250: Garrus Dives In (to Shepard and the Collectors)

0:12 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm Commander Sheppard, and this is my favorite lorecast on the Citadel. [SPEAKER_05]: Welcome to the Mass Effect lorecast. [SPEAKER_05]: I'm in seven the legend and I'm Genesis. [SPEAKER_05]: Join us as we explore along tides of light and through sholes of dust to see where this lore began and consider where it may go.

0:52 [SPEAKER_05]: Specters welcome back to another episode of the Mass Effect Garrus cast. [SPEAKER_05]: I'm your host, Garrus the legend, and joining me as always is Ginna Garrus. [SPEAKER_06]: Jenna Garros. [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, we can roll with that for this week. [SPEAKER_06]: Like it generous, uh, Jenna Vicarion also works.

1:12 [SPEAKER_05]: There you go. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: And that's fitting because we're going to be talking about his romance. [SPEAKER_05]: So last week, we kind of briefly got into the romance aspect. [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but outside of romance, we've talked about, you know, garrison aspect one is, uh, kind of character development that comes from the revenge arc with Sedonus, and now we're almost at the Omega 4 relay, so we have to talk about the romance conclusion, right?

1:41 [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, they big romance culmination scene, but there's a little bit before that because we know that Morton has provided garrison with some reading material and [SPEAKER_06]: We know that both garris and shepherd want to make their cross-species liaison work. [SPEAKER_06]: They just both have to learn how.

2:07 [SPEAKER_06]: Now, neither garris nor shepherd has had sex with the other species. [SPEAKER_06]: In fact, it's probably still within that taboo realm. [SPEAKER_06]: It's been less than 30 years since the first contact war and there are still a lot of humans who don't like Turians and a lot of Turians who don't like humans.

2:28 [SPEAKER_05]: Right, sleeping in the bed of the enemy. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's probably not a good thing to do, but, you know, it's shepherd and garrison and in this situation, it shouldn't be on garrison alone to be doing all that research. [SPEAKER_06]: So, shepherd needs to learn about her man too.

2:47 [SPEAKER_06]: So, where do we go? [SPEAKER_06]: Morton. [SPEAKER_05]: The one and only Dr. Morton Solis. [SPEAKER_02]: Aware that mission is dangerous, different species react differently to stress. [SPEAKER_02]: Sexual activity normal stress release for humans and the two are still, recommend caution or an of chaving.

3:06 [SPEAKER_02]: You have a recommendation as a doctor? [SPEAKER_02]: Turing is based on dextral amino acids, human ingestion of tissue could provoke allergic reactions, and of electric shock possible, so don't ingest. [SPEAKER_02]: Also foraging advisable to your quarters, valuable diagrams, positions comfortable for both species, erogenous zone overviews.

3:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Can supply oils or ointments to reduce discomfort? [SPEAKER_02]: Gave ED electronic relationship A demonstration bids to use as necessary. [SPEAKER_02]: Wait a minute, Morgan, you just yankin' me around aren't you? [SPEAKER_02]: Shocking suggestion, Dr. patient confidentiality has secret trust, would never dream of mockery?

3:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Enjoy yourself while possible, Shepherd. [SPEAKER_02]: We'll be here, studying cell reproduction, much simpler, less alcohol and mood music required. [SPEAKER_05]: I love Morgan, would never dream of mockery? [SPEAKER_06]: that little pause before mockery just kills me. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, the delivery is amazing.

4:05 [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, the fact that Morton is, he's like being serious, but not serious, but he is serious. [SPEAKER_05]: Like, I wouldn't toy around with it. [SPEAKER_05]: I definitely would not ingest. [SPEAKER_06]: Right. [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, it's a legitimate medical question and we think more than for being a safe space for us to ask these type of questions because, you know, yeah, there is this little bit of comedic relief to it, but it is also very serious.

4:35 [SPEAKER_06]: Like, you, if you had questions about like sex or sexuality and you needed an actual honest medical opinion about it, you would go to your doctor. [SPEAKER_06]: you would go to a therapist, you would go to somebody who would who is knowledgeable in these situations. [SPEAKER_06]: And we have Morton.

4:53 [SPEAKER_06]: He's just not going to make it feel awkward and clinical about it. [SPEAKER_06]: He's going to be Morton in the situation. [SPEAKER_05]: And we know what I like about the writers throwing in this detail. [SPEAKER_05]: Is, you know, a lot of the sci-fi games and media, you can watch and consume.

5:12 [SPEAKER_05]: when it comes to human alien relationships, they just kind of go like, yeah, and then they bone. [SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_05]: And then it's like, they don't get into the nitty gritty of what that wouldn't tail with their species who is very biologically different from you.

5:29 [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, insanely duck biologically different. [SPEAKER_06]: And it all started with commander Kirk going off and banging his little green alien girlfriends, but they never get into the details on how those women might be different. [SPEAKER_06]: And who knows what type of space STDs that Kirk has acquired over the years?

5:52 [SPEAKER_06]: I doubt he went to go see the doctor about it. [SPEAKER_05]: all of them. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: In fact, you know, the whole dome and just thing, that makes it absolutely imperative that you tell your partner when you're going to finish. [SPEAKER_06]: Yes. [SPEAKER_06]: That's also a good point.

6:15 [SPEAKER_05]: You might feel me if you don't. [SPEAKER_06]: What? [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_06]: So that's why open communication is so important. [SPEAKER_06]: And Morton gives us the key and necessary information for that. [SPEAKER_06]: So thank you. [SPEAKER_05]: The inverse is probably true with a brochure and telling.

6:36 [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, that also as well, and I'm also wondering if it's the same for garrison to shepherd, you know, because you know, there's more than is only talking about telling shepherd don't ingest what about the the inverse on that as well. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: as much as I would love to continue thinking about the nitty-gritty of bodily fluids between a human and a turine.

