251: What We HATE About Mass Effect

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm Commander Sheppard, and this is my favorite lorecast on the Citadel. [SPEAKER_08]: Welcome to the Mass Effect lore test. [SPEAKER_08]: I'm in seven the legend. [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm Genesis. [SPEAKER_04]: Join us. [SPEAKER_08]: As we explore along tides of light. [SPEAKER_08]: And through shows of dust.

[SPEAKER_08]: To see where this lore began. [SPEAKER_04]: And consider where it may go. [SPEAKER_08]: The specters welcome back to another patron chat episode of the Mass Effect Lorcast. [SPEAKER_08]: We are at the end of June and joining me as always is my lovely co-host Genesis who I just saw while I was on vacation.

[SPEAKER_08]: Genesis, how's it going? [SPEAKER_04]: Going pretty good did a lot of driving at the last couple of days, but very well worth it. [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, Genesis was on the road for quite a while trying to track me down while I was different places near her. [SPEAKER_08]: So we also have a few of our lovely patrons joining us today as well.

[SPEAKER_08]: We've got Redtrabot, Redtrabot, how's it going? [SPEAKER_07]: Don't you? [SPEAKER_08]: Awesome. [SPEAKER_08]: I see a drum set behind you. [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, yes it is. [SPEAKER_08]: Nice. [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't know you played the drums. [SPEAKER_08]: Today I learned something. [SPEAKER_08]: Day.

[SPEAKER_08]: How are you doing? [SPEAKER_08]: I'm doing quite all right. [SPEAKER_08]: Excellent. [SPEAKER_08]: And joining us for the first time, we have Astrobot Studios. [SPEAKER_08]: How's it going? [SPEAKER_05]: It's grown great, happy to be here and look forward to hopefully sticking around with you guys for a long time.

[SPEAKER_08]: So tell me about what's behind the name Astrobo Studios. [SPEAKER_08]: So I'm sure there's a story behind Astrobo and studios. [SPEAKER_08]: I'm guessing you're either a recording artist or you've got your own podcast. [SPEAKER_05]: Um, so I am actually an amateur astronomer and astrophotographer, uh, so I have a couple of telescopes that I, uh, I can set up and, you know, take pictures and all kinds of other stuff.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, uh, that's where that kind of came from and start and trying to build my brand. [SPEAKER_05]: So, thought maybe having an actual name to go with that might not be a bad idea. [SPEAKER_08]: Man, that's so cool. [SPEAKER_08]: I have always wanted to learn how to take, you know, astronomy photos.

[SPEAKER_08]: I love photography myself. [SPEAKER_08]: I used to take my own as part of my job. [SPEAKER_08]: So maybe I'll hit you up offline for some tips. [SPEAKER_08]: But we are gathered here today to discuss not what we'd like about mass effect. [SPEAKER_08]: I know this is going to ruffle some feathers, I think, this episode.

[SPEAKER_08]: But we're here [SPEAKER_08]: that are in the games or anywhere in the lore of Mass Effect. [SPEAKER_08]: Now Retrobot, you're the one who suggested this topic to us. [SPEAKER_08]: I already know that you have an axe to grind with Medigil. [SPEAKER_08]: So I'm gonna let you kick us off here, but I'm already anticipating a rant about Medigil.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, how can you tell? [SPEAKER_07]: It's almost [SPEAKER_07]: You have what I change is metal gel because they just kind of treat it as a panacea. [SPEAKER_07]: It's like, oh, it here is everything. [SPEAKER_07]: Then they just like how they describe it and Mass Effect 1 is fine. [SPEAKER_07]: They're like, okay, now it'll box whatever stop bleeding.

[SPEAKER_07]: But then they just keep on adding random details on top of it, which just can use it so much. [SPEAKER_07]: It's like, oh, it can mimic skin pigmentation. [SPEAKER_07]: You can overdose on [SPEAKER_07]: Just I'll hold out of just random details that doesn't make sense. [SPEAKER_07]: Like there's absolutely no reason why Metagel should [SPEAKER_07]: mimic skin pigmentation.

[SPEAKER_07]: Like if you get injured, you get shot. [SPEAKER_07]: You want the doctor or the medic to be able to see where your shot, not that you have a hole that just looks like your normal skin. [SPEAKER_07]: If that makes no sense at all. [SPEAKER_08]: So where if you could track down exactly the development of meta gel and the lore behind it, where do you think it all went wrong?

[SPEAKER_08]: Where was [SPEAKER_07]: Probably once you start game to like massive tech, massive tech to like three, where they just start adding a bunch of random details about it. [SPEAKER_07]: And then they start talking about the like one machine in three where server is found like, they like upgrade it, but it only works better on how or something.

[SPEAKER_07]: Which like, that's another fun is like each species would, [SPEAKER_07]: So it's kind of weird for them to be able to like, oh, yeah, it just works on everybody. [SPEAKER_07]: Because everybody every species in that, I mean, would be different behind how they're blood and how their body system collapsed and kills itself.

[SPEAKER_07]: So they're like, yeah, it just does, it just works. [SPEAKER_08]: So maybe in the next game, well, I guess I should, I should let you fill in the gaps here. [SPEAKER_08]: What would you like to see in the next game with how it approaches Medigel that would make it a little bit more palatable for you?

[SPEAKER_07]: I just feel like if they add more medical information besides, because like the way they trade is Medigel is the only battlefield treatment they do, which they need to be adding stuff around it, [SPEAKER_07]: There's a lot that they don't explain how Medegell would help, like if you have a close their way or something, if you don't have a pain in their way, like how's injecting a gel or whatever going to help with that.

[SPEAKER_07]: So that doesn't describe that. [SPEAKER_07]: They really only talk about it as a way to stop mass of hemorrhaging, but they're like, oh, if they believe [SPEAKER_07]: And they like talk about how it's able to act as both an antibiotic and an analgesic, which doesn't make sense, because the dosage for both is very different.

[SPEAKER_07]: So, I don't know, they just keep on adding a bunch of this like yeah, magical does this it also does this. [SPEAKER_07]: You can also do this, or if you're trained, you can also do this and this. [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you know, would you want to see an expansion of the different, you know, uh, injuries and health system in Mass Effect, because I feel like if we go too far down that route, we're probably looking at almost a survival game.

[SPEAKER_07]: True, but I just want like more information around, like there has to be [SPEAKER_07]: There has to be interventions besides metadata, because they're trained to medgell, like it treats everything, when like even in the games, the way it's described, doesn't treat everything. [SPEAKER_08]: Now, what if instead of hitting, you know, why to apply meta-jill, you hit Y just for Quinn and Quote first aid.

[SPEAKER_08]: And they could just give it a more all-encompassing term, where maybe meta-jell is part of that, maybe a splint is part of that, yada, yada, yada. [SPEAKER_07]: Like, I'd see it as more, since they really got into, like, oh, now they're developing all these hard suits that can administer medge on other friends.

[SPEAKER_07]: They should be talking about how those hard suits can also administer other kinds of aid. [SPEAKER_07]: Because they never talk about how Medegel would help prevent hypothermia, which is a main thing. [SPEAKER_07]: So if they talk about, oh, the hard suits have active, [SPEAKER_07]: or if they have some sort of ED2 or something to keep the airway open, is that?

[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, so basically you'd be happy with a little bit more lore that's copicetic unless hand-weavy. [SPEAKER_08]: I want to open this up to our other patrons, your hard joining us. [SPEAKER_08]: What do you think about the way that the game has approached Medigel? [SPEAKER_08]: Does it bother you or does it not?

