want to apprehend him, Dr. Salien runs off and hides behind one of the consoles and whoever gets their first is the one who kills him. [SPEAKER_06]: Normally it's shepherd because pathways don't always work out right and has to affect one. [SPEAKER_05]: So, I always felt like if Shepard is the one who has to kill him, that is how it should be because Shepard is the commander and I understand that Geras has this long history, but Shepard is the one who gets to sleep with that, and lay with that memory of doing that.

1:05:00 [SPEAKER_05]: The commander should be the one taking that responsibility on. [SPEAKER_06]: Right, and that's why it also, it affects garrison in this way of my commander said that it was okay to take this life of a person that I was originally supposed to apprehend. [SPEAKER_06]: Garrison's original mission was to capture apprehend and question Dr. Salien about his experimentation.

1:05:28 [SPEAKER_06]: Not go out and kill him. [SPEAKER_06]: because that's not what C-Sec does. [SPEAKER_06]: And so if Shepherd is the one going, okay, Gary's got commit murder free of any consequence, it has a major impact on him. [SPEAKER_06]: And this sense of morality is what we can instill into him and it carries over into the conversation we have after the mission.

1:05:54 [SPEAKER_06]: Because when we're finding out about Seren and what we are going to do with him, [SPEAKER_06]: we can either promote killing him on the spot or taking him in for justice because Shepherd still believes that we can take serenine for justice. [SPEAKER_06]: This of course happens before we know his full plan and how that's not going to work out but it's letting garrison know that we can't always think with our guns first.

1:06:20 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, he I think and and garrison that way kind of exemplifies the over zealous young professional, right? [SPEAKER_05]: Um, wants to be the hero. [SPEAKER_05]: Garrison wants to be the hero. [SPEAKER_05]: And I do like the fact that the a little bit more mature shepherd can really shape his career and act as the mentor that I always wanted right someone to show me how it's done and and and do things the right way do them ethically act with you know justice but also balance that with grace.

1:06:57 [SPEAKER_05]: Um, I also kind of feel like, and I've always felt this way, like, you know, promoting killing Sarah and verses, taking him in for justice, uh, I'm the only one I think who thinks, you know, taking him in for justice and him facing justice for his crimes, like killing him is letting him off easy.

1:07:19 [SPEAKER_05]: Like, if you're really angry with this guy, force him to live every single damn day, thinking about what he did, but helplessly so, because he's in jail. [SPEAKER_05]: And there's nothing he can do, but think about it. [SPEAKER_05]: So if you really want revenge on someone, don't, you know, like, if you're the victim of a crime, right, easy for me to say, I suppose.

1:07:39 [SPEAKER_05]: But, [SPEAKER_05]: I think, in my opinion, if my family or someone I knew was a victim of a crime, I think I would be so angry I'd want them to live with it, but I'd want them to live like a living hell. [SPEAKER_05]: I wouldn't want them to die because I don't know what comes in the afterlife, maybe, and even if there isn't afterlife, maybe they actually were secretly an amazing person.

1:08:04 [SPEAKER_05]: Who knows? [SPEAKER_05]: And they'd go to heaven. [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, but I want them to have to live with the consequences. [SPEAKER_06]: I'm with you on that. [SPEAKER_06]: I definitely agree that people should have to pay for the crimes that they commit and that no singular person should be judged during executioner.

1:08:23 [SPEAKER_06]: And that's why normally my guess is a kind of leaning towards the paragon by the end of Mass Effect one. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and mine too. [SPEAKER_05]: Because I always felt like, you know, Dr. Saline's really messed up. [SPEAKER_05]: Super messed up. [SPEAKER_05]: But, first of all, his case needs to be heard publicly, needs to come to light.

1:08:45 [SPEAKER_05]: The second of all, he's an unarmed civilian at that point. [SPEAKER_06]: No, he's not unarmed, he shoots at you. [SPEAKER_05]: No, but if you can just tell Gareth to shoot him. [SPEAKER_05]: Alright, that's before you know he has a gun. [SPEAKER_05]: So, and you're, at that time, in your perception, he's an unarmed civilian.