7:08 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, we can move on from that. [SPEAKER_06]: Morton actually has advice for all of Shepherd's partners. [SPEAKER_06]: Perfemmships specifically with Jacob, it's to check for listening devices left in interesting places. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's a little bit awkward, but there are also manuals on how biotics can be used as enhancements in the bedroom.

7:37 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm intrigued. [SPEAKER_06]: Me too. [SPEAKER_06]: Wouldn't be frustrating. [SPEAKER_06]: Kate and I can definitely use those manuals, please forward them a long anyways. [SPEAKER_05]: Who needs a Vietnamese sex wing when you, when you got biotics? [SPEAKER_05]: And if you don't know what that is, you can't afford it.

7:58 [SPEAKER_06]: There's also, for Thane, it's warning of the hallucinogenic properties of Drell Skin. [SPEAKER_06]: Also, a species that you should not be ingesting. [SPEAKER_06]: Now, if you don't have a romance option, the sounder in our mid-break of, say, of more than saying if intended to try human would try you is from this portion of the game.

8:21 [SPEAKER_05]: Only time I ever got that was with neutral shepherd, Jerry. [SPEAKER_05]: because it would have been inherently impartial for me to romance anybody. [SPEAKER_05]: So I had to stay sell a bit. [SPEAKER_06]: Yep, that makes sense. [SPEAKER_06]: And so therefore Morton was just like, I don't want you either, Jerry.

8:42 [SPEAKER_06]: Sorry. [SPEAKER_05]: yeah that was that was rough uh so you know there goes my one shot with Morton um but alright tell me um i might regret asking this but tell me more about this um the big night with with garrison and shepherd [SPEAKER_06]: It is, it's time you are on your way to the Omega 4 relay, the stakes are high, the tension is at its peak, the videos and the research has been done, and it's finally the moment to test that reach and flexibility.

9:17 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh boy, don't want to pull a muscle, all right, well we've got a clip here. [SPEAKER_05]: And... [SPEAKER_05]: I am looking in our drive. [SPEAKER_05]: I actually don't see it just once. [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, there it is. [SPEAKER_05]: Yep. [SPEAKER_09]: All right. [SPEAKER_09]: Here we go.

9:35 [SPEAKER_09]: Hey, I brought mine. [SPEAKER_09]: Best I could afford on a vigilante salary. [SPEAKER_09]: If you were a touring, I'd be complimenting your waist for your French. [SPEAKER_09]: So, your power. [SPEAKER_09]: Here, looks good, and your waist is very soon. [SPEAKER_09]: Hopefully, that's not offensive and human culture.

10:06 [SPEAKER_09]: I knew I should have watched the fades. [SPEAKER_09]: Tell me, outline here, Shepherd. [SPEAKER_04]: Calm down, Gary. [SPEAKER_04]: They're worrying too much. [SPEAKER_04]: And talking too much. [SPEAKER_09]: I just... [SPEAKER_09]: I've seen so many things go wrong, Chippard. [SPEAKER_09]: I work at C-SEC, but happened with Sidonus.

10:31 [SPEAKER_09]: I want something to go right. [SPEAKER_09]: Just warns. [SPEAKER_05]: Just... What in the telenovela ship was that? [SPEAKER_05]: That was... That went from... [SPEAKER_05]: So... [SPEAKER_05]: So... [SPEAKER_05]: Uh... [SPEAKER_05]: Joking to so serious, right away. [SPEAKER_05]: Like zero to 100.

10:52 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's the garris relationship in Mass Effect, too. [SPEAKER_06]: Between garris and Shepard, there is so much vulnerability in the open communication between the two of them. [SPEAKER_06]: It's not about the fact like holy shit I need to have sex with you right now. [SPEAKER_06]: It's, I actually feel open and vulnerable and being able to communicate how I'm truly feeling [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, Gary said it earlier, I may be shy, I may be nervous, but I'm never awkward and uncomfortable around you, and it continues into their culmination scene.

11:39 [SPEAKER_05]: And, yeah, absolutely, like you mentioned earlier, open communication, being probably [SPEAKER_05]: What gets me to is Fimshep is like, she is, she is the one on the prowl here, and like that's also the case in a couple other Fimshep relationships, right? [SPEAKER_05]: Like she's the investigator.

12:09 [SPEAKER_06]: Femshab definitely is the instigator for a lot of these romances, especially with Jacob. [SPEAKER_06]: In Massive X2 with Jacob, she's definitely the instigator. [SPEAKER_06]: She's the one that pushes things very forward with saying it's a lot more mutual, where he is reserved and talking about his dead ex-wife.

12:34 [SPEAKER_06]: And so there's the connection there. [SPEAKER_06]: But then with garrison it's really a meeting and mass like a meeting of the minds through respect [SPEAKER_05]: And you know, the thought just came to me that that's probably, I mean, narratively that checks out, right? [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I don't think the writers were just like, yeah, we're going to make FIM ship the dominant one in this conversation dynamic, just because girl power, it's, there's an inherent power dynamic, right?

13:04 [SPEAKER_05]: Because garrison, although not a member of the Alliance, [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, there's definitely a little bit of a power imbalance because Shepard is the commander and in fact, in a lot of the relationships throughout all three games, if you are in a romance with a person, they will start switching the naming convention.

13:36 [SPEAKER_06]: They will be calling you commander throughout the beginning, but then there's a certain flip point where you either softlocked or hardlocked into the romance where they start calling you shepherd and only shepherd from that point on, but the other crewmates will still be calling you commander.