[SPEAKER_08]: I'll go over to [SPEAKER_05]: So I think that my general assessment of it is that from a gameplay mechanic standpoint, it works perfectly. [SPEAKER_05]: It does exactly what you needed to do mechanically. [SPEAKER_05]: But I'll acknowledge that when you start looking at some of the orbits that get dropped in the codex and things like that about it, it starts to get a little bit less cohesive.

[SPEAKER_05]: you know, kind of like a kind of like you were saying retrobot. [SPEAKER_05]: So I like it ultimately and I think it serves as purpose. [SPEAKER_05]: But I could see where you'd want to either expand on the lore in a little bit more of a case by case for our specific spaces or or retract some of that or maybe not right as much of that lore.

[SPEAKER_05]: I should say when you're writing the code, I can stuff like that. [SPEAKER_08]: right on. [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, day, how do you feel about how bioware approached Medigil throughout three games, small four games? [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not a hater of Medigil per se, but I do understand it like just how fun listening writing for it became.

[SPEAKER_06]: But like, oh, it's just, ah, what's that? [SPEAKER_06]: You got French foot, Medigil, the broken heart, Medigil. [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, you scraped a pinky, Medigil. [SPEAKER_06]: I did become real surface [SPEAKER_06]: a bandage for everything. [SPEAKER_06]: It's supposed to help and use it as like a lot of elements somehow, maybe even it's just like a side fence just to use it more, but it is just like a white heel sort of thing.

[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, and I guess that stands out because everything else is so well written into the lore about you know, why it works and how it works. [SPEAKER_08]: So Medigil does kind of stick out as this kind of [SPEAKER_08]: You know, it's just a gameplay thing, just, you just got to suspend disbelief.

[SPEAKER_08]: Genesis, how do you feel about the Medigel situation? [SPEAKER_04]: From a game play mechanic, I totally get it. [SPEAKER_04]: You hit wide a heel. [SPEAKER_04]: It's how we play 90% of the games unless you're doing specific survival type games, and then you really have to pay attention to it.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I am also the type of person who will critique medical dramas for their bullshittery on how they handle stuff. [SPEAKER_04]: I also don't like the way that they display like the bullsawks machines and like ratings. [SPEAKER_04]: of what the patient's heart rate and oxygen stats are at in video games so many times if a patient was reading that way they would be dead a video game I played recently showed somebody's oxygen stats at 62 and I'm like yeah know that that guy's not alive sounds like fun Friday night yeah there's no way that we are having a conversation with [SPEAKER_04]: So, and he had a nasal cannula, and so he was being fed oxygen, and he was still down that low.

[SPEAKER_04]: So, I also do not like how medical issues and things like that are portrayed and overlooked in video games and in other media. [SPEAKER_04]: But the hand-wave of everything is fixed because this is how you heal from a gameplay standpoint I get it, but I do wish that there was a little bit more to it.

[SPEAKER_08]: and that the Medagell Repair is Legion as well. [SPEAKER_04]: I do. [SPEAKER_04]: I do also want to point out that there is Medagell for different species, specifically because we get additional information from service on how to make Medagell specifically for the hand are more effective.

[SPEAKER_04]: So there are at least some parts of it that say this version of Medagell is more effective. [SPEAKER_04]: So we're all we know, Shepherd could be carrying around five, six different types of Medagell and shoots Jacob with something different in comparison to Gareth's just based off of their species.

[SPEAKER_04]: We just don't see that. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I guess we'll see if they expand upon it or maybe just even make it more vague in the next game. [SPEAKER_08]: I guess we'll see about that. [SPEAKER_05]: But if I may, if I may interject, the only thing I'll add on to that point about Legion is, I mean, with the Lord being that it's nano box and stuff like that, I wouldn't that, you know, I feel like I would make it almost more effective.

[SPEAKER_05]: in that case. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, you're absolutely right about that one. [SPEAKER_08]: So the fact that they made it nanobots, it provides the justification that it's smart medicine, right? [SPEAKER_08]: So yeah, it can just do whatever you tell it to. [SPEAKER_08]: I guess in the next game, I would love to see some applications of [SPEAKER_08]: you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_08]: Like the nanobots got the wires crossed and where they should have repaired a broken limb, they actually made him grow another. [SPEAKER_08]: So that would be kind of funny. [SPEAKER_08]: And I'd love to see some of the fallibility of Medigel. [SPEAKER_08]: I think that would probably also make it a little bit more palatable for you retro about wouldn't it like seeing the mistakes that [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_07]: Plus like they never, like the amount of time, you just find Medagell, because from a gameplay perspective, you have to find more, because you use it. [SPEAKER_07]: But like when you're on like an abandoned planet, and it's like, oh yeah, this Medagell was putting this cabinet like 20, 40 years ago.

[SPEAKER_07]: Like, oh, this Medagell is just, it's just stable, does it just stay good or restemperated time? [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know, maybe if you've been shot, you're not really faking talks about this one might be stale. [SPEAKER_08]: But I don't know, what do I know? [SPEAKER_08]: All right, well, thank you, Retrobot.

[SPEAKER_08]: Always love hearing your rant about Medigel and I don't expect them to see anytime soon. [SPEAKER_08]: Day. [SPEAKER_08]: what acts do you have to grind with Mass Effect? [SPEAKER_08]: And you know, uh, which game is it from? [SPEAKER_08]: And how intense is your hatred for it? [SPEAKER_06]: This topic was really a head scratcher for me because I am the lowest common denominator consumer when it comes to video games.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm not usually the type that's like, uh, play a game for five minutes, and I already know what I hate immediately. [SPEAKER_06]: And so I will continue to play that game for 300 hours. [SPEAKER_08]: So yeah, low sodium early back. [SPEAKER_06]: One thing that I really hated that they it takes eventually with three was the weapon restrictions in two.

[SPEAKER_06]: And are still for some reason there was legendary addition. [SPEAKER_06]: Really you can't use an assault rifle. [SPEAKER_06]: You know, just because you're an adult. [SPEAKER_06]: it would it would make sense in like a fantasy setting where it's like a beige can't really use a sword because I have a practice with it.

[SPEAKER_06]: Not so much in a sci-fi setting where you're a soldier. [SPEAKER_06]: This one is so petty that I'm really hate how they like not shift this with maths effect yet, you know the kind of sense of bail guard is that there's not enough casual outfits for me to be [SPEAKER_06]: it's only like six or seven in like massive back three and there's only like sure in the end-dromeda.

[SPEAKER_06]: But with with Vanguard, they're actually expanded. [SPEAKER_06]: It's like a whole hand when you just wear armor casually, too, with the current box system. [SPEAKER_06]: So hopefully back this [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, you touched on I think something Genesis and I both agree on I love playing RPGs for fashion Let me let me have a wide variety of armor weapons, you know, a peril outfits to customize my characters gear with And so only having like five or six that's actually one of the main things I mod every single time I play through the trilogy [SPEAKER_08]: is adding in new armor and new apparel sets.

[SPEAKER_08]: What about you, Genesis? [SPEAKER_04]: Polyagree, absolutely, give me all the clothing options. [SPEAKER_04]: Give me better makeup options. [SPEAKER_04]: Give me better hair options. [SPEAKER_04]: Thankfully, VailGuard did fix the hair problems that I've had about Mass Effect. [SPEAKER_04]: But I fully agree that I always add more.