1:09:04 [SPEAKER_05]: So, teaching Gareth is okay to shoot an unarmed civilian if the civilian is a bad guy, is like, yeah, way to slippery of a slope. [SPEAKER_06]: There's also this slight moment of hesitation because he, Dr. Salien, Gary says the one confirming his identity and he goes, no, my name is Dr. Hart.

1:09:27 [SPEAKER_06]: I am not this person you're looking for. [SPEAKER_06]: And so therefore, Shepard can't confirm the Celarian's identity, he's only going based off of what Garrison's saying, and you told me at the beginning of the episode, what do you mean Garrison wouldn't like you? [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, he would.

1:09:43 [SPEAKER_06]: Who knows if Garrison's lying to me in this moment? [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so that is kind of a big hiccup if you do have in terms of law enforcement. [SPEAKER_05]: And you don't know if you have the right guy, and of course, you can rely on Garus' word. [SPEAKER_05]: Like, yeah, this is definitely him, but like, we need confirmation on that, right?

1:10:01 [SPEAKER_05]: And that's a good point. [SPEAKER_06]: Now, these two conversations both before and after Dr. Salien have the most impact on Garrison's morality scale. [SPEAKER_06]: Now, we see the outcome of our decisions in Mass Effect to very clearly and very blatantly, but you will just have to wait until next time to hear all about that.

1:10:26 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that'll be next week. [SPEAKER_05]: So we cover in Garrison, Mass Effect 2 next week, but I'm looking at our recording timer and we're already in now or in 16. [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, we're like 16 minutes over what we normally shoot for. [SPEAKER_05]: All right. [SPEAKER_05]: Well, Genesis, this has been really fun.

1:10:43 [SPEAKER_05]: That was just Mass Effect 1, Garrison. [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like we don't really get [SPEAKER_05]: like the beef, the meaty, hardiness of his character development until Mass Effect 2 and 3. [SPEAKER_05]: So, can't wait for that. [SPEAKER_05]: Those will be like four hour long episodes.

1:10:59 [SPEAKER_06]: That's like great. [SPEAKER_06]: I need like an hour alone to talk about amazing the romance aspect of his relationship is on top of how much calibrations get done. [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure. [SPEAKER_05]: When he got going on until next weekend, anything that you want to shut out? [SPEAKER_06]: uh... i've got my two other shows going on as always the two girls one chip podcast where we analyze rate and review all that the world of video game romances has to offer and it was this man himself mr. garrison carrying that brought vervada and i together to start that whole podcast uh... over five years ago now so feels like years since i just sat down in front of a mic [SPEAKER_06]: It's more like it's been years since I've got up out of this podcasting chair.

1:11:47 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, all right. [SPEAKER_05]: All right. [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I have not streamed in a hot second. [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know when that's going to change because my little boy is like ram bunchus and he's like a tornado and I'm chasing him everywhere. [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and when I'm not doing that, I'm doing everything else we need to like get this house up to speed.

1:12:07 [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, and also I've got, I've got a job in a Reno Marrow, hopefully that goes well. [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, we will see, uh, head one last week on Friday, and I think that one went pretty well. [SPEAKER_05]: That's what I got going on, my life, uh, could use your guys' positive vibes. [SPEAKER_05]: Hopefully, end this dry spell, look at that Garrett statue, man, I should have pulled the trigger on that one.

1:12:30 [SPEAKER_05]: I should have, that was a six statue. [SPEAKER_05]: All right, well, you all know how to find me, you know, my socials in 7th and the legend. [SPEAKER_05]: If you want to reach out, go for it. [SPEAKER_05]: Tell me that you are a listener of the show. [SPEAKER_05]: That way, I don't think that you're a random spam bot.

1:12:48 [SPEAKER_05]: And I think that's all I got. [SPEAKER_05]: That's all I got from this week. [SPEAKER_05]: We'll see you next time, Spectre's, take care. [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for listening to the Mass Effect War text. [SPEAKER_05]: Reach out to us on Blue Sky, Twitter, Discord, Patreon, or email us at Mass EffectLorecast at gmail.com.

1:13:19 [SPEAKER_06]: Join us next week for more lore, same space, same time. [SPEAKER_06]: Or check out our live streams at twitch.tv slash Mass Effect Warcast.