13:53 [SPEAKER_05]: That's a really interesting point. [SPEAKER_05]: I've never noticed that before, but now that you bring that up, that's absolutely true with Ashley. [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, skipper. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: She'll say skipper when you're like half way there to locking in the romance, and then she says she could have to that.

14:11 [SPEAKER_06]: So let's get into what this scene actually looks like, because there is so much that goes right with the communication, but my biggest issue is the fact that it fades to black [SPEAKER_06]: After Gary says that last line of just this once, they lean in close and touch four heads together.

14:40 [SPEAKER_06]: Now, canonically, Gary says close to seven feet tall and a femme ship is like five, five. [SPEAKER_06]: So what the hell is happening there? [SPEAKER_06]: She's not on stilts. [SPEAKER_06]: It doesn't make sense to me physically. [SPEAKER_06]: Look, I understand not wanting to show us what a Tori and looks like naked.

15:01 [SPEAKER_06]: I get that it might have been too racy to show what a true cross species liaison looks like. [SPEAKER_06]: I understand that, but seriously, couldn't have gone a step further, given us a kiss or a hug. [SPEAKER_06]: Can I please have a freaking hug from my boyfriend? [SPEAKER_06]: I would really appreciate that.

15:22 [SPEAKER_05]: They probably ran out of time and budget to animate that. [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like that's the god-honest truth of why that was, because I can't imagine, like, after having spoken with just the developers that we have, that they would be afraid of going there, like it didn't seem like they were too afraid of going there.

15:51 [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, the respect and trust, the devotion and loyalty that these two have for each other goes above and beyond any other fellowship relationship in Mass Effect 2 and three for that matter. [SPEAKER_06]: So why couldn't they have gone just a few steps further and give us garrison answers something more?

16:14 [SPEAKER_06]: Take his hand, sit on the couch, where dialogue wouldn't have hurt my feelings at all. [SPEAKER_06]: Can be a quick little make-out scene there where a chef or a garish leans over and we see shepherd falling back onto the couch and it fades to black there? [SPEAKER_06]: It's still sexy.

16:33 [SPEAKER_06]: Still this side of the line and way more than what we get right now. [SPEAKER_05]: You know what? [SPEAKER_05]: Fuck it. [SPEAKER_05]: Why don't they just, uh, why didn't they just reuse the Kelly, uh, lap dance animation. [SPEAKER_05]: So Garrett, you know what? [SPEAKER_05]: Shepherd the lap dance.

16:51 [SPEAKER_06]: I wouldn't even have minded it if it was shepherd giving the damn lap dance so that way it fit, you know, standard conventions. [SPEAKER_06]: I, like, anything. [SPEAKER_06]: Let show me that these two are physically in love as much as they are mentally and emotionally. [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to make you so uncomfortable with the question I'm about to ask you, but I know that you've thought about it, but you don't take that the wrong way.

17:16 [SPEAKER_05]: What do you reckon a turian penis looks like? [SPEAKER_06]: It is a question that I have been asked before. [SPEAKER_06]: It is a question that I have thought about before. [SPEAKER_06]: And there are two different ways that it can go in my mind, either it is standard, very looking very, you know, what you would assume from an upright walking creature, such as humans or other species that we have seen.

17:47 [SPEAKER_06]: or because they are based off of avian features and very dinosaur it could be very duck mallard oh no for those of us who are not familiar maybe you can explain a little bit more [SPEAKER_06]: You really want me to get into this biology, Sam, because I will. [SPEAKER_05]: No, no, we don't need to do that.

18:12 [SPEAKER_05]: This is not the penis guest. [SPEAKER_05]: So, so, all right, there could be a number of different complications, physically speaking, with how that scene goes. [SPEAKER_05]: But I feel like they probably abstained not out of purity or out of, you know, I feel like it was probably just a practical matter with the animating.

18:34 [SPEAKER_06]: I would agree, except for something that I will get to in a moment, um, it has to do with saying, because saying is also an alien, and he gets more than what then what Gareth does. [SPEAKER_05]: Sane is arguably more humanoid, though. [SPEAKER_06]: True, but still. [SPEAKER_06]: like I absolutely love this romance and I love this scene.

19:01 [SPEAKER_06]: I just wish for me personally there was a little bit more physicality to it, to it. [SPEAKER_06]: It's because of the level of trust that they have in this scene. [SPEAKER_06]: Because Shepard goes through all the motions, she lets him know that he doesn't need to be trying so hard and to turn off the music.

19:21 [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, why Garus, did you pick the music from the shrippers at Corus Den? [SPEAKER_06]: Like, that's not what's going to be happening here. [SPEAKER_06]: That's not how it goes. [SPEAKER_06]: I will say it was a nice touch that we finally got him out of the armor and into his civilian clothes.

19:42 [SPEAKER_06]: we know that Garus feels nervous. [SPEAKER_06]: And in my opinion, it seems like Shepherd is the much more experienced partner in this realm. [SPEAKER_06]: So I just think that there should have been more because Jacob gets a lot more in his romance scene. [SPEAKER_06]: And Femm Shep says one of the sexiest lines in any video game, [SPEAKER_06]: ever during the Thane romance.

20:11 [SPEAKER_06]: And that's saying a lot coming from me. [SPEAKER_05]: Wait, what's the line? [SPEAKER_06]: Hmm. [SPEAKER_06]: Be alive with me tonight, Thane. [SPEAKER_06]: And it's just her delivery. [SPEAKER_06]: And the way that she says it and what her hands are doing obviously below camera, it's dexious fuck.

20:34 [SPEAKER_06]: Like there's no other way around it. [SPEAKER_06]: They also gets to see in bed with shepherd. [SPEAKER_06]: Like, they take her down to the bed and like, why? [SPEAKER_05]: They didn't know anything from the very get-go to be the bad boy romance option though. [SPEAKER_05]: So it doesn't surprise me that they put more effort into things romance scene.