[SPEAKER_04]: I also like seeing my female characters be feminine while not in Soldier Gear. [SPEAKER_04]: the fact that you know the or a fellowship there's definitely not a lot of options of something that I would consider myself to wear you know around around the ship. [SPEAKER_04]: It is either I am going to be wearing the exact same military outfits that my male counterparts are wearing or a fancy party dress.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like [SPEAKER_04]: I can't wear like a short sleeves and a jeans and a t-shirt. [SPEAKER_04]: I can't wear that in my downtime. [SPEAKER_08]: Best you can get is a hoodie over fatigues. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, baggy, baggy clothes that are not form fitting at all, or a dress that femme ship never closes her legs.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like when she sits, it's the same body animation as a male shepherd. [SPEAKER_04]: So when she sits down, she's like knees all the way out to here. [SPEAKER_04]: So there's literally a gaping black hole because she's wearing a dress. [SPEAKER_08]: That's a word choice. [SPEAKER_04]: I will show you screenshots and you tell me it's anything other than a gaping black hole.

[SPEAKER_08]: Okay, you don't need to send me pictures of gaped. [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, no, I'm fully with day about having more clothing customization and also agree that it is ridiculous the way that they did the weapon load out in Mass Effect 2. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_08]: So let's talk about that mass effect to weapon loadout and the apparel options.

[SPEAKER_08]: I want to open this up for Retrobot and Astrobot Studios. [SPEAKER_08]: We'll go over to you Retrobot first. [SPEAKER_08]: How did you feel about the weapon loadout system and mass effect to? [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it just didn't make sense. [SPEAKER_07]: Like I understand, like real light and all Terry, sure you have your specialities, but every soldier goes through the same basic training.

[SPEAKER_07]: So, like, no matter like what your specialized in, everyone should be able to use an assault rifle. [SPEAKER_07]: Like, even if you're issued something else, like, maybe you're having a gun area, your medic are using something else. [SPEAKER_07]: You're released. [SPEAKER_07]: Everyone is trained and proficient in using them for.

[SPEAKER_07]: So, like, like, I don't understand restricting assault rifles. [SPEAKER_07]: I also agree with the clothing. [SPEAKER_07]: Just because I was feeling like, it just gave me the whole AIT feeling that's like, oh, you're there for your events individual training and you only have like one pair of civilians because you only have like one or two days, maybe a week where you can actually go away from where you're training to go do something else, but yeah, I felt weird.

[SPEAKER_07]: Like, especially being like the high officer on that ship, he'd basically be either had to be in his full duty uniform, in his dressing uniform, or in like a PT uniform, and like all times. [SPEAKER_08]: What about in Mass Effect 2? [SPEAKER_08]: Well, Mass Effect 2 in particular, where the relationship between the alliance and Shepherd is pretty severed.

[SPEAKER_08]: So, [SPEAKER_08]: Shepherd is a specter or maybe not anymore, but regardless, not a best working for a pair of military organization as a basically a private military contractor. [SPEAKER_08]: So Shepherd can wear whatever shepherd wants, right? [SPEAKER_08]: And most people at that point are not going to want to wear an uncomfortable [SPEAKER_08]: And I'm sure you've seen them same as I have the PMCs with the super long bushy beards, and they're wearing like, you know, tactical pants and a tight affliction shirt, you know what I'm saying?

[SPEAKER_07]: Like, yeah, no, I'm sure like a massive fight too. [SPEAKER_07]: He just go like full tactical. [SPEAKER_07]: He's got like the palm bat shirt that you got custom tailor. [SPEAKER_07]: The Oakley's wearing the custom pants that have the [SPEAKER_07]: his hair is just massive. [SPEAKER_08]: I'm kind of here for douchebag shepherd.

[SPEAKER_08]: I need to see douchebag shepherd with the tactical gear and it says and he has like a don't tread on me thing on his rifle. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but also I feel like was shepherd because like it's also saying like not as a lot of people who are like career military like that's kind of their entire [SPEAKER_07]: personality.

[SPEAKER_07]: So even when they're not at work, they tend to, yes, tend to like dress and act like, Oh, this is who I am on high speed operator, but to dress like I'm ready to take anyone down at any time. [SPEAKER_08]: Well, and the higher level officers, certainly, because with the higher level officers, it's, it's almost like, you know, [SPEAKER_08]: If anyone has ever heard the phrase conduct on becoming an officer, that applies to all of the moments where you are not on the clock, too.

[SPEAKER_08]: So you have to have a very rigid set of proper behavior that you have to adhere to if you're an officer for long enough. [SPEAKER_08]: And at this point in Shepard's career, yeah, I kind of agree with you that that would be ingrained at least to some extent. [SPEAKER_08]: Um, I want to pass this over to Astrobot Studios.

[SPEAKER_08]: Astrobot, how did you feel about A? [SPEAKER_08]: The weapon system and Mass Effect to restricting what you can use, and B, the apparel choices between armor and, and, uh, I guess you could say informal outfits. [SPEAKER_05]: Um, so I'm actually going to stand against the, uh, the consensus a little bit here and say that when you're talking about traditional RPGs, um, in the sense like, I know that's more massive.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so, you know, yeah, Lord, we're eyes, you know, for any universe-wise, I can see where that would be in the issue. [SPEAKER_05]: But personally, I don't see an issue with the weapon restrictions game play-wise because of that. [SPEAKER_05]: Now, for the, the armor and the clothing stuff, I'm, I'm not going to touch on that too much because I'm not the fashion, I'm not the fashion person, I don't really do that too much.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's not an area. [SPEAKER_05]: You don't care one way or the other. [SPEAKER_05]: No, in that regard, no, not really, you know, it's, it's, that's just not really my thing. [SPEAKER_08]: Well, let me ask you just real quick, the inventory and the armor system between Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2, which one do you prefer?

[SPEAKER_05]: The loot goblin in me prefers Mass Effect 1, but I think just how much more streamlined the system is in Mass Effect 2, I probably have to give that one the head, the point for how much faster and more streamlined is, I don't have to sit and spend a whole bunch of time. [SPEAKER_05]: sorting through my inventory, selling unwanted stuff, you know, making small upgrades here and there if I get something that's one level higher, you know, it kind of just takes care of all of that.

[SPEAKER_05]: So it improves the pace of play a lot to me. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, right on. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, and pacing was something that we know the developers were very concerned about, especially come Mass Effect 2 and 3, because they had heard the complaints from the community in Mass Effect 1, and they saw the stats on how many people stopped playing at certain points, like a lot of people stopped playing when they got to the Citadel, because the level design and the pacing just wasn't there to encourage people to keep playing, and a lot of people stopped playing when they got to Ferros.

[SPEAKER_08]: because Pharaoh, again, the level design in the pacing wasn't there, so come Mass Effect 2, they had some hard limits on how long a character recruitment mission could be and how long a loyalty mission could be. [SPEAKER_08]: And that did exponentially speed up the gameplay. [SPEAKER_05]: That's something I actually have a little bit of personal experience with, because when I tried playing Mass Effect 1 the first time, I put it down after, after Eden Prime, or after Citadel, sorry, the first the first trip to the Citadel when you're going, getting ready to go to Novaria, I put it down there because I couldn't get into the game now.