20:57 [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, it seems like they kind of short-changed garrison answers a little bit. [SPEAKER_06]: and don't get me started on the imbalance of brochips, physical interactions with his partners, because that's a whole another rant for a whole another podcast. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

21:17 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_06]: Miranda against a wall, anyone? [SPEAKER_06]: Let's go. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: So that's the extent of it in Mass Effect, too. [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, there are those cute little interruptions that you can do post-collectors missions that are the exact same for everyone.

21:37 [SPEAKER_06]: Vempshett, Fempshett will sit on the male's laps or they cuddle, curled up on the bed together, fully closed and on top of the sheets and garrisons back in his armor and it's freaking ridiculous and I hate it. [SPEAKER_06]: but the animations are all the same and there's no dialogue. [SPEAKER_06]: And Bro Shep gets them as well with all of his options where the ladies get to sit up and curl up on him.

21:59 [SPEAKER_06]: It's cute, but it gets boring after a few seconds. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, it gets boring really quickly. [SPEAKER_05]: In fact, those interactions, I didn't realize we're not the extent of Kelly's relationship. [SPEAKER_05]: that you can have with her. [SPEAKER_05]: So it was like this year or last year, the first time I ever learned that you can get a lap dance from Kelly.

22:22 [SPEAKER_06]: It's a wall dance. [SPEAKER_06]: She actually doesn't go sit on your lap or anything. [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, fair. [SPEAKER_06]: But yeah, so speaking of the collectors and the big mission that we're about to go on, there is a part of the quest with Garrison that we haven't talked about yet.

22:42 [SPEAKER_06]: The big suicide mission. [SPEAKER_06]: A lot can go wrong and a lot can go right. [SPEAKER_06]: Garrison can die multiple different ways. [SPEAKER_06]: be your writer die, don't leave by my side, or he can get redemption from his previous mistakes by being entrusted with leaning a team of his own.

23:03 [SPEAKER_05]: Alright, and we'll get into all of that after the break. [SPEAKER_05]: So here we go. [SPEAKER_10]: We have beef, bacon, we have beer, the foods of my people. [SPEAKER_00]: Young men have funny ideas of what a story are like. [SPEAKER_00]: I blame the extra net and computer games. [SPEAKER_07]: Rex?

23:21 [SPEAKER_07]: Shepherd? [SPEAKER_07]: Grant? [SPEAKER_07]: Shepherd? [SPEAKER_07]: Rex? [SPEAKER_05]: All right, here we are in the middle of the show. [SPEAKER_05]: This is the part where we would read out your five-star reviews. [SPEAKER_05]: We don't have any new ones from Apple Podcasts. [SPEAKER_05]: And last I checked a couple of hours ago, no new ones on the most recent Spotify episode.

23:40 [SPEAKER_05]: But if you want your words read on the show, that's how you do it. [SPEAKER_05]: However, the website that we used to compile the reviews or refonic has apparently left to review for each of us. [SPEAKER_05]: So under under in seven the legend, it says, host of the Mass Effect Lourkast known for deep lore knowledge and engaging chemistry with co-hosts.

24:07 [SPEAKER_05]: We're engaging all right. [SPEAKER_06]: Yep. [SPEAKER_06]: For me, it says a co-host with a strong grasp of lore specifics and fans perspectives contributes to world building and discussion flow. [SPEAKER_05]: You were old-build for the Lord cast. [SPEAKER_05]: The Lord of the Lord cast.

24:27 [SPEAKER_05]: You were old-build for us. [SPEAKER_06]: Okay. [SPEAKER_06]: All right. [SPEAKER_06]: Yes. [SPEAKER_06]: I create the world around the Lord cast. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: You make the Lord cast a believable entity. [SPEAKER_05]: If anyone didn't know we don't actually exist. [SPEAKER_06]: By bringing in the fan perspective, I am the fan.

24:46 [SPEAKER_05]: exactly, there we go. [SPEAKER_05]: And I do have two voice lines for you as promised from last week. [SPEAKER_05]: Let's go ahead and play the first one. [SPEAKER_05]: And this one I've given to Genesis with the file name. [SPEAKER_05]: I know I need you. [SPEAKER_05]: I know I need you.

25:06 [SPEAKER_05]: So let's go ahead and listen to this a couple times. [SPEAKER_04]: You know what Jacob, I think we need each other. [SPEAKER_04]: I know I need you. [SPEAKER_06]: Did you just totally decide to cheat and choose a romance dialogue? [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that's right. [SPEAKER_05]: We were not allowed to choose this.

25:25 [SPEAKER_05]: I totally forgot about the rules of our own game. [SPEAKER_05]: Yes. [SPEAKER_05]: But I knew that you'd know that one. [SPEAKER_06]: Yes. [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, but hold on. [SPEAKER_06]: Let me listen to it one more time. [SPEAKER_06]: You know what, Jacob? [SPEAKER_06]: I think we need each other.

25:42 [SPEAKER_06]: I know I need you. [SPEAKER_06]: Now I'm debating on whether or not that's Mass Effect 2 or 3 because Shepard is quite predatory in three towards Jacob if you romance him into. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's what I was going to talk about earlier with Fimshep being the instigator, you know, especially with Jacob.

26:04 [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, which one, Mass Effect 2 or 3? [SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to go to. [SPEAKER_05]: You are correct, Mass Effect 2, Jacob Romance. [SPEAKER_05]: All right, now we've got another one here, which I've titled synthetic SOB. [SPEAKER_05]: Let's go ahead and give it a listen. [SPEAKER_05]: Eat this, your synthetic son of a bitch!

26:25 [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, that's Cal Rieger, massive. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: The unmistakable voice of Cal Rieger, yeah. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah, no, I got that one. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's one of his combat lines. [SPEAKER_05]: I love it. [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, obviously on Haystrom, but yeah, I was like, oh, man, that's such an amazing, like, throwaway combat line.

26:46 [SPEAKER_06]: Hmm. [SPEAKER_06]: It's a good one though. [SPEAKER_06]: I like it. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_06]: I like it a lot. [SPEAKER_05]: All right. [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I'm glad that you got both of them. [SPEAKER_05]: No curve balls this week and we don't have any new patrons to shout out this week, but we do like to shout out our tier five patrons every week.

27:01 [SPEAKER_05]: And that's William Superfly 440 Retrobot. [SPEAKER_05]: Let's in it to Sino, Kira C, Edboy, and Dave. [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you all so much for continuing to support this show and to support by proxy both me and Genesis. [SPEAKER_05]: If you are listening to this, and you like the show, and you would like to support it in some way, and you're able and willing, you can go to patreon.com slash Mass Effect Lorkast.

27:26 [SPEAKER_05]: All right, let's get back to the rest of the show. [SPEAKER_01]: After time adrift among open stars, alongside the light and through shows of dust, I will return to where I began. [SPEAKER_02]: Celery and reproduction different, very little sex drive. [SPEAKER_02]: If intended to try human, would try you.

27:42 [SPEAKER_02]: out my bakeries. [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, we're back. [SPEAKER_05]: And we have to talk about some of the many ways the garris can die in the suicide mission in Mass Effect 2. [SPEAKER_05]: So number one drum roll may surprise absolutely nobody, but you should not send seven foot tall garris into the tight [SPEAKER_05]: He dies, even if you make it to all of the valves in time, he still dies because he gets shot trying to close the doors.

28:22 [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_05]: So, yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: Garus, not a good choice. [SPEAKER_05]: Not a good choice for the Vince. [SPEAKER_05]: Um, he's a soldier. [SPEAKER_05]: He's a sniper. [SPEAKER_05]: He's not a dedicated hacker or a text of on either, although he has text skills. [SPEAKER_05]: He's that's not narratively like who he is.

28:41 [SPEAKER_05]: So he knows how to calibrate weapon systems and bypass some basic security features, but you're asking him to go into like a completely unknown species vessel. [SPEAKER_05]: and navigate through there. [SPEAKER_05]: And meanwhile, being in a high pressure claustrophobic hot house. [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, probably one of the worst decisions that you can make because otherwise, garris is actually not that easy to kill in the suicide mission.

29:14 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I had only known about his vent death. [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't know about the other possible outcomes. [SPEAKER_06]: Only because of how I play. [SPEAKER_06]: Who do you normally send? [SPEAKER_06]: I normally send Legion. [SPEAKER_05]: Always Legion. [SPEAKER_05]: Because I think about it like physiologically.

29:34 [SPEAKER_05]: Legion's components are a lot more heat resistant than anyone else. [SPEAKER_05]: And I think other than Legion, I've sent Kassumi, like she's an infiltration specialist. [SPEAKER_05]: She can get around the galaxy's most complicated locks. [SPEAKER_06]: OK. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that I have only sent Legion.

29:57 [SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, I've never, I've never sent Garish, and I never, ever will. [SPEAKER_06]: It's just not what he's designed to do. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: That's not him. [SPEAKER_05]: Um, now you brought it to my attention before we went live today on the show that if you send Garus, he has some pretty horrific lines that you can hear while he's burning up in the vents.

30:21 [SPEAKER_05]: Um, let's go ahead and play a couple of those. [SPEAKER_05]: Um, there's two different ones that I want to play. [SPEAKER_05]: Here's the first one. [SPEAKER_08]: It's too hard. [SPEAKER_08]: I'm burning up. [SPEAKER_08]: Hurry, open the valve. [SPEAKER_05]: That's actually really concerning because I've never heard Brandon Keener that concerned like in his voice delivering his garris Let's all know let's listen that one more time.

30:46 [SPEAKER_08]: It's too hard. [SPEAKER_08]: I'm burning up hurry open the valve That's a bit concerning. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, because you can hear the panic in his voice I don't like this at all. [SPEAKER_05]: Here's the second one [SPEAKER_08]: Feels like I'm on fire. [SPEAKER_08]: You've got to find that valve shepherd.

31:06 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, Garris is literally being cooked. [SPEAKER_05]: What did anyone like, Terri and Thermador? [SPEAKER_05]: Lobster, Torador. [SPEAKER_05]: There you go. [SPEAKER_06]: When I said I wanted things to get more hot and steamy with Garris, this is not what I meant. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, right.

31:24 [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, if you do this because you like that, then you're a monster. [SPEAKER_05]: You're a monster even more than the collectors are. [SPEAKER_05]: So that's the first way that he can die. [SPEAKER_05]: Actually, you know what, I stand corrected. [SPEAKER_05]: The first way is if you don't upgrade the ship all the way and other people have already died, that's like kind of a prerequisite, I think.

31:49 [SPEAKER_05]: So, Garris can get blasted when he's either in the weapon bay or when he's in the engineering bay. [SPEAKER_05]: and he can die that way, but it's a lot less ceremonious if you want to call that. [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so the second big decision you have that can work well for Gary, so I'd say.

32:13 [SPEAKER_05]: is choosing the fire team leader of the other team for the first or second infiltration. [SPEAKER_05]: Now, if he's loyal, then Gary survives, and of course he successfully keeps the team alive. [SPEAKER_05]: And if you chose him in the first round, then he also ensures that the text specialist that you sent into the events survives.