[SPEAKER_05]: The second time around, I just kind of, you know, [SPEAKER_05]: Like, just sold you through that part and once the story kind of started to unfold, that's where I kind of got hooked by it and I, you know, I played through it the second time after that, but, you know, I can't even recommend it to my friends because I tried to and they, they get to know very, they get to Citadel or anything like that and I put it down.

[SPEAKER_05]: So I can definitely see what that's a problem. [SPEAKER_08]: it's definitely not for everybody. [SPEAKER_08]: I like slower pace games. [SPEAKER_08]: I know that that's not for everybody, and especially I like slower pace games where I'm super immersed into the lore. [SPEAKER_08]: But if you're there for the story and you don't have the nostalgia factor and you're not as immersed as maybe I was, I can 100% see why you would lose interest in the pacing of Mass Effect 1.

[SPEAKER_08]: and they really perfected that. [SPEAKER_08]: Come Mass Effect 3. [SPEAKER_08]: Alright, I want to open this up for any final comments on the weapon restrictions and the apparel, the fashion Mass Effect before we head over to the Mid-Break. [SPEAKER_08]: Genesis, you got anything? [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, no, I think I've kind of already said my piece that I, I don't like the fact of the weapons in Mass Effect 2 didn't tell me their stats.

[SPEAKER_04]: Um, because I am the type of gamer who is like, all right, this is worth 50 attack points. [SPEAKER_04]: This one's only worth 20. [SPEAKER_04]: And then I'll compare that to like accuracy and a couple of other stats just to see how I would want to play it out. [SPEAKER_04]: And there were no numbers.

[SPEAKER_04]: There was no data. [SPEAKER_04]: for me to go on, it was all flavor text, and then how the gun was actually going to be firing. [SPEAKER_04]: So I don't know which one does the most damage, and that's really the part that I care about. [SPEAKER_08]: Right on. [SPEAKER_08]: All right. [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I think that will take us over to the mid break.

[SPEAKER_08]: And we've got some patrons to shout out. [SPEAKER_08]: We're not going to do our sound voice line pop quiz this week because we would prefer to spend more time talking with our patrons. [SPEAKER_08]: And we don't have any plan a card for the same reason. [SPEAKER_08]: So let's go over to the mid break and we will be right back.

[SPEAKER_03]: We have beef, bacon, we have beer, the foods of my people. [SPEAKER_02]: Young men have funny ideas of what a star you're like. [SPEAKER_02]: I blame the extra net and computer games. [SPEAKER_06]: Rex, shepherd, grunt, shepherd, racks. [SPEAKER_08]: All right, here we are in the middle of the show.

[SPEAKER_08]: Now this is the part where we would read how your five-star reviews on Apple podcasts or anywhere you listen to your podcast that lets you write reviews. [SPEAKER_08]: I know audible does the same thing as well. [SPEAKER_08]: Some people use different podcasts like castbox I think is one and then we have basically a tool that lets us aggregate.

[SPEAKER_08]: reviews and we can read them. [SPEAKER_08]: But according to that aggregator, we don't have any new ones this this week So the oh, you know what we do we have one from cast box this one just came up This one's from black minis. [SPEAKER_08]: It's from cast box and it says bonk bonk bonk That's it.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, that happens occasionally on this podcast and I don't apologize for it [SPEAKER_08]: I don't I don't understand it always that the horny stick. [SPEAKER_08]: They're hitting us with the horny stick. [SPEAKER_08]: Ah, there we go. [SPEAKER_08]: I understand because of this steamy garris romance that we talked about.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_08]: All right. [SPEAKER_08]: Well, we we're sorry that we perhaps ruffled a little bit of people's feathers and maybe got you all hot and bothered. [SPEAKER_08]: Hopefully not. [SPEAKER_04]: We've gotten horny over Ashley and Caden, and I think those are the only character deep dive soup done so far.

[SPEAKER_08]: Hi, always with Ashley, anyway. [SPEAKER_08]: But we do have a couple of nice comments from people who listen to the show on Spotify. [SPEAKER_08]: And if you want to get your comment right out, and you listen on Spotify, go ahead and go to our most recent episode. [SPEAKER_08]: and I tried to check those comments before the show every week.

[SPEAKER_08]: The most recent one that we did about that steamy garrison romance. [SPEAKER_08]: And we've got one from Gothic Reaper who's also a patron of the show, who writes 1000 stars. [SPEAKER_08]: Thanks for the deep dive into our most favorite squadmate and the best romance option of all games I've seen so far.

[SPEAKER_08]: Also, I can only highly recommend trying out the extended galaxy mod that finally. [SPEAKER_08]: gives us the romance scenes from aspect 2 and 3 we all deserve with Garros. [SPEAKER_08]: Gothic Reaper, you're right on the money, extended galaxy mod is, I think it's called expanded galaxy mod.

[SPEAKER_08]: Expanded galaxy mod is an incredible mod. [SPEAKER_08]: I always play with it. [SPEAKER_08]: Huge props to the mod author. [SPEAKER_08]: We have another nice review here from Jan Seri. [SPEAKER_08]: I hope I said that correctly, there's a couple of accents over the last name. [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, Jan says, thank you for another great episode, finally returning to a loyal, Mass Effect 1 through 3 squadmate.

[SPEAKER_08]: I let Gareth die in only one of my 15 plus playthroughs, just to find out who replaces not only him in various cutscenes. [SPEAKER_08]: The only positive thing about it was finding out that trainer checks out Fimshep's butt when comforting her after 2 Chanka instead of Gareth. [SPEAKER_08]: Tolly survives in the in the collector base too, by the way.

[SPEAKER_08]: Keep up the good work and making my commute more bearable greetings from the Czech Republic There we go. [SPEAKER_08]: We got some eastern European listeners. [SPEAKER_08]: Thank you, Jim And we also have some new patrons that we'd like to shut up We've got KDS and Carolyn S Yeah, we've got those two patrons.

[SPEAKER_08]: I think we forgot to shout them out a couple weeks ago [SPEAKER_08]: So thank you both for joining on to the Patreon. [SPEAKER_08]: If anyone is able and willing to help us with monthly donation on Patreon, we try to give our value back to our patrons. [SPEAKER_08]: So we have stickers, we have t-shirts and hoodies, right?

[SPEAKER_08]: Are the hoodies still happening? [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's three t-shirts and then a hoodie is the final after the full year. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_08]: Okay. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_08]: And those happen quarterly. [SPEAKER_08]: So we try to give value back to our patrons.

[SPEAKER_08]: And of course, if you're a patron at all of any tier, you get unadded episodes with the full [SPEAKER_08]: pre-show chat that often goes way off the rails and no ad breaks, of course. [SPEAKER_08]: So thank you all so much for supporting the show and especially our tier five patrons who I'd like to shout out now that includes a day, Reddrebot, Superfly 440, Ed Boy, Kira C, Lt. Tusino, and a William.

[SPEAKER_08]: Thank you all so much for your continued support of the show, Genesis, did I miss anything? [SPEAKER_04]: No, you did not. [SPEAKER_04]: I was just throwing up a big heart sign for William, uh, congratulations to you, big bills. [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, that it was really, really cool and awesome news to hear.

[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, I won't share his news, but he's got really cool stuff going on in his life right now and why he couldn't be here tonight. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, absolutely. [SPEAKER_08]: It's a happy reason. [SPEAKER_08]: A very happy reason why big bills cannot be here. [SPEAKER_08]: But all right, let's get back to the rest of the show.