32:36 [SPEAKER_05]: So that's cool. [SPEAKER_05]: I like that little addition as well, keeping him in both rounds. [SPEAKER_05]: There's anyway. [SPEAKER_05]: There's some benefit there. [SPEAKER_05]: But this is all of these loyal. [SPEAKER_05]: If he's not loyal, if for some reason, you just didn't do this Adonus mission, Garris does survive that first round, but he causes the tech specialist to die.

32:57 [SPEAKER_05]: So if you were ever going through that part of the mission and you were [SPEAKER_05]: And they died anyway, it could be because you had a not loyal gears, which hard to believe anyone would have a not loyal gears. [SPEAKER_06]: Agreed, I've never, I don't think I've ever not gotten somebody's loyalty by the end of the game, and I've never not upgraded the ship all the way, so a lot of these I've never experienced with in my own gameplay.

33:28 [SPEAKER_05]: I have experienced this one. [SPEAKER_05]: So basically, if he's not loyal, Gareth can take a bullet to the chest while he's trying to get the doors to close. [SPEAKER_05]: And I think I experienced that because of neutral shepherd. [SPEAKER_05]: And that might have been the only save skill I made.

33:49 [SPEAKER_05]: I can't remember, you know, all the playthroughs start to blur together. [SPEAKER_05]: Now, I say that this fire team decision is the most important for Garus, because narratively speaking, it just makes sense. [SPEAKER_05]: you know, like he was leading this highly effective coordinated vigilante squad archangel against three of the galaxies largest murk gangs at the same time.

34:19 [SPEAKER_05]: And they were succeeding for, I don't even know how long it was now like weeks, months. [SPEAKER_05]: And it was all going great and because of [SPEAKER_05]: So I think that that's where he really shines as a fire team leader and kind of looking out for others. [SPEAKER_05]: He has this tactical brilliance.

34:47 [SPEAKER_05]: He of course was able to hold off those murk gangs over the bridge for long enough for a shepherd to get there. [SPEAKER_05]: And he commands respect. [SPEAKER_05]: So I think putting him in this situation is like a natural fit. [SPEAKER_06]: I agree with you on that one and like even some of the people who don't have the highest respect for others, I specifically remember Jack having a line that he that she would rather follow Garis than Miranda even after you've resolved the dispute between Miranda and Jack.

35:21 [SPEAKER_06]: Jack still trusts Garis as a leader more than Miranda. [SPEAKER_06]: No, he can, if you are romancing multiple people, especially if you're romancing all three, Garus Jacob and St. before you finally get to your lock-in, he has some harsh words to say about other people. [SPEAKER_06]: But they all do.

35:48 [SPEAKER_06]: Jacob calls Garus a damn cuddlefish, which is a such a hilarious [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: Well, how can you when you're hold up doing calibrations? [SPEAKER_05]: Hold on, right? [SPEAKER_05]: Um, so if he's not loyal, though, I feel like there is a pretty good narrative explanation for why he dies, uh, or can get people killed, rather, not not that he dies, but why can get people killed when he's leading the fire team?

36:25 [SPEAKER_05]: because if he's not loyal, then garris never really healed and developed after what happened on Omega, right? [SPEAKER_05]: He's still in his self-doubting, vengeful, archangel headspace. [SPEAKER_05]: And he repeats the exact same mistakes that he made on Omega, focusing too much on the fight, maybe losing the situational awareness, getting his people or himself killed.

36:51 [SPEAKER_05]: But if he's loyal, then he learned from Shepard how to be a true leader, and he made adjustments there. [SPEAKER_06]: Yep, because Shepard is the morality scale for Gareth and Shepard can help shape and mold and allow him to grow and learn from his previous mistakes. [SPEAKER_06]: So, a loyal Gareth is definitely the best version of Gareth.

37:13 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I remember the first time I was playing through Mass Effect 2, I was like, how is he not loyal already? [SPEAKER_05]: After like everything we've been through, are you serious? [SPEAKER_05]: This guy isn't loyal yet? [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I guess maybe loyalty mission for Garus isn't the right word, but it's helped me tie up this last loose end.

37:34 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, help me get this off my mind. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, because otherwise it would be bothering him. [SPEAKER_05]: And of course, you can also choose Garrison to escort the Normandy crew. [SPEAKER_05]: uh... and i think that's always a good decision because he's a natural protector uh... but i feel like there's an argument to be made that even though he's a good leader it's not really the best allocation of resources uh... so if he's loyal than gara survives and he successfully brings the crew back to the normandy if he's not loyal the crew still survives but gara sties defending them which is like a heroic death [SPEAKER_06]: I think if I had to pick a death for Garrish, it would be this one, and especially, you know, knowing that the crew survives it, and Garrish is the one protecting and making sure that everybody else is safe, it would be the death that he would choose for himself.

38:39 [SPEAKER_05]: So. [SPEAKER_05]: I agree. [SPEAKER_05]: Um, like I said, he's a protector at heart, and he is an amazing tactician. [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, he has the lethal combat prowess to easily shield the traumatized group from a few collector stragglers. [SPEAKER_05]: But from that tactical standpoint, using this guy who is so valuable on the front lines to escort civilians is kind of an inefficient use of force.

39:05 [SPEAKER_05]: When you can do the same thing with someone like Morton or Kasumi who don't need to be a tank and can handle it just well. [SPEAKER_05]: So I always send [SPEAKER_06]: Yep, I definitely send Martin as well. [SPEAKER_05]: My justification narrative leap for that was, well, yeah, Morton's not like beefy, however, he's a doctor.

39:33 [SPEAKER_05]: And if anyone needs aid like on the way back or at the ship while you're waiting, then he will be there. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: And they just fell. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, definitely. [SPEAKER_06]: And I think that was kind of along the same lines that I was thinking to. [SPEAKER_06]: There was a little bit of the of the gameplay aspect of it where I'm sending somebody who's capable, but also isn't going to be in my final party.

39:59 [SPEAKER_06]: Somebody who's going to, uh, [SPEAKER_06]: to be able to protect, but I'm not losing a whole lot of DPS by sending them away for me. [SPEAKER_06]: And so I would send Morton. [SPEAKER_06]: Funnily enough, a majority of the playthroughs that I did originally, I didn't have Kassumi, so she's not always in the front line of who I would make choices to bring or to leave behind, because I didn't have all of the DLC when I first started playing Mass Effect.

40:30 [SPEAKER_05]: It's interesting that Kasumi can work out for escorting the crew back because it's like for me narratively thinking I'm like well she's always been on her own. [SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean like she's never really had to escort people or take care of them and her line of work is incredibly individualistic, you know it's not teem oriented.

40:52 [SPEAKER_05]: So kind of surprising I guess that it would work [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe this is character growth for Cassini being able to now work with a squad, work with a team, and being able to protect other people. [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, she is also very good at what she does and is able to do crowd control and keep people at bay, like enemy collectors that would be trying to [SPEAKER_05]: that's true, the flashbang.

41:21 [SPEAKER_05]: And of course, you can bring garris to the final battle, right? [SPEAKER_05]: Pretty simple calculus there. [SPEAKER_05]: If he's loyal, he survives. [SPEAKER_05]: If he's not, he dies in the rubble. [SPEAKER_05]: And it's after the human reaper dies. [SPEAKER_05]: But when he dies in the rubble, it's actually a really sad [SPEAKER_05]: scene for having no lines because Shepherd picks up garris' lifeless body and his holding garris in his or her arms.

41:50 [SPEAKER_05]: And you can see the pain and in Shepherd just looking at garris until I think it's Joker comes over the the uh comms and says we got to go like and Shepherd has to just leave garris' body there. [SPEAKER_06]: I have seen this clip and it's got wrenching, just holding gears and then having to set him down on the ground as you flee is just like, [SPEAKER_06]: I, it hurts, it hurts to watch no matter what version of garrison you have, you know, whether he's your best friend or whether he's your romance partner, your love interest, it hurts knowing that we have to leave garrison behind.

42:38 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's just, it doesn't feel right. [SPEAKER_05]: Now, I think narratively speaking, bringing garris to the final battle might be the most justified decision you could make, because he is your rider dive, right? [SPEAKER_05]: Like, he is your most trusted brother and arms, and so bringing him along.

43:00 [SPEAKER_05]: to finish the job with the collectors would just make sense. [SPEAKER_05]: I would want someone who can watch my back, right? [SPEAKER_05]: And who I trust 110%. [SPEAKER_05]: And Garrison's been by Shepherd side since the Citadel, tracking Seren. [SPEAKER_05]: He also has a few extremely useful abilities like armor piercing ammo in that in that fight, right?

43:25 [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and it's kind of a poetic choice for the final showdown, uh, provided that he is loyal enough to ensure that he survives. [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and I think this is also another way. [SPEAKER_05]: It doesn't really ever elaborate on this and the cutscenes or anything, but I feel like this is also a big growth opportunity for Garris to, for give himself for what happened to his crew on Omega.

43:51 [SPEAKER_06]: I definitely feel like even after this Sidonus mission, all steps moving forward with Garis, say for the ones that get him obviously killed, really do help to reinforce the decisions of, you know, like you are capable Garis, you are a leader, you can do this. [SPEAKER_06]: was a little too far fetched here.

44:23 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, but working within the scale of what is physically possible, you can do this and choosing him to be either the other fire team or bringing him with you to the end battle, having him at your side, makes him realize that he is a [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, it's like spread your wings and leave the nest a little one.

44:54 [SPEAKER_05]: You know, his archangel wings is his archangel bird wings because he's a bird person. [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, I think it's a big growth opportunity for him. [SPEAKER_05]: Now, of course, you can also have him hold a line right instead. [SPEAKER_05]: So garris is of course highly likely to survive because [SPEAKER_05]: Each of the squadmates has a defensive value.

45:18 [SPEAKER_05]: It's like an invisible stat that's assigned to them. [SPEAKER_05]: And we can think of it as like, how likely are they to die during the suicide mission? [SPEAKER_05]: And Garris is one of the least likely to die at all. [SPEAKER_05]: And so if you leave them behind, [SPEAKER_05]: then he actually increases the survival rate of everyone else left behind.

45:44 [SPEAKER_05]: Everyone else you didn't take to the final battle. [SPEAKER_05]: He's apparently tied with grunt insaiide for the highest baseline defensive value in the game. [SPEAKER_05]: So if you want to bring garris with you, leave grunt insaiide back. [SPEAKER_05]: That's probably the move. [SPEAKER_05]: Narratively speaking, I think that it's also incredibly justified to leave Garris behind and not bring him to the final fight because you are setting him up in a position where he's able to use his sniper and pick off collectors as they get bottlenecked, coming toward the Normandy.

46:23 [SPEAKER_06]: I've done this a couple of different ways, especially because like I almost always choose no I have always chosen Jack to be the one to hold the bubble, the biotic barrier bubble. [SPEAKER_06]: and then most of the time I'll have garris with me because he's garris but I've also gone the route of Miranda so that way I can get that final interaction between Miranda and the elusive man so garris is either with me or he is making sure that everybody else on the crew survives.

47:00 [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you for reminding me, Garus can also die if you pick the wrong person to hold up the bubble. [SPEAKER_05]: The biotic bubble, because if it's the wrong person, they start kind of failing toward the end of that long walk and then Garus is holding the flank. [SPEAKER_05]: But he doesn't realize that he's outside the bubble and he gets carried away by a bunch of collector swarm.