[SPEAKER_01]: After time and drift among open stars, a long tides of light and through shows of dust, I will return to where I began. [SPEAKER_00]: Celery and reproduction different, very little sex drive. [SPEAKER_00]: If intended to try human, would try you. [SPEAKER_00]: Ow, my pancreas! [SPEAKER_08]: all right looks like my camera has decided that it wants to go a wall yet again but here we are in the second half of the show where we're talking about the things that we hate about mass fact um now so far we've already spoken about red trobots love of medigel [SPEAKER_08]: We've spoken about the restrictions from weapons in Mass Effect 2.

[SPEAKER_08]: I have a, I really hate that one too. [SPEAKER_08]: And we've talked about fashion effect, and why didn't Bioware give us more outfits. [SPEAKER_08]: Well, we would have loved that. [SPEAKER_08]: And so now we go over to Asterbo Studios to hear your acts that you have to grind with this series.

[SPEAKER_08]: What do you think if not hate what do you least like about the series and which game does it come from and how much do you dislike it? [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so I'm going to start by saying that this is less of a gain thing and more of a universe thing. [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to kind of shake this thing down to its foundations and to say it's not really a hate as much as it is a negative observation.

[SPEAKER_05]: Being that I'm, you know, an astronomer space in joy or I do, you know, [SPEAKER_05]: study physics on the side a little bit here and there. [SPEAKER_05]: I have a bone to pick with the relay system, the mass relays themselves. [SPEAKER_05]: And that is that fundamentally their structure based on their age and where they are, they should not exist.

[SPEAKER_05]: And that is beyond just sci-fi, that's beyond world building. [SPEAKER_05]: That's actual physical fundamental forces that are at play, that mean they should not be where they are, or you can function in the way that they do. [SPEAKER_08]: Walk us through that step by step. [SPEAKER_08]: We'll go first.

[SPEAKER_08]: Why shouldn't they be where they are? [SPEAKER_05]: So when we look at the way that the galaxy is structured and this is talking about real, you know, real galactic physics as opposed to the world building that's been done, we don't see a static object. [SPEAKER_05]: Right. [SPEAKER_05]: So our galaxy is always changing.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's always evolving stars move relative to one another. [SPEAKER_05]: The fundamental structure changes on a very long time scale, but a time scale that does happen nonetheless. [SPEAKER_05]: You know, like, I mean, even our son wouldn't have existed a few billion years ago, our galactic neighborhood, even going back just as, you know, a billion or so years would have been completely different.

[SPEAKER_05]: So what we see with these, the relays that are in these clusters of surrounded by other stars that are all surrounded by other planets that are all kind of packed tightly together to where you can travel from one to another. [SPEAKER_05]: you know, if we're talking about time scales in the order of millions are possibly even a billion or more years, the likelihood that these clusters would still be together following the relays construction is very, very slim.

[SPEAKER_08]: that's a great point. [SPEAKER_08]: So correct me if I'm wrong, I'm going to try and translate this for some people who are not so astronomically inclined. [SPEAKER_08]: But basically what I hear you're saying is that the relays and their current positioning doesn't account for the natural changes that would happen in our galaxy over an extended amount of time.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, that is exactly correct. [SPEAKER_05]: Stars don't stay together all the time. [SPEAKER_05]: Sometimes they do. [SPEAKER_05]: Sometimes they do, but not always. [SPEAKER_05]: We see these groupings, change, stars are born and then they die. [SPEAKER_05]: And that sometimes that can happen over time spans in just the tens of millions of years, not necessarily billions even.

[SPEAKER_08]: Now, some people might be scratching their heads and wondering, well, why does the positioning even matter? [SPEAKER_08]: Like, should I care about that? [SPEAKER_08]: And lore wise, the positioning does matter a lot because the reapers chose the position of the Mass Effect relays, specifically so that they could influence the evolution of different species along a predictable pattern every time.

[SPEAKER_08]: So if the relays were not something akin to geosynchronous orbit, but for the galaxy, [SPEAKER_08]: then they would be stationary where the galaxy is moving and they would be perhaps subject to things like supernovas which we already know that the gas that the mass relays are not impenetrable, we destroy one with an asteroid.

[SPEAKER_08]: So we destroy one with Cosmicly speaking very little force, right? [SPEAKER_08]: And so there should be far fewer Relays is what you're saying and that they should be Completely out of whack and perhaps in backwaters as opposed to homes of sentient life [SPEAKER_05]: Right. [SPEAKER_05]: Not necessarily fewer, because I mean, yeah, we see that these realizing are destroyed by fairly small amounts of physical force, supernova explosions are actually quite rare in a given galaxy, milked UACs as seen about, I believe, two of them within the last couple thousand years.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's a pretty rare phenomenon. [SPEAKER_05]: But the fact that these stellar neighborhoods that they live in, we see these relays are parked around one system and there's three or four systems around them, these stars might still be alive, but the likelihood that they're going to be all grouped together still after this amount of time is fairly unlikely.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm going to throw into here that [SPEAKER_05]: the likelihood of having sentient life form in these systems around the realize is even lower because this is something that takes an incredible amount of time, so long that some stars are born, burn their entire lives, and then die long before sentient life would ever have a chance to evolve.

[SPEAKER_08]: Wow. [SPEAKER_08]: So, yeah. [SPEAKER_08]: So, this, if you're, you know, an astronomer, like Astrobo Studios here is maybe you've got some similar complaints. [SPEAKER_08]: Now, I also want to hear your complaints with the physics of how they work. [SPEAKER_08]: You said that you've got some bone to pick about how the mass relays work, not just their positioning and where they are and the changes that have happened to the galaxy, [SPEAKER_08]: As a refresher real quick before we get into this for our listeners, mass relays work by adjusting the mass of the object approaching it in this case, usually a spaceship, and lowering that mass to such a degree that it takes far less force to propel it at faster than light speeds, and it gets you across the galaxy in an instant.

[SPEAKER_08]: So, Astrobus studios, tell me about your issue, physics speaking with how relay's work. [SPEAKER_05]: OK, so I'm going to start with a quick disclaimer. [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not a physicist, not a professional physicist, not even a professional astronomer. [SPEAKER_05]: So there may very well be some people out there they're just like, that's not how it works at all.

[SPEAKER_05]: So just keep that in mind. [SPEAKER_05]: But I will try to explain this. [SPEAKER_05]: My, so the general definition of matter is that it is something that has mass. [SPEAKER_05]: And the universal speed limit is light. [SPEAKER_05]: There's no breaking it. [SPEAKER_05]: You might say, oh, sure and call radiation, whatever.

[SPEAKER_05]: I could go into a whole spill about it, but I won't. [SPEAKER_05]: So we are, we, I see no way in which based on the lower explanation that you can accelerate something that is still consisting of matter to a faster than light speed. [SPEAKER_05]: The, now the actual mass reduction. [SPEAKER_05]: idea does have some basis in fact, but that is that's related to quantum physics and Hawking radiation and black holes and things like that.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's not the topic I understand very well and it's purely theoretical. [SPEAKER_05]: But the idea that we could sling something across the galaxy at potentially tens of thousands of times faster than light, using some quantum mechanics, it doesn't really make much sense. [SPEAKER_08]: What about the different sci-fi approaches to, you know, traveling vast distances with wormholes?

[SPEAKER_08]: And the classic sci-fi explanation of someone holding up a sheet of paper and then folding it in half, right? [SPEAKER_08]: And poking a pencil through the hole and going, this is how we're gonna do it. [SPEAKER_08]: How do you feel about that approach instead? [SPEAKER_05]: Believe it or not, it actually has a lot more basis.

[SPEAKER_05]: In fact, then what we see in Mass Effect, it's not quite how it would work. [SPEAKER_05]: Based on our current understanding using Einstein's Relativity theories. [SPEAKER_05]: It would be more appropriate, which they're a move, a pocket of localized space through space at faster and light, faster than light, sorry, because of the relativity law, or you could potentially see a folding space method.

[SPEAKER_05]: used because that's what gravity does. [SPEAKER_05]: Gravity folds space time and that is through the relativity theories. [SPEAKER_05]: So we could theoretically see something like that, but given our current technology, it's highly unlikely. [SPEAKER_08]: So I want to ask you a question.

[SPEAKER_08]: Well, first of all, have you played Starfield? [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I have. [SPEAKER_08]: Okay. [SPEAKER_08]: Second of all, are you saying that the Grav Drive technology in Starfield is actually more scientifically sound with our current understanding than mass relay technology in Mass Effect?

[SPEAKER_05]: That is, yeah, that is, I mean, and like I said, I'm not an expert, but based on my understanding, yeah, that it's that is absolutely more feasible. [SPEAKER_08]: I think we just got the title of our YouTube video. [SPEAKER_08]: Here's why Starfield is a better sci-fi game than that's a fact.

[SPEAKER_08]: And I'll just do, I'll do one of these for the, for the thumbnail. [SPEAKER_08]: like that, you know, and like point like a needless red circle around something in the image. [SPEAKER_08]: Anyway, yeah, okay, so I want to open this up to both day and red robot day. [SPEAKER_08]: I'm going to hop over to you first because I think that you have a lot of particular thoughts about mass relay technology and the positioning of them and how they work because I know that you're also a prolific sci-fi and joyer.

[SPEAKER_06]: uh... astrobo studios bone-to-pick with both the positioning and the physics of these mass relays you know i never really thought about it because i already i always categorize that as something like you suspend to actually enjoy the game but he's like a hundred percent correct obviously over the hundreds of thousands of millions of years stuff that moved that's just a fact things move [SPEAKER_06]: And yeah, for the Starfield example, it is way harder, sci-fi, and massive activities.

[SPEAKER_06]: They will just know aliens, nothing like that, even though there's the whole Starborn stuff. [SPEAKER_06]: No, yeah, I can see why someone would have a bone to pick with it if they know what they're talking about, and like know the material. [SPEAKER_08]: So, you know, we've wanted to bring on a physicist, like a professional physicist onto the show for quite a while, to dissect some of their biggest problems.

[SPEAKER_08]: And I think I've already formulated some questions because of this conversation right now. [SPEAKER_08]: And that's an open call, actually, to all of our listeners. [SPEAKER_08]: If you listen to the show in your physicist, we want to talk to you. [SPEAKER_08]: And I know the microphone can be scary, but more literally just nerds talking about mass-fects.

[SPEAKER_08]: So there's literally no way where you can embarrass yourself and besides the fact that we also edit the show. [SPEAKER_08]: So if you say something that you'd like to, you know, backtrack. [SPEAKER_08]: Anyway, that's an open call. [SPEAKER_08]: Hit us up. [SPEAKER_08]: You got our contact info in the show notes, but Retrobot, what do you think of Astrobo's criticism of mass release?

[SPEAKER_07]: Like the reapers make a lot of assumptions about the universe, like how each cycle is going to be exactly the same. [SPEAKER_07]: So I feel like there should be a mission where you come across like a funk, mass effect driver, something or a mass relay. [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, then you find out, oh, it's using old technology, but the reapers keep building new ones so they can keep this travel going.

[SPEAKER_07]: Uh, it's a bother me if the whole, oh, you can just destroy one of an asteroid like that's all it takes. [SPEAKER_07]: Like the way they're built, it seems like, oh, I don't feel like you can really just draw them. [SPEAKER_07]: Then on the other hand, I just like to think back that they're kind of working off of the science that existed in the day.

[SPEAKER_07]: The science is always evolving. [SPEAKER_07]: Like if you go back and look at like Jurassic Park, like when it was first written, compared to how much we've learned about dinosaurs since then, it doesn't pretty wide gap. [SPEAKER_08]: So things are always changing but yeah right yeah dinosaurs likely feathered right at least many of them So the physics of Mass Effect doesn't just stop with the relays right [SPEAKER_08]: it also includes the weapons, which we had a whole series of episodes talking about.

[SPEAKER_08]: Astrobot studios, do you also have a problem then with how the weapons work? [SPEAKER_08]: Because they're just shearing slices off of a lead or metal block altering the mass and propelling them at extremely high speeds. [SPEAKER_08]: Now I'm not sure if the lore actually [SPEAKER_05]: So, if I recall, I believe it's, I'm recalling the earlier episodes from the show where you guys, you know, the aforementioned episodes about a weapon technology, I believe what you, what you read from the codex was that it was not FTL and that makes sense with physics speaking because if you were kind of propelled something even a paperclip size at FTL speeds, the destruction that it would cause is immense.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I mean, we don't need to get anywhere close to light speed for things to have carry just immense amounts of energy. [SPEAKER_05]: I think there's a little more basis there, because Leah said we actually do have some theories involving mass and energy conversion and, you know, space time folding and stuff like that that we could technically see the reduction of the mass of an object through [SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, speaking about energy, you know, the energy of these impacts, even things as small as chips of paint, you know, flakes of paint and stuff like that, even, you know, low worth orbit, moving fast enough, we can see just these monumental amounts of energy being released.

[SPEAKER_05]: purely because of the rate of speed, you know, the rate of, you know, the, the moment some of the areas. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, during the contact, you know, during the moment of contact, it's why space junk is such a big deal because, you know, a very, very small fragment of something can cause an immense amount of damage and enough to boil holes in the side to spaceships or destroy satellites.

[SPEAKER_05]: So the idea that you could weaponize that technology is not that far fetched. [SPEAKER_08]: Right on. [SPEAKER_08]: Right on. [SPEAKER_08]: All right. [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I'm going to open this up to Genesis. [SPEAKER_08]: Genesis. [SPEAKER_08]: How do you feel about, you know, the positioning the physics, the glaring pot, plot holes or pot holes, if you prefer, of mass relay technology.

[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I had thought about the positioning of the relays when playing through the games because it was like, how are they always, how are they always still, how is the citadel always where it's at and till it was forcibly moved away and moved back to earth. [SPEAKER_04]: because we know that things in space are never stationary.

[SPEAKER_04]: So that always did kind of bother me, but I had never really thought about the hand way we think that is creating a sling shot is gonna make you go faster. [SPEAKER_04]: And that's how the relays work. [SPEAKER_04]: So thank you for opening that up to me and now I can kind of dive into that and think about like how that would, how that actually translates.

[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, it did kind of bother me having stationary objects in space that never really made sense to me. [SPEAKER_08]: Right on. [SPEAKER_08]: Well, um, Genesis, I want to hear what you hate about Mass Effect. [SPEAKER_04]: Oh gosh, that's, I'm kind of in the same boat as day where I don't have big glaring things that stand out to me that I truly dislike.