47:23 [SPEAKER_05]: And it's kind of sad because it's just, [SPEAKER_05]: And he's gone. [SPEAKER_05]: He's carried into the dark. [SPEAKER_05]: See you guys. [SPEAKER_05]: That's it. [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for playing. [SPEAKER_06]: I don't like that one bit. [SPEAKER_06]: Oh my gosh. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's it's pretty funny in my opinion, but I've never done it.

47:50 [SPEAKER_05]: I just watched the videos in YouTube. [SPEAKER_06]: It's Gary's just gets heated away. [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, that would pretty much funny to witness, but not to actually play through. [SPEAKER_06]: No, thank you. [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah, I'd reload a save immediately. [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, that's pretty much, Gary's is an entire arc for Mass Effect 2.

48:11 [SPEAKER_05]: Now, of course, we have more to talk about with Gary's and Mass Effect 3 substantially more. [SPEAKER_05]: And I don't know, maybe another two episodes. [SPEAKER_05]: I was going to say another one episode, but maybe two. [SPEAKER_06]: if not three. [SPEAKER_06]: Um, because there's so much to talk about with Garrison, uh, just in like the base game alone.

48:35 [SPEAKER_06]: And then there's the romance aspect on top of that. [SPEAKER_06]: And then there's everything that happens in the Citadel DLC. [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, there's a lot of Garrison to go around in Mathifect 3. [SPEAKER_05]: So much, Garrison. [SPEAKER_05]: All right. [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's all we got for this week, um, Genesis.

48:53 [SPEAKER_05]: We got [SPEAKER_06]: uh you know i actually did pick up a new game it's called uh dysphonic and it is one of the most chill sandbox games i have ever played it is pure cyberpunk [SPEAKER_06]: and a building creator, you just get this hit there and hit the button of build a new building and then you can zoom in and add decorations and lights and advertisements and everything that looks so 277, it's beautiful and so immersive and I've sunk a little bit of time into it.

49:35 [SPEAKER_05]: So many Mr. Stud Billboards. [SPEAKER_06]: You know, you have to upload assets in order to use them. [SPEAKER_06]: It doesn't come stock with anything cyberpunk itself. [SPEAKER_06]: I do not have a Mr. Stud. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: You need to get one. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_05]: Or maybe mix it up.

49:52 [SPEAKER_05]: God. [SPEAKER_06]: You know what, I will throw Lady Vixen's up on those boards. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yep. [SPEAKER_05]: All right. [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I am, I just picked up recently and started playing recently Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 and I am way late to the game on this one, but man, I love that game.

50:11 [SPEAKER_05]: and i am loving it it is so fun and and very immersive uh i think it's one of the very few medieval game medieval RPGs i've played that are that is not fantasy that is trying to remain as true to the time period as it can uh and i love it i love it so far it's very fun [SPEAKER_05]: Um, also playing some nautica too, which I'm a huge somnautica fan, you know, open world sandbox kind of mysterious creepy alien story line going on in the background.

50:45 [SPEAKER_05]: So, uh, yeah, those are the games that I'm playing. [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and I think that's pretty much all I got going on for now, besides this show, I've been trying to like kind of work. [SPEAKER_05]: around some kind of schedule where I might be able to stream. [SPEAKER_05]: But most days I am so beat after my wife gets home from work and I'm done watching my son and you know, don't have anything to do on the lower cast that I'm like, I want to play games for me.

51:15 [SPEAKER_05]: I just want to play games for me, you know. [SPEAKER_05]: So if anyone's wondering why haven't been streaming very much, that's why. [SPEAKER_05]: But Genesis, what do you got going on? [SPEAKER_05]: And you know, how can people get a whole [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, so I do have my two other shows.

51:32 [SPEAKER_06]: They are always going the two girls one ship where we analyze rate and review video game romances and where we have covered all of the mass-effect romances through all three games. [SPEAKER_06]: and the cyberpunk lore cast exploring the foundations of the past, which we are really, really into right now because we have a new source book night city 2045 that has advanced the timeline a little bit in the TTRPG sphere working its way eventually to match up with where the video games are at right now.

52:09 [SPEAKER_06]: Um, so bumping this timeline a little bit more forward and toast you and I are absolutely loving going through all of the lore there. [SPEAKER_06]: Um, and then, as for how you can get a hold of me, discord is the best way. [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, it is Genesis, J-E-N-N-A-S-I-S. [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, you can also find me on that name on Spotify where we still have the Garus Vicaramix up, uh, going strong.

52:38 [SPEAKER_05]: By the way, I tried to add a song to that one, and maybe I'm being a little bit of a boomer, but I can't seem to get it to work, adding it. [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe the playlist might need to be opened up, I'm not sure. [SPEAKER_05]: But I tried to add name of the game by the crystal method.

52:53 [SPEAKER_06]: It was added already by somebody else. [SPEAKER_06]: So maybe that's what the problem was is that it's not allowing duplicates. [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, maybe so. [SPEAKER_05]: But all right, if you guys have ideas for that garrison of a caromix, music garrison would listen to.

53:08 [SPEAKER_05]: Go ahead and go and add it to it on Spotify. [SPEAKER_05]: Until then, specters, we should go. [SPEAKER_05]: Have a good one, guys. [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for listening to the Mass Effect War Test. [SPEAKER_05]: Reach out to us on Blue Sky, Twitter, Discord, Patreon, or email us at Mass EffectLoreCast at gmail.com.

53:41 [SPEAKER_06]: Join us next week for more lore, same space, same time. [SPEAKER_06]: Or check out our live streams at twitch.tv slash Mass Effect WarCast.