[SPEAKER_04]: It really is once you get down to the nitpicking, nitty, gritty little detail. [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, how about Jake improvements? [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, the Jacob romance is one of the bigger problems, but it's not the fact that it's the Jacob romance. [SPEAKER_04]: It's the femship who romances Jacob.

[SPEAKER_04]: That is the problem. [SPEAKER_04]: And all of the harmful stereotypes that they put on the black man in Mass Effect 2. [SPEAKER_04]: And I just don't like the way that they treated Jacob. [SPEAKER_04]: I think he seems to be like a great lover and would actually romance him if it wasn't treated so horribly.

[SPEAKER_04]: My other nitpicking thing is related to the Jacob Loyalty mission because from strictly a gameplay standpoint, it does not make sense. [SPEAKER_04]: It is one of my least favorite plot holes I absolutely despise it. [SPEAKER_04]: How do they have modern thermal clips, you know? [SPEAKER_04]: How are they, how are they working off of that?

[SPEAKER_04]: Where did it, did a plate, did a ship fly ahead overhead and drop gear that shepherd can use? [SPEAKER_04]: How do they have access to shepherd level weaponry? [SPEAKER_04]: I don't understand that. [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, and then I don't like the fact that a femme ship cannot remain single in the Citadel DLC.

[SPEAKER_04]: She is forced to have a romantic encounter by the end of the game. [SPEAKER_04]: And that really sucks. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, Eki. [SPEAKER_08]: Um, you know, on that note, I have a bone to pick with the Samara romance. [SPEAKER_08]: You know, if you're a brochep, no means no, man.

[SPEAKER_08]: Like, you know what I'm saying? [SPEAKER_08]: I, I, I like try to venture into that realm and Mass Effect to hit on Samara. [SPEAKER_08]: She quickly shut it down. [SPEAKER_08]: I'm like, oh, okay, well then, not interested. [SPEAKER_08]: Got it. [SPEAKER_08]: You know, and she doesn't say it in a mean way at all.

[SPEAKER_08]: Like, it's just like, you know, a matter of fact, you know, not my cup of tea, not interested. [SPEAKER_08]: And she's also like a monk character. [SPEAKER_08]: Right? [SPEAKER_08]: So why would I push it? [SPEAKER_08]: Why would I try to get someone to violate a code that is so sacred to them?

[SPEAKER_08]: You know, I mean, it just seems so inherently selfish and I don't know. [SPEAKER_08]: For me, it's just really sleazy to kind of keep pushing it. [SPEAKER_08]: And then eventually, I think in the Citadel DLC, you get a kiss from her, right? [SPEAKER_08]: If you keep pushing it for me, that was just kind of like, [SPEAKER_08]: Hmm, you know, I get it.

[SPEAKER_08]: It was fanservice DLC, right? [SPEAKER_08]: That's what it was. [SPEAKER_08]: And there's a contingency of fans who won a romance tomorrow. [SPEAKER_08]: And it's a video game, it's a fantasy. [SPEAKER_08]: It's an argument to me, but we should be able to romance whoever. [SPEAKER_08]: But I also disagree with that philosophy.

[SPEAKER_08]: You know, I, Genesis, you and I have had long conversations about, you know, fixed sexuality and characters versus player sexual characters where all of the characters are available to romance and the world is your oyster or perhaps clam. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, basically I just I fall into the the former group of characters should have fixed sexuality because they have a fixed character [SPEAKER_04]: I am with you on that one.

[SPEAKER_04]: I have always liked games that have defined sexualities rather than player sexual. [SPEAKER_04]: In some games it fits in most games it doesn't. [SPEAKER_04]: And I do agree that somebody who is pushing for that Samara romance that really just wants to kind of break the just-to-car code with her just is really in that same level of a [SPEAKER_04]: The femme chef who pushes James Vega too far, that to me is the absolute worst option.

[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_08]: That's a very big abuse of power. [SPEAKER_08]: Okay. [SPEAKER_08]: So I mentioned the Samara one, but I don't want anyone to get confused. [SPEAKER_08]: That's not like my biggest gripe with the game. [SPEAKER_08]: And I think I would probably have to sit and think pretty hard about what is my biggest gripe with the game.

[SPEAKER_08]: But the first thing that came to mind when we were talking about this for me was the star [SPEAKER_08]: Like just the existence of the star child and the the fact that this thing was like [SPEAKER_08]: a curveball like at a left field at the 11th hour. [SPEAKER_08]: And we don't really get to drill down to understand too much because there's no time at the end of the game.

[SPEAKER_08]: And there's no real [SPEAKER_08]: The narrative that the star child gives us, I mean, you can write, you can gently push back, but you can't really push back and have a philosophical argument. [SPEAKER_08]: with the star child. [SPEAKER_08]: And I always kind of felt like if your paragon or renegade score was high enough, or if you made a select number of decisions, Shepard should be smart enough to poke holes into what the star child was saying, like I understand, Shepard just got blasted by a fucking reaper beam.

[SPEAKER_08]: So they might not be on their bed there, you know, their top of mind. [SPEAKER_08]: But [SPEAKER_08]: It's still, you know, the whole we're going to save you by killing you thing is, you can get to such extended arguments about that, but the fact that we had such a little room to push back on the narrative that was being like forcibly fed into us in a game that was all about pushing back on narratives that different characters were giving you.

[SPEAKER_08]: right? [SPEAKER_08]: It was all about like trying to get different groups working together. [SPEAKER_08]: Like, we're not just going to take the narrative that this layering Dallas trash is giving us, right? [SPEAKER_08]: You can push back on that. [SPEAKER_08]: We're not going to just take the narrative that, uh, that Gadotog oofing is giving us.

[SPEAKER_08]: Right? [SPEAKER_08]: We're not just going to give that take the narrative that the elusive man is giving us at the end of Mass Effect 2 and I think that that's the best apples to apples comparison of the end of Mass Effect 2 and the end of Mass Effect 3. [SPEAKER_08]: The end of Mass Effect 2, when a parry on Shepherd tells the elusive man, I won't let fear compromise who I am.

[SPEAKER_08]: And it's this defiant, you know, emblematic moment of how much of a hero Shepherd can be. [SPEAKER_08]: And we get none of that with the star child. [SPEAKER_08]: And that I think is my biggest gripe with it. [SPEAKER_08]: And you know, everything else in the ending, the same. [SPEAKER_08]: Everything else in the ending, the same.

[SPEAKER_08]: You know, you get the three colors of blah, blah. [SPEAKER_08]: I would have been better with it and gotten along better with it. [SPEAKER_08]: If this, if we had a little bit of room to argue with the star child. [SPEAKER_08]: And I see you pulling out a notebook over their genesis. [SPEAKER_08]: Now I'm very curious about what's going on.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I was just going to start writing down the craziest thought that I had while you were talking about how to make the ending better and I was thinking, okay, we've got the three options and they all kind of require a human sacrifice in order to do that because to hit control, [SPEAKER_04]: because they are then going to be the one that is controlling the wrappers.

[SPEAKER_04]: For synthesis, they just need human DNA in order to synthesize to an organic in order to destroy, you need somebody to sacrifice and give their DNA, their life force, their energy in order to make it happen. [SPEAKER_04]: My renegade asks once to go pick up Timmy Boy's body and shove him into one of those things instead.

[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, get in. [SPEAKER_08]: Get in fucker this. [SPEAKER_08]: This is what you wanted. [SPEAKER_04]: Right. [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it wouldn't work with control because the elusive man is dead and we don't want to give him the control option. [SPEAKER_04]: But why can't I eat Timmy's dead body into the destroy sphere?

[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, right. [SPEAKER_08]: And, you know, now that you think about that, why can't I bring Legion aboard, right, or bring anyone with me? [SPEAKER_08]: If I could have Legion talked to the star child, I feel like that would be, like Legion is the living proof that he was wrong.

[SPEAKER_08]: as is Javik to a certain extent. [SPEAKER_08]: But that's a argument for another day. [SPEAKER_08]: I always thought it would be super cool if Javik was the catalyst. [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that would be that. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that the last living protein would get his revenge, you know. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_08]: So, and then we'd have, we'd have Shepherd and we'd have everyone alive. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, except for the angry little protein guy. [SPEAKER_08]: Especially since he basically tells you he's going to kill himself anyway. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, if you give him his memory, it's back he wants to go jump off a bridge.

[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, and to me honest, like that, that actually like, while that's sad, that fits with his character and maybe we'll talk about that when we talk more about Javik, but I always felt like he was racked by grief. [SPEAKER_08]: and having some level of peace is actually a good thing for him and he's not going to have that as long as he's alive.

[SPEAKER_08]: But anyway, I think that takes us to the end of the show. [SPEAKER_08]: So I can't wait to talk more about all of these different topics and different episodes that we will have coming up and we're already 250 episodes in and I think we just came up with like 10 different episodes [SPEAKER_08]: uh so let's go around the horn and uh I want to hear what games you guys are playing right now and uh how people can get a holy view of course and what else you got going on.

[SPEAKER_08]: Ask for most videos. [SPEAKER_08]: What games are you playing right now? [SPEAKER_05]: Um, honestly, been playing some, uh, been playing some Kerblespace program lately, got back into it with, uh, Artemis to launch in a couple, uh, a couple of weeks ago or months ago, I guess at this point now, uh, but it would plan some of that been playing some, uh, been playing some puck, which is a great little hockey game on, uh, [SPEAKER_05]: on steam, it's free, go check it out.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's hard, but it's a lot of fun. [SPEAKER_05]: Other than that, it's kind of been hanging out. [SPEAKER_05]: If you want to get a hold of me, I'm floating around in the discord somewhere, better to probably just tag me. [SPEAKER_05]: If you're trying to get a hold of me that way, but yeah, I'm not really getting up to a whole much a whole lot.

[SPEAKER_05]: So. [SPEAKER_08]: right on Kerbal Space program looks hilarious, never played it, but it looks so funny. [SPEAKER_08]: Retrobot, any games that you're playing at the moment that you feel like mentioning and how can people get ahold of you? [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I've just been a replaying shadows overloving, just fun game, very comedic, then just playing the remake of Paper Mario in the Fasernier doors, finally getting around to that.

[SPEAKER_07]: I'm enjoying it. [SPEAKER_07]: want to get a hold of me. [SPEAKER_07]: I'm red for about on the discord. [SPEAKER_07]: Same thing just tag me. [SPEAKER_07]: If you want to look at the 14 page document that I made when I was very drunk, I'm playing about basically all of medical. [SPEAKER_07]: It's also on the discord.

[SPEAKER_08]: You should send that to buy aware. [SPEAKER_08]: See if you get a response. [SPEAKER_07]: I should have. [SPEAKER_07]: I'm probably just going to farm later, but I'm only going to restrain in order. [SPEAKER_08]: the season-desist. [SPEAKER_08]: All right, day. [SPEAKER_08]: What games are you playing at the moment and how can people get a hold of you?

[SPEAKER_08]: Anything else you want to shout out? [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I'm currently playing through like a direct and infinite wealth. [SPEAKER_06]: I've been really emotional, really fun. [SPEAKER_06]: Well, the cluster is so far and I'm really excited for strange things that haven't come out January and [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, lots of the forward two with games.

[SPEAKER_06]: And you can reach me at a day zero or day everywhere. [SPEAKER_06]: Just about anything. [SPEAKER_08]: Then yeah, that's me done. [SPEAKER_08]: All right. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I am so psyched for fable. [SPEAKER_08]: Like everything I've seen about it so far. [SPEAKER_08]: I am like all in on that game.

[SPEAKER_08]: And I cannot remember the last time I've been this excited for game. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I just can't remember, it honestly probably hasn't happened for like 10 years. [SPEAKER_08]: So, Fable looks like it's gonna be so fun. [SPEAKER_08]: Um, on that note, I am like super deep into, uh, another medieval game, not a fantasy game, but a medieval game, kingdom come deliverance too.

[SPEAKER_08]: I can't believe I slept on this game for so long. [SPEAKER_08]: This game is incredible. [SPEAKER_08]: I love this game. [SPEAKER_08]: If you're into like ring fairs and medieval stuff and you're okay kind of bypassing and passing up some of the fantasy things go check it out it has a codex in it actually [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, so when you discover new things, you can read about the actual historical context of them, which I'm a huge nerd, and so I do want to read about the historical context of blacksmithing, and why millers were often considered the weirdos of society, and things like that.

[SPEAKER_08]: It has done a lot, actually, to correct some misperceptions and misconceptions I had of life in medieval time. [SPEAKER_08]: But outside of that, it's also just a really funny, well written game. [SPEAKER_08]: And the combat super fun, too. [SPEAKER_05]: So, can I ask when we're, when we're going to get a kingdom come to Liefer and Slurcast from you there?

[SPEAKER_08]: Oh man, I don't know, that one, I feel like maybe once it come out with another game, maybe when there's a third one, I'll feel like there's enough Lord to keep the show going, otherwise it'd be a very limited run, I think, because you'd also have to parse between what exactly is just history, but [SPEAKER_08]: and what is purely unique to kingdom come deliverance and in Henry's story.

[SPEAKER_08]: But yeah, I love that game so much. [SPEAKER_08]: I'm like 26 hours in and I don't see myself stopping anytime soon. [SPEAKER_08]: But people can get a hold of me at in 7th legend any social media that I have. [SPEAKER_08]: It is that housekeeping stuff. [SPEAKER_08]: Genesis and I are going to be changing the schedule of the forecast and necessity coming up very soon because I am starting my new job in a couple days.

[SPEAKER_08]: So thank God, the drought is over. [SPEAKER_08]: It is over and I cannot wait to get back to work. [SPEAKER_08]: So with that. [SPEAKER_08]: definitely going to need to record on a different day. [SPEAKER_08]: I think we talked about Sundays, Sunday evenings, being when we record our live show before.

[SPEAKER_08]: She's shaking her head and no, but I'm fairly certain we talked about that. [SPEAKER_08]: Anyway, we'll offline about it. [SPEAKER_04]: We'll figure it out. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I figured out it's gonna have to change and we'll talk to with our patrons about when they'd like to do the patrons Chances well, so Until next time specters, we got more garris to talk about next week So strap in and prepare your mandibles because we're talking about our Samurai chicken lover boy, then all right guys That's all take care.

[SPEAKER_08]: We should go [SPEAKER_08]: Thanks for listening to the Mass Effect War Test. [SPEAKER_08]: Reach out to us on Blue Sky, Twitter, Discord, Patreon, or email us at Mass EffectLoreCast at gmail.com. [SPEAKER_04]: Join us next week for more lore, same space, same time. [SPEAKER_04]: We'll check out our live streams at twitch.tv slash Mass Effect WarCast.

251: What We HATE About Mass Effect